UNCUT: KFC - Kissing, Foreplay and Chemistry. It's Finger Lickin' Good.

I am a Fiji and Indian woman of immigrant parents and am proud to live work and play on Whatchuk-nunga Country.

“This podcast acknowledges the past, present and future traditional custodians of stolen country”

and the impact this has had on the health and well-being of our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander brothers and sisters.

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Hi, team. Now, whilst we are health care professionals, this episode is for informational purposes only and it does not replace personalised health care advice. Your health is unique to you. If you have health care concerns, please seek out your local health professional. No, no, no, sorry. Thanks. Thank you back. Thank you. It's the beer. Be as in verbs. Be as in verbs. And being breath. Yeah. Be the baby. I love it. I like it. No, sorry. Hello and welcome back. We are your beloved co-host, Dr. Sharmini and Nurse Elly.

And this is for Goodness 6. Gigli. Well hello, dear Elly. Hi, darling. How are you? I am very well. Thank you.

You've had a spectacular weekend. I have had maybe the best weekend of my life. I can do too. And my brother always rolls his eyes because he's like, "How can you have the best weekend of your life every weekend?" I'm like, "Sorry. Sorry, Paul. I've lived in the dream." I'm going to have the best time. My friends and I, we threw a boat party and it was just magical.

We originally threw it because we booked a like famous DJ to come over. That was the reason we threw the boat party. But the DJ got sick and pulled out last minute. And it ended up being the best ever because everyone just showed up and like brought the vibe extra hard. And we just had like all local DJs just playing the best music. Well, it's like sunset crews along the durable year again. I like a sunny along while you're up free mental river. He's sun going down

light, smoke machine to 66. He transcended dancing music. It was awesome. Amazing.

Yeah. So flying through the week. Okay, stunning. I have nothing great to contribute. I'm so sorry. I'm just all-worked and I play. Okay, that's fine. Sorry. That's fine. It's the beer. The beer. Beers and burps and babes and being brave. Yeah. Be the baby.

“Cool. So that's me. Okay, great. Yeah. Well, should I tell you how I am on it?”

I was sorry. I was good. I was good. I was good. I was good. How are you? Yeah. I'm good. Got cool. So I got our asked. Thanks for asking. The end. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I can't drink, I can't drink, I can't drink. Yeah, look, my weekend was good. It didn't quite have, like, a life-changing weekend. But I did go to a gig in Frio, instead of a night. I went and saw Nick Cave in the basket.

Yes, Tony, please don't. It was good, Tony. Actually, really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Nice.

Yeah, I enjoyed it. Worked. Yeah. Clean my room. You go.

Actually, I had quite a good self-care weekend. It's really productive. That's awesome. Yeah, feels good. I'm going to sleep well.

Yeah. Okay, proud of you. Yeah, thank you. That is a win. That's a win.

That's a win. That's a win. That's a win. Yeah. My brother's been his pound-up.

It's stunning. Okay, great. Big, great. Yeah. Okay, such a day.

Another round cut. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That also, like, we did prepare a little bit.

We prepared something a little bit in conversation before. It's who we are. It's who we are. Yeah, I love the uncuts. Yeah.

It's fucking good. Let's go. So we're going to talk about kissing chemistry and foreplay.

So speaking of kissing, can you tell me about your first kiss?

I think that I can. Great. Tell me. And I'm going to go like first proper kiss. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. So yeah, definitely. So prime school went to a co-ed prime school in North Freyoke. It was quite alternative, and she peered a few will.

We go to the park. We play spin the bottle, and then like if you landed on someone twice, you bet now you have to make out them. Kiss them laying down.

“Now you have to kiss them like grab their ass and stuff like this.”

Hey, wow. Is this wild?

So yeah, gone.

But no, I guess I have my first boyfriend, Sanjay, San toss.

Oops. [LAUGHTER] Sanjay, glistening. Covation full name in, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind his gorgeous. Good, good boy.

And he was so sweet. I did what he gave, some of his letters. Yeah, he's so cute. He's like cute. Yeah.

OK. And then my best friend Joanne at the time, there was his whole thing in maybe six and seven, where we were both fighting over him, like constantly. And he like dated me, then dated her, then dated me, then dated me, then dated me. It was a whole thing.

And I was tort at the park. I remember, I just remember the Veronica's. Because you're ever with him, ever with him.

“No, that's what we used, like, my best friend and I used to sing about each other.”

Oh, oh. And then we realized that we were singing about each other, then we were like, you don't eat even. Anyway, so yeah, my first guest was probably probably with Sanjay. OK. And it was mostly.

OK, nice. OK. Yeah. Yeah, mine was much later on. So I was like, I've thought about this.

I was like, do I use the term late bloomer? But I also don't want to stigmatize people who explore their sexuality later in life, right? I think there's a lot. Yeah.

So I was actually 19. So I didn't kiss anybody. But it is such a thing. Yes. I feel so ashamed.

No. I don't know. No. So I tell you why. So again, I think like I mentioned this in a previous episode about growing up in a household

that didn't really show affection. I grew up in a very conservative household. Like boys were a big no-no. I went to a co-ed primary school, but again, I think I mentioned the stuff about being other than just feeling a little bit out of place there.

And then I went to an old girl school, and then I didn't, I wasn't attracted to girls. So it wasn't something I really ever thought about. I wasn't really ever exposed to boys. That's actually the truth. And then when I went to college, my first year at college I was 19 or 18.

Actually, I was 18 when I'm at my first kiss. And that's when it happened. And actually, my first kiss was, this is like kind of tragic.

“Oh, I think about this, because my first kiss was actually on a stage show.”

Can you believe that? But that's also kind of camp. I couldn't tell anyone that I hadn't kissed anyone. And so I had to kiss this guy, and he was like playing opposite me in this musical. We were doing college.

What musical? It was the boyfriend. But he wasn't the boyfriend. You're the boyfriend. You're the boyfriend.

But truly Andrew Steeb was like a first musical, the shivered. No? I don't know what personally. Okay, yeah. And he was one of the characters.

And I just remember he loved Lee. But I just remember it being really sloppy. Like, just like a lot of-- It was a full make-up. Yeah, it was a full make-up.

And I had never kissed anyone before, so I was like around.

Never been kissed. Never been kissed. Never been kissed. Never been kissed. I was ashamed of it.

No, I shouldn't. I wasn't. But I was like, oh, God, this is weird. Well, can I just say that? I didn't from a co-ed primary school to an August Catholic.

Yeah. High school. And my experience was completely different to everyone. So everyone that went to the August school also gone to the August primary school. And they were shook that even new boys.

Yeah. They could not fathom that even new boys. Yeah. They couldn't believe I'd kissed. So they were all very much in the same boat as you.

They were like, how do you meet boys? I've never kissed a boy, never talked to a boy. So it really touched show. Now that I'm talking about it more, I did have like a boy. My favorite in primary school.

I was actually so sweet. So he used to wait at the door of the school classroom for me to arrive at school and give me like a kiss on the cheek and walk me into class every day. Stop it. Yeah.

That's so cute. That's so cute. Did that for an entire year? Yeah. I felt some of my most romantic, just sometimes we're in primary school.

Yeah.

“Like, because of an E on it, never forget it.”

Okay, stunning. I didn't want me to forever share like Christmas tree towel. I've never forget it. (laughs) Truly.

We're a man started. I'm going to start. Okay, that's fine. But yeah. Kissing, kissing, kissing, kissing.

Kissing. Kissing, kissing, kissing. Kissing. Kissing. Kissing.

Kissing. Kissing. I'm going to destroy. I'm going to destroy the other day before we get into it. I saw this meme the other day that was like, you can de-escalate any stressful situation

with anyone by just saying, "Oh, we're going to kiss." Brilliant. We're about to kiss. It's brilliant. Yeah.

That's going to be my goal for 2020 seeks to do that at some point. Do it. Yeah. Are you stunning? I actually thought we would start by talking about the history of the human kiss.

Oh, my god, true. Yeah, why not? Why do we even do it? Why do we do it? Do you know why we do it?

Because it friggin' rock? Yes. It's actually really interesting. I bet.

So we think that kissing appeared as a trait in our ape ancestors about 21.5 million

So despite how commonplace it is, we actually still don't know to this day the exact

reason why we do it. All right, come on in. I don't know. But there are a few hypotheses. We go into it.

“But yeah, this has been quite a bit of research into this, which I thought was quite”

interesting. But we haven't settled on anything specific, but we're going to say there are a few theories. So we think that kissing can be used in a simply a platonic way as in like kiss and make-up. So there has been some research in chimpanzees, they'll get into a little fight and then they'll kiss and like make-up.

Oh, yes. I know. Oh, my god. That's some videos of that. Yeah, yeah.

But when it comes to sexual kissing, which is sort of the aim of this podcast, we think it could have developed as a way of assessing the other person as a suitable mate in terms of procreation. Okay. But this is very heteronormative theory, right.

So that's kind of all we've sort of established in that sense. There are a few more theories, please. These are a little odd, but just bear with me. One is that babies have an affiliation for lip touching because it could be a reflex for breastfeeding.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Makes sense. The other theory is called pre-mastication food transfer. Uh-huh.

You know what that is? Yeah. So where mothers have talking birds? Yeah. Or even mothers.

Yeah.

“But mothers will treat their food and transfer it from their mouths.”

And it sounds a little gross, but actually on reflection, my mum used to do this. I'm into it. So she didn't actually put her mouth on mine, but she would chew and then actually feed me. Yeah, and actually still exists.

Yeah. And many, many cultures. And we'd be into that. Yeah. You know, like, or like transferring water from mouth to mouth, like, or like, yeah.

I've done that part as well. It's kind of joking as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like, yes.

Bonding survival. Yeah. It's hard to know. It could just be purely sensation. Yeah.

Reflexive. So we still right now. Well, you know. It feels good. It does feel good.

Yeah. Well, I had a colleague today, as well, mentioned that potentially, this, like, something to do with, like, our genetics and, like, denames saliva. Yes. That's a really good point.

Yeah. Let's talk a bit about the science. Please talk about the science. We love science.

So actually, when you kiss someone, you can transfer 80 million bacteria to each other during

a kiss. Sharing bars. Yes. We like. We actually like it.

So we're sharing books. Yeah. We've talked a bit about microbiomes. So we mentioned the vaginal microbiome, the gut, and the mouth. And this is how we, we can actually strengthen our oral microbiome, not typically after

just one kiss, but it can happen in couples who kiss frequently over time, which actually can strengthen their diversity and the strength of the existing bacteria. Okay. Okay. So what you're saying is the more kissing we do, the stronger and more powerful we become.

Essentially. Yep. Absolutely. I must be the strongest person. Absolutely.

I have no doubt. I've zeroed out about that. Yeah. You're saying with the same partner. Because love is worth of.

Yeah. It's so in the same partner. So when we transfer that bacteria over and over and over again. I see. And if strengthens the diversity of it.

That's so pretty beautiful. Yeah, it's lovely. Can it make sense? Because everything's connected. Yeah.

“And when we do kiss, we actually release some really important chemicals.”

Before we get into that. Sorry. Yeah. No. Sorry.

I'm just back on the signals. 50 Lash eggs. Yeah. Back on the signaling. Yeah.

We spoke about this before. Yeah. And like BV and Thrash, and those sort of vaginal conditions. And sometimes you sleep at someone and you're like, I don't think my bugs like that person.

Yeah. Absolutely. You sleep at someone you like. And you don't have anything's fine. Yeah.

My bugs love your bugs. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

It's kind of cool. So yeah. When we kiss, we also release some important chemicals. So this includes oxytocin known as the love hormone. Yeah.

Which we love. This can enhance bonding and actually deepen connections with people. This is the stuff I love. Oh my god. So I don't love.

And then we can also release dopamine, which activates our pipe, so which acts to vaccinate our pleasure centers. And also serotonin at the same time, which stabilizes our mood. These are great things. They should be more kissy.

We should be kissing way more.

Basically kissing is really good for us.

Yeah. But particularly dopamine was quite interesting for me because we talk a lot about dopamine seeking in adrenaline field activities when we could be or even like, you know, social media or quick fixes or things like that. When really, just a nice, beautiful kiss with someone is enough to activate that.

And how what a beautiful thing to do to connect with somebody that way. You're rather than sitting like scroll through your phone. Thanks for that. Stunning. So stunning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

“I have this conversation a lot with my friends though, like even when we went to like”

steamworks and the just just the clarity steamworks and now for those who listen to

very steamworks is essentially the gay male sauna in person. But you continue. Yes. And every fortnight they have a fluid night for all genders. And once a year my friends also throw a party there, which is super fun.

And every time I'm like, I really love to have sex that you're in this sauna here. There's lots of rooms where you could, it's people go to dance and just make out and like be a bit naked and not go in the spa. But there are separate rooms for people to go off and have sex right around her. And I just would like the experience, you know, every year.

I'm just like boogeying, like dancing, yapping, having the best time. But last year I was like, do you don't want just some making out and like heavy padding on the dance floor? Yeah. Yeah.

It's the best. Yeah. It's the best part anyway. - Yeah, cool. - It's the bonding.

- It's the bonding. - Yeah, but there's also other things that can help respond. - Yeah, okay. - I like to talk about erogenous areas. (sighs)

- Yes.

- We love erogenous areas.

- You know what? - Just popped into my mind. - Mm-hmm. I've friends ever so I've been Monica's like, four, five, seven, seven, seven, obviously. - No. (laughs)

- I'll put the scene on socials when I post about it. So it's not very great. - Yeah, it's great. - Please tell us about erogenous areas. - Yes.

- So I guess the key to think about is,

“firstly, with kissing, it's not always lip-to-lip, right?”

So these can include some of our erogenous areas. - Mm-hmm. - So erogenous areas are areas that are sensitive to touch. - Touch, touch, where do you like to be touched? - In terms of--

- Oh, okay, I'll get to that in a minute. - Oh, no, okay, yeah, yeah. I was just trying to be sexy, but it's also really going-- - Yeah, I know. - So, it was actually previously thought

that sexual arousal required genital touching only. But it actually turns out, we have lots of wonderful spots to stimulate for arousal. And some of these areas, the stimulation only, can lead to an orgasm.

- Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Do you want to share?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so yeah, I've come from kissing before. - Love that. - Yeah, it was awesome. - I can imagine.

- It was so awesome. - Yeah. - I feel like, you know, when-- I've seen that when people have like, non-touch orgasms just from energy.

- Yes.

“- I feel like that's something that I could achieve.”

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the right situation. - Yeah. - So often sometimes, even when I'm meditating. - Yeah. - But often I'm meditating.

And sometimes, like, it would just-- - And she would go to-- - Right, yeah. - And I might-- - Okay, if I wanted to, I could just really

send this home and just bump in like a room with like this before. - Yeah. - But yeah, my long-term partner and I loved each other. Bugs, loved each other's bugs.

Really good sex, really good chemistry, really good kissing. And yeah, we, full, like obviously there's lots of build up where the energy was already building up heaps. And then it was very much like a very intense, like, tongue fucking kind of scenario.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And the tongue is in a lodge in this area. So that works. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah. - Wow. - Okay, love that. So yeah, that's certainly one of the areas. And the other areas can include breast nipples.

Leaps, also just touching lips.

So not always just kissing.

Neck and the nape of the neck is buttocks and inner thighs. - No. - Yeah, my colleague also today said they've come very close to coming with neck kisses. - Wow.

- Okay, that's wild. How exciting. - Is, oh, yeah, yeah, I mean, starting to understand. - What about the weakness? What?

- What? Is the weakness one? - What? - No, not, not, this is going to stop. - Could you just, could you just outline

to the listeners what you mean by the weakness? - The weakness is the skin on your elbow. - Okay, that's not in the-- - And not for me, but maybe for someone. - Maybe.

- No, it's everyone's got their thing. But there was a study that came out in 2016 that actually demonstrated there were more, more arogenous zones during six with a partner as opposed to masturbating.

So the number of arogenous areas for that individual was higher during intercourse with somebody rather than masturbating. - And as in those arogenous areas. - So if you're masturbating.

- Activated. - Yeah, like as in, you could have more areas that were sensitive to the touch of your sex. - Yeah, yeah. - And if you were say masturbating

and maybe like stimulating your own nipples or something, and then you were also doing other things, it's not as sufficient to say that. So that might lead to more kind of chemical connections of things like that.

- But they think it could be in terms of peer bonding, as well. So like bonding between two parties. - Part of that goes straight to a fruit.

- Oh, the sexy fair bonding.

- Yeah, I think. - Maybe pay two bonding, okay. - So I'm just allowed to do that. - I don't know, I just allowed them to do that thing. - Exgest a pair.

(laughing)

“- So yeah, I guess the summary is kissing is the only thing”

that can stimulate these areas. So remember to get experimenting with pressure, pace, touch, different body parts, all that kind of stuff, and see what you, you see what you can come up with.

- So I'm important. - I'm exciting. - What's your most erogenous zone, Ellie? I'm curious. - Oh my God.

- Okay, okay, okay. I wouldn't have, like, I wouldn't have originally said the tongue, like if it wasn't for that experience, and now I'm thinking, actually that's pretty up there. - Yep, definitely tongue.

- I also love an earlobe moment. And I'm gonna start for a nipple as well. - Yeah, it's really depends. Sometimes, depends when I'm at my cycle. - Yeah, okay.

- Sometimes I'm a, oh my God. - Stay late. - Don't touch me, I'm gonna throw up. - Yeah, yeah. - So it's also sensitive, right about it.

Sometimes I love it.

So, um, yeah, equal first tongue and earlobe, I think.

- Okay, that's hard. - Yeah, what's that? - Like a huge harmony. - Well, um, mine is actually really straightforward. - Well, actually it's not straightforward.

It's quite, it's too layered. So, physically, the inner thigh is my erogenous zone. - That's something about an inner thigh touch. - Mm, do you love it inner thigh? - Yeah, but when you were talking before about,

like having an orgasm from kissing, I've actually had, um, I've had an orgasm or a few simply from my brain space. - Yes, okay. - Yeah, so powerful.

- Yeah, because I'm, you know, for those who know me, I'm a very deep, feeler, very emotional, very vivid in my imagination and my thought process. - And that's why we love you. - Well, thank you so kind.

“Um, but I think I've got this ability to sort of,”

almost fantasize to a degree at which it can, without anything physical, actually, um, give me an orgasm. And so that's actually, so now my erogenous zone, as I've an in-thigh, is my mind.

- That is so cool. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that you're so powerful and that's a awesome. - It's actually so cool. - I'm kind of keen to tell you how it's well done.

- Oh, yeah. - I wonder if I could, too. - Mm. - Yeah, it's so cool. (upbeat music)

- So let's just circle back to kissing, Ellie. - Yeah, I think I'll just focus through some techniques and some types of kissing. - Okay, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, yeah, I do make a list of,

like, different types of kissing. - Yeah, 'cause obviously, as you mentioned before,

kissing is not always romantic.

- Correct. - Kissing is also platonic. And honestly, I kiss my friend all the time. - Love that. - And it's the best.

“A specific kind of kiss that me and my friends”

and specifically my housemate, Hannah, love you, Hannah. - Although, she's not this thing, she really can't listen to podcasts. It is the forehead kiss. - Oh, I just love it.

- I just love, it's so nice. We always just come up to each other, the forehead kiss, the forehead. - I do love a forehead. - Yeah, there's something really nurturing

about a forehead kiss, so true. - And yeah, so I guess this ties in with the origin of Spain. So I've got neck kissing, earlobe kissing, butterfly kiss. - Okay.

- Yes. - Or an eskimo kiss. - Okay, what is the butterfly kiss saying? - So my dad used to do this to me. I'll show you, if you can send.

- Yeah, I can say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I saw it. - It's on your cheek, yeah. - Okay. - Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Oh, glasses, okay, okay, okay, okay. - Just please go look really weird. - So you've got a butterfly kiss. - Sorry, beautiful. - You've got your lashes on the cheek.

(laughing) - I can't have sex, I can't believe you have a butterfly kiss before. - It's cute, hey? - That's gorgeous. - I like that sensation.

- Yeah. - Lovely. - So for those things along at home and maybe you don't know. I guess you can do it anyway, but usually it's likely on the cheek. It's a kiss with your eyelashes.

So you sort of blink up and down and the cheek and the nose. - That was a love flasher, a love flasher, a love flasher. And then so obviously in terms of kisses on the lips, we've got a lot. - We've got the classic pack, which can also be platonic.

- Cheat kisses, cross-cultures, you know? - Mm-hmm. - Also gorgeous. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - The French kiss, you know, so they make out.

- Mm-hmm. - Really? - Mm-hmm. - Tung fucking. And then that was just one of my own, where I don't know,

- I mean, so French kissing use of tongue?

- Yes. - Yes. - You're saying that this is like exclusively tongue and no lip.

“- Yeah, I think it's a bit more aggressive and like,”

my mouth open, tongue is just... (laughing) - Sorry, I actually missed that. Could you just do that again? - Just do that again.

- I've been tongue-like. - I think I got it. - Yeah, yeah, I got it. - Maybe?

- Yeah, yeah, cool, yeah.

- Yeah. - And then, so I don't really know the words for these, if they have a name. - I guess there's also things like, which I really love, lip tracing,

like with your tongue, tracing, tracing around the outside that's been tongue or even just, like, even just the lip to the finger. - Oh my gosh. - Oh my gosh.

- Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I love to get hold of it. I love, like, yeah, licking lips and smell and I'm licking. 'Cause I know some of the stories down by, do you love, like, saliva and like wetness and just like,

we're getting all in there.

“So I think it's also like a wet kiss, you know?”

It's just like, well, you do sort of really, isn't that's live or unlike, you know? Which is like, you know? - But people don't really bacteria. - That's it, yeah, that's it.

So the seductive kiss, which I guess is, I interpret as like, and I love, is like maybe just a little bit of like hovering and you're waiting for your breathing into your breathing. You're kind of touching, but you're not. Yeah, yeah. Oh, stuff. I'm also not opposed to a little little box. I'm going to say,

I don't enjoy that. I like that. Other kisses that I have, jawline kiss, stomach kisses, um hand kiss. Like a cute wrist, wrist as well. That's quite in a rod that's very nice. Yeah, it's quite. There's a lot of sensations in the wrist. I'm actually sitting in the inside of the wrist. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, um, blowing a kiss. Okay, very cute. And then, okay, this one, oh, and yeah, okay, so close mouth kiss, which yeah, I guess not necessarily a pack, you know, because there's closed mouth kissing that's more than a pack, which is also just so beautiful. It's actually just so nice.

You actually have to use your tongue. No, there's no rules. It's really romantic and it's also just a show of

“such, I don't know, love and affection for someone. So that's when I think we just like,”

I also associate tongues with passion more than anything, but maybe that's quite prescribed to my head, but I find there's something endearing about just close mouth. I agree. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I agree with you. Um, okay, I was also doing some research. Okay. And then there was also one called the lizard kiss, which I don't know. I think is just putting your tongue in out of it, which that's not what I'm making. I'm making, but I, okay, oh, I can imagine, and I'm not saying me because everyone likes

what they like, but I imagine what it's like on like every heterosexual reality TV show where I'm like, what is going on? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I don't know. Is that, is that? Is that normal? I don't know. It feels like rhythmic tongue use rather than like being like intuitive. Yeah, I guess I'm, yeah, I guess maybe the way I see like tongue kissing is I see the two tongues together a lot of the time rather than just one tongue going in. Do you know what I mean?

These tongues, honestly. Yeah. Anyway. Wow. Um, so yeah, that's a few types and techniques of kissing. Okay, stunning. Yeah. That was great. Yeah, I want to kiss now. That's all kiss. That's all kiss. Okay. We love kissing. We love kissing, crunch. What's next? What's next? Um, okay. What's next? Is my phone's about to die? Ah, as is my laptop. Okay. Do we need to go back out and see if the hot boy from henhouse studios is around and would he like to end us a chord and also show us his

sword? Oh, that was, I know. I know. I know. I'm sorry. No, I'm sorry. Sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's weak and weak and weak. Yeah, I'll send it away. Okay. Okay, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. We're doing so good. Okay, what's next? What's next? Okay, so. Ball play. Okay. Dislust. Please discuss. Let's do it. So, I guess,

first of all, I kind of want to touch on touch. I want to touch. Um, right now, right. I want to touch you.

Right now. Right now. Turn the camera's off. I want to touch. I guess on full play, but also on what sex is. Okay. Yeah. Because, sure. I mean, I guess for a lot of people for play is sex.

listening back to a few of our episodes. Um, it is kind of difficult, especially in a clinical setting.

“Sometimes like when we refer to sex, um, you know, sex is obviously not just PV penetration or”

not penetration at all. Painus and vagina. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's okay. Um, obviously sex can mean anything. Yeah. I know whatever whatever it means to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess before we get into for play, I guess I just want to touch on the fact that for many people for play, that is the sex. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, so like, for example, I guess, yeah, for like a lot of queer sex or all sex, that is the sex that's counter sex. Yeah. Yeah. Um, like for aphabes also for, so that's, um,

assigned to female at birth. Mm-hmm. And for a lot of gay men as well, um, so we can have, like, tops and bottoms in with gay men and we will obviously do a whole other episode on, on gay men's sex. But yeah, essentially they can be the top of the bottom of the giver or the receiver or, um, verse or reciprocal, but also both ways. That's it. Yeah. That's it. Mm-hmm. Also, um, there's, there can be what we call sides. Some people call sides. And that's where, um, gay men don't, um,

participate in, in anal at all. And it's just oral. So some gay men don't, don't, participate in anal, it's like oral. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I guess I just wanted to,

to clear that up first. Yeah. Oh, thank you. Sex is whatever it means to you. Yeah. That's really

cool. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I guess, and foreplay can mean so much as well. You know, foreplay is so, so, so important. Um, before I get into my preferences, foreplay, um, actually, I'm going to just circle back with it for a quick side bar on top and bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because, yeah. So, I mean, we use these terms in queer sex a lot top and bottom, you know, sometimes referring to sex. But also sometimes, like, referring to the relationship itself,

yeah, as in, like, one is the butch fan. And one is the, like, who's the man in this relationship, right? Which is kind of funny, right? Because it's like, as queer as we don't want to fit into that heteronal order of binary. So why are we doing it? Um, yeah. But obviously, people are proud

“tops and problems. That's fine. Um, but yeah, I guess it's also just important to remember that”

things are ever evolving and then you aren't flexible. They're evolving, you know, when you start. I know. I know. Oh, can we just try and mention it in every single episode? Well, we pretty much have. We have. Yeah. And the international, this is a joke. We actually do now. There's many international countries. That's much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is that recurring joke. Um, and thank you to our one listener in Galway Island. Also,

thank you so much. I don't know. You have it. Thank you, shout out. Thank you so much. I mean, sorry. This is nice. We give my beer. Please. Um, so yeah, I guess this, um, lots of different terms that you can use. So we use Tom bottom at some times. It's like, I, for example, I, I think I do prefer receiving. Yeah. I think that is my preferred. So technically, I think that I am a bottom, you know. Um, I do love giving head. I love giving head so much. And like we've spoken about

“as before, where I, I do like both. I like giving MSC. But if like I had to choose, I think I”

like to receive. Yeah. I would be more confident in fingering. I don't even just sort of think this out. Okay. Which is hilarious because I'm 32. No, it's just, like, I have my first kiss at 19. Yeah. Okay. I don't like it. Um, I think if I have more confidence in fingering. Um, and I think if I had 10 fingers, I would. You don't, though. I don't. I mean, I've got it on half. You do have to make it just fine. That's true. Yeah. And it's an important one.

It is. I don't want anything. I'm right hand in your dominant hand. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I thought about going lefty. I just know that the strength and the power won't be there. But I, maybe I should

give it a go. Always. So I think that does throw me off a bit in terms of just, um, logistically.

Yeah. Um, but yeah, I, I, I figured out that I think I prefer to be the follower. So like, in terms of a, like, I don't know, I'm going a bit off topic here, but like, if there's a leader or a follower. And this is a really top or bottom. So what you're saying is just to like help me understand, obviously, being a heterosexual woman in the context of top and bottom, you're also talking about relationship dynamics, the same time. Is that kind of what you're throwing to or like sexual

dynamics. I'm talking to just sexual dynamics. So sexual dynamics in terms of top and bottom is not necessarily isolated to gay men who top and bottom, which we commonly kind of refer to in verse, but you're also talking about the dynamic within queer sexual encounters. Absolutely. And

Yeah. We just don't use them. So that's why I'm bringing in. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Different terms,

like, leaving or following. Yeah. Great. You know, so it's a similar piece. Yeah. Yeah. Topping on bottom, bottoming is not just purely the active sex. Okay. You know, I guess I'm trying to explain. It's like, um, also maybe sometimes it can be the role that you take on through sex, you know, where it's the one that's a leader once a follower. Like a dominant citizen in the way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. I think I've recognized that I do prefer to follow

“rather than lead. Okay. I think like, um, I guess life is busy and we do a lot. And I feel like we”

take on a lot and having a more of an anxious rain and I guess our jobs are stressful, I'm where often making lots of decisions and taking care of people. I think in the bedroom, I just want to, I don't, not just tell me what to do. You want to be looked after? Yeah. I want to be and that's bad. That's so bad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. Yeah. And before we move on, I guess like, I was doing also a bit of research about this and I found this like quick self-assess

guide about, um, you know, our roles in sex. And um, I thought I could ask you if you're comfortable. Yeah. Okay. Come on. It's just like, and if I don't understand the terminology,

can you clarify first? Okay. Go. Yeah. Okay. It's, and obviously once again,

this is nuanced. This changes. This isn't like a, you know, it's just kind of what your first drawn to first that feels like you prefer or resonate with. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to give you three words and you can just decide which one you feel like you prefer in a sexual contact. So number one, um, giving, receiving or trading. What's trading? Sorry. Both. Oh, okay. Okay. Um, receiving. Lovely. And I'm the same. Should we get married now? Yeah.

Or we could get married later. Yeah. Either it's fine. Either it's fine. Yeah. We've got time. Nothing but time. So much. Number two. Because this can also, um, top and bottom can also, um, relate

to sex positions. Yes. Yes. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Being on top. So this is the next one.

Mm-hmm. Being on top, being on bottom or changing. Changing. Be too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Painting. Yeah. We should get that. Yeah. We should. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next one. Leading following or deciding together, deciding to together. That's not. Yes. That's the good one. Because I, like, I was reflecting what you were saying about the dynamics and like wanting to be looked after. And I certainly think that

“that's something I love. But I think with the right person, I also like to lead. I do believe. Yeah.”

Yeah. It's really great. Yeah. My, as I said before, my instinct goes for following. Yeah. Yeah. But I totally agree with you. Like, there's times where I, like, if I'm feeling safe, if I'm feeling close, I would dumb. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, I would just fucking dumb. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Mm-hmm. Okay. So this is similar vein. They were kind of similar. Next one. So dominant, submissive or versatile.

That's a tie. That course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Once again, I think still primary sobbed. Yeah. But love verse. Yeah. Yeah. I'm probably the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you last one. So obey, resist or neither. Um, probably obey. Same. Five or five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. That's, thank you. I've seen joy that exercise. Yeah. Let's put that in the show notes. Yeah. That's a good idea. I actually got this off

um, a website that I love, um, shrimp teeth. Yeah. I'll put that in the show notes. They have all these logs, all these online sources, all these online courses, as a coach. Okay. Love them. So thanks for doing that. That's okay. Lovely. I'll circle back just to foreplay in general. Yeah.

“But I think this is a really important thing that you've, um, like roles that you've mentioned,”

form part of foreplay. This is how you're connecting it, right? Like how we feel aroused or safe or, um, vulnerable, uh, in the roles that we feel the most comfortable in. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great, it's a great, yeah. It's a great way to start it. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Well done. Well done. Um, so I guess like technically foreplay is like the sexual acts leading to intercourse. Okay. Also it can be so much more than, um, foreplay can like,

literally be, this conversation, like a conversation. Mm-hmm. It can be a conversation. It can be a text message. You can be a cheeky, no dream. Hey, you know, foreplay can be like setting up the room, like for sex. Yeah. Like this. So much involved, um, just sexual acts. And I guess that's where I wanted to touch on. The other thing I kind of wanted to touch on as well is there is a

well. Thank you so much. Yeah. Um, so that is obviously in your biological aspect with due to

hormone to release during foreplay. Yeah. Okay. And I guess I, I wanted to touch. Oh, sorry. There are not the words. I wanted to address highlights. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, stimulate. Okay. Well, that's kind of what we've got to tell you. Yeah. Okay. I wanted to address as well, like especially for aphabes for a scientific mouth, both are women just because it takes, it does take us longer. It does. It just does. It does take us like that to be ready for sex to

warm up us to get lubricated for us to get enguaged for us to be ready to receive and ready to

participate. Correct. It does take longer and it assigns a little bit of then by a lot of

mouse. Yeah. It just does. It does. It's just a show that a lot of aphabes or women are having a lot less orgasms than men because they don't understand that foreplay is part of it and they think they're saying wrong with them, but they're not having orgasms from just penetrative sex. Yeah.

“Okay. And yeah, I think that's a misconception that penetration is the only way to get an orgasm”

and if you don't achieve an orgasm through penetration, there's something wrong with you. That's actually not true, it's not true. So for men or people assigned male at birth, roughly five to eight minutes on average to reach orgasm for women or aphabs for people assigned female at birth, 13 to 45 minutes. Wow. 55 minutes. Okay. Wow. That's a journey to high. That's a huge gap. Okay. That's crazy. Yeah. So extended foreplay and non-genital stimulation

can help bridge that gap. Okay. As many women or aphabs need 20 minutes or more of stimulation to reach orgasm in the men. Okay. And that is like the physical stimulation that we mentioned before in terms of our rogenous sounds, but who's so mental and emotional? Exactly. That's the key. That's okay. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Just for like we can just be like ready to go. Let's go. Yeah. Exactly. There's things we need to be. Yeah. So foreplay it begins and continues outside of

the bedroom. And statistics showed that more pleasure is achieved when there is a greater build-up of sexual or arousal and as well. The anticipation makes sense. True. Yeah. Absolutely. So yeah, I guess I've just got a little list of things that can be foreplay. Yeah. And then I did write my own preferences. Okay. Great. Yeah. So what I mentioned before like preparing the room for sex sending a message or a node slowing down in the moment anticipation. Okay. Kissing. Best foreplay ever.

“Cuddling, sensual touching, stroking, massage. I explain that you should just give me these like”

full body massage. Like never intending to end in sex. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just a fucking

best. I know. Incorporating games and things like that. Also really fun. Yeah. Communicating, communicating, communicating. And aftercare. Yeah. I know foreplay we kind of think before. But like aftercare's also wrapped up in all of this. Yeah, of course it because it like propels it forward. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like the game seeing the communication is really big for me. I'm as we know much less physical and a lot more emotional and mental. So a lot of my

foreplay involves conversation. For me it's like the interlock. We could be, so like deep. But like we could like we could like we could like exchange a poem or like read something together and that would just like send me. I just that that stuff really gets me. I don't need to necessarily have anything physical. But like connecting on an intellectual level is enough for play for me. I guess to to finalize. Like I am such a slut for dry

“hopping. Okay. I love jumping. Okay. Okay. Whatever, just just just like hopping. I think I just,”

I love it. I live for it. It's the best. Just can't like take me back to succeed when we're just like fully close. Joe, ready one each other. Yeah. Love. Also just like lazily watching something and then just lazily just like playing with each other. Yeah. God. God. Yeah. Um,

okay. Yeah. Okay. Love that. Very different. But like yeah. That's good though. That just demonstrates that

we have very different ways of. Yeah. I guess I didn't delve into the next bit. Yeah. Because in order to get to that stage. Yeah. We need chemistry. Okay. So let's talk about that. So I want to talk about chemistry. Go go go go go go. I'm thinking a lot about this. Um, as you love science. That's true. Um, but no, I guess I've been thinking a lot about chemistry and what that means exactly.

“So obviously chemistry is a form of science. But in this context, I think I feel like people have”

traditionally or commonly associated chemistry with like the spark or the initial kind of like, you know, you catch eyes with someone, you feel the butterflies feel a bit maybe down there,

your juices are gone. You know, I just feel like you're close. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, oh, okay.

That's like you're like, oh, chemistry. Like, um, maybe like sexual attraction or compatibility. And I think we often associate that. I think in movies, we talk a lot about that. We talk a lot about characters having chemistry, that initial attraction. Right. And so I was like, oh, that initial kind of attraction I have with someone must be chemistry. But what I've kind of realized over time is that chemistry is less about the initial like physical attraction and the

responses that come with it. It's more about achievement with the other person. Right. It's a great word. I need to add that to my good words. It's just remind me. Um, okay. So it's more about achievement with the other person and sort of reflecting on our conversation about sexual confidence. I have to be, I have to feel safe with that person to be attuned with them. Right. And then

“this all, I think this is part of my journey that moving forward is about safety, emotional safety. Right.”

And slaying it. Yeah. And so I think, I think attraction is short lived. But chemistry is

sustainable. Okay. So when you have chemistry with someone and it's basically the ability to

see the other person for who they are and accept them wholeheartedly and be able to sort of connect or like be enthroned with them in a way that that words can't describe. Right. There's no words to describe that, um, connection or that understanding with that other person. That is chemistry. Right. I mean, because when you have an understanding of the other person, that is sustainable, because it doesn't matter what happens moving forward, that chemistry will continue forever. I think.

So I think chemistry exists with this natural inbuilt achievement with someone being able to see someone for who they are and not kind of curating yourself to fit their narrative. And that might develop into love. And then that love for that person on going is a choice. So make sense. It does. It does. And like, I mean, obviously in a romantic sense, right, as well. But it also mean in terms of friendships, right. We have chemistry with our friend and then we,

we initially hit it off, then we realize they're kind of in line with who we are, but we cannot understand them. And then we love them. And then we choose to grow with them. Right.

“And so, yeah, everything about this. Because like, yeah. And I think like, you know, I've been thinking”

about my long-term relationships and thinking like the initial spark might have been there. But in hindsight, the longevity of the chemistry didn't exist because neither of us were able to see each other for who we were. And we tried, right. We tried to kind of, you know, get to those points that we, you know, we had love for each other, but that initial chemistry, that understanding of that person on a really deep level didn't exist. And so it's not sustainable. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's when I think that love isn't enough. Yeah. Does that make sense? So you can love somebody. You can love somebody. But if you're not like, I'm picking out what you're putting down without really, well, like, I can sense this thing about you. That is chemistry in my mind. Okay. Yeah. What you're saying, absolutely. Yeah. I don't think I ever, like, would have labelled at chemistry. Yeah. I guess in my brain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I absolutely understand what you're

saying. And I find it so interesting when you say, like, I find it interesting because I feel like I have the ability to very easy look at anyone and and see them and love them. Yeah. But making sure that I don't morph myself into what I think they need of me has been my issue.

genuine chemistry? That's the thing, like, because I don't know. I sometimes think about connections

“and come down to compatibility as well, right? Like compatibility, I think is inexplicably linked with”

chemistry. Are you describing chemistry or are you describing a desire to please the other person because you love them? I guess I would see, like, that kind of, what you're talking about, that kind of, like, soul bonding. Yeah. Kind of, like, I've that deep knowing of each other. Yeah. I guess yeah, in my mind, I wouldn't have labeled its chemistry. Yeah, it's totally valid. And then you brought up, like, the topic of chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So go. Yeah. I'll let you crawl. I don't know how my work, but let's do a cool walk chemistry is not like.

That's well, that was fucking gorgeous. I loved every second of it. I think that you're just been a form perfect. And I just love your heart. I love your soul. Oh my God. That's like that that you exist at the same time

as me. And that's the thing we've ever done. Okay. Wow. Okay. That's amazing. I mean, I should be so lucky to have

access to your soul in your heart. Oh, don't that's so, thank you so much. It's true. It's true. Oh, that's lucky. Thank you. That's beautiful. And you give me lots to think about. Yes. Yeah. But we want to have this conversation. Yes. I guess I definitely sort of was thinking more sexual chemistry. Yeah. When I was thinking about chemistry is a topic for this for this episode, but obviously what I had prepared is like not dissimilar to you. What you just said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like when if you actually look up the

definition of like sexual chemistry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is like immediate physical attraction. Yeah. Yeah. Like immediate physical attraction to someone. Which for me, like I do have like physical

attraction, but I I never look at someone. I'm like, oh my God, I must have you right now. I need

to rip your clothes off. When I see someone that's I think is beautiful or attractive. I'm

“okay. Yeah. Like you're beautiful. You must be protected at all costs. I wish I allowed”

touch you the tempo. Well, I don't know. I don't get that like I can appreciate their beauty. I'm not like I must take you to bed. It's how I feel about you. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. They protect you. They protect you at all costs. Oh, let's protect you. Yeah. For me, I guess that's where we now go into other forms of chemistry, right? So like what intimacy? Like like emotional connection intimacy, which involves like physical mental and emotional closeness. Like if you

make me laugh, yeah, I'm there. Yes. If there's good chat, if there's good banter, if you make me laugh, then I want to rip your clothes off. Yeah. So I don't get that easily. Look at I can look at some back hot. Yeah. Okay. I don't feel that if any like downstairs. In the downstairs. Yeah. I'm not like same. Yeah. Yeah. I can appreciate like physical beauty or that initial attraction, but it's not necessarily like stimulating a loins. What am I saying? But you loved it. You know what I mean?

I loved it. So yeah, I guess that's how I feel. Like I need I similar to you. Some sort of emotional connection intimacy, but similar to you. I find that really easily, really quickly with lots of people. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. So it allows me to have these casual encounters. And I have ones that aren't as as as enriching them for feeling. And I have friends who are Demi sexual who comment on how jealous they are. And yeah. And then I guess and on your comment

on love being a choice. I do agree. I think I think it's both. Yeah. Is love a feeling. Is love

“chemistry. Is it a choice? I think it's both. Yeah. In terms of longevity. Yeah. You have to choose.”

Yeah. I just got to choose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I'm at more love in terms of like so you can see somebody's, you know, to that depth. And you think, okay, there's a part of them that I'm going to need to show up for to keep them safe. You can be aware of that element of safety, whether that's sexually or emotionally. And then if you love that person, you need to keep showing up in that way. Okay. That's kind of what I mean by choice. You can't help you fall in love with.

I don't know. I don't mean that at all. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean in terms of like long-term relationships, obviously things wax and wine. Yeah. Absolutely. Often we will find that maybe that's that sexual chemistry, that's spark or whatever you call it, does maybe drop off over time. Yeah. It's an active choice to stay in that relationship and try to keep it going. Yeah. Yeah.

That doesn't always work out. As you said, like, we, we growing, sometimes we grow together,

and sometimes we don't. Well, we're going to get kicked out of this point. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We should start the talk for a second. This has been actually, God, that's going to be

Okay. I've loved this. I love you. I love you. I love you. And I hope, we love all the

viewers that we hope you enjoyed it too. We hope you enjoyed it. And we hope that, like,

“you know, key part of these conversations is, yep, we're healthcare professionals. Yes,”

we wear professional hats, but we're also people too, just navigating this. And, you know,

hopefully listening to us, we can encourage you to have these conversations with your friends as well.

“Yeah. It's a whole point. She's our experiences, but yeah. We'd love to hear you all.”

Yeah. We would love please give us feedback. I love this girl. Yeah. We will accept

voice notes as I've said. And then we can play them on that screen. Oh, I've always said,

“no, give us a voice note. We can play it on the bottom one. Please, please. Um, um. Okay.”

Okay. All right. I could feel like we're floating. We're floating. We're going to go see next we. Okay. From. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. For our final episode of the season. Yeah. All right. Okay. Love you all. Love you. Thanks for listening. Bye. Special thanks goes to the Henhouse recording studios for hosting our recording sessions. Our production team, Dana and Louisa and my good friend, Pary, South Safari for our audio.