Are we back in the stone age? The 320th Evolutionary Lens with Bret Weinstein and Heather Heying

Hey folks, welcome to the Dark Horse podcast live stream number 320.

Now I'm Dr. Brett Weinstein, you're Dr. Heather Huying, spring rages on here before anyone is returned to the Stone Age and I don't know these are exciting times, I'm kind of nervous about well everything from the markets to the streets of Hormuz which ordinarily I don't think enough about but boy am I focused on them at the moment and we have a lot of interesting things to talk about from the philosophical to the kinetic to the descent into tyranny as

viewed from right here in the state of Washington. Connecticut? Yeah, there's a lot of kinetic and you know, depending upon who you ask, the kineticism of the war in Iran is either going brilliantly or catastrophically and presumably the truth could lie somewhere in between those but nonetheless all of our futures seem to be hanging in the balance of a story that I don't know anybody who's really got a grasp on exactly what's happening

and I will say the degree to which events that should be very hard to conceal are actually obscure to us in the West is shocking. We can talk about anything but we know very little

“and I think that that's so describes nearly the entire world at this point. Yeah, I mean”

that's right if we're showing up anywhere to the degree that people are trying to make meaning from their screens, none of it is as we've said before, none of it is eyewitness, none of it, you don't know anything that comes to your screen as to whether or not it's actually true. Yeah, I mean we've said that even when you do see it on your screen you don't know what kind of an edit you're getting but I think we've got even another level here where

we have like Cartesian blinders being put on us so that we are trying to make sense out of scraps of information and hints and boys is it it's a tough job to even know where to start. It's one thing if you're trying to take a bunch of information that's unfiltered and has lots of noise and misleading stuff in it and makes sense of it. It's another thing if you're trying to infer things from silence and from implications from people who do have good information who may not be telling

you the truth. I don't know it's a it's a level of Cartesian crisis that on the one hand you

can anticipate. I mean at the point that I guess it was during the probably the first go for that

they innovated the ability not the ability they innovated the embedding that was their term of the press in with a military units such that basically what we saw was modified so we were effectively looking through the eyes of soldiers rather than looking at the situation soldiers were in. We've now moved into some kind of high gear where it's not you know, I don't know who you'd embed with but but we're not even getting a highly skewed perspective based on a you know a pairing of the

“press. It's just like the press is in the dark and I don't know. I think we need to come up with”

some sort of framework for even how to think about reasoning with the deliberate censorship of information. It's probably something that people who have lived under totalitarian regimes would be way better positioned to talk about because of course you know if you lived in Russia during the Soviet days you knew that what probability was telling you was nonsense or selective sense. Well I wonder to what degree I mean that's easy for us to say now

but I imagine that a large proportion of the population didn't know that or they imagined that the system was mostly intact and that it was sometimes getting it wrong and maybe even sometimes lying but you know the idea that in hindsight we can see that a population would have known that things

“were totally awry is actually I think a pretty classic error of thinking historically and imagine”

it couldn't possibly be living in those in such historic times now. It is it is it is you never

live through the clarity that results after it has passed. That's true I mean my guess would be

I think the population was broadly aware that they were they were seeing shadows in the wall

“and they and they had an adaptation to it I guess this is kind of my point is I think if you've”

lived for a generation under complete control of information yeah then you've learned to think privately and in fact yes we had a check friend we didn't know him well but he was a guy in our

graduate school I have mentioned before Miro Miro Slav I believe is his full first name but Miro was a

check guy who had in the very late stages of the Soviet era published what would have been cause it's some is not about do I have the right word he published you know dissident literature knowing that he would likely be killed or tortured if this was discovered and you know it was sort of a sort of a speak easy response to to prohibition the idea is a culture of tuning out the nonsense and figuring out how to cobble together since privately existed and we're now in some

new situation where we're sort of publicly just grappling with the first stages of a war in which

you know at some level trying to infer reality from memes and public pronouncements by people who

have interest at many different levels that are you know that are not consistent with the public

“being informed they want the public on board but anyway I think we need a whole new tool kit for”

thinking about this oh it's the case which is not you know not to look at that anyone arrives with or really has generated I would say that what what I want to talk about this week or for requires no such thing you know imagining that we know what is going on in the minds of legislators is quite a task but once they instantiate they're thinking into law then we have a document to look at and so we've got a new document in the state of Washington

we talked we talked on the last episode about some of the some of the stuff going on in Washington well we've got something unrelated you're coming out of the same legislative session to talk about this week and of course you know the law is not the same as say biology in that when you're trying to infer what is true in in biological space there is a reality and your interpretation is your interpretation when it doesn't change what is underlying true and when you're talking about

the law there is text and regardless you know it is you know should it go to such as such a place there will be interpretation of what has been written and there is no underlying reality outside of the text and so there is an inference required but it's not nearly the same kind of inference

with shadows and and second and third and fourth order effects like what you're talking about

so it is a far easier task at least at I would say first second third approximation to understand what what our lawmakers here in the state of Washington have in mind for us with this new piece of legislation yeah it's different because you have no idea why but you do know what exactly you know what they've done it's just it's it's it's right there black and white yeah it's right there black and white even if it's written to obscure I mean as we talked about last time

the hidden marriage penalty in the new tax the new it was not hidden well it's doesn't know obscured there's really clear about it well they don't describe it as a marriage penalty they don't call it a marriage penalty anymore than they call on a state tax a death tax but you know there's different words for different things but the idea that and many states you have a tax above a certain income level for individuals and in a few states including the

state of Washington you have a tax above a certain level for companies regardless of whether you're not your single or a couple which means obviously you're better off if you are a higher and are but not an extraordinarily higher and are actually either way if you are a higher and are you're better off and naturally if you're single right which you know we can call it a marriage

“penalty do they call it marriage penalty of course not but that's what it is right but I guess what I'm”

saying is if you take the marriage penalty that obviously exists in that law and you pair it with all of the other attacks on family that we have seen you can hypothesize there is something

likely explanation for why you would do a curious thing like punish people from being married you

“know it's a two for from their respective more money and they get to continue to attack the family”

it's win-win right yes it's win-win but at least it paints a kind of a picture it allows you

you can look at the dots and then you can connect them you may not always connect them accurately

but at least you have dots to connect it's a very different scenario than where every dot is taken on some kind of faith about the person describing its location yep and anyway these are both bad situations to be in but boy I'd rather have dots to connect that's a far easier easier game to play and anyway we're in both situations simultaneously so join us on locals where this watch party going on we don't have a Q&A today but we did less Sunday you can find

that one there as well and we are in the second of a four pack of evolutionary lens episodes right now we were here on Wednesday we'll be here next Wednesday next Saturday so lots of lots of their course content coming up in recent history you did a patreon call this morning oh wow all of

“those things are true it was it oh man yeah we were firing on all cylinders we got another one tomorrow”

yes that's true we've got more cylinders right is that how that works or are you just going to reuse the same cylinders I would expect I mean I guess if we're going to continue the cylinder analogy will probably just for the expense reasons continue using the same cylinders but try to fire them off all right so let's let's do our ads for our three carefully chosen awesome sponsors

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join Crowd Health dot com you know how people who know each other really well like people who have been married a long time can't help but finish each other sentences in their heads when you said that in the second incident that you needed a head my mind finished the sentence with a transplant which not only is that not possible but I'm really glad you didn't need one and I feel like you might have plans for me that I'm not that into you know no it was just

I you know what it was it was my inner I mean well it means that the LLM is constantly looking for the next word that would make a lot of sense and this was not the most shining moment of my inner LLM but it did but I enter LLM I mean you've said that you know what it is is is trying to be as human as possible like an LLM is trying to mimic with the human language capacity so what do you mean by your inner LLM you're like are like you are an animate original organic

LLM inherently yep and so that's I feel like that's an excuse all right like you're planning a head transplant and I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to keep my eye on you I'm most of with the head I have no I both of the eyes that I have and the head that I have yes now I appreciate

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I don't think that counts all right I mean the first flight was 30 seconds so you know things count but that's what it is if you're listing the number of instances in which this has been tried that's definitely dry didn't say try but but I but I grant your point about the first flight being 30 seconds is still counting is the first manned flight so yeah yes okay powered powered manned powered manned flight yeah yes a Wilburd flight all right our final sponsor this week is

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show name at checkout alright dramatic but I'm past it are you yes I am past I would like if possible to start with a a thought that occurred to me out of the blue that will not let me go since it happened um as our viewers and anybody who's the slightest bit familiar with last names will realize I'm Jewish I grew up in a secular Jewish home and not that long after the end of world war two I was born in 1969 world war two ended in 1945 and the holocaust loomed very large

in the thinking of many people and especially Jews during that period one of the things that I was raised with was the question of can it happen here and the answer to that question as I came to understand it was yes it can happen here and the implication of that was that we must be ever

“vigilant for the signs that a genocide might be emerging and frankly I think it's a very”

good lesson and a good mental exercise even if an uncomfortable one now that question wasn't just a feature of my household in fact it was widely discussed in fact there's a book by Sinclair Lewis from 1935 that's pretty early um called it can't happen here you can see it on the screen now and the title of it didn't 35 1935 what he was motivated he was motivated by the rise of Hitler and Mussolini and so it effectively anticipates a genocidal outburst and haven't read the book

prime location to worry about this but that it can happen anywhere so anyway this is a long standing question and um it's an important one now I will come back to my own framework for thinking about such questions but what occurred to me this week was that there's a question that we didn't ask and I can't figure out why not and the question is we being people in your family

“the community of similar Jews yeah you were let's put it to this way I think can it happen here was a”

ubiquitous question it was described in many contexts but the question that was never asked in

those contexts that I'm aware of is and it happened to us now the subtlety here is that it is a different thing the question is is there something about us whoever us might be whether it's Americans or Jews or any other ethnicity race population question is the thing that happened to the Germans are we immune from that happening to us in other words if we take this outbreak of genocidal impulse and we ask the question is there something special about populations that fall into this

“I believe I know from all of the work I've done over an evolution space thinking about genocide”

which long time viewers will know goes back to when I was in college in fact I wrote a paper

for Bob Trivers on the question of basically an evolutionary analysis of what

had taken place in Nazi Germany and the conclusion was a very disturbing one it was that what happened was monstrous but completely comprehensible from an evolutionary perspective it is not an accident that the genocidal outburst of the Nazis would if it had functioned as intended resulted in the mass replacement of one population with another population and that that's an

“evolutionary win even if it's morally unforgivable it is not incomprehensible in the slightest so”

in light of that and in light of the fact that the Nazi genocide is distinct in some ways it was a large genocide it was also thoroughly well documented by the Nazis themselves which gives us a lot more access to what happened and it had a particular German character to it the sort of systematic nature of it looks very different than other genocides certainly many of them but nonetheless despite the specifics being different it was a recognizable pattern of human history it's a recurrent pattern

and so obviously it isn't limited to Germans for any obvious reason would be impossible to make the argument that it was in light of how many genocides there were I would also point out that the idea

of never again which was a kind of global idea right the horrors of the Holocaust resulted in a lot of

thought about how it is that we can banish this pattern forever and that's been a failure we've seen numerous genocides since but again the question that has been preoccupied me is what is it that makes a population capable of doing this and is there any reason to think that Jews who have been repeating repeatedly on the downside of genocide might not find themselves in the opposite position and obviously this is a relevant question in the present because many of the things that are

taking place while I don't think any of them technically qualify fully for that at least not in an unarguable way do raise the question of whether or not the shoes on the other foot and let me point out that you know we've got multiple we've got the Israelis and it isn't really the Israelis it's

major military operation in Gaza that involved a tremendous amount of civilian death the question has

“been raised about whether or not that's a genocide and I think it is worth recognizing that genocide”

has a specific and narrow definition which leaves the question at the very least ambiguous because one of the things that is required or something to actually qualify is intent now I do think we see genocidal intent in the statements of the distinction being genocide is to mass slaughter as murder is to hog is to manslaughter, homicide is to manslaughter yeah that's genocide is to mass slaughter that's at least at least pretty close because if the idea that's the distinction you're making is

if intent is required for genocide to have occurred intent is required because obviously you

“there's a difference between people being killed in mass numbers as true collateral damage”

and people being targeted and so the definition of genocide requires that a population is targeted for destruction in whole or in part and of course Gaza is confusing in this regard because October 7th whatever it was created a situation in which you had a hostile force embedded in a civilian population and going after that force does not have any straightforward military answer that leaves the population out of it so in other words you have the destruction of a

large fraction of population something like 50,000 deaths in Gaza and the displacement of nearly the entire population as I understand it but you also had a military or a paramilitary force that was intentionally so thoroughly intertwined that yes if the question is a technical one it's difficult to answer maybe by design well so one piece of what you're saying troubles me I don't I doubt you meant to conflate these two things but you were speaking precisely enough

that maybe you did you said with regard to it could never happen here could it happen to us in this

case being Jews and you are using as a possible example what is happening with regard to the Israelis acting against the Palestinians in Gaza but the Israelis and diaspora Jews are not the same thing at all and that feels to me a little bit like well I can I can use an analogy from my own not my personal history my family history where my father you know I'm as as listeners will now I I am not Jewish and my father was German-American German Catholic farm farm boy group in

northeastern Iowa among a lot of other German Catholic families and he was born in 1938 and they because they were mostly surrounded by other Germans didn't weren't the target of a lot of hate but felt a certain amount of responsibility and disgust towards what they had left and what they

still felt was a homeland even though my father was not a first-generation immigrant you know he'd never

been and so there was sort of a sense of like what what but the hell are people doing and also

“we are not of them anymore and it would have been but I think absurd for someone who had never been”

to the place but whose family came from there some generations earlier to feel that he was somehow responsible so I don't understand why you would conflate you know and and even you know all of all of Israel but certainly all of you know all of modern jewelry with an action that is being taken by a particular group of people within a particular country which is Israel. I a hundred percent agree I think the reason that I'm not placing that distinction front and

center yet is that I think we have to do this in the abstract even to understand where we are and

requires active control of it by people who are morally constrained as they should be

“I don't believe I'm capable of genocide I think I am I don't think I have any genetic immunity to it”

but I think I have a developmental immunity which comes from values that would not allow me to participate in that you know frankly even with a gun to my head so it's not that I think we are all condemned to you know be capable of becoming genocide a lot of moments notice but I do think an awful lot of effort needs to be put into thinking about what is it that actually practically takes

this off the list of possibilities and one of the things that takes it off the list of possibilities

is that a population itself has within it and immunity to this behavior and I don't see that immunity functioning effectively in the present I see lots of people who appear to be acting out of a genocidal impulse they may be the tiniest minority but so perhaps perhaps it's a couple of things you would you would have thought and you would hope of that having been the target of genocidal impulse over and over and over again throughout history Jews have been and you know this explains in

part why there are so many there's so much diaspora right that you might expect both greater awareness of a tendency to go there and reduced capacity to enacted others and you're not sure that you see either of these things yeah I'm disappointed that I don't see I mean and you know there are reasons we don't see it the pushback when you explore any question in this neighborhood is so ferocious

“that I think lots of people who themselves do have the correct impulses to take this off the map”

to you know to forego this option completely that those people are bound into silence and it is leaving a tiny number of people who appear to me to be genocidal in positions of power that they shouldn't be so you know that may be my oversimplifying situation but I guess the reason I started with the question can it happen to us where it is a

genocidal outburst I mean first of all I'm no biblical scholar but as I read Moses' laws

for war in the Torah they basically describe the situation in which this is the prescribed behavior from God that this is what God wants what if there are circumstances in which if I think if I remember the rules correctly that if you intend to capture a territory that you are to do away with everybody if you intend to defeat an enemy and go home the behavior is different but but in any case I don't think let me go back to the evolutionary point which will be familiar to many of you

“I think the most fundamental rule of human population interaction is not a human rule at all”

it goes back to the evolutionary history of populations of creatures all creatures are driven evolutionarily to capture resource territory being the primary one a territory is something that has the other things that you need you know food water hospitable climate etc to capture territory and that means displacing whatever was there in your niche so creatures you know the weed that invades your lawn is displacing the grass and you as a gardener intervene on behalf of the grass

in order to keep the weeds out but the point is the weeds are not concerned about the rights of the grass they're doing what they do they're displacing their competitor and so displacing your competitor population whether you know it's one you know version of a species displacing another one or it's one species replacing another one this is this is just simply the way evolutionary ecology functions day and day out species after species

one thing that occurs to me is as you're talking is that I think people get confused by the many meanings of phrases like that's understandable and I get it and I think you know when

that term but most people would be hearing this and say oh you know as was was rational is it

“understandable you get it you you are making a absolute case for their being logic behind predictability”

about this behavior that explains why it happens over and over and over again across time across space across context what you're in no way doing is excusing it is justifying it is saying they should have and yet when people say that's understandable or I get it sometimes they mean the first and sometimes they mean the second and that means that many of us in our heads when we hear someone say that will replace one with the other and then forever after having our heads

oh well you know he was he was just to find that things like no he never said that and in fact

there was some language that was used that actually has two distinct meanings and because we're not careful about which thing we mean and then humans also aren't careful about which meaning we interpreted we can take it forward as that's an evolutionary biologist again justifying genocide and there is no justification here there was an attempt to understand such that we can better minimize it's a current going forward yes and in fact I'll go one step further and I will say the

reason that I've spent as much time on this question as I have over the course of or even had a

“career but since I was a college student is that I believe the best shot we have at actually”

eliminating genocide as a pattern of history is thoroughly understanding why it happens and therefore

understanding that we do have a choice but the choice doesn't come at the point that a genocide is about to begin we have to choose an alternative pattern and in fact in the work I did in college I coined the term to describe Hitler himself that he was a rational monster and so my point is if you take in if you hear me say he's rational you'll get the meaning that you were just worried people would be taking if you understand that I've used it to the word monster so you can't

possibly understand this as a justification it's not a justification and you know do you understand the mafia because you don't have to like the mafia to understand how they function and that they do function and that it's a pattern that recurs and that there are you know there's a Japanese mafia and a Jewish mafia and a Italian mafia and you know cartels and in Mexico and all the point is understanding that these things have a logic to them is not the same thing as saying they're

okay and in fact you'd be a fool to surrender the tool of understanding them if what you want to do is prevent them you'd precisely be a fool to surrender the tool of trying to understand them you would be a fool and indeed we have those fools among us all over the place we I remember being told in grad school there are some questions we shouldn't ask I find that to be an anti-scientific and dangerous perspective are there some answers that will be ugly and make us uncomfortable surely

“but the idea that there are questions that we should not be asking is reprehensible honestly”

yeah it is it is reprehensible and so I know this is in some ways a tortured explanation but the reason that this question preoccupies me is that I feel like the genuine sympathy that people rightly have for Jews based on repeated genocides and programs against them and the Holocaust specifically that that desire to be on the right side of this issue with respect to Jews causes an inference that is not justified which is that Jews would of course be incapable of such behavior

because that history would have taught them the moral lesson of it and the problem to go back to the evolutionary question go back to the grass and the weeds is that populations display each other that is their basic nature and because it is their basic nature a model that I built out that I call lineage selection that lineage selection involves not only thinking about individuals and their success and competing with each other which we all understand pretty well that populations

do this that they do it to their own evolutionary benefit over the long term at large scale and that that pattern has you know just the same way if we were looking at primates non-human primates

we'd say oh that's made guarding right and then if you see a young couple humans in love you say oh

“I wonder if they'll get married and it's like well actually marriage is a special case of made”

guarding it's not all it is but the point is we actually know that pattern it has a different name and we've got a whole body of literature on how it functions and then we get to the human context you pretend it's some brand new thing and an eight so lineage selection the way it unfolds with human populations is that human populations display each other because the alternative

involves being displaced right if you forego displacing other populations then you're limited

in scope and the likelihood that your population will be displaced by somebody else and it might not have been fully displaced if it had been larger because you had displaced competing populations and I mean as as as we talk about in the final chapter of hunter-gatherers guides the frontier that we have to be fighting over now can't be one of space can't be one of territory because at least here on earth we've we've done it well you mean you can't find a new territorial frontier that doesn't

have other people yeah there that other people haven't already at least bend to and decided it

isn't worth their time so theft of resource is ever present theft of territory being the primary most valuable resource there is because it is finite and you can't substitute anything else for it so the default state of nature involves populations displacing each other because they don't have a choice we humans have an alternative mode that we have been experimenting with and that alternative mode is effectively what I would call the modern west in the modern west

what we do is we agree not to stop competing because you can't build a system in which competition isn't present but to reduce that competition to a non-violent non-displacing type that we set aside our racial differences we collaborate with whoever has the goods to collaborate with us because it is wealth producing to do so and we try to sideline the violence my claim is

“that that system is superior in every important regard to lineage versus lineage violence it is”

safer it is fairer it is more productive it is more rewarding it provides more opportunity to engage in meaning making all of the benefits of being a human are enhanced by living under a system of decidedly reduced violence where displacing other populations is not an objective but that system the west is fragile it breaks down and when it breaks down because something has gone awry it breaks down into lineage against lineage violence and so I want to be careful to make

sure people understand that my argument here is that all human populations are capable of falling into this displacement mode that it is the expected mode when conditions when surrounding conditions fostered so I'm particularly worried about the Middle East because there is an awful lot of concern about who owns territory based on ethnicity and lineage and religious doctrine all of these things being proxy for an underlying genetic reality

which is sometimes confusing you have multiple different lineage of Jews you have obviously multiple different lineage of Muslims but the point is once you spot that even a population

“that I think because of its diaspora nature has faced repeated genocidal outbursts against it”

there is no immunity to behaving this way because these are effectively the old rules reasserting themselves so well I wonder what you just said was you said repeated genocides are you think due to the diaspora nature of many Jewish populations because Jews are at least three distinct adaptive radiations yeah I wonder if that actually I wouldn't necessarily argue to reverse

I have not a group among many different secular Jewish households and and print groups

“each of which was different in its way but there is there is something cultural at least”

in American diaspora Jews that is different from other people as I have met them that may itself lead to the diaspora nature that I don't I don't think that saying saying diaspora as the initial thing that prompts the reaction is explanatory enough I think there's there's something there's something distinct culturally about a group that isn't actually a single lineage that is that is multiple languages that comes together around okay

a book you know a set of ancient texts and in some cases a set of religious beliefs but really

you know the number at least in diaspora the number of Jews who are actually secular is extraordinary

“remarkably high fraction and so there's something about the the focus on the interest in descent”

and coming together over food and family and conversation and not being scared of disagreement and insisting in fact on disagreement if you hear something that you think is wrong that I find you know not true in many other at least subcultures of America well I'm also watching that receipt which is frightening and disheartening but more to your earlier point there's a cycle here too right if you were raised with the question like explicitly

repeated multiple times discussed at the length can it happen here that lodges itself in a certain place

and can it happen here the answer is yes that's the rational answer once you know that the

answer is yes it raises the question is it happening here yeah was that joke the first sign and the answer is now it probably wasn't but there's a there's a heightened sense of awareness that again is is impossible to tease apart from the diaspora nature like this is this is this is my homeland well like homeland like no well if you've got a whole population if I meet another secular Jew from somewhere else I don't have the conversation with them you know did you

grow up with the question can it happen here it would just be my assumption yeah it's assumed yeah so the point is okay you have that feature of your personality I have that feature of my personality you may not have thought about the question in a decade but it's it functions as a

“uniting force which I think is fine but it also functions to create a a distance right from”

well if it's going to happen here who will who will be manning it who will staff it who will lead it right this is why so many of the accusations you know in the run up to Trump's elections we're so jarring because the point is people are saying it is happening here there he is right and so anyway that mindset is part of a cycle if you know that you might be selected out and that it could happen here and you know what that looks like because you've studied it then

there and and some of your family lived it right so there's a kind of sleep with one I open aspect and when you've got a population you've got a population of people they're by and large ignoring race nobody's thinking terribly hard about you know whose ancestors you know believed in what book but you know some fraction of them are sleeping thinking oh I got to be alert because it's some moment that may become the primary feature of my life right then that creates a kind of

circle the wagons mentality and I'm not arguing that that's a bad thing I wouldn't you know I've taught this to our children because I want them to know it but but I guess point being the it creates an insular layer and that insular layer makes it more likely that it actually happens it means that you know there is some sort of you know barrier to feeling fully at home and say for whatever it is and so anyway it's part of a cycle and the well I will just say

one anecdote I'm not going to say who but I recently had a Jewish friend take me to task for trying

between Israel and the US what's taking place in the Middle East what's my responsibility to it and the person said something pretty nasty which I think they had absolutely no legitimate basis for

saying it but nonetheless they said it and it wasn't the first time I've heard it they said you know

you might be able to last a little longer they might come for you five minutes after they come

“for me but they're coming for you all the same as if that's what this is right as if as if I'm a”

carrot trying to say my own skin which is you know whatever the reality of the situation is personally I feel jeopardy talking about these things in public I don't think this deserves what you know as you also know so this is not right anybody who knows me should understand that that's that's not that's not what's going on but nonetheless even the fact that the

sentiment adds up right oh I get why you're doing this you're trying to get in good with the

genociders it's like okay so now I'm watching the cycle kind of kick into high gear yes I see a ton of anti-semitism and in fact you know I was of course talking about what I called Nazi Twitter you know a year before most people had even encountered it right so I'm well aware of the danger

“of that mindset and the fact that it is out there and it's not even hiding it's just”

the algorithm isn't showing it to you or it wasn't but at the same time I'm watching the kind of insular reaction to that thing which is causing a shut down of the exact things that I valued most

about my Jewish upbringing was the you know fearless confrontation with possibilities that were

hard to discuss and the willingness to do so you know you know even though it created you know impassioned arguments without doing so personally and all of that those things I see receding and I see a lot of people being quiet about what they actually privately understand because the thing that comes back to you is so ferocious when you dare raise any skepticism about anything so anyway it's I'm watching the thing unfold in real time in a way I frankly didn't think

I was going to live to see I thought it might happen but I didn't think I was going to live to see it and living it is very different than the cartoon that we were presented which is yes it can happen be alert for it but you know watching the dynamics is very unfortunate and so well but it's I would I would ask that you and everyone who is experiencing some version of what you are describing try to truly record it try to pick up because again we are we are handed cartoons

down through history we are we are told this is what this is what it was like and it feels obvious and retrospect what the but the good people should have done of what the bad people clearly did and that's of course not what happens yeah so you know I I wonder as I did during COVID as I did during the summer of 2020 after George Floyd died during the whole BLM like I wonder over and over and over again how this actually differs from other variants that are too far on

the past for us to have direct memory of for which we only have historians records or the victors records or whatever whatever it is that very and that you know this is one of the things that that story does because story doesn't pretend to be objective it tries to tell an individual's experience and frankly it is it is the individual experience of what it what it was like on the ground day-to-day that actually gives you a sense of what what happened and how what happened

and how people could have been so foolish cowardly despicable murderous in that order you know to fit a single individual that starts off foolish and ends up murderous potentially well

“I think the most relevant example is or well and the unfortunate thing about or well is you know”

or well obviously wrote a ton of analytical stuff and then he wrote the stuff that he's remembered for and the stuff that he remembered for he's remembered for like 1984 turns out to be much more literal than I certainly understood before we started living through the madness of the last 10 years but the inversion of language right I thought that that was like a bridge too far

that was a warning and I'm very grateful to have had or well see the idea that this can really

“happen people can actually just start inverting language right and they will do so and the open”

without embarrassment and you won't be able to believe it right so that it was you know without or well we'd be struggling to describe this inversion of language with or well at least it snaps into place as soon as you see it yeah I'm reminded and sorry I was just looking it up to make sure back in May of 2022 we talked about Victor Freckles man search for meaning and

which I see in my notes here I had found a copy of on our friend Dave Stephens carefully

curated small library on on his on his boat he lived the Nazis coming in and so his his his reports are or well as brilliant I find in some ways or well at his most brilliant when he is reporting on his actual you know travels through the countryside and in his non is non fiction

“and I can't remember at the moment I'm forgetting the name although I've read from from some of”

that work of his as well you know 1984 animal farm are are brilliant narratives but they are him imagining a future given what he has seen and reports of people who actually lived through the horror in real time and how it is at the experience what it felt like to them which is you know part of what part of what you were talking about is is seeing how people are responding to what we are being told and you know almost acting in opposite ways then what you would expect them to do

we need we need that record it I agree that's that's the story at the moment I'm asking for I'm not actually I want story of all sorts but I specifically want individual story that the individuals telling them believed to be true and someone else who was there at the same time with a different you know a different persona may have read it entirely different way but you know you walk through your own life and you are experiencing you know you're experiencing a historic moment

a series of historic moments right now and and maybe this too will feel extraordinarily clear cut out for years from now it doesn't right now it doesn't and so I'm I'm hoping that that is one of the things that we figure out how to understand what's happening and record it because each time it happens it is it is the most valuable of lessons I'm also hoping that we can hold our own feet to

“the fire I think increasingly a key to breaking these dynamics is a fearless willingness to”

to reflect on you know on our own behavior and the behavior of populations that were part of and I wanted to just look at something that you want to put up the tweet the let that sink in tweet by and army this is an account I don't know but it pointed me to something that I had been unaware of previously it has to do with what's going on in southern Lebanon as the world is focused on the war with Iran so the tweet that caught my attention says Jewish troops will be looking for

Muslims hidden in the addicts of Christians let that sink in now I did not know what that was a reference to it first and I pursued it down a couple of levels to you want to show the tweet with the New York Times articles you can you can get there through Ryan Grimm's quoted tweet there if you want but in any case what this is referring to is an explicit warning so this is from Zachary Foster he says Israeli authorities confess they are signaling out Shiite Lebanese population for destruction

this is a textbook ethnic cleansing described as Israel's message by the New York Times so never mind

Times is reporting so the headline of this article is Israel's message to a broad swath of Lebanon Shiite's must go Israel has issued sweeping evacuation warnings and press some Christians and Jews leaders to expel Shiite Muslims from southern towns the leaders said and then let's go to the other screenshot it says in private calls to local leaders across southern Lebanon Israeli military officials have assured several Christian and Jews communities that they could remain in the

“evacuation zone so in any case you have to kind of cobble the story together here but the Israelis”

have been very aggressive in southern Lebanon there effectively at war there and I don't want to oversimplify the context because the Israeli position is not one any of us would want to be in the Israelis in northern Israel are routinely being shelved by Hezbollah from Lebanon now there's a long history there Palestinians were expelled from Israel they retreated to Lebanon and have been they have had various organizational structures most recently Hezbollah which is not only funded by

Iran but was actually created by Iran if my understanding is correct and Iran infuses something like

three quarters of a billion dollars a year there three quarters of a billion to a billion dollars a year

so you wouldn't want to be Israel being shelved by an enemy across the border with a huge and fusion of cash from Iran which has its own interests in the region so that's not a good

“position to be in and I think one does have to think about what would we do if you know”

China was funding the cartels in Mexico to shell Texas right what exactly would we do so it's not an easy puzzle the answer to that is not obvious and if you think it's obvious it isn't however this does create the pretext for Israel to attempt to drive Shiite Muslims out of southern Lebanon which does pretty easily match the definition of ethnic cleansing ethnic cleansing not being genocide it can be you can have genocide can be the mechanism of ethnic cleansing but here

you have a population that is targeted for removal from an area for reasons that are actually understandable in this case but presumably not all the Shiite Muslims are involved in shelling

northern Israel so in any case I don't like this but the answer is

ethnic cleansing appears to be on the table or the Israeli regime the reasons for it are comprehensible but nonetheless that initial tweet that said you know let this sink in that you might have via Muslims being hidden in the addicts of Christians being hunted by Jews it's worth thinking about so anyway you have that and it deserves a conversation that I don't hear happening and I know has to happen if this is not

just going to be the repeated pattern of history I think we have to realize that all human beings arise from populations that displaced other populations so the potential exists everywhere

there are always reasons for history sometimes there are justifications sometimes those justifications

aren't real and their rationalizations or their the result of false flags designed to provide a causesbelly history is nothing if not complicated but understanding that actually none of us

“are immune to that pattern none of our populations are immune to that pattern is I think a key”

insight in order for us to simply to go forward without saying well you can't raise that accusation against these people because they would never do that well yes and frankly that's a I think that's critical I think that is the crux exactly of what you've just been talking about it reminds me of the objection of many of us to the frankly anti analytical claims made by the Di black lives matter folks around you know you can't if if you are black you cannot be racist

this is it's the same kind of assumption you know you can't you you know if you are if you were

the other that's it's the same error and it's and I think with potentially serious consequences

“in the of cases yeah it's magical thinking and you know maybe I'm now I'm pretty sure I think”

the thing is in any of the discussions that I look back on from my upbringing that I thought were formative and important and model behavior that we are supposed to be engaged in magical thinking is quite an accusation right if you are engaged in magic if somebody says you are engaged in magical thinking they're telling you that whether willfully or because you can't face something you are engaging in illogic with a purpose and I just think I mean frankly

I've always been troubled by the concept of the chosen people it always robs me the wrong way

and not because I don't understand what it is at a biblical level but because everybody's population is special in the eyes of their God and so the idea that this particular claim about God has you know general cachet doesn't add up to me so I don't think any of us on earth are entitled to

“magical thinking when the topic is something as important as ethnic cleansing genocide how to present”

these prevent these patterns that we all agree are about what the solution is in northern Israel

I have no idea but we have to talk about what the problem actually is and what its causes are

in order to hope for a solution in order to pursue a solution that doesn't involve all of this stuff that in our better moments we all understand is aberrant and shouldn't exist all right I will just say before we fully leave this topic that the idea that the Israeli regime is involved in things that in our better moments we all understand are intolerable even with the understanding that they're in a tough spot that none of us have the solution for we have been

drawn into a conflict in Iran the dimensions of which those of us in the public can't understand because we can't see it but the noises that are coming out of our leaders are similarly troubling even if they don't meet the exact patterns that we've been discussing and I just wanted to call attention to this so can you put on that clip of President Trump from the other day thanks to the progress we've made I can say tonight that we are on track to complete

all of America's military objectives shortly very shortly we're going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks we're going to bring them back to the stone ages where they belong okay that kind of rhetoric the idea I mean not only we're going to bring them back to the stone ages where they belong who exactly belongs in the stone ages I mean even if you have your villains who are engaged in the behavior that motivated this war in Iran if even if that's the

story presumably most of the people in the path of these ferocious bombings that he is describing

“are not deserving of going back to the stone age in fact I distinctly remember him telling us”

that part of what we were up to was liberating the people of Iran from their tyrannical regime so if it's the tyrannical regime that justifies the ferocious bombing then it's a tragedy that other people are going to be sent back to the stone ages with them right and it's it's it's not an narrative it's an incoherent set of talking points yeah it's a kind of cheerleading that is completely inappropriate from the perspective of the president and it ain't just him and that

wasn't just one line you want to put up Pete heggsets tweet so Pete heggsets the secretary of war it's back to the stone age so this is a theme in the Trump administration in the midst of a war

was spelled out that would allow us to know what the victory conditions were the explanation for

why we're there has dodged and weaved and now we're talking about bombing people back to the stone age and then further you have a did I send you a tweet rather than it makes it much more difficult to have any hope that the people on the so-called other side are going to grow up and figure out what's true because they're fighting against something that is increasingly incoherent and unnecessarily just across the board aggressive yeah across the board aggressive and sabre rattling to use a

weird term to have on this side of the equation but okay sabre rattling from the highest

echelons of government put up the White House's tweet so this actually came from the White House

“account says remember when I gave around around 10 days to make a deal or open up the”

straightive form moves or the homo straight time is running out 48 hours before all hell will rain down on them glory be to God and then that's a quote from Trump yeah and they scroll down you can see here here's Trump on true social time is running out 48 hours before all hell will rain down on them glory be to God well I don't even know what to say here he is invoking God as he's threatening to rain hell down on the Iranians without the sense that there are innocent people

innocent people who he used as a pretext early on in this conflict it's so bizarre and unacceptable that I don't even know what to say about it but I guess the point is you know what we are the

“descendants of chimp-like ancestors we've had six million years to get over our pure chimpiness”

and become something with the potential to not do that chimp stuff and we're close enough to it that we fall back in that direction very easily and if you just recognize what we are and what we've accomplished and the fact that you can walk out and you can go to the market and you can buy some food and bring it home and cook it from your family and not be thinking about whether barbarians are going to break down your door and you know rape your family and take your stuff

we live better than this we can't let ourselves fall back into these prior modes because the fact is as flawed as our system is it is testing a whole other world right if we were smart we would be trying to protect the alternative to this lineage versus lineage displacement stuff at all costs there's just no comparison to the quality of life under these two different rubrics and yet as I said at the beginning of this conflict as I said just after October 7th we are in

danger of all being dragged back into lineage against lineage violence based on the fact that these two worlds come together in the Middle East and it was very unwise of us to get involved in a conflict with no clear exit strategy that immediately involves the entire world economy and therefore puts everybody on the map with respect to who they want to win and what way and this was reckless and to hear the most base motivations being phrased by our secretary of war and our president

oughta stop everybody in their tracks where are we how do we get here and how do we get out

as quickly as possible that's the question maybe it is always true that if you've got

two party system two obvious sides that both of them will tend to be looking their worst at the same

“time I don't know if that is the case but it feels like that's what we've got right now and so”

given everything that you just went through there's a part of me that feels like I don't know if I want to go after the wash and state demonstrates right now on the other hand they're ludicrous and they're they're decreasing our quality of life and making no sense and and seeming to have no idea that that is what they were doing and so we are left as Americans with no place to turn right neither the red team nor the

blue team are coherent at this point well actually if I can just put one more nuance in the connection

at global scale and we are living the breakdown of the thing that works here locally it's

“across scales and it reflects something that I think people need to spend a more time thinking about”

is the West just simply targeted for destruction by something because it's happening at every scale and that could be the result of something organic or it could it could not it may be that it's systematic well when you see it's happening at every scale I think that's confusing because it's happening in opposite directions in many places and you know it may be true that it's happening at every scale I'm not even sure exactly what what that means but that sounds like

it's happening in the same way at all these different scales and in fact what you know what we're

seeing with regard to what you're talking about out of the you know executive branch and the DOD I insist you know feels feels like a particularly you know chest thumping

“chimpy kind of approach that that we all recognize but then was happening at for instance”

in the state of Washington in the you know the very strongly blue legislature is something that is newer but anyone who's been listening to us or just paying attention or you know in academia or or the arts or you know HR or you know practically any place since at least you know 2017 knows that it's it's a different kind of attack on the West and it and it you know this this is this is the one that looks you know like so now we've got we've got all the toxicities you know

we've we've got the the silly overly empathic you know suicidal empathic kind of empathy as we'll talk about briefly here coming out of the Dems and we've got the you know the traditional toxic KELOMAL blasting back to the Stone Age kind of you know masculinity that is also by far

“in neither case the best of what the feminine of the masculine can offer humans so”

oh that's an interesting point yeah no that's really good yeah we're watching the male and the female failure mode simultaneously and they're happening at two different scales which would actually maybe be expected and in part you know in part Trump was elected this last time with our help excuse me as a pushback against the toxic feminization of so many of our systems and not not not just the feminization but the toxic feminine and that is not to say that there isn't

a place for the good feminine in functional systems just there's a place for the good masculine in functional systems but the you know you'd use Godzard's term the suicidal empathy that has rendered so many people incompetent and destroyed systems out of service to like oh let's just help the other no matter what no matter what kind of harm I impart on myself and those I supposedly love is is what we have been dealing with since you know at least for for 10 years

whereas the you know blasting back to the Stone Age has been happening since the Stone Age and longer right like that's that's that's more than six minutes since before we we branched off

from the from the prototypes six million years or so yes so okay last episode we talked about

the new millionaires talks that the the the Washington State Legislature voted in and that Ferguson Governor Ferguson signed recently and about a whole other suite of taxes that are that are new while we're seeing quality of life go down cost of living go up you know all of this in the state of Washington now but there's another bill that passed the legislation this year that Governor Ferguson signed on March 18th that expands who can get jobs into law in law enforcement in both in law enforcement

and in well I'll I'll read some sections of it but a friend of ours who yes has moved Idaho from Washington mentioned to me a few months ago that this was moving through Legislature a little while ago and I thought oh god I will that you know that's too stupid that won't pass but no indeed as of March 18th as I said the governor has signed it through so let me just actually share share some highlighted bits it's it's it's not a super long document here it goes and

grossed Senate Bill 5068 again effective March 18th 206 so the short version is it is an act relating to agencies firefighters prosecutors and general or limited authority law enforcement

to work in the United States under federal law and then I also highlighted this another thing

“that this does is declares an emergency now I read the whole thing and I don't see the”

declaration of emergency nor do I especially nor do I specifically see what the emergency might be that warrants this so that's confusing a little bit in this in this bill so what are they doing be and be enacted by the Legislature of the State of Washington again this just happened last month a general authority Washington law enforcement agency or limited authority Washington law enforcement

agency may consider the application of a citizen of the United States which has always been the case

or a lawful permanent resident for any office place position or employment within the agency that is until this law was passed you're required to be a citizen of the United States in order to apply for and get a position in either a general authority Washington law enforcement agency or limited that is to say either a peace officer or a I'm forgetting what what the name of the officer is for people who work in in like prisons but so either you know corrections corrections officer

yes so peace officer corrections officer you do not need to be a citizen anymore to apply for or perhaps to get such a job but you do need to be a lawful permanent resident okay

see no justification for why are they oh is it maybe because they defund the police and so

made police and corrections officers work so heinous that tons of people took early retirement and lots of good people who might have gone into the field decided against it because it all you do is receive hate from the people who who you live amongst yeah that could be it but is the answer to let non citizens be doing the job of police policing policing citizens I'm not convinced

“but it gets worse did you have something to say yeah I just wanted to point out I think you”

caught up to it at the end wasn't just the defunding of the police what we witnessed what we witnessed on the ground was that the local government actually backed the people who were demonizing and threatening the police yeah from the beginning and so you know to have you know literal advocating of the murder of cops sprayed on you know public buildings to have you know burning an effigy pigs in front of the courthouse right all of these as we covered extensively

the text suddenly back in 2020 it was utterly grotesque it was grotesque but the point is it resulted in the police and you know the police also experienced a kind of jeopardy from the fact that if the population is of a mood that all cops are bastards then the last thing you want to do is be a cop on the scene of some contentious something or other where something goes wrong you get sued you know it's not a safe situation so I think what we watched in Portland was the police kind

of stopped enforcing the law they stopped showing up they wouldn't answer the phone and you know I mean 9/11 calls were going unanswered or taking you know upwards of an hour to be responded yeah even for things like a home invasions and stuff it was insane so you know the point is if there's an emergency we don't have enough cops and it's forcing us to this guess whose bill that goes on right and so you know as I say this you know this not very long document 12 pages

“doesn't specify it says there's an emergency and that's how we're doing this but it doesn't”

specify what the emergency is and the emergency of course is caused by the very people who are enacting this into law who voted this into law by by encouraging hatred of police and by

basically requiring that they not be able to do to you know the neighborhoods are now so unsafe

in urban places in Washington state the police have no chance of of making a difference so what's the answer well let's bring in people who aren't citizens again in this in this particular section specify citizens or lawful permanent residents okay which I think I think means green cards okay that's section one um section two employees whose primary job function is to provide for the custody safety and security of adult persons and state correctional facilities or local jails

must be a citizen of the United States or a person who is legally authorized to work in the United States under federal law so peace officers have to be citizens or green card holders corrections officers have to be citizens or just be legally authorized to work this is a step down

authorized to work who are not considered permanent residents so now you have corrections officers

“who people who can apply to be corrections officers who are simply legally authorized to work”

but are not even making any claim as to whether or not they intend to live here permanently and not citizens okay um the prosecuting attorney so now we're here we are in not not not police not peace and corrections officers but prosecutor's offices the prosecuting attorney may appoint one or more deputies who shall have the same power in all respects as their principal each appointment shall be in writing signed by the prosecuting attorney and filed in the county

auditor's office each deputy thus appointed shall have the same qualifications required of the

prosecuting attorney except that's such deputy need not be a resident of the county in which

he or she serves nor qualified elected therein each deputy appointed must be a citizen of the

“United States or a and here they've got it crossed out lawful permanent resident no they've changed it”

or a person who is legally authorized to work in the United States under federal law so once again we have not only are we expanding who can work in the prosecuting attorney's office to people beyond citizens but what was originally proposed was to lawful permanent residents no let's expand it further into people who are merely legally authorized to work with no indication that they have applied to be permanent residents or that they intend to be permanent residents

it gets it now it takes a surprising turn so that like this is what I thought was going to be in here it's shocking it is there is no way that an emergency especially if they're on making or it's this but what you have is you continue to scroll down at this document is employees of pro oh this is actually this is the same again employees of prosecuting attorneys offices must be a citizen of the United States or a person who is legally authorized to work in the United

States under federal law again that just repeating the same thing that lower standard not just the originally lower standard of citizen or green called green card holder but citizen or must be legally allowed to work I just also want to highlight that actually there is no reason to include citizen in that sentence because the point is you're including the higher standard and then you're saying there's a lower standard and the point is citizens are included in that category

already so it's almost functioning as a kind of cloak as if oh it's mostly citizens but who knows what these people are up to maybe you do because you've seen further down here but no um I mean I

“don't object that I think I think illegal document should be clear and refer to what has happened”

before and so you may have redundancy on the basis that what it what this used to be restricted to with citizens and now it citizens and you know I'm frankly I'm grateful for it because it it shows us what has been done and in fact that strike through earlier on shows us how it's explicitly what has been done here okay but oops um what goes here in section seven is is surprising to help prevent misconduct enhance peace officer and corrections officer accountability through

the imposition of sanctions commensurate to the wrong doing when misconduct occurs and enhance public trust and confidence in the criminal justice system so here what we're doing this section is about making sure that these people who may or may not be citizens whom we have hired behave themselves we've got a bunch of things okay I'm not going to go through all of them but they can't have been convicted of a felony offense a gross misdemeanor domestic violence offense

etc but here's what else goes on on the commission may deny suspend or revoke certification

or require remedial training of an applicant or officer if the applicant or officer several conditions included in which is this engaged in conduct including but not limited to verbal statements writings online posts recordings and gestures involving prejudice or discrimination against a person on the basis of race religion creed color national origin immigration status disability genetic information marital status sex gender gender identity gender expression age

sexual orientation or military and veteran status a gesture yeah that is considered to be dismissive of someone's regiant sense of themselves as a man if they are actually a woman or vice versa is sufficient to get you reprimanded or perhaps fired if you are a peace officer or a

to not have you considered where the job well that does seem very modern Washingtonian

“it's unbelievable and then just to get back to the question about emergency at the very end of”

the document this act is necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace health or safety or support of the state government and its existing public institutions and takes effect immediately as far as I can tell is the extent of their discussion of what the emergency is that they have claimed is the reason that they need to enact this which again they are enacting this on an emergency basis because of an emergency that they have not named which allows non-citizens

they have to be legally employable in the United States to have peace officer roles in the state of Washington corrections officers roles in the state of Washington and to work under the prosecuting

attorney in the state of Washington and for the second two they need not be permanent residents they

need only be eligible lawfully eligible to work in the United States however if they or anyone

“citizen or not says something mean on social media or makes a gesture that is interpretable as”

offensive by anyone including the delusional people who are busy thinking that there's something they're not then they can lose their jobs what kind of crazy are we living in yeah that's insane because for one thing okay you've got people who are not citizens who are being trained in you don't actually have the right to speak freely that's interesting right we say things on this program all the time that I'm sure would be used as a justification there's no hate in us we are simply

analyzing the situation and a gas to when it is ridiculous yeah but so you're you're training a population out of thinking that this is actually a right that does belong to citizens and I mean you've said it several times but I just think to the extent that there is an emergency it is that we cannot staff these positions the law enforcement officers are not showing up in light of the rate of pay and the hazardous nature of the work and the abuse that they take and

because when they tried to do their jobs they were shut down right because the government participated in emboldening those who were demonizing them and jeopardizing them I mean like literally launching BBs with wrist rockets and stuff like that so of course nobody wants those jobs so you've created an emergency where a rational person won't take this job at the rate of pay which does again raise the issue from last live stream where we talked about okay you've got

these incredibly high taxes why are the services so crappy where is the money going yeah the answer is okay you allow these people to be demonized actually there is an appropriate way to address the emergency which is to make the pay consummate with the horrible job that you've now created for them you're not doing that so what are you gonna do oh you're gonna find another population that has you know sufficient vulnerability and privation that they'll take the job

that no rational American would take right so the point is at what point do you become responsible for this insane consequences of your own stupid actions right it's like the right response to this is to make sure that emergency doesn't continue it doesn't happen again to go back and figure out how it was that these local governments tolerated the demonizing of their own police right how

did that happen how can we make sure that never happens again can't we all agree that that was

insane and that that was the cause of the problem apparently not apparently they're just I mean it's like you know bumping the age of enlistment up for the military because you know you don't have enough people signing up for the adventures you signed up for abroad you mean down oh you mean

“the maximum yeah the maximum age that was elevated by I think five years recently”

anyway so yeah finding a new population lowering the IQ requirements for soldiers in order to get more it's like look and the PMI change in the PMI requirements yeah right it's just things is bonkers you've got a system you're supposed to like limit your actions to the things you're

actually capable of dealing with you're supposed to protect the stuff that's essential to its

functioning this isn't hard you just you people are just too crazy to to understand what you're supposed to do or to care yeah and you know so this bill has gotten some attention online as oh they're letting illegal immigrants into the peace officer positions well now that's not happening that's not that's not what this allows for one thing of the three categories of work that are

well guess it's opening up it's opening up to permanent residents only and the other two the other two

“classes of work are opening up further to people who are you know lawfully allowed to work in the”

United States that doesn't include illegal immigrants so that's that's not what this is and it's not it's it's unhelpful to have these conversations explode in directions that are untrue because all you have to do is figure out that they're untrue and it makes you easy to dismiss so okay you know we both of these things we've talked about today like we just can we can we can we stop it with the toxicity can we stop it with a really stupid ways of being male and female and human but you know

we just have two really clear examples here of the you know old school chimpy toxic masculine and the new school HR I don't know high school toxic feminine and they're both they're

both beyond beyond dangerous actually and it's always been easy to point to the leg blown back the

Stone Age is dangerous and it's harder it's been harder to make people aware that the the toxic feminine is actually extraordinarily dangerous too but it is they both are we are being we are having the West undermined from under us and we are being given no good choices there are no good options here this is this is not the way to do it claim an emergency that you created and then change the rules of engagement including telling people that if they you know look at

someone funny they could lose their job no that's because what their feelings were hurt that's not that's not how we live that's that's not go back to the first amendment look at it think about it live it and consider whether or not your feelings being hurt might not actually be something

“that you have to deal with as opposed to the person who you think are your feelings with respect”

both of these topics it again goes back to this thing which is now I'm only said you and I present it for a long time which is that the failure of people to encounter systems abroad that don't work right if you haven't seen a country in which governance does not function it's very hard to understand what danger you're in by undermining the system you've got and we're watching the system that we have either systematically targeted because some powerful force doesn't like the rights of

people in the West which I think is happening and we're also seeing it hollowed out from within by people who do not understand that they are effectively sinking a ship on which they are depending to keep them from drowning and both of these things are insane it's very hard to make this

point if people imagine that things kind of work because they always have right they work

because of systems you didn't build and you don't understand and the alternative to those systems is so much worse that if you did understand what you were risking by tampering with them in this way you wouldn't consider it for a second because you're not you're not going to know how to function in the absence of these things that's right unfortunately I think it might be yeah yep in better news I didn't know there wasn't he it's our it's our youngest child's

20th birthday today we don't have teenagers anymore that's not the good news it's that feels weird but happy birthday to Toby hey Toby have a birthday he won't be watching no and good on yeah his generation doesn't do podcast and if they did he probably wouldn't be watching this one because he knows awkward oh he he also knows yes that's true um but we'll be back on Wednesday for I don't know we're gonna find something at least one piece of something awesome to talk about

“not toxic anything that's what we're gonna find we're gonna find something as no”

that's a challenge on it all right I think we're up to yeah okay I'm on it okay excellent so check out our sponsors this week which were I don't even remember Felix yes Barbara

and crowd help that's did I do it that is exactly right all amazing I wouldn't use them all at once

but but they're all they're all fantastic products or services you figured out do I I think if you took a little armor of a four bed went to sleep on your helix mattress wall knowing that you were protected by the crowd if you had a medical order knowing that you were protected okay I could sleep better yeah yeah yeah yeah use it once you have my blessing and I assume

be good to the ones you love eat good food and get outside be well everyone you