Ep. 7: Science vs. Faith? How about both? (St. Albert Marie, O.P., Ph.D.)

experience that I don't always expect medieval to be interested in and he asks this question

“whether you receive the sacraments, why don't they have a greater impact on us? I think there's”

almost at the back of his mind the idea that if we were completely freed from all temptation, we might be like Adam and Eve in the garden again, and then we might do the fall again. Like they'd be there'd be this yes, where's this worst challenge? One of the great Dominican saints Albert the Great. Hi and welcome to Dominican Sisters. Open Mike, my name is Sister Miriam. I'm a sister of the Dominican Sisters of Mary, Mother of the Eucharist, based out of Ann Arbor,

Michigan, we'll be sitting down each week talking to sisters about all things Dominican so

welcome and today we have as a special guest sister Albert Marie and we will be talking about her patron saint, one of the great Dominican saints, Saint Albert the Great and just to give you a little bit of background information on our very own sister Albert Marie, she's from Ontario, Canada, she entered the comment in 2005, studied at Aave Maria, systematic theology and earned a PhD, and she's currently teaching at the University of Saint Thomas in Houston.

Welcome sister. Thank you sister. So good to be here. Thank you. What are you teaching right now? Yeah so this last semester I taught a lot of sections of our freshman class, faith, reason, revelation that kind of introduces students into as they enter a university curriculum, how faith and reason are complementary and you don't need to leave one behind to really fully embrace the other. Nice. And then this upcoming semester I'm going to be teaching medieval

theology at the seminary in Houston and then sacraments for our master's program or it's online actually online and in person and then more faith, reason, revelation for the rest of the freshman. Sister, I want to be in your classes. They're fun. It's a good student, a good discussion. Yeah sister, I am excited to learn more about your patron Saint Albert. I know you love him so much, but before we get to that I thought it might be nice to hear a little bit about your background

in your pathway towards the religious life. So I think my main question for you is, did you think about being a sister when you were growing up and would love for you to share how did the Lord make his will known to you? Yeah, yeah absolutely. So when I was a teenager,

“I was being told you know at school or in the parish like you should pray but what God wants”

you to do with your life and I was pretty sincere kids so I was like okay I'll say a prayer about it, you know, so you did bring that to the Lord. Yeah, yeah and then there was one day praying after Mass. I just received Communion. You could see our sort of Q&A's carries on there already. I just just received Communion just had this strong sense of God's reality like all those things you learned in theology class are real and a sense of God's love for me and a sense of whatever I

did with my life that what would be most important would be my relationship with God and that's not

a vocation, right? That's the universal called Holiness. That's for everyone. Right. And you were in high school? I was in high school at that time. Yeah, but it was after Mass on Sunday, just a normal Sunday Mass. Yeah and then along with that, I sort of was processing that. It's been time to process things sometimes and then came the thought you could be a sister like sort of as an invitation in addition to that

“and that sort of like Lord if that's what you want, I'll do that. But of course, you know you can't”

base your life on just like one momentary experience so that that desire stayed with me. So I kind of went back to that as time went on this. No, that still seems to be what the Lord wants that I still have that desire. Were you at that time having a pretty regular prayer life and going to the sacraments? I was. So I was going to Mass every Sunday and our family we try to squeeze into Mastering Lent on weekdays during Lent. So it's a little bit extra to conding Mass and I was going to

confession maybe once a month. So yeah, so I was doing a lot of things that would sort of make me able to hear the Lord's voice. And I've been asking what do you want me to do with my life, Lord?

so that's a question on your mind, right? Right. And I presented you didn't know any sisters at that time

“or hadn't seen sisters. I did know a few, so there was a caramelate monastery that we would”

attend Mass at some times. And I was pretty sure I wasn't called there, but I did sort of have that witness, at least like that awareness, you know. And then there were some sisters in Canada who took care of the elderly and nursing homes. Okay. So I knew about them and they were good sisters, but I didn't, didn't feel a call there. Okay. So you finished high school and you did the next step, then what most people choose, which is college? That's right. And if I'd known what community

God wanted me to join, I would have done it. Okay, but I didn't, I didn't know. I visited some different communities, and it wasn't right. So in the Lord clearly, those Dominicans are about education, so he clearly wanted me to. So would you say, so when the time and you finished high school, you felt pretty certain that your vocation was to be a sister, but you just didn't know exactly where yet. Yes. Okay. I found it a little awkward as a high schooler. I felt like it was like saying,

"It's not identical, it's what I felt like this at the time." Like, say, "Well, I want to get Mary, but I don't know who." Right. And it's not true because if you know Jesus, you know the who of religious like, but I didn't know where. Did you tell people that you wanted to be a sister at that time? If they really asked me a lot, but because I didn't have like this specific, I would, I would have

always tell them. Okay. But your parents knew? They did. They did. How did they react to that?

You know, really beautifully, actually. Mom, especially, had always emphasized that

“children are a gift from God, and that means you have to let your children follow the path God has for”

that. That's so beautiful. And we would pray the family rosary actually also. We would. Yeah, there's times when we liked it and times when we did it. But that was always, it was actually was good because even when there's conflict in the family, that was always a peaceful moment. Right. So even during those teenage years, it always like a nice moment with the family, even if other things are a little turbulent. So we did, we did appreciate that. But oh, and we, we cycle through

all different legways of trying to enter into the rosary more like different meditations before the decades or little scripture verses before the Hellmarries. And at one point, the meditation for the presentation, the temple. Okay. That was a theme of that. That children belong to God. You have to let them follow God's path. So that was kind of in my mind and clearly converted my parents heart. They were out into the Lord's will for you in your life. They were,

“they were. It was still, I think, a little hard for them when I entered partly because I'm the”

oldest child. So like the oldest child flying the nest and someone entering the combat like came together and I don't think they immediately knew how to sort of set like the emotions of both, but then one as my siblings got older and started going on their vocations into their, what they were doing with their life, mom and dad were like, oh yeah, I'll children leave the home.

You know, they're able to process that a little bit, but they were always supportive.

Yeah. Sister, what do you love about the religious life? Oh, there's so many things. I think right now, I'd say I do love how we started day with Julio or pretty much every day. Yeah, are you crystal Julio? Even though we do have to get up at five, but it's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. For the Lord. I don't love the blabbing at five, but I love that where I go after the blabbing at five

is to the chapel. It's been that time with the Lord. It's sort of to start the day off that way. It's a beautiful how, well, one of the models of the Dominican order is to contemplate and give to others the fruits of your contemplation. So to begin the day before our Lord, when we know we have tons of things that's going to be coming our way, we're to all teachers and teaching, it can be very busy and hectic at times, but to start the day in front of our Lord,

and that hopefully we can then witness to the students that we teach during the day, is a beautiful aspect of our life that I love, too. Yeah, and sometimes I'll just talk to the Lord and hold the hour. But sometimes I will, if I know it's a lesson, I need a little bit more light on, also to bring the text or some of the theology that I'll be teaching that day. It'll sometimes meditate on that with the Lord. So sort of really directly getting some help or light on that.

It really depends, but being at theology teacher is a blessing in that way that it can kind of sometimes integrate prayer and then teaching. Sometimes not. Sometimes you need to leave the teaching

"Oh, let me, let me actually think about this." So I get to be more, let me enter into it more fruitfully before I have to talk about it with the students. Which must be such a gift for your student. I don't teach theology. I'm a science teacher. So I'm not really bringing it to my travel time so much where I'm thinking of the content of science. But what I give to be teaching theology and spend the time in front of the Lord, how enriched it must be by that time that you spend

and what a gift to your students. So thank you for what you bring them. Thank you. Yeah. I love how

that works. Sister, did you? You have a PhD. I do. Which is awesome and amazing and I admire you for

for the gifts I got us given you an intellectual life. Did you ever think you would get a PhD

“in your life when you were even like before the comment or even like once you entered the comment?”

Yeah. So when I was in college, so I went to college at Avaria College when it was in Michigan, and I knew some of my friends were headed on academic path after they graduated. Okay. So I definitely knew that was a possibility that people followed and that I probably was capable of doing that. You have professors who give you feedback. But I mean, I knew that the Lord was calling me to enter religious life and that was like so clear that the suggestion to take more time or

do graduate school or something, just I knew it was a distraction and wasn't going to do that. Although then it was a blessing once our community sent me to study. I was like, oh, those teachers also saw something that the Lord wanted. They were actually telling me something. They were reading God's will but reading it several years down the line and it clearly much much less important.

Right? The vocation and serving the Lord's will is what's most important. So once I entered the

comment, I didn't think I would be doing graduate school and that was fine, right, to bring the Lord's

“truth to where he wants you to bring it. That's what's most important. Right. And I think it's a beautiful”

aspect of our community life that sisters have different gifts. And we want to put those gifts to the service of our Lord for the purpose of helping people to love God. And so it's it's beautiful that that was recognized in you and that you were sent sent to complete those studies. Was it was it? I mean, was it difficult to to go through that program or felt brilliant natural for you given your aptitude for that kind of study? Yeah. So I did my atmasters and my PhD, like you said

at Avae Mary University when it was in Florida. The masters degree. I mean, there was challenging,

right? You're reading text, especially remember my first semester reading Kant on the Trinity

and you're like, and he's really messed up on the Trinity. He's like, what is this? It was really

“nice to get to the part of the course we read Augustine and the not messed up stuff, you know? Right.”

So there were there were challenging moments with certain wrestling with certain authors, but it wasn't, I had done academic working college and it was, it came as Kim's pretty naturally to me. And for your PhD work, could you explain what you did for your work there? Yeah, so there was definitely some coursework, but then for my dissertation I translated a work by St. Albert the Great, so his work on the body of the word and then I wrote sort of a theological analysis of

the theology and that text for the writing part of the, yeah, and it's actually it's published with Catholic University of America, fathers of the church medieval continuation series. It's a big mouthful, the idol of that series, just got out some parts. Okay, yeah, yeah, good, so so that text was sent to St. Albert. Yeah, he did, you translated this work and but did you know him when you first entered the comment and he took his name, your sister Albert Marie, did you know how did you get to

know who he was? Yeah, so he was not on my radar at all before I entered the comment, but then when I was a postulent that first year I was learning about Dominican saints, you're really excited about the Dominican vocations sort of delving into knowing more about the Dominican saints, so I read about him and I loved the fact that he promoted the study of theology and philosophy in the early order, so he had a little bit to do with the course of studies that the fryers

followed and I loved that he saw God's glory in all of creation. There's a quote from him, what is it? He quotes the Psalm, "The heavens declare the glory of God." He says, "All creation is

study of theology, but also not having that be simply like your academic scholastic distinctions,

which he was really good at, but also God's glory shining through all things. Like this is telling us about the world we live in and the presence of God that we live in. And I did grow up in a farm in Canada, so some of my early prayer life was walking in the fields and sort of seeing meditating on the beauty of creation, so that kind of connected to me as well. Yes, people might not be aware that he did science as well and he classified different species. He was

very interested in knowing the natural world and had a could see the creator in the natural world. What other facts about say Albert might we need to be aware of? Yeah, let's see. So when I tell

people about when he lived, you can just sort of think about the entire 1200s. So he's bored at

the beginning of the 1200s and dies around 12/80s or so, which was very early on in the establishment of the Dominican order. Yes, so he didn't meet St. Dominic, so sort of that he's a next generation out of that. And he had a little bit of university education before he entered actually. He'd been doing, he'd done some studies, so I kind of identified with that as well. He was probably in his 20s when he joined the order, so not super super young, but also there was like a wave of also

university professors who got drawn into the order and the Albert wasn't that either. He was still a young man. And then he throughout his time in the order, he studied and taught, he taught at Paris for a Royal University of Paris and taught Thomas Aquinas there and he taught at the Dominican studio in Cologne as well. So it was in the German province, some of the time, Paris, then back to the German province. So just teaching most of the time, although he served as

“provincial for a couple years. And I think the point, they needed more people to, who could”

do academic work, so they're like taking them out of being superior. So he was able to go back to academic work. Probably a lot of many directions. And then near the end of his life, he serves as a bishop for a few years. So yes, but so which is mostly known as a teacher. He's known as a teacher. He also did writing and you translate it so. Can you give us a sense of how much he wrote? Oh, a lot. It's interesting when people ask new questions about St. Albert's works,

because I know well, a little corner of his sacramental theology, but then there's all of his philosophy and then all of his work on the psychology and epistemology. And then there's all of his work on the natural sciences. There's so, so much. I mean, it's actually quite funny when I

had first taken his name and I had learned Latin as a college student. My younger sister was like,

"Is that a good library?" And she's like, "Oh, I'll copy some of Albert's works and Latin and mail you some pages. You can like get to know your patron better." But she copied like some book about trees. Oh, really? It was like, "Oh, I just sent me the theology." Like, "Oh, the trees." And this kind of tree is this kind of leaf. It was like so dear to her, but it was that there's like, that's a part of his work I have. I love that it's there. That he's not afraid of any type of

knowledge, right? It all comes from God's. You can explore and ask whatever questions and it will still, it will all in the end fit together even if you can't quite see how it all fits together.

“So, Star, I think there's many ways that you imitate your patron, your teacher, and you also”

write. But I think you also go and observe the birds and the trees. I see them out there on retreat days. I'm not really doing sort of scientific studies of them, but I think birds are beautiful. Actually, so I was looking just a little bit about Albert's commentary in the book of Daniel a couple of years ago. You know, there's that beautiful canticle with all the different things blessed the Lord. Season rivers blessed the Lord. There's like a moon blessed the Lord. Exactly.

Well, there's birds of the air blessed the Lord. So, what did they say about the birds? Because I like birds and he says that the birds, I believe he says they sort of give us an image of like the life of prayer because they're like constantly like chirping to the Lord, but also that they make the they make the world beautiful. They're like an ornament making the world beautiful. And I say,

“so that's actually, I say, that's why I look at birds. They're beautiful. I like to see what they do”

and how they look. So soon thanks for sharing that. I see you out there on retreat day. And I'm just walking on the road. Yeah, doing your stuff. Yeah, no, if there's a bird, I like the wood peckers and the

keep warm. Yeah, that's great. So what of the areas that Saint Albert has written about is to do a sacramental? That's from the biology. Yeah. And I wondered if you could give us a kind of overview of some interesting meditations and points that he brings out about the sacraments and sacramental life. Yeah, no, definitely. Yeah, I've recently been translating his work at day sacramenties, which is a early sacramental work. So he writes a later when his commentary on the sentences,

but the sacrament section that is just huge. So day sacramenties is a little more bite size in order to translate. But yeah, there's a lot of really, really beautiful and interesting insights in there. One thing that I found particularly interesting recently is he's interested in some

questions of experience that I don't always expect medieval to be interested in. Okay. And he

“asked this question where we received the sacraments. Why don't they have a greater impact on us?”

Or like, and he's a medieval. So he's looking at the sacraments in terms of the sign and the cause for him. That's he's very exactly sacrament signify grace and sacraments cause grace. He really likes that phrase. Okay. So he's like, well, baptism, for example, we've got the washing and that's like the washing away of sin. And so then by looking at the sign, we know what it causes. It causes the removal of sin, but he's like, but it doesn't completely remove all the effects of sin.

Like it removes sin. We're not so guilty anymore. But there's still, yeah, like the the the vice or sort of disorder is still there. Yeah. So kind of um, and he, and he asked that about other sacraments as well. Like anointing of the sick, right? It signifies the strengthening. So he's like, well, that strengthens our soul, but it doesn't strengthen our bodies. You know,

we're still, sometimes it does, but it doesn't always, or you know, penance. That's forgiveness of sin.

Sort of the same question as baptism. And yet we still have some of the effects, some of the

“vices that we've grown into after. I love it. Yes, exploring this question because I think”

this is a huge part of our humanity that we all wrestle with is wow. I'm going to confession as a sister. We have the opportunity to go once a week, which is wonderful. Yeah. I'm going to confession once a week. And yet I'm still struggling in this area of sin. I'm receiving holy communion every day at mass, which is such a blessing of our life. And yet I'm confessing this still. And we all struggle with that. We have these things that

we're wrestling with. And sometimes it seems like for free years. Although it might be the case where you are healed of a certain area, through the grace of the sacraments. And that, and that does happen as well. But we have these areas where we're wrestling with it. So what is his response to this? Yeah. And he addresses it in various places like when he's talking about different sacraments. Let's see. Let me tell you about baptism. Okay. So there he says, well, God could have made it

that when we're baptized. We are completely free of all temptation or all disorder. But he says, God in his wisdom didn't. And that's there's a few reasons, right? One of them he says is for humility, right? That. Okay. Our whole relationship with God needs to be founded on humility, which is based on that metaphysical truth, right? That God is a creator and the source. And it's in him. We find our joy and we're the creator. Creation looks towards the creator. Right? So he says, and he's quoting

Genesis when he's talking about the struggle with sin helping us grow in humility, which is

“interesting. I think there's almost at the back of his mind the idea that if we were completely”

freed from all temptation, we might be like Adam and even the garden again. And then we might do the fall again. Like that would be there'd be this worse. This worse challenge. Yes. Yeah. And part

of the answer is crystallological, right? That Christ didn't struggle with disorder desire,

but Christ suffered from our sins. And they're sort of as we suffer with the results of sin or the disorder of brokenness. And it's not even our own sin, just like the disorder that's inherited with the human nature, you know, disordered by original sin that we're like Christ and share in

cooperate in receiving salvation. And I know as humans we grow through time, at least. And that

“God, this is not just Albert's idea. You see it in human nature and Aquinas as well. Okay. That”

God works with us spiritually in a way that's parallel to how he's made our nature physically. So, sort of physically you grow over time and your muscle strength and over time. And also relationships, right? Because the sacraments are they're not just about perfecting us. They're about our relationship with the Lord. But that we grow in these ways naturally over time and God sort of beautifully and kindly fits the process of sanctification usually to sort of work in a similar way.

That gradually over time we grow in grace and grow in closeness to the Lord and grow in

practicing virtue and therefore rooting vise out of our life. Always with the power and strength

of the sanctifying grace and dwellingable Holy Spirit received through the sacraments. That's always at the root there, but that we're not rock. So he doesn't redeem us. Rocks here are deems of people as to cooperate. A lot of us, it was a while ago when we were teenagers, but the process of going from a middle school or to an adult, that's like hard and dramatic and it's like emotionally

“dramatic and you need to learn all these things and your body's different. Like there's their”

sort of you know, you can cooperate in that well or you can be like isolate yourself and like bring yourself into adulthood with some serious, serious wounds. Right. And that's sort of the if you think of the hard process of going through that like spiritually there's something something parallel I think. Yeah. So if you were going to give some spiritual vise to our listeners based on what you've just reflected on. Yeah, saying Albert's sacramental theology,

what would you want to tell people? Yeah, so I'd probably want to focus on the Eucharist and I'd remind us that again Albert says the sign of the Eucharist, the appearances of bread and wine tells us about the grace because and we receive Christ right there's we truly encounter him in the Eucharist but we encounter him under the appearances of bread as food for us right and that tells us how he comes to us in the Eucharist also. He doesn't come as the Lord returning glory to definitively

and all sin forever in judge the world right. He's going to do that but that's not the way he comes to us in the Eucharist right. He comes to us as our spiritual food to be with us to enable us to grow and to strengthen us. So sometimes people especially as they have more of a realization of the reality of Christ in the Eucharist there can be a frustration like, Lord this is you, how can I like you get articulated earlier? Why am I not getting holier faster and there can be a temptation

to despair or give up or assume I am not doing it right and it's always okay wrong with me. Yeah and

it's always good to reflect like where am I not being generous but the process is but he comes to us as food you know you'd never be like oh yeah I just ate all the carbs I need from my whole life now I'm done eating right you're like no you can only take in enough for that day right for that that's a great analogy yeah and that the Eucharist is meant to be like that and if you don't receive communion every day you still can make a spiritual communion as the Lord to remain close to you

and give you give you grace and talk a quiet Albert will say that he recognizes people don't always receive communion every day but don't be like but you need the Lord's spiritual nourishment your daily bread every day so I guess my advice would be and yet sort of again parallel to eating healthy food every day you will if your vitamin deficient you will over time get stronger and be able to do more

“and feel better and so that the sacraments do work the Lord is there but you need to be attentive to growth”

over time not necessarily immediately now the Lord can miraculously you know bring something about immediately but often he's inviting us to become spiritual adults who grow and virtue by receiving and cooperating and there's a trust like those into that as well just the Lord knows and sometimes I do think in hindsight you can see that it's really good to look back if you've over a period of time if you've been consistently praying and asking the Lord look back and see

how where you have grown and sometimes externally there's just been so many talents in your life that

challenges things are kind of stable externally you should be able to see that interior interior and

“I mean even if things are crazy externally you probably grow interiorly but you can't always tell”

because you're still like you're just just hanging on but you're hanging on in more difficult circumstances so there is a deeper deeper courage and a deeper love there but yeah it's valuable to look back over time maybe it's a good practice to if if someone were feeling really frustrated or even despairing to look back and actually name what the things are where you can see the progress or the transformation or God's grace as a reminder and as an opportunity to give thanks for

where the Lord is bringing you and that you're still in the process and the Lord is still with you

and God help you. No that's beautiful and that goes back to the humility we mentioned earlier to right to the part of the that takes a process it takes time helps us to rely on the Lord and be

“with the Lord because we're developing a relationship not just being perfected ourselves yeah so thank”

you for sharing these insights with us you're welcome I have loved talking about seeing over the great and I didn't know a lot of this so I hope to talk to you some more about it are you ready for the speed round yes let's do the speed round okay is yes she's ready let me just grab my sheet okay

okay I'm not going to respond to your answers okay so you get to say whatever you want sounds good okay

sister what is your favorite liturgical season and why Easter we need the victory of Christ and I love being reminded of that yeah do you have a hobby I do I crochet and actually I teach um intro freshman just little one credit class to like help the students integrate into life at university of St. Thomas where some of the moon had a crochet with me wherever we actually know that it's so funny what is your favorite game at the moment at the moment oh wingspan

you know it's not a stereotypical but the birds are so pretty on it and the strategy is still challenging it's a bird game sister Mary for Lubina plays it with me almost every Sunday I wish it in Sunday afternoon it's our little routine is so fun yeah what is a book besides the Bible that has impacted your spiritual life that you would recommend that I would recommend yes I would recommend I would say this well I love the sum up but if I'm gonna recommend a book it's

Coleman O'Neill's meeting Christ in the sacraments oh yes it's just anyways I could keep going but yeah it's good okay titles of our our lady what's your favorite title and why my favorite title I love cause of our joy again this thing there's a need for greater joy in the world and the recognition that whatever circumstance you're in I maybe even ties back to that experience that I was in high school that closeness with the Lord is what we need the most and is a source of joy in our

life yeah yeah what age group do you most enjoy teaching oh well college students that's where all my experience is okay yeah all ages of college students are all different but I enjoy them all if you could have dinner with any saint what would who would at the and what would you ask them yeah I mean probably I would love to talk to Saint Albert and I probably just asked him about his

“works what he thought was most important in his theology because I'm in the midst of like”

writing and translating his sacraments of theology sort of like oh why did he ask the questions that he asks about sacramental experience and how that fit into his life as a Dominican I'd like to ask him about putting together that life of a university professor and academic and a Dominican and get some spiritual advice on that from him yeah last one name and activity that brings you peace and refreshes your spirit going for a while especially when it's beautiful outside yeah that

definitely that doesn't sister thank you so much for coming you're welcome to hear your insights we want to thank our audience for listening and we want to encourage you to if if you've listened to this podcast and found it helpful in your spiritual life please feel free to pass in a long perhaps you know a friend or a loved one that might benefit and our hope is to help people to know and love our Lord so thank you and be a short of our prayers for you God bless you