BONUS | Who was Tony Popic?

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Hi there. I'm Dominique Bands. This bonus episode of Expans, The Nannup 4 is going to be a little bit different to what you've heard so far.

As the podcast has been rolling out, we've had a bunch of people get in touch. So today, I'm going to bring you an update of what's come to light in the past few weeks. And a big one.

For the first time ever, Tony Poppitch's family

are going to talk. You need me sitting with this new my face. So what's that? We angle you. Yeah.

And we've had hundreds of comments on the YouTube episodes. And one of them was wondering where Tony's family are. Well, I've actually been in touch sporadically with Tony's brother Joe for months, but he's been really reluctant to speak, which I totally get.

It's been really hard memories to revisit. You know, he didn't like you. Like, maybe just bring yourself a little bit. Like there, yeah. But after hearing me give an interview on the radio about the podcast,

he got in touch and said he was ready to talk. I wrestled with the idea of on and off for a lot of times, and most of the time it came that I wasn't going to talk to you. So here is the extended chat I had with Joe about his brother Tony. The one of the now-up four who's been the hardest to get a sense of.

It's a Friday afternoon when I drive up to Perth through those forests of the southwest. Joe's just knocked off work, and he's wearing a black cap, metal framed reading glasses, and hi-vis. I'm struck by how similar he looks to Tony. They could almost be twins.

He's got the same olive skin, round face, and piercing eyes. When Joe smiles, it's that same boyish smile I've seen in photos of Tony. I can tell he's pretty nervous to be here. Let's just to start off, so we've got you in your own words.

“Do you just want to introduce yourself and tell me what your connection is to Tony?”

Yeah, absolutely. Well, my name's Joe. Obviously, I'm Tony's brother. Three years younger. He's obviously three years older. And yeah, we live together, work together. And we just, you know, we did what brothers did got up to some mischief, and just, you know, party didn't, you know, jerked around,

and just did what young guys did at the time. Yeah. Joe starts telling me about his and Tony's childhood in 2J, a farming town about an hour and a half drive, northeast of Perth, on the edge of Ways' wheat belt.

Tony was the second oldest of four siblings,

and his family ran a fruit and veg shop, and Joe and Tony would help unload produce from trucks, serve customers, and carry their groceries to the car. We often talked as we got older, and we looked back, and we thought we were probably doing 12 hour days as 15 or 16 year old kids,

you know, and you look back down, you think that's a pretty full on day, but we were happy to do. It was good fun. How would you describe Tony's personality as a kid? As a kid, he's going fun, light, very light energy, you know, like just a good fun kid to be around.

As he got older, he sort of progressed around, you know, be the painting and stuff like that, a bit out, he that way, went down that field for a little bit. He was quite talented, but didn't really do much with it. He just did it as a hobby.

He locked his garden, wherever you sort of move to,

you always made a bit of a garden or some foreplains or something,

if some sort. This makes me think of Tony as an adult, taking on handyman jobs and working at the nursery, where he sold Jody that bronze horse statue. We eventually moved to Norma, I think,

“I left there in about, I think it was 92.”

To move into Perth. To move to Perth, yeah, and I literally needed the roadmap to find Main Street, which was just over the hill. What about Tony, how did he adjust to city life? Yeah, I think he loved it.

What was your friendship or relationship like with Tony? How would you sum that up? Pretty open, really. You know, we didn't argue, but we could squarely each other and call each other whatever we wanted.

Now, I've got offended. You know, you just got over it and just moved on. It did Tony kind of take you under as wing, when I guess like going out and doing that sort of stuff as you moved into adulthood.

No, not really, I couldn't keep up with him. You know, he was a bit cosmopolitan.

Yeah, I think he thrived on the night club scene for a while.

Did you ever go night clubbing with him? A couple of times. Yeah, it wasn't really my thing. So I just stayed for a couple of drinks and then kind of went home. He was quite happy just doing his own thing.

Yeah, he'd be on the dance floor pretty quickly and I was probably a bit shy and I'd rather have a drink at the bar while he's out there dancing, strengthening stuff. But yeah. In the early 90s, two clubs dominated the Perth night club scene.

Pinocchio's and rumours. They were opposite each other on Murray Street in Perth CBD. It's a good dancer here at the moves. Yeah, a lot better dancer than me, that's for sure.

“What do you remember about him when he was in his early 20s?”

He kept himself a lot. Just I think at the time when we came to Perth, he made some close friends at the time and they just sort of stuck together really. It wasn't a big social network, kind of specific. A couple of really good close friends.

He was a very open person. He was non-judgmental to most people or most things and very open and accepting. And so insane, that he just developed a pretty carefree sort of nature towards life and lifestyle.

In his 20s, when he wasn't on the dance floor, Tony was living in a beachside suburb of Perth with a company car and a good salary. Working a nine to five job for a major supermarket. He was stable.

He was focused.

“He was, I suppose, if you like, go orientated”

and had some purpose in his life. Yeah, at that time. He provided himself on his grooming. Yeah, he's very particular on his grooming and very fussing.

I always used to say to him, whatever you touch turns to gold.

But when Tony was in his late 20s, that all changed. As we know, in 1996, Tony left a long-term relationship quit his well-paying job and he also gave away a lot of his possessions. He had some really expensive watches and he just gave them away. And just, I said, whatever you watch here goes, I'll give it away.

I didn't need that sort of stuff anymore. That means nothing to me. It's not like an overnight thing. It was a gradual thing. And I had no desire for anything materialistic

in any way, shape or form, any materialism, any way, shape or form. It started to grow here long and all that sort of stuff. You know, where the happy pants is always to call them and listen to the gurus on what we'll see these back then, you know? What did you make of that when I guess started to change in that way?

“We would do a few of these alternate type seminars if you want to call them that for a better word.”

And I remember going with him to one because I was living with him at the time. And I thought, I'll get along and have a listen to see what someone sort of trying to preach to him, you know? I remember parking there and walking in there. I might have been, I don't know, 50 hundred people there or something like that. Some so-called gurus, spreading his words up in front of everybody.

I sat there under sufferings, you know, truthfulness. But, um, yeah, I don't remember much of it. Just remember thinking it was later, 'cause what? What was the kind of geist of like the theme of what they were talking about? Yeah, it was along the lines of, you know, get rid of all your positions.

Follow what I'm going to tell you and, you know, he's shining the light and follow his path basically.

I think he was just looking for answers really, you know, whether they're in the right place that I don't know. As we left, I said, you know, I gave him my opinion, what I thought of the whole thing. I think he was just quite happy to follow something and, unfortunately, what he followed, led to his just a little bit of delusional state, really, at the end of the day, and became vulnerable with his life and his lifestyle and his thoughts.

It's hard to pin down dates with Joe, but by 1999, Tony's life became pretty nomadic. He left Perth and travelled around Australia. He went to Nimbin for a while, spent some time there, he spent some time in Darwin, he liked Darwin. Queenslandy Trevor and there for a bit. In 2002, Tony was back in Perth.

And as we know, had moved into a house in Florida with Simon Cadwell and Shantel McDougall. Joe vividly remembers going to check out Tony's new place and meeting Simon. I thought I'll go and say, you know, catch up, have the beer with him or something. And I've got the news, living at the back in the back out in a tent. It's a four bit remaining part of the language, but what they told you,

I don't know, living in the Blumentin, you know, at the back there. And that time he saw, you know, Simon likes his space. Simon is Simon, that three bags for Simon sort of thing. We went inside and we were just sitting on the couch having a bit of a chat about something. And Simon came out and had a book in his hand.

I remember Simon saying to me, oh, you know, I've got this book.

I remember the book because Tony had the book was a cook service of the divine plan.

Sean, making my all back then. I'm just sort of sitting and thanks anyway, but it's not for me. And you're welcome to keep it. But certainly got bad vibes off the guy. And often think that I'd really wish to turn back time to handle that situation. I'll have a lot differently than what I did.

“What was the house like to remember when you went inside anything about it?”

I was neat and clean and nothing untoward that you would go or what's happening here. Apart from maybe some, what's a word manipulation, coercive control they call it now, I suppose. That probably was quite rough in that household. You could feel it. Tell me more about that. How could you feel it?

I just with the way that Tony, I could see was being manipulated. And almost totally controlled by this guy's every whim, you know? And did you get the sense at that point that he was like this guru and Tony was maybe a follower of him? Yeah, absolutely. To this day, I don't know how they met or how they came into contact with each other

or what the connection was. I really don't know. I'm not probably sure of our second question.

But he just sort of teamed up with him.

“Then I think, Shantel, Leela and Simon moved on somewhere and Tony designing for a while, did some traveling went back to an end up”

and then they happened to be down there and when he said he'd reconnected with them again. I kind of thought I'll, you know, just probably not a good thing. I gave my opinions at the time to him what I thought as a brother and as a, as a loved one. He didn't want to borrow it and his coin had been just doing his thing, but he was just, I think, just losing direction more and more. You know, we all live our own lives and my care and choices.

But I'll be, I think, the communication sort of became longer and longer, the distance between communications. In 2006, Tony bought a caravan and parked it behind the blue farmhouse, Simon and Shantel were renting. When Tony made the odd trip up to Perth to visit his brother, Joe says he'd complain about the EMFs. Those electromagnetic frequencies that we heard about when the power transformer was installed next to the blue farmhouse. These common was, you know, as soon as I get to that manager, you know, I can feel the EMF software of the power lines and this and that.

And I just said I was like, buddy, rubbish, you know, when you're talking about, you could sense people's dreams and all the sort of stuff. So I thought, you know, he was well and truly, you know, in a different realm of thinking. One person that I spoke to, who had met Tony mentioned that he spoke about the idea of an Armageddon day or he had kind of doomsday beliefs.

“Was that something that he ever talked with you about?”

A little bit, I mean, you'd always say that they're here to serve and there are servers of a divine plan and something greater and all that sort of talk.

But of a doomsday and an ending day, you know. Did he struggle with depression or any other kind of thing? You know, I look back and often think that and I don't think he did. No, I don't think he did. A lot of people would say, yeah, he must have been depressed in this note. I don't think so. I lived with him, and I know him very well.

No, he's just basically just couldn't give a shit about a lot of things that we all do, you know? Did he go to a bit bit paranoid, I think, for a while, that people were watching him and there's groups of people down there that are watching them and they know what they're up to. We're just here to do to serve and to do what we're doing. And then I'd sort of try and put some reality and say, well, you know, how can Simon tell you that he's serving? You can't really do too much if you don't get off your backside at all.

You know, and you got other people running what's serving is actually doing, you know, like. But, you know, he's quite adamant, Simon's way was the way and whatever Simon said that was that was gospel, and that's the direction he was going to head. I just thought, you know, he's certainly not in a good state, really, you know, mentally, he's not quite right. That sending rude or disrespectful, he's thought pattern wasn't as healthy as it probably could have been. A month before he vanished with the others, Tony spoke to Joe about starting up a new lawn mowing business.

He even outlaid precious cash to buy a loot for it. But then without explanation, he sold the loot, and as we know, disappeared. He's all excited about it and to get it up and running, and then obviously they just decided to leave. The last time Joe spoke to Tony, he got a call from his mum just days before his brother vanished.

So to say, where are you going? Is all I can't really tell you? You know, I said, when are you going? Can't tell you?

He just kind of said that, you know, they're going to go away for a while. How did he sound was he excited or? It was a pretty subdued sort of a conversation. Sounded like it was, or to officials not the word, but it was a definite. It was like a definite that they were going.

There was no doubt about it. He was going somewhere. They were going somewhere. I said, yeah, that's a kind of just touch base. And let us know how you're going. Just give us a call or touch base for someone so we know you're okay. Because the air might do it right now. I said, well, if you don't, you're a bit selfish.

But sounded like he wasn't going to any. Obviously, never did.

And that was unfortunately last time I spoke to him. So he never mentioned Brazil to you. Not at that time. Previously said, we may get to Brazil. There's some people there, Simon's got some people he knows there.

“I think it was just a big decoy for people to send them on a wild goose chase.”

Tony's last known movements are just as confusing to Joe as they are to me. One theory is that on the 15th of July 2007, Tony caught a train up to Perth under a false name. And his driver's license was used to check into a backpackers in the inner city suburb of Northbridge. Later that evening, he ordered a pizza from King's Park, a popular tourist spot which overlooks the city. And even though Joe was living in Perth, his brother didn't contact him during that visit.

But what Joe does confirm is the next day he received a package in the mail with power of attorney forms. Tony's bank statements and superannuation policy details. I just hung onto them because I didn't really know what to do with them. So it will maybe one day you'll come back. And then time just drag down, drag down, drag down.

When you've heard anything, it just got to the point where you haven't heard for a while.

“And then you kind of, you can soon kick in and we thought, well, you know, do we go to the place and report it as missing persons?”

I don't know how I ended up getting to the media. I don't know how that happened, but I just now I was swamped from all sorts of media in the space of about 24 hours from people at the door to cause of the front to the phone not stopping. From the who magazine to the women's day to the TV stations and radio stations. I just found it very overwhelming. It was like, make pice flying onto a chip, you know, it was a frenzy.

Joe doesn't know if Tony knew Simon Cadwell's true identity was actually Gary Felton, but he does believe his brother was under his control. To find out that Simon Cadwell was really Gary Felton and he was here on a false passport. My initial reaction to that was, well, you know, if someone's got a false passport either, they've done something bad in the past. They're running away from all they're about to do something and they're going to run away from Wales. Would you have a false passport? One of the things that came out in the the inquest was Simon had told one of his followers of plans for a suicide pact.

How how do you reconcile that? Possibly. Might have done. I mean, he came across from what Tony was saying is a guru of some sort. He may have well said that to them because it seemed to have that whole vibe about it of he was the shining light. He was Jesus Christ. Do you feel like he was brainwashed by Simon? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

“Is there anything you think people have got wrong about this?”

Well, everyone's going to have their opinions and their size. And as I said, it's a mystery and until you don't know, there's a million and one scenario that could have happened. And as a family and I'll speak again just for myself, but these million ones scenario still go through your head. You know, so you don't know what's happened. We don't know the facts. It could be this and it could be that and it leads to this and it leads to that and it shows it could be this.

But again, there's no facts. Who knows? Who knows what's happened? And that's a very difficult thing to do with. Joe has brought Tony to life for me in a way I haven't been able to grasp so far.

Other people have also been in touch a former employer who said he was a hard worker but never opened up about his personal life.

Another person got in touch saying he'd met Tony on two occasions.

He remembered how handsome he was, but also that he seemed really lost. I've also had more information coming to light about Shantel that I haven't been able to confirm until this point. Until an email from a man living in South Australia came in saying he'd met her in person. Only he'd known her as Shandy. You'll remember Simon Cookerman, the guy Shantel dated briefly in the late 90s.

Who she met Simon Cadwell through. The one who turned up in nanop claiming Cadwell wasn't who he said he was.

We've actually been in touch with Cookerman, but he didn't want to do an interview.

“But his stepdad, Stan Harness, is able to tell me something I think is significant about what was happening for Shantel in that time when she was traveling Australia.”

Between leaving Melbourne and arriving in Perth. I spoke to him on a video call, but the audio quality is pretty bad. Because internet in country is Australia right. I'm going to summarize most of what he said. In the late 90s, Stan was living in Adelaide with his wife Jennifer, Cookerman's mum.

When she received a phone call from Cookerman, he was living in Melbourne. But he wanted to know if he could come and stay and bring Shantel with him. She was younger than I expected. And as it does, we perhaps a bit naive.

“Staying with his countless strangers on her island.”

Shantel had brought a stack of Simon Cadwell's books with her. And she spent the week in Adelaide going around to new age books stores, trying to sell them. Stan remembers the books. He said it seemed like they were plagiarized bits. It talked about the world ending.

But as Shantel was getting ready to leave, Stan came across something else that worried him. Shantel's bag was on the floor, sitting there unzipped. And he saw a bunch of drugs inside. Several ounces of marijuana and LSD.

“Stan says it was his son Paul who saw the LSD, reporting back to Stan that there are around two dozen sheets of acid.”

I can't verify this with Paul because he died a few years after Shantel's visit. But that is a serious amount. With all of this, Stan figured the reason Shantel was in Adelaide was actually not about getting the book into new age book shops after all. But about getting such a large quantity of drugs. But I was aware that you probably in a dangerous situation.

I sort of also felt with nothing I could do about it. I've heard about Simon Cadwell's drug taking and how he did so much LSD in his 20s that it blew his mind. And I have heard a reference to drug use in the group before. But it's not been something I've been able to confirm.

And her friends that I've spoken to say they never saw Shantel take drugs.

What Stan has told me has helped me understand a little more about what Shantel was doing over those months of traveling. When her parents Jim and Kath thought she'd made a break from Cadwell. It makes me wonder if that trip across Australia was less about finding adventure. And more about getting the word out about Simon's teachings. If you can keep adding to this picture, please get in touch.

Also, I'm hoping next week I'll be able to bring you another bonus episode that we've been working on for a long time. And interview with the police. We reached out to them in September 2025, but they haven't sat down for an interview yet. But it sounds like they're going to. So hopefully next week I can take you inside the police investigation looking for the nanop four. This has been a bonus episode of Expans, the nanop four.

I'm host Dominic Bans. This episode was edited by Louise Mylin. You've been listening to an ABC podcast.