2 Kings 16-25 Part 2 • Dr. Mike Day • July 13-19 • Come, Follow Me

message here if I was going to teach a 25 minute lesson would be, how has a guy address the prophet? Do you believe the prophet when everything says not to? You're a man who's just met the missionaries. You work two jobs. They say pay tithing. But you felt the spirit. You read the book a Mormon. You know there are messages true, but you also understand economics. You're like, how am I going to pay tithing? I'm already working two jobs. Oh, and take Sunday off. I work

“Sunday. What am I going to do? I'll never forget I was teaching this lady. She was on fire with”

the spirit. I was dreading asking her this because we were going to get to the word of wisdom lesson. We read the book a more and she loved reading the book a more and we'd read with her. She felt the spirit, but she smoked. I remember the looking rise when we taught her and I held out my hand and I said, "Do you trust me?" And her hand was trembling as she gave me her cigarettes and I thought, "That is the same concept." The Lord is saying, "I'm going to ask tough stuff of you."

I was 19. I was so nervous. I wonder if you talked to Isaiah afterwards. Like, were you nervous? He's like, "Oh, yeah. I was nervous." He didn't act it. I wish I could dramatize the way you do Mike. The Lord's response says, "Akaya, I have heard three words." Then he says, "You have reviled, who have you blasphemed?" The Holy One of Israel. It's almost like someone saying, "Oh,

“you should not have done that." Syria, you are in more trouble than you realize. This would be a”

beautiful movie. No wonder you're quoting Tolkien here. I'll never forget Return of the King.

And I just think Tolkien is channeling so much of the scriptures. I would not show clips of Tolkien in Semner, but I would reference the story to say close your eyes for a minute and just imagine this army outside your walls and how scary that would be. Even though we don't have that today, I don't have armies outside my wall. I have my own trials. We all do really hard things. It's a real challenge. I'm going to pivot now. I'm not going to talk too much about this, but

Hezekiah is ill and he prays and there's this thing with the shadow. The shadow moves and he's given some extra time in his life. Then it pivots to this really weird narrative in second kings.

The end of second kings starting at about verse 12 to the end. This is where the king of Babylon

hears that Hezekiah's sick. There's some communication. This has just been such a weird thing for me to ponder. It says that Hezekiah shows the treasures of verse 13. He showed them all the precious

“things and the silver and gold and spices and everything the treasures of the house. What's going on here?”

In verse 14 it says Isaiah came to Hezekiah and it says what said these men? What are they doing? What are you doing with this? Then he said verse 15, what have they seen in the nine house and Hezekiah answered all the things that are in my house had they seen? Then he gives them this really dark prophecy that the sun's his descendants will be taken away in the captivity that there'll be

unix. And I've always puzzled over verse 19. So imagine John the prophet of God comes to you and

says your kids are going to be captive. They're going to be made unix. Would you ever say verse 19 read verse 19? Then said Hezekiah, unto Isaiah. Good is the word of the Lord which daha spoken and he said, is it not good if peace and truth be in my days? Some people look at this and say that it's Hezekiah's way of saying, okay my kids are going to be in captive but at least I'm living it up. I'm having a good life. That's one interpretation. Another interpretation is channeling that

first Samuel 318 narrative where Eli says the same thing where he finds out about his kids and he says good are the words of the Lord meaning he's in charge. Good are the words of the Lord. It reminds me also of Nephi. If you remember Nephi has this vision where he sees his descendants get completely killed, that's a hard thing. But however you interpret verse 19, I don't know how to interpret it. I would love to hear the people there be on this podcast and explain it.

But that's a hard thing. And then there's another layer. A later reductor is inserting this after it happened saying, hey, this is really what happened to the seat of Hezekiah because the kingdom ends. The king is going to be held captive. But then the author throws this in here and verse 20 that says the rest of the acts of Hezekiah and all his might and all the cool stuff that he did are they not written in chronicles? One of the things they shout out are the pool and the conduit.

And I'm sure you guys, because I know you guys have been Israel, have you walked the tunnel? Hezekiah is tunnel. Oh yeah, absolutely. How would you describe that to your audience and what would you say its purpose is? There is a hewn out of solid rock is that like a third of a mile I think this tunnel that goes from outside where Jerusalem's walls would have been. It was from

approximately at the pool of Cylome, militarily it's brilliant because an enemy can't cut off your water supply that you can go walk through this and it's like an ankle deep maybe comes up to your

knees right at first. Pretty dark and if you're claustrophobic don't do it. John, were you freaked out

the first time you went in were you a little bit like what am I doing? Hey I had my energizers on my little headland I was okay but it's really cool. It's so old that water has been flowing for I guess centuries. If you go to your study helps and look at the Bible map they have a red dotted

“line for Hezekiah's tunnel there it's important enough they stuck it on the map. They found an”

inscription because Guy started on one side and then Guy started on the other side and they kind of do this and then they come together in the middle and they left an inscription hey we were here we made this tunnel they did that without power tools and all that was to preserve their lives and the

ancient world if you have high ground food and water and walls if you have those four things you could

do pretty good. A lot of people say hey that's also why Jerusalem stayed safe is they had access to water. It's interesting that it's right here in the text it has talked about just reminds me my son Elijah who got one of our group members to pay him $50 to go through. He's like I don't want to and then my buddy Brandon hatch he said I'll pay you my son okay I was like you were gonna

“go anyway it's like yeah but now I'm going through and I made 50 bucks yeah I'll go and refuse to go”

chronologically then when was the tunnel built was it before this Syrian siege was it in an anticipation of this a Syrian siege in anticipation of the siege. What I do find really interesting about this tunnel is it leads to this pool this pool was the beginning of what was called the Ascent in the Psalms which are the scripture rituals there's what's called the Psalms of Ascent and Psalm 120 to 134 are these 15 Psalms the Psalms of degrees are Psalms of Ascent that they would

sing as they were going up the steps to the temple but the journey the pilgrimage started down at the bottom at the pool alone and you could go up and there were certain Psalms that they would sing as they approached the throne of God at the temple during this time period they also

“had what was called the water drawing ceremony where they would draw water and they would”

poured over the altar and the idea was that this water from this heavenly spring under the earth would touch the altar and that God would bring rains and that we would follow God that we would drink of the water but also follow his way live according to the judgments and the righteousness of God when Jesus says I am the living water that ties into this temple idea what's fascinating is brand new last I checked because I was there in Jerusalem when they were getting the final touches

they've opened up the old steps of Ascent from the pool of Salome the ones that probably existed during Jesus' day and that's now accessible to me I find this super fascinating that so we have Hezekiah but then we have this pool but it's tied into the temple but it's also tied into Jesus these were the things that Jesus would have known about and had part of their collective memory and part of their religion. Mike this is a spiritual and scriptural feast now the next chapter

21 is about Manasa we don't want to confuse this Manasa with the tribe that some people have in their patriarchal blessing or they're going to be so disappointed yet not the same same name but different guy the legend is that he's not a good guy tell us all about him according to some of the legends Isaiah is like the grandfather of Manasa that King Hezekiah married Isaiah's daughter and that from that union Manasa was born now there's legends that Manasa actually ends up killing

Isaiah which is super sad I nerd out about some of this on talking scripture where I'll put a pin

and whatever is we're talking about and then I'll go to this extra biblical literature I always

go to extra biblical literature to corroborate the Old Testament tax with the text of the new Testament to give another lens sometimes in the Bible they'll be a story that's like half told and we don't have the whole story but then the extra biblical literature will be add light to it there's this text is extra biblical piece of literature called the ascension of Isaiah and a couple of the chapters chapter one and chapter five Isaiah related that

he and Manasa get into it basically and that Manasa kills him and the legend is that he saw it in

martyr with the symbol of his death there's a beautiful church Saint John the Latter and where the

“Papal throne is in Rome and these beautiful marble statues that are just ginormous”

every one of the apostles is depicted a lot of times with the implement of their death well there's paintings of Isaiah that you can see if you go to some of these old churches where Isaiah's holding a saw in his hand we put one of these in the slide decks so if you ever see that image and like why is Isaiah holding a saw that's the story now it's not in the Bible I want to be careful it's not part of our canonized text Isaiah doesn't talk about this stuff

that's the legend that is told really the author of Kings does cast some major shade on Manasa

verse 16 that he shed innocent blood very much that's not good verse 11 he did wickedly above

all that the Amrites did and the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi it's a dark time for the rebellion it's not that this is the rebellion but just reminds me of that Star Wars line in other words this is one of the dark times of Jewish history in fact later after Josiah does his thing the author of Kings harkens back to Manasa and says Manasa was a really bad guy and that's partly why we're having these horrible things done to us in a gospel doctrine lesson I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it

as a reward for his activity Manasa verse 23 of chapter 21 is killed after this chapter 22 is the beginning of kind of the end but there's this high point in the text of Josiah Josiah's portrayed as the greatest thing ever now granted he takes the throne or it says he's eight when he began

“to reign but let's be honest do you know any eight-year-olds that are really in charge?”

no somebody else is in the cabinet there yeah somebody else is in charge in verse three it says it came to pass in the 18th year of King Josiah so 18 plus eight twenty five twenty six year-old he's twenty six that's six twenty two BC about that time six twenty two reread about this guy named Hillkaya the priest they're cleaning up the temple he sends him in there took work through it and do some renovations this is not unfounded that when they do renovations

in a temple this is not just in Israel or Judah this is other places in the ancient world remember these temples sometimes lasts for millennia they especially in Egypt some of these really old buildings they would do some renovations in these other cultures they would actually find texts in the wall or in the cornerstone or in parts of the temple that they didn't know existed

“this story is not out of thin air but the idea is that the priest comes and says hey we found”

this text called the book of the law that's in verse eight from there he reads it in verse ten he runs his clothes in verse eleven and the ideas we've been doing religion wrong he does this

and then the twenty-third chapter is we're gonna fix all the ways we're doing religion wrong and these are

called Josiah's reforms in the midst of all this there's a little bit about this female named Holda who gives a prophecy and that's in verses fourteen through twenty hold this prophecy to Josiah's essentially I will bring evil upon Jerusalem God will gather Josiah to his fathers and his grave will be in peace and Josiah won't live to see the destruction of Jerusalem that's kind of the bit of her prophecy there I don't know a lot about Holda there's just not a lot we have but

that's the idea verse twenty says a lot of this behold therefore I will gather the unto thy fathers that shall be gathered into thy grave in peace then I shall not see the evil which I shall bring upon this place verse eleven he ends solar worship the Assyrians had this idea that their God would be taken across the sky on this chariot the Egyptians had the same thing but it was on a boat there are horses that would do this and so the idea is that there were horses in the temple or around

the temple complex and that's being taken down then in verses fifteen through twenty he goes on a rampage and reforms the northern area all the the land of the north it says in verse fifteen the altar that was with a Bethel in the high place which Jeroboam set up he breaks his stuff down he burns at the end of verse fifteen the Ashrer or the Grove then he took bones in verse 16 the bones of the dead and he put them all over these holy places the idea was because I put bones

there now it's unclean you can't worship there and then he breaks down all the houses in the high places of verse nineteen that were in the cities of Samaria he takes all this away and then in verse twenty this is the word for slew as a walk he slew the priests of the high places

violent stuff that's the sixth reform in the seventh we just read he killed the priests of Samaria

“those are the seven really big reforms one of the big ideas in Deuteronomy this is in chapter 12”

this is difficult like I'm not here to settle for your audience or even for myself my opinion could change tomorrow as I learn more information but the 12th chapter of Deuteronomy is this strict prohibition you cannot sacrifice anywhere except for the place where y'all wish you'll choose to put his name that place in josiah's day was where the temple yeah the temple in Jerusalem but it doesn't say that in the text it doesn't say that anywhere in the text it just says

the place where y'all wish you'll choose to put his name now interesting and some of the other strains of the penitook God is portrayed as dwelling in the temple that's where he dwells Deuteronomy does not take that position Deuteronomy's position is God's name Hashem his name dwells in the temple why my reading of Deuteronomy is the reason why Hashem his name dwells in the temple is because God is non-corporio in the book of Deuteronomy he's unseeable you can't know him

he doesn't have a body Mike can I say that the Deuteronomy that we have that we've been reading is a product that these reforms we don't have an earlier version a pre-reformed Deuteronomy

“I think there is a proto-deuteronomy Deuteronomy just means the second time in the law”

I think the Jews call it the Devereem the words these are the words according to the text that Moses spaked right before he crossed over now spoiler alert go to verse one of chapter one of Deuteronomy this is a dead giveaway that Deuteronomy has been redacted just look at verse one redacted you mean edited yes edited hardcore these be the words that's the title of the book these be the words which Moses spaked into Israel on this side Jordan in the wilderness and the

plane over against the red sea between those places well that's not what it says in the text

in the Hebrew text it doesn't say that remember the story is Moses never crosses Jordan he doesn't

come in Israel the Hebrew text this is what it says in English it says these are the words that Moses spaked when he was on the other side of Jordan meaning that the author writing Deuteronomy one one is on the west side of Jordan the first time I tell that to people I have to say it again do you understand the author is telling you from verse one Moses didn't write this this is written later from the west side where Moses never went now that's really hard to hear the King James

translators I don't know what they're thinking but they took that Hebrew bit and they're like well that can't be these were the words that he spaked on this side Jordan the east side that's not what it says we could do a whole podcast on what next going on with Deuteronomy because we're barely scratching the surface Jeffrey to gay wrote the JPS commentary on it which is stellar he would concur with what I'm saying because it's in the text just read it like I said I'm not here to

“denigrate it because I think Deuteronomy is good here's the deal guys there's a ton of Deuteronomy”

in the Book of Mormon every time in the Book of Mormon where it says if you keep the commandments in you fall the Lord in your humble you're going to be blessed that's Deuteronomy speaking that's the Book of Mormon once again I'm going to use the Book of Mormon as a lens by which to read these

reforms the first one is centralization so centralization Deuteronomy 12 verse two and it's not

just in verse two but Deuteronomy 12 two really is reflected here in 2 Kings 23 any place where there's an altar outside of Jerusalem we're just going to burn it we're going to put dead people's bones on there so it's not holy anymore the second reform in Deuteronomy these are the big ones that coincide with Joseph's reforms the second one is exclusive worship second Kings 23 verse 20 he's sue all the praise of the high places that were there upon the altar and burn men's

bones upon them in a return to Jerusalem this is Deuteronomy 13 and 17 the third reform is host of heaven the host of heaven are denied in Deuteronomy 4 verse 19 chapter 23 verse 11 is second Kings this is what it says he took away the horses that the kings of Judah had given to the sun so that's a solar worship at the entering in of the house of the Lord by the chamber of the chamberland which was in the suburbs and burn the chariots of the sun with fire there's this idea that the

divine council had different individuals on it in this council they called it the host of heaven they're denied that's reflected in the eleventh verse we mentioned the fourth one is going to be God's name dwells at the temple that isn't Deuteronomy 12 5 11 and 21 Deuteronomy 29 29 talks about that the secret things cannot be known I want to read this verse because it applies

this is what it says the secret things belong to the Lord our God but those things which are

revealed belong unto us and our children forever that we may do all the words of the law translation you don't worry about the mysteries you just follow the law the law is all that matters the mysteries belong only to God now there's another bit in here where the author of Deuteronomy says to Moses do you think you can see God if you go to verse 12 of chapter 4 the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire you heard his voice of the words but you saw no similitude

“only heard of voice it literally says in verse 12 Moses do you remember when you said you saw me”

you didn't see me God can't be seen you only heard of voice that is contrary to so many other passages we learn them on our mission don't Bible bash with people if a priest comes up to you and says Joseph Smith could not see God and they show you verses like these you are wasting your time Bible bashing with them if you show them a verse it says Moses saw God you're just spinning your wheels and you're going around around and biblical scholarship in my opinion unlocks why this is

the Deuteronomy's have a different theological view Deuteronomy say you can't see God like do me favor and define those for our audience when you say a Deuteronomy is that someone from Jeff Sia's time yes so the religion shifts there's this shift remember the early prophets know the mysteries they're brought up into the council I mean you got Jacob's latter we're going to do Nephi to say because Nephi is a rock star he's going to show you in

technical what's going on I read Abraham Isaac and Jacob especially Abraham and Jacob through the lens of Nephi but the Deuteronomy so these people that live in the 600's BC what's called seven

“century Israelite religion there's a shift his name is the only thing that dwells in the temple”

we're going to cut down the ashra this tree which is so important as part of their religion that Josiah takes out is taken out in 2 Kings 23 verse 6 and Deuteronomy 16 verses 21 through 22 these are all some reforms that coincide with Josiah's reforms I'm not alone in this and not all scholars agree there's actually a couple of LDS scholars it take two positions one takes a position that laymen and lemme all are Deuteronomists that they're literally following

this law they look at the highest your messed up there's this bit in Deuteronomy that says if there's somebody that's having visions you got to take them out Hank do you want to read verse five of Deuteronomy 13 Mike let me make sure I understand perhaps laymen and lemmeal were in on these reforms they're saying no you're turning against this religion which these reforms brought us if we read laymen and lemme all through this lens we see why they're having a freak out

when Lehigh builds an altar we'll see a couple others we're going to briefly look at first Nephi

“one I know we're in 2 Kings but I think first Nephi one's pertinent to this discussion”

here's Deuteronomy 13 5 and that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death because he has spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God which brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you out of the house of bondage to thrust the out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in so shout thou put the evil away from the midst of thee Mike I was going to say the next verse if thy brother do this then you can get rid of him too

you have verse eight thou shall not consent to him verse nine but thou shall surely kill him this is certainly complicated but on one hand it's asking to kill a dreamer of dreams something Lehigh was he was a dreamer of dreams but it's also a directive against false God worship I want to be careful I don't want to overplay my hand in your podcast and say that I'm a hundred percent right I don't know I'm just a guy looking at stuff I don't know but what we're looking at

is I'm stacking the cards and saying there's strong evidence that laymen and lemme all may have had this perspective now what really blows me away if you remember our conversation about Deuteronomy twenty nine twenty nine we had about five or six minutes ago about the mysteries

or the secret things are only known to God don't worry about them go to the very first verse

of first Nephi one now before I read this I want to just say this there's a lot of scholars not just one or two they're not hidden in the corner there's a lot of biblical scholars that say these reforms of Josiah were pretty rough they were happening during this time period there's a major shift in religion there's another scholar he wrote an article in the interpreter called vindicated Josiah he takes the other position and says hey Josiah is a good guy I don't want to

have him all we have these records what blows me away is this Joseph Smith twenty three years old I don't think he knows a lick about the Josiah reforms I don't think he's done that the

“biblical scholarship on this and realizes the political things at stake I believe the book”

of Mormon is what it purports to be look at verse one I need if I haven't been born a goodly parents therefore I was taught somewhat in the learning of my father and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days nevertheless having been highly favored Lord in all my days yeah having a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God therefore I make a record

of the proceeds of my days in the very first verse Nephi says I'm privy to the mysteries then he says

that there are a lot of profits is said hey we got a repent then he tells you the vision of his father and his father remember there are no divine counsel there's only one god monotheism there's this no host of heaven thing going on and what is he see verse eight a numberless concourses of angels God sitting on his throne twelve other divine beings of some sort in verse ten and they come down and they give him a book he talks about I'm going to undo some of these reforms he is

privy to the mysteries he sees God which counters due to our enemy four which says you can't see God

“remember Moses due to our enemy four twelve can't see him so we've countered that one”

and we've seen the council three of the seven really big reforms of the due to our

anonymous reforms are tackled in that very first bit but then later he builds an altar

which undoes the whole bit of due to our enemy twelve is thrown out the window it's so interesting that in a twenty three twenty four-year-old in the early eighteen hundreds gives us this text by which we can maybe interpret the Bible now all that being said this a lot of stuff what you can see is some tension in the text how do we do religion joseye is going to put a monitor trajectory in john hall said this to me one time this put them on the monotheistic track

so when Jesus comes and says I'm God's son they don't know what to do with that their interpretation is your saying you're the king which he is but Jesus isn't just saying I'm the king as and I'm adopted by God no he's like I'm the king I'm like God's son literally God's son which blows their mind because they're monotheous there's a book called the origins of biblical monotheism by mark Smith not lds going to sum it up he says this is the beginning of monotheism

the origins of biblical monotheism are coming out of the seven century as whole book makes that argument and is very strong and he's dealing with things outside of the Bible extra biblical text to erratic text about when did monotheism come to be it coincides with the book of Mormon it coincides with at least my reading of the joseye reforms well I know that the church has that video that beautiful video of like what a good guy joseye is I'm not here to say

he was a bad guy or good guy I don't even know if these reforms were made by him I wouldn't do any of this in gospel talking like when I talk gospel doctrine I didn't even show the video I just talked about have faith do these good things on podcasts or side conversations I would have members come and say but what do we do with this I'm like ah read the book of Mormon if we read the book of Mormon what the book of Mormon tells us is God can be seen he wants you to have the

mysteries he wants you to come to him more than his name dwells in the temple his presence is there one day you will embrace him and the very end of ether twelve and run i ten is an invitation

by these guys that say I've seen him so can you and to me that's relevant that's powerful

now that we practice in the temple ritually liturgially we're practicing coming into the

“presence of God I think that's beautiful that was probably ten minutes of undoing joseye a poor guy”

I hope when I meet joseye that he'll be nice to me I hope that we can be friends and break bread I'm so glad to hear your final summary there with all of this that someday we'll get settled what do we do we focus on following spec we can we focus on Christ coming to him and be perfected in him and you're gonna meet him Nephi Maronai they say I've seen him and you will too the last bit in Ronai where he says you and I will be before his bar he's a real person

so the book of Mormon may be correcting what the reformers got wrong can joseye joseye smith he's like by the way I'm gonna go ahead and correct everything for second king's twenty three that had been inserted and due to Ronami while I'm at this this is my take I think Nephi and the other visionaries of the book of Mormon they take everything that due to Ronami has that's good and they run with it and they let go of the stuff

that doesn't work stuff that says you can't see God you can't have altars anywhere else God only has a name he's non-corporial or the mysteries cannot be known they let go that stuff and they keep

wow yeah John this is great stuff I'm already going I got a print they show notes out and read him again I'll send it to you we're almost there I've been asked before how come Lehigh is building altars wherever he goes it says pretty clearly in the Bible that you can only worship in one spot this explains that that wasn't in probably in Lehigh's due to Ronami and due to Ronami goes against everything the patriarchs do everything the patriarch they have a tree what's the

preeminent vision of first Nephi they go to a tree in fact Lehigh's vision which is then

becoming Nephi's they go through three part space they go through the loan and drill in us they go past the great in spacious building by the way the word hey call which is the main house of the

“temple means great in spacious palace that's what it means he passes that and then it comes to the”

tree and he falls down protects the fruit of the tree I look at that as a holy holy vision there's three parts space in his vision and the tree is central to this visionary experience the tree was central in part of the early Israelite religion there's so much debate on this and I know there's alias scholars on both sides of this I'm not dogmatic I don't know I wasn't there I'm just the guy looking at stuff but I find it fascinating because the Book of Mormon like the provenance of the

Book of Mormon a 23 old man who says I've seen God give it to us I always like to tell my students

if the Book of Mormon was found in a cave and it came out today it would be the biggest fine in archaeological history every Christian would be shouting how alias saying this is proof Jesus is the correct it's just the provenance they don't like the message I don't think they have an issue with that well this has been fantastic Mike this is Mike kind of day where we go through and really become more competent in scripture like you said there's not a place to do this in

gospel doctrine no we got 25 minutes but it sure is fun to do on your own I'll tell you and to didn't talk about with your good friends Mike and John Mike wouldn't you love to see the dude around me on the brass plates yes I would because here's a thing Jacob for where he says all the prophets testified a Christ what if the early versions of this stuff read more like the Book of Mormon

“that they testify of the Messiah the one who will come down and die I believe that Moses taught”

this I believe Exodus 12 with the Passover probably came with a lecture and Moses said this land we're killing is the Son of Man that's not in Exodus 12 but I bet it was Book of Mormon talks about Moses raising a brazing serpent and then testifying that this would be like the Son of God and I'm like last not in numbers that's where it happened but it's not in there but it's in the Book of Mormon that and then he testified the Son of God will be raised up like this Bill Hamblon wrote an article

called vindicating Josiah in interpreter magazine and I think it really is a good balance to what I'm saying because once again I don't know if I'm right I know that there's different opinions on this and I don't want to be dogmatic in this I definitely lean a certain way that's because of what I've read but it doesn't mean I'm right Hamblon's article is a really good

“counter-to-raply's argument about laymen and laymen will be in due to anonymous we'll put those out there”

so you can read those and get an overall view of both sides of this argument what's going on at the

end of second Kings 23 what in the heck is Josiah doing there fighting the Egyptians big picture is

this is serious on their way out and Babelons on the rise the third empire is going to be Egypt Babelon has chase the Assyrian warriors all the way to Haran they've wrapped Nineveh in 612 it's completely wrecked and in the strange really weird twist of politics Egypt underneath of the second decides to march north to help their former enemies the Assyrians why do they want to do this well they want to buffer they want to check Babelonian power and by having a Syria have some more power they

can check them so that they can have power as well now anybody who studies geopolitics we see this happening even today whether it comes with embargoes or controlling trade there's so much going on even today when it comes to power every leader wants to defend their people well that's Egypt's take what's Josiah doing why does he want to stop the Egyptians he had just spent a ton of time reclaiming lands in the north from Assyrian dominance and changed their religion as it were and he

didn't want a Syria to come back in and take it you didn't want a Syria to have influence over the north when Josiah's mind we think we don't have Josiah's journal but in his mind stopping Egypt would help out but this was a fatal move Josiah viewed Babelon as the enemy of my enemy and there's a phrase it goes the enemy of my enemy as my friend Josiah seems to think hey if I do this

Niko at Huron in 609 but Niko doesn't give up he stays at a place called Karkimesh on the your phrase he's in he tries to hold a slice of the pie in Mesopotamia he tries to hold on but he gets wrecked in 605 his army gets pushed all the way back to Egypt and we read about that in

second king's 24/7 but that point Judah is a basal to Egypt now that Babelon has power

Judah finds itself on the wrong side of power Judah now it's sitting in this really weak position where Babelon has risen up they're still paying tribute to Egypt but in this story of this war

“remember once again Josiah goes up north to defend against a Syrian might so he's attacking Egypt”

why will because Egypt's running to their defense that's the backdrop to the second king's 23 if we read second king's 23 if we read verse 29 it says in the days of Pharaoh Niko King of Egypt went up against the king of a Syria to the river at your fraties Josiah went against him and slew him at Megito when he had seen him and his servants carried him in a chariot dead from Megito

this is Josiah dead they bring him to Jerusalem and they bury him in a supple curse

the people the land took Jeho as the son of Josiah and anointed him king that's the end of his reign in my opinion the dude ran a mistake reformers were not expecting this they thought that he was going to be the greatest thing ever there's these bits and kings where they rewrite history like little editorial insertions I want to read one of them now after we just read how he's killed in those verses starting in 29 30 31 let's go back go back to verse 24 and 24 it says the workers

with familiar spirits and the wizards and the images and the idols these are all the things that Josiah quote unquote put away that's verse 24 and verse 25 this is the greatest thing since sliced bread verse it says and liken to him meaning Josiah there is no king before him that turned to the Lord with all his heart in with all his soul and with all his might according to the law Moses neither after him arose there any like him so in other words from the perspective

of the dude ran a mistake historian verse 25 second king 23 says there's never been a king better

before or after once again I want to give a shout out to the book of Mormon if you read alma 13 verse 19 the author of alma 13 says that the greatest king ever is Melchizedek and Melchizedek there's no record an alma 13 of him going around killing a bunch of people he preaches repentance

“and the city becomes righteous so the book of Mormon I think can be read as a lens to help us”

understand this text I'm okay with this history history's messy if the history you're reading isn't making you uncomfortable you're probably not reading history so this is really uncomfortable the book of Mormon's gonna give us another lens after it says he's the greatest thing ever verse 26 in my opinion is an editorial insertion where a later editor is gonna say okay he's the greatest thing ever but then look at verse 26 not with saying the Lord turned not from the fierceness

of his wrath where with his anger was kindle against Judah because of the provocations that menasa did it's like well we're still gonna get wrecked because of menasa the Lord said verse 27 I will remove Judah out of my sight as I removed Israel and will cast off the city Jerusalem which I have chosen and the house of which I said here it is again Hashem my name the name will be there this is very much dunra on a mystic theology the name of God will be there even after it says

Josiah is the greatest thing ever you're still gonna get wrecked in my opinion in most scholars say hey this is an editorial insertion from a later reductor I know that's a lot of stuff sorry if that's super boring but it really helps you wrap your brain around this history like what's going on the center Josiah takes the throne we get a couple more leaders after Josiah but this is the slide

“downhill I actually had that note in my scriptures I think from Josh Sears a few years ago after”

verse 25 I had written this could be the initial ending sounds like you said they added some more they're like oh it didn't quite go the way we thought yeah this is showing is this is history this is messy it's written by humans they're writing it with a certain lens am I bashing the Bible by saying that you're showing us there's duteronomus there's what did you call there yeah so the yawuses from the south they portray God corporeal that elihus they portray God in visions and

dreams he's accessible that way they are representing a northern perspective and all of them have influence on what we're reading yeah everybody has a peace Mike we've looked at the Assyrian

little bit then we looked at Josiah and the reforms wrap it up for us what happens next so this is

“where the book of Mormon really picks up we read in 24 Jerusalem is besieged and is taken by the”

Nebuchadnezzar now Zeta Kayas put on the throne I'm kind of skipping a king here but Zeta Kayas put on a throne we read about this in verse 17 of chapter 24 his names Matt and Naya they change his name to Zeta Kaya and the author says he did evil in the side of the Lord Jeremiah tells him and warns him in the 37th and 38th chapter that you're going to get wrecked if you don't listen to this he says these words exactly he says if you will surrender to the officers of the king about one then your

life shall be spared this city will not be burned with fire you and your house shall live that's Jeremiah 38 17 for that Jeremiah's throne of prison Lehigh comes out and says kind of the same thing and they want to kill him this is the end of the monarchy as it were it's not good stuff they burn the house of the Lord they say his sons in verse 7 of chapter 25 it says they slew the sons of Zeta Kaya before his eyes and then they put out the eyes of Zeta Kayas so that's like the last thing

that he sees is his sons being killed and the temple being destroyed was super fascinating to me is the

“end if you skip to the end and I think this is important if you go to verse 27 of the very end”

it says it came to pass in the 7th 30th year of the captivity of Jehoachin King of Judah in the 12th month on the 7th 20th day of the month that evil Merodok King of Babylon in this year that he began to reign to lift up the head of Jehoachin King of Judah out of prison and he spaked kindly to him this king who's a descendant of Zeta Kayas who's a descendant of the Dividecline he's freed from prison verse 28 says that he spaked kindly to him and said his throne above the throne of the

kings that were with him in Babylon and he changed his prison garments and he did eat bread continually before him all the days of his life and his allowance was a continual allowance given him of the king a daily rate for every day all the days of his life and I wrote this in here and

my scriptures I remember the first time I really was pondering this on I wrote the book of kings

ends with a ray of hope Jehoachin is released and allowed to live after 37 years in prison a Dividic King lives this sparks at least to some in the Jewish tradition a hope for return of the Dividic dynasty this is considered by most cars to be a the Deuteronomistic redactors addition to the story that there is hope I'm a star wars nerd at heart but there's this one line in Empire strike back where Luke's taking off the spirit of Obi-Wan turns to Yoda and says that boy is our only hope

Yoda looks up and he says no there is another that's this idea of a remnant shall return the route shall grow a new branch this is Isaiah 11 we're gonna get another tree in my opinion Matthew chapter one

is continuing second king's 25 that the Dividic line is in Jesus even though they killed him

the tree is a symbol for the king the tree will live that's my conclusion to saying kings I want to end on the ruin the calamity yeah the temple's destroyed but that's the trauma that David cars talking about that trauma preserve the Bible because these people were so traumatized they wanted to know what do we do now now that we've lost our land in our temple one of the questions that sometimes comes up is you read it second king's 25 seven they slew the sons of Zatakaia

that didn't Zatakaia have the son named mulek where do we figure he came from in the Hebrew text it doesn't say all the sons of Zatakaia it just says Zatakaia what's interesting is that word mulek it's vowel differently but the word melec means king you look as a really cool kingly word it has the same Hebrew stem they just vowel it differently maybe mulek was like his throne name or maybe that was a code name but yeah the book of Mormon says here's a line of David that comes to

“the Americas that's pretty cool i think that's omni one or refers to her about that group it seems”

like they seem to be the ones that are the king men because they're claiming hey we came from a king we came from Zatakaia I think you're on to something isn't that an interesting complex little wrinkle in the book of Mormon there's so many of those aren't there they are claiming to be of high birth because they could claim Zatakaia well you can see why it's important this

divitic line is everything to these guys that end of second king's 25 feels like a bit of a post

credit scene it were it's ending and then there's just after the credits oh by the way man leave this open we're gonna leave this open for a sequel for a sequel

this whole time they've gone through this they're loving it at times our listeners assume that the guests we bring on have not seen the difficult times they have but you have your family has yet here you are you love this you can feel it exuding from you the excitement for scripture could you speak to them for a second what a scripture done for you in your difficulties the Lord

“through the scriptures honestly is literally say my life i didn't come from i'm a cry but um”

i didn't come from an active family i didn't have a dad my mom married three different men and so i had different men in my life but i didn't really have like a steady influence i was not active in the church and i remember being a 15-year-old kidner in the book of Mormon you know when you know that's when i had to make a decision because i wasn't living according to this stuff that i was reading so i had to make a decision it saved my life i would be literally dead

i would be an alcoholic my whole family on my mom's side no my mom's side it was what i knew we were all alcoholics alcoholism runs deep in my family and i know say my life i could talk about all day but i have had spiritual experiences where i'm like josa Smith did not write this

book is from heaven it's just been everything to me the amazing thing for me is as i've chased

biblical scholarship and really gone down some of these deep rabbit holes the book of Mormon is prophetic mid-rash on the bible it is prophetic commentary it isn't interpreting it it is showing you ways to read Isaiah how to read the due to anonymous reforms what Isaiah's

“doing there is so much in the book of Mormon and i think we haven't even exported all yet i think”

there's more to come which is so exciting but i remember after like the 10th or 12th time i read the book of Mormon i remember thinking okay i got this i know what it's about every time i read it i walk away and go how did i miss that i just did a presentation two days ago on the liturgical aspects of third Nephi i was reading one day like about a year ago i saw the liturgy of the temple in tetanocular in third Nephi not the stuff in the sermon on the mount that John Welch has done

but other stuff i thought i've read the book of Mormon more times than i can tell you and i was learning something i just thought there's power there in the restorations real i know people have issues about different social issues or whatever but if you get to the bare bones come and a crisis and be perfected in him that is gold thank you my thanks for spending the day with us i love it when my hand is tired from writing i'm trying to keep track of all the different

scriptures you know i got fingers and different no fingers and due to rotomy and someone first Nephi someone Jeremiah and i feel so uplifted that is the the power of scripture john what a great day

that last part speaking of ending on a beautiful high note i cannot deny what i felt it was so powerful

it was almost like there was a angel in heaven going look Mike's awake let's get him yeah here is a Bible amazing scholar reading this and going i am missing stuff every time i read it that's coming out this time what a testimony thank you for that thank you Mike thanks for having me with that we want to thank doctor Michael Day for being with us today it has been a treat a joy of feast we want to thank our executive producer shannon sornson our sponsors david and

“verless sornson and every episode we remember our founder Steve sornson we hope to join us next”

week we're going to do more old testament study on follow him as a thank you to our wonderful listeners we'd love to gift you the digital version of our book finding Jesus Christ in the old testament it offers short meaningful insights drawn from our past old testament episodes visit follow him dot co that's follow him dot co to download your free copy today and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition thank you for being part of our follow him family of course none of

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