Talking Dateline: The Bluegrass Mystery

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Terms apply, see app for details. Hi everyone, I'm Andrea Canning and we are talking date line and today we're joined by Blaine Alexander to talk about her episode, The Bluegrass Mystery. And if you haven't seen it, you can watch the episode on Peacock or listen to it in the date line podcast feed and then come right back here.

Later we'll have an extra clip from Blaine's interview with one of Ella Jackson's friends about the two words she'd use to describe Ella as a mom.

“But first let's talk date line, hey, Blaine, how are you?”

Let's do it, Andrea. I'm so glad to see you. How are you? Good. And I hope that you had a wonderful birthday because I know it's a big one.

Congratulations 40 years, which is wild. Oh, I'm sorry. I was going to say 30. I thought you were 30. 30.

So sweet. I look 30. Thank you, my low. I'll take it. I'll take all of that energy.

Okay, thank you, so all right, so let's get right to this episode, Blaine first just

give us a little recap of the Bluegrass Mystery and what it was about. And so this is a story that takes place in Kentucky as the name might tell you. This centered around Ella Jackson. She is somebody who was a fantastic mom by all accounts. She had an adult son Philip and a younger son who's about six years old named Alex.

But one day her husband called 911 to say that she'd gone missing. At least I'm doing anything until about 24 hours later when her adult son calls and says, you know what, this is not like my mom, this doesn't seem good. Please investigate. Investigators look at three men in her life.

Her current husband, Glenn, her ex-husband Jason to whom she's still very close and friendly and her adult son Philip. And so through a number of different twists and turns, they ultimately settle on Glenn Jackson, her current husband who had killed her and dispose of her body. Yeah, I mean, let's start from the beginning that 911 call.

That was one of the most bizarre 911 calls.

“I think I've ever heard where, you know, he's saying, you know, I heard on a show.”

You don't wait to report someone missing. And then he's talking about how everything is great, like with him or I just, what is happening in this 911 call, it was the oddest thing that I have ever heard. But I think I just like I can help you. Hi, my name is Glenn Jackson, I mean, this is not an emergency, I have a coach in my life,

I have a 24 hours. Okay. Is the child with you? Yes, yes, at least he's fine, everything's great. I don't.

Of course you know what I think anything is wrong, but I go down the show a while back that you don't wait for the four days to report something missing. Right. And I kept, I kind of referred to this as like the tale of two 911 calls because you have these two calls that come in in about 24 hours apart.

But yes, the first one is from Glenn Jackson or husband who has no concern in his voice doesn't

seem worried. In fact, he basically says, this isn't a big deal, my son and I are good, it's just that my wife has gone down to where she is. And so most people listening to that would say, oh, that's an odd reason to call 911. But when I spoke with the investigator who led this entire thing, he told me that he really

gives so much credit to Philip. Ella's adult son from making that second 911 calling saying, please check into this. This is not my mom's normally normal behavior.

“Yeah, you need to look further into this.”

Yes, it reminded me of when I was a local news anchor reporter in Cincinnati, I was working the night being, you know, and I had been sent to the police station to cover some story. And this man came in to the little waiting area where I was waiting to do my interview. He comes in and he tells them at the window that his wife is missing. And he's very calm, like, doesn't seem really too concerned.

I'm sitting right there listening to the whole thing. And I said to him, I was like, do you, like, do you want help from the news? Like, I'm a news reporter, would you like, and he's like, no, no, no, no, I'm not there. It's fine. We're not there.

I was like, all right, you know, I guess it's probably a financial turn up.

time. Until I, you know, I looked it up not too long ago, like, whatever happened to that woman. And he pled guilty to her murder. So I was there the moment he reported her missing in the police department. I just happened to be sitting there on a bench, listening to the whole thing.

And thinking this, this guy is a little too calm. Yeah, you know. I mean, that's kind of how it is, right?

Like, we say this a billion times whenever we do these stories, there is no guidebook or

“playbook of how you should react when something like this should unfortunately be”

full of your family. But if your wife is gone missing, if someone you love is just gone and you don't know where they are, yes, you would expect a certain level of, you know, for a concern. I also think, I have to be honest, I also think, as uncomfortable as that situation would be to be in.

I think I would probably go down to the police station and say, hey, is there somebody I can talk to, but I digress, blame. Um, so fun. So let's talk about Jason, who you mentioned was the ex husband. This was unbelievable to me. So as much as I thought based on that opening, I'm one called the Glenn had done this.

And then I hear about Jason. And the fact that he has a wife who was murdered and it was unsolved, I was like, okay, Jason, wow, Jason must have done this. You know, I was really, really threw me for a loop because what are the odds?

And now your second ex wife has been murdered and you're still close to that ex wife.

I thought maybe he's not over her and, you know, he did this. It is really unbelievable that there's somebody who essentially lightning would strike twice, right? Like that she would be somebody whose wife is murdered in cold blood. I mean, he's young, they're just starting their lives together.

And then decades later, almost essentially the same thing happens, right? He was still very emotional when he spoke about his first wife arena.

“Like, he started tearing up and I think it even caught him by surprise, right?”

Because this is 20 plus years removed from this crime and it still chokes him up. It's interesting, though, he drew a distinction because I asked him. I said, how, how does one get through something like that? Have another tragedy happen and then get through that again? And he said he sees him so very differently.

He says his first wife, he's like, this is like the product of a system. Whatever happened, whoever would go up to someone and just kill them in cold blood, there was some sort of societal something that made this person the way they were, right? That was kind of his rationale of it. But he said, but when he talks about Ella, the fact that she was killed by somebody with whom

she was supposed to have been the safest, her spouse. That is the one that really angered him because that's the place where you're supposed to be safe. Yeah. That is a cruel, like that's more of a cruel crime in his mind. But to your question, though, Andrea, about, certainly it makes him look suspicious.

And that's exactly what detect a friend told me. That's what the chief told me. Even if they were very suspicious of Glenn, there's no way that you cannot take a second and third look at Jason when you hear that. It sounds like he struggled a little bit with the interview, even though he's an open

book, he had nothing to hide. But it sounds like it was very hard for him to sit down and talk about all this.

“I think it was hard for him to talk about his first wife to a degree because that is”

still so raw. I think his, in talking about Ella, his focus was very much, I want to get justice for her. And so he channeled it. There's grief, but also there's, like I said, Andrea, and there was a lot of just, like,

no, we're gonna nail this guy. I mean, it must be really unsettling to know that Irina has first wife that that crime is still unsolved to this day. How many years has it been? More than 20 years, easily.

Well, here's what's strange about this Andrea, this happened right in the midst of the

DC sniper. Oh my gosh. I remember that. Like, it was yesterday. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it's something that all of us remember. We were members just the terror and soon we went to Prince George's county and I spoke with the detectives there. I mean, they just kind of talked about, remember, the fear.

Like, everybody, they were hanging remember tarps over gas stations so people could pump their gas. And it was just terrifying. And so initially, when they found her just shot dead, nothing taken, no robbery. They thought, oh my god, is this another sniper victim?

And so they investigated it like that for a little bit, but then they realized it doesn't fit the pattern. So yeah, I mean, is there anything plain I was just thinking, since it's unsolved, Irina's case, are there any details that you can give to people listening if, you know, there's any tips to be called in?

This is something that the Prince George's county executive wanted to speak about because it is, I mean, at the end of the day, it's a cold case. And they were, you know, very eager to have the opportunity to speak about this case. It happened off the green line. She was walking from the metro station to her apartment.

And she was shot, point blank range. Nothing was taken, no cards, no credit cards, no money, no anything. She was found with a can of mace in her hand.

They didn't see that there was any sign of a struggle or anything. No. No assault.

“Part of the reason why they thought sniper initially, because there seems to be no reason.”

No, I'm no reason. No, anything like that. I asked the detective. I said it was almost like somebody was laying in weight waiting for her. He said yes.

That's what it seemed like. So somebody who would have known that she lived there, that she takes the metro, that she kind of walks that path. But yes, they are looking for any tips. And so they said, hey, if it jogs any memories, if anybody remembers anything, to

please call the Prince George. She's got her last name. Ponds. Ponds. Okay.

Yep. Arena Honds. Who should people call, if they have a tip? They should call Prince George's county police department. Okay.

It's 1-866-411 tips and her name was Arena Honds. So they're looking for any information. I'm sure she has a family who would love to get more answers, including Jason. So Jason, absolutely. Blaine, when we get back, we are going to play a little bit more of your interview with

Ella's friend, Jolyn, who is going to talk to us about what an incredible mother Ella

was. Such an ordinary thing, to walk home from high school, her name was Mickey Costanzo, just 16. She didn't have far to go, seemed perfectly safe until it wasn't what happened to Mickey. I'm Keith Morrison, and this is five miles from home, and all new podcasts from daylight.

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five years, and see minions and monsters only in theaters, Exfinity, imagine that. And to play not available in all areas, learn more at Exfinity.com/samedayWiFi. You know, what a wonderful twist and a really horrible story that Jason and his wife for adopting. All is, yes, I mean, that was really amazing.

You know, it's one of those things where you never know kind of how a story will end.

And happy endings are so very rare when we do these types of stories. But that really was just a beautiful, a beautiful wrap-up of all of this. I think the whole thing, the relationship between Jason and Ella is just a beautiful reminder that love can take so many different forms. They didn't work as husband and wife, but they still really had love for each other and

wanted to remain in each other's lives. Two of the point that Ella, I mean, it was clear that Jason was the person she trusted when she was trying to get away from Glenn. She would call Jason when she was trying to figure out how do I, you know, I'm not in a good marriage.

I'm not in a good situation. What should I do? That was the person that she kind of went to for advice. And so their love didn't work in a marriage setting, but it really did really work. I mean, he is the person that kind of took over.

So he said, you know, I know what Alex meant to her. Like I love him simply because she loved him. And so that's really what started. And I have to give a shout out to Natalia as well because that's Jason Hans's current wife.

And what a beautiful show of love on her part is just like, gosh, we don't have kids, but okay, come on in, we're going to, we're going to talk about a couple of full-time mom. I mean, that is, that is, what's good people? Something.

And, you know, Ella, by all accounts, it sounds like she was an incredible mom.

And I know we have an extra clip from one of Ella's friends talking about Ella as a mom

“who, or are we going to hear from Glenn in this clip?”

We're going to hear from Joel and Stevenson. She is a neighbor of Ella's lived nearby and basically watched Ella raise Alex and got to know her very well. They go from, you know, just being, oh, neighbors, we wave to becoming really, really good friends. And so she speaks beautifully about the kind of mother that Ella was.

Ella took motherhood very seriously. Very seriously. It was her primary focus of life. What does that look like? Just kind of describe that for me.

All in, all in, it was, that was her main focus. She felt, or at least it seemed, that she felt she could throw as much love and joy and, you know, a real wonderness of childhood into her children that maybe what she had been through wouldn't be forced onto them.

How would she, whatever apparent talks about their child, there's typically this kind of sound of pride in their voice?

“I mean, you can feel the love, you can feel the pride.”

How would Ella talk about her sons?

Exactly as she said with, with pride, being the center of her world, I never heard

her speak negatively about them. I never heard her be frustrated with them. I'm sure she was. I'm sure she, what, I'm a mother, I know you're a mother, you know, but she never said oh my gosh, driving me crazy, he's driving, he's doing all this stuff.

She never used those moments to burden someone else with that frustration. It sounds like she was just really mindful of the energy she put out to everybody around her. Yes. And I, to this day, do not know how she did it.

It's a skill. It's a incredible skill. Yeah. It's a incredible skill. Yeah.

Don't know how she did it. So that was Jolyn. I mean, you could just hear Andrea when she talks about her friend. She just admired her. I mean, she was kind of a mom role model for her.

She talks about just the many ways that Ella would pour into Alex. And we keep talking about Alex, of course, because he was the younger one. But it was the very same with Phillip. But by this time, Phillip was an adult. He's grown.

I mean, they had a close relationship. But it was very different. But I mean, would read to him constantly. I mean, just filling his mind with science. And it's interesting because when I met Alex, you know, and we said he didn't want to show

his face current day, but he really wanted to be there to honor his mom, he is a brilliant child. I mean, worldly, it's clear that he travels a lot now with Jason and Natalia, but he traveled a lot with his mom. You know, when you come across kids, you're going to do well.

Like, he is one of those children. And so you can see just the nurturing that his mom poured into him even at an early age.

“And so Jolyn really captured that, I think.”

I love that. I love that. That is one of the best endings, you know, that I've seen in a while where the sun runs into the arms of two loving people who really want him and are going to, you know, keep him hopefully on the right track, which it sounds like he's doing great.

So yeah. And to actually knew his mom, like, Jason actually knew his mom and can really speak about his mom. So it really is such a beautiful situation for him. One of the things that really struck me from this story that we see so often is victims

speaking through their own words from before they died. And this was a really good example of a victim who had big concerns and kind of knew that something might happen. I mean, she made close to 70 kind of secret recording. She had these, yeah, of these interactions that she had with Glenn, the reason that she was

trying to get all of her ducks in a row, according to Jason, was that she was fearful of what would happen to Alex if she were to leave. Because she said, this is according to Jason to the investigators that she feared that Glenn had connections, he had money, he had means, and that where she to leave, he would be able to take custody of Alex.

And so she was trying to work with an attorney, she was trying to work with advocates to kind of figure out what she could do to get out of the situation, but also make sure that she kept custody of her young son. And so that was by all accounts, kind of the delay in getting out. But in the meantime, she was very clear that she was in danger.

And so she was recording, she wrote in her journal to say, basically, this is about her husband.

And then, as you heard from Philip and one of the police interviews, she even told her

“adult son, hey, if something happens to me, here's where you need to live.”

All the red flags were there, and he is just an odd guy, Glenn. I mean, he drops to his knees at the park when he's been annoying women, and then the officer sees him and he drops to his knees and says, this is how I talk to students. And you're like, yeah, these are not in your garden students, these are college students. Basically adults.

Yes. I'm so glad that we got that body camera video because it really had nothing to do with the story. It gave a very good window into the type of person that Glenn wasn't just as just his oddities.

I mean, I think Detective friend did a very good job of describing it in our interview. And I should mention that was the first time Detective friend had ever sat down, ever done an interview.

That was the first time he'd spoken about this.

But he really talked about in those long interviews that he would have with Glenn. Just how strange it was. I mean, this is somebody who's just would be, I guess the word filibuster comes to mind. filibuster and just had these kind of meandering explanations.

But then, yes, the body camera video, he's out there at a dog park talking to women. But obviously they're very uncomfortable and comfortable enough to call police. He squats down, keeps getting back up.

But the detective was very clear, but he was like, you know, this is somebody who always

“wanted to be the smartest person in the room, right?”

And that's the same thing that Gillen said about him. That's the same thing that Dana, another one of Ellis friends, said about him. All of them were like, he is this person who wanted to be the smartest person in the room and kind of had this way of talking down to people in a sense. I mean, well, he was like the weirdest guy in the room.

Yeah. It's right. Just for sure. Okay. So I do, I'm, I never want to be judging, however, I will say this.

I love this intro, by the way. I'm sure this man is very nice. But the friend who did not tell the police when Glenn basically confessed to killing Ella. And then he was like, I didn't know if it was a real confession. I'm like, how about you air on the side of caution?

I mean, the confession itself was wild, right? That Glenn called him an over under the guise of, hey, let's get our kids together. Let's have a play date. And he takes his phones. He describes how Glenn took both of their phones and put them in the car like away from them.

Oh my gosh. And then comes back and kind of, you know, the way that we were standing leaning against the car, that's kind of how the conversation went essentially this is not enough for this man. And he confesses.

And he confesses, yeah. But this might be real.

“And you know, and you heard me ask him, I was like, why not take this to police?”

He eventually did. But he said, yeah, she hadn't been found. I didn't know if it was real, really wasn't sure. There are some questions. I know that some of them folks have over that.

But that's, yes. Well, you were very nice to him. But I was like, come on, let's just use some common sense here. Right. The, you know, a lot was made of the sentence that Glenn received.

And I'm sorry, but like he could be out by 2034, first of all, he's on house arrest.

Then they give him time served for his house arrest. And then it's this short. So let's talk about the house arrest to make bond on murder charges first as well. So it's come out and to be able to be on house arrest for five years. I mean, that isn't incredibly long time.

And Jill and talks about the fact that I mean, remember, she still lives in nearby. And so she's used to go walking to the mailbox. Like, she sees him knowing that he's been arrested for allegedly killing her friend. That's just got to be terrifying in and of itself. But then move on to that and then he or move on past that and it's the Alfred plea that

he takes. And just, yeah, for Alfred plea for anybody who's listening, it's basically acknowledging that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict you without actually pleading guilty to it or taking responsibility. And that just incensed a lot of people.

It really did. And then, yes, yeah, and then that sentence is short. Like you said, all right, playing, coming up next, we are going to highlight some of the questions and comments. People.

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Okay, welcome back. We have your questions and comments from social media, and we actually heard blame from people who had Glenn as a professor at Eastern Kentucky. Oh, wow. Interesting.

Oh, okay. Let's hear these. Can you imagine?

“Looking back and saying I was actually in his lectures while this was going on?”

No. Okay. So McKenzie Combs wrote, "I was a student as class at Eastern while all this was occurring very interesting watch for sure. Christian Gayheart.

He was my professor at the time of the murder, Becca Townsend. I had Glenn Jackson at EKU shortly after she disappeared. He seemed off and acting weird." Wow. Yeah.

Well, first off, to all three of those students are former students who wrote in, "Thank

Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching." What an unbelievable intersection.

“I mean, I think that we've gotten a lot of different comments of people who maybe knew”

about cases, but I can't imagine one where they were actually students who were in there while this whole thing was going on. After this man was now, we know the timeline, had actually killed his wife. That is a, that's astonishing. That's a story for my goodness.

Oh, we, we got another comment from Daniel Cramer on Facebook. Daniel said, "Here with my note pad, keenly picking a body language and listening to

every word of every interview of everyone involved because you've just never, no.

I appreciate you. Don't true. I appreciate you. You're a very thorough viewer and we appreciate that. You know, I have, I've got to say that there have been a couple of times when we've

had comments or I'll just kind of sit through our comments on social media during an episode. And a couple of times viewers have picked up on things that I didn't see or there will be like a small detail or oh, did you notice that or something that is just like most people with the naked eye would not see or or erase some sort of question. And so, shout out to Daniel and our other eagle-eyed viewers, and we have the best viewers

and listeners ever on date line with that question. With that question. That's if you guys actually could go into investigative work yourselves. If you wanted to. So, if you need a second career out there, look at look into that, and they come up to

us everywhere. You know, when we're out, when we're in airports, when we're like, you know, shooting stories, they, they, I don't know about you, but I love engaging. Absolutely. When I'm out in the field or out in the wild, the world, because it's so great to hear

their perspectives and what they're interested in, I find it to be very interactive, whether it's in person or on social media. I think it's so much fun. And I also think that it's, it, you kind of get the different reasons as to why people watch, right?

Or why people are drawn in or want to solve or want to protect themselves or whatever it is. So, yeah.

And I also always get that people say, we put them to sleep at night.

The turn on the podcast on our voice. I put them down. Oh my gosh, I got this, I got this message from a woman who was on a girl's weekend, and she woke up in the middle of the night, and she heard my voice, and she was like, what is happening, and so she went out of her bedroom and followed the voice, followed my

voice to another bedroom. She opened the door and her friend on this girl's weekend was fast asleep with her phone or her laptop or something right next to her, because she falls asleep today. Oh my gosh. And she hadn't shut it off.

Oh my gosh. So she heard my voice coming from the bedroom. That is hilarious.

“That is, you were just kind of floating in the house right there in the location home, right?”

Well, the thing is the power of the voice, right? So many people know us only through podcast. I went to a few weeks ago, I was at Kailmy Crazy, ordering some lunch, and the gentleman who was behind the counter was like, looking down, he was typing my order, so I'm saying my order, and then he goes, "Blaine, be blamed from daylight."

He hadn't even looked at my face, but he was just like, I recognized your voice as I'm talking about my like, "Kidwass salad," and he said, "I listen to that podcast through rush hour traffic all the time." So shout out to I forget his name, and Kailmy Crazy, he listen to me all the time. And also Blaine too, you have a unique name too.

True, Blaine. Like I feel like it's a very memorable name. That is true. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Yeah. I'm like Andrea, right? I got like the boring Andrea name. That's a beautiful name.

Yeah, I was named after a downhill skier. Andrea made Lawrence. Really? My mom was a downhill skier, and she named me after the skier that she looked up to. You know, it makes a lot of sense because you are so adventurous.

I can imagine having some downhill skier like energy in your name and in your blood. That makes all the sense in the world. That actually answered a lot of questions for me. So thank you. There you go.

Okay. It's all in the name, right? Yes. Okay. We got a clarifying question from Jude Marie Gudro about motive.

Dateline NBC, you didn't say why he did it. Was it because she was going to divorce him? And then Carol Colleen McDonald responded to Jude Marie and said, "I was wondering this as well, but he didn't admit anything so only he knows, I guess. But do we know?"

Well, Jude. Thank you so much for that great question. So again, he didn't confess, he didn't admit anything. And so this was all kind of left for detectives to piece together, but they do believe that perhaps the tipping point or what sent him off was, Ella finally being about to leave.

And him getting upset and flying into a rage and killing her. She said something to the effect of, "I'm leaving you, I'm divorcing you, or he found

“that out in some way, and that's what sent him over the edge."”

So that is it, Lane, for this edition of Talking Dateline, always a pleasure to see your

face down to discuss all of these interesting things that we have. Absolutely.

It is. Thank you. All right.

“Remember, if you have any questions about our stories, you can DM us your audio or video”

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“And with that, we will see you Fridays on Dateline, on NBC.”

I'm Craig Melve. Cheers, cheers. Cheers.

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