Why Your Child’s Anxiety Might Be Coming From You | Sissy Goff, MEd, LPC-MHSP & David Thomas, LMSW

and it has you seriously concerned. We are seeing a lot of kids who are unwilling to walk into

a school building, afraid to get their driver's license. The things that we looked forward to and felt like we're a part of life growing up that you're hesitant and feel incapable. Right a bike. He has no not a ride bikes. No. There's a teenager who's telling their parents, "I don't think I'm ready to get my driver's license. Do you think that a parent should push them to anyway?" We're not waiting until we feel ready or prepared. We're going to walk forward

with courage and things that feel overwhelmed with scary. Nervous is normal. And I don't think we're saying that enough to kids. You're seven-year-old as anxious. Overwhelmed. Melting down over things that didn't

use to be a big deal. Your teenager is telling you they're not interested in driving.

“And your 20-year-old has no desire to leave the house. What is happening? Are we crazy?”

Or did kids use to be more capable? Sissy Gough and David Thomas have spent over 30 years sitting across from kids and families in crisis as child counselors. And they're sounding the alarm. We are raising kids who feel more supported than ever. But also less capable than ever. And they're new book capable how to teach your kids strength skills and strategies to build resilience. They are used something that's going to make a lot of parents uncomfortable.

Your job is not to make your kid happy. It is to make them strong enough to handle life. This episode is all about raising, not just confident, but capable kids. Watch today's episode on the real LX Clark YouTube channel or culture pop the carry on Spotify. And please pause, leave a five-star review before we get started. Keep the discussion going afterwards in the Keith Served of Space Book Group.

“Please welcome Nashville Child Psychologist, Sissy Gough, and David Thomas to culture a pop the carry.”

You guys are child counselors. And you're working primarily with kids 8 to 18 years old. And so the types of families that are bringing their kids to you, what is it that they're experiencing with their children? They kind of need help with. Really everything we all need help with. Kids who are struggling socially, kids who are anxious, kids who are depressed, kids with ADHD, kids who's parents are getting divorced, have lost someone

in their family. We try to do counseling really differently. We're in a little yellow house with a white pick-up fence and we have popcorn popping for afternoon snacks for the kids. And a little boy was walking out of day starting, he looked at his mom and he said, Mom, I don't go to day star for counseling. I just go there to talk about my problems. It feels like such a privilege to get to come alongside kids and families in that way. That's so special. And how long have you

guys been working together? A long time. 30 years. We don't love saying that number out loud because it dates us. But we started when we were 6 and 7. We got going really early in the field. What was the situation or story that drove you into this line of work? We're a lot older than you. And when we were growing up, no one was talking about counseling. You didn't hear about it anywhere. Except when we were growing up, our parents for whatever reason, there were all kinds of things

you couldn't watch can do. But we could watch soap operas. And so I grew up on days of our lives and there was a child psychologist on days of our lives. First person in the mental health space

“had ever heard of. And I remember thinking, that sounds like a really cool job. So Marlena,”

from days of our lives is how I got my inspiration. And then just felt like the doors kept opening and God kept calling me into the next space, graduate school, all those things. And

and didn't interview for a day star and thought, I never knew you could do something like this.

And so 32 years later, doing the same thing. I went to college. Was an advertising major. But took psychology electives all throughout. Loved it. Just the study of human behavior. Why we do it. We do never thinking about this a field. But every summer of my college years, I worked at a camp for kids. And I loved it. And my colleagues would come and get me with kids who were super homesick. Kids whose parents had newly divorced. And it just felt intuitive to walk with

kids who were in really hard places. And so the intersection of all these psychology courses and that work led me to a place of thinking, I want to move into this field. This my life's work. And so great flooded. You guys are saying that as child counselors, you are seeing things in kids that you have not seen at all in 30 years. And it has you seriously concerned. What has changed that is really freaking you out? We are seeing a lot of kids who feel afraid.

Beyond even anxiety, just in general day to day life, who are unwilling to try new things, who are often unwilling to walk into a school building, who are afraid to get their driver's license.

They are hesitant and feel incapable. And so we have felt so strongly that. And even as

therapists, there's so much we're doing to help kids on the back end after they're already struggling. But we feel like it's not to help them on the front end and do something holistically early on to build more resilience in kids where they feel ready to handle all of the challenges we know

“life inevitably brings. And if that's what's going on with kids, what we would say is happening”

with parents is more than any other time. And our work parents aren't trusting their intuition. Like this intuitive knowing of "I know this kid, I know what they need, I know how to respond." And we could spend all day talking about the animal of technology. But we have seen that interfere in the lives of kids in unimaginable ways, but also in the lives of parents. Talk about the story of the mom you had a conversation with recently.

Yes, just in the last month I set with a mom of a 14 year old girl and they were at a

family gathering and she said my daughter started being super disrespectful and I was so embarrassed and didn't know what to do and I went in the bathroom humiliated and was crying. And so I got on my favorite peering app and asked the chatbot, "What do you do with a disrespectful 14 year old?" Which is so concerning to me because the more we trust these external sources as David said the less we trust ourselves. So parents are going to AI to help them parent their kids. Yes.

Technology in general. Why do parents not feel equipped to parent? We think on the benefits of technology. We have access to more information than any other time in history and that can be both a great thing and I think a really harmful thing and the arena of parenting because parents are inundated with ideas and information and opinions and all the different ways of approaching their kids to where I think it invites them not to trust

their intuition and to assume the answer of what my kids are needing is not here but it's out there somewhere and I just need to be searching and finding that. There's this phenomenon of teenagers that are saying I don't need to get my driver's license yet. I don't really have an interest in that and parents are just like, "Okay, you don't have an interest in that." One, why is that happening? I don't understand kids saying like, "Well, I just don't feel ready or I don't feel

“equipped to get my license," but that's what driver's ed was for. I didn't know either.”

I didn't know. I didn't know. I was going to driver's ed and I'm learning and then I'm like, "Okay, cool, I can do this and I'm practicing driving with other kids my age. Why are kids not even interested in signing up for driver's ed?" And do you think it's a mistake for parents to say, "It's okay, yeah, you can just delay it or you don't need to get your license if you don't want to." What we hear really weekly in our office daily probably is parents who say, "I just don't

know when to push. I don't know how much to push." And so many parents today grew up with parents who weren't really connected emotionally. We also were seeing more thoughtful and intentional parents than we've ever seen. And they're trying to correct what wasn't offered to them and they're overcorrecting in that. And so there's the sense of, "I'm going to scar them. I'm going to be the reason they're in counseling. It's a fearfulness." And so rather than

challenging with a lot of empathy and kindness and support, kind of that scaffolding,

“we hope is there that then falls away, they're just saying, "Okay, okay, we're not going to push. We're”

not going to push." Because they're afraid they're going to do more harm than good for their kids. Instead of realizing that support and challenge can happen at the same time. The stats around anxiety are through the roof. For kids and adolescents, as we all know.

And with girls in particular, Sissy is written some incredible content around anxiety and

girls and adolescent women. And she has this working definition that anxiety is an overestimation of the situation and an underestimation of myself. And that definition, even beyond anxiety feels like it's defining kids and adolescents in the world. And this day in time, it's like everything out there feels too big and scary. Getting my driver's license feels too overwhelming. Being with other kids feels awkward, cringey. I don't know what

to say. More foolish things. That either we have everything. And so if all the things in the world feel too big and I feel too small, you can see where that would just continue to get in the way. They're saying it's cringey to be in driver's ed and writing around with other kids. They're saying it's cringey to be with other kids too. I'm having more girls who are saying, why would I ever text someone? I don't know that's so awkward and embarrassing. There's just this anxiousness

about reaching out making new connections. Like, where is this coming from? Like, how does this develop? Because, you know, what historically you think of as adolescent years is kids that are just dying to, yes, like they're just trying to spread their wings out of the house, get away from their parents. And now you have this phenomenon right of kids, it's like they're clinging to their parents. So something has shifted and created that. So if we go back to these kids being raised,

what were their parents doing differently, that previous generations of parents were not doing, that you guys think is causing this? One that is really significant is COVID. So many of these kids

get to go on the slide when they wanted to. They didn't learn how to have conversations that

were awkward with people. They didn't know as well. They just weren't having to take age appropriate risks. Because we were all home. As adults, we felt like we were out of our comfort zone. But kids really weren't, they were just at home. And so they didn't have that practice. You know, all of these things are like building muscles. And they didn't have the social practice in moving towards milestones that are really huge for their development. We have a whole chapter

around the differences in parenting in the stay in time. And we talk about swings and extremes.

“And I think a lot of parents grew up in homes where they didn't feel heard. They didn't feel”

seen. They didn't feel like their parents really noticed and observed when they were struggling. There was a lot of just kind of mentality. If you're fine, keep going and swung to the opposite direction. We talk about how every correction is often in over correction. And so the over correction would be, I want to hear everything you're saying all the time and not pushing you out in the world. So too much of this, you're fine and not paying attention. It's not helpful. Too much of not

pushing you out in the world. It's not helpful. And that healthy middle ground of is to see talked about support and challenge of where we want to move kids out into the world. As I said, day star, where we work, is the sweetest little comforting counseling place. And so

we know if kids come for the first time. They're just going to feel at ease. And the little girl

who was eight, who was coming for anxiety, which is the average age of onset. So we're seeing it start earlier and earlier. I knew that was why she was coming. And I came downstairs to greet her for her first appointment. And a smile that across the way. I have this really big smile. She smiled away back at me and I walked different and said, hey, I'm busy. I'm so excited that your day star, I'm going to take you on a tour of the day star house. And then I'm going to take you up to my

office to meet my little dog named Lucy, who you're going to love. And this precious little girl Alex popped up out of her chair to follow me and her mom grabbed her arm and stopped her and said,

“do you feel comfortable with that? Right. And you're like, all right, I think our session's over.”

You're not the problem. Seriously, I took the daughter on the tour of the house. Her mom followed us the whole time. And then I brought the little girl in my office and shut the door and her mom was in the chair right across from my office. And then I sent the girl out brought the mom in after our time and said as any therapist would say, tell me about your family history and you can guess the mom said, well, I had anxiety when I was growing up and no one ever understood what was going

on with me. And so I'm determined to understand her. And so we talk a lot about understanding, help and hope that we don't just stop with understanding. It's support and challenge like we've been talking about. We need to set kids up to intentionally struggle. Yes. A little bit. Yes. Right. So what does that look like in practice? Well, I think it starts with the acknowledgement that allowing the kids we love to struggle is one of the greatest task of parenting,

like it's not intuitive and hardest. No, absolutely. No one wants to do it. I don't enjoy watching

“my kids go through hard things and yet remembering if we think back to all of our own stories”

that we grew the most in the hard seasons and this same will be true for the kids we love. We have a definition in the book that is capable kids have practice coping and learned competence for life's challenges. In all seasons, we want to invite parents to be thinking about where is an arena or a context where your kids get to practice coping. And that means they've got to struggle through something hard. Where are they building competence? Where are they

risking in a healthy way? Joining a club where they don't know anyone, inviting a friend over when it feels awkward, going to get your driver's license, even though you don't feel prepared, is there a context where those things can happen so that when they get to the bigger things like applying to college, interviewing for internships, they've had practice all along the way with this supportive scaffolding. Out of all these kids that you guys are seeing

that are claiming that they're struggling with severe anxiety and all these different issues or feeling like they can't grow up basically. What percentage of them would you say have a smart

phone? It would depend on their ages. I mean, certainly the adolescence, 98 percent of them do

the younger kids a lot don't. And we are so grateful for folks like you who are talking so much about technology and how we can delay all of that with kids because we are seeing parents who are more thoughtful than we have ever seen and more parents who are getting landlines, doing things like that, which even thinking about landlines, the awkwardness of answering the phone and saying, "Hello, golf's residents, this is Sissy speaking and I don't know who's on the other end. That's

so good for kids." Do you ask parents that? What kinds of technology did your kid have access to in the home? We have a lot of conversations about technology in our offices, understandably. I have a friend. She goes on a first date with a guy and somehow they get on the topic of toothpaste. And he goes, "Yeah, I use this red cinnamon toothpaste with sparkles and she's like, "Wait, doesn't that have red 40?" And he goes, "Well, yeah, but I found a case in an abandoned warehouse

makes my brain feel buzzing." And she's like, "That seems dangerous. What if it's expired?"

“And he just looks at her and he goes, "I like danger." And obviously, obviously, she said,”

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step in, but they almost always do. One of the things we talk about is resilience over rescue

and that we're seeing more appearance rescue than ever before and in light of anxiety. And so that might be one of the times we see it the most kids you're anxious because kids who are anxious can be really manipulative. I mean, they are making all kinds of noise about how they can't do whatever it is that's in front of them. And so, of course, a parent sees their child in distress and they don't want their child to be in distress. But a scape in avoidance are the two most common

parenting strategies in light of anxiety. Parents will say, okay, we don't have to do whatever it is. But back to David, what the definition he talked about of anxiety is an overestimation of the problem and underestimation of himself. When we provide them with the scape, when we rescue them,

we're saying, you're right, you can't do it. It's too hard. Never intentionally saying that,

but that's the message that child gets when we rescue them. We love to say to parents,

“what are two things you're doing for your kids right now that they can do for themselves?”

And what are two things you're doing for your kids that they can almost do for themselves? Even if it's building their water bottle, packing their backpack, letting them get their driver's license, encouraging them to get their driver's license with some good support and challenge. What are things you can do right now? So if there's a teenager who's telling their parents, I don't think I'm ready to get my driver's license, do you think that a

parent should push them to anyway or require them to? Yeah. And I think do it with support and chance. You know what, buddy? My guess is no one feels ready who walks in the DMV. And I remember not feeling ready. And we're not waiting until we feel ready or prepared or not overwhelmed or worried about whatever this situation might be. But we're going to walk forward with courage and things that feel overwhelming and scary. We do a lot of parenting seminars. And I would say eight years

ago, probably we started talking about kids who weren't getting their driver's license. And parents who would say, well, my child's not emotionally mature enough yet to drive a car, which think back to 16. I mean, you might have been more emotionally mature than I was,

“but I think most of us weren't there. And it's the milestones that help us move forward.”

So it's so important for them to do those things. Do you think these kids have a lack of confidence or complete opposite? I think it's a little bit of both. Yes. Because we talk about in the

trying hard things over an extended period of time. And I think to your great question,

“there's not as much practice in that space for kids, which is why I think they're lacking in true”

confidence. And then I think it's addressed up confidence. I see this a lot with boys who will brag away about things that they're mediocre at. I had a dad say to me recently, he's talking about his 10 year old son. He's like, to listen to him right now, like you would swear, he's on this way, the NFL. And he won't even sign up for flag football. So it's this lack of true confidence because he's unwilling to build the confidence that I think would give way to that.

And I would add for the benefit of kids, there's more pressure around everything there's ever been. I mean, to ask a girl to homecoming, to ask a girl to prom, you know, now they caught prom puzzle. I mean, there is more perfectionism and technology is certainly contributing to that with girls in particular than I have ever seen. And so I do think there's a part of,

I can't do it like everyone looks, all the influencers I'm following. I'm never going to look like

that. So wow, would I even try? I was going to say it sounds more like I don't want to do that.

“I don't want to go to prom just because I think it's not going to look Instagram perfect.”

There is certainly a piece of that. How do you know if you have a capable kid? I think the majority of parents who were listening was, oh, I have a capable kid. But could you give like a little quiz or some questions to ask so they can truly see if they're raising a capable kid or not? A great barometer would be how often does your child say I can. I'll try. I will versus I won't. I don't. I don't know how. I had a girl who it's actually our opening statement of the book.

I girl that I was counseling who said she was so stuck and I'm not a great therapist of

someone to stuck because I really want kids to move and I kept kind of trying to gently push and

gently push and gently push and she figured out what I was doing and eventually she said to me, I don't want to grow. I just want to be understood. That to me is a child who probably is capable. I think all kids are capable. They're just not necessarily ready or they feel like whatever is going on with them is too big. They're feelings they're in charge of them rather than them being in

“charge of their feelings. I would absolutely agree with you that I think all kids are capable.”

I think it is just the space for kids to discover their capability, which comes in the harder moments again. And the experience for parents who are wanting to stand in the way with the relief or the rescue that gives way to that space that doesn't feel intuitive. I talk a lot with parents about default settings. I think we all have default settings. I have a computer that every time I turn on it's too dim. I've got to change that default settings so that I can see the screen

a little bit better on defining my age. I think we as parents can have default settings that can get in the way of our kids. Sometimes our fear is so great that it stands in the way of kids building the courage. I have an author who's work. I love that says, you know, courage is just fear that said it's prayer. It's like that's a great thing to be saying to kids with regularity. So often I think kids are assuming I'll arrive there when I get it perfect. When I do it right every time when

I don't experience any fear in the process. And that's just not going to happen. We all still do. Yes. And kids learn that they're capable back experience. It's not that they feel confident and then step into whatever is going to create the capability. It's that they just go ahead and step in and then the confidence comes. So with that teenage girl that said, I don't want to grow, what should be the correct parental response to something like that? We talk so much about the magic

formula with kids of empathy and questions. Honey, I understand that you feel afraid and you are so capable of doing hard things or I believe in you so much. You are so smart and I can't wait to watch how you figure this out. That we're acknowledging how they feel because again, that's where parents I think so often right now are stuck. Nobody understood how I felt. So we're acknowledging how they feel and then we're creating an opportunity for resourcefulness rather than being the

resources for them. So if a child is in their middle school teenage years and they're scared to go to the dance, the school dance. How should you respond to that? Are you dropping them off anyway? I think it is that back to support and challenge. I'm a huge advocate of boys. My work with that a lesson boy is that by the time you graduate, I want you to have gone to at least two homecoming dances and at least one prom. At least, I'd prefer you go to all because the practice,

I talk about driving and dating is having a lot of similarities that none of us know how to intuitively parallel park a car. We've got to practice a lot of that. No adolescent boy and twoatively knows how to sit across the table at dinner and have conversation with someone of the opposite sex. You've got to practice that too and those are ideal context for doing that. I was even thinking when Sissy was talking about the landline example of how much training ground

happened just in having an answer to the phone as a teenage boy and my mom's friends being on the

all this awkward conversation. And we have our own individual phone numbers. So you're not answering the phone for your mother anymore, right in talking to her friends or whatever. Like the child

is never interacting. The other thing is, and this is just popping into my head as I'm talking,

is we don't host dinner parties anymore. Families are not hosting dinner parties. And so to me, I'm like, that's a great opportunity as well. There's going to be strangers that you don't know sitting at the table and then being trained on how to participate in conversation with others, listen and then ask questions based on what you're here. Yes, rather than sit on your screen. Yes, because parents are also sitting on their screens and they're not inviting people over or going out.

Isn't that weird? Yes. And the lack of opportunity for skill development. And we talked so much of parents, but these are learned in practice skills. They aren't intuitive for kids. They don't know how to do this anymore, then they know how to ride a bike or swim in the deep end of the pool. Like it has to be taught and it has to be practiced. And as parents are as thoughtful and intentional.

“And I think trying to do something different, I met with a mom and daughter last fall and”

coming was coming up, all the stress this girl had been kind of on the outs with the group of

friends and had felt really left out a lot. And she finally, you know, popular group was paying

more attention to her and she was so thrilled. And she decided she wanted to be the house where everyone came over to get ready and then take pictures. And there were a couple of girls who were on the outs. And she said to me in counseling, my mom wants me to invite them. And I don't want to do it. That's so awkward. That's their favorite word. That's so awkward. Why would I ever do that? And she said, but I think my mom wants us to all meet together. And I said, okay, and her mom

came up and she was so mad when her mom walked in the room and tears immediately. And her mom said, tell me what you're feeling. And she said, I just don't know why you would make me do this. It's so weird. I feel so awkward. And I just, I thought it was your job to make me happy. And this really was mom said, "Honey, my job is not to make you happy." My job is to help you grow and be a kind,

“thoughtful, capable person. And so we're going to have those girls over because I believe that you”

are a kind thoughtful, capable person. And you can do this. You can do our things. That's great. I know. It was so kind. It was that support and challenge. Would you say that the majority of parents today are in a panic? Yes. What's causing that? Well, I talked to parents of a three-year-old in a new born just three weeks ago. And she said, my daughter won't sleep. Now that we've had a baby. And she, anytime we try to encourage her to, she cries and cries and cries and cries. And so we put her

in a room and she cries and cries and cries. And I don't know what to do because I'm so afraid that I'm going to really do damage to our relationship if she's in a room crying. And I think that's part of it. It's circling back to exactly what we talked about. There's so much noise. So many people are talking to parents about empathy, empathy, empathy all the time and attenement, which is understanding and helping feel with kids, what they're feeling and that there's not that piece of

helping them figure out how to work through their feelings. It's just the hearing them. And so this mom was so afraid it would damage their relationship for her daughter to cry in a room for a little

“bit before she fell asleep. And so I think that's such a piece of it. Again, I'm going to hurt them.”

I'm going to damage our relationship permanently. I don't want to be the bad guy. When in fact a lot of parenting is that you can be the bad guy with kindness and with empathy too. If a kid is mid meltdown in public screaming, rational, what should a parent do step by step? We would say put all the attention on the front side on regulation. What happens when any of us is dysregulated, just in this heightened emotional state is that our thinking brain goes offline and our emotional

brain is flying the plane. And the mistake we make is parents is doing a lot of talking,

instructing, correcting in those moments. And the reality is kids can't even make good

connections when they're thinking brain is offline. It's why honestly discipline isn't a good fit for that moment. Now discipline is going to make sense a little ways down the road, but not in that moment because discipline should primarily be about teaching. Like kids figuring something out what I want to do different next time. And if my thinking brain is not online, I can't make those connections in a great way. So regulate first, think second is a rule of thumb. We talk a whole lot

about and that is within that definition of practice coping that every one of us needs to be about that work because you know, think about how many viral videos are floating around of adults throwing a tantrum in an airport. Like that's becoming a trending thing. I read it on how to have an adult temper tantrum. Oh boy. We've not practiced coping enough. We've not figured out this regulate first things. Second equation in a way that we can then operate in the world and to your question

within the context of parenting so that we can also be regulated enough to figure out what's the most helpful thing I could do because if we don't we tend to match our kids intensity in those

over them and no one's winning in that equation. So RFK Junior recently came out and said something

that should probably concern all of us. He basically said electromagnetic radiation or EMFs

is a major health concern. Not like, you know, hey, drink more water. Like this is a real issue. And you're like, wait. So the thing that I've had pressed against my brain for the last decade, my phone is sending signals constantly and that might not be ideal. Cool. And here's the problem. We live on these devices, right? Me too, phones, AirPods, Wi-Fi, everything is wireless. And most people are just like, well, I guess I'll die with great screen time stats. But when you actually look

into it, there are thousands of studies showing EMFs impact biology. Things like cancer, hormone disruptions, sleep issues, all the fun things, right? And the biggest exposure is the thing

“closest to your head. So yeah, your AirPods. That's why I switched to tech wellness air tube headphones.”

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code Alex15 at branchbasics.com. That's 15% off your new branch basics premium starter kit at branchbasics.com with promo code Alex15. So we've talked about how so many kids are coming to you guys with anxiety issues. But also, I'm sure some parent are bringing their kids in because they have behavioral issues. I mean, these kids are acting out. They're total brats. They're not listening. They're getting in trouble at school all the time. Just out of curiosity, the parents who are

bringing children to you that are acting out in all these ways. Would you say that the majority of them are spanking or not spanking their kids? I would say, in today's world, I'm not talking

to as many parents who are spanking. Probably as I used when we first started this. Do parents

ask you guys questions like that? Like, should I should not? Like, are they even bringing up or it doesn't even really get brought up at all? It doesn't really get brought up much anymore. How

“does much? No. I think most parents are saying, what are tools? What do I do when the start?”

Other forms of discipline, consequences? Well, and discipline is this parents won't even use that word. We did a parenting seminar not long ago at a school locally. And we started talking about discipline. And these parents looked like we had just said a bad word. I mean, it was like they were so strict about that idea because again, I think so many parenting experts are saying it's all about a tournament. It's all about empathy. It's all about listening, not about how to

help kids work through the emotions or what to do when it gets really out of control. So in these kids that have severe behavioral issues, would you say that the parents are not even disciplining at all before they're bringing their kids to you and saying, what's wrong with my kid? I can't get them to stop. I would say sometimes that absolute will can be the case. And I think to sister, story, the sense is, I don't feel like that's a direction that I'm capable of moving because the world

sent to me all these messages about how it's bad to be doing that and absorbing too much

we commonly in this day and time will have parents ask us questions like, is it an okay thing to

send my kids to preschool? Because I worry that that's going to interrupt attachment in some ways. It is an okay thing to drop them off at Sunday School if they're falling apart in those moments. And 30 years ago, when we were on the front side of our work, no one ever asked that question.

“And I think it's an example of we're talking a lot about attachment. And there's some great”

things that come from that. But over focus on attachment and on two men, and not focusing at all on the balance of support and consequences and boundaries and all those things that help kids thrive, means we're going to be a part of that swing, swing to extremes part two that then kids aren't getting half of the equation that's so necessary to their growth and development. I think every week, I do a consult with parents and I'll say, well, let's talk about some

age-appropriate consequences and the relief that floods their face. And they'll say, I didn't know I could do that anymore. What did, what, what, I'm sorry, but what do they mean? I'm just, I'm blown away by this. It's so much of why we've written this book because we want to say something different. Okay, so what is something that every kid should ideally know how to do by the age of 10, but many don't. Right a bike. That's exactly what our bikes know. And even that will hear those

stories. Like we tried, he fell apart, he refused. I mean, it feels like the early version of the

“driver's license, it felt too overwhelming. He didn't get it down right away. And there again,”

that perfectionism piece that gets in the way for so many kids. And then I don't love to see him falling apart over riding a bike or falling apart when I suggest let's try it again. And so we can intuitively move into that default setting of rescue. We have a hundred capability building exercises in the book that are specific things that parents can do with kids of every age. Little bitty ones can unlearn the bottom rack of the dishwasher. They get a little bit older and

obviously they can say prayers at meal time. Adolescence can lead a family devotional. I mean, there's so many things kids can do to experience and have that practice of capability. You had this teenager tell you it would actually be easier to defeat a monster in a video game than ask a girl to homecoming. What was your response to him? Well, my first thought was, he's exactly right. It would be to just stay in my room, keep a headset on, play video games,

not have to experience the awkward of asking a girl to a dance, of initiating conversation,

“of prioritizing her over the course of the night. That's foundational skill development”

for dating, for being a husband, like all the future things that are going to come out of that experience. And even the parts and pieces of, I will so commonly have conversations with boys about, you know, I feel overwhelmed asking girl in the hallway at school, feels too embarrassing. So

I'd rather just go to her house and ask. And my first thought then is always, well, you hadn't thought

through the fact that her mom is going to answer the door and you're going to have to have a conversation with her and her dad might be home. And I bet he for sure would like to have a conversation with you, but I don't say that because I want him to have all that practice. So I'm like, that's a great idea. Yeah, why don't you go to her house? Have your parents drive you there? And I had an experience with a 15 year old boy who's parents drove him to this girl's house to make the homecoming ask.

And they pulled into the driveway and he said, I can't I can't do this. I need you to turn around and take me home right now. And then it's next declaration was I'm having a panic attack. Now he was talking his way through this conversation. So he obviously was not having what we understand to be a true panic attack because he could breathe and talk in all the things. And I love the wisdom of how his mom walked this out. She didn't in that moment say, you are not having a panic

attack. Quit acting ridiculous. I mean, she started with support. Hey, buddy, I can tell you

feel overwhelmed. It is a big deal to go knock on the store. Last night, we practiced this. His amazing

parents practiced the whole thing. They did address rehearsal. And this mom just acted. I mean, she went to the end degree. It was like an Academy Award winning performance. She was like, acting like the girl's mom. The dad was acting like the girl's dad. She said, we rehearsed this you did great. And then she said, my favorite words while she's like, nervous is normal. I don't think we're saying that enough to kids. So that when they experience their heart racing and their breathing

does shift and maybe this kid was sweating like crazy. He later told me, he assumed something's wrong. As opposed to nervous is normal. What teenage boy is not nervous asking a girl to a dance and walking up to the door and knowing I'm going to have this encounter with her family. And it wasn't until later that night that his mom circled back, which I thought was so great and said, hey, want to go back to what you said in the car. You made this declaration that you were having a panic

attack. And I want to say to you, I don't think you were. So she waited until they were out of that moment. Absolutely. When you was in a high place. Okay. I like that. That's actually really good advice. What percentage of these kids that struggle with anxiety and, you know, getting out and just like participating in social norms, I guess, are medicated? I might say less than half. Yeah. Would you like this?

anxiety medication is anxiety and depression. So I just sometimes I wonder these kids that are put

“on these drugs if it's actually making it worse for them. You know, what is a failure that you should”

want your kid to experience before they leave your house? I did not make cheerleading when I was in sixth grade and it was devastating. And I remember seeing my mom's face in the corner of the room and her watching me cry. And she was not just sad, she was furious. And fast forward to today. And I have a family who threatened to see the school when their daughter didn't make cheerleading. Whoa. And I would say that not making cheerleading literally is what started me in some leadership positions.

It's what started me giving back to younger kids. So many of the things that I'm doing in my life today were because I didn't make cheerleading. And we talk in the book about the great

acronym of fail is the first attempt in learning. I would ask parents where some places that you can

put your kids in activities, in context where they're not going to do it well. And so they will not only struggle but often fail in the process. And to think about your child's specific kind of proclivities, is it sports? Is it arts? Is it where do they kind of lean anyway? But putting a

“man places where they can experience failure is so important? I would add this. I want in response”

your question a lot of failure. Yes. I want a lot of failure. And I want kids to be trying activities that they're not going to be fantastic at because every one of us is adults know, I'm going to end up in experiences where I'm not fantastic at something. And so if we're not

practicing that on the front side, it's going to feel overwhelming on the backside. And we have a

work book that goes with this book called I am capable for kids. And we even have a section one of the strength skill strategies is dealing with disappointment and failure. And we talk kids through all these famous people out in the world. We're like, do you know how many record companies said no to Taylor Swift? Like, do you know how many failures Tom Brady had like these individuals in the world who are so celebrated, who've done extraordinary things? Do you know how many people

would not allow Jackie rallying to even read her manuscripts? Like, and they went on to do great things. And so if we're getting in the way of those opportunities for failing out, I don't think we're preparing kids well for the real world. You guys said that normal friendship conflict among kids is now being labeled toxic. What does that mean? Well, we're seeing this trend with kids where really they're diagnosing themselves. And I started noticing it with girls

probably 10 years ago that it felt like they were using the DSM, which we don't diagnose at they started our practice. But if we were to, it's what we would use to offer a child a diagnosis. It was like a child would come in and try to convince me that they had clinical depression by kind of ticking off the bullet points of it. And what has happened now is the primary source of mental health for kids has become TikTok, which is just unbelievable that that's where

adolescent girls are going to get their information. And in fact, they are diagnosing themselves so much. I had this really interesting experience with a teenage girl who came in and told me she had what's called tick disorder Tourette's similar. Yes, exactly. And she was describing to me what was going on. And then I started hearing a couple more girls who were talking about that. And so I started doing some research. And there was this article that talked about how there were

certain ticks popping up in different parts of the country. And they tracked that there were influencers who were trying to spread awareness about tick disorders and Tourette's syndrome that were popular in the parts of the country where kids were developing these ticks. And ticks are considered a psychogenic illness. And so if I'm in front of you having this repetitive tick, you would start to have it too. So girls who were watching influencers with ticks who were spreading

awareness were developing ticks, developing tick disorders from watching TikTok as crazy as that sounds. And so it's almost like in this day and time with social media with influencers, if I don't have a diagnosis, no one's going to believe that what I'm experiencing is real. It's not going to be valid. I had a group of high school girls, which I knew this was becoming a phenomenon. And I said, how do you all feel like people your age to find themselves today? And this one senior high school

“said, I think we define ourselves by mental health issues. And she said it's one of the first things”

we say about ourselves. Like I have anxiety or I have depression. And I said, how do you feel about that? And she said, well, it bothers me because number one, it makes us skew towards the negative. And number two, it takes away the meaning of the words for people who really are experiencing them.

we might have said, I want to run away from home when we were younger kids now say, I want to

“cut myself. They're going to these big declarations. And so they're dismissing relationships,”

saying, it's toxic because they want people to hear them. And they're not missing that most every relationship we will ever have is going to have some conflict. And we've got to learn how to work through it. It just feels like another place. They're seeing themselves as incapable and unwilling to do our things rather than I can move into the situation. And I've got what it takes to handle it. You talk about kids who don't even want to sleep over at other people's houses because they don't

want to be away from their parents anymore. I would say that 98% of my audience does not allow sleepovers for their kids is your argument that parents should allow sleepovers more often for their kids? We would argue this. We want kids to have practice being away from parents in safe environments with good consistency. And that can happen with grandparents, extended family members, aunts, aunts, uncles, trusted sources going to overnight camp, eventually these

opportunities for what we define as healthy risk that prepare them for. Let's all laugh together. They're going to have to sleep away once they go into a college dormitory at some point along the way like there are no parent child dorms across the country. And so unless we're practicing in that direction, it won't feel instinctive when the bigger opportunities arise. I feel like I hear from parents now saying they don't even let their kids sleep at their grandparents.

They're not allowed to go anywhere overnight period. And then they always say,

"Well, kids are allowed at our house." And I'm like, "Well, none of you are allowing your kids to go anywhere." So who's allowing their kids to go to your? They always throw that caveat out. Like, it sounds like no one is allowing sleepovers. So I grew up my audience and I totally disagree on this. I've talked about it a lot. I grew up in a house that allowed sleepovers. I had kids over

“my house. I went other places just the most fun best times of my life. But I think there is a happy”

medium of finding that extremely trustworthy family. You know, exactly who's in that house. You have established a lot of trust like the parents are very close friends. You guys are always hanging around each other, but you're okay. You're doing life together or, you know,

same with like a grandparent or cousins and ants or whatever. But I mean, it's not somebody

that you obviously talk to twice a year. I mean, this is somebody that you are seeing frequently, weekly. Whatever your kids are very familiar with them and their home or your home. And so I think it's important to identify, you know, one or two, a couple of those families in your life to kind of share those sleepovers with their experiences with so that your kids have those opportunities to be away from parents a little bit. You are the only one swimming in chlorine

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You guys say that parents today don't really know how to establish authority with their kids

“a lot of the time. So how can those parents practically do that? And then at what age should they start?”

Well, we would say authority comes in a lot of different aspects. And one is obviously the parent. And I'm the one who's in charge of our house instead of your emotions being in charge of our house, which is what we're seeing more often than ever. And another place that I think we really establish authority is relationship and being the source. Parents, it is so important in all things that are important for you to be the source. Whether it's talking about sex, talking about

pornography, different things kids could be exposed to different current events that are going on in the world. Kids need to feel like a trust my parents. They're the grown-up in the room. I had a dad who's a CEO of a company who said I'm an office one time. I went to a conference and they talked about how the CEO's supposed to be the calmest person in the room. And he said I was so convicted because I think that's a parent's job too. And so what does it look like to be this

calm, steady, strong support for your kids that helps them understand that you're in charge in a really kind, compassionate way? I think that's so much of where we establish authority with kids. And we do it in an authoritative way instead of an authoritarian way. What are three things every parent should start doing this week to build capability in their kids? Making sure everybody in the family has one context for practicing something they're not good at. And that could be really

small. That could be when we go out to a restaurant and I would intuitively get up and go ask for a refill for my kid, have them go to the counter and ask for the refill of a beverage themselves. Or I might order for them at the restaurant, let them order for themselves. Let's talk about that. At what age should a child be allowed and able to go into a small store where you can see in the windows and watch them to order food, a milkshake, for example, buy themselves

without the parent. As early as possible. For the very reason you name, it's like if I can see that they're safe and they can have the practice, what a great opportunity for them feeling capable. What is a responsibility that someone could give their 11 or 12 year old that maybe they're not doing right now, chores, making their own bed, taking out the trash, chores, even statistically chores build so much confidence in kids. And again, we talk to parents every week who say,

really I can give them chores. That's not going to hurt them. It's so good for kids to have any kind of chores. Help them figure out what they can do even ask them. Talk about it as a family around the dinner table. I think in 11 or 12 year old, I think even younger, but definitely 11 or 12,

“you should be able to make dinner for your family. And that's my hot take. Great practice. That would”

be amazing. We are not even teaching children how to cook. A lot of those, the parents don't know how to cook either. It would be a phenomenal idea. I think, did you a little cooking class or something, even if it's with grandma? Grandma, can you just please come over and teach the whole family how to cook? Because if you don't know the skill, I mean, that's a glaring issue that I'm seeing with people. And what an amazing opportunity for your kids to connect their grandmother? Yes.

Into your wisdom, I learned to make good meals when I'm making lousing meals. Like I learned something every time. That's the first thing that they're learning. Yeah. And you know, that's another thing too. I mean, obviously, this should go without saying because I just said that so many parents

aren't even allowing their kids to sleep over at their grandparents. But I always growing up

was probably around like an eight-hour drive at all times away from my grandparents. And so every

for three weeks. I mean, not the whole month, but a majority of the month. And we would do swim lessons

there. You know, grandparents would sign a set for swim lessons and I'd be playing outside and butterfly catching and, you know, all these different things going to their church with them and learning, you know, meeting those kids at their church. And there was just so many things going to vacation Bible school in that town where my grandparents lived. It's like, that's another thing. I mean, that's a very long time overnight. But we did find a part from our parents. Of course,

we were excited to see them whenever they came to get us at the end of it. But I feel so sad. One,

“and I'm not going to blame this totally on the parents because I think a lot of grandparents”

are not wanting to be grandparents. I feel like they're more interested in spending all their money and going on cruises and things like that than it is pouring into their grandchildren. Are you noticing that, do you have parents coming in complaining that the grandparents don't want to be involved? We probably have more parents coming in and complaining that the grandparents are giving too much image. That's a great way. Correcting their parenting, intervening in some

ways where there's not on a line sense of we're wanting the same things for kids. Wait, but I got to go back because I don't know if your grandparents are still living, are they? Yes. I can't imagine how insanely proud they are of you. Of watching you do all that you're doing. And I believe, I would guess that that month you spent with them is significantly part of who you are today. 100%. And what you're doing right now, that you felt like I can be away from my parents.

I can be outside. I can do all these things. Be outside of my comfort zone in this really enriching way for who you are. And here you are living this life of being outside of your comfort zone, probably a lot. And doing hard things regularly and believing that you're capable. So, way to go, I hope your grandparents listen. We are cheering you on and grateful for you. Thank you. That's so sweet. I think, you know, for me growing up is saying that something felt too hard or too uncomfortable

was really not an option. I was 18 or so graduated high school. Decided I was going to delay going away to college in Chicago so that I can intern at my favorite radio station. My dad's complaint was, "Why are you going to drive all the way to downtown Louisville, pay to park for an unpaid internship?" And I was like, "Because I got to do this dad. This is how you like read a career."

“So I need to be an unpaid intern. You have to know your kids personality. But for me,”

my personality was, "You tell me I can't do something or have disbelief or something. And then I'm like, "Well, I'm going to prove you wrong." I either very strong will stubborn personality. So when somebody tries to control what I'm saying or do it, then I want to go even crazier. So even my dad'd be like, "Are you sure you want to do that? It's been your own money to park and not get paid?" I was like, "Yes." Because you're questioning it. He probably figured that out

along the way was using some reverse psychology on you. But that was uncomfortable. That was uncomfortable to go doing that. You know what I mean? So that's figuring out parallel parking downtown and going up into a big building. Because it makes me sad that so many of these kids are, I don't know,

it seems like they're just completely sheltered at home. Never have any experience in the outside

world at all or taking care of themselves. Then they're catapulted into college. And then I feel like, "Maybe that's why we're seeing all these kids graduate college and then moving back home. They don't even know what they're doing once they're out of that." They haven't experienced being capable. We love like mantra. It's kind of saying, "And it can be a scripture." I mean, something you go back to over and over, but part of my story, Alex, is having an interesting family

dynamic where I was an only child until 16 in the my parents told me that they were pregnant. So at this much younger sister, evidently my first response to my mom was, "I didn't know you'll did that anymore." So it's just my sister and me, 16 years apart. And she has a seven and a three-year old. And when her oldest was four, we took him to Disney for the first time. And it's so scary. If you haven't been to Disney with the toddler and I didn't think through that and we were at

parents of the Caribbean and we were going down through the tunnels and the dark and twisty and his little face was getting more and more stricken. And I got down on his level and I said, Henry, a little bit scared, a whole lot of fun. And so that became what we said all over Disney, that week. A little bit scared, a whole lot of fun. We said it last week about something else. He was

trying for the first time. And so I think helping kids understand not just, they need to do

hard things but there's real work and there's good and there's confidence and confidence and capability and all these things that come from doing hard things. So having some statements that we anchor ourselves to with kids can be really helpful. This is just popping in my head because a friend message me and told me that they have a two-year-old and that two or maybe two or three-year-old and they had guests that were hosting them for dinner. And so they were guests in this home and

the two-year-old kept talking over the people. And so the dad took the kid out of the room and

“calmly said, "Hey, we are guests in their home. You need to listen and then you need to ask a”

question after they're talking." And so the kid, they practiced with that toddler sitting, listening and then they could ask a question, "It could be very basic. It could be what's your favorite color?" But you know, learning how to kind of converse like that and become a little

that was about you. Okay. Ready to go eating. If a parent feels like, wow, listening to you guys, I have severely messed up. I'm not disciplining my kids. I don't know where to begin. My kid has so many issues. Whether that's behavioral issues and they're kind of a menace or they're just in a little safety bubble in the room and they don't know how to get them out of it. Where can they even start? Well, we love, there's some psychologists who say all behaviors communication. And we

love that statement. And so even the child who's a menace, there's something happening inside of them that they're saying, "I need." And it may be, "I need you to be bigger than I am as my parent." And so, I mean, my hope would be that they can start with the capable but because that's part of, you know, so often when people are therapists, they stop counseling when they start writing, or start speaking. And we're still meeting with kids and families every week. And we're

writing out of where we're most concerned. And so our intention with this book is really to say, here's a how to. Here's how we go back to building kids who have resilience, who have strength, who believe they're capable and it is still possible in this day and time, even in the midst of

“technology and social media and all the things. What is the name of your book and one does it come out?”

The book is capable of how to teach kids the strength skills and strategies to build resilience. And it comes out April 22nd. Okay, I'm so excited for you guys. How can people work with you to be their child's counselor in Nashville? If that's where you are right Nashville? Yes. Well, if they're in Nashville, they can just call, they start counseling and we're there. And then we do parent consults with people all over the country, be a Zoom or in person if they're locally.

If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be? I think going back to the fact that parents aren't trusting themselves. I would hold up a phone if I had it, but they're trusting that box more than they're trusting themselves. I would say you are the expert when it comes to your child. As a parent, and I think God gives us what we need to trust him that he is leading you in this process. And he has given you

“exactly what you need for the kids that you love. And I think for all of us that aren't”

parents, too, that we all would put down our devices and trust that God's going to speak to us inside of ourselves and inside of our intuition with what we need. I was actually thinking back to the great question you asked a few minutes ago in the parent who felt like I'd done everything

wrong. I would want to say it's never too late. And we talk about the remedy of playing the long

game in the capable book. And when our kids feel stuck in some season of their development, remembering that is just a season. I laugh a lot with parents about how every developmental theorists would say 13 to 15 is the worst episode of a boy's life, like just the most complicated stretch of development. And I would say about myself, no one who knew me at 14 would have thought that guy's going to go on to be a therapist someday. Plenty of people thought that God needs a therapist.

Not that I would be one because I wasn't done developing. I was at a complicated stretch. And so

“I want to challenge parents to remember that and play the long game in this journey of raising”

capable kids. How many kids do you have? Three. And do you have any kids to see? I don't. I get to do a lot of life with my long nephews. And I have a little dog. You know what I think is cool is some of the just the most popular parenting episodes I've done. People that have dedicated their

entire lives to working with children and have unbelievable expertise or people that have never

had children. Dr. Kathy Koku talks about eight great smarts discovering your child's intelligent style. She's never had children either. So we had a really cool conversation about that when I filmed an episode with her. But anyway, you guys are doing incredible work. I want to see this cute little yellow house and ask them to come this way. We need our dogs. So cute. I love it. Thank you guys. You were such a delight. Thanks for coming on culture popular. Thank you for having us.

If you're a child at any point was like some of the kids we described and you pulled them out of it, share how. What was the most jaw-dropping thing that they shared? For me, it was the parents with the struggling kids being appalled by the word discipline. Not gonna lie. I see a lot of that in the cute service as Facebook group too. Do you agree with their advice? I really like David and to see a lot. Leave a five star review to celebrate the important work done by my team.

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