Practical Dating Advice for Finding Lifelong Love

"We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now? It's way more than we ever had before, and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage." "Discover more at HopeRestored.com. That's HopeRestored.com."

And the goal, yes, is marriage. In fact, if you look in the definition of friends first dating, we say the goal is a life-giving life-long marriage.

So that's the goal. But that's not the purpose. The purpose of dating is growing a friendship that might get you there. That's Michael Johnson, and he joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daley talking about how you can prepare yourself well for marriage. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller. John, we have so many great resources here at Focus on the family. The way people need to think about this place, it's a treasure trove of help for marriage, pre-marriage, for parents, for guidance on movies and all kinds of things.

We have HopeRestored. The list is just so long. If you have an issue in your family, call us and get the ball rolling, and we will help to find a solution for you, we will work tirelessly to do that.

“And to ensure that you have what you need to make your marriage as strong as it can be, to help you in your parenting and so much more.”

And we're going to share some great basic tools for developing healthy relationships and putting Christ first today as we talk about the dating relationship.

Do you remember those days? I do. With some fondness and also some sorrow about some of the ways I mismanaged that. Well, maybe we'll get into that. I hope that. Our guest today is Michael Johnson. He's the president and dean of dating at Future Marriage University, which he co-founded with his wife Julie, and he's written a book called "Date Like You Know What You're Doing Your Date Prep Guide." And that is the basis for our conversation today. You can learn more about Michael and what he does and this great book. We've got the link in the show notes.

Michael, welcome to Focus on the family. Thank you for having me. Right now, this dating expert thing. That's quite a label. But you did date quite a bit in college. It sounds like. Well, yeah. You got to understand that. And I was I was looking for a believer. And I grew up in St. Louis. And there. There wasn't a plethora of believers there. That wasn't the book of the Bible Belt. At least not one's I was attracted to.

But I get to Baylor University in Waco, Texas. And the scales fall from my eyes.

“I see that it is good. And this is the motivation for going to Baylor? Well, I, you know, it's my, you say that because I honestly with God as my witness did not notice that and my visits prior.”

It wasn't till I showed up for orientation that I was like, oh my goodness gorgeous godly women everywhere. So you're major at Baylor. Well, I was a business major. Okay, this is like a commercial for Baylor. And we love Baylor. Yeah, so yeah, I maybe maybe went out with 30 different girls. My freshman. What was your purpose then? What were you just to have fun or what was going on? Well, I mean, I wanted a girlfriend really bad. And again, because you wanted to get married or just wanted to girlfriend.

“Honestly, because I wanted to girlfriend. Okay. And marriage was not really a thing that I thought about consciously until my mom gave me a marriage book Christmas of my junior year in college.”

I was like, not dating anybody seriously. I was think, thanks mom, I get it. You want crayon kids, but I read it anyway. And reading that marriage book, it changed my whole perspective on what marriage was from the gateway to guilt free sex to maybe something a lot bigger than that, which then changed my perspective from what I was looking for in a girlfriend for like, wow, no, I want to, I want to be married. And so then instead of looking for a playmate, I thought I want to look for a teammate. And it just so happened that while I was trying so hard to get all these other girls to fall for me, which if anybody's watching in the video, they can see that was a long shot and it didn't happen.

Meanwhile, I was developed, I had this great friendship with this girl named Julie.

And so I come back to Baylor, second semester at junior year and I'm like, team mate. Yeah. And I always thought she was cute and suddenly she became gorgeous and she agreed to date me seriously.

And yeah, and we did it because we wanted to get married. Let me ask you this, how can couples build that kind of relationship and also direction to aim toward a mission in their dating and then in their marriage?

You've heard of the DTR talk, right? Define the relationship.

Well, the DTP talk is, why don't you define the person first?

And one of those DTP talks, defining the person is, what sense of calling do they have on their life already? And I had a calling on my life. Before I knew I wanted to be married, I knew I wanted to go into the entertainment business and I wanted to, I had very specific ideas about that. Am I doing that now today? No, but I did for several years in the Christian music industry, but I think that Julie liked that. And I didn't, I wasn't just getting a business degree, I wanted to work somewhere. No, I had meanwhile. I mean, I could see that she had a mission's mindset.

She didn't have something quite as specific as that, but to answer your question, it starts with the data actually having a sense of calling on their life already. And then as they date and they meet someone, if I was to date somebody that knew they were called to foreign missions, yeah, that calling doesn't, I'm not, that doesn't work. Yeah, we had that actual thing rise up in our relationship.

“We started off as friends and I think you are endorsed that approach because I figured, like, what's the worst?”

I get a friend out of this deal, but at one point before we got married, my wife said, I really feel called to the mission field. And I had to say, I don't feel called. I don't even know what that means, but if God tells me to do something, I will do it down the road. I mean, I'm not going to resist whatever he has to say. So go back to the friendship thing and talk about the importance of laying that foundation of being a friend. Yeah, well, because whenever I'm dating, think, what are we going to get married? Are we going to get married? Well, is this the person I'm still, I'm not going to marry them?

Where are you living? You're trying to live in the future and you can't live in the future. And so we separate the goal and the purpose of dating.

And the goal, yes, is marriage. In fact, if you look in the definition of friends first dating, we say the goal is a life-giving, life-long marriage.

So that's the goal, but that's not the purpose. The purpose of dating is growing a friendship that might get you there. And again, you said you did this, it sounds like intentionally. Julie and I did this unintentionally. But bottom line, we grew this friendship and it's like, once the friendship kind of caught fire. In fact, we'd say, it felt like falling in love, but really we more or less grew in love because we had this friendship that was just so close. So connected, even coming here today for this broadcast, my wife and I laughed over two or three stupid silly.

If you would have been in the car with us, you probably wouldn't exactly been exactly on the same page. But that's the friendship we have. So when you can encourage them, yeah, no, the focus is not, are you going to get married?

Is it the person you're married? Are you going to marry? No, the focus is, how is that friendship working?

Well, you know, we had a lot of miscommunications again on the last date.

“That's facts that you need to focus on. Or, man, we had this hard conversation the other day.”

And I thought about what she said, and I changed my mind. I think she's right. And in fact, that's really wise. I see a, whoa, that's facts you want to focus on. You want to move forward without. Let me ask you, you have a story about this is kind of funny. Because you said you dated 30 girls and crush it freshman year. Yeah, okay. So you did mention in the book, one girl that broke your heart.

So you brought this up. It's not me. So I really don't get mad at me. Yeah, you call her Danielle. I'm sure you've changed her name. Yes, but what did she do? Well, she didn't do anything. But I came sophomore year. I think, and let's do that again. Let's go out with a bunch of different girl.

And when I say go out with 30 different girls, I don't mean the dating relationship. I mean, like we went on a date or two or three dates, but it was just like that. But that said, I come my sophomore going to do the same thing.

“And I fall hard for this girl named Danielle. I mean, when I really, but that's what we're calling her.”

I mean, I'm just head over heels. And at the same time, I could clearly perceive. She is not that into me. And I said, God, how did this happen? And it distinctly felt God say, Oh, see, you want my opinion now. And I was like, I struggle with self-righteousness. They're just saying, I was like, what your opinion now? Do I need to remind you that I waited till I got to a school where I could meet Christian girls before I ever dated at all?

And we did good Christian that I wanted to find out their testimony.

You know, I went through how righteously and well I did it. And when I was done with my little diatribe, I was like, are you saying you want to me to like ask like, like, pray? Like Lord, should I ask Danielle out? He's like, yes. So that what you would say what you learned was to go to the Lord with everything. Absolutely. And not just, it's not about following the rules.

It's not, I mean, yes, you want to follow God's law, but it's about the relationship. And I'm like, Hey, God, I got this. I got all these rules of, I'm, I'm obeying all your rules here. And all the while, God's like, I want to be a part of this. And so yeah, that really, that rock me and I didn't go out with as many girls in my sophomore year. That's good.

So Michael, I go back to my dating years and there's this big nebulous God's will. And that has some effect here to what you're talking about.

“Because did you pray, Lord, should I ask this person out? Should I ask this person out for marriage?”

How does the greater God's will understanding effect our dating? Well, I like to think of it like having three legs to the stool.

By the way, let's, let's back up first and say what most people base knowing God's will on in dating.

And that's feelings. Yeah, yeah, I, I just, I sense, I knew God told me that it up. But I think let's back that up with, yes, seeking him in prayer. Yes, being in his word, but then also seeking community with believers. Those are the three commitments that you really need to have.

The commitment to knowing God's word, seeking him in prayer and pursuing community with believers. So that then when I have these feelings for this girl and when I pray, I sense God like, yeah. In fact, I'll tell you what happened. Junior year after coming back from reading that book.

“I was like, God, do you think Julie and I should date seriously?”

Actually, I, I felt like God said, if you wanted to date Julie seriously, I'd be pleased with that. And I said, please, because we're going to get married. And I felt like you said, no, just saying, I've been if you wanted to date, you know, take your relationships in the next level out. That would, that would be nice. Because we're going to get married. I don't feel like he said, I feel like I just had the green light to move forward.

But then that third thing that so many people neglect is that community with believers.

So when it comes to looking at community, the best story that I tell in my book, it is probably the best story I tell in my book. I live with the same three guys, sophomore junior senior year and college. But my freshman year, one of my roommates had dated Julie, seriously, not just like I was doing Cornell without those girls. But like as a girlfriend and she broke up with them and they went out again as a boyfriend girlfriend and she broke up with them again. Junior year, I'm not sure how over her, he is. I really don't know.

This is not a point of conversation I have with this roommate. But I decided that January after reading that book that my mom gave me and looking at Julie and thinking, hey, I got a teammate. I'm like, I talked to her about, let's date seriously.

“But then I'm like, how am I going to tell my roommates? How am I going to tell him?”

Nancy and Pete say great, my college pastor say great, how am I roommates going to firm this? And low and behold, one of my roommates comes into the room, not the one that dated her and he said, hey, have you and Julie ever thought about dating seriously? I was like, I, I, I, Julie who, I, I mean, I felt like Bob Newhart like I just had fumbling all over myself. And he goes, well, Stuart Gregg and I were talking and we just felt like you guys get along so well. And Greg just said he'd really hate for his pastor relationship with Julie to stand in the way of you guys getting together.

I mean, gentlemen, I thought the Chicana glory of the Lord, shine down into that room, I never could've imagined that blessing.

And there it was, all three of my roommates including the one of the data in the past like, you go, guy. And I know when I share that story that that is what the reader wants. And they, they, they, they want that kind of affirmation as opposed to just what I just saw across the room and the Lord told me in ancient Greek that, you know. And, and I'm not just why actually I'm kind of discounting that, but I mean, for every person that believes the Lord told me.

And for everyone of those, there's someone that believed the Lord told me and they never got married.

“And for everyone of those, there's someone that believed the Lord told me and they never actually spoke to each other.”

So be careful about the voices you listen to. Let the feelings drive. Yeah, it's going on. Well, let's just consider that maybe there's this other guy that has access to your soul. The one who will shall not be named. And maybe he comes across like an angel of light and maybe he can make you think that he's the Lord and then he's identified this right person. And just again, the three legs, yes, see God and prayer, pursue community with believers and know his word and when those come together, it's beautiful.

Yeah, let me ask you about cohabiting because that's a big issue in the church today, where, you know, the idea is if we can just kind of test drive this relationship, see if we can live in the same room. Day after day and all those things that go with that. The data on it is very bad.

Yeah, that's the most critical component of this.

I don't recall exactly the number, but it's a high percentage of couples that don't survive that to make it into marriage. Now, you might be saying, well, that proves the point then. There's something binding about marriage that is not binding about cohabitation. And that's the big difference is that cohabitation can break apart because I get up and I don't feel like being engaged with you anymore. Being involved with you anymore.

Whereas marriage, you know, there's a commitment there that's so critical that even though I don't like being here right now, I'm married to you. I got to figure it out. Yeah. And that's a bond that goes beyond cohabitation, which is probably so many cohabitors don't make it. Yeah, you know, it's an entirely different mindset.

It's the try before you buy a mindset, which is is so different from what I, the decision I made, the decision you gentlemen made when you're like, I'm giving my life to you. I'm pledging my life to you. I'm going to love honor and serve you however I can.

“Why in your 20s does it feel so logical and so mature though to try this out?”

Because it does, I mean, it does look like it makes sense, like how why would I want, we wouldn't do it with a roommate. I'm going to commit to living with you for the rest of my life. No, we're going to, we'll say how this works.

But the reality is even if you get along with someone really well for five years, it doesn't mean you're going to go along with them really well for your lifetime.

Many married people do that. So what is the difference between cohabiting for five years before you marry versus just getting married and being married five years? You know, it doesn't, you really have to have a sense of commitment. And again, that's one of the things we talk about in the book is not so much like, oh, let's move in together and let's see if this works. But no, you want to find someone who already is shown that they can commit because when you hear about their work situation, they're committed.

When you see the friends that they hang out with, they're committed. They aren't bouncing from church to church or our young adult group to young adult group, they're committed. And it is that quality that makes a marriage last. It is not how well you mesh together because you, we all, three at this table and you listing, no, several couples that are very happily married that have so little in common, but they just make it work. And other couples that like, you know, they split apart and you're so surprised because they seem just perfect.

So I understand it, it looks like it makes sense to move in together. But you really test the relationship by seeing, well, this person wait. Well, but the, in the most important thing is coming back to what must I do to honor God in this relationship and every relationship.

“And you know, I think in my 20s, that's what I began to realize, you know, it's back to what you said the very beginning.”

Did you ask me about dating her? I mean, did you ask me about marrying her? I mean, that's what it is. And then you've got to curtail that appetite until you find that person that will be the potential mate and then behave yourself beforehand. So it, you know, I, I just feel like that's part of honoring the Lord and then he honors you and blesses you for doing that. And maybe not like you think this is not, you know, prosperity gospel, right?

But it's just, but no, when I obey, I am going to be blessed. Probably not like I thought with one million dollars, but there is a blessing. There's a piece. There's a joy.

And in that try, try before you buy it mindset of living together, it seems like there might be this mindset of, there's a reason.

There's another reason. Oh, and when they do that, you know, I really am thinking, you know, I'm filling my bucket with reason. It with reasons that this isn't going to work out. Whereas when you're married, the mindset is, I got to figure this out. Yeah, you think that might be part of some of the challenges. A hundred percent, absolutely.

“What does it mean to be emotionally healthy and Christ so that you can do this in a God-honoring way?”

Um, emotionally healthy and Christ is a, that's big. I mean, what does that mean confidence in him, peace in you? You're not acting like a squirrel. I mean, you're not... You mean, like being my freshman year? Yeah, maybe like a freshman year. I don't want to say it that way, but, you know, you're just moving around.

You know, I just, as we're talking, I'm just talking about those again, 20s, maybe 30 something now, because people are marrying a little later.

But it's just that maturity just settling in. So you do know what you're wanting. A, you do know you want to get married. You don't want to do this life single. Yeah. So the point is, begin to act on that. I mean, you're now an adult. You've got to think through these things, so they are not acting like a child. Yeah.

And behaving like a child, that you're thinking through what's my responsibility, am I emotionally mature and Christ?

“Wow. That is a good question for a 20 something.”

Yeah. And if not, how do I get there? Yeah. Well, I look at that in my relationship with Julie. If Julie and I would have dated freshman year, like not, actually we did go out. But not when my roommate was dating her seriously, but if we would have dated seriously, my freshman year,

it would have been probably the same train wreck that my roommate encountered dating her. And it wouldn't have been her. It would have been me. Because I told you I showed up at college like I want a girlfriend. But I got these guy friends that really centered me. They love the Lord. They held me accountable. And it was just on the count of mobile and the rules.

But like, no, just like we're together working, so that's a huge part of that, that maturity that I see so often. Young adults, blacking. And I'll talk about the guy specifically, just because for obvious reasons I've usually talked into the, you know, the young adult guys individually. And I'm just like, man, you weren't plugged into a church. You're not really known by anybody. You're sharing these deep dark secrets with me and you're telling me your best friends don't know those things.

That's emotional maturity when you have that kind of community that is around you. And it is that community that then made what would have been a terrible decision freshman year. Let's date seriously, Julie, to being a really great decision junior year. Because I knew even if things don't work out with Julie. Nancy, Pete, Fred, Greg, Stewart, my college pastor, Craig.

I'm all right with them. I'm going with them. But also, you know, being disciplined about being with the Lord. Being disciplined about spending time with them, not as an obligation.

“Well, I mean, maybe as an obligation, just like John, do you have to be disciplined about spending time with your wife?”

Jim, do you have to be disciplined or is it just kind of happened just naturally, especially with your travel schedule? I think it was a trick question.

So, you know, how do you encourage young people to take that first step in the preparation for marriage?

You know, what if somebody's hearing this today going, okay, I haven't really been thinking about it. I'm at Baylor, I've dated 31 and my freshman year. I'm just roll the clock back. Yeah. What would the old you have heard that would have gone, okay, I got to change what I'm doing.

Well, if any huge endeavor requires going to class, talking to experts on the job training. I guess experience if you want to say it in reading books. And so I would say to you, if you're like, how I want to do this right, you number one, you don't have to buy a marriage book. You can buy my book. It's actually a dating book. Really, seriously, read sacred marriage by Gary Thomas, read love and respect by Emerson Agreech.

That is the meat of how to do it. Yeah, so reading books go to classes. What if young adult guy in, let's say you're 30? And what if you went to a marriage seminar? And people are like, "Oh, you're spouse."

And you're like, "Well, actually, I'm just trying to learn things ahead of time." And what if those, one of those married couples had a phone with a number in it, of a single girl that they were like, "Oh, my word."

But seriously, do some online things.

So go to class and talk to experts.

“Who are the experts? We call them rock stars around future marriage university.”

But people that have been married 30 plus years, that when you look at their marriage, you're like, "I want that." I want what they have in that. I want what they have. Well, talk to take them out to coffee.

Find out, you know, how did they get together?

What mistakes and smart things did they do? And then, and here's the irony, getting the real life experience. Usually people think that has to be dating experience.

“Like, I guess I got to go out with 30 different, no.”

That's like experience getting along with your roommates. That's experience getting along at work. That's experience making sacrifices at your church, so this girl can go on this mission trip,

because you and your small group center.

That's the kind of experience. No, not experience between the sheets. Experience above the sheets, where you will live the vast majority of your married life. But learning in those contexts of how to have healthy relationships. Well, we've covered it, and now you've got to get the book, because it'll cover more.

But Michael, thanks so much for being with us today. Again, thank you. And for those listening, I hope you feel equipped to further develop your relationship with your significant other. Whatever stage you're in.

Marriage is such an effective way for us to get closer to God and further the kingdom of God. It is worth the commitment to invest in dating and marriage. And if you're married already, I hope you'll share this with your single friends. And family members, Michael's book is such a helpful resource for young people. It's called date like you know what you're doing.

We have copies for you here at Focus on the Family. And when you make a gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy. As our wife's saying, thank you for being part of the ministry. Because of your donations, we're able to help strengthen hundreds of thousands of marriages every year. So be a part of that, and I hope you'll make a financial gift today.

Yeah, donate and get your copy of the book. When you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800, 2, 3, 2, 6, 4, 5, 9, or donate to get the details when you click the links in the show notes. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.

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