A Killing in Midtown

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He stepped out from behind the SUV. He knew exactly what he was doing. There's no hesitation. Inside the case of Luigi Mangione.

“Accused in the brazen murder of health care CEO Brian Thompson.”

Brian was a lifelong friend. He was a wonderful person. A great father. A close friend of the victim. And two detectives involved in the man hunt.

Speaking out for the first time.

This is a lot of urgency. This guy took somebody's life. He's dangerous. When he lowered the mask. That's when we were like, "Oh, we got something here." The eyebrows were quite distinguishing.

They looked like the CEO here. People were trying to learn who this person was. This was like an all-American boy. They walked in the door and all the girls turned their head. The Luigi I met that night wouldn't be capable of what he's accused of.

This was targeted. He allegedly had writings about health care.

“I cannot understand how this person is seen as a hero.”

What does it say if violence is being celebrated? What does it say about our country? A notorious murder here on the streets of New York, sparking buffuri and fascination. New detail said where the case might go from here.

Unless her hold and this is daylight. Here is a killing in Midtown. In the pre-dont darkness of December 4, 2024 on the mostly empty Manhattan streets one man was up and ready for what was sure to be a busy day.

No shock to me that Brian was up in the first one deriving at that hotel.

Brian Thompson, the CEO of United Healthcare, was walking into this Hilton Hotel for the company's annual Investors Conference. Jeff Alter is his friend in former colleague. In your industry, this is a big game.

Really our one opportunity to show who we are and what we're planning on doing in the upcoming year. Jeff says the all-day conference required months of preparation. And Brian likely would have been working late the night before. I knew how tough those days were and I had texted Brian

from the train, you know, good luck today. You texted him a note of encouragement. Yep. Did he respond? He didn't.

What his friend didn't know was that someone else had also been preparing for this day. Brian was walking into a trap. Did he sense the man approaching? In a flash of violence, the paths of these two strangers intersected. The mass man fired three shots before fleeing.

Leaving Brian to die on the sidewalk. Breaking news of shooting in Midtown. Fifteen year old Brian Thompson was shot multiple times. Detective still on the scene. The response was immediate and intense.

Police searching for that brazen gunman. A shooting in Midtown Manhattan. The victim of prominent business man. And a gunman on the loose. I was still on the train and I was getting text from former colleagues at first

just saying I can't believe what happened to Brian. My first inclination was, did he get sick? Did he get fired? Then he read the headlines. Just devastated.

Yeah, I feel like he was in a wrong place the wrong time. Maybe it got mud or something like that. But police quickly had a different take. Was your initial hunch targeted? Yeah.

Hundred percent. Detective Sergeant John Griffin, now retired, was the senior sergeant of the NYPD's major case squad at the time.

He says the NYPD acts as that security video of the murder almost immediately. And it told a story. We stepped out from behind the the SUV. New exactly what he was doing. There was no hesitation.

We looked like he was waiting for the victim. This wasn't a mugging that led to the shooting. No. But it is very similar to a lot of narcotics related homicides that we've dealt with. Which can be targeted.

Absolutely. This is in the NYPD's wheelhouse. This is what we do. You have a crime scene unit that comes out. They have to take photos of everything.

They have to block things off. Retired NYPD detective Joe Mitsopoulas was on the team that worked the case. Trying to figure out who would target the 50-year-old father of two from Minnesota. You start widening your canvas.

And the canvas is basically checking the area for evidence.

Now evidence would be shell caseings. They would be cameras and witnesses that kind of stuff. That initial canvas made clear that the murderer Brian Thompson had nothing to do with his personal lives. The motive was right here on the sidewalk. Two spent bullet shells, a third unfired round.

Each and scribe with a different word. Delay. Depose. Deny. I was like, whoa.

Okay. It's not just a shooting on the street. Lorena O'Neill is a contributing writer at Rolling Stone. She has been reporting on the case from the beginning. Starting with a story told by those three words.

Which are words that are commonly used to criticize how the health insurance industry handles claims. It's suggesting that the pattern that they typically take. Right.

“It was the first important clue for investigators.”

It definitely meant it was targeted. It definitely meant that it probably had some sort of a relationship. Relation to health care system. The murder instantly transformed into something much bigger. A national venting of anger and frustration over the health care system.

This was a man. This was a father of two. But in the discourse he's being dehumanized. I think what ended up happening is the victim became the villain. He has become a symbol.

As did Luigi Manjiani. Tonight we have new insights into the two men at the center of it all. He was very proud of where he came from. Very humble. I really think that the Luigi I met that night was still a normal person.

That wouldn't be capable of what he's accused of. I think millions of people see some of themselves in Manjiani, and that's why they love him so much. We'll take an exclusive look inside the manhood.

“Sometimes the best thing to do was go backwards.”

You were following a trail of the opposite direction. Right. And try to answer the central question. What might have set the collision chorus of these two men in motion?

That's a million dollar question, right?

I did healthcare. CEO Brian Thompson had been gunned down on the street in Manhattan. And now the NYPD was hunting for a killer. What did you fear that might happen if you didn't get the shooter in custody? Quickly. A lot of people thought that there might be more to come.

And almost immediately it was clear this was no normal murder case. Online sympathy was not with the victim. Of course, people have no sympathy for the CEO of the United Health Care. They're tired of CEOs making millions of dollars while their family members are not being taken care of properly.

I don't think anyone should feel bad about this. Social media is fast and cruel. People posting smiley faces that somebody was murdered. Just just beyond me. Cruel is the word he used.

Really cruel. Particularly for people who knew Brian.

Jeff Alter is the first person in Brian Thompson's inner circle to speak publicly about the case.

He wants people to know more about the man he got to know over some 20 years. A man who rose to corporate CEO from Small Town Kid.

“I owe a farm boy, was that something he wore as a badge of honor?”

Yes, he was very proud of where he came from. Very humble, particularly proud of his father, a hard-working farmer, who, even at the end of the long tough day, gave back to his town. Brian was valedictorian in high school, and at the University of Iowa, where he studied business administration and accounting on a full scholarship.

He married his high school sweetheart, joined a prestigious corporate accounting firm in Minneapolis, and the couple had two boys.

Iowa, still tugging at his sleeve.

He wanted to be all things for all people.

“I think he thought that this was a wonderful opportunity for him to better the life of his children,”

and he'd asked me, is he doing the right thing for his children? Should they move back? But Brian was on a fast track to the top. Was he the kind of guy that people looked at and said he's going to be CEO someday? We'd all say yeah, he could be.

Brian did become CEO of United Healthcare in 2021. Hi, I'm Brian Thompson. Here he is making a presentation at a healthcare leadership forum. Our mission in values are focused on helping people of healthier lives, and making the health system work better for everyone.

In just two years as CEO, he aggressively expanded the company.

The biggest health insurer in the country covering nearly 50 million people.

Even as the company face criticism for patient coverage, profits rose more than 30 percent to over $16 billion. We're thrilled to be the presenting sponsors. Brian also engaged in philanthropy and was named an honorary co-chair of the Special Olympics. He was beyond just being a super smart, driven person.

He was a great person to be around. The investor's conference was another chance to boost the company, but Brian didn't make it there. And now his killer was on the run. We referred you at lost him at that point.

No, we just hadn't found him. He's there, we're going to find something. Investigators studied clues from the scene. Those inscribed cartridges and that CCTV video of the murder. What do you know about the weapon that he used?

We could tell right away that it was some sort of a semi-automatic. It had something on the front either like a homemade suppressor or silencer type of thing. There's got a common thing that you uncover people with silencers? No, 25 years I don't think I've ever actually encountered a silencer before that. From the get-go, tips flood it in.

Major K-squad detective Joe Metzopolis ran down some of the 300-plus leads. They varied and paid that's my next or neighbor or this person has a vendetta against the healthcare system. We had tons of them. The FBI helped out with a lot of the out-of-state tips because we were getting tips from all over the country.

“Do you remember any in particular that stood out to you?”

There's one that I remember where it was a family's young child had died, waiting for authorization for some sort of treatment. Others were a spouses passed away and treatment was either denied or deemed not necessary. They were horrible to read. These people were fingering someone who they thought had a big enough of a grudge.

Usually. Did you commit violence? Yeah. When they were legitimate tips, you had to make sure that that person wasn't here in New York when it's happened. Those tips didn't lead anywhere, but something else did.

You can't be on guard 24/7. There's going to be little slip ups. But that's where you count on is the slip up, exactly. Hey guys, Willie Guys here reminding you to check out the Sunday Sit Down podcast. On this week's episode, I get together with the multi-talented Mindy Kaling

to talk about her beginnings on the office. Her hit creation running point and her latest series Not Suitable for Work. You can get our conversation for free. Wherever you get download your podcasts. Rock and roll royalty spent Sunday mornings with Willie Guys.

This summer, hall McCartney, Keith Richards. And this weekend, Mick Jagger.

“Do you still get that thrill or those nerves on the eve of an album really?”

Yeah, you do. You want them to stay notice, you know? This Sunday morning, I'll Sunday today with Willie Guys on NBC. [Music] Four detectives trying to track down Brian Thompson's killer.

They're most powerful investigative tool was practically staring them in the face.

Inside, taxi cabs, trains, buses, and on the streets. So we're actually not far from the shooting, but we're at a different intersection and Manhattan right now. We're being observed. All over us, everywhere. Cameras.

Yep. John Griffin took us on to Manhattan's streets and showed us how the NYPD built a video timeline of the man hunt. So that's control by the New York City police. Correct. And any detectives can get that from their desk.

So something happens here. The case detectives going to look at that camera from his desk and figure out where you went.

that have video. And where they lose you, they're going to go to those videos and try to pick you up and they're just going to keep going. They keep laying in the pizza. They're just going to keep going forward, forward, forward. And there's almost nowhere to hide in the city, Lester.

I remember us reviewing tons of the cameras that are always on the corners like that just following.

You know, for a little bit of a second, I've all captured and then it led to another block and then to another block. As investigators search for the shooter, they did something that sounds counterintuitive. Most people want to look forward where did the guy go? How do you get away? Let's find it.

“For an investigation, sometimes the best thing to do is go backwards.”

You were following a trail with the opposite direction. Right, for the days before the murder. Somebody commits a crime and they just want to get out of there. And they'll do whatever they can, not to be tracked. Sometimes the 12 hours before that, they may not be thinking about the crime.

And you can't be on guard 24/7. There's going to be little slip ups. But that's where you count on is the slip-up. Exactly.

Here is the shooter before the murder.

Emerging from a subway station and pacing what would become the crime scene. Investigators tracked him backwards, camera by camera to a Starbucks, and to a hostel on Manhattan's Upper West Side. And that's where the slip-up happened. A camera captured an image of the suspect with his mask lowered,

exposing his face. That was the one we were smiling.

“That's when we were like, "We got something here to run with."”

Authorities say these clear photos are of the person of interest taken at the hostel. They also got a name. The suspect had checked in to the hostel as Mark Rosario. To find this Mark Rosario now, they went back to a Daisy chain of video clips

taken after the murder tracking his escape. It was some really good interesting video of him as he left the scene. And then the bike up north into Central Park. Camera's don't capture the whole of Central Park about two and a half miles long. But experienced investigators soon picked up the trail.

It eventually tracked him up into Northern Manhattan. So your band ends the bike at some point? Yeah. The last place that we had video of him was up near the Port Authority bus terminal by the GW Bridge.

“Then it was like, "All right, what are we going to do now?”

Where do we get to the end bin?" That's where we wanted. But his trail went cold. Days tick by. And online, his support was growing.

Activists set up a legal defense fund for the unnamed suspect.

When did you first become aware that this figure was becoming something

of a folk hero? There was some talk of that from right in the beginning. And you react to it, though, that people would think of him as a do gutter as opposed to a murder suspect. It didn't sit well. NYPD detectives routinely look at people that die either from homicides or accidents on the street.

And you see the fragility of life. You cannot sanctify somebody who does this. You can make them a hero. Five days after the murder, Brian Thompson's family and friends gathered under heavy guard at a church in Minnesota.

It was a private invitation only funeral. Jeff Altzer couldn't be there, but says he's heart broke for Brian's family. His wife, his children, his mother, is who had just lost her husband not too long before that. And now she's losing one of her sons. The law enforcement presence included a sniper on the roof.

A recognition of the public sediments surrounding Brian's murder. It was also a reminder that the suspect was still out there, but not for long. You look like the CEO here. I'm pure. An arrest was coming along with a fascination about how this young man ended up accused of murder.

They walked in the door and I was sent all the girls like, you know, turn their head looked in them. Like who's this new guy? What Brian Thompson's family was laying him to arrest on that same day, a thousand miles away. Number one, what is the address of your emergency? The manager of a McDonald's in Altuna, Pennsylvania, called 911.

Um, it's not really an emergency. I have a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of. A young man was eating breakfast alone. You look like the CEO here. I'm pure.

A patrol unit arrived to officers approached with body cams rolling.

He's got a driver's license and says, "Rosario."

And I'm like, "You Jersey driver's license?" The name on the idea matched the name of the man who dropped his mask. Get that man hat and hostile. But officers on the scene suspected it was a fake decision. The name on the idea matched the name of the man who dropped his mask.

Get that man hat and hostile. But officers on the scene suspected it was a fake idea and pressed him for his real name, which he told them. Luigi Mangione. He was arrested and extradited to New York.

The spectacle of his arrival by helicopter escorted by the mayor and a failing civil law enforcement only intensifying the public's infatuation, free Luigi. It is beautiful, I rose.

“They didn't know that America was going to be rude for the assassin, right?”

They got it, they got it, they got it.

I try, but I cannot understand how this person is seen as a hero. I try not to, but I lose some faith in humanity. We've all been trying to figure out who Luigi Mangione really is. How are you getting any closer? I've been working on it for about a year, and I still don't know that I have everything.

Lorena O'Neill has interviewed more than 30 sources, family members, friends, and law enforcement trying to untangle Mangione's life. And she shared her reporting with us. From everything that I've heard about him, from his friends and family, he was just a friendly guy who didn't stand out

as controversial or troubled or anything like that. He wasn't the stereotypical, oh, he was quiet and kept himself, he engaged people. No, he wasn't an outsider, he was social, he had friends. She learned that I'm like Brian Thompson,

“Mangione was born into a life of wealth and privilege.”

His family owned businesses, including a country club, assisted living facilities, and a radio station. Mangione was raised in suburban Baltimore, the youngest of three.

The teachers I spoke with at Gilman were saying we always thought he'd end up

making some scientific discoveries and technological advance for society. You mentioned Gilman, this isn't a lead high school. Very lead high school. Within the people that went to Gilman, he was known to be amongst the smartest. And Mangione had something in common with Brian Thompson.

He was valeditorion of his class. It's been incredible journey, and I simply can't imagine the last few years with any other group of guys. Thank you. Mangione got an Ivy League education and computer science and engineering. In 2022, he relocated to Hawaii,

moving in with a techie co-living community called Surf Break, and worked as a data engineer for an online car marketplace. He was working remotely by all accounts. He was a very outdoorsy person, and he enjoyed the lifestyle in Hawaii that he could have, as a community of digital nomads.

He spilled his life out online under the Mr. Cactus Reddit Hand, who widely believed to be his. There were posts about gaming and travel, and about his health. He was also at the time suffering with some kind of back ailment.

Yes, he had been complaining of back problems ever since he was in middle school, and it seemed to get worse when he was in Hawaii. This post said it went bad to the point where I felt it every day. I trained in India, trained in a little yoga therapy. I'm good at dealing with people with injuries.

Dorian Wright teaches yoga in Honolulu. I remember when Luigi came in, because he was a good-looking guy. He walked in the door and all the girls turned their head looked at him. "Who's this new guy?" He said, "Hey, my name's Luigi. I said, "Oh, nice to meet you. I'll take care of you."

“You know, he's such a mystery to so many people. What was your impression?”

Just a normal guy, like a normal, young, happy, you know, kind of grace smile. Nothing out of the ordinary. Was he making friends? Yeah, I heard he made a lot of friends. I know he was on Tinder because he matched up with one of our yoga teachers.

Dorian said he worked with Mangione off and on for about a year. How was his back? Was he improving? Definitely, yeah. He felt great. He said he felt way better after he did it all. Class with me. But as helpful as the yoga was, Mangione's back problems didn't go away.

In the summer of 2023, he quit his job, a traveled home for surgery to fuse two vertebrae, posting x-ray images of spinal scaffolding.

A post said a week later, he was on literally zero pain meds and was able to sit, walk, and stand for as long as he wanted. Did he ever in your presence mention healthcare?

No, he never mentioned healthcare.

The topic of healthcare doesn't seem to add up. No, because he came from a wealthy family. And I also heard he was able to pay his health bills. So it doesn't make sense. What's his political ideology?

His family, I would say, leaned conservative as far as Mangione. His political views were a little bit more all over the map. I would say he seems to be more of a centrist. And he seemed to, from some people that I've spoken with, be a fan of RFK Jr. While in Hawaii, Mangione also helped start a book club.

Mangione is an avid reader. He analyzes the books that he reads. He talks about them a lot.

One of the books taken up by the club was the Unibommer Ted Kizinski's manifesto,

a provocative text challenging our corporate industrial society. There were some initial reports that the book club was disbanded after they read the Unibommer's manifesto. And what my reporting has shown is no, it just kind of faded away. It wasn't like this big fight at the book club.

One of the book club members I spoke with said,

“honestly, it was just an excuse to watch the sunset.”

This story seems to really confirm this same frustration that we keep hearing over and over again, trying to find something that at least helps us understand who he is as a suspect and potentially a killer. Right. And I think that people can go back into his life and say, it was this. It was the back pain. It was Ted Kizinski.

I have found that people sort of use him as a voir-shark test for what they feel like is happening in the world. If what was happening in Mangione's mind is a mystery, maybe these handwritten notes hold a clue. He says it had to be done.

Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming. In early 2024, the investors conference, it would bring Brian Thompson to New York was many months away. Halfway around the world, Louie G. Mangione decided to go from digital no man to just no man.

He had told a friend he wanted to get away for a little bit. He was in Japan, he was entirely in and he was in India. He said he was just traveling. Christian Sikini is a pro soccer player in Thailand. In mid-2024, he was with a friend in a bar in Bangkok.

When Mangione heard them speaking English and struck up a conversation. My initial impression was that he's just a backpacker going through Asia. As they chatted over beers that evening, he says they touched on computer games, the volcanoes in Hawaii, and healthcare in Thailand. I told a story about how I went to the hospital to get a MRI in the X-ray,

and I had zero insurance, and after I go get the bill, it was about $180. And he couldn't believe it.

“So that's what kind of sparked the conversation about health insurance in the US.”

He says Mangione had opinions about America's for-profit system. The way he spoke about the healthcare system is the same way anyone I meet. That's living abroad speaks about it, honestly, including myself. The healthcare system in the US is different than other countries. In a not a good way.

Nothing he said seemed angry or resentful. From Thailand, Mangione went to Japan, where he told an acquaintance he wanted to zen out. He ventured to the remote mountainous Nara region, popular with people seeking spiritual enlightenment and solitude.

So he's in Asia, he's not as communicative as he had been. What was he doing? He was reaching out to bloggers and authors who spoke about political tribalism, asking how can we build community, how can we create more discourse, how can we connect?

“Would it be overstatement to say he was becoming a bit of an activist?”

I don't know if I would say activist, but I do think he was perhaps seeking a solution to a problem that he saw. I've heard all kinds of theories. He's in Thailand, he got radicalized, all these things. I have no idea.

Everyone's talking about it though.

Everybody says that's a million dollar question, right?

In August, the 26 year old Mangione flew back to Hawaii, packed up his life there, and made his way to San Francisco.

When you say good dark, you mean in terms of his ideologies or dark, in terms of we haven't heard from him. Go dark in terms of we haven't really heard from him. He does make a bank withdrawal in San Francisco in August, and then after the end of August,

we do not know where he is. Some of his friends have told me that his family was reaching out to them. In the fall saying, "Have you heard from Luigi?" We've lost touch with him. We don't know where he is.

His mother files a missing person's report in November. Some clues to what Mangione might have been doing in those months come from this red notebook, at least found in his backpack when he was arrested. It contains dated handwritten entries.

What are some of the things in here that you think may represent major flags?

“I think it's interesting to look at this excerpt from August 15th”

that says the details are finally coming together.

I don't feel any doubt about whether it's right or justified. I'm glad in a way that I procrastinated because it allowed me to learn more about UHC. So this is where we see UHC specifically named. Around the time of Mangione's writings,

United Healthcare faced a wave of negative publicity, criticized for high-claimed denials while profits were increasing. The company tells Daydeline its rate of denials is substantially lower than what's been reported. Mangione doesn't specify what he learned about United Healthcare,

but prosecutors say the writings reference the company's upcoming investors' conference. He says, "What do you do? You whack the CEO at the annual parasitic being counter-convention. It's targeted, precise, and doesn't risk innocence.

Most importantly, the point becomes self-evident." It's pretty chilling. It is. A few weeks later, CEO Brian Thompson was murdered and Mangione was under arrest.

I mean, I was shocked. I was like, "He didn't seem like kind of guy. I would do something like that." The Luigi I met that night was still a normal person that wouldn't be capable of what he's accused of.

There is eight months to where the murder happened, so I don't know what happened after. How Luigi Mangione might have changed from regular guy to what prosecutors describe as a brazen killer is a question Mangione himself seeing do anticipate.

In his backpack, along with the entries from the red note book, investigators found additional writings, including a note addressed to them. Okay, this is the letter to the feds. Yes. The note to the feds contains what prosecutors describe

as a confession to the FBI. Mangione writes to save you a lengthy investigation. I state plainly, I wasn't working with anyone. He says it had to be done. Frankly, these parasites simply had it coming.

And he says, evidently, I'm the first to face it

with such brutal honesty. Other notes found in the backpack appear to show he was thinking about ways to allude authorities. Some of these writings also could be interpreted as a checklist, kind of things to do.

“Yes, I believe there was one that says pluck eyebrows”

and buy trash bags. He also talks about breaking camera continuity. And he says, keep momentum FBI slower overnight. He talks about changing his shoes. He talks about getting hot meal.

He talks about buying batteries. Mangione also writes about the unabommer, Ted Kazinsky. If you're too violent, if you're seen as a terrorist, the message will be dismissed. And so he seems to be grappling with how do I get a message across?

United healthcare says Mangione was never ensured by the company.

And there's nothing in his writings that mentions Brian Thompson by name. The writings do suggest he considered other options before prosecutors say he targeted the healthcare CEO. He does refer to KMD or RMD. What have been an unjustified catastrophe?

Talks to the government of person or a company? I really don't know, but what's clear from this is he says the target is insurance, it checks every box. Mangione will face a jury of his peers later this year. But there are those who believe he is not the one who should be on trial.

This should be two conversations. The state of the healthcare industry. But the murder of an innocent man should be its own conversation.

“I think tens of millions of Americans don't find Brian Thompson”

or his ilk to be innocent of anything. [Music] [Music]

and state murder charges for the killing of Brian Thompson.

He pleaded not guilty to all of them and spent the last year and a half in a detention center in Brooklyn where his attorney say he has been inundated with mail. His support coming from all over the world.

“I think millions of people see some of themselves in Mangione”

and that's why they love him so much. But he was accused of murder. Millions of Americans wouldn't call it a murder. They would call it something else entirely. Sam Beard, a healthcare activist and co-host of the party girls podcast,

help establish that legal defense fund for Brian Thompson's killer before Mangione was arrested.

The fund now sits at more than one and a half million dollars.

Americans are disgusted with the way that these parasitic health insurance corporations have inserted themselves between everybody that they love and their path to wellness. This feels like this should be two conversations. Like the conversation you're having right now about the state of the healthcare industry.

But the murder of an innocent man walking down the street should be its own conversation.

“I think tens of millions of Americans don't find Brian Thompson”

or his ilk to be innocent of anything. Do you think that he deserved to be murdered on the street? You know, when he was at the helm of the largest private health insurance corporation that the world had ever seen. That make him worthy of being murdered.

I don't think that I can answer that question. But millions of people around the country seem to feel that way. It's interesting how so many conversations about Mangione and up in a place where, well, I don't justify killing. I don't support anybody killing.

But it's that, but that, but you hear all of the time. When I'm speaking to people, they will say, "Of course, I don't condone violence. I am against murder. But I can understand why somebody would be upset at the healthcare insurance industry."

And that, but, is what fueled the discourse after Brian Thompson's murder. Have you been at all surprised by the level of frustration that this is uncoord? No, because I hear the frustration every day in my job.

Dr. Elizabeth Rosenthall is a best-selling author and journalist who was written about the American healthcare industry for 30 years. She's currently the senior contributing editor at KFF Health News, a national nonprofit news organization focused on healthcare. She is also mentioned by name in Luigi Mangione's writings

as someone who has illuminated the corruption and greed of a healthcare system. I'll be clear, you don't consider yourself an ally of him. No, no, of course not. He could mention me. He could mention a lot of other people who've written about this. You have said the system isn't broken

that it's actually acting as it was designed. What do you mean by that? Well, our healthcare system has, in my lifetime, changed from a system that was devoted to caring to a system that's devoted to profit

and to maintaining itself.

“These are big businesses, and that's what matters the most.”

And she says that by many measures, our for-profit system is failing patients. Everyone wants to blame someone or one part of the system, and it's not any one part. It's like a circular firing spot. We knew we disappointed people.

And we knew probably a lot of times we were unfairly criticized for the role that, you know, unfortunately, our US healthcare system puts the big payers in. Despite the criticism of their industry, Jeff says that among his colleagues, Brian Thompson had a reputation as a caring and conscientious, executive.

It was always very mindful that at the end of everything that we did

was a person, and that person needed us to be at our best, and he would demand that of people. You knew you were an industry that was not like by some. But you couldn't have imagined that someone would kill over that. It's still beyond me that people who clearly have hate in their hearts

would take somebody's life over what they did for a living. Mangione's murder trial is scheduled to begin in New York this September. Eating good defense lawyer would try to keep out as much evidence as they can. Laura Gerrit is senior legal correspondent for NBC News. She says that in addition to Mangione's notes,

which some have called a manifesto, police also found a partially 3D printed handgun

His defense has argued that the backpack search was unlawful.

“But here, the buck stopped with the judge who said,”

"No, the alleged murder weapon that gets to come in. The alleged manifesto where he talks about the insurance industry that now gets to come in." Mangione's defense attorneys did not answer our questions about the case and told date line they're concerned about pre-trial publicity,

including public statements made by the NYPD. They say threatened their client's ability to get a fair trial. Laura Gerrit says in court, the defense may try to shift the jury's attention to the health insurance industry.

The defense benefits enormously. If the judge allows them to make this about putting the insurance industry on trial instead of Luigi Mangione. Now, prosecutors are going to fight hard, but the industry really is the backdrop to all of it.

It's why you have people lined up outside of that courthouse. Because remember, as jurors and potential jurors are walking into that courthouse, they're going to hear the chance. They're going to see the signs. They're supposed to disregard it, but the questions about the insurance industry

“has raised the stakes in a way I think we haven't seen in a long time.”

Is this trial going to be about murder or any ethics of the health care system? The only people who know the answer to that question are Luigi, his defense team, and the prosecutors. I think for the average American, though, the health care system was immediately put on trial that day.

While that's a deliberation with no end inside, a jury inside of Manhattan courtroom will soon decide Luigi Mangione's fate.

We may never know if it was rage, frustration,

misguided idealism, or something else altogether that led to the deadly confrontation on that December morning.

“But for those who cared for Brian Thompson,”

the reason for his death matters far less than remembering the life he led. He's the victim. Yes, yeah, we can never forget that. He was a great father, great husband, great son,

a wonderful person. That's all for this edition of "Date Line." And check out our talking "Date Line" podcast, and I will go behind the scenes of tonight's episode available Wednesday in the "Date Line" feed,

wherever you get your podcasts. We'll see you again next Friday at 10. 9 Central. I'm Lester Hol, for all of us at NBC News. Good night.

I'm Craig Melve. Cheers. Cheers.

I've always been a glass half of a kind of guy,

and now I'm talking to some people who look at the world that we too. It's really fascinating folks who share their defining moments, their trials, challenges, their stories, their funny, and my candy. So I hope you'll join me each week and who knows.

You might just come away with your own glass half full. Search Glass half full with Craig Melve from today. On YouTube, and wherever you get your podcasts.