Welcome to part two with Dr.
Go to second Kings chapter 5. This is a very famous episode and I want to point out a handful
“of items. Okay, let's do it. I could do this all day. This is so fun.”
Second Kings chapter 5 verse 1. Now, Neiman, captain of the host, John Herogen at Should Read Army, captain of the army of the King of Syria, was a great man. Now, notice how he's described a great man with his master and honorable. In the Hebrew, it's an idiom. It's very interesting. We have a lot of idioms in English that make no sense unless you're born and raised as an
English speaker. A lot of them, hundreds. This one says, "Where's translated honorable in the King
James? It's the lifted up of face. His face is lifted up." Because by him, the Lord noticed here, it's the Lord. Jehovah had given deliverance unto Syria. That's an whole new story. What the Lord delivered Syria during the war? Yes, it's right here. Because by him, Neiman, the Lord had given deliverance unto Syria, he was also a mighty man and Hebrew, it's Gibor. And Isaiah 9, 6, one of the strong names of Jehovah's El Gibor, God, the warrior, or God, the mighty, and power, or valor.
Notice this, the last word. In the King James says, "But he was a leper." In the King James has
but he was an italics. That's not in the Hebrew. In the Hebrew, it's more dramatic. He was a mighty man
“in valor, comma, pause, leper. That's how it should read. Leper, you don't want to be a leper”
during this age of the history. I don't even want to get a cold in that age of the history. Verse 2, "And the Syrians had gone out by companies, literally troops, is from the group, Gadad, one of the 12 tribes, the name Gad, it means troop, or fortune. It's also the root of Magito, Gad, Magito, place of troops, Magito, from Magito, Har, Magito, is where we get the word Armageddon. The hair, the ages, soft, and Hebrew, so instead of Har, Magito, Har, Magito, or Armageddon.
And had brought away captored out of the land a little made. Let's tell you what the little
“made is. We feel really bad for this little maid, whoever's writing this text doesn't use her name.”
I don't think it's a disfirmism. They probably didn't know, but the word is the female form of young man. So young woman, teenager, 20-year-old, 25-year-old, not an eight-year-old or six-year-old, and she waited on Naman's wife, so she was a servant for Naman's wife, but she was captive. I wish we knew more about her. Here we're talking about her, 20-hundred years later. She's a little made. She has faith in God's prophet. She was a follower of Elijah,
verse 3, and she said unto her mistress, meaning Naman's wife, "Would God my Lord, Naman, were with the prophet Elijah that is in Samaria?" For he would recover him of his leprosy. How much faith is this to say this to your mistress who's the wife of this great famous captain of the army? Wow. This one is a lesson for all the young women of the church and the young women everywhere. What a change you can make by having faith? Kind of like a Joseph of Egypt,
type story, a little miniature version there. Taking captive, probably doesn't want to be there, but it's still bearing testimony. Verse 4, and one went in, so a certain person we don't know who and told his Lord, Naman, and said, "Thus and thus said the maid, regarding Elijah, that's in the land of Israel." Verse 5 tells you how wealthy the king of Syria is. And verse 5, and the king of Syria said, "Go to, go!" And I will send a letter and to the king of Israel.
He's going to do it all the proper protocols, rather than just go to Elijah,
We're going to work through the king of Israel.
in January 1994, when I invited to become a member of the team, but translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls, Emmanuel Tove, who I still work with, were writing a brand-new book on Isaiah. He's an emeritus professor from the University of Jerusalem. He had written a letter of introduction, and this is similar, write a letter of introduction, and that letter would get me into the Dead Sea Scrolls. Go, and I will send a letter into the king of Israel, and when he departed and took
with him 10 talents of silver, this is amazing amount, and 6,000 pieces of gold and 10 changes
of Raymond. It's interesting they put that in there, and this is what they're going to pay Elijah to heal him. They didn't quite get the concept of a prophet of God. Now I'm going to jump down the whole story goes to verse 27. I want to go to verse 13 and point some things out. Can I stop for a second? I love when our audience can hear about a scholar by Don Perry, not being rejected because he's a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,
but being accepted because of his exceptional scholarship. There are Latter-day Saints with exceptional
scholarship who know the rules of scholarship so that they can be trusted with something like the
Dead Sea Scrolls, and not felt that they are going to have some bias or something like that because he knows how to look at them, knows the tools of scholarship to analyze it. I love that you could have that letter of introduction, and I love hearing that sort of thing about many of our scholars. So I just wanted to stop and say how wonderful is this that we have a faithful active Latter-day Saint who is one of the trusted people on the Dead Sea Scrolls. Do you think that's
“cool, Hank? I think that's amazing. I love that. I so appreciate that, John. Thank you so much.”
I reminded of one of the conferences that I attended and it was not a conference for Latter-day Saints as a conference for scholars. And we had a question and answer and I was on a panel with some other scholars. A dear lady said to me, "How did you, Dr. Perry, become involved in the Dead Sea Scrolls?" I did not hesitate and I said, "All the credit goes to God." Not because I had a PhD in the Hebrew Bible and I've been trained in it and I've spent years. I said, "The credit goes to
God." It was an act of God that I became a member of the team of translators of the Dead Sea Scrolls. She was taken back a little bit, one that someone on the panel would mention God freely and to that I would give credit to God. I think taken back in a good way. Before we continue, I'm wondering Hank, would it be okay if you summarized this story before we go to the conclusion? You've got to, I love this story. I did a talk called, "I love my friends." You can get it on YouTube. I talked about
“Naman's good friend who stops him from doing something really dumb. Naman is quite a name, isn't it?”
His parents probably said, "What should we name him?" and they thought, "Well, that's pretty good." "Well, how about Naman?" "That's a good one. I love it." He has leprosy, like we talked about, and he's heard there's a prophet in Israel. He goes to Elijah, must be a long ways to go. Elijah sends out a messenger that says, "Hey, he wants you to go wash in the Jordan River seven times." Naman is upset. He said, "Surely, I thought he talked to me face to face, and he said,
"I don't like the Jordan River. It's not very clean." He's about to go home when one of his servants says, "Hey, if he would have told you to do something huge, you would have done it. This isn't huge, but why don't you do it?" What a good friend who says, "You're going to make a poor choice here."
So he does it. He jumps into the Jordan River seven times, and he is healed. That was so powerful.
Thank you very much. I greatly appreciate it. I wanted to point out a couple things in verse 14, perhaps we can read it first, then went he down, and dipped himself seven times in Jordan,
“according to the saying of the man of God. That's what a lot of people call the Elijah and”
Elijah, "Each, high Elohim." The man of God, and his flesh came again like unto the flesh of a little child, and he was clean. First of all, the Jordan River centuries later, our Lord and Master would be baptized in that river. This is also the river that Elijah and then Elijah had
Divided with the power of the mantle.
seven is a very powerful and symbolic number. It's a literal number, but it's also symbolic.
Seven, and Hebrew, it's Shava. Shava is the root of bear Shava. There is Shava the city. Bear means a water well, the well of the seven, but also Shava means to swear or take an oath. So is it the well where someone took an oath, or is it the well of seven, like seven parts, or seven strings, or something that feed the well? There's also the famous name of Bathsheba,
“Bathsheba. Remember the widow of Yuraya, the wife of David and the mother of Solomon,”
Bath means daughter, so the daughter of seven or the daughter of an oath. And there are some other
names too, but seven is found very prominently in Leviticus, Exodus, and the book of Revelation, and it's used in ceremony. I'll give two or three out of maybe 20 or 30 examples. Exodus 29. Seven days, thou shalt make an atonement for the altar. Seven days, and the ritual included sprinkling holy oil seven times upon the altar. Some scholars like Bollinger, ethylbert, Bollinger. I tell my students, I say, if you have a child in it, ethyl boy, please consider ethylbert.
“He's a famous biblical scholar, if he is a believer, and the students don't know if I'm serious or not.”
He wrote a book called Number and Scripture, and he claims that the number seven
represent wholeness or completion. Seven times in Jordan, Jordan's a modest little river, then it says this flesh came clean and to liken to the flesh of a little child. This is fascinating because this is the God's hand healing name and from this horrible leprosy. For him to come up and he has flesh, not like a windblown sunburned soldier commander, but now the flesh of a little child. And then the last point I wanted to point out was he was clean. The word for clean is used in the
Scriptures often for ritually clean or ritually pure and it's used in connection with the temple and becoming pure so you can serve them temple. My lexicon one says, be morally clean or to be ceremonially clean. Did God make name and ceremonially clean or morally clean from previous whatever has happened in his life is a fascinating term. It's a loaded term. Are we seeing a type
“of baptism in the Jordan right there? I think so. And that's what baptism does. It makes you like a”
little child. Right. God is a dermatologist here. So let's proceed. The word is used to describe lots of different things. Is that right? Yes. The Hebrew word scholars now say it could be different skin diseases and not leprosy as we have thought in the past. Jesus is going to bring up this story. In the synagogue in Nazareth, isn't he's going to say, remember when nobody accepted a lexia as a prophet but there was a non-israelite who did? Yes. Good point. There were
10 talents to silver, 6,000 pieces of gold and 10 changes of Raymond and excuse me for being materialistic but where did that stuff go? Elisha would not take it. However, his servant, Gahazi went back and followed Neiman behind Elisha's back and followed the entourage with Neiman and his group and said something like, my master Elisha has changed his mind. He wants some of this money and he received some of it. When Elisha heard about it, Gahazi then became a leper.
He became a leper in place of Neiman. He got the same melody. Don't be greedy, Gahazi. Yeah, don't be greedy, follow the prophet. I'm going to have to bring that up with my kids. Don't be a greedy Gahazi. Well, he didn't take everything. Can I just have two of the changes
Of garments he said?
He said a talent of silver and two changes of garments. Out. He should have gone to Elisha.
He sees Elisha, can do miracles. He should have gone to Elisha and said, hey, remember how I need some clothes and so were? Oh, Gahazi. Oh, that reminds me of who is it in the book of Acts that holds back there? Yeah, Priscilla. And they just dropped dead. It's like, whoa, yeah. Chapter five, the last verse verse 27, Elisha speaking to Gahazi, the lepercy thereof of Neiman shall cleave unto thee and unto thy seed forever. And he went out from his presence and leper as
white as snow. The word for cleave interestingly is the same word in modern Hebrew as glue, like Elmer's glue. It'll be part of him just like glue. You're glued together.
“If you want to do a good little lesson on friends, you go to second Kings 5 13 like I mentioned”
and you talk about how this friend stood between his friend and a really bad choice and decided to say something. Yeah, that got to be some courage. He's just a servant. Think of all this simple things that we are asked to do, not great things. Simple things that stacked over time. We don't define ourselves by our goals. We shouldn't. We define ourselves by our habits. What simple things do you do every day? And where will that lead you? Instead of some one great thing?
Yeah, when present Oaks says do this small thing and we think, oh, that's not a big deal. I'm not going to do that. Maybe we're going to remember this verse. If the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, you probably would have done it. He's just asking you to do this small thing. Shouldn't you do it? It's similar to the serpent on the pole. All you have to do is look up to it. This look up. They did not think it would heal them, so they didn't look up. Great connection. Let's keep going.
Second Kings chapter 6 verse 8, but I'm not going to read the whole narrative. This is about the
prophet Elijah and the chariots of fires. We are returning to a chariot to remind everyone that
“Elijah had a servant. If you jumped to verse 15, remember that a serious king who was trying to”
capture Elijah had surrounded during the night with soldiers, horses, and chariots surrounded Elijah. Hoping to capture him. Oh, please, this is Elijah. Give it up. Stay home. Do important things. Read your scriptures. Verse 15, when the servant of the man of God, each halloween, the man of Elhim, was risen early and gone forth. Behold a host. Here it's a different word, John, by the way, from the host. This is the word hayeel. This is the same word that's found when it says a virtuous woman.
In Hebrew it's not a virtuous woman. It's a woman of power. That's a different discussion.
Ruth is also called a woman of power, a woman of hayeel. This is a powerful army, but powerful
“compass, the city, both with horses and chariots. These are actual horses, flesh and blood, and chariots.”
Elijah's servant said unto him, "Alas, my master, how shall we do?" Which we would say in English, what should we do? Verse 16, and Elijah answered, "Fear not." And the reason I'm bringing this up, I'm going to read two extraordinary quotes by modern apostles in just a minute. "Fear not for they that be with us are more than they that be with them." And Elijah prayed and said, "Lord, here we have again, Jehovah. I pray thee, and here again it's please."
Open his eyes, he may see, and the Lord opened the eyes of the young man, and he saw, and behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire. We often miss this, round about Elijah, surrounding Elijah, surrounding this God's prophet and seeer. Now I want to come back to verse 18 in a minute. There is this extra ordinary quote by
Elder Jeffree, our Holland.
veil. When disappointment and discouragement strike and they will, we need to remember that if our eyes could be opened, we would see horses and chariots of fire as far as the eye can see,
riding at great speed to come to our protection. They will always be there. These armies of heaven
in defense of Abraham's seed. I want to emphasize two or three things that I just read.
“One is, we would see horses and chariots of fire. How many, as far as the eye can see?”
I live in woodland hills, I can see the point of the mountain from woodland hills. Thirty miles, maybe. Horses and chariots as far as the eye can see. I believe Elder Holland here. I don't think he's using metaphors or symbols. I think this is real. We could see horses and chariots. Point two, riding at great speed, not just stopping for water for the horses and stopping and taking their time and walking, riding at great speed to come to our protection.
Number three, they will always be there. The armies of heaven. I believe it.
This is Elder Holland, the sources, however long and hard the road pages 13 and 14.
“This quote has given me so much peace over the years. I've got one more.”
President Henry B. Irene, it's found in an article O. E. that in bark, the insane magazine November 2008, quote, "I know that the promise of angels to bear us up is real. You might want to bring to memory the assurance of Elijah to his frightened servant. That assurance is ours when we feel close to being overwhelmed in our service. Elijah faced real and terrible opposition like that servant of Elijah. There's any lips he's here. Like that servant of
Elijah, there are more with you than those you can see opposed to you. Some who are with you will be invisible to your mortal eyes and of quote. Now I want to get back to what happens with Elijah we're back in second king six. We're continuing with verse 18. When they came down to him, Elijah prayed unto the Lord and said, "Smite this people I pray thee with blindness." Now this isn't the compassion yet, just hold on. The blindness everyone is going to be temporary and he,
the Lord smoked them with blindness according to the word of Elijah. I don't think this is literally blindness. I can't see anything but it might be verse 19 and Elijah said unto them, "This is not the way neither is this a city. Follow me and I'll bring you to the man whom you seek." Well the man that they are seeking is Elijah himself. But he led them to Samaria. Now they're in Dothan. Dothan is about 12 miles to Samaria. So Elijah is going to lead them from Dothan. This
ancient biblical town and there's a city there now to Samaria about 12 miles. And I did some calculating if the average person walks if it takes 15 to 22 minutes to walk a mile. Maybe that's on a track that's flat. They're going to be with the profany life ship for some time to walk the 12
“miles. So they walked the 12 miles. I'd love to know the conversations. What are they saying?”
Who are you, Mr? We can't see. And where are we going? The servant probably wonder what's going on. Now here's where the compassion comes in. They arrive in Samaria and verse 21. Remember, Elijah knows all these kings. The king of Israel said unto Elijah when he saw them. My father. Notice here again, it's father. It's not blood relationship. It's a term of respect.
Shall I smite them? Elijah brought the enemy right to Samaria. This beautiful powerful town
and the kings there. The kings sees that they're blind and they're helpless. Shall I smite them? Shall I smite them? And Elijah answered verse 22, "Thou shalt not smite them." What does
Thou smite them who thou's taken captive with a sword and with the eyeball?
Yeah, prisoners of war in here is a compassion. Don't smite them, set bread and water before them
“that they may eat drink and go to their master. That's Elijah the prophet. These are the people”
that tried to capture him. They were after him. They surrounded him. That's a powerful set of stories.
I'd like to go back to verse 16 again. When I see with us, I always think of the promise in the
prayer in the sacrament that they may always have his spirit to be with them. I love that. If we have the spirit with us, then they that be with us are more than they that be with them. I love that. God and one other person is a majority, right? If you have the spirit with you, that promise of God being with us, that's the name of Jesus. God with us, Emmanuel, you just see that so often that we'd never have to be alone. God, it can be with us. I love that. I appreciate that so much. You know,
as a teacher of youth, it's exactly what Elijah prayed. Please open their eyes that they can see. Oh, that they can see what I see. Yes. And only the Lord can do it. We can't force their eyes open. Same thing for my kids, right? Oh, I hope they see Lord help me. Lord open their eyes that they may see. It's a good prayer. Love it. Thank you. We've talked about Eli should be in the type in shadow of Jesus. Indeed, absolutely, positively. He was a type in shadow of Jesus.
“Remember, Moses 663, all things testify in me. I want to look at one more. It's in second”
King's 13. As two verses, they're powerful verses. I wonder if sometimes we read this text so fast.
We don't really see what's going on. Second King's 13 verse 20, and Eli should die and they buried him. Notice it doesn't say who buried him just as they buried him. So it's not an explicit subject. The people buried him. And the bands, for bands here, it should read troops. The troops, so soldiers of the mobites invaded the land at the coming end of the year, probably the new year. We have mobites coming into the land, and we've talked about the mobites earlier,
and they're invading the Israelites, they're coming in, invading, going out, coming in, and
“invading, going out. Eli's dead and he's buried, verse 21, and it came to pass as they were”
bearing another man. An unnamed man, they have us entourage, they're bearing this other man,
that behold, they spied a band or a troop of mobites. In haste, instead of giving this second man a proper
burial, because here's the enemy coming, they cast the man into the separate curve of Eli'sia. And when the man was let down cast into this tomb and touched the bones of Eli'sia, the dead man revived and stood on his feet. Even with the death of Eli'sia, the prophet, the second man is restored to life. This man was restored to life to mortality. When he touched the bones of Eli'sia, and we also know that through Jesus' death and resurrection, we will be
resurrected. He had that's a great type. He wasn't resurrected, like you said, he was brought back to mortality, because there's no resurrection yet, that's going to be Christ, but he was brought back to mortality. Well, there's just another place where Eli'sia is a type of Christ, which you've showed us so many today. Yet another one. Fantastic. Don, I'm reading ahead, and I just looked at second Kings 1323. The Lord was gracious unto them and had compassion on them and had respect unto them,
because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That would not destroy them, neither cast he them from his presence as yet. That's a nice hopeful verse, isn't it? Abraham, covenant in there. I love it. Excellent. Two concluding thoughts. One is the idea of 17 seconds. What do I mean by 17 seconds? According to one study, individuals who go to museums of art,
Spent on the average 17 seconds looking at a painting, 17 seconds.
That prompted an individual named Phil Terry in 2009 to start something called slow art day,
quote, "slow art day." That's where they would encourage patrons to go to museum and spend five to 10 minutes looking at a piece of art. Studying it up closed and then going from a little distance. Point number one is I really hope our audience will spend more than 17 seconds reading a verse or another verse or another verse. I hope that we will study verses closely and carefully when I teach the Hebrew Bible. Sometimes we will spend an hour reading one verse
in the Hebrew and discussing the different parts and aspects. And I don't mean just grammar
“I mean what does the verse mean? What does it mean to us? What does it mean to the ancients?”
How can we liken it and to us? That's point number one. Point two is I want to bear solemn testimony. I want to stand as a witness of someone who has studied the Hebrew Bible carefully and who's taught it for 34 years. The Hebrew Bible and all scriptures testify of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. This is not I believe this is I know. Through the power of the Holy Ghost we
can know all things. So I want to solemnly bear that witness. Thank you. Don. John, how many notes?
Have you taken? There's been a scholar in our midst, Hank, but the way you closed there is a testimony there for someone who knows 6,800 times, Lord in caps, meaning Jehovah. I love the idea of theophoric names because there's so many that have it. I, in them, like Jehovah or an L in them, Michael, Daniel, Nathaniel, so fun to see the names of God in the names of people. How important it was to them for an identity that we take upon ourselves the name of Christ. Whether God is in our name or not
“today, we all do that. Take the name of Christ upon us in the sacrament covenant. I think it's cool.”
Thirty groups of Hebrewisms. Hundreds of examples of Veech. Is that a book project someday? That'd be fun to see. That's a book that was published by the RSC. The Religious Studies Center BYU. It's already published. It's out there. What's it called? It's called "preserved and translation." Colen. Hebrewisms. And other ancient literary forms in the Book of Mormon. 2020. John, I have a couple questions for you. One, it's obvious to everybody listening that you love
Scripture. Not everybody is there. Can you help someone who's listening who wants to be there? How can they get there? It's a great question. I would suggest take baby steps. Line up online. Maybe start with a verse. Study the verse more than they feel comfortable. And ask questions of the verse. There should be at least two outlooks. There are six outlooks for every
“verse of Scripture published. Six outlooks. One is what did that verse mean to the audience?”
When I say a spoke, when Nephayaama, Elijah, what does it mean to them? Another of the six outlooks is what does it mean to me? How can it change my life? Take your time. Instead of 17 seconds, take a couple minutes. I ask a lot of questions. I'll liken that. And to me years ago, I went to the gym regularly and had a set work out. About three years ago, I returned to the gym and I was a little tentative and I started line-up
online. My physician said go easy because of my age 40 plus and I started easy and I worked into it and now I do 630 repetitions on different weights. I'll do this one over here. I'll do 10, 10, 10, 10,
Three sets of 10.
There was a stair climber at the BYU gym and I worked on the stair climber and I went 10 floors.
“And I huffed and puffed and I thought, "Is this worth it?" And I looked over at the guy next to me.”
So I was on the 9th floor. He was on the 99th floor. The guy next to me. I will admit I was so thankful that BYU removed those stair climbers. There were two of them from the gym. Just like I worked into the weights, now I'm confident and I have this set routine and this protocol and I go, Monday, Wednesday and Friday, like clockwork, even if I'm traveling abroad, I'll find a hotel or a cruise ship and I'll do it. And the scriptures are a thousand times more important than
what I'm saying with workout, but spend more than the seconds, study it and then go to the next
verse. That's not to take away from reading your chapter too from the book of Mormon.
“We're all really busy, but just spend more time. That's what I suggest.”
I just texted Coach Sataki about your 630 reps. He needs to know you. Did you say they were 6 approaches? What does it mean to them? What does it mean to me? They're called 6 Outlooks. You can apply all 6 to all the scriptures. Number one is reading the scripture in its historical context. Scholars call that the near view or the contemporaneous view.
What does it mean at the time of Moses, Isaiah, Amos, Hannah, Ruth, Elma, and Roni?
What did it mean to them? Read the scripture in its context. That's an exagetical reading, right? Done. Yes. Number two is reading prophecy. It's called a distant view, reading into the future. That would be Isaiah 53 for example. You read Isaiah 53. What does this mean? Several New Testament writers and a Benedictine in the Book of Mormon all relate. Isaiah 53 are parts of it to Jesus Christ and Messiah. Reading prophecy, some people say there's no such thing as
prophecy. Profits can't prophecy. Not later they say it. I'm just speaking of people out there
“different scholars. Number three is recognizing dual or multiple fulfillment prophecies. That's what”
you call reading a near view and a distant view. President Oaks has talked about that before and given examples of how some prophecies are multiple fulfillment. The same prophecy can have two valid and legitimate fulfillment. That's a very important one. That's number three. And I had one person say, oh, that doesn't exist. There's no such thing. You can't have two legitimate prophecies. I just quote President Oaks on that one. Number four is likening Isaiah's
words to us. This is not only a book of Mormon teaching. We like in the scriptures, but the as seen Jews who own the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are Hebrew words for this. Like in the scriptures and to themselves. For example, they would take Isaiah. It's called a Peshire, P. E. S. H. E. R. Peshire, they would read a verse from Isaiah and liken it into their own community. Well, we're invited to do that and we can do that with any verse in scripture. They're speaking of Goel or Redeemer,
small R, in Ruth chapter four, how can this apply to me and to the Savior who is a Redeemer, capital R, Redeemer, the Redeemer of Israel? Any verse, any topic? Number five out of the six out What Lux is reading a passage of Scripture for personal reasons. That is for personal instruction for spiritual guidance, for devotionalistic purposes. To receive personal revelation for other reasons, here's an example.
I, Don Perry, need to know where to go to grad school. For example, who to marry? What do I do with my life occupation, and your reading the Scriptures, and the Lord will reveal something to you personally, that might have nothing to do with the passage you're
Reading.
Your reading Isaiah, Ezekiel, Arama, or Nephi, and you get this light, the light, the Holy Ghost,
“their prompt to, Don, you need to include the Hebrew University of Jerusalem in your grad”
school studies, that reason will be revealed to you down the road. I don't have the money to take four kids to Israel. How do I do that? Don, I'm in charge. Number six is to read Scripture to understand doctrine.
This one is so important. I've met some good friends who have left the church because they didn't understand doctrine.
If they had been aware of how Jehovah or how God works with some of the ancients, or
if they had have read this passage, or this one, instead they've read something online by an anonymous writer who made these claims, if they had have known doctrine well enough, you'd say, "Oh, that's clear.
“Read Ezekiel, read Amas, read Alma, read Dockner, chemist section 42, at some point.”
I don't want to hear it. I don't even want to discuss with you. I've made up my mind." But if they had have known doctrine, in some cases, I'm not speaking of all cases, then some of my acquaintances, and I don't have many, two or three maybe, wouldn't have left
the church. Well, those are the six. Great. Thank you for that. Yeah, I especially liked the fact that it puts you in a frame of mind to receive inspiration,
like you said, that may have nothing to do with the actual words you're reading, but you're in a frame of mind because you're seeking the spirit, and you'll get answers, no matter what you're reading. You could be reading about she bears coming out of the woods, and it still gets them in sight.
Yeah, I remember when Rosalyn Welts told us that the scriptures are a place to meet the Lord, kind of walk in and start looking around, but for him. Don, maybe one more question. Maybe two.
“How have you seen the scriptures help those who are suffering?”
Because we think, here I am going through this whatever terrible trial, so many are going
through them who are our listeners, and I think, well, second kings, let's get help me with
my difficulty. So what have you seen in your life? How do scriptures have they helped you through hard times? For me personally, all scripture helps with whatever my condition is, whatever my state of being is, whether physical health or mental issue or whatever, all scripture helps in
me scripture. Every verse, at one point, I is with a group of about 25 people, they need it enough left. I randomly had them choose a verse of scripture, randomly we read it, light came into the rise. It was a physical change.
So random chosen picture or verse, and light came on in the room. I mean, there's a full story behind it, that's all I'm going to tell this time, but it brings up a ray of light, a scripture, a verse. It brings a light and hope and love and the love of God, absolutely, and all scripture. I like that you said a ray, who is that that gave the general conference talk about those
rays combined, can create a pillar of light, we keep adding rays every day, I love it. And each one of these stories today had these rays of light. The Holy Ghost accompanies scripture, the Word of God which heals the wounded soul. There may be a myth out there that, well, educated people don't believe. You have earned your education, your languages, your scholarship is top notch, your work on
the Dead Sea Scrolls is up there with any other Dead Sea Scrolls scholar or above. So when someone says, oh, well, educated people don't believe what your response to that, because here you are, very educated and you believe. I was on a boat, not a ship, in the fjords of Norway. I was with a group of professors of Hebrew and we were taking a break from our conference.
In the break was, let's go out on a boat and it was organized beforehand for the afternoon
In the fjords of Norway.
We were discussing whether scripture in this case is Old Testament, was fiction or nonfiction.
“I was only later day saint in the group.”
I was very interested to hear them say, this is fiction, this is fiction, this is not fiction, how do we know, this is not fiction, no one brought up the power of the Holy Ghost. In the end one individual said, I will conclude this and I will settle the matter in this individual set up with some degree of completeness and finality. Everything in the Old Testament is fiction up to the time of King David.
King David was the first historical figure, according to this individual.
So I was not there to convince them, here's my response and I've used this, I've had people ask me this question often, here's my response. Ronite ten five, it's a famous passage, by the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth, no, not believe, no, the truth of all things. I take this literal by the Holy Ghost, we'll know the truth of all things, including the
book Mormons of Word of God. The notice says, no, not believe, I want to emphasize that because I've heard people say,
“I believe, I don't know if I know, but I believe, but we can know from this passage.”
The key here is to live, to receive the Holy Ghost, to study, to do your homework, to be diligent, to be prayerful, and you may know the truth of all things, including the Old Testament and other scriptures. You are believer, dawn, through and through, and someone might say, that's too simple.
It's simple, it's powerful, and it's truth.
As an expert in ancient scripture, how does the restoration shake out? Do you see those worlds coming together? You know the ancient world, as well as any scholar out there, and here you are in Latter Day Saint temples, reading Latter-day Saint Restoration Scripture, have you seen those worlds come together?
Oh, absolutely, positively. No hesitation. I'll give you an example.
“I was in Huntington Beach, California, presenting on ancient temples.”
The Tabernacle Moses and Solomon's Temple, the stake had a display.
They actually had a full model of the Tabernacle of Moses. The same one that came to be where you, a man came up to me and said, "Your Salt Lake Temple has nothing to do with ancient temples." Nothing. He was adamant, his face was flushed red, he was ready to battle.
I didn't battle, I was careful. There are about 30 correspondences between ancient temples and modern temples. This is one example in answering your question about the Restoration. Joseph Smith, when he restored our temple, threw the power of God and through the power of the spirit and with the help of angels, restored 30 correspondences between ancient modern
temples. 30. Maybe 35, but I'm running it off to 30. 30 correspondences, that's astounding. Our temple is a Restoration of Ancient temples, ancient temple doctrines.
He's made several comments about it, several statements. That's just one aspect here. I could give you several examples of the correspondences between ancient modern temples that are astounding. Another example is gradations of holiness.
How many people know about gradations of holiness? The idea of you begin at a holy space and you go to a holier space and a holier space to a holier place. We have that in our temples. That's also a major theme of the Tabernacle Moses, a temple of Solomon.
You find it in Herod's temple. Yes, what you find it in the temple's scroll, 28 foot scroll, found in the Dead Sea scrolls in the 1950s. Another example of the Restoration is coming forth to the Book of Mormon. We've already talked about it a lot and about the Hebrew likes, expressions found in the
Book of Mormon. I'm astounded. It's a Restoration through the Prophet and Sir Joseph Smith and the Restoration
Is on going, said President Nelson.
The Book of Moses has many Hebrewisms in it.
No one has investigated that yet. We've investigated thoroughly the Book of Mormon. That's not to say that we've completed the investigation. No one has investigated the Book of Moses. It is filled with Hebrewisms.
I've given so many firesides on the temples and the correspondences. I've also shared years ago with the temple department of the church. I went and spoke to the architects and they had a retreat. People have to ask how did Joseph Smith get that right. Here's another example.
Ancient modern temples teach powerful truths regarding the atonement.
President Russell and Nelson said the basis for every temple ordinance and covenant, the heart of the plan of salvation is the atonement of Jesus Christ. Every activity, every lesson, all we do in the church, point to the Lord and his holy house. Our efforts to proclaim the gospel, perfect the saints and redeem the dead all lead
to the temple.
“But here's the key, the basis for every temple ordinance and covenant is the atonement”
of Jesus. Now you go back into the the law of Moses, the law of Moses attests the Hebrew word "capar" or "keepar" depending on which verbal form, which means to a tone or atonement, the word atonement, any times in connection with the tabernacle in the temple. Then times in Exodus, 49 times in Leviticus, 18 times in Numbers and 3 times in Deuteronomy.
The temple, ancient temple, was an atonement focused institution. Period. Now that's not to say that every faith in the world believes that atonement points to Jesus. That's a Christian. I just love the idea that they took a temple with them, the tabernacle, that they surrounded
it the way they camped, that it was the center of their life. Literally, physically the center of their life.
Then when they finally got to Jerusalem, they built that center and everything seemed
to be centered around the temple and look at the restoration, how it was job one. We got to build a temple and everywhere they went, we got to build a temple. John, that's one of the 30 that idea of the temple being the center, good call. How do you feel about the book Mormon with your ancient languages background? First I testified it, so we're to God and it came through the prophet and Sarah Joseph Smith
absolutely, positively. When I read the book Mormon, I can see ancient Israel, ancient Israel, like culture, ancient Hebrewism, throughout the book Mormon, maybe every page. How good would this farmer have to be done? He was indeed a prophet and Sarah.
“That's the only way the gift and power of God, the gift and power of God, a scholar with all”
the knowledge couldn't write that in the amount of time, but to write it what in a few weeks to translate it, I have identified others have identified two, but 292 chiasmosis in the book of Mormon, good chiasmosis. If you say, okay, we're giving you 12 weeks or 10 weeks to write 292 chiasmosis, just by themselves, but put them in a context, put them in a narrative, put them in the book
of Mormon, there's no way. Try to dictate down the 36 out of your head, oh sure, yeah, that's right, just come up with it on the spot, right? Yeah, I have no doubt about the book of Mormon, no doubt. It's ancient, it comes out of the ancient world.
Don, thank you, not only have you walked us through kings, but your testimony has strengthened many listening, it was just a joy.
“John, I remember probably 10 years ago, long before we started the show, I was reading”
a book by John and the book Revelation, preparing for a lesson, and what if you would have told me, hey, by the way, you and John, by the way, going to interview Dr. Perry on a podcast. I would have had a bunch of questions for John, thank you for being here, taking your time to be with us, what a huge, eternal privilege to talk about the Lord, the Lord and
Elycia, the Lord and Elijah, the Lord and the miracles, the Lord and ancient ...
a privilege?
“And he's still a God of miracles, he's a God of miracles.”
Don, thank you, with that we want to thank Dr. Don Perry for being with us today.
We want to thank our executive producer, Shannon Sourntzen, our sponsors, David and
“Verla Sourntzen, and every episode, we remember our founder, Steve Sourntzen.”
We hope you'll join us next week, we're going to continue our march through the Old Testament on Follow Him.
“As a thank you to our wonderful listeners, we'd love to give to you the digital version”
of our book, Finding Jesus Christ in the Old Testament, and offer short, meaningful insights drawn from our past Old Testament episode, visit followhim.co, that's followhim.co, to download your free copy today, and you'll also find the link to purchase the print edition. Thank you for being part of our Follow Him family.
Of course none of this could happen without our incredible production crew.
David Perry, Lisa Spice, Will Stokedon, Crystal Roberts, R.E.L. Kuwater, Heather Barlow, Amelia Kubica, Sydney Smith, and Annabelle Sourntzen, whatever questions your problems you have,
the answers always found in the life and teachings of Jesus Christ, turn to Him, follow
Him.
