Stephen Colbert / Remembering MA Rep. Barney Frank

What happens if we refund tariffs? Why are grocery so expensive?

“And NPR, we stand for your right to be curious, because the forces shaping our world can”

be hard to see. Follow NPR's Planet Money wherever you get your podcasts and start seeing how the economy really works. This is Fresh Air, I'm TV critic David Bean Kooley. Last night Steven Koobear said goodbye to his CBS series The Late Show.

A show he's hosted since 2015, and which will not continue without him. But in getting to that job, Steven Koobear has compiled a fairly unusual career path, as both a writer and performer of comedy. Steven Koobear loved both from the start, especially comic improv. He started out as Steve Karel's understudy for the touring company of Chicago's

second city, and teamed with him on some of his early short-lived TV work. Most infamously, on ABC's The Dana Carvey Show in 1996. That outrageous comedy series included animated shorts starring a pair of superheroes called The Ambiguously Gay Duo. Koobear co-wrote those cartoons and provided the voice of Ace, one of the costume crime fighters.

The voice of his sidekick, Gary, was provided by Steve Karel. After the Dana Carvey Show was canceled, the Ambiguously Gay Duo was picked up by Saturday Nightclub. Look both ways before crossing the street.

And always hold hands with your buddy.

The buddy system should be used in all potentially unsafe situations, like swimming, bike riding, and showering. Koobear joined comedy centros the Daily Show in 1997 when it was hosted by Craig Kilburn. Koobear, like the show, really blossomed when John Stewart became host in 1999 and made the show more political.

Koobear played himself, but in the guise of a conservative correspondent, improvising in character from a right wing point of view. But, Stephen, you're probably being recorded as saying, doesn't all this government's

“five-month citizens mean losing our basic freedoms?”

Of course not. It means gaining limits on those freedoms, something Uncle Sam likes to call Freedom Plus. As that character, also named Stephen Koobear. He reported for comedy central from national political conventions in 2000 and 2004, and eventually got his own spin-off series, the Koobear Report, which ran from 2005 to 2014.

In the last year of that series, a campaign was launched to get Koobear thrown off the

air, which he discussed on his own show, as always, in character.

But folks, I'm not going to lie, this was close. We almost lost me. I'm never going to take me for granted ever again. But Koobear persevered and found an even more powerful platform. In 2015, he was selected for the Late Show job when Letterman retired and dropped his conservative

persona to host this CBS Network show as himself. The next year, in 2016, he hosted a live election night cable special on Showtime, subtitled democracies series finale. It was planned and written with the expectation that Hillary Clinton would defeat Donald Trump in the national election.

But as the evening war on, even though the race had yet to be called, Koobear reacted in real time to the surprising voting trends.

“I think we can agree that this has been an absolute exhausting, bruising election for everyone.”

That's right. And it has come to an ending that I did not imagine. We all now feel the way Rudy Giuliani looks. Seeing this election, seeing this election, you know, people all around the world. I mean, she's going off to Portugal.

Everybody's going to sing has America lost its mind.

And the answer is evidently back off, buddy.

We got 300 million guns and we're kind of stressed right now. By every metric, I mean, we are more divided than ever as a nation. After 11 years as host, Stephen Colbert closed shop on the Late Show this week, cleverly and memorably. On Wednesday's show, for example, he finally answered his own Colbert question air, with

different celebrities coming on stage to pose each question. Even when finally shining the spotlight on himself, he found a way to include and engage others. And Bruce Springsteen closed that night's show by singing streets of Minneapolis, using

Larry Gross has interviewed and been interviewed by Stephen Colbert several times over the years.

“To honor his reign on the Late Show, we revisiting their conversation from November 2016,”

which took place just before his live show time special. At that time, he had been hosting the Late Show for about a year. They began with an excerpt of the opening monologue from the night before. And it's been a very good week for Donald Trump. His poll numbers are up, Hillary's email scandal is relevant again, and he just got

his second newspaper endorsement.

Is it the journal? Is it the post? No. It's the crusader, the political voice of white Christian America. Yes, Donald Trump has been endorsed by the Ku Klux Klan newspaper.

We finally answer the question, "What's white and white and white all over?" I don't know about you, I don't know about you. But when I first heard this, I was like, "What took you so long?" Was the Klan on the fence? I don't know, maybe Jill Stein, maybe Jefferson Davis, not sure we're going to

endorse this time. Well, I want to play another clip from the late show, this is from October 28th, and this was after Megan Kelly and Newt Gingrich had the big dust up on her show, because he accused her of being fascinated with sex and not caring about public policy after she had asked about allegations of Donald Trump's sexual predatory behavior.

And she responded by saying that she's fascinated by the protection of women, so again,

this is about him accusing her of not caring about public policy, and here's what you had

to say. Well, the thing is, uh, Megan Kelly file isn't talking about fun time bedroom, we'll be making. She's talking about assault. Oh, wait, unless Newt doesn't know the difference, maybe no one gave him the talk.

Hold on, let's do this. Newt, sweetheart? You're growing up so fast. In fact, you're 73. The body's changing, you've probably noticed some strange new hair growing on your earlobes.

It's perfectly natural.

You're old enough to finally learn about the birds and the bees and the consent.

You see, what a man has special feelings for a woman and he wants to give her a special hug. He asks her a special question. You up? But grabbing a lady, because your TV star is not sex, it's assault. The fun fact, assault is a matter of public policy, because it's illegal, even if you

use tic-tax. I hope that clears things up, buddy. I would explain to you what sex is, but then I'd have to picture you doing it. That's Stephen Colbert, that's really like hilarious.

“Can you take us a little bit through the process of coming up with that sketch?”

In the morning pitch meeting, someone said, "Did you hear what a new day last night?" And I said, "Now what was it?" They told me what he did, "Oh my gosh, what an interesting, emotional moment for him and for her." You saw Megan Kelly in the video, you see Megan Kelly sort of really throw up her armor

and go, "All right. This is how you're going to behave." It turned from what could have been an interview with ease to one where she was deeply armored and shot a bar at him about, "I'll let you deal with your, I'll let you go so you can deal with your anger issues."

And it became an emotional moment rather than an informational moment. And I really, really, that was very interesting to me. So in addition to trying to be funny and entertain your audience, do you feel like you're also trying to make an argument with your comedy that, "Look, look at this election,

“look at how important it is, here's how I feel about the candidates."”

I don't think I've been subtle about how I feel about Donald Trump. So it's less of an argument and more of a look at the flaming carcass shambling tortoise and we should probably not touch that thing, you know, look at its rabbit, don't touch it. But that's not the same thing as making an argument against him or for Hillary Clinton,

I think people's hesitancy about Hillary Clinton is completely reasonable.

We just have to be in extraordinary circumstances. Stephen Colbert, speaking to Terry Gross in 2016, "more after a break, this is fresh air." Let's get back to Terry's 2016 interview with Stephen Colbert, who just ended his reign as host of his long-running late-night CBS talk show. This interview took place the year after he had transitioned from the Colbert rapport to

the late show with Stephen Colbert, and Terry asked him when he realized it was time to end the Colbert rapport. I didn't really want to model the behavior of Punditree anymore, because I thought it was a limiting on a certain level that I wanted to be able to do more than that character. I also didn't, I guess the word would be, I didn't respect my model anymore.

And what do you mean by that?

Well, people always said it was Bill, but it's Punditree in general, the sense of certainty

regardless of the facts that was embodied in the idea of truthiness.

“That was the thesis statement for the entire show, that how you feel is more important”

than what the facts are, and that the truth that you feel is correct is more important than anything that the facts could support, which we expressed in a very concise way on the show that we embodied it, satirically, though it's not really a new idea, and as you can see, it's been amplified in interesting ways since we went off the air. But I didn't just want to pay the game anymore.

That was a single thesis statement that we tried to remind ourselves of every day. I would, when in doubt, I would just sort of recite those mantras to myself about what is truthiness.

And I'm looking out for you, and because I'm looking out for you, I'm also looking over

your shoulder because I've got your back, and I have a special relationship with the audience that is. And it's only us. We're the only ones who get it.

“And if you agree with me, I love you, and please love you because I agree with you.”

And all those emotional ideas, I'd have to remind myself every day to stay in character, and I remind myself of them right before I went on stage every night, because I thought, well, you've come this far, why blow it now. And toward the end of the show, I started to think that my love of that game was diminishing to the point that I might actually blow the entire, I might actually drop the entire

China set one day because I just couldn't take playing that character anymore. Like accidentally drop it. Yeah, I guess so. Well, I began to feel like I was stumbling downhill with an armful of bottles, and that I couldn't actually keep up the discipline, because it took discipline to remind myself

every day to be the character, don't be yourself. And I began to wonder what would it be like to be me, and so I decided a couple of years before the show ended that I was going to end the show.

“And it was not because I didn't like it anymore.”

I still liked it, but I just thought, I'm not sure if I can actually keep this up. Uh, without hurting someone. Hurting someone? Yeah. What do you mean?

I don't know. It's a feeling. I thought maybe I would make some big mistake with the character, because he says he would say terrible things. And I got away with some of the terrible things he would say, or do because it was all filtered

through his mask, but if I didn't maintain the mask, it would just be me being terrible. And that's, and he would say hateful things or hurtful things. And I thought, well, if I, if I don't play this tightly, if I don't, if I don't hit the bell just right all the time, not that it was a perfect performance. What I mean is that if I didn't maintain this discipline and I felt my discipline slipping,

but I didn't maintain that discipline that it, I would simply slide into being like the thing that I was mocking. At what point did you know that you would be hosting the late show, like you'd made the decision to stop the Colbert Report before you knew. It no out of the sky.

It was, it was absolutely no part of my plans when I decided to end the Colbert Report. That happened literally years later. It was a complete surprise to me. It hadn't been, it hadn't been an ambition of mine. And I just been an enormous fan of Dave.

And so I had a great respect for what he had built, but when they called and said, okay,

So in that period, when you knew you were ending the Colbert Report and you didn't know what you were going to do next, what were you thinking about your future? Oh, I don't know. It'll be an actor, I guess. Oh, yeah, because I'm an actor.

“And that's how I started and that's what I was doing for 10 years.”

I was acting. Right, right. But so when you were offered late night, did you think, hmm, but I really wanted to act. I don't know if I want to be doing this.

Oh, yeah, I mean, you have to give that some thought, but I also knew that if someone wants to hire me or if I can get my own production company together or create my own project,

you can act anytime you want, you'll, this opportunity will never come again.

And I, and I, and I, I love a live audience. And I love the grind of every day. And I love the people I work with. And it gave me all the things that I loved and that was not a hard decision. Once I looked at that I could leave the thing that I didn't want to do anymore and still

keep all the aspects of it that gave me deep satisfaction every day. I mean, this, the, the release, the privilege it is to do a show about what just happened in the last 24 hours or the last hour, or the last half hour given the speed of the new cycle right now in front of a live studio audience, which is feels so happy to be there. With people that you love working with who are all pulling on the same rope is a, is a drug.

And as hard as it is, I get that great release at the end of the day to being in front of the audience. And to know that I can continue that with my friends was the greatest draw. And I also couldn't think of anything after the Colbert Report that would seem like a promotion other than taking over for Dave.

And so I said, what a fool I would be to not, to accept this incredible opportunity.

Because I can act till the day I die if I want to, but I can only do this now. When you started doing the late show as opposed to the Colbert Report and you were able to drop the Colbert Report persona, did you know what your authentic voice was going to be? The voice is like the actual Stephen Colbert was going to be because it's still have to have

like a bit of a persona as an entertainer on stage. I don't think so. I knew that it would be a little bit of a public discovery, you know, what's the, it's

“somebody else's joke, but life is like learning to play the violin in public.”

You don't know what you're doing until you do it. And I knew that there'd be a learning curve that had to happen in public on air. I would say that what I didn't anticipate was how much I would overcorrect for not doing the character. What do you mean?

I think, well, because I was not talking about politics, I wasn't doing the monologue on

the day's events when we first started.

I mean, I would still talk about what was happening, but it wasn't highly focused. It wasn't, it did not have intention, and I wasn't speaking all that honestly because I was attempting to do something different than I had done before. And the overcorrect, I would say, is that not realizing that through the character, I was actually speaking very honestly, and you were hearing my voice a lot of the time, you know.

I felt that way as a viewer. Yeah, there's a confessional aspect to wearing a mask. The same reason why it's easier to confess behind a screen to a priest than face to face. And so the character was a ten-year confession, perhaps indulging ego and appetite through the person of this character.

Then you go on stage as yourself and you're responsible for everything you say, and

“there's a natural, I think there's a natural inclination to pull your punch because you”

have to be responsible for what you're saying. You can't hide behind the mask, and also that if you talk about politics all the time, well, isn't that what that other guy did? Why would I, or talk about the news all the time? Well, isn't that how am I changing in any way?

And it took me, oh gosh, I would say, it took me almost half a year to realize that those two aren't mutually exclusive that you can have a highly opinionated, highly topical show as yourself and not essentially fall back into the basket of the Cold Bear rapport.

saying whatever's on my mind as quickly as I can and not worrying about that I'm playing

the same game. I know I'm not playing the same game, but it took me a little while to realize that the character was not in danger of re-emerging. Yeah, I was really glad it when you added more political satire at the top of the show. Yeah, me too.

It's much more enjoyable. And the audience enjoys it and it's more honest, actually, because it's what I consume all day. So you're doing comedy now, not behind the anchor desk, though sometimes you're doing the monologue behind the anchor desk.

But you're often... Yeah, I sit down there. It requires graphics and it requires a sustained argument I do it behind the desk. But sometimes you're doing it standing up and... Most of the time.

So what have you had to learn in terms of walking out and standing in front of the microphone figuring out what to do with your hands? That was easy. That part was that part was really fast. But to enjoy my time with it, that's the thing.

Seeing the smiles and the people in the front row unlocked the door for me and allowed me to really enjoy it. You've got to sincerely enjoy what you're doing or else the audience can sniff it. And it took me a few months to really enjoy standing there.

And as you can see, show first started, we did like three-minute opening monologues.

Now we do ten-minute openologues, because I don't want it to end. I want to stay there on stage with them. It seems to be one of the hard parts of doing an opening monologues. What to do when the audience is laughing? What to do when the audience is laughing?

“Yeah, do you say something to repeat the punch line?”

Do you just keep your hands in your pockets? Do you? Hydro-election. Yeah, what do you do? What do I do while the audience is laughing?

That is the hardest part of the job. What will I do? The audience is laughing, it's such a challenge. How is the show last night? It was so hard.

Why? The audience is laughing so much. I didn't know what to do with myself. What do you do? You have to do something.

You have to do something. You have to do something. You have to do something. You have to do something. You have to do something.

You have to do something. You have to do something. What does you do? You lean into it. It's a wind.

It's the greatest feeling in the world. What do you do? That's the easiest part of the job. You smile and you're happy that they're happy. That's it.

Get to the next joke. How do you ride that energy to the next joke? How then can I use what they've given me to give them a better rhythm, a better joke the next time around? How can I slide down the front face of their wave to give them better energy back?

It's like how can I make this a reciprocal relationship? How can I make this good, this moment feels good for them as it's feeling for me right now? What can I give back to them? Because comedy is about rhythm, it's like where you jump in on their laughter is really

maybe the only decision you're making and if you're really feeling it, it's not a decision at all. There's nothing to worry about while the audience is laughing.

“You have to wait for the right amount of decay of laughter before you come back in.”

Exactly. If this wasn't ready, I would graph it for you. You probably would. So you used to come in to make the nightly stage entrance doing a kick dance with your man leader John Patisse.

It was very manic. You've taken that down and knocked and you don't have to do it in the kick dance anymore. Can you talk about changing that? Yeah.

When the show first started I thought, well it's a giant space, it's a Broadway stage.

What kind of energy, what level of energy do I need to fill this space that is then sort of captured by the camera? Because I used to very much do a show that was for the camera that the audience got to witness. I feel like now I'm doing a show for the room that the camera is witness.

And that's a really big dose. Yeah. Yeah. And you really feel it when you're doing it. And my first choice was, well, air on the side of energy.

And then a certain point I realized, well, that actually doesn't translate over the camera. And the audience is just as energetic whether I do that or not.

“So I started eliminating things and said, what's left?”

What's left is you walking on stage and doing jokes. And so it was just airing on the side of giving the audience more, giving more energy, knowing I had enough energy for that room. What you learn eventually and this is something I knew sort of intellectually, but I had forgotten instinctually is that you don't need high energy to fill a large space.

You can bend an entire room by bending a paper clip if you've got the focus of the room.

And to accept the audience, that you are there focus, you don't need to do high kicks. You just need to be there, present for them, and then you've filled the entire room. Isn't it really for you to be doing interviews as a self as opposed to in character, trying

“to figure out what your character's take on that person would be?”

They're very different. It's not a relief. I enjoy knowing something about their subject. I'll tell you that. I can have Neil Tyson on and know something about...

Right, because your character was... Terry Exploration. Yeah. No, my character was a straw man for whatever, for whoever was on. I was a massive ignorance, and for you to knock down, it should you choose to.

I used to be alarmed that people would not knock them down. Someone would come on and they would call into question the ascendancy of whatever particular figure of the religious right, and I would say, "Well, you know all the founding fathers were fundamentalist Christians." Then they wouldn't correct me and it'd go, "Oh, good Lord, what's going to happen now?"

Now, I've miseducated America again, "I won, I don't want a win!"

I didn't know he's a lot of win, but my character always wanted to win.

The biggest differences is that I'm not there to win against my guest, and I am not... I'm letting them talk for more than seven seconds at a time, where I was living by the old Joe Scarborough rule on the old show, which is if your guest talks for more than seven seconds at a time, you've lost control of your show, and I don't do that anymore. I'm so happy to hear the stories that they have to tell.

“Now, the danger there when I first started the show is that then you have to bring some”

opinion to the table. Again, it was like a matter of over-correction, the show first started. I guess I'll have no punch. There's a great release, there's a great gift of exhaustion that comes on you from doing a show like this over and over and over again, that you actually lose all those second

thoughts, and then you're allowed to sort of be yourself with your guests finally. And again, about six months into the show, I don't have any energy left to overthink this. I just have to do what instinctually feels good to me, and every aspect of the show

and got better and got easier, and became more like me because I didn't have time to think

about it. I didn't have the energy to think about it anymore. I'll tell you who actually gave me hint about that is that one of my dear friends of Steve Higgins, who has found an answer and sort of sidekick, and I've known him for many years, and he's a lovely guy, and he said, "So, how's the schedule going?"

I said, "Oh, we're going to start doing two on Thursdays, and he goes, oh, thank God, you're going to love it." I said, "Why? It's going to kill me, right?"

“And he goes, "No, that second show you do on Thursday is how you should do the show every”

week, because you'll be too tired to worry about whether you're making the right choice." And he's absolutely right, and now that informs everything I do. That's really interesting. Without the tired, I don't have to be tired, but I don't worry about the choices. I just do what I feel.

What feels good? So one more question. I have taken up a lot of your time this morning. Whatever you will know. No, no, no, but that's part of my question.

That's part of my question. Okay, yeah. We're recording this in the morning. You have a lot of work to do before your show ends. It's 11, 21, recording time.

Yes. So what do you have to do to compensate for the fact that you were generously enough to give us this interview? Breathe deeply, and trust my staff, and I am capable of both. And then I'm ready for whatever the fresh wave of stresses.

Because you've got to, you've got to kind of like the stress too. I don't know how to attach a positive feeling to stress and pressure, but there is one. There's a bulletproof feeling that that comes over you. And that's, it's really a pleasant one. And you kind of have to have like that.

But did you want to these chops? You've got to kind of learn to love the flaming toboggan ride of it. You've got to like it. Because everybody else isn't a toboggan with you. You're doing it together.

That's the joy. Everybody's doing it together. And if we went, hey, we survived pretty good show. Let's do it again tomorrow. And that's, that's it. It's, it's the movement forward.

Because it never stops. You've got to love the downhill hurdle. There's no finish line. You've got to just love missing all those trees that you could have hit today. Stephen, I absolutely love talking with you.

I'm so glad you came back to our show and I'm so glad back on TV. It is a pleasure talking to you, Terry, because when I found out to be talking to you again,

Maybe the show means something. I love the show. I'm so glad you're doing it. Stephen Colbert, speaking to Terry Gross in 2016. The last episode of the late show with Stephen Colbert was televised last night on CBS.

After a break, we remember Barney Frank, the former Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts. He died Tuesday at age 86. This is fresh air. Barney Frank, the former Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts, was known for his quick wit, his championing of gay rights, even before he came out himself, and, for authoring

one of the most significant pieces of legislation regarding financial regulation. He died Tuesday, he was 86. He was described in a New York Times obituary this way. A Harvard train lawyer, Mr. Frank, bristled with intellectual firepower, acidic turns of phrase and a zest for verbal combat.

Frank was elected to Congress in 1980 after serving eight years in the Massachusetts Legislature. He came out in 1987, and in 2012 became the first member of Congress to enter into a same sex marriage.

He was the powerful chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.

In 2010, in response to the housing crisis of 2007, and the global financial crisis of 2008, he sponsored the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act with Senator Christopher Dodd of Connecticut. Barney Frank spoke with Terry Gross in 2015. At the time, he had written his memoir.

He described the response in the legislature when he advocated for gay rights.

“"Well, I believe in began in 1973, and I've noticed I began lobbying for the gay rights”

bill, as we then called it. It was just the one name, and people would be very open and say, hey, pal, you're kidding. I'm not going to have some **** in my store. So, yeah, it was

unrestrained, and then in 1981, the first issue I dealt with in Congress, the District

of Columbia, had repealed its criminal war against salami, against people of the same sex having voluntary sex with each other. And at that time, there was a rule that either House of Congress could pass a war and cancel anything in the criminal area, the District of Columbia did. And the House passed that, canceling it by a three to one margin, even many Democrats that voted against it. I got

barely a majority of the Democrats, and when I went around lobbying it was again, oh, these people are discussing, are you kidding, pal, what they do? That turns my stomach. I can't allow that to happen. So, you couldn't really say, did you know I'm gay because

“you weren't out yet? What would you say in response to that?”

When you're going to let you sort of buddy, trying to win the argument on the easiest grounds to win the argument, obviously they disagreed with the moral disapproval, but it was unnecessary for me to win that one. It's almost like arguing in court. You focus how much you can win, and I would say to them, well, nobody's asking you to like it or not like it or prove it and not approve it. The only question is, don't prevent other people. It doesn't hurt you,

and that was the argument. And by the way, that evolved into the argument with which I think we were successful in the same sex marriage. You begin by saying, nobody's asking you to say this is moral, nobody's asking you to give up whatever view you have that this is the bad thing or the way to we progress to that. At this point, all we're asking you to do is leave people alone, and even if people are doing something that you disapprove of,

if it has no impact on you whatsoever, if it has no negative impact on anybody else, it's simply what these two people are doing. Please don't mistreat them because of it.

And that's, as I said, basically the way we started with the same sex marriage as well.

But then, of course, there was the argument, no, but if gay people get married, that hurts the institution of marriage. That hurts straight people who are married.

“You're absolutely right. And by the way, I think that's why one of the reasons we ultimately”

went. And your question is really quite good in getting at that. By the time the defense of marriage act came up, which is now in 1995, '96, we had to make some progress. So, just as you correctly pointed up by 1981, even people who had racist feelings didn't feel comfortable and articulated them. By the '90s, it was not considered respectable talking about f*cks and to be very abusive about people. You could be disapproving, but you had to moderate it. So, the real argument against

are being able to marry was, as I said, what were people who didn't like one of us and the notion of two of us getting together and being happy was geometrically worse. But they couldn't come out and say that. It was not at that time acceptable, respectable to say, 'We don't like those people and we don't want them to get out with each other and being happy.' So, they came up with

it should have been, we don't want those people to be able to get together act. But they had to

come up with supposed negative social consequences. And one of the reasons that we were able to win this battle was, they made the mistake because once Massachusetts broke the loggeum and started the same sex marriage, it became undeniably clear that there were no adverse consequences. So, they had built their arguments on the false payments. But you correctly said, 'Oh, it's the institution of marriage and it debate on the Defensive Marriage Act.' I got on the floor and said,

“I want to understand, how does the fact that all you got up in other man hurt your marriage?”

What about my relations, voluntary relations with the other guy in any way jeopardizes your marriage? And I said, 'Oh, yield to any member of the house who wants to explain to me how what I would do would hurt your marriage.' And one guy got up, Steve Roger from Oklahoma, and he said, 'Well, I'll tell the gentleman this. No, it doesn't hurt my marriage. It doesn't hurt the marriage of other people here.' But it hurts the institution of marriage. And my

response to it, as well, it doesn't hurt any individual marriages. But despite that, it somehow hurts the institution of marriage, that is an argument that would be made by someone in an institution. Do you dream these lines up in advance? Not often. They kind of come to me. I'm lucky that way. There was some things. I'm not very good at it. But I like humor. Some of them, the best humor is offered up to you by the stupidity of your opponents. You kind of make fun of your own

Jersey accent in the book. Did you ever try to lose it? Did you ever think, 'Well, if I'm going to be in public office, I have to speak more kind of standard American dialogue?' I didn't try to lose it. My mother, a wonderful woman who became a great advocate, made of an life, did involve me in elicution classes when I was a seven or eight. But it was a well-intended gesture, but it didn't work. No, in fact, what I learned how to do was it's kind of a political

“judo. I think I would have been able to make an asset out of some of my defect. For example, I have”

a hard time dressing well. Jim could have brought some work for you hard to keep me in good shape,

but in my first campaign, somebody wrote an article and said, 'I was wearing an ill-filling suit.'

And I said, 'No, that's unfair.' It was a well-fitting suit. I wasn't a person at fit.' And as a state representative, somebody took a picture of me in which I wrote a little disheveled and I put it up and said, 'Really, Frank, neatness isn't everything.' So the same with my voice. You become kind of, I think there was a certain blandness of politicians that have that does not work to your favor. So if you can be somewhat distinctive in ways that are

not offensive, I think that's helpful. Bernie Frank, thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you for being enjoyed this. We had some good questions here.

“Bernie Frank speaking to Terry Gross in 2015. His memoir, which he had just published,”

was titled Frank, 'A Life in Politics from the Great Society to Same Sex Marriage.' The Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts died Tuesday at age 86. Coming up, critic at large John Powers reviews the Apple TV series Widows Bay. This is fresh air. In the horror comedy widows Bay now showing on Apple TV, Matthew Reese plays a mayor who wants to turn his New England island into a popular tourist destination. There's just one problem.

The island may be a source of evil. Our critic at large John Powers says the series offers the funny frightening delights of movies from an earlier era. When people ask me to name the

scariest movie I ever saw, I always tell them Abbot and Costello meet Frankenstein. A 1948

rom by saw on TV is a kid. It's a slightly embarrassing answer, but in recent days I've had two other people tell me the same thing. One a 30 year old woman, the other an 82 year old man. We all agreed to what makes it so terrifying is that you think you're safely watching a dumb comedy. Then boo, you're actually in a horror movie. Juggling laughter and fright is the strategy of widows Bay, a new Apple TV series that has rolled out about half of its 10 episodes.

Created by Katie Dippold, who wrote the Ghostbusters remake and countless episodes of parks and recreation. This amusing sometimes nerve-racking show has a soothingly retro feel. Looking back to horror stories of the 70s and 80s, it's like a stranger things intended for grown-ups. Matthew Restars' Tom Loftus, a widower who's the mayor of widows Bay, a small

find in TV comedies. Most importantly, his lonely awkward number two Patricia. That's wonderful

“Kato Flynn, who hits him with the grieved zingers. It's Tom's dream to turn this sleepy island into”

another Martha's vineyard, crawling with tourists who drink cappuccino, read the New York times, and make the place happening. But the townsfolk have their doubts about his plans, partly because they don't like poening up for espresso machines, partly because Tom can't even seem to manage his teenage son, who smokes weed and gets into trouble. These superstitious locals also know something Tom works hard to deny.

widows Bay is um cursed. It has a centuries-long history of plagues, ruinous typhoons, killer clowns, talk about mixing comedy and horror, not to mention all manner of supernatural visitations. Every few years, the island goes violently crazy. Here, Tom is in the local

“historical society with a travel writer researching a piece on widows bay. Tom tries to”

poo poo talk of the island's dark side. I was talking to the guy on the ferry, when he said something not. What was that? There's a bad thing happening here. You know, Arthur, there is something about these sea fairing towns. A superstition is there tall tales. Maybe its its stories help pass a long day at sea. I don't know, but I find it charming myself. Was there cannibalism? No. Well, the article by you, forced inside the church, they immediately

turned to cannibalism. I don't think that's right. I'm just sort of framed article and it's not the historical society. Yeah, you know, these stories get so exaggerated over time. I mean, look, was there a deadly storm in 1786? Yes, did a group of people get trapped inside a church apparently so. Did they immediately turn to cannibalism? No, that took four days. Despite this, the travel writer does a glowing newspaper article on widows bay.

But just when the tourist start coming, bad things start to happen. Devouring mist rolling, church bells inexplicably toll, people catch sight of spectral figures. Tom finds himself badgered by a grizzled boat captain named Wick,

played by the always great Stephen Root, who tells him to raise an alarm and stop the fairy

from bringing more visitors. But like the mayor in jaws, who won't close the beach despite the shark attacks, Tom refuses. A mistake. Soon, Tom and Patricia and Wick are fighting to save the lives of the islanders and their visitors, and effort the requires as ever, confronting what's buried in the past. Now the benchmark for TV comedy horror is David Lynch's twin peaks, who's interlacing of goofiness and disturbing drama made it one of the most influential shows

in television history. What is Bayes much lighter? Where Lynch explored our scariest psychic merc. Dippled taps into our pop culture past. We keep bumping into images and ideas that reference movies like jaws, Halloween, the fog, and the wicker man among others. Not to mention the work of Stephen King, whose titles appear prominently in the bookmobile Patricia drives around town. That said, widows bay gives you the pleasures you find in a handsomely

tooled series with top-notch talent, from directors like Hero Murai, who's best known for Atlanta, to deaf-old character actors like Dale Dickie and Kay Cowan. All three leads are terrific, with Oflin teasing out the heroism in the foreloin Patricia, and root capturing the paythoss beneath his driven exasperation. As for Reese, who specializes in uncomfortable heroes,

he's rarely been this good. His beleaguered Thomas a man whose face always starts off looking

cocky, then melts into anxiety. Like nearly all series these days, widows bay doesn't truly end. Dippled leaves doors open for a second season, which I would cheerfully watch, but she does build to a climax filled with emotion, and with suspense that isn't merely suspenseful. The story confronts Tom and us, with a moral conundrum that philosophers call the trolley problem. For all its comedy, widows bay winds up asking a thorny question. Just how far would you go,

“and who would you sacrifice to save those around you from harm?”

John Powers reviewed the new Apple TV series widows bay. On Monday's show,

a new concert film titled "Hit Me Hard and Soft the Tour," which was co-directed by Eilish

“and James Cameron. Hope you can join us.”

You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/this is Fresh Airs. We're rolling out new

videos with in-studio guests behind the scenes shorts and iconic interviews from the Ark.

“Fresh Airs Executive Producer is Sam Bricker. Our senior producer today is Roberta Soran.”

Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, with additional engineering support

by Joyce Lieberman, Julian Hertzfeld, and Charlie Kyre. For Terry Gross and Tanya Mosley, I'm David Bean Coolie.