The Winners and Losers of the 2026 Grammys

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And I am joined as always by my friend Nathan Hubbard, who watched the Grammys on Sunday night.

Do you think share watch the Grammys?

“I think share participated in the Grammys from a higher plan of existence.”

That any of us could possibly hope to achieve. Wow. I mean, yeah, well, so we're going to do winners and losers, we're going to just talk about the show. I had a lot of fun watching the show.

I want to hear how you felt about it, because I know you entered with a little bit of trepidation, Nathan, but I will say that like the ending sequence between the fabulous Lauren Hill, D'Angelo Tribute, share, getting a lifetime achievement award that like maybe she knew was happening, maybe not walking off the stage, coming back. I don't know, it's record of the year.

That was the worst produced segment in the history of television, suddenly trepidation. Surprise, here you go, lifetime achievement award. Except that it's a testament to not producing well, then, because it was an incredible moment. It was, like, Kendrick thought it was so funny that Sharehead said that Luther Fiat draw

swine record of thinking, I mean, he handled it, like, the consummate pro. Oh, you cannot throw, you cannot throw Kendrick off his game. You was such a little cutie, just a big smile. I loved that suit. I thought his whole vibe was super fun.

But, like, from that moment through, bad bunny album of the year, sometimes once you get past 11 p.m. on the East Coast, I feel like you're just kind of, even though it's the big awards, you're like, all right, we're into the fourth hour of this and I need it to wrap up. Right.

And there were moments in the show when I was like, okay, this is dragging guys, let's pick up the pace. But that closing 20 minutes or whatever it was, I was thrilled. I was having the time of my life. So would it tell me a little bit of how it was green shoes or I loved our guy.

I thought that outfit was crazy. Oh, what was wrong with it?

First of all, all night, everybody's like, oh, Harry's not coming.

He's not showing. Just 'cause he didn't walk the red carpet. Great job by just making him a scarcity and just rolling it in through the hallways when it's time for Harry to come on, he's dressed somewhere between like super casual and super formal.

I still don't know. I'll let you tell me what that outfit was. He looked great and we got like a very handsome man hug between Bad Bunny and Harry style. Oh, my gosh.

I won't name names, but one of my friends, the fact that Harry did the, you know, the two fingers in the mouth whistle thing, congratulating Bad Bunny, that did a lot for a lot of people. Okay. And it did not go on notice.

I love Harry. I was so happy to see Harry.

“I think that there is a way to pull off like casual dressing for a formal event where”

you look like you don't, it's, you know, you're a little too cool for school in a good way. I was a little bit like Harry, this is not a jeans event. This is just simply not a jeans scenario and it looked incongruent to me, but that's fine.

Harry dressed very well. A little shiny, what, like, can I go back to the whistle thing? Was that like a heated rivalry situation for people? No, it's just, you know, it was, again, it's two hunky guys. There's sort of a mouth involved.

That's all. Okay. I thought it was a great moment.

It was a great moment. It was a great moment. And we've spent a lot of time talking about how Harry kind of left avoid that a bunch of people have been trying to fill and, you know, when we talk about ratings on this show,

don't, you know, they're, they're going to be down 9 or 10 percent year over year.

But last year was up 30 percent year over year.

“And that, I think, speaks to what an incredible year we had in 2024 with all of the pop”

girlies telling about and releasing amazing albums that, you know, with Beyonce in line to take it all, but you had a tailor and you had all the chapel in Charlie and Olivia everybody, Sabrina, all in line there. I, I just, I guess, you know, I think that this show was good all the way through. And like, everybody had been sort of waiting for that moment.

And my, my question to you is, with this gap, this vacancy waiting for somebody to fill Harry, it felt like we were being hand held into its bunny. Bunny's just going to happen all night, Trevor knows sitting next to him, doing the jokes. He's not playing clearly because he got to do the Super Bowl thing. But like, this show was all about bunny.

He wins the award. Did it feel at the end, like, the intention was for him to be the next big mail pop star or was that hug more of a, hey, these two guys can coexist? Oh, they can coexist, but I mean, if the question is does the bad bunny moment kind of live up to the vacancy that, like, I don't think that he fills the Harry vacancy.

“I think they are adjacent to each other, but not filling quite the same niche.”

But like, is it similar in scale and as exciting to me, like, bad bunny is my clear and

away first winner because I thought that first of all, it, the way that he played

the two wins winning for best music, or bonna, and then album of the year, taking the first win as a moment to get up there and pretty immediately make a statement about ice and make it specific and make it pointed and start off on that note, but we've talked to you it's common. Sure.

Yeah. And I'm glad they're hard to predict. Well, but you know what, like, there's, there's a way to approach that where, where you sort of say, like, it's unfair that those expectations have to be on this person and should he have to take it in that direction.

But like, to me, I just think it's very powerful that he did, I think it felt personal.

I think it felt appropriate. And then when he, he won for album of the year to have that be of the two moments. The one that was more, like, it was so personal and it was so emotional and I don't, like,

“I think this is just his genuine reaction.”

But that moment when he just sat in the chair with his hand on his forehead for like 15 seconds. And I'm so, yeah, like, I don't need to listen to this. It was really good TV. And it was more than that. Like, it's deeper than that.

But I was just like, this is, this is a compelling watch. Like, this is an exciting thing for the show to build, too. I usually, somebody's getting mauled right by their team or by somebody at their table. And he was just like there alone with tears in the spotlight. I don't, do you think that was a reflection of the pressure he was feeling?

You think that was a reflection of the expectations? I think, like, part of his charm is that he really, he, like, feels things. It seems like it's so, it's so hard, I think, to be in the moment in a moment like that. And he really seems like he lives that way. We're, like, wouldn't any of us want to take a few beats before going up there.

But we don't, because we go immediately to, okay, I have to hit my marks. I have to do this. I have to go. I think XYZ people and, like, he really seemed capable of letting it sink in and appreciating the moment, and I loved that.

You think there's going to be any more people who give that album a chance or is this, is there something about it that is just, like, foundationally inaccessible because it's not an English? I think both of those things are true. Like, but I also kind of, I think if somebody can't give it a chance, because it's not

an English, I, I absolutely know that tons of those people exist. Yeah. I don't really care to think about them, like, to have that little curiosity, I don't know, man. Like, but we talked about it with the Rosalie album, too.

the same reason, which is that it's just only accessible to a certain group of people

who are curious enough to understand another language. I guess my hope is that people who vote on these things care enough about craft to get the fuck out of here. Engage to that craft.

“I think, I do think that they, I think they do.”

I think they can award a non-English speaking album, clearly. Yeah. And so I, I don't think of the Rosalie album as the type of album that the odds are stacked against in a Grammy context. It obviously depends what the competition is and, and just kind of, what are the vibes

like in late fall of this year and going into voting. But I think of that as the type of album that is set up to succeed at, like with Grammy voters. Hmm. Well, we'll see. Let's get back to bunny because what I'm interested in is, I've had a handle the, the

same way Olivia Dean did, handled the statement, the political point, or the humanitarian compassionate point, I should say, very well. And usually what happens in those award shows is they win one. So they get up on stage and they get out all the core messaging that they want and that's before the big one, right? Then they win the big one and they can just sort of speak

with gratitude, which he did in basically different languages, which was also super cool.

But I just wonder, we got a super bowl next week, it is bad bunny a huge star in America. Yes. Okay. Yes.

“I think the fact that he is a Spanish language artist makes the fan base a little different.”

But to me, there is no question that he is huge, huge, huge, huge, huge. I don't think of him like to a similar point. I don't think of him and someone like Harry by which I really just mean Harry because right now it is basically just Harry as being in a one to one conversation because I do think, I mean Harry is a global artist but bad bunny is a global artist in a different way.

But I do think that he is unquestionably huge to me and if he, if there is any limit to that by the end of this week, right? I think that is signed sealed and delivered in a new way. Yeah. I also frankly don't think that he would be the super bowl, have time artists if he weren't already basically at that place but like, you know, it can only cement it.

Yeah.

Well, he had eight songs that streamed over a million times yesterday.

Taylor had five, so that's, I mean, look, there's this whole conversation, a very valid one about the surprising elements of him doing the halftime show. There is another way to look at it where, you know, particularly if you take into consideration that Taylor was at least soft approached and didn't feel like it was the right time. If she's out, he is next on the list of people who make sense of people who are popular

enough and exciting enough to do that unless they go in a super, you know, throwbacky direction which generally speaking in this era of the halftime show is not what they've done. Yeah. Who's your winner? Top winner.

“I'm with you that I think it's bunny. I think I'm just interested to see whether this”

telecast and the super bowl are going to elevate him in the fandom of English speakers. That's it. That's, so it's kind of like how when Taylor got massive, there were dudes, straight dudes showing up at her show. Yeah.

We'll see. Yeah, I just, it's a totally interesting element of it, but it also, he's not, he doesn't pander. Right? No.

Although I expect his Super Bowl show is going to be a political and super inclusive and super positive and that's going to be his pitch.

There's no doubt, but this is going to be a show where I expect that the creative direction

“of this show is that people are going to walk away and be like, whoa, was that great?”

Not like a, oh, this was just a show for MS now, if that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I think we think about it a little bit differently.

I find it hard to see how he can take that moment and not make some kind of statement out of it one that goes beyond, can't we all just get along? Like, I just think that he's capable of a little bit more than that. And I think he's a more interesting person than that. Yeah.

But I think that he's not going to, I think what I'm saying is that he's going to play a show that's for everybody. It's not going to be a message if can't we all just get along. But he's going to play a show that's going to undeniably be for everybody. I think there was some, it was, all of the political statements last night.

I thought were reasonable and for the most part non-cringy, but there's always moments

in those shows where it gets to be a little overboard. And where I think that there are historically this, this issue that was on stage last night is something different. And I don't need to get into the details of it. But my sense is that historically there have been a word show political moments that have

turned off large portions of the audience. I don't think that's what we're going to get from money. In fact, I think he's going, he's sort of in aisle show you mode because he's got a show that he's got a show that is for everybody. That's sort of what I mean by that is more resonant with me.

I just because if you're asking about, do I think that there are people who are not ever going to engage with it thoroughly because it's not an English? I don't think he's putting on a show for those people. I don't think that he and those, look, some of those people are at the Super Bowl, but I think the attitude and I think the right attitude is like, "Fuck him."

Because first of all, what else are you going to do? And second of all, it's just, it is to me not a valid way to approach art because it's fundamentally disengaged. Well, I think his objective is to broaden the audience, not narrow it.

“And I think that that's what the Super Bowl is going to be about.”

It's going to be about broader appeal. And I think he has a very interesting opportunity because he is the handsome guy at the moment because he just won album of the year because he has had the full moment, all the things that we talked about that he's been building up to the SNL show to be interesting to see if coming out of this, what actually happens with the streaming numbers and the

demo of the people who are coming to a show, there are shifts when you go into that next level. And he now, in addition to the numbers and the sort of pop culture support, he now has

the critical authenticity and let's see if people pay attention because if they don't,

then the Grammys are cute and fun and it's a nice little thing for your, you know, whatever exists in your house that you put your little awards on, but it, it, during a Grammy bounce. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a significant moment, but maybe I think it's more of a significant moment than you do.

Who's your next winner? I'm not Lauren Hill and Maxwell. We're fucking awesome. They're so good. They're so good.

Look, I really love the beaver performance and maybe he have bebes on your list somewhere. Yeah. But I actually thought it was terrific and vulnerable and this is me and I'm stripped down. And I, I don't know, I just loved the aesthetic of it.

There are some people online who are like, look at, look at Sabrina's show and how intricate and, you know, she's running around an entire airplane. She's got animals. She's got 100 dancers and here's Beaver and his underwear in front of a mirror. But that was sort of the point.

And there was the weird moment where he walked up and then came back. I was like, oh my God, this is great. That that was intentional. Did you think that that was kind of a curtain call? How do you think that at the end here is like, oh, I forgot it felt like an, oh, moment

to me.

“But it was, and that was the only thing.”

It was like, let's just call it what it is. There's probably some concern about whether Beaver can handle doing all of Coachella, much less going out and doing a full tour, which you might expect is something in the future that he's going to do. There's reasonable people would be concerned about that.

And I thought that most of the way through that performance, you'd be like, holy shit. Listen to him. He sounds great. He looks great. There's his wife like, wow, we're, you know, we're back.

know, it wasn't intentional. It's, they certainly didn't want to instill doubt in any Coachella goer as to whether

Justin's going to be there for the second weekend or show up for a set time.

That was not something that they wanted to do. So the fact that you and I are here like, I don't know. It was a little strange, like, on the scale of was that supposed to happen something wasn't right moments, there was the share thing, there was Alex Warren clearly having problem with his ear monitors and messing with his pitch.

“And there was, did Beaver just forget to turn off his loop machine?”

And I don't, in some order that's not clear to me, Beaver is, I don't think Beaver's third. Yeah. I, if I had to guess, I think he forgot to hit the button.

But it's funny in the moment it didn't even register to me as like the visual of the idea

of Justin Bieber walking off a stage before he's supposed to. In this moment is like a pretty loaded idea, right, because of the question of can he, can he go through with all of this? By that point, he was one of my winners. I was totally bought in on that performance.

I thought, as you said, the visual aesthetic of just like, it felt like it gave you a window into what it seems like it must feel like for him to be up there, which isn't, there's like, there was something a little uncomfortable about it because he was a person. It was uncomfortable. So vulnerable and like showcasing that vulnerability.

But this is what that album is. And yeah, and to do that song, but to do it without the vocal effect, I thought he sounded great. His voice sounded so good. It was great.

Because you know, doing the little Ed Sheeran act was funny. Correct. Can't evading though. I'll cross the board visually and acoustically captivating. It was really cool and it felt, it felt like because it showed so much of what he has expressed

a little bit and like talking about himself, but definitely through the music of what his experience as a performer is of like having this love for what he does, but also some discomfort in, that's him as a person being, yeah, no exactly. Like you could, you could sense all of that, and I thought that was just like a sight to be hold.

It gave me a lot of questions about how much of his Coach Ellis said, and then if he takes it on the road further than that, how much of it is going to be just in, you know, in his underwear or not, loop machine.

“And that's what I never say never, you can't play, isn't never say never with a loop machine.”

They're got no full show. I'll trip it down for a little bit, yeah, they'll be a moment. But like, I don't know, is 25% of the Coach Ellis, that going to be in that style. No, but there will be a three song set that's in that style, and more than three songs, I bet he's going to be shirtless, because why would he, but there was this like, haily

in the crowd over, like taking care of it, very Sharon Osborne, Esk, like, his public persona is wife guy. He is our wife guy pop star, like, that's, that's what Justin Bieber is right now. Well, there's, there's still some danger in it.

And so my big winner was Lauren Hill, because man, Lauren Hill is never shows up.

She never shows up for shows. I mean, I saw her at the Hollywood Bowl, and she came out late, and she did the show, but it was good, because she's great, but it was all over the place, and it felt a little loose, and it felt, last night was tight, and she, I turned to somebody I was watching the show with.

“I was like, how is she remembering the names of all these people?”

Like, she's not looking at a teleprompter, introducing everybody who was, Lauren Hill is not supposed to be able to do that much less wheeling to do that, and then here comes Wycliffe, and they do the Fujisong, and I was like, oh my God, I'm a huge dandelion fan, and so hearing those versions of the songs were right in my wheelhouse, whatever a wife guy is as a dandelion fan, that's me, but Lauren Hill, holy shit, like, she kind of

put herself back on the map as icon that we have to pay attention to, ironically in a weekend in which there was a lot of celebration, Mariah Carey. She was at the music hares dinner, she was the celebrant there, and it wasn't the most

and Lauren Hill suddenly came out as, all right, A1 Diva, we have to pay attention if she's going to show up,

“and she's going to perform like that, and she's going to remember the names of everybody”

she's introducing, and hit all of her marks and her cues and the bands going to sound like that, fucking bring on the Fujis reunion. It was funny, it was like you say it was, it was very tight and absolutely within that context of you're going, oh, is she going to show up, but it's going to happen here, but there also was still a looseness to that, because within the show, within the whole run of the show,

a lot of the performances, and I thought by a large, like, I liked almost all of the performances, but there are, wait, what? Because I said almost all, yep, I'm not going to defend that Alex Warren, like I felt bad for him,

“because it clearly got messed up, but like, I don't care for that song, it didn't go well,”

the earplugs were wrong, like, I don't, I don't need this, like, land-bound, Benson-boon variant, it's a waste of my time. Land-bound, Benz, I didn't feel like the Addison thing was great, I don't know that too. I agree with that too, I agree with that too, I will come from my fave, it felt, I don't know, so I went back, I genuinely went back and forth on Addison, because like,

she has ideas, like, what I love about her is that she has ideas and concepts and... Concepts of a plan. No, she literally has concept of a plan, like, she gives you something to chew on, but it also is not particularly refined, and like, it did feel like they gave her the, you know, VMAs coded, pre-taped from the loading dock, two-minute segment.

“I think we should talk about all the best new artists and those performances,”

but I will use that to illustrate, like, that's a section of the show where you're going

in these little, you know, 90-second to two-minute, like, 1-1-1-1-1-1-1, there's a fair bit of watching

any awards show, particularly one with performances, or you feel everything going, beat, to beat, to beat, to beat, hit, cue, hit, cue, next up, you know, coming up in a moment, after this break, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and there was a looseness and a just, like, taking time to have that performance, be able to go in all those different directions and bring everybody up and bring Wycliffe on and do that whole thing, and to just let it marinate a little bit,

and like, maybe that's because if Lauren Hill was going to say, yes, she was going to be like, I'll leave when I want to, like, you're not going to play me up. But I just, it was just, it just had such a fun energy, and also, like, no, I love Reba, but it's such a contrast to the in Memoriums where it's like, I'm going to sing a sad, serious song, and you're going to sit there for three and a half minutes and be like, oh, man, as opposed to celebrating, and like,

yeah, now we're taking these two languages. Yeah, it's just, like, maybe, yeah, again, I love Reba, I don't mean to be calling her out here, but like, I prefer this version of celebrating the lives, the great lives that I love Reba too. Can I tell you my conspiracy theory? Of course,

always, it's why we do this. So my conspiracy theory is that the value of catalogs, which is to say,

people talk about the catalog of music. They just mean, like, old music, that's been made already. The value of these catalogs is generating so much cash for record labels. It's like a massive portion of their income, and the profitability of releasing albums today is way less, A because you're paying artists more, but B because it's harder than ever to break artists, and so the economics of new releases is getting more and more difficult. So they can remind everybody that Reba

has songs, so we'll go listen to it. Well, not just Reba, but also the reason that they're spending more time in a larger percentage of the show on these artists. And John Mayers tribute to Bob Weir was was very touching, and we've seen him do that in a number of places over the past few weeks since Bob Weir passed. But like, you know, they spent a lot more time on these artists who've passed,

we'd like to celebrate and just remind people, it is mocking a valiant in some way. It's also

you know, the right thing to do to pay tribute to these artists who made such a difference. Because 20 years ago, you didn't have such a breadth of artists that you could celebrate that had impacted people in such a way because, you know, pre- Elvis pre-beodles, like we just didn't have that many recordings of stuff. It wasn't as ubiquitous and all these things, all these reasons why we're now getting into this time where more and more big stars are passing and they're

going to spend more time on that in the show. So anyway, that's my conspiracy theory, but I enjoyed it. I mean, I liked it. It was, it's a fun way to bring other artists in to pay tribute to remind folks

of, you know, what great music is and also to sort of connect what's happening now to what was then.

Totally, totally. And if there's one, if there's, if there's a treatment of that, that's going to make me, if that's the point, make me go back to the catalog and say, oh, yeah, I haven't listened to that in a long time, like let's go go press play. It is absolutely the Lauren Hill version of. Right. Well, so then to fast forward to where we were speaking about before, which is these

“best new artist things, I sort of get a little putoff by it because I think there's some weird”

nominees in this category sometimes. And the category itself had this stigma of being sort of, you know, like a wacky wild thing that maybe didn't matter. And in some cases was maybe a curse. But if you go back to 2000, just start there, turn to the century and look at the people who've actually won this award, it seems to me it fucking matters. Christina Alicia Keyes, Nora Jones, Maroon 5, Evan Essence, John Legend, Carrie Underwood, Amy Winehouse, Adele, Boni Verre, fun, which is

really jack, it's enough. McLean more Sam Smith, Megan trainer, chance the rapper, do a leap of Billie Eilish, Megan the Stallion, Olivia Rodrigo, Chapel Row, now there's a few others that you might say I'm not sure. Sam, our joy, Victoria Monet deserved it, but like, I felt like she'd been around for a while, Alessia Cara, Esperanza Spalding in to at 2011. I'm sure a great artist, not sure what happened there. Shelby Lynn, I love Shelby Lynn. So there's some that didn't sort of

break out, but boy, there are a lot that have become like canon. And so I would say that's a pretty

“good hit rate. It's a pretty good hit rate. And so I think paying attention to the winner matters”

now in ways that it didn't before, but it was interesting that they gave performances to all the best new artists, but not necessarily like the albums of the year. Do you think that's because of willingness? Yeah, probably. Because you're going to be able to get right, not everybody, you don't want to count on year in and year out that everybody who's nominated for album of the year is going to be willing to get up and do that. Whereas the best new artists are probably

the best new artists, the best new artists, hominies or their teams, like they're going to say yes, particularly if everybody else is doing this. It's why they all played the Spotify party on Saturday night or Thursday night. It's why they like they go out and they do that work because they still are ostensibly developing artists. Although I will say I talked to a couple of folks on Olivia Dean's team who, I mean, they've been working on Olivia Dean for a long, long time. And the best new

artists needs a new name. You know, somebody somebody on Twitter or something was like it should

be called breakthrough artists and that resonated with me. It's like best new artists. Some of

these folks have been around for Victoria Monet's an example. Yeah, I think breakthrough breakthrough artists would be more accurate. I can't say that's an issue that keeps me up at night, but I think it would absolutely be a more accurate way of describing the award. What was your reaction to any of the performances that we haven't touched on? No, I think the rest of the best new artist was fine. I mean, I understand why they did some taped and some live. I don't know how well it

all spliced together. But it was fine. And I thought Olivia, you know, Olivia really shines.

“She really does. She just radiates this joy. And I think that's why she's got the trophy. And”

why she's selling out arenas in big cities right now. It's just people are gravitating to something that isn't divisive and that isn't hard and that isn't work and that just feels light. And that's what she projects. And she's really, she's really refined. I find her and there are things about this that I actually don't gravitate to. I'm the person who wants it to be a little bit harder. I think

someone like Addison Ray. And again, where my mind goes is, I think this person's idea of what it

“means to do this is sort of fascinating. But like you see a lot of seams and you watch that”

performance and you go like, okay, this isn't quite, this is a concept of a plan. And then like, in my heart of hearts, that's the type of thing that I like want to see praised. But then Olivia gets up there and does everything and it's undeniable. Like she's just so, so talented. She does have such a warmth. She's so ready. Like she, I mean, she's been singing that song on every show and everything and every, you know, you're hearing it left right in center. And there's a little baby

giraffe in her still. Like she's still getting her sea legs up there in a certain way. I don't know. I went, when we did her out, the takeaway for me was Olivia Dean is really, really good. And the only question is whether she's going to be absolutely great. And through the course of this award season, I feel like her performances have been stepping up and stepping up. She's easy to look at. That's for sure. There isn't anything like remarkable about the live performance, though, is there?

It's like she's busting a Mariah Carey or a, you know, Arianna run in your face that you didn't expect. No, and there's not, I mean, I think it's just singing the song. There's also not, it's a beautiful song. But there's also, like, if you're going to use the word remarkable, there's not that much remarkable about the song. It's magic is that it, you know,

“it's magic and also the thing that you can hold against it if you want to, is that it feels like”

a wedding reception song. Like, it, it, it so does the band. The band looks like a wedding reception band. Yes, and I don't know if it was just it being in the context of like, we saw Bruno Mars twice last night. And I actually liked the, you know, sort of, if Gwen Stefani and Avrilovine had a baby, and that baby was singing the opita version of that. I felt that was kind of fun. But like,

there were moments last night that got a little bit the third hour of a wedding reception to me.

Right. And maybe it was just that in that context, I was a little bit like, yeah, I like this. I don't know that I have a strong emotional reaction to it, but then she gets up there. And she just seems like such a warm person. She spoke so thoughtfully about her grandparents, and then I'm in. And I'm like, I'm totally rooting for this version. It was a good speech. No doubt about it. I, I, I, look, I generally would say, and this is going to over-generalize.

I think after last year, this was a down year, not just in ratings, but also in, like, mass appeal of the music. Like, I don't know that this was like a, we just didn't have as much.

“I said this in the preview, right? I guess maybe that's why I didn't feel like I was”

massively excited, although I think there are a lot of really amazing stories that come out of these things every year.

This was in a year where, like, I just will never forget 2024, as you and I kept trying to think about,

this really when you and I took our show from being about Taylor Swift and Harry Styles to being about pop music, because we got what I think in hindsight is going to be one of the all-time years in music. We just kept listening to albums and calling each other and being like, holy fuck, we have to do this one. Because it's an A. And oh my god, Charlie X, X came late, and we were like, this is really fucking good. And then Sabrina came in August, and we were like,

"This is really fucking good. Are we crazy? Like, have we just like missed the bar?" And we're just being like, "Wus is in our grading or something now." But no, in hindsight, it was a really, really big year. And you know what? The industry is allowed to have a year with stuff that's pretty good, and there's lots of stuff to celebrate, and in some of the individual categories, there's really great stuff, but in terms of like all timers, I don't know that we had an absolute

all-time or this year. And that is just fine. But yeah, was reflected a little bit in the show. And all that said, I thought there was good energy from start to finish. There were some funny moments, as you said, the last 20 minutes were worth your time if nothing else for the unintentional comedy of it all. Well, and also, I totally agree with you, but the lack of, sometimes the lack of obvious heavy hitters makes room for some unexpected moments. Like, another winner that I had was Lola Young.

I don't love that song. I honestly also didn't love her performance of it. No, no.

It just felt too much. I love Taylor. Yeah. No, there are there are Lola Young songs that I think are great. I don't, I think in general, I've just heard that refrain on social media a little bit too much. And I just can't take it anymore. I thought the performance, it just got really serious. Yeah. All that said, yeah. I will remember her getting up after winning best pop solo performance, which absolutely no one her included thought was going to happen.

Her odds were in the toilet up to win that. That was just the surprise of the night.

“I will remember that moment for a long time. And she is an undeniable winner to me for that.”

And even if like, it's not always my cup of tea, knowing a little bit about what she

has explained she deals with in terms of addiction and mental health. Well, we start flipping away stage at the, all things go festival. Yeah, it's a 10 backwards. Yeah. Like five months ago or whatever that was. And so to see her have that moment now, I loved watching it. I thought, you know, she's just swearing up there and making absolutely no bones about the fact that she had nothing prepared and thought there was no

chance. And so I thought that was really, really cool. It was one of those wins where there's a lot of people in the industry who are all looking at each other. Like, I imagine the Hall of Fame voters are looking at each other about this bellachick thing. Although, maybe the bellachick thing was actually billpolly and like on event data, you're the football reporter. You'll help me parse that. But this was one where people were like, whoa, that was a vote split. Because it's hard to imagine that it was

“anything but that. And that's fine. It's great. That's why we have a voting system that is. It's”

about who gets the most votes. But there were some splits there. And I imagine Sabrina got some of those votes. And I imagine that Gaga got some of those votes. And, you know, there were a few other candidates. And I think it just sort of the chips fell the way that they did. And sometimes you get lucky in your win. Yeah. It did like this was one that made me wonder if if like ranked, ranked choice voting might be something worth thinking about. But at the same time, like these moments, they are exciting.

Like, you want the winner to be representative of not of like a weird vote splitting scenario, but of actually sort of what the will of the voting body was. But we live in an electric world. And that's how it happened. But it was cool anyway. Yeah. She beat Justin Bieber, Daisy Sabrina Carbenterman child, Lady Gaga disease, Chapel Row in the subway. She beat four super deduper stars. And they only take away for me as that they're just was a big split vote. And that's fine.

Good for her. It's awesome. It gave us that fun moment. I'm not sure it's a big career about for her. But I think she's got sort of other stuff to figure out. That's it. It's going to talk about a stableizing force for her and a reminder that there are a lot of people out there who who voted for her over those people and that, you know, if she can get her get her life stabilized, that she's got a huge opportunity in the industry. Okay. I think at the end of this,

we can, if you feel like we've missed anything, we can go back and go through any other extra winners unless you have a big one that I'm missing. Otherwise, I think we should, should do the losers. Well, I mean, I hate to say it, but I mean, it's share, but it's not, it's old people in general.

No, share is a winner. That was amazing. I loved that. Oh, man. It just, like,

share can mess up my name anytime she wants. Well, she didn't really, she messed up the whole, I did the whole thing. It was just, it was as low a young said, messy. And to me, it was like, hey, if you're going to put a 79 year old person out on stage, who is so famous that she has to live in a bubble a little bit, right? She has to. You got to help her out, man. And you got to have the, the, the run of that part of the show has to be locked down. Why are we like jumping in with

Noah to present? Did we lose a presenter, maybe, who was going to come out and introduce her?

“And I wonder. And like, that's what it felt like to me. Maybe there was supposed to be somebody”

who was going to present her with, you know, icon award or whatever it was, lifetime achievement award.

by the way, we just gave you a really big award that usually we give people a standing

ovation for three minutes when we call them out. But now we're just dropping it into your lap. That would be confusing to my dad for crying. My dad would fucking he couldn't handle it. So I don't know what you're doing to us. So now, and then to ask her, I don't know. She, she didn't even know what she was doing out there because then you forget, oh, right,

“I've just been given this huge award. You remember that. And you forget, oh, I actually was supposed”

to come out and do this other job. You don't surprise old people. It's not all so she was wearing kind of like a mermaid-style dress. Like it had, it had a skirt that was fairly tight to her legs, most of the way down her legs. And so when she walked off, like, she can't walk that fast in it. So she's sort of like doing little mini steps. That's so good. Bye. And then she has to do everything I'm watching. It's like, no, she forgot to announce. No.

Unfortunately, I thought it was, I really was laughing. And I had a nice time. And I felt like I was laughing with her. And she didn't really get a chance to be like, I mean, I saw her apologize to Kendrick. I guess I just have such a reference for share that to me, I'm like, it's an honor to have share a mess up your saw. Yeah. Yeah. But like, there is a paying respect to your elders part of this that got me upset. Like, yeah, you know, when your grandparents want to ask the kids questions,

it's a little bit, you know, patronizing. It's a little cringy for the kids. But the kids out of respect, they sit there and they answer the questions and they don't pretend. But everybody in the room knows that maybe these aren't the best questions or what do you know what I mean? Like, you give some grace to the older folks, but you help them through it. And then it's done and then you're over. But you don't just throw her out there on live TV and throw three curveballs at her

and expect her to carry 10 minutes of live television. I don't know. Somebody should do it. She absolutely carried it. I really hear your point. And it's a good one. We can't entirely rule out that that happened and that share just sort of went, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do whatever I want. We can't totally roll that out. Oh, the diva situation probably was on full effect. And part of what I'm saying is whoever is still representing her should have jumped in front

of that bullet, even if share was like, fuck you guys, I've got it. And like, got high as shit in the

“back room with fucking, you know, Leon Thomas or whatever. Like, I think, or maybe John mayor was”

sitting back. No, a con was back there. He's definitely no con brought to you by MasterCard drives a

red four. Yeah, let's go MasterCard. Me getting got for a second year in a row after God did it last year

of that fucking MasterCard commercial. What was your vibe on it? I mean, thumbs up, thumbs down, is it too corporate? Is it just fine? You know, it's so weird because it's like on the one hand and I did what I was taking notes. I wrote this down. It's like on the one hand, they are paying their advertising and sponsorship dollars for me to watch a music video instead of, yeah, tell us full-ass music video instead of watching for the ninth time the dual-lingo bird

licking my screen. And so in that sense, like, did you not get the dual-lingo bird? Were you not getting that ad? People I'm confident are going to back me up on this, at least in certain, I don't know if it's markets who your TV provider is, whatever. Like, every commercial break there was a commercial where it was just like the, you know, the green dual-lingo bird. Yeah, yeah. It was like the dual-lingo bird came up to the, you know, to the glass on my screen and just licked it. And that was it.

Cooler if it was dual-lingo dressed as a bird licking your screen. Yeah, you're right. I would have

“enjoyed that. But anyway, this was better than some of the dog shit. Do you know what I'm saying?”

It's like, I want to not be a total just like boo corporate boo, which is always my instinct

because again, I got to watch a music video instead of watching advertisements. It's just that you don't know at the beginning. So you get into it. And then that moment where it's brought to you by MasterCard, it's like a ton of bricks. It's a fucking bummer. Like, sorry. I'm having fun with it. And I felt the same way when Gaga did it. It's just like, well, the Casey Musgraves ad from a couple years ago was a little bit,

So this go round. Yeah, they picked, they picked their partner and they went for it. So yeah,

“I think we had to go back to calling people sell out. It's the only way forward.”

Maybe. Because in our current landscape, like, I don't know what else I expect from anyone, but also we live in hell. So yeah, it wasn't my general. It wasn't cool. It's not cool. It's not cool. I don't know. It's a punishment for that. But it wasn't cool. Yeah, for as much as I'm racking on it here, if I'm honest, there will not be punishment for me.

I don't think that that experience made me any less likely to partake in the no-con experience going forward. Just as it did not affect my experience with Gaga. Yeah, there is something of, like, I wasn't important enough to be on the show.

And so now I'm doing it here. It doesn't feel like I'm a rebel, which the first time or two it did.

Now it feels like, well, but then it was like, well, no, you were in the crowd. So what, yeah, what you've got to do with the tension. Can I bring us back quickly to share? This actually isn't really, I have, I did have a small conspiracy theory that the Promptor was really small. The, like, part of the problem was that the teleprompter was not, either the font wasn't big enough or it was too far away or something. Because

“remember when Chapel got up to present, but she's blind. Have you ever seen her out?”

And she has the thickest coke bottle glasses. She is true. So blind.

But she gets up there. Looks like a total, like, hostage video. Yes.

She. Well, last year, remember she was yelling at people who were yelling at her on the red carpet. This year, again, they were yelling at her and she just sort of, she's not doing it. She's like hard. No, thank you. Yeah. So she's like, I can't wear my glasses. I can't see shit. You're putting up a teleprompter. All I'm trying to do is write a sophomore album that follows hot to go. That's fucking hard. Leave me alone. Yeah, that's the vibe right now.

And I kind of love it. She has some really, really valid points. It is just like, without sounding like an asshole, executive, giving her a talking to the people who would kill for the career that Chapel is having. I just just, it's like, I'm so not into it. Yeah. And you know what? It's fucking kind of cool. It is kind of cool. It is really kind of cool. It's part of the, it's part of the, all of that is, it is her thing. And so, but last night,

I don't know, I felt like she was playing a little bit of a character or it was an opportunity for her to say something. I was sure when she got up there, she was just going to be like,

“fuck ours. Yeah. I think she just is like, I'm going to do as little as possible tonight.”

Other than other than other than with the dress. But she, I take your point that she wears big glasses, but she had to do the thing where she leaned into squint at the promtor. She seemed to think something was going to be on the promtor and it wasn't. I feel like there was one more moment where someone like seemed to not quite be able to, between that and like the Alex Warren thing, with his ears being off, I'll just say that the, the guy from the airs tour, who we think should

do air traffic control at Newark Airport, like, I think the CBS practice could have charged. He was not in charge. He was not in the room. Yeah. C-performance for the, for the AV situation last night, that's fair. Okay. So you're, was that you were doing a loser and you said just old people in general, because I just don't, I don't like which one was like, you know, I just don't like when old people get publicly embarrassed. And somebody should have done that. Sarah is not old. Sarah is ageless.

I just mean you can't, like you got to do it right. You got to take care of these folks. I agree. I know. I think that's a really nice sentiment. Somebody should have been out there with her. Yeah. And Trevor Noah was not up to that task. Respect to elders. I have another loser. I did have the Promptor down as one of my losers. And I also had Alex Warren, but I, I mostly felt bad, so I don't need to rag on him anymore. So Billie Eilish wins song of the year for wild

I just don't think that that very much of last night moved any sort of Billie Eilish needle. Well, that said that song should not have won. And it shouldn't have won for a few reasons. One of them being that it came out in 2024. That's the biggest reason. It's some dumb. It's so dumb. And she is somewhat responsible for this because because they because of the timing when they released it as a single.

It was eligible to be submitted for this category this year. And Billie, team Billie, went ahead and did that. Which is fine. That is completely within their rights to do. It is like, you know, in the same way as I'm saying maybe we need to bring back a little bit of

“sellout culture. I think there's such a thing as liking awards too much.”

And playing all of those types of games and doing stuff like that is is a little bit of a signal in that direction. But there's a really easy way around this, which is just changed the rule. Like the loser to me is the fact that you can do that kind of calendar shenanigans

in the first place. It shouldn't matter when you put it out as a single. I get it if it's like

a remix and something that has been changed as music. But if it's just about like when you're promoting this song in a specific way, I don't think that that should alter what years and in what competition it gets evaluated for a Grammy. Yeah, I don't think the category had a whole lot of good stuff in it. Like I don't know, Abra Cadabra, anxiety, opita, the bunny song, golden, Luther,

“man child. I really like man child, you know that. So I was going to say you wouldn't have like”

to see, I mean Sabrina. I would have. I would have. I would have and I didn't like seeing Sabrina shut out. And I also don't think that there was any like massive clear holy shit this song got completely snubbed moment. And when you again look at like what are the last 15 years in this category

look like? First of all, it's crazy that Billie Eilish has three of the last seven. Yeah. And I can't

help feeling like the Academy loves her. They shut out, hit me hard and soft. That was a very good album. There reasons why it didn't win what it didn't win. But some people felt badly and the label released this and they pushed it. And here we are. But I mean single ladies, one in 2010, need you now rolling in the deep. We are young, royals, stay with me, thinking out loud. Hello, there's some real winners in there. What was I made for his Billy, not like us, wildflowers,

more recent like there's some other stuff for sure. I don't know. I mean just like that is the Bonnie Rates song that won that made everybody's jaw hit the floor in 2020. I went back and listen

to that today. And I was like, first of all, Bonnie Rates is the shit. Okay, she wrote,

well, she didn't write. I can't make you love me. But she performed it. She, you know, have a heart like all these songs, she's made songs great. And that one, I was like, this is what we're giving. This is the one I came with this. That's the same with this. This is there are great Billie Eilish ballads. This to me is not one of them. It's not, it's not. And my point is just like, this is some of the silliness of the Grammy situation. Yes.

Like, it's just silly. And I think, yeah, it seems like two things happened. One is that I think a lot of people us included overestimated the degree to which there was going to be enthusiasm for golden for K-pop demon hunters. And I think you could tell a little bit early on that it maybe wasn't going to go that way when Ariana and Cynthia won Best Pop Duo for Define Gravity, overgolden, overopata, which like, not that that sets anything in stone. But that to me was a

little bit of like a ha. That's interesting. I really thought that people were excited to vote for either one of those songs. And I wonder if that was a little bit overestated. And then the other

“thing is that like, you know, you have to imagine that there was some vote splitting there as well,”

right? Like, maybe Gagon Sabrina and this splitting. I think that happened in a couple of cases

Yeah. Well, that's what I mean, look, like, I would have, I would have, even though you know,

“it's not my favorite of her songs. I think Sabrina would have been a worthy winner. I don't think”

it matters enough for her. Like, I thought about, okay, Sabrina Carbender gets shut out of the Grammys. Does that mean that she's a loser? And in my, my honest reaction was like, no, she did a great performance. It was really fun. She could like it. Don't get me started. Man's best friend. If you really squint, it's actually her sophomore album. And short and sweet was this magical transformational record that is would be the same challenge that Chapel has or that Olivia had

to follow up and go really hit a home run with the second album. And in that light, this was

nominated for album of the year. It is clearly established her as in the flow, pop culture, for as long as she wants to be in it across multiple mediums, by the way, film TV. Oh my, I will see this. So it's a wish. This show. So this is the last Grammys that's going to be on CBS. It's now going to be on Disney. Like, you can see it on, I don't entirely know how it's going to work next year, but it's like under the Disney umbrella company that Sabrina Carbender has some relationship

with. She should host, like she could host this show. And it would be really fun. Like, she's so on her marks. She's silly. I don't know why she had a bird, but it was fun to be sitting on the couch and being like, to Sabrina have a real bird. And she did. So she, so she's not a loser all the time. No, the bird was fine. I loved the bird. But I thought maybe the bird was supposed to do more tricks or something. The bird hadn't maybe had a little bit of a

share moment to be honest, but but the bird is fine. Bird isn't I checked out. Do you think the bird was going to do like a back flip? Maybe just like it's worth it. It's worth it. I don't know. Benson Bird, Boone. It had an Alex Warren type moment, but Sabrina Carbender, like, loser, the bird. Sabrina Carbender, like, I mean, you send the bird out with, you send the bird out with Sabrina. Somebody's got to go out with Share. You need a, send, okay, send Sabrina out with Share. I actually

“firmly believe it wouldn't have happened on Sabrina's watch. And that's why she should host this show.”

Great point. All of that said, though, it would have been nice to see her go home with an award. And I don't know. Like, maybe this would have been the category where it could have happened. I just, it was a lonely young category. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm talking about one of the big ones, um, but that's true. That's true, too. Okay, calendar shenanigans. We talked about Alex Warren. We talked about the prompter. We talked about, we talked about Addison Ray relegated to

the loading dock. We talked about Sabrina. Do you have any other losers? Ice. Ice got definitely torched all week. That's, I didn't mind. Um, we really talked about Gaga. Yeah.

“And I don't know what to think because I, I think I, you and I have sort of made our”

feelings about this album clear. And I, I know you have a little bit more, I, I, I, I liked it. Fine. I just didn't feel like it was an album of the year nominee, but then I respected how much work she did to put herself in the conversation in a particular way that she helped us visualize the album through her live performances, starting with that mastercard commercial, but then extending into Coachella where you just were like, holy shit. Like, this is a thing.

But she hasn't won a, one of the big four categories. She's won a lot of Grammys, but she's

never won one of the big four. And I'm okay with that because I, I think if there was a song that

might have won, it would have been shallow, right? Um, but so I wonder how she feels about it. Like, she got recognized. She got a Grammy. She got up there. She got to thank Michael. It was great. She got to like jump scare bunny and she got to like, how many angles can we film Lady Gaga in a basket? There was that performance that was, you know, some weird shit,

do you feel about it? I think it's a vestige of an era when the Grammys had a little bit more bias

“against dance pop. Like, I actually didn't right now. I think that if you are, our conversation”

before the show clarified this for me a little bit. Like, I actually think that they've done a pretty good job of getting the voting body in a place where vis-a-vis hip hop vis-a-vis pop, they're not quite as out of touch as sometimes they seem and have seemed in the past. I think right now the real blend spot is country, but when Gaga, like, Gaga 1.0 was winning genre category Grammys and getting nominated for Grammys, I think when the Grammys just

were not ready for what she's doing. And that's unfortunate, but that's pretty far in the past. I don't, I really like this album. It doesn't strike me as like a deep injustice that

“Gaga didn't win a big for Grammys for Mayhem or for Abercadabra. I think you could tell that,”

like, especially the other, the two kind of signal awards from the early show to me were when Define Gravity 1, that was surprising and it was a little bit of a, like, huh, not sure what this means for K-pop demon hunters. And then the other one was when Circuit 1, I started thinking, I think some of these, like, particularly in the pop categories, Gaga is going to get some wins, but maybe not necessarily, but like, I didn't think that that applied to the really big ones.

And I actually thought that, like, her haul was ultimately pretty appropriate because it's a

great pop album, but I don't think that, like, stacked up against everything else that was nominated that it was bad that she didn't win. It was funny when she had, she had Circuit an Andrew Watt up there, right? Yeah, she really wanted them to get closer to her. And she was like, get closer to me. And then she turned the camera and said, I want to say to all the female artists that I know you can be really uncomfortable with people in the room. And I just wanted to fight for

“yourself and go, and I just imagine those guys being like, yo! Why did you have to get me in frame for this?”

Why did you pull me closer only to talk about bad producing experiences? What? Why do I have to be in all of the photos about your speech about how uncomfortable it is to be in a recording studio with men? Come on. I want that too. It was very funny. Can I be the best of what she meant? But can I just interject a piece of breaking news? Please. The Kelly Clarkson show is coming to an end. Oh, which isn't that big of a deal, but we talk about

pop music a lot. And in particular, Kelly Clarkson is one of our great American cover artists. And she covers all of these really great pop artists. And I am going to miss Kelly Okie tremendously. Kelly Okie is fabulous. I don't know about her. I want to see. I think actually,

sometimes she's, I never watch it. I never, I never seek out an entire episode of the Kelly Clarkson

show. But I've seen clips of some of her interviews. And sometimes she can be like a pretty emotionally intuitive interviewer. I think. Like Kelly Clarkson has some. Well, that's all done now, Nora. That's, well, I can, that's okay. I've shared this with you that I two years ago when the Super Bowl was in Las Vegas went to see her residency. Right. And it was fabulous. And I love Kelly Clarkson. Well, congrats to her. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I didn't mean to take us off the rails.

That was kind of a share moment for me. Honestly, I thought someone was going to be dead. So no disrespect to the Kelly Clarkson show within that context. That was a relief to hear. Let's move on. Sorry. Let me get back to announcing record of the year. Record of the year goes to Luther Vandross. Gagga. Gagga was fine. I was happy with Gagga. I didn't think like, you know what I wish? I kind of wish that she'd done a different song. Yeah. I feel

like I've heard that I could have ran off. And I saw her last year. Yeah. Brought to you by masterguard.

in that. She couldn't in a version of that. I thought that she gave it a world to give it a different texture by like rocking it up so much. But I have just heard that song so much and seen her performance so many times. Can I have that? Do you want me? Now that that would have been inspired. She could have come out of a blonde wig and done a fat team. The whole thing. Really funny. I thought that I even though I was in LA last night, by the way. But did she show up at a Grammy

party? Interesting. I did give Addison Ray and Katzai. I thought both did something cool where I guess I would have expected Addison to do diet Pepsi and just to do the most like low hanging fruit and same thing with Gabriella. And I thought that there were some choices in there were some song choices that were a little bit unexpected and brave and interesting. And like I wish that Gaga had done that a little bit rather than just do another Addison Ray. But that's okay.

“I think that this is a better show now than it was a decade ago as far as I'm totally.”

I feel like I would like to see a few more awards. But I think they've done a good job of the only thing that I really missed this year. It just didn't have that Grammy moment that they talk about. The really big one that we're going to remember, I guess you said it's low or young. I just think that was such an upset that I don't know how much I don't think that that's the moment. I think that that funny had a moment. I think that that was a memorable data point in the developing

history of a big artist. He was he looked great, kept it classy. The first ever custom

menswear look by Scaparelli. Okay. Trust me that it matters. Trust me that it's cool. I'm trusting you. I'm trusting you that it matters. It was cool. I saw it myself.

“But that's the only thing that it missed. And that's why I got sort of pissed off about the”

share of things because I just didn't want that to be the takeaway. I don't think. I think first of all, we got to see how the rest of the week goes because it's bad bunny week in America. It is bunny week. But I think that he, through circumstances outside of his control, he found himself being recognized in a way that he has not been before. Not that Grammys are the

most important thing to him, but it's a new form of adulation for someone at a professional peak

who also happened to be in a situation, again, outside of his control, where a really politically salient issue, where tensions are incredibly high, intersects with his personal experience and his experience as an artist. And I thought that he

“handled it perfectly. And I think that that will go down as something that we, the collective we”

remembers about bad bunny. So that to me was the moment, like far in a way that is how I will remember this Grammys. Well, let's see. I hope it's a good bad bunny week. I'm excited to see the Super Bowl half-time show. Maybe you can talk me into getting excited about the game. I don't know, but

yeah, let's see. Let's see what bunny does. To me, it is at this moment in time with the critical

claim and the popular culture tailwind can he leverage this moment to expand his audience even more. And if he doesn't, he is a superstar, that's not the debate. I'm just noticing one thing that I really wanted to ask you about that I forgot to bring up, which is, did you see how much jelly roll was kissing his wife? I mean, he said beaver's wife guy. Jelly roll seemed like a woman's guy. Definitely. No jelly roll was doing a lot of making out. And that is also how I remember this

Grammys. Jelly roll wife make out. Yeah, I literally in my notes, it says jelly roll is really kissing his wife. And that's great. Good for jelly roll. Oh, that was smoothies. We're leaving. We're leaving on that thought, but that was the Grammys. And my expectation is that most people will

some ways as it was meant to be consumed. I just wonder if if part of the reason that the overall

“viewing is down is because we just, we just didn't have that, oh my god, moment.”

All right. This has been every single album. I'm Nora Princeyate as always. He's Nathan Hubbard.

Thank you to Kyle McAllen for producing this episode. And we'll talk to you next week.