Colman Domingo loves a challenge

One that's so good, it completely eclipses the original.

“On the latest all songs considered from in-pure music,”

we make a case for the greatest of all time. That is what I want out of a great cover, something that picks up the thing that was in the song, but that was not made explicit. Check out new episodes of all songs considered in the in-pure music podcast every Tuesday. This is fresh air, I'm Tony Mosley.

My guest today, Coleman Domingo, is nominated for two Emmy Awards this year for two very different performances. In the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons, he plays Danny, one half of a long married couple who vacation each year with their oldest friends. Danny is funny, vain, and peckably dressed, and now in his 50s,

confronting a question he thought he'd settled long ago, whether he wants to become a father. And in the final season of HBO's euphoria, Domingo returns as Ali, a man in long-term recovery who has spent the series trying to help Rue played by Zindaya, stay alive.

Domingo won an Emmy for that role in 2022, and this year he's nominated again for his performance in the series finale. It's the latest chapter and a remarkable stretch for Domingo, whose rise in Hollywood came after decades in the theater.

“He started in regional productions in San Francisco,”

then moved to New York where he performed on Broadway, one in Obi was nominated for a Tony and an Olivier, and wrote and directed his own plays. In his 40s, Hollywood caught up with him, and since then he's had a steady run of roles, an Emmy,

and back to back Oscar nominations for the film Rustin and Sing Sing. Just this year, he played Joe Jackson in the biopic Michael, and had a role in Steven Spielberg's disclosure day, and hosted Saturday Night Live in just last month, Jimmy Kimmel. [ Cheers and applause ]

Welcome to Jimmy Kimmel Live. I'm your guest host, Coleman Domingo. [ Cheers and applause ] I'm so happy to be here with all of you. We're going to have some fun this week.

Just think of me as Jimmy, if he had better clothes in Zindaya's phone number. [ Laughter ] Coleman Domingo, welcome back to fresh air. Thank you so much, Tony. I appreciate it. I was such a delight to see you on Jimmy Kimmel every summer.

He has guests, hosts who come in, and you were in the rotation, and you were in the rotation for just about a whole week. Yeah, for a whole week, and it was great. It was like the week of a lifetime. It was so much fun.

And, you know, I love that things are coming to me right now,

like opportunities to do things I've never done before.

Like I'm never hosted a late night show, but I love the idea of looking at myself the way someone else sees me. And if Jimmy thought that I could do it, I thought, well, let me try. But the first thing I do is I go into deep research.

I went back and looked at old Jack Parshow. Oh, you did. You went away. Oh, yeah, Johnny Carson. I looked at the grades, and I wanted to figure out how did they do it,

“and what was their style, and what would my style be?”

Yeah. Well, congratulations on your Emmy nominations, and on being able to host Jimmy Kimmel Live. Thank you. The four seasons is such a fun watch. And it's about three couples, old friends,

who vacationed together for decades, and what happens to the group when those marriages start to shift, which happens with everyone's relationship. This season, your character, Danny, he's dealing with several issues within his own marriage,

and he and his husband, Claude, have been talking about having a child,

and Claude is, he's basically having second thoughts.

And so I actually want to play a scene, and this scene, Danny has just come from one of those conversations with his partner, and he's confiding in his best friend Kate, played by Tina Fey, while they look at a beach home that is for sale.

Let's listen. Okay, six, five, five, ocean lane. I mean, the wallpapers, mid-west funeral home, but the house, if we were smart, we were quiet and turn it into a bed and breakfast.

Oh, I mean, I will retire early and run it, and then when our husband's die. Claude, Batch, Facelet, Jack, perforate a rectum from too many unnecessary colonoscopies. Yeah, we'll live here together.

Ah, can we do it now? Claude's pissing me off. Oh, is it because of his bonnet? The surrogate asks where it's still interested. But now all of a sudden, Claude thinks that we're too old.

Oh, I mean, I get it. No, I'm supposed to say you're not too old, and how dare he? I'm sorry, you are very young. You told me who scissor was.

Do I know for sure for sure if we should do it? No, but I do know we can't keep talking about it.

Why are they never going to do it?

Or are we going to come to Tony Randall's who feed our baby applesauce that we also eat? Okay, if you're really having trouble

No, possible. Absolutely not. All the three magic questions. I'll tell you in your sleep. It's really helpful to me to decide whether I should do

and visualize for a third time.

I decided, possibly at a later date. There's nothing to decide. At this point, we just need to push through. Yes, you could push through. Or you could seriously consider Claude's concerns.

Is this right for both of you? Hi, Brenda. We are definitely still interested. What are you doing? I'm pushing through.

That was my guest Coleman Demingo in the Netflix series The Four Seasons. Throughout that entire clip, you kept laughing at all the different points. Oh my god, Danny is so assurbek. I mean, my gosh, he's like an altered universe me.

I think that was in one way. Yeah, I don't know. He's just really pointed in funny. He's really accracing that I really, really love. I love it the way the writers write for him.

Yeah. Did you have a hand in it though? The funny thing is, no, I was saying the thing that I have a hand in.

I will, when I first met with Tina Fey to talk about this character.

Because she's the creator. Yeah, she's the creator. Yeah, she and Langfisher and Tracy Wakefield. They wanted to bring together a group of people that they understood. You know, based on the 1981 and all the film.

But to really make it modern and fun and warm, and make sure that this couple in particular, it's one of the central couples as well. This couple should feel like a couple that I understand. And I knew the thing that I told Tina was,

here's the same sex loving couple that are really in very heteronormative environments. Like these couples are having issues like everyone else, but they're also very spirited and very much who they are. This is an ensemble of comedy veterans. Tina Fey and Will Forte, they came up through SNL as we know Steve Carrell through second city.

Carrie Kenny Silver through Reno 911, and that is largely improvised. And you have done some comedy, but you have come from some serious places. You come from the theater, you know?

Very much. I did that make for any interesting dynamics on the set. Well, the thing is, when I first got, got the invitation to be a part of it, I thought, for a second I thought, well, why me, in particular,

I'm not really known for comedy,

“but I think that what Tina and the rest of the gang could tell”

is that I'm willing and I'm game, but I hadn't relied on those comedic chops in a long time. So to lean into that was something I felt new and fresh again for me, especially the slate in my career, where the idea of doing a half-hour comedy was a challenge.

I wanted to see if I could do it more than anything. You can just imagine, though, being with all of those funny men and women, did it feel good when they laughed at the stuff you said. You know, it does, but the funny thing is about funny people, and I tell you this.

And I wonder if they would see this by themselves. They don't naturally laugh when something's funny, because they're like mad scientists. They almost look at the math of it. Oh, they're dissecting it.

That's good. I wonder how that happened. You did this, you turned on the slide. You probably gave a pause, you're the beat. Most comedians, I know, are very serious people.

And also, they're also a bit shy.

“I think my, I would say this, Tina is very shy.”

I would say Steve Correll is very shy. But they know how to get the thing done. Like mathematicians. They look at it in that framework, which I think is fascinating. You actually direct it in episode.

Yeah, this season. This season. Lang Fisher, one of the three co-creators of the show, said that when you directed the episode, Ultimate Frisbee, she watched you cry in a scene you were in while directing another actor through his own tears.

Going back into that character, you were in to keep, to keep crying. All while still watching, whether the background performer meets his steps. And that seems like an extraordinary amount of work too. To hold all I want. It is, and I don't know if everyone's brain is meant for that, but I feel like I have

one of those brains.

I can manage a lot, which is why I've always, I've always been a director since I started

in the theater, because I can handle a lot of Frisbee's up in the air at same time. So I know the scene exactly she was talking about. She was amazed that I was able to direct my co-star while keeping my emotional work, while being able to look at playback, while making sure that background is

the only thing they need to do. I just have one of those brains. Where does that come from? I know you're hyper organized. I'm hyper organized, but also, maybe that's it.

I'm well prepared and planned. So I can be loose and free, but my mind has always been on everything.

“I think it starts with the way I came to this industry, which was”

learning by going to rehearsals, I wasn't even in.

and San Francisco, and I played rehearsals. And I would, I would watch. And I would watch all departments and what was going on. So I had a hand of everything. And also, if I was invited to be in a scene, I would be able to take a look at what

I'm doing and how the engine of what I'm doing is forwarding the whole thing.

So I'm never just focused on, I don't know, solely as an actor or as a writer or a director.

I'm looking for a whole picture at all times. So I know I can manage that.

“So I think that that's what my brain naturally does.”

What made you want to do that? I'm thinking about a young Coleman. You could have just been focused on, I want to act. I want to be on the stage. Or I want to write.

I want to be a screenplay writer, but for you to say, I'm going to, on my free time, step into someone else's rehearsal and dissect it. I'm just very curious about all of it. It's always been that way for me. And I think that's just been a very curious kid.

And I knew that, listen, I come from a very humble place. I come from West Philadelphia, where you know, a lot of blue-collar folks.

It was the first my family to the college.

And I think I knew that my power was in learning and education. And learn as much as you can. And get as much as you can from every situation. So you name it. Whatever show them on.

I can't just go in there just as an actor.

“I will always end up as a director and a producer.”

You name it because I have that interest. Not everyone has that. There's some people very singular. And that's also fine. But I know that like when I did the show free of the walking dead,

I started as number nine of a call shade. Ended in number two and a director and a producer. You know, so for me, even with four seasons, I love the fact that I'm a director in that show. Because I feel like I understand it and I can give something to it.

You know, I understand the actors that I'm working with. Mostly comedians who I sort of help usher them to go to the, you know, more dramatic places. And it surprises them where they're able to go. And I love that.

I love that, you know, because I know I have that facility to do that. And help bring the best out of my cast. Let's talk about euphoria for a moment. I love to.

“Yeah, I mean euphoria lovers watch the end of an era this year.”

And to remind people, yo roll was as Ali, he is a man in long term recovery. Yes. It was also Ruth's sponsor. And Ruth is played by Zindaya.

This was basically written for you by Euphoria's creator Sam Levinson.

And he wrote it based on his own former sponsor. So it was inspired by that. And there have been so many mixed reactions. You know, of course, when I show ends, it is, you can't please everybody on how a show ends.

But this show in particular, because we have been following Ruth, we have been following you and all the characters. To end the way it ends feels both devastating, but it also feels true, like it feels extremely true to life. I want to play a scene from this last episode.

Ali's purpose at this point in the show had been to be a support for people battling addiction. And it feels like a job he can't ever really be successful at, because kids keep dying. I mean, fentanyl is out there.

And it is killing people. And without giving away spoilers, I will say that at this point in the show, Ali is tired. And he is broken hearted. And here he is at an AA meeting,

giving his testimony. Let's listen. The couple months ago, I lost him when I really cared about. And for the first time in a long time,

I picked a bed drank. I don't know what to do with the pain. I've been a Christian Muslim. I found myself not believing. I just thought that I'm tired.

Tired losing people. Tired as many of my life in these rooms and in diners and in my house, talking to kids, helping kids, poor my heart and so on, kids.

Only tonight's seem to get a second chance. I'm done. The only thing I know for certain is that there is a right and a wrong in this world. You know, in between, you know,

either making them what a better place or you're making it worse. In the end, it's that simple. This is going to be my last meeting. I'm gonna find another way to be a better service. That is my guest today, Coleman Domingo,

Coleman, we watched the evolution of Euphoria.

He's trying to save Rue. He's also trying to do that for himself. He sponsoring other people's children because he doesn't have a relationship with his own children.

“With that in mind, how did you think about how you would play him?”

How you would wrap him up? Because you kind of chose to play him cold. You did not play him emotional. And that seems to be the choice. I think because that's the toll that it's taken on him.

I think that he's someone who's very deeply feeling. And I thought, in the writing of it, I thought, okay, well, here's someone who's given so much to so many. And when this significant death happens, I think it numbs him and then he's on a mission.

Trying to find what was important. When he went back to the bottle, he knew that wasn't it either. And he was like, I have to do something else. The most beautiful thing about this last season of Euphoria is the framework.

The framework is of an American Western.

It's yes. And when Western's classic Western's, there's just good and bad. And I'll be decided that that was it. There's no one between.

He's going against something that he used to espouse. There was a bit more complicated. Is it actually no people just don't know the difference between right and wrong? And that's it. So therefore, I'm going to fight for with right.

And I'm going to use what I have in this moment to fight for good. And that's what he does. Do you metabolize these characters in these storylines with that emotional way of feeling like it's true? Did you form more in at all?

“I think you could possibly tell that even listening to either character,”

there's something that's so close in my skin. Like my body just started to react. I started to cry. When I was listening to them, but I'm just talking about them.

Because they're in me. All these characters are in me. I mean, we haven't talked about Joe Jackson, but Joe Jackson's in me. I mean, you know, by Russians in me,

I think there's an Abbey Lincoln song that says, "I've got some people in me." I believe everyone lives in me and everyone calls on me to help tell their story. And so it is metabolized in me.

There's aspects of them in like experience or the people that I know that I can tap into. So literally, you know, I'm not a method actor, but I can go very deep with my characters. But I know that they're just right here.

I can tap and literally just listen, which is why a lot of times I watch. I don't watch my work that often. Unless I need it to like, "Oh, let me remember what I'm talking about before I go into depressed."

But I'll watch it sometimes. Like my movie Sing Sing. I've only watched it twice, because it feels closer to anything I've ever done if it was closer to me.

Coleman, I was very fascinated. You growing up in West Philadelphia, watching the news with your mother every evening. And you having the sense and understanding that, "Oh, I'm seeing lots of things in the world

that are troubling, but also this is not a full view of the world. And I want to be a part of providing a more expansive view, and where that came from for you." My mother was very much,

and she had a great imagination, and she was very hopeful. Very in believing, she set me up early with the belief that the world is set up to do me more good than harm. And it may not be here where we are, but it's out there.

And it's in all those books that I would read. It's in all the books that I read about ancient Egypt and Rome, and the world. And she inspired me to go see the world, go out there in the world.

There's more than just this. She said, "You can go there someday. You can actually go to those places." And I believe, too.

“You know, so I think that she really believed in”

she was very spiritual, but she also helped me believe in myself, and believe that I could be a part of the world. I was so much to my mom and to my stepfather, and to my family growing up,

because I feel like I was a very... I was sort of the weird kid in a way, and weird. I don't know. Because I feel like I didn't do what other kids did.

I would play with Legos and in the house, and I played the violin, and all the stuff that, like, I guess, you know, the inner city kids didn't do so much.

It seemed at that time.

And I was always in the library

from the moment the school was over, and I was in the library. And I was creating there. I was sort of the weird little brother. I wasn't to athletics,

and I wasn't into... And you didn't feel pressured to do it anyway. No. No, I was very nurtured. I was nurtured to be soft,

to be very honest. I'm thinking about my sister right now. You're such a weirdo.

You're such a weirdo, but then she would hug me. Oh, my brother Rick will come in from gymnastics present.

“He's tough, and he was one of the cool kids.”

And we still, they had, they loved their sweet soft. Little brother. Yeah, they loved me, and they made me feel special. No one ever made me feel that I, I wasn't the person I was supposed to be.

Our guest today is award-winning actor Coleman Domingo. We'll be right back after a break. I'm Tanya Mosley, and this is fresh air. This week on here and now any time, why older siblings may be more financially successful.

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This is Fresh Share. I'm Tanya Mosley. And my guest today is actor playwright director and producer Coleman Demingo. He's nominated for two Emmy Awards this year for the Netflix comedy The Four Seasons

“and for the final season of HBO's Euphoria.”

He won an Emmy for Euphoria in 2022. Demingo came up in the theater and has been nominated for both Atoni and Olivier. He's also a playwright.

On film, he's worked with Steven Spielberg,

Avedu René, Barry Jenkins, Lee Daniels and Lincoln, Selma, if Bill Street could talk and the butler. He played Mr. in the color purple and has been nominated for back-to-back Academy Awards for Best Actor. Recently, he played Joe Jackson and Michael,

the biopic of the early years of Michael Jackson. Joe Jackson is the reason why we have Jackson five. He had Michael. He also was a complicated person. He was an abusive father who demanded excellence. And I'm going to play a bit of your performance

and we'll talk about it on the other side. In this scene, Michael is a young man. He is just finished recording thriller. And this is the album that's going to make him the most famous man in the world. He lives with his parents.

And so he comes home and he finds his father in his room. And Joe wants Michael to tour with his brothers as the Jackson five. And it's the last thing that Michael wants to do. Michael talks first. Or are you here?

Well, it can't afford to visit his son. Biggest sudden record of all time. We'll poke him from Gary. Who would have thought of me? I thought. Come here.

Joseph, I know you want something. Michael, I'm going to need you to tour with your brothers. Now, I let you do that album by yourself. I'm going to need you to do this for me. For your family.

I'm not a child anymore, Joseph. Any not my manager. Here we go. I have to start living my own life. On my own.

Just like everyone else. You ain't like everyone else. So you trying to tell me you want to be treated like a mad dog. All right. You want to see what the world is like without a family that protects you.

Without a family that understands you. Nobody else will understand you outside this place. There you'll be with all the money in the world. It's run about people who say yes to everything. Say what you want.

That's not a sense of that. I'm going to call on King and tell me doing a tour. I know you don't want to let your family down.

Well, Coleman, you just mentioned that in order to play Jo, you had to tap into the Joe inside of you. I think that's really interesting. Tell me a little bit more about that. I'll say that Jo Jackson that would live in me is represented by all the blue collar men that I know of a certain generation. Who were raised, you know, pre-civil rights.

The men who were like maybe had a third grade education who they believe was work ethic showing up showing up for your family and making it a family business.

The great migration. It's the great migration men. Absolutely. Men that I have a soft spot for that I understand. It's like my stepfather was probably part of the generation.

He was a guy who had a seventh grade education. And he sent it to Harvard floors, he had a craft. And he was very tough. When he met my mom, my mom had, you know, three children. And he became our stepfather. And he had very rigorous rules, which was about education. During your homework, being a man of your word, chores.

He was tough. When he came home, you'd better make sure the house was clean.

“And I think that I understood that kind of man.”

I'm like, okay, now let me get into the head space of that man. That man who's got to support the Jackson family, nine children. He's working at a still mill. His sons have talent. And his sons also asked him to help them.

They were like, they started a group everybody started in groups. And he saw talent as kids. And he worked them. Mm-hmm. That scene that you played is one of my favorite scenes, actually.

Because it starts to go into a lot of the things that, you know, I have to look through the lens of Joe Jackson. I had to look at the lens of being a father and a parent. I couldn't let what people said about him be the truth. And how did you do that? Because you're an actor.

But you're also just a person who was born and raised in the United States.

“And the place that the Jackson Five and Michael Jackson plays in our imagination is gloom so large.”

I mean, you're coming into it with the preconceived.

Yeah, but the first thing you do with anyone you take the person and you look at the character of the person.

And I looked at interviews. I even had one wonderful, this interesting interview. I wouldn't say wonderful. Interesting interview when Joe was asked about like being harsh to his children, especially in Michael. And he's with a smile as well. Yeah, Michael said, uh, yeah, I walked them.

Yeah, like he like I walked them. He said, but I walked them all the way to the bank. Mm-hmm. So in his mind, he's the hero. If you're just joining us, my guest is award-winning actor Coleman Domingo. We'll continue our conversation after a short break.

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And today I am talking with Coleman Domingo. He's up for two Emmys this year for the Netflix comedy The Four seasons. And for the final season of HBO's Euphoria. He's also been nominated for Back to Back Academy Awards for Rustin and for Sing Sing. And 2024, you play Divine G in the film Sing Sing for which you were nominated for an Academy Award.

And it is about a group of men incarcerated at Sing Sing Prison who put together a play. And it's based on a real program they're called rehabilitation through the arts. And your company, Edith Productions, which is named after your mother, helped finance and produce this film. What was it that made you say? I've got to go all in.

I've got to put myself in it. My money. My time. Everything. And act in it.

I got this really incredible opportunity from great quitar and Glenn Bentley.

The director and producer of Sing Sing. They were putting together something that really there was no script. And it was just an article an old article they had about this program. They sent me that and they said we've been trying to make a film about this program in some way. But not about the program, but it should just be about people.

And then the idea of inviting former incarcerated men to be a part of it, who went through this program called rehabilitation through the arts.

They come in and they teach the incarcerated men theater games and put them in place.

And they found that doing that.

“And it was all organized by the inmates.”

They found by doing that. It helped these guys get more touch with the feelings. It's a bit more empathy. It became a tool to help them in process while they were on the inside. And then the recidivism rate was less than 6%.

Of those who had come to the program, which was extraordinary. So based on all of that, I thought I would love to be a part of this. Divine G, your character who's a real person in running this theater program. It's his entire world. And I want to play a scene where he's at his clemency hearing.

Because he's at a moment where he's up for potentially being released from prison. And he's trying to explain what the program has meant to him.

And one of the commissioners isn't buying it.

She wants to know whether she's watching a performance. Let's listen. You've been involved in numerous programs. So it's too long a list for me to go through. But I do have a question about the theater program.

“You've been involved in that many years, have you know?”

Yes. Yes, ma'am. I am a founding member of this program. It's something I'm very proud of. And what part do you play in this program?

Actor, director? Well, we all do a few things. I'm on what is called the steering committee. We make a lot of decisions for how it operates. And from time to time, I do act.

Like we all do. And it's been a program that was established to help the population with management skills. And it's turned into something a bit more, I don't know. Wonderful, because it helps people get more in touch with the feelings and able to process and actually move through. And it really gets some rehabilitation.

So are you acting at all during this interview? Absolutely not. I truly hope that you can understand that I've been very sincere. I know how meaningful this is.

I would never actually that's not the intention of acting.

Acting is just a, you know, a process. I read about the program. It's a good program. That is my guest, Coleman Domingo, as divine G in the film, Sing Sing. Yeah, the clemency officers played by the great Sharon Washington.

Thank you, yes. Who is one of my dearest friends? And so I was able to populate the film with just a couple actors who are actually professional actors who can help anchor. These moments. And so when this scene comes up, I thought we need that voice of someone who is the system.

In a particular, I think it was written as sort of a white male. And I brought the idea of great queer, but I'm like, I think it should be a black woman. Because no one knows that a black woman, when she's in a position of authority in that way, she's going to be more system because she's more eyes on her. So she almost had to be a bit more removed and be the system.

And I thought that's also a complicated story. That's a story within a story of the demands put in black women. You know, one of the things also about that performance that came up for me is like, "Okay, it's you and front of you're having to display yourself in the same way.

“It's not the same thing, but similar to the audition process where you have to stand up before people”

and they have to judge you. And my goodness, early in your career, you did this so much. All the time. All the time. I think I read here that you were auditioning in your 40s as many as eight times a week.

Yes. Still bartending and you weren't working. And there's one day when you received a phone call where you decided that like, I'm done. I was exhausted from the output that I've been putting in for years in the industry. And the gains that I've had many, many gains by the time I went to the West End

London and I was performing the Scottsboro Boys and I had an Olivier nomination. And I was doing work that I thought was impactful and important. And then I would go back to New York. And then I would just like be pounding pavement again. Almost like getting roles that I felt like didn't match what I can give.

I didn't have a lot of access or real agency. So, and then I had like countless auditions that were sort of meaningless or I felt like just going into the void. No one was seeing my tapes. And I was just like, I was just really exhausted to the point where I just sort of broke down.

I was at the gym and I'm on every of this. I just started sobbing after this one. Other huge no. You received a phone call. Yeah, I received a phone call from my agent about, you know, everybody need to yes.

And I was like, well, this is my yes. I had like eight auditions this week.

My finances need a yes. My husband needs a yes. My soul needs a yes.

“And literally she called me up and she said, everyone loved you.”

"Do you love to your directors, love to you?"

It was an audition for "Bore Work Empire." - "Bore Work Empire." - "Bore Work Empire." And it was the play, I made for a day or something, a host, a show host or something, a chalky's bar. Played by Michael K Williams, but it was the bar.

And I thought, "Well, this has to be the one. I can see myself in this world. This is great." - Yeah. - They need a song and dance, man. I sang a dance, I wore the Tuxedo in the audition. They all loved me.

And then she said, "But, but, a researcher raised this hand, and said, "Well, you know, "om, make your days and hosts at that time." We're like, "Skin." And it wasn't even about the lightskin part of it.

That's not what I was angry about. I literally yelled into the phone. I said, "They knew what I looked like before I got there. "I feel like everyone's a thing with me." And people didn't respect the time and energy

that an artist put into something.

I thought, "Well, this business is going to kill me.

"It's going to break my heart." And my heart was getting very broken. So I was making steps to leave. And then, my angel, one of my best friends, Daniel Breaker, he says, "No, who's an extraordinary actor in his own right?"

We started in passing strange together in Broadway. He said, "You know, my manager has been wanting to meet "with you for years." I'm like, "Oh, no, I don't want that anymore. "I'm good, I'm good."

He said, "Just think of it, just meet with them." I was like, "Oh, fine." And I went to this meeting and I was as begrudging as possible. I had my arms folded. I know it.

I was not the effervescent me. I was like, "This is what I do. "This is what I've done. "I could do this." I don't know.

You tell me. I said, "Oh, we loved to work with you." I said, "Okay, well, how about this? "Why don't we give us six months and we'll see if we can go." Within six months, a booked fear of the Walking Dead

and another series. And then I chose fear of the Walking Dead and that show gave me a new footing in my career. I had a steady job on television and it gave me some more financial stability.

It gave me a character that has poem itself into how he came a director on that show and a producer on that show. And I had more footing. And I had more, I had that yes to keep going.

- Well, you're definitely in your harvest stage, right now. And you're so busy. You have so many projects. And you have so many projects ahead. - Do you feel like you're in a rush

to get as much done as possible?

“You brought up your age many times during our conversation?”

- You know what? I bring up my age sort of as a lovely marker because I really love being in my 50s.

I never knew that that would be the case.

- That you would love it, 'cause we're told. - I love that. - Yeah, you know what people say like, "Oh, you can older whatever you're like, "No, I feel like it's so cool and it's so good."

And you know, so I think that I'm not rushing. The funny thing is, I feel like, listen, I've told people this and they don't believe it. I said I'm gonna do a lot more between now and about, I'm saying it's 161-62.

And then I'm gonna live a bit softer in a way because I feel like I've been building so much. I think that maybe I'm curious about evolving. So I don't feel like that I'm rushing anything. I feel like if anything right now I'm taking more time

and being really, I mean, very conscious about time with people, sometimes I have to rethink 'cause I will say yes first. And then I will have to reset and say, "Do I really wanna do that?"

- Yes, what you can do when you're in your 50s? - When you're 50s, you're like, I can do that because I'm fine with myself. And I'm not responsible about the way a person feels about it either.

Someone told me that which is very cool, but she was 60 and she told me that she said, she was taking me around this plantation act to in Georgia and we're talking about life. And she says, you know, how would he, I said,

I'm 50, whatever it was. And she says, "Ah, she's a year in your storytelling season." I said, "Oh yeah," she says, "Yeah, when you turn about 60, like me, you move into your truth telling season."

I said, "What's that?" She says, "Well, if you don't wanna do something, you just say no." And I said, "Just no." She said, "No, you don't have a qualifier.

No, but she doesn't know because it's not my responsibility. But when I make another person feel, if I say it with love, but I'm honoring myself with love and grace, I say no." And that's it.

“So I think I decided to move into that chapter a little earlier.”

So, right, it's now the new 60 is the new 50s. It's the new 50, to 54, and to be in the truth telling season. Well, Coleman Domingo, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you so much. You're so very welcome, Diane.

This has really been wonderful, thank you. Coleman Domingo is nominated for two Emmys for his performances in euphoria and the four seasons. Coming up, classical music critic Lloyd Schwartz reviews a newly remastered album of Handle Arias,

sung by Lorraine Hunt Lieberson. This is fresh air. History is intriguing. But unlike the present, it can feel far off. On NPR's through line, we bring it back to life,

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This is fresh air. Fresh air's classical music critic Lloyd Schwartz. His often spoke about the American Med-Sosoprano Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, who died 20 years ago at 52. The new release of a remastered recording of her singing "Handle Arias,"

reminded Lloyd to his embarrassment.

“That the very first time he heard her, he wasn't sure how special she was.”

Critics don't always get it right.

The first time I heard a soprano named Lorraine Hunt. Back in 1984, she was not yet married to composer Peter Lieberson. She played a featured role in an early Mozart opera. I had known her before only as a violist in the orchestra of Boston's Emmanuel Church.

My critic colleagues were totally knocked out by her, but while I was impressed by her rich sonorous voice, I thought her phrasing was a little stiff and without much character. I didn't keep that opinion for long.

“A year later, she was in the landmark Peter Seller's production”

of Handle's Julius Caesar. She played the son of Pompey, whom Caesar has beheaded. The two areas of rage that Hunt sang are among the most memorable

areas Handle ever wrote, but I'd never heard them sung

with such torment and such rage. She was hairasing, and until she died at only 52 at the height of her career, she never failed to be hairasing, whether in comedy or tragedy, in Bach, Handle or Mozart, or as some of the great operatic heroines,

a fierce but tragic Carmen, and barrio's noble and tragic Queen Dido, to the blaze, yet poignant, mortal Wilson, in the world premiere of John Harbison's The Great Gatsby, the role of her met debut. Near the end of her life, she was singing

her husband Peter Liebrison's haunting Neruda songs, composed for her. She seemed to take in and explore every aspect of a role and a score. Her recordings are still being reissued.

The latest is a beautifully remastered version of an album called Handle Arias, mainly Arias from one of the composers last or atorios, the adora, his only dramatic work set in early Christian times, and in his lifetime, one of his biggest flops.

Hunt Liebrison sings the role of the Christian Martyr the adora's solicitous friend Irene, who has some of Handle's most spiritual music. As we throw these terms, the moon had once the great rushings of hand, so from the earth was told to the moon, read the song's name,

"This album also includes one of Handle's most famous Arias,"

"Ombra my fool, never was shade so dear."

Surely the greatest love song ever written to a tree.

♪ Can I love you ♪ ♪ So far in you ♪ ♪ And love my fool ♪

♪ And the sweet love in me ♪

♪ Can I love you ♪ ♪ So far in you ♪ ♪ Can I love you ♪ ♪ So far in you ♪ ♪ And the sweet love in me ♪

♪ Can I love you ♪ ♪ So far in you ♪ ♪ So far in you ♪

“I was lucky to be able to hear Lorraine Hunt Liebrison in person.”

It's tragic that she was with us for such a short time.

Yet she's almost as miraculous on this recording as she was on stage. Lloyd Schwartz reviewed a newly remastered album of Handle Arias sung by Lorraine Hunt Liebrison, accompanied by Harry Bicket and the orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. Lloyd's new book of poems is called "Arter Schnabel" and Joseph Sigetti. Play Mozart at the Frick Collection, April 4, 1948, and other poems.

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