So, Wambi, I'm super excited today because I've always wanted to go on Shark ...
something I've always wanted to know is what is the feeling?
I watched the show so many times and I want to go on, what's the feeling when you're on there? And not only that, but if you get a deal, what is that feeling like? But first love pop, so your mission at Love Pop is one billion magical moments. I think we can all agree, we are in a mental health crisis right now.
It seems like, and then on top of that, we have so much disconnection from social media and AI now that people are like going to robots for comfort. It seems like what you're doing is even more important right now. That's right. The mission at Love Pop is to create one billion magical moments, of course, we do that
by making this beautiful, intricate paper art. So, look at that, that's our cherry blossom, really beautiful. And the reason this is so important, especially right now, is because loneliness is really, really bad for you, working on your social connections is really, really important.
“And that's why we've really built a whole company around that idea.”
Go back to the beginning. When you had this idea, what was the idea then compared to what it is, what it's morphed into now?
Yeah, when we first started the company, so my co-founder John and I originally shipped
designers, Naval Architects Marine Engineers, we were in Vietnam on a business school trip. Our goal was to start a business out of business school and we just fell in love with this amazing paper art. So, I'll just show you one more, because I love the products. This is the roller coaster of love.
You can see the engineering that has gone into this. So, we're really engineers. We thought we'd be doing something with like hard hats and steel toes, but we fell in love with this concept. And we're just like, oh my god, we can make anything out of this.
It wasn't really a business, it was just like, this will be fun. We want to use it for our own personal stationary. And then, it really kind of took one step after the other. We had a bunch in our backpacks. We were showing them to our friends and family.
We went out into Boston public gardens with the product and we were just handing it
“to people and we were asking like, hey, what would you do with this?”
And that was actually one of the most important moments.
It wasn't exactly this design, it was very similar to this. We handed it to a lady named Kyle and we asked her, what would you do with this? And she just like instantly said, oh, I know exactly what I would do with that. I would give it to my mom and I would give it to her today, because it's the fifth anniversary of my dad passing away.
And it's so beautiful, it's like a tree of life. It's just going to make her day. And that was that moment where it really clicked of like, yes, this is fun. This is exciting. We can make all kinds of fun little paper sculptures with this technique.
But it's really more than that. You're sending an emotion. You're creating that magical moment. It's more than paper. And that was the moment for us where it really clicked, like,
there's this big industry in greeting cards that hasn't changed in a hundred years. Knees disruption and people are hungry for something that's going to have more of an impact. I like that you went to people.
“I think sometimes we think, oh, there might be a need for something.”
But we don't ask people if there really is a need for something. And I think a lot of businesses fail in that sense because they don't really see is the market big enough for something that they're trying to create. So suddenly like, you had a very large market. You went to people, people loved it.
How did you get going? How did you create the actual business where you realize like, this is really going to be something? That's a really great point you just made because, yes, in the beginning, we did not have design. We did not have production.
We did not have marketing. We really didn't have anything. We were just testing the idea with real consumers in real environment. So we worked with some contract manufacturers. We got some product and we went to local fairs and markets.
We sold them out of our backpacks. We really try to get a understanding of the consumer and the market need before we did anything else. And one of the moments from that that I remember distinctly is we went to this market. South of Washington Avenue in Boston. And this is our first time at the market.
We spent a hundred dollars to get it a spot for a tent, which we borrowed from someone. And we went there. We didn't even have envelopes for cards. We were sitting there like cutting envelopes out and putting the little like two stick tape on it. As we were selling people cards and we ended up doing $1,700 that day.
And the tent next to us did a hundred dollars. And it was people were coming and they were bringing their friends.
They were like, oh my god, you gotta check this out.
And so John and I were not consumer products people at all engineers.
But we had never felt that energy going into an apparel store.
People aren't like, oh my god, look at this t-shirt. Like come here.
“But that's what was happening with love pop.”
And so that was kind of that initial spark. That was like there really is like a really important demand signal that we can't ignore. And then it was only well after that that we started making our own designs, started doing our own production, built the website. And of all those foundational pieces came after we already had a pretty good idea
that there was something fake here. I mean, 1700 and one day at a fair, that is pretty epic. You know you're onto something right there. Let's go to Shark Tank. So you're on Shark Tank.
You walk out there. Like I would probably poop my pants to be honest, like if I walked down on Shark Tank, I don't know if I get what was the feeling when you walked out. And then what was the feeling once you finished? Yeah.
Well, exactly like you said we I mean, we were so nervous. It was nerve racking because you know you stand in front of those doors. Which I don't know they're like three stories tall and you're just waiting, waiting to come out on set and they open the doors and then you're walking down that hallway. And you know, you Amelia things running through your minds like are we going to say the right
thing am I going to remember what I want to say when I get out there. And as soon as we got in front of the sharks, it was just this moment of relief almost because
it's like you see them and it's like these are the people you've seen like a million times.
And so it wasn't as scary. It's like, oh, I know these people. Obviously you don't know them. You just see them on TV, but it added that familiarity. So now all of a sudden we were a little bit calmer and then we started talking about the business.
And at that point, like everything else melted away. I forgot there were cameras, lights, like all it just completely faded into the background. And we were just talking about the business. And you know, that's kind of our jam. We got into the flow.
We completely didn't notice the time passing as we were going through the pitch. And then of course, incredibly lucky to land a deal with Kevin. So what, what did you find besides the deal with Kevin, the aftermath of shark tank in terms of visibility, sales, all that stuff? We've had a few people on that that did get deals that also did docket deals and all of them
have confirmed on their end that the shark tank effects was just insanity right after. Although some of them, it kind of faded.
“What was the impacts of shark tank to the business just being on there?”
Well, when our episode aired, it aired to seven and a half million people across the country.
And we ended up with almost immediately 33,000 people on our website. And we were really lucky we had prepared before that with another shark tank company, we could get good cupcakes in Boston who had been on a few years earlier. So their CTO came over, like really helped us prepare everything for that moment and everything helped together. So we had seven phone lines going, it took us a few weeks of
you know, getting through the email backlog. But it was real. And they actually did a follow-up episode a month later or so because we did about a million dollars of sales online based on that initial shark tank airing and the demand kind of that came from that. And then over the years, we still have people who learn about love-up on shark tank. So it's been an incredible way for people to get to know us. And I think it's really a personification of the American
dream to be on shark tank. And for any consumer product brand that is universal, like love-up, I think it makes a huge difference. There's just something about creating a,
“I think I've created like six failed products. I feel like I'm like, I'm way too early on things.”
Like, I think 10 years later, I feel like every time I create something, somebody then creates it, but 10 years later. But they have money in funding and I had enough. I didn't even have like, I should have gone to the fairs. You know, I should have got, I should have done something. I was lazy to be honest. But, but it's just something about creating a product and then seeing it. So how is it for you? Like, if you, you create the product
and then you see it somewhere. Like you see it on a shelf or you see it on TV. How is that feeling for you when you see your product somewhere? Well, I think it's one of the most rewarding things. And I have to show you more product because this is what we love to do. But our designers, you know, when, when they make something like, this is the Angler Fish Valentine's Day card. Actually, it's just a love card. You can give it for any love occasion. But, you know,
when you make something like this, we can get it into a market within a few weeks. And then
Continue to, to get it out to customers.
design. And given it to someone, you know, that's actually made a magical moment where someone's like, "Oh my God, so cute." You know, that's really, that's really everything that we live for it, love about. Obviously, the, like, the consumer good landscape has changed in terms of like, you know, used to be, you got to get into retail stores. And then it was, you got to get into e-commerce. And now people are like, you've got to get into social selling.
What are you finding as a brand that are marketing channels or channels where you need or sales channels that are still highly successful to this day? Well, I think every product is different. And every brand is a little bit different. But there are some principles that kind of hold true. So I'm a big believer of, there's some work. There's a book, how brands grow. It's a great one to pick up if you're really interested in brands. And one of the main ideas there is you need
a developmental availability. That availability can come from being on the shelf or it can come from
“advertising. But in some way, shape or form, you need to be aware, the consumer needs to be aware of”
you in their mind when they think of your category. And so for us, that's been direct to consumer. We have a had a lot of success in social media advertising. We've had a lot of success in organic traction online. But for us, retail hasn't been as big of a picture. We do have seven retail locations. It, you know, Disneyland, Disneyland, Disneyland, World of Grand Central Station in New York. A lot of
really amazing retail locations. But because our product takes up so much space to display
and is really special. It's actually easier to sell where we have control of kind of what the shelf looks like. But that's different for for every different product. This is a very visual discussion today. I don't think I've ever had a discussion with anyone that was so visual. Like, I mean, I could just do here. You could just all the every two seconds just over there. Here we go. Look at this, this is this is a fun new one. Oh my gosh, cloud flies into the card.
That's the magic. Love, hot magic. Wow. This one actually comes out of the card. Whoa, super cute brand new this year for Easter. That's amazing. Like, that's like, I feel like I'm watching a magic show where they're like, what's going to come out of the hat? You know, like, you open up the card. That's
like the hat. And like, something's going to pop out. That's amazing. So what was, what was something
that you had to change within yourself as a founder, as you really grew and scaled us? Like, when you scaled and you said, this is a really legitimate business. It could be after shark tank after, you know, a million dollar day. It could be after whatever miles on that you have. What
“is something you need to change within yourself? I think there's been quite a journey for me in”
terms of how I think about what's important. I'll give you an example of my journey in this one dimension. When I was little, I grew up in a household that was very logical and very black and white. So things were right or wrong. You had to defend your position. There was a lot of debate. And so when I went to college, I, that was kind of what I brought. And I remember having a debate with classmates over lunch, where I was about, you know, electric vehicles and emission impacts of
electric vehicles. And I was like, I started a business like, this debate, it's not really landing. Like, something is wrong. And so after, after I went to grad school, I ended up consulting which was an amazing opportunity. And I learned from my team leaders there, it's like, it's not
just about the right answer. It's actually about influencing the organization. And that's not always
“a linear path. So yes, the right answer is important. But also, there are sometimes multiple”
right answers. And it's just as important that people buy into what's going on. So okay, so I learned about that. And then when we started the business, I had to evolve again because what happened was I was figuring out how to, how to influence and convince people to go in the direction that I wanted us to go in, but that direction often ended up being wrong. And so then after being wrong a bunch of times. And I remember one, one, one, a specific example is like, I really wanted multiple card sizes.
And my co-founder really didn't want multiple card sizes, especially in the beginning. And a few years later, I, you know, I just sat back and said, you're right, we should have just stuck to one size. Like it would have made everything so much easier. But I had convinced us that we were going to have these multiple sizes. And so then I learned like it's not even about convincing people about your point of view because you might be wrong. And in fact, I'm wrong a lot. And it's really
About listening and understanding the other points of view and incorporating ...
solid decision. And then ultimately, as I've continued to evolve, the next step on that journey has
“been, it's not even about me making the decisions. It's about other people making the decisions,”
which means finding really great people and figuring out how to work with really great people, which is an incredibly tricky and difficult skill. And so that's kind of the part of the journey where I am now. And I'm really curious what comes next. But I know that that's kind of how I've evolved over the years. People and communication might be the two most challenging things of running a business. I can imagine, you know, as you've grown in scaled in things,
at least from what I hear too, that those, if you have the people breakdown and the communication breakdown, like the whole company can collapse. When you look at launching new products and services. And I like how you brought this up. Like you were going to launch a product. Your co-founder said, it's not a good idea. You didn't. And that was a great thing. How do you look at when you you are launching a new product in service? And the reason I ask, as well as, it seems a lot of
people try to do too many products and services without getting really, really good at one or two
“in the beginning. Yeah, I think it's a great question. How do we think about launching new product?”
I think one of the most important things before putting too much time or energy into a product
is really understanding the customer, really understanding the problem that they're having. And really understanding if your product is the solution. And, you know, at this point, is it a product? Is it a service? Is it a combination? In some way, it's a solution for a customer problem. And what I've continued to find is that the customers, the only person who can tell you whether what you're doing is what they want. And they will tell you immediately if you structure the
test correctly. And so, for example, a survey, would you like this? Doesn't give you any good information. And email that says, hey, here, this is available to purchase right now gives you fantastic information. And so, I think there's an art in structuring tests. I think what we've continued to find at Love Pop. I mean, we launch a hundred products a quarter almost. And we get instant feedback. So, like the second we launch at an email, we know whether it's working or not.
So, there's no question once you get it out there. Other consumers are responding. Thank you for sharing that. I mean, that's amazing that you're launching so many products, but you're getting the feedback instantly, which then allows you to pivot and change in the moment. I know you have stash that you're launching. Tell me about that. Yes, the stash. So, we did a lot of customer research and understanding. And over the years as
well, what helps people send more cards? And again, our mission is one billion magical moments. We know that working on your own personal relationships and nurturing them is what makes you healthier and happier. Tons of research back that up. And so, we've been really focused on how can people send more cards? What we learned from our best customers, the people who are sending 30, 40, 50 cards a year, is that they all have a stash of greeting cards at home.
It's my being a drawer and a box. In some way, they are always ready to go. And, you know,
“some of those occasions you can plan out, but some things happen last minute. Maybe you have to”
go to a funeral last minute. Someone has a birth that you forgot about, like, you need to have cards on hand. And so, that's what we heard from everyone. So, we built into that the subscription program called stash pass, where we actually have multiple different versions of it, but you can get shipped five cards a season, five cards a quarter, and you always have the right card on hand. And it's also a way for us to give our customer some value and giving ourselves some more kind of
operational certainty around how many units will need it a certain point of time. Do you ever have a moment, and I like that stash? I mean, it makes sense. Like we do? We all have our greeting cards stash. We have our card stash. You know, what though, when you move on from relationships, sometimes you have to remove the stash, but some people keep the stash. I don't know. I guess that's, that's debatable. That's a debatable talk.
Well, I mean, you're talking about there's, there's the, you know, there's the stash of cards you've received, and then there's the stash of cards that you have yet to send. In this case, we're focused on the cards you have yet to send, not a lot of re-gifting going on in the greeting card space. But we've seen it all. We've seen it all, for sure. People have re-gifted love apps they've received,
which is always funny. Well, I could see yours because I wouldn't want to write in the card.
I would want to keep it. So if you, and the hard part of re-gifting a card is if you write in the card, but you don't see, that's fine. I know you're not writing that card.
Yeah.
slide out note that we slide out because people don't want to write on the inside of the love pop,
because it's just too precious and you don't want to mess it up. So we added the slide out note. So actually, love pop is about as re-giftabose against because you add a new slide out note, which we also have available on the site. You could do it. So you could re-gift it. Do you? I would imagine this. It's, it's very interesting being in business. It's like,
“there's so many things you have to balance, you said this before. You also have to balance whether”
your company is going to even be relevant in the future. And I would think that with technology, many times people get fallen to this trap of like, oh, your company, it's a green-car company, or it's a book. And it's a record, whatever it is, right? And people are like, oh, well, technology is going to move away from that. But I think what we find is technology moves us away from something, but it then moves us even further into it. For example, like books, like physical books,
magazines, cards, I find that it's, it's fascinating how it's like, we almost go so far in the technology, which then pushes us so further into physical things. Are you finding now where with this, with everyone going into AI, it's like everything is becoming fake. We don't even know what is real that people are even more interested to physically have something in their hand that they know is real. I think there are a couple different trends going on. And I'm curious
how it all plays out. But I have some theories of what's going to happen. So I think the first trend is we're starting to recognize as a society that social media is a drug and that these feed-based algorithms are not good for us. And that, you know, the time we spend scrolling is actually a net negative. So I think that's going to continue. I were going to continue to realize that and it's going to be really tough to deal with. But ultimately, that is going to push us towards figuring out
ways to abstain from it in the same way that we have with other drugs. And so I think that's
“really important and it really increases the focus on personal relationships. I think AI, it's another”
really amazing tool. There's amazing things about it and then there's challenging things about it.
And I agree with you that trust is one of the things that's mostly impacted because now you know, you don't know what something is or where it's coming from. And so I think that again will also put more focus on your real human personal relationships. And you don't need to have that many close relationships for it to be a really positive impact on your life. But you do have to focus on them. And so I think that's a really important trend. It's going to continue. And I believe that
we are going to continue to do more and more amazing work to make it easier for you to actually build those relationships. Hey, songs. You are a visionary. So I wrote this book right here on limited
“possibilities because I feel like we often set our own boundaries, not based on what's really”
possible. Did you have an unlimited possibility moment in your life where you had something you said, you know what? This is a huge goal, but I'm going to achieve it. Well, we've talked about
love pop a lot. So I'll not use that because it's definitely one billion magical moments is this massive
goal that we have a lot of work to do to get to. But I'll use something smaller. You know, one of my own personal kind of leadership principle and goal is to make pigs fly. I worked on this a lot. And the really the thing that that means is get people to believe that they can do something that seems impossible and get people together to do something that seems impossible. One very small example of this, but really fun one is back in 2000 and 12. I brought together a group of people
for a goal of building a Mississippi steamboat to launch onto the Charles River in Boston for the 4th of July. So there's Boston Pops plays like 4th of July. It is hundreds of thousands of people downtown in Boston. You can't go and really get a good spot. So we're going to build a boat and we're going to take it on the Charles. And we ended up in one week, actually three and a half days. We built this 32 person barge themed as a Mississippi steamboat. Got it out there, stayed on it
overnight. Had everyone out there for the barbecue and then brought it back to short, disassembled it, sold all the pieces on Craigslist and the whole thing was done. And we did all that in the space of less than a week. But it was this magical moment that no one who was on that boat will ever forget
That moment.
a boat there or it's, you know, the products that we make at Love Hop. That is your unlimited
“possibility. I like that. Pigs fly moment. I'm going to remember that. But Wambi, people want”
to get in touch with you. They want to find out more about Love Pop. Maybe they need to move their stash. They need to add more into their stash. How can they do so? Love Pop.com. So Love Pop.com has
“all of our, at this point, we're close to 6,000 unique designs that are up on the website. And of”
course, stash pass, you can find us in retail, in Grand Central Station, Moynihan, or Hudson Yards in New York, in Harvard Square, or a potential center in Boston, in a Disney world, and Disneyland. And you can find us on Instagram and Facebook as well at Love Pop at Love Pop cards.
“Well, thank you for, I love the, the one billion magical moments. I'm going to remember this.”
I'm going to say, you know what, Wambi, that's your legacy right there. In a time when people are in need, you came and you gave them a magical moment. So thank you so much for
all that you do. Thank you. And we're at 67 million magical moments today. And I'm sure that just a
few of the people listening to this are going to add some more magical moments to the goal. So thank
you. Every moment gets you closer to one billion. I like that you have the counter. That's amazing.
Let's help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.
