He Got Thrown Out of School, Went to Clown School, and Ended Up at Harvard Medical School | Ep 317 with John Glaser

So John Glasser, I was reading about your story and I was fascinated and it kind of

“reminded me of some things that happened in my life and that's why I wanted to get you on”

here because I wanted to understand what it's like for you, when you were growing up, the fact that you went to clown school, like I don't know if I've ever talked to anyone, besides a clown, if you know how it was clown school and how you leveraged that in life. But let's go all the way back to when you're in grade school, okay? And something happened to you that I imagine you'd say really changed your life. What was that like?

Well, it's a fair question. I mean, I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and my father

was consultant, so he spent a couple summers in Hawaii while he did work and he spent my first freshman

year in the British boarding school, you know, going to it because he was stationed in the Duosseldorf, etc. So we did some movement around even though based in the Bay Area. My mother was very bright, just my father was too, but very eclectic and unorthodox. And she encouraged us, so I did trail crew during the summer and her variety of other things like that. So it learned and also went to school with a Jesuit high school and the Jesuits were

remarkable. They taught you to challenge, challenge the church, challenge the, you know, the Bible, challenge, think about a challenge. And so I challenged stuff. So it came up with this, you know, maybe not a quite a rebel, but it's certainly quite willing to be unorthodox, you know, along the way. And that led to, you know, I'm sure some of the things we'll talk about hitchhiking all over Kingdom Come, getting tossed out of high school, going to classical, etc. But the willingness

to be unorthodox and to try things that are not conventional, I guess, is not really risky. I mean, I did try to claim Mount Everest. But nonetheless, things that are a little bit different. Hey, I liked it. It seems like the people that really change the world are the unconventional thinkers. You can't think inside a box and make a big change. I dropped out of college.

“No, I didn't. What you did, I think is even more fascinating. Tell me about that.”

Well, I, it was, three buddies wrote an underground newspaper, you know, called the Bellarmant Free Press. It was Cardinal Robert Bellarmant, the school was named after. We each wrote a column and it was about drinking beer and taking advantage of 16-year-old girls. And we knew all of that drinking beer and had only dreams of girls. You know, that was just, that's something we were not familiar with at all. And we made the mistake of publishing it on the afternoon of Paris night.

That's so mom and dad came down to visit the priest, pick up a copy of this thing, and in the roof blew off. Oh, my goodness gracious. You know, it's ranchy stuff. What's going on here? So the fall they're morning, we were in front of a tribunal of Jesuits. You know, one by each, my three buddies, did the Maya Cooper, which, you know, Latin for, I'm sorry. And I was the last one in. And I got in there and there's a little

stage nine Jesuits, the principal in the middle and the principal said, Mr. Glasser.

“Are you aware that Dam is done to the school and how this is countered?”

Everything we're trying to teach you. Fine of Sandy Catholic young man. And I got mad. And I said, I'm not sorry at all. As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic Church is a criminal organization. That's it. For thousands of years, you've suppressed science conducted unjust wars. And I think, frankly, the position on birth control is killing

millions of women and children. And I was proud of what I had done. And I hoped it would be the first

in a long series of criminal activity on my part and keeping with the tradition of a Catholic church. And then I just got, I had my throat slit as a result of that. So I got, I got mad at them. I pushed it probably a little too far, a little too hard. And there you go. I wound up in the middle of my junior year at a high school and went off to college because I didn't really want to go to a different high school for my last year. I mean, wow, like you, you stood your ground. I can tell

that you, you stood your ground. I mean, I don't think most people at that age would have said the things you said in that environment. Like your friends at that time, they told them what they wanted to hear so they could continue. I mean, you break, you break them old. So then you go to clown school. What the heck is clown school like? Well, I think from there, I went, I went to Duke because you know, my freshman year is a British board of school. I got enough credits to

get out of it. And so I went to Duke. And again, I wanted to go as far away from California's possible. So obviously, North Carolina is pretty far away. And we'll get to the clown school, but there's some intervening stuff there. So I was a math major. I really like math. It's also where I met my now wife. I've been together for 51 years. You know, she were an hour in the same dorm. But anyway, I got, you know, at the end of my senior year, everybody seems so certain about

their lives. You know, I'm going to be medical school or law school or business, whatever it is. I didn't know. So I took the GREs, the GMAT, the LSAT, the NCAD, the actual, every exam I could

think of because if you're, I'll never be this smart again. And they're good for five years. And I

got out of college. And I went to work at Pizza Hut. And then after a couple of weeks of that, I went, well, that's kind of cool. And then I went to work in Alaska, in a salmon canry and that's our native American village called South McNack. And in August, I had, you know, six

banks to Alaska to the Panama Canal through North Carolina, took me six months, you know,

along the way. It finally got to Panama and said, I'm tired of hitchhiking. And I'm Mrs. Woman,

who know I'm very, too. I'm going to go back to Carolina, be with her. And while messing around, looking for a job, I said, I'll go to classical. You know, I'll learn how to be a client. I still have my makeup in the attic. I can still do a passable juggle. I have a couple stupid cubscotroop, you know, tricks to do, etc. But it was largely because it seemed like something to do. It might be kind of interesting. For some reason, I can help a think of forest gum. I don't know why. We run to

guys. It is very interesting, like hitchhiking was a thing at some point. It's really hard to imagine, like hitchhiking was an actual way that people got around because obviously for many years, I mean, still, you know, it's illegal and people don't do it. But there was like the dangers, I think of hitchhiking. What was it like back then? I mean, Alaska to Panama? I can't even imagine that. Well, I mean, there's a route. You can go from Anchorage up to what they call Tokyo Junction,

catch the Alcan, Alaska can, you know, fan it a highway down the Seattle. And from there, you hitchhiking out to Spokane, drop down the Denver take, I 80 or I 70 back to North Carolina, I 40 back to California and then down the Pan American highway until you get to canal and then

“the road stops, etc. But you know, you have to use smart even then. There were some scary people”

and some scary times. So what I would generally do is hitchhike out of truck stops. And I basically go up to someone filling their tank and there would be one of three scenarios. See, they're mom dad and the kids. And basically, I'm John Glaster. I'm a Duke student. I just had a summer job. I'm heading back east to visit my girlfriend. I'm a clean cut all America. And so, you know, they either bought that or they did it. Or it was a guy with a gun rack and a flag and basically,

I'm, you know, bonds around between jobs. Just did some work up in Alaska. I hadn't seen some other work. I'm basically a blue collar working guy. And so, yeah, yeah, yeah, I did my kind of guy. And the third was, you know, a bunch of guys who long hair and a micro bus and say, hey, man, got any weed. I got some money for some weekends. You know, I kind of stuff here. And that didn't always work. And the truckers wouldn't touch it because there's a liability issue. But, you know,

first of all, never hitch, I'll give you some advice. Never hitchhike at night,

this is because the wacko element is up. Never hitchhike within 30 miles of a big city because you want long rides. You want 400 mile rides. Not 10 miles down the road. Plus, the wacko element is higher as you get closer to the city. So, out of the truck stops during the day and you're looking for the big, several hundred mile rides in sooner or later you'll get there. That's, I mean, soon they'll be robotics, that, you know, robot cars that will just drive this for very cheap. So,

we won't have to even think about hitchhiking. But I did a week on the Appalachian Trail when I was around the same age. And it really taught me a lot of different things. There's a very unique experience. I wish I could, I could only last a week. I could go. But, you know, at some point, I did think like, I should have kept going to finish. Would did you learn something about yourself

“or just about life and general while you were doing this? Well, I think one of the things I learned”

is at the time I was really anxious that everybody else, my colleagues were off to careers and I was just floundering. And what I learned is, it doesn't really matter. I mean, there are lots of ways to make a great life and accomplish a lot, but the fact that you're not traditional. It's okay. But I learned that. The other is you get some really cool rides with some really cool people. And, you know, they may not, they may have been farmers or mechanics or hairdressers,

etc. But they were smart. They were sophisticated worldviews. Remember, one particular ride I got was going from Seattle to Spokane. It's about 400 miles. And I got to ride with two women who's husbands were truck drivers who drove back and forth Seattle to Spokane. That was the route. And they would drive the same route and on the CB radio, chatted up with all the truckers, you know, jokes and gossip and all that stuff. And I thought, this is really fun. You know,

they're really cool people, although they're about as innocuous as hell. So you'll learn that there are many people who may not be glamorous, who may not be Nobel laureates, but they're just

“really neat, thoughtful people. That's what you'll learn. The other is in Central America.”

I had never seen poverty like that. So, wow, you know, this is, you know, there's, you know,

you come from up white middle-class suburban kid. You're not really seeing people who are, you know, basically on the edge of starving, if not several. So I experienced poverty. Frankly, I'm less than an in Panama. But the time there's great tension between the US and Panama over the canal. And I had never experienced prejudice because I was a gringo. And I had never been on the receiving end of hatred because of the color of my skin and where I was from. And wow,

I didn't like that at all. And I can imagine people who, that's their daily reality. Wow. I mean, you know, it's something I always tell people is travel and experience the people. Like, I don't really travel. And I don't, I don't go to museums necessarily anymore. I've been to so many museums and churches. And I've seen so many things that feels the same. But what I like

see how they live. Because for me, that that's been just absolutely changing in my life. It sounds like for you this thing. Absolutely. You know, your, your different ways is hard to describe, but you are because of all those experiences. So you obviously, it's very interesting. Because you, obviously, are very intelligent. I mean, you went to Duke, which is an incredibly challenging school I need to get into. You are now teaching at Harvard, one of the hardest, you know,

schools in the world, one of the most prestigious, if not maybe the most prestigious school in the world, everyone in the world knows about Harvard. So, but you've also thought very differently. Do you, did you see throughout time how education and thinking outside the box? Did those go

“hand in hand or have things changed? Were now schools are more open to it? Well, I think most”

school, particularly when you get to university, you know, college and, you know, graduate school. If you say, I want to do the following, and it's not typical. They usually can accommodate that. So I want to put together majors. They have, they're used to people want to be econ majors and chemistry, but they're pretty accommodating. They just want to make sure you thought about it, et cetera, and then go off and do these things. So I think there is a willingness to do that.

When I was in graduate school, I went to the University of Minnesota. I got a PhD in, you know, medical informatics, and all my buddies were computer science. But I was a sociologist, because I was interested. I thought that actually the hard part of getting this technology to you be used by doctors and nurses was not the technology, but was managing people and managing change and things like that. And so I was going to study that very unusual for someone in that

program to be a sociologist, but they were willing to accommodate that. They said it makes sense. And if you were willing to, you know, grind your way through it. I produced this monster of dissertation, 467 pages, which was just this moose of a thing like that. But anyway, that was,

“you know, I do think in the colleges, if you want to try something different, they're open to it.”

Just as long as it's thoughtful. Yeah, you know, those, those, it's, it's interesting how people like, I, you know, if I want to be successful, I need to get a computer science degree,

where like my wife, she has a psychology degree. She never was anything in, she was an

a psychologist or never went on to be a psychiatrist, but she's used that in sales, for example, or management of leadership, understanding people, which I think there needs to be a big push now. I mean, we, like, computer science might be the worst degree that you get. I mean, it might be replaced by AI tomorrow. It almost seems like people going back for these like liberal arts type degrees or anthropology or like you sociology. Like these might be very useful for

understanding how to navigate people. Yeah, and I think there's not only book learned, you can get in those courses that teach you that more so than, you know, taking a course in differential equations, for example. It's also life experiences, it's the way you were taught. It's just, it by your parents and also the experiences you have, you know, I have three grown daughters. In high school, they were all on teams, you know, soccer and lacrosse teams. You know,

they're, they're, they're okay athletes, they're not great at it. But the point is they were on teams and teams teach you something, you know, how to get along with others, how to work together, how to handle disputes, etc. So, so series of experiences of dealing with other human beings

“and how to work together and work well at times you turn into a leader, but not always. So I think”

that that kind of thing is absolutely incredible in terms of making sure the, or giving you the ability

to thrive. I like to talk to professors. My dad was a professor. He just retired. I think he was said when I dropped out of college, although I did go back many years later and graduate because my then girlfriend said, I will not marry you unless you have a college student or your golden or your, which I said because I really didn't, I wanted to just have a Lamborghini that said no degree. That was my goal in life, right? I wanted to prove that I didn't really want to have

a Lamborghini, but I wanted to prove that you didn't need to have a degree to be successful. But I did have to go back and I think that was a great day for my father. I think he was happy. So we we look at, like you said you've been, you made your wife over 50 years ago or you've been married

for 50 years, right? No, well, 51 years ago was the first time I colder I loved her. Amazing. Okay,

so 51 years ago, you said I love you. I mean, people aren't even together for five years. I don't even, there's so many people I know that don't even have like a relationship at all and like and they're, they're already in their like 40s and they're struggling. So what, what did you do or what helped you to balance this and then you had three daughters, but then also a high level executive career? Well, I think, you know, there's a separate question that I'm should people

talk about, you know, why do, what is love? And what makes durable love? You know, we're very long-curved at times through some times that are not always easy. Where you're changing a lot, Godly, we met when she was 18 and I was 19. There's, that's a lot of changes still going to

I do think, you know, everybody wants to have it all. They want to be good parent. They want to have

“a good spouse. They want to serve their community. They want to grow themselves. They want to”

job, whatever, whatever, whatever. They want to do it all. And it's not possible to do it all. You know, not as well as you would like. There are trade-offs along the way. So it's this constant, sort of low-grade anxiety and I had the right balance. I'm going to miss a kid's soccer game because of a conference or a tournament. Is that the right thing to do? And so, you know, you try as best you can, the balance knowing is highly imperfect. And you will do it again. I do think what you can

do and should do is a conversation with the principals, your spouse, and your kids' look.

I'm trying as hard as I can to balance out stuff. I won't always get it right, okay?

But I don't want you for a moment to think that that's because I don't love you. I love you dearly. It's just that I will be a human being and I will try. And if you think I've got of imbalance, you let me know. So, you know, you try hard. You bring them in as part of the solution and as part of the balancing act. And you asked for honesty back about whether, you know, my wife, remember one time when I was driving like she said, I get lonely when you're not here. That's

all she had to say. And I said, God damn it. You know, it was too much. You know, I've skewed to the right too much. I need to get back to the basics. So, would you say then that communication might be the

“single most important thing? Yeah, I think there's a, you know, if, you know, it sounds like you,”

you sure you have your own exposure of this communication and being very candid about this. You know, you know, there are certain things your spouse will do that irritate the hell out of you. And at some point, there's no point saying it over and over again. It drives me nuts and you do. Okay, leave it alone. Get on with it, et cetera. So, communication and I think the other is neutral respect. I respect you, what you do and how you go about that. And the other is the willingness to

give it. And to say, I know it's important to you. So, we will go do this less important to me. You know, picking a word you go for vacation. And you might say, I want to go this country. She says, I don't want to go that kind of, I don't want to go another. Okay, you know, whatever you know what I'm saying, here's a given take that goes with the communication and goes with the high respect. I feel like I, um, I kind of really appreciate that because I feel like I many times go with the flow.

And it's not because I don't have my own opinions. It's because I don't really care so much to have an opinion because I know she's going to choose something like we like the same things. So, I'm like, she wants to go visit here. I'm great with that because I can only make some of the decisions in my mind. I don't even like to make decisions to be honest. So, I'm like, I would rather someone else make that decision than me making that decision. But I,

I really enjoyed what you said. Now, you have, you've written eight books. I don't know why the, I wrote one book over here. I don't even want to, why would someone even want to write another book? It must have been that important to you. Well, I, I prefer, I like writing. I mean, I just enjoy the act of writing.

“So, I think if you don't like it or it's kind of a grind then, you know, you're not going to do”

a lot of it or if you did want you to never again, that was too terrible. So, I wrote a textbook with

two colleagues because I thought there was a generation of leaders of these organizations that just doesn't really know how to do this technology well. So, we actually, it's the most widely used textbook on the topic in the world and has been for many years. So, that was great because I just, there is a need for it. There is one book I wrote, which is I used to write college for various trade press. I had, you know, if I had 16 articles in Harvard Business Review over the years.

So, I just pull them all together. So, this is this sort of compendium of writing of them. We did a book on AI and in book on strategy. The four non-professional, one was this 101 questions, which is the kid and I'll tell you about the others. I mentioned, you know, I've written a letter to my family every week for 35 years and what I did is I took a five-year block of letters when the kids were little. So, there's six, seven, eight years old and I pulled out the parts that dealt with them.

And I created a book called The Father's Colage and I said, "This is what your father remembers. This is camping trips. This is science projects, et cetera." And it's kind of a written photo album. And I said, "This is my present to you, my memories of you." And I published it. And then five years later, I took another five-year block and did the same thing all over you. And then I actually, you know, you may, I don't know if you have kids or not, we used to do bedtime stories.

And Elizabeth adventures. And we've made up a story and I wrote them all down and published a book called The Elizabeth Adventures of all these things. And I said, "This is the stories we used to tell." And then the most recent one is 101 questions, is eight sending questions. And I write an answer. And so far, we took a 101 in one book. I'm not up to 180. And this is, they run the gamut from, what's the scariest time in your life? You know, for a question. You know, but on the other foot side

is what were your favorite cartoons growing up. So anyway, there is, there is books, partly, and because I like writing, partly because I feel like the field needed it. And that could be right or wrong. And partly because, with my children, and my spouse did agree, I want to know, this is your father. And this is what he believes. And this is what he remembers about you as a little kid. I need that book.

Because I'm always looking for really unique questions. I like that what scares you the most,

chief information officer at the Brigham and Women's Hospital, we had one day where the systems went down. And they were down for a very long period of time. And I was getting scared because somebody was going to get hurt. You know, Dr. or nurse was going to make him a stay because it couldn't get a test result. I could do this. And someone was going to get hurt or die.

And remember, talking to the technical wizards. You always got these technical ninja wizards,

you know, who will make this thing sing. And I remember growing into the computer with Bob, who's our ninja warrior wizards. And Bob, what's going on? We know it's wrong. He said, "No, we don't." And you could feel your intestines, the size of a golf ball. Because they could fix it in one second, or maybe not at all. I said, "Oh my God." And here's my chief smart guy. He didn't know what's going on. I didn't know what's happening here. And I remember being scared

at that particular time that, and I don't, I'm not smart enough. I don't know enough to give many real advice. I'd tell you what I did to, you know, I said, Bob, tell you what. How about if I go get a priest and we'll do an exercise. And he looked at me, you know, the sort of stare.

“And I think he's trying to think of one of two things. Get him out of here. You know, he, I got”

worked it. I got this moron who's talking about an exercise. Or what's the hell? We've run out of

other options. We'll get a little holy water and incense down here and see what we can do. Make the whole thing work. But that was the scariest time I liked because I thought we were going to hurt somebody. And maybe even kill somebody. When you look back, was there, did you ever have a thought in your mind when you were younger? Like, I want to achieve this. And then what was the feeling if you achieved it? Or it doesn't even have to be when you were like a teenager or on your 20s.

It could have been two weeks ago. And night was there something there where you were like, I really want to achieve this. And if so, did you achieve it? Yeah. I mean, you know, I wanted to, you know, go to Duke. And I got into Duke. You know, I wanted to get a PhD got that. I wanted to get certain jobs along the way. You know, I was very active in professional societies in the digital health field. And I wanted, you know, created one. And I wanted it to thrive. And I did that.

“And I want, you know, it gives you an example. One of the questions, I think all people should”

ask themselves. Let's presume you've got five minutes left in your life. And you look back on your life. What do you want to say about your time here? And I said, I want to say five things, you know, when that time comes. Then I'm as madly in love with my wife, then is I am now that my children

will have lives as blessed as mine. They'll have their own paths but bless. The third is that I'm

a spirit of crushing poverty, pain, you know, races, etc. But if I'm not, then I deal with it with the courage. The fourth is that the people I work with will say that I inspire them, talk them, and let them well. And the fifth is that the industries and organizations I serve are better because I was here. I want that. I want to be able to say that when I'm done. And I probably, if I went in the next five minutes, I could probably say that. So along the way, there are things

that you accomplish. And you feel great about and there are big things and there are little things, you know, along the way. What I find is as cool as those are, the feeling is fleeting, you know, because you then move on to now what. I remember when they came out after I bite, it's hitting my PhD, and I didn't make you leave the room in the committee to base, they come out, they'll get with my advice, they'll congratulate Dr. Glass. In fact, it's not

enough. You know, four years of work, and I got it. And I thought, but I know different. I know taller, I know smarter, I know more athletic, you know. But I look on the same person as I was before.

“In some ways, it was sober to go off and do that. So anyway, I think there are, there are accomplishments”

are great. There are things that are great-term than that. I think I've heard this before from other people like athletes or somebody exit their company. I was just talking just so in this morning, they exited, but they didn't, it didn't feel like a void. The void was still, they were the same person and they were very depressed for many, many weeks, if not a month later, because they thought it would completely change, not the monetary gain, but just change everything in general and it

didn't, they were just the same person. So it seems like this is something that as humans, you think it's because we still have a, like, it's like technology has adapted much further than us. Like, our brain is still like a, was it Neanderthal brain or lizard brain or whatever? Like, do you think it's because like, we haven't really adapted, like our environment is adapting much further, or progressing much faster? Well, I think it may be fairly fundamental, which is, you know,

most people, when they wake up, if they're excited about the days, why are you excited about the day? Well, I really like working with my colleagues. I enjoy the work that I do, you know, I feel good about it. And I like the organization that I serve, it's the journey, as they say, that is the treasure, not the arrival. It is the everyday day and a day out. It feels really, really good here. So when you find people who retired and they walk away from the professional career,

it's, you know, it's the long walks. It's the craft they take. It's the involvement in the community stuff. It's the things that fill their day, that give their day meaning that are the things. It's not necessarily, if they get an award, that's great. You know, there's everybody likes that. colleague, it's your picture take and people clapping. That's terrific. But that's not the real,

If you believe that your goal is fame or wealth or whatever, you'll get there. I don't doubt that. But then you'll get there and if that's it, I'm the same as I was before. And to the green my life sucked, it still sucks. Even though I'm a wealthy, it's I'm wealthy as hell now. But I think it is more that we enjoy the journey. You know, for me, sitting on the couch next to my wife, that's the greatest. You know, not saying much of anything, just sitting there is the greatest.

“You know, say anyway, that's you get what I think get my point. Maybe technology or anybody”

think is very fundamental. It is the moment that is the treasure. Yeah. I travel quite a bit. And I have to say, when I am just sitting with my wife on the couch, watching Netflix, there's a lot of satisfaction there, just as if I'm like traveling somewhere. So yeah, I can, I can see that it's sometimes those moments are I'm like, I'm kind of happy that I'm just here

with you relaxing because it's just always a constant go-go-go. So John, I need to get your book.

I need to get a few of those books, but I need to get a question because I need the really, really thought provoking questions I need. And then I love the idea of the collage. I mean, the fact that you're executive in residence at Harvard, medical school, I mean, it's insane. Like, I want that is my goal one day is I just want to go to Harvard. My wife went to Harvard. I want to go to Harvard so I can get, I can get my sweatshirt there. And then I would love to

attend a class. That's my goal one day. I just thought of it, John. I want to sit in a class of MIT in Harvard just to see. You know what's the coolest part though? You know, we teach these class. Yeah, it's so great. You know, you've got the crimson, the laden, and all nine yards. But I sit in this class. I don't give you two examples. And so there are the students. One student, for example, is a physician from India. And she's got a project she's working on,

which is to reduce the teenage suicide rate in India. And she said, it's the highest of any country. It is a teenage suicide. It's a wow. You know, why is that? It's a well because usually the pressure on the Indian kid to be a doctor, a lawyer, or whatever, and the kid just wants to be a musician. And so, but the pressure is excruciating. So, she was going to go off and dedicate her life

“to reducing teenage suicide rates in India. Wow, that is cool. That's what makes Harvard special”

because people like you become students. Another one is a woman who is a scientist in China. Who's who has a set of works for a company that does medications for kids with very rare genetic disorders. And they can give that kid the therapy for one tenth of the cost in the US. And Jesus, I'm going to open up a business where the kid and the parents come to China to be treated because, you know, they can't afford it. It's not coming by. Sure, it's this is

million dollars. And so, it makes it special. Yes, the name is special. But those two people are

examples of the 75 people in this class. They said, wow, you guys are really cool. You know, and the world's going to be better. A lot better because of the work that you do. And for me to be part of that. And to help you do a better job, that's what makes it special. You know, that's it makes this place special. It can draw that. Draw that talent in. But, John, this is being great. So, if you want to get in touch with you, they want to look at the books. They want to, you

“follow along your journey, how can they do so? Well, I think a couple of things. One is there's”

the website for the books called Books by John Glasser. It's all one word. The other is you can find me on Facebook. I publish a, I put out a weekly post and Facebook, which is this very series of vignettes or whatever from writing. So, you know, come on in and be my friend on Facebook. So, and you can find these books on Amazon too. Anyway, I look forward to if they want to. People be part of the broader community. It's, it's fun. You know, there's a lot of good stuff. It's a lot

of humor, but also some insight, you know, periodically. I mean, I wrote one a post in Facebook a couple of weeks ago is, you know, what do I think? What are some of the pearls of wisdom that I pass under this class about leadership? Now, give you one example. You know, leadership is, people give you permission to lead them. You cannot impose leadership on people. They will look at you and say, "I will let you lead me." And because if you try to impose it, they'll sandbag you,

the quit, whatever. And so, just remember, leadership is a voluntary act on their part. It's not something, you know, I just sort of be sober and thoughtful about that. Anyway, we, we, they are that kind of stuff that's being posted, but I've been a lot of either Facebook or through the website or whatever, I look forward to having them part of a broader circle, people who are the showered with wisdom from John Glasser. I love it, Jen. I can tell a lot. You have a few years of wisdom in

you and you are now dedicated to making the world a better place. Seems like you've been for that while, you know, you've been doing that for a while, and that's an obvious importance to you in your life. The next five is, I'm going to ask this question to everyone. Everyone, I'm going to ask this question to every single person. The scares you and then that question, and then I'm going to come back to you with their answers, but John, this has been great. I'm going to be two other questions that

as people. What's the scariest time of your life? Second, what's the hardest thing you've ever done?

Third, and then the third one, because we thought, look, in this kid came to me,

You know, what does that kind of love look like? And that's a good question. You know, and so

“anyway, you ask your people, what loves to be so them? What's the hardest thing they've ever done”

in one of them? They've been the most scared. They're going to be some very interesting answers.

My mind is blown. Thank you, John. All right, big guy. You have a good one. Say hi to everybody

“in Southern California for me. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and”

subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.