Nick Offerman gets an emotional arc

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“At NPR, we are here for your right to be curious about the world around you.”

Follow shortwave wherever you get your podcasts because the more you ask, the more interesting the world gets. This is Fresh Air, I'm Terry Gross. Our guest is actor writer and woodworker Nick Offerman, his best known for his role in parks and recreation, and for his Emmy Award-winning role in the show The Last of Us. His new series, Margot's Got Money Troubles, is based on the book of the same name.

He spoke with fresh airs and rebalt an auto. The new Apple TV series, Margot's Got Money Troubles, is about Margot, a bright college freshman, who illid visibly has an affair with her English professor. She ends up getting pregnant and decides to have and keep the baby.

“Margot herself was raised by a single mom, her dad, Jinks, played by Nick Offerman,”

was a popular professional wrestler when she was born and has been pretty absent from her life. Now, his career is in the past and his injuries have caused him chronic pain. He turns to pain killers, then heroin, and then rehab. He's there when he hears about Margot and decides to come back into her life after years of being away.

In this scene, he comes to Margot's door and meets the baby for the first time.

Margot is played by El Fanning. Eric Grandpa, everyone says he's beautiful, so I'm going with that. He's the most beautiful. Well, I'm brought you a check.

“So, look, Mike, it's not much, but I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to call you back.”

Where are you staying? Well, for tonight, I got to figure and then start tomorrow. Guess if I got to figure that too, can I hold him? He's a little fussy. Hey, little man.

He likes you. Wow. Jinks moves in with Margot, the baby, and Margot's roommate, creating an unconventional family unit. Jinks is there for Margot in a way he wasn't in the past, but the pain and struggle of addiction persist. Nick Offerman played the beloved character Ron Swanson in the comedy series Parks and Recreation.

He won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actor in a Drama Series for his role in a heartbreaking episode of the series The Last of Us. In addition to Margot's got money troubles, he stars in the Netflix show Death By Lightning. Nick Offerman, welcome back to Fresh Air. Thank you so much for having me. The series is great and you're so good in it.

You said that playing this role really scared you. What was so scary about it? Well, I suppose, you know, I've had a really lucky career. I've gotten to work a lot, which for an actor, just getting jobs is wild. The numbers are so stacked against you, and you know, with the good fortune of getting to work consistently,

I also, you know, fell into a certain category of like dependable supporting actor, you know, journeymen, bus driver, slash plumber, you know, slash guy, manning the grill. And so one thing I haven't been called on to do a lot of is have like a complicated emotional relationship or or have an inner emotional arc that we want the audience to care about. And so that part of the show, not only having two of those relationships with with L fanning and with Michelle Fyfer,

not only having that for the first time kind of, but to have them with these like world class, Mount Rushmore, like a list actresses,

you know, it was like, well, I wanted a challenge. Here you go, buddy. Well, I've read when you're preparing for a role, you think a lot about facial hair, maybe all of your hair,

And I imagine too, you think a lot about physicality, like how would this character carry

himself, what does he look like physically?

“Can you talk about what you thought about in terms of your look when you were playing jinx?”

Who was that, you know, had been a wrestler, a little pasted prime? I love transforming. One thing I love about a job is sinking into the material deeply enough that sometimes the audience will say, oh, I didn't realize that's the guy from the other thing. And that's sort of my favorite compliment to get if I get one. And so, because I'm blessed with a healthy crop of facial hair and hair on my head,

that's kind of just my jumping off point, like, okay, which version of Lon Cheney will I bring to bat in this game? And then also a work with a great trainer named Grant Roberts to make my body look more like a former pro wrestler and then head the incredible opportunity to train with Chavo Guerrero, who's a real pro wrestler from the Guerrero family. And he's just this incredible teacher. He did the show glow, he did the iron claw. And so he's become kind of the Hollywood go to guy and he was just a wonderful teacher.

I mean, the fact that I was able to do all my own wrestling in the show and never once go to the hospital

is a great credit to him and our stunt coordinator John Epstein. Yeah, you're shown wrestling in flashbacks. You serve on video tapes and then you wrestle at an expo for wrestlers and you even wrestle Nicole Kidman's character. Yeah, that was in the modern parlance of not on my bingo card. Wrestling Nicole Kidman was definitely not on there. Now, you do a lot of acting with a baby and then show holding a baby actually comforting a baby because your character jinks

is surprisingly tender and really great with the baby and able to calm the baby down. I was thinking, wow, Nick Arrimon is really acting with this baby a lot. And that seemed like a very good little actor. Can you talk about acting with the baby?

I love babies and animals and I don't know, I'm lucky that I have an affinity with creatures.

So I loved that that was sort of part of the character. As you can imagine, you know, when you work with babies in television and film,

“you have to have at least a couple babies so that you can switch them out.”

They can't work that long in general, but also if one of them is having a bad day or some gas, you can swap in a happier baby or not. And so we had these two really heroic babies named River and Graham, and they were incredibly. I mean, these two kids who started working with us at six months of age. I mean, they were just astonishing. We would finish these dramatic scenes with Ellen Michelle,

and everyone would say, "Good Lord, did you see what that baby did?" They really were scene-stealers, and so I just loved working with them. I want to play another scene from this series. Here, Jinks is at Margo's apartment with the baby. He's cleaned the place. He's trying to help out. And he decides to ask Margo if he can move in.

Again, Margo is played by L fanning. Susie mentioned that you might be looking for a roommate, and I need a place to live. Oh, well. I mean, I can't contribute a ton for rent. The divorce wiped me out, but I can cook and I can clean. And the idea of getting to spend time with you last time.

Okay. I think I got my answer. It's not... I don't mean we do need a roommate, and it would be nice to spend time with you. But... I know the statistics on drug addicts.

And if you were going to stay here, you would have to be clean. If you were going to be around, Booty. Margo, I am clean. I am the one who checked myself into rehab.

“Why me? Why don't you ask Andrea or one of the boys?”

I check their Instagrams. I know they're financially stable. My therapist thinks that the stress of those relationships might cause me to relapse. And the idea of getting to your own place? That would definitely relapse. I mean, there would be no one to perform sanity for.

Your character jinx is a hulking guy used to being physical,

but it's his wrestling that has brought him pain and in response to that chronic pain. He starts using pain killers and his addiction goes on from there. How did you tackle that part of the role?

“Did you talk with wrestlers or people who've dealt with chronic pain or those dealing with drug addiction?”

I did. I mean, sadly, in my business as well as wrestling and pro sports, I sadly have a couple of friends who went through the exact same trajectory of inadvertently getting hooked on opioids. And then having that uncover tendency for addiction that led to heroin use. And so I have dealt with that and have some knowledge of it from being adjacent to it.

And a lot of wrestlers and former wrestlers live in Los Angeles or Las Vegas.

So it was easy to get a lot of research and talk to these people about their interior lives. And I can, I mean, I thankfully have not had such addiction problems in my life, but I've certainly dabbled in indulgence in ways that like, I've learned lessons over the years of like, well, this is fun. Let me try partying this way for a week and then learning, okay, I see how.

If I don't stop that this, I will ruin a lot of my life. The thing that's so heartbreaking about jinx is that he's trying so hard, but the audience can tell that he's struggling. You know, he's trying to make up for the past, but he's not sure if he can do it.

“Can you talk about trying to play that part of jinx?”

I struggle. Yeah, I mean, it's tied to your last question. I'm a human, I'm a human male. And so that if you're honest with yourself that, you know, brings a certain lesser batting average than perhaps we'd like to believe.

I have incredible parents, my mom and dad are really great citizens.

I have three great siblings and we all, you know, we're all doing our best. We've got school teachers and librarians, nurses and actors. But we all, you know, in each and our own way, we emulate our mom and dad. You know, I'm living this crazy life, traveling the world and singing and dancing for people, but still trying to participate in the conversation of values that my mom and dad

sort of imparted in us. I have a very successful marriage. I've been with my wife Megan Malali for 26 years. I think we've been married 23. And, you know, being with somebody for 26 years is definitely good to include some some stumbles

and some pitfalls and sometimes when I've had to say, wow, I've handled that horribly. Please forgive me, you know. So, I have, I'm a person who's honest with himself, so I have a wealth of opportunities to draw upon for, for jinks to find his feelings in. I want to ask about the show, the last of us.

It's a post-apocalyptic drama about people who've survived a global pandemic. That it's wife out most of the population. And a lot of other stuff happens after that. You won an Emmy for outstanding guests actor in a drama series for your role as Bill. Can you describe your character, Bill?

Sure. I mean, Bill was, you know, a survivalist, also known as a prepper. He was a brilliant engineer. And so, when this sort of viral pandemic wiped out so much of the population, Bill was among the few people who was very happy.

“He doesn't want to see other people, I think, because then he has to face himself.”

And so, he's created this wonderful fortress of a world where he can live sustainably. And so, Bill is this guy who inadvertently happens upon some love in his life. And I think he's taken by surprise just as much as the audience is.

It's got some wonderful moments of highs and lows and love and screaming fights.

“I want to play a quick scene from the last of us.”

It's near the beginning of the episode. It's kind of the meat cut as you are saying. Your character, Bill, was a survivalist before the pandemic and the aftermath. So, he's actually done quite well for himself. And one day, another survivor wanders onto your land into one of your traps. And, of course, your skeptical, the other character, Frank, is played by Murray Bartlett.

Boston is that way. You can make it by nightfall. I'm really hungry. Have it eaten in two days. Doesn't sound very long out loud, doesn't feel long. I'm letting you go, so go.

All right, like, first my name's Frank.

Oh, yeah. Here's the thing, Frank. If I feed you, then every bum you talk to about it is going to show up here looking for a free lunch. And this is not an orbs. Orbs didn't have free lunch was a restaurant.

I won't talk about it to any bums or hobos or vagabonds I promise. That's a short scene from the last of us.

“What was it like filming this episode, which was really like a film?”

You know, it traces a whole love story with your character, Bill and Frank, who finds you by chance. And you know, you fall in love and have this life together. The two of you, essentially. I was wondering what it was like filming this whole arc of a story. It was incredible.

I mean, it really did feel like a beautiful Sundance movie. And from the moment I got the script and I had Megan read it and to confirm she said, "Yeah, you're going to Calgary, buddy."

Because I first got asked to do it. I was completely unavailable when they wanted me.

But as soon as we read it, Megan said, "Yeah, you make yourself available." Also, it came with, they said, you know, and Frank is going to be Murray Bartlett. And the timing was such that we had just finished watching the first season of White Lotus. Just finished airing on which Murray was just so electrically fantastic. I like to say that it was like watching the Raiders of the Lost Ark and then getting an offer.

And they say, "You're going to have to fall in love with the guy, with the hat and the whip." And I just was like a holy cow. And so from the moment I got there, the entire production, HBO knew what they had going on. Everyone was treating the script with all the due reverence. Everyone understood that if we didn't screw it up, we had something very special on our hands.

Well, it's this wonderful story, you know, it's this post-apocalyptic landscape. And there are these two people who find connection, purpose, meaning and then, you know, loss to And your character, Bill, starts as someone completely closed off from others and from himself. And he opens up and I wonder what you drew on to play Bill. Someone who is so alone, but is finally seen by someone else.

It seems clear that some of the foundational qualities in Bill also describe Ron Swanson from Parks and Rec. A taciturn sort of solitary individual who puts a lot of effort into what he thinks is living right. He has a strong set of values and sort of personal credo. There's something to about these characters like Bill and Ron that they're so capable. And we're drawn to kind of the crack in it sometimes, like the crack in being so capable.

I mean, now you've made me think of as I'm watching Jinks unfold in my new show.

It's funny when I watch things like I can never enjoy them. I'm always watching, like I'm watching game tape of a sport.

Checking out my swing or whatever. And with Jinks, I keep thinking it's interesting that I'm not more showy.

“That's what's occurring to me is like even when I'm wrestling or like ripping off my shirt or whatever.”

I think I feel like other actors would have put on more of a show and been more overtly kind of peacocking. And I think it's all connected to, I don't know, just my nature.

I'm glad that an audience is buying this, but man, why are you talking so slow?

“Why, like, give us, come on, turn it, turn it up all the way from one to two for crying out loud.”

My guest is Nick Offerman. His new TV show is called Margo's Got Money Troubles. We'll be back after a short break. I'm Ann Marie Baldenado and this is Fresh Air. Hi, this is Molly C.V. Nusper, digital producer at Fresh Air. And this is Terry Gross, host of the show. One of the things I do is write the weekly newsletter, and I'm a newsletter fan. I read it every Saturday after breakfast. The newsletter includes all the week shows, staff recommendations,

and Molly picks timely highlights from the archive. It's a fun read. It's also the only place where we tell you what's coming up next week, and exclusive. So subscribe at WHy.org/Fresh Air and look for an email from Molly every Saturday morning.

“Now, many listeners will know you from your role as Ron Swanson in this show, Parks and Recreation.”

I want to play a quick scene from the show when that shows Ron being Ron. I'm here as Ron turning a wall sconce into wedding rings for the characters, Leslie and Ben. It's not rocket science. I removed the sconce fired up my grandfather's torch. He did up the pieces in a cast iron bucket, liquify the metal, poured into a mold. Obviously, keep it over a low flame to achieve a nice temper.

Cooled it in antifreeze and just forged and shaped the rings. Any more on with a crucible and a settling torch in a cast iron waffle maker could have done the same. Whole thing only took me about 20 minutes. People who buy things are suckers. That's a scene from Parks and Recreation. It's a beloved show. You play a beloved character.

“Can you tell the story of how you got the part of Ron?”

I was getting pretty bummed. I was in my late 30s and I had had a few instances where writers took a shine to me.

TV writers and they would write me a part in their pilot and it never worked out.

Then finally, we were watching Rain Wilson on the office, who's a dear old friend. I said, "If I'm ever going to get a shot, I think it's going to be something like Dwight on the office." Sure enough, Dwight's cousin, Mose Schroot, played by Mike Scher, who created Parks and Rec with Greg Daniels of the office. They looked at me for another role that role never happened, but they took a shine to me, thankfully. And wanted to put me in as Amy's boss, this guy Ron Swanson, who thank goodness.

They really wanted a slow talker and still NBC, of course, in their corporate wisdom, said, "I don't think so."

Like he's weird. We've never been able to wrap our heads around Nick Offerman. Let's keep looking.

So for five months, since they first read me as Ron, they read every guy under the moon. I mean, everybody I met was like, "Oh, my God. I went in for the greatest part. It's Amy's boss on our new show." And I was like, "We're breaking." I would sob inwardly, like, "Oh, cool. Sounds good, man. See you later." So finally, it came down to where there were just a couple of us. Amy came to town. They were getting ready to start shooting. She moved here from New York to LA, and they brought me and another guy in to improvise with Amy as the final audition.

And they taped them, and then turned them into NBC.

And I did my best. And Ron and Leslie were really born in that room that day, because I'd never worked with Amy before.

I'd known her for a long time, and was crazy about her. But like she was like a comedy butterfly, hopped up on uppers, like just comedy, dynamoing around the room. And I had no choice, but to sit there, and withstand her, and then say like one pithy thing at the end. And as though I had a choice, as though that was my comedic brilliance, of just the only physical possibility. And they said, "Amazing. What collaboration?"

So that went great. And then Mike called me the next day to say that I got the job, and that they had only turned in my tape. They didn't even turn in the other guy's tape.

I mean, I'll be forever in their debt.

“I want to play a scene from this series finale. Perhaps one of the best series finale is of all time.”

Your character, Ron, has told Leslie, played by Amy Poler, that he wants to find a new job. He wants new purpose. And Leslie is one of the people that knows him well enough to help him figure it out. Here's Ron, meeting Leslie, at a national park that Leslie established. I got to tell you Leslie, establishing this national park right next to Pony is quite an accomplishment. This is a fine piece of land you saved.

Thank you, Ron. You want to run it? The superintendent of Bryce Canyon retired, and I convinced the superintendent of this park to transfer. Shuffle a few things around. Point is someone needs to take care of this place now. Thought it should be you. I... Well, first of all, I would be working for the federal government.

Your job would be to walk around the land alone. You live in the same town you've always lived in. You'd work outside. You'd talk to bears. Next argument.

“There must be dozens of people gunning for this job. I wouldn't want you to ruffle any feathers. Am I even qualified?”

Well, a few people might be annoyed, but they'll get over it. And as far as your qualifications, you're Ron Swanson. Stop being a dummy in accept. I wonder where I start. Oh, today. I already accepted for you. I still remember how to forge your signature. Let's go meet your staff. Pony National Park Rangers. This is Ron Swanson. Your new superintendent and boss.

Rangers. My name is Ronald Ulysses Swanson. Your job and mine is to walk this land and make sure no one harms it. If you show up on time, speak honestly and treat everyone with fairness, we will get along just fine. Though hopefully not too fine as I'm not looking for any new friends, end of speech. Well said.

Thank you, Leslie. You're welcome, Ron. That's a scene from the series finale of Parks and Recreation. Of course, we had to cut it off before Ron goes out in the canoe. Which is always gets me a little bit teary. Fans of this show love this show and they want you all to still be in touch with each other.

Are you still all in touch with each other?

Well, Megan and I never watched anything a second time.

I hadn't heard that since it aired 10 years ago. So I hope you're happy with the warm tears that are rolling down my cheeks here in my guest room. And the cast does have a text thread that has never stopped. As you can imagine, it's mostly congratulations and happy birthdays and so forth with a lot of sincerity and affection, and also a good amount of smart assery and insulting the actor Jim O'Hare.

Who played Jerry Gary?

“And who's character? Yeah, who always do the running joke with that everybody made fun of?”

Yeah, he's the E or he couldn't be a sweeter, you know, a more wonderful guy.

And it's just, it's a joke will never, will never drop.

Like, it was a cast full of wonderful talented actors and also Jim O'Hare. It's the running bit. If you're just joining us, my guest is Nick Offerman. His TV shows include Parks and Recreation, making it the last of us, by Lightning and his latest Margo's got money troubles.

We'll talk more after a break. This is fresh air. Will you grew up in Illinois outside of Chicago? Can you describe where you grew up? Yeah, a really nice, just humble little farm town, a couple thousand people. And it's, now it's exploded. I can never keep the number straight, but it was like a few thousand growing up and now it's pushing maybe 20,000, like it's really gotten big.

I come from a wonderful farming family. My dad's dad was the mayor for a while back in the 80s. My mom's family are still farming. And so I grew up getting to work on their farms and like just really great, hard-working salt to the earth people working hard and then trying to play baseball and have a good time

when they hang up the tractor keys.

It did. I had an ember through my childhood that when you could start doing plays in high school, I did.

So I had something inexplicable that I just wanted to entertain people. And eventually when I found out you could go to theater school and that you could get paid to be in plays in Chicago That just was, I said that's obviously what I have to do. And I did. Everybody in my town, including the guidance counselor, they all said, no, I said I want to be an actor and they said, I don't believe that's one of your options. I don't think you can get there from here.

And I said, well, I'm going to try.

“Well, you are a classically trained as an actor. What kind of parts did you want?”

Like what were young Nick Offerman's dream roles? In my classical training, I was terrible. I hadn't figured out acting yet, so I couldn't get cast in college. I had a really hard time, which is why I became really good at building scenery and stage combat and things like that. Because I really wanted to be part of making theater, but apparently performing dialogue on stage was not my avenue, at least yet. And so, my dream was to just get in the shows. I loved Shakespeare. I loved the check-off pieces they were doing, the comedies of Joe Orton, the plays of Sam Shepard.

I still do this day, like to aspire to just do any piece of great writing. Was carbon tree then your day job for most of those early years in acting?

“And what kinds of things were you doing? Were you building sets, but also making furniture? Were you building anyone's kitchen? Like what kind of stuff did you do?”

I had already worked as a carpenter, framing houses as a teenager. And so, here I was, you know, a clumsy, not good at acting, acting student.

And this great guy named Ken Egan was running the scene shop and it was my first beautiful big carpentry shop. And it was just like a wonderland where I something sparked in me.

And I guess it was in the class, you know, all the acting students had to take a class. And we all had to like hammer a nail or, you know, sort of begin showing what we could do with tools. And it was rudimentary enough that I could do it, you know, with a flourish. I then moved to LA. I started getting acting jobs, looking my mid 20s. I started to figure it out. I got some nice parts and plays. I got cast in a couple movies.

And I was surprised to learn that it was not as good of a theater town, not nearly as Chicago. And it didn't have the same scenery set up in Chicago. Everything was connected. Whereas in LA, everything was much more mercenary and union.

“And I was told, like, you have to build scenery or be a stuntman or be an actor. You can't do all. You can't wear all these hats like you didn't Chicago.”

And so I still needed to make a living with my tools. And so I switched to building like decks and cabins and people's yards. And there's such a strong craftsman and mission influence in Southern California. So the things I was building would often be kind of timber frame and post-in beam. And that is how I accidentally backed into fine furniture, joinery, was by doing post-in beam structures. You've written a lot of best-selling books and your latest is called Little Wood Jucks.

And it's a how-to guide for woodworking projects that are safe for the whole family to do. Do you remember some of the early projects that you did either alone or with others? You know, your earliest memories of woodworking? I do. I mean, they were projects with my dad, mainly my mom and dad. We're really little house on the prairie. We all worked in the garden. We all helped cook and clean and repair our clothes. And, you know, maintain our vehicles. Like at the time, it was just normal domestic living in our little town, you know.

And so, my book Little Wood Jucks is to try and encourage as many families as possible. And it's secretly, it's for the Little Wood Jucks and all of us. It's not just grown-ups and kids, because most of the grown-ups I know also don't know how to use tools.

All of your life can be curated by app or by pressing a button on your technology. And when we do that, we give away our agency to these corporations. And in our lifetimes, that is allowed them to make them all of less quality by design so that they can sell more of them to us. It's true of our food. Nobody knows who their farmers are anymore. And nobody knows if their food is any good. If we don't maintain any sort of oversight,

then companies are never going to say, let's make sure we keep this real healthy.

Like, let's make sure we make these eggs as nutritious as possible and these chickens are happy. Of course not. And so, in my world, what I can say to people is, I make things out of wood. My company makes things out of wood. We pay them, this is four people, we pay a living wage, and you can get a dining table or a three-legged stool or a set of coasters that will last you forever that's of an incredibly high quality. And we know where our trees came from. Well, speaking of little woodchucks, full disclosure, about a year ago, my husband and daughter try to wood project together. They picked out wood. They started working on it.

Then let's just say they had words and kind of lust patients with each other. And in all honesty, there's a half-finished wood project in our basement.

Do you have any advice for at times when working on a project together gets challenging or, you know, when you are younger and you're working with your dad on things.

“Like, how did he handle frustration between the two of you?”

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, a huge lesson in the wood shop is go in knowing you're going to screw it up. Even those of us that are experts added, we buy extra wood, we buy scrap wood to start on because we know we're going to make bad cuts. And so the projects in our book, they're these great beginner projects that just involve like gluing a couple pieces of wood together or making a box kite out of sticks and cork and paper.

Even those, you're totally going to screw up like anything that is worth doing, you're going to mess up your first few tries.

And so you're going to find out what what people strengths are. Some of your kids might be great with a hammer, some are definitely going to be terrible with a hammer. But they might be really good with a tape measure or addition and subtraction or band aids or baking cookies. Like, but only by engaging in the world and getting our hands dirty, do we find out what our calling is? And you know, I mean, when I was growing up and my dad would lose patience, he did a great job of sticking with me.

“And just allow each other to mess up because more often than not, that's what we're going to do where human beings.”

Nick Offerman, thank you so much for joining us. My pleasure. Nick Offerman spoke with fresh airs and Maria Boldenado. He stars on the new series, Margo's got money troubles. His latest book is called Little Wood Shucks.

I have to take a short break. John Powers will review Dan Levy's new Netflix comedy series Big Mistakes. This is fresh air. Big Mistakes is a new Netflix comedy series by and starring Dan Levy, who co-created and co-starred in Shits Creek. That's SCH, ITT, apostrophe S. The story concerns a squably New Jersey family headed by a mother played by Laurie Metcalf that accidentally gets involved with gangsters. Our critic at large John Powers says that while the show is more formulaic than Shits Creek, it kept him laughing.

If you ask the psychologist, they'll tell you that humor is a defense mechanism, a buffer between ourselves and the painfulness of reality.

“I'm not sure that's actually true. I think of laughter as something transcendent.”

I have to admit that the world has gotten so alarming that I'd rather watch something funny than the news. I laughed a whole lot watching Big Mistakes, a new half-hour Netflix crime comedy from Dan Levy of Shits Creek fame, who co-created the series with Rachel Senate. Set an affictional New Jersey City, this story about an offbeat family that finds itself entangled with the mob, is a wild and woolly inversion of Shits Creek. Where that much adored shows started out cartoonish and grew warmer in more humane. Big Mistakes starts as a frolic, then morphs into a farce that grows more than a little hellish.

That's Abby Quinn, who has the smug, small soul deficiency of a political operative.

“She clings to her mother's side like a barnacle. Things are more fraught with Linda's other kids.”

Levy plays Nikki, a fussy, anxious, closeted gay minister, who hides his boyfriend from his parishioners. Nikki is forever bickering with this sister Morgan. That's Taylor Ortega, a chaos-inducing school teacher with a real mouth on her. She's got a puppyish boyfriend, she doesn't adore. When Linda orders Nikki and Morgan to get some jewelry for their dying grandmother, they commit a small foolish crime that crazily leaves them behold into mobsters. Even as they try to deal with everyday life, their grandmother's funeral, their mother's campaign, Sunday sermons.

They're forced to do laughably dodgy missions that takes them from strip clubs and cattle auctions to prisons and private jets. While all this has Nikki positively hissing with panic, Morgan digs the excitement, even growing attracted to a turkish crook, played by Boren Kuzum. Whose presence may make you think of the film Annora? Here, Nikki's in a tizzy, because he's being tailed by a gangster, and shows up at his mother's front door in the pouring rain. Come on. Come on. It's probably locking the door.

Since Susan got next garage got broken into a couple of weeks ago, and all of her kids bikes got taken. Oh, where's your umbrella in this rain? I can't lose my son and my mother on the same day. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Today has not brought out the best in me. I could admit that. How are you doing?

I'm not good. I'm not. I know.

I just want a minute alone with my first board.

Well, technically that would be wonderful. We do not talk about adoption. In this home, I birthed you emotionally, which is just as painful. You're freezing. Why are we standing? You're telling me.

Now, it's hardly groundbreaking for a comedy to throw ordinary people into the shark-infested waters of crime.

“You're what matters in pop culture is less to originality than verb and commitment.”

Although big mistakes isn't about much of anything, and the gangster plot is won't only implausible. It revels in its amusingly awkward situations and clever, catchy dialogue. Big mistakes makes being frantic, funny, in a way that another news show the audacity does not. Levy gives his all as Nicky, whose body language betrays emotional blockage, but whose face is a menagerie of stressed out ticks and grimaces. A sincere man of God, the show respects religious faith, he's a good, orderly person, who's easily driven crazy by those who aren't orderly or good.

This means he's perfectly paired with Morgan. She's the sort of shoot from the hip trouble maker I usually find annoying. But here, in a career-making performance, or Taga gives their scenes a real zinc. Her run-a-muck charm plays perfectly off Levy's tension. They drive each other bats as only family can.

In a way, each embodies a side of their mother.

It's another memorable role for Metcalf, an astonishingly gifted comedian, whose wildly expressive face can in a micro-second,

go from a comedy mask to a tragedy mask and back again. Her Linda is the show's best character, a self-made woman who's at once principled, hard-working, sexually open, and not a little loopy. She rides on emotional extremes, but we like her because she's savvy enough to know it. Now, like other comedic crime shows such as the low-down, and how to get to heaven from Belfast, this eight-part show is best when not focusing on its underworld plot. The reason to watch is the bi-play between the family members who bubble with the acolytes function, and the moments when the hijinks veer into delirium.

“I think you'll enjoy the late night visit to the cemetery, and Linda wearing the ugliest face paint of all time.”

But I'm not so sure how you'll feel about the Rocky Mountain oysters. John Powers reviewed the new Netflix comedy series Big Mistakes. Tomorrow on Fresh Air, my guest will be flee.

After recording many albums with the Red Hot Chili Peppers, the band he co-founded, he has his first solo album.

We'll talk about why he was afraid to go home when he was growing up, how the chili peppers tried to be the wildest band ever, and how music saved him, a hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show, I'll get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at NPR Fresh Air. Fresh Air is executive producer Sam Brigger, our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham.

Monique Nazareth, Thaya-Challener, Susan Yucundi, Annabellman, and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly C.V. Nesper. Roberta Shorerock directs the show. Our co-host is Tanya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.