Nick Offerman

My brother, Nick Offerman, who, as you know, was instrumental in making Parks and Recreation, the hit that it was and played the beloved Ron Swanson. And it's just a wonderful friend, person actor. We talk about so many good things today. We talk about Parks and Recreation, getting the job, how it felt to be in a show that meant so much to us. We talk about Cleopatra, how he feels about her and what he hit that. And we also talk about his book,

“Little Wood Chucks. His amazing new book that is out now and how he feels deeply about how important”

it is to make things. So please, please get ready for Nick Offerman. But before we get to Nick,

we always do this thing, right? We talk to somebody who knows Nick, we get a question to ask Nick.

And we have the wonderful Aubrey Plaza joining us. Aubrey, April, Luggate, you know where you love her. She's zooming in from New York. Plazzy. This episode is presented by all state, checking all state first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking that the fake roast chicken is, in fact, a fake roast chicken before chomping into a wing, rookie mistake. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check all state first for a quote that

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“go. I think you're about to go on stage. Oh, my God. Have you been sitting there since the last time”

I did your podcast? Yeah. I'm so sorry. I live here now. Oh, my God. And I know you don't have a lot of time, but I, there's, I felt like there was nobody better to ask a question to Nick off from in the new. Oh, I know. Well, first of all, you know that we are birth brothers. Yeah, talk about that. Nick and I have the same birthday June 26 the day that the Pied Piper led the children of the rats into the water. Real story folks. And you can feel the Pied Piper

energy coming out. You know, both of us. Jason Schwartzman also has a birthday on June 26. So does Paul Thomas Anderson actually, but he's not in our club yet, but um, yeah. So we have this like birthday text message chain, which I almost want to read out loud because it's so funny,

because it don't we only write on it on our birthday. And it's always it's always like in medieval

talk. It's new as Nick and Jason Schwartzman. Nick and Schwartzman. Yeah. Can you read just a little bit of it? Okay. Oh, I got my phone. Okay. This is like sacred territory. Okay. Here's one that Nick wrote. Mighty power. This was a couple years ago. Mighty powers and health to you. My fellow birthday triplets let us dance under the moon and delight Gaya for another 12 moons with our dark japes and an emoji that I can't don't want to describe. This is another one from Nick.

Dear my birthday beauties, it's 9 a.m. on our birthday in New Zealand and I'm sending you both a massive load of my fulsome. Oh, Urassine love. I thought it said urine when I read it on my birthday. But now I'm seeing it clearly. I thought he said a massive load of my urine. That sounds like could be him, but Urassine love, which Urassine love. And Urassine believe his bear like, right? Bear like, oh, the bear, right? I wrote back and my load to you, my brother.

But it was a different load that I was talking about. That's just a little taste. It's a little

“taste and it is how Nick talks. Do you remember meeting him for the first time? I think it was probably”

literally on set. I don't remember. I think he scared me, you know, at first. He scared me a lot.

Why? In a good way. No, just because I think, no, he was so funny, but I was always like trying to

replicate his behavior on set. Like, I'll never forget. I mean, you guys all taught me how to really be on set, because I didn't, you know, I didn't really, I'd only done one job,

kind of reminded me of something. I'd probably tell you the story. But like, where I was like, you know how when you're on set, you get treat. Like, actors get treated like babies. And it's so such a weird vibe. Like, when I haven't worked for a while, and then I go back and I'm like, this is so weird. No wonder why actors get so weird, because everyone treats you like a baby, like you can't do anything. And I remember like, I was just sitting in my little chair or something,

“and I wasn't doing anything for a while. And one of the PSK and my film was like, do you need anything?”

And I was like, sure, I'd take a coffee or something like that. And then Nick was sitting next to me, like, reading a book or something, and he looked over and he went, don't forget that you couldn't get up and get your own coffee. It's right over there. And I know that sounds kind of like an asshole thing to say, but I didn't take it like that. I was like, you're fucking right. I was like, I don't need that little PA over there to walk over there in my eyesight. And for me, cup of coffee.

I'm like, because you get in that zone on set where you just turn into like a couch potato where you're

like, and he reminded, like, jolted me. I was like, I'm never going to ask for coffee again ever.

It's so, it's so, it's so, and you never have. And anytime anyone brings you coffee, you just throw it in their face. I slap it on the bottom so that goes, not only the liquid, but the cup right on their forehead. He's so, he is very paternal and he was very paternal on set. Like, when Nick was there, he would know his lines. And he loved to goof around, but he wanted to get the job done. Like, he was daddy energy for sure. Yeah, he was daddy. And but he really did

that. You, you both. So, you both had such a perfect balance of like professionalism, but and fun. And it was a very, very good for me to witness, because it was like, I wanted to,

I wanted to be good for him and for you. Like, I always wanted to be prepared, and but then also

be ready to fuck around. And yeah, I loved, I loved thought about working with Nick. Yeah. And I have to say, like, the the April and Ron stuff started early. I think it was season one when you two started doing stuff together. And it was really helpful for both of your characters. It was so helpful. I think it, I'm trying to remember, I've won memory of like that.

“Remember that episode when we were like in the grocery store, or something. I think that was”

one of those early on ones. I'm thinking, I think there was an episode in season one when he hurts his neck. And oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right? And he stuck in the chair. Yeah, yeah. And then I like go, I like go into his, I like stand in his office. And I'm like, I'm like, kind of his assistant that day or something. Yeah. And we, we barely say, like anything to each other. Yeah. We just like stare at each other. And then like, it's almost like

we're telepath. We were telepathic. Yeah, both of you are very good at saying little and talking slowly. And it's funny that he uses the word "ersign" because he really is like, one could classify him as a bear. He is a bear. He does. He's a bear. And he's a man in a very, you know, you don't find a lot of like men who can build things. I mean, in this profession. I wonder if, if he, if that's a lie.

I don't think he can. I don't think he's actually doing it. So we say, I've never actually seen him

build anything. You ever seen him with a hammer? I haven't. Nope. And I seen where he does it, but there's other people in there. So true. And he comes in and says, I made this canoe and it's like,

“when? Yeah. When? Yeah. When? Yeah. When exactly? What question do you think I should ask him?”

What does it feel like when you jerk off to every episode of Parks and Rack when you're watching it? Let's get a real question that I can actually ask him. All right. Okay. Two questions. Okay. One, have you ever seen a ghost? Hmm. I want to hear like, if he has any like, other realm stories. Oh, interesting. I don't know where he would land on that in the on the woo, scale of being open to neither. I mean, either. Like, for real, I want to ask him. Yeah. Like,

do you believe, like, do you believe in ghosts? Like, do you believe in that? Have you, had, do you have a good story? Mm-hmm. And do you believe in hell? No, don't ask him that. No, um, believe me. I won't. Okay. Okay. How about, do you remember a good time we had working sorry? Sorry. Sorry, you're right. No, you're right. You're right. I just immediately want to know,

how just get started and show this? I don't know. Or any of my, are these, is this anything? Yeah. These are good. These are good. Okay. Here's my real question. Okay.

“If Bill and Ted's excellent adventure happened to you in real life, what time period would you go to?”

And who would you fight? Perfect. You know he's going to have some perfect. Perfect question. Okay. Good. That's perfect. Who would you fight? And what would you take me with you? Yeah. Because you don't want to. Do you know you want? I mean, I have to say you guys were like a

strong duo for a million reasons, but both you and Nick have a fortitude, like a way where you could face,

you guys are very emotionally and physically strong. You mean, you and Nick were the only two cast members to play on the Parks and Rec softball team. That's right. Still got my uniform. All right. Well, that we got our question. I don't want to keep you okay with time. All right. I'm not okay with time. Okay. That's actually, but why do you want to do something on? No, when you talk about 15 minutes. Okay. Then I'm good. I'm out. Baby, I'm out. Watch me in less than an hour.

“I'm going to be on that stage ripping apart. What do you have to do between now and the show?”

I am interested before I let you go. What's your routine? I'm literally supposed to be there in like 20 minutes. I'm going to get a shower. I'm discussing right now. You're at home. I'm not okay. You're not at the other side. We're okay. I didn't time my day out very well. Okay. Okay. Thank you for doing this. But I can actually do anything. Yes. If I really put my mind to it. It's going to be a nightmare getting a cap. This is what I literally

am going to do. Yeah. Get a shower in like two minutes. I believe in you. Then I'm going to run to six Avenue and I literally mean it. I'm going to run. It's rush hour. And I'm going to hail a cap and that cap is going to fly me up there and it's going to be exhilarating. And then I'm just going to, I just hope I won't, you know. But when you get my self in character and time, I'll start in the cap. I'm going to let you go right now, co-dependently. I'm worried about you.

And um, okay. Thank you for doing this. Thank you, Pauzy. Love you, Miss you. Love you. Love you and love Nick. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. I hope you get out of there sometimes. Drink water. Okay. This episode is brought to you by visible. Let's be honest. Wireless can feel like a world of traps, expensive bills, hidden fees and promises that just don't hold up. You start to feel stuck. Don't fall for the trap. Escape to visible. The ultimate

wireless hack get unlimited data and hotspot power by Verizon. One line all for just $25 a month. Taxes and fees included. You heard that right? Just $25 a month. Get great coverage and a reliable connection with visible. Switch today at visible.com and start saving on wireless. Terms apply. See visible.com for plant features and network management details. Hold on. Sit down on the mic. Get on the mic. So I can, oh my god. Nick. Okay. Listeners. Nick has brought me a bag of treats.

Well, God. I love what do we got? What do we got? We talk about making things. Yes. Which we

will. This is the first project in my book is a slapstick. Middle wood checks.

“Because and I thought you would appreciate this. One Lee and I. Do you remember Lee by the”

course? Yeah. We've had so much fun. We go on tour and the lead does what she makes one of these on stage with a bench while I sing and I'm a jackass. And when we were figuring out the projects for the book, I said, look, I'm any kid that you go in the woods with and you're like, let's find a good stick. Let's make something. A good percentage of kids are going to be like, this is a sword or a gun or it's like this is an implement of violence. Let's make war or whatever.

Yeah. We do, you know, I hate that about us, but we have it. So I said, we have to have a weapon in the book, but I have a comedy weapon. The slapstick. May I see? Yeah. So for those that don't know, the word slapstick came from this and this says, but joint on it. Which is a type of wood joint.

It's not something periant. You know, I've never used a slapstick. Many have intimate. I had never

heard of one. It's from like comedia del Arte or punch and Judy shows use them. And it's and the great thing is you can pretend to hit people. And it makes a noise and you know, and so you make a reaction. Yes. And you have comedy that you can do spanking. You can do fake spankings.

hold on. You also brought a water bottle. Yes, sir. Is that your offerman, which I've water bottle?

“Yeah. But I, you know, I have that too. I want to those. I just can't rid of the one you gave me”

that huge one from making it. Yeah. I finally worked out like a month ago. And I replaced it.

Are you a big, um, we're going to get into a lot of stuff today. But how much water do you drink a day? Generally, I've been doing a lot of working out because I did a job or had to work out. Bragg. Uh, not a huge deal. Um, I got, well, I got super jacked for how much can you lift your job? What do you lift in these days? Um, two, I, I lift, uh, cyber trucks. I do two cyber trucks. Go up to them and lift them up. And then I put people in them. Um, but I, I, I got crazy.

I, and then I did actual wrestling. Oh, my god. I trained really nice. There's so many places to go from what you just told me because number one, I've wrestled with you in a small way and set it and you're very strong. Thank you. Um, you have the body, like you have the carriage of someone who I feel like would be good at wrestling. Did you wrestle in your in high school? I tried. I, my uncle was a wrestler and I, I tried wrestling and, and quite honestly, my dad was a, was great at

basketball and baseball. Yeah. So I went out for wrestling, uh, one year was like no thanks. How come? It was really hard. Yeah. It's so hard. It's, and I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't great. Um, I was, uh, I didn't, I didn't have the fire. Yeah. So to, like, uh, to overcome to the vision quest, if you

“well. Yeah, exactly. And then your 50s though, when you have to get buffed, that's hard. I was unable”

to approach the lunatic friend. Um, but I've, I've always loved being an athlete. Yeah. Uh, and so,

I've always maintained an athleticism. But, uh, it was actually pretty fun. I work with the, the great trainer named Grant Roberts who does this. Yeah. And he's super good at it. And it actually was only four times a week, one hour each. And there was nothing crazy. A bunch of protein. But remember when Pratt was doing, um, Guardians like he had to eat crazy amounts of food. Yeah. The good thing is I'm a former pro wrestler. The character was, there's no, like, show. We're

seen where I'm like, langerously, you know, showing my Chris Pratt abs. Right. Uh, in fact, it's in my contract with that language. Um, I'm glad we're talking about sports because I kind of want to start with young Nick Offerman today in high school, Emonuka, Illinois. It's like athletic kid in the drama club. Well, and I'm not saying that those two things don't go together. It's just in the 80s. Like, what was it like being a drama kid and a sports kid? The thing is, I, there

wasn't a lot of culture. And when I say this, I love my town and like, and my family, but like, there wasn't, um, there was a lot of counter culture or, uh, so, so like, we had the Beatles,

but only their first three records, you know, like, what I got to college. And they're like,

check out the white elbow. What? I already loved. Please, please, me. Um, and so, like the drama,

“the drama kids weren't fully drama kids and the jocks weren't fully jobs. Yeah. Because I think”

the school and town were small enough. And there just wasn't a lot to do. I was definitely a polymath, and I think it was just because I, I didn't, I hadn't figured out what I was going to do. Yeah. And so it was just kind of trying everything. Do you remember what made you try out for your first play? Like, like, you know, I definitely, there's a famous, in my family, there's a famous, uh, like, uh, super-rate movie from our fishing cabin. When I was like 11, and it was,

when you go to the Cubs game, and you get a free jersey, three quarter length, like white, body, blue sleeves, Cubs, and on the back was a keybler, elf, uh, tree, and the keybler, else, sponsored the jersey. And, uh, I'm in that jersey, and the camera's going around every family member, and they're all like ducking away from the camera, and it gets to me, and I'm literally going, like, just pointing at myself and making faces like you have fun. If you have a camera,

you found the right. Isn't that funny that, like, you can see that sometimes in people where they, like, even just your reflection in, in, in, in, like, the store window, or a mirror, like, I used to do commercials on my bathroom sink in the mirror to myself, just like one day. Yeah. I'm going to, someone's going to be looking at my face. I mean, Megan had my, my champion wife, Megan Malalee,

and, and do Barbara Streisand records into a hairbrush to the point where she could now perfectly,

she's, like, a Broadway star, because she did that. Yeah. I didn't have any, like, I knew, I wanted to entertain, and I knew that I loved Jim Ignitowski, Christopher Lloyd's character on Taxi, where I was like, that guy's so weird and, like, scary, but he's super funny. I feel like

“that's, that's what I'm drawn to. But I had no, it wasn't until late in, when I was trying to figure”

out where to go to college, that I was like, oh, you can, I can try and do acting as a job. And, you know, very early on in your career in my career, we meet in Chicago, and we're both kind of in Chicago in the early 90s, trying stuff, just like, you know, trying to get hired, and, but how do you get to Chicago from, like, how do you move there? I had this crazy moment where I was, I took my girlfriend, who was a year older than me, to audition at the University of

Illinois for their dance department, and to this day, it's so miraculous. I must have been loitering in the hallway, because these two theater students who I then came to know, I don't remember how it started. I wish I had a film of this. There, somehow it was like, hey, kid, why are you, at loitering in the hallway of the theater facility? And somehow we, we struck up a conversation, and they said they were theater students, and I said, what does that

mean? And they said, you can study acting, and I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me, like, because I told my guidance counselor at school that I want to be an actor, and he was like, that's not available. You can't do that. And then I said, I want to be a musician, and then he was like, come on. What are you going to do with that? That would be really interesting to dig into this guy's forgotten dreams for sure. So I'm like, there's a lot going on

for fun. But they told me, you can't be an actor. So then I met these students that were like, we're going to the university, like this great state school, they have a conservatory program, and I said, okay, so you become an actor, then what? And they said, you can get paid to do plays in Chicago. And I was like, I took them by the lapels of their coat and was like, are you fucking kidding? They told me, you can't do that. I don't know when makes any money. I did, I had no idea

that that was happening. I just wanted to say, I really, because I didn't know anyone who was an actor growing up. And although I wasn't discouraged in that way, it just didn't seem like a job. It was like, what do you mean? Like being an actor? Yeah. I could just seem like that's stupid. And so

we meet in the early 90s in the attic of a house. That's right. All I remember is that you always

love to punch me in the arm. Yeah. I have a thing about that. Big time. It is, it's a love tap,

“really. But you know, I think, you know, and again, I might, this might be revisionist history,”

but I remember when we met, you felt very familiar to me, even though, you know, we hadn't, we didn't know each other, even though at the time you were in kind of in deep character for a play. All right. It was, that's right, because it was during Clockwork Orange at Steppenwolf. And I was writing a big motorcycle. And I had a shaved head. I was experimenting with what Nick was going to turn out to be like, um, I had a shaved head, but I kept the front inch of my hair down into a full

beard. And I died at different manic panic like punk colors. So it looked really scary. Really scary. And it is the thing about you that's so great to your, to the gym and to tell us you have it all, which is like, you are able to look scary, but you're not, you're not a scary person at all. Which, uh, which I've learned to appreciate. There was a time when I'd be like, shut up. I pulled my knife out onto you. If you said that. Yeah. I mean, I remember talking to you.

“I guess punching you in the arm. I remember talking about the play that you were in. I remember that”

company. And, you know, at the time in Chicago, there were like different ways into the same creative experience. I feel like they are kind of a big suit. Now, but at the time, it was very important,

like, serious theater. And then improv and sketch. And they were like, never the Twanchel meet.

I'd tell you something. I, so this is like early to mid 90s. I was so ignorant, even then, that if I had, I had no idea that, like, I was a big fan of SNL as a kid, if I had any idea that there was a pipeline to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even could get an audition or anything. I had no idea. In fact, I remember just thinking like, you guys, so you guys make stuff up in a bar.

yeah, we know it's, uh, we have some notes three hours long. Yeah. I have to say, if I may,

“just digress, you have some of the best posture. Wow. Thank you. Of any friend of mine. And it”

feels like that. Thanks a lot. And that feels like it comes from a core training, like a, you have great posture. I mean, I, um, thank you. I, I, it's something that I do have to think about, especially after our show, everything I got offered was like somehow overweight, uh, barbecue master.

And it's all these guys in the tidy whiteies in the mirror crying. So what? And the first couple

of us, like, this is interesting. And then I realized, oh, I need to, I need to stay in shape. Uh-huh. So that I can get a variety. It's into, you're, you love to transform your body. You are. You come from a physical body place with a lot of your characters. And, and, and, and I do feel like it's, you know, so Ron Swanson on Parks and Recreation had a physicality to him that felt like you understood really early on, um, and played with. And you talked about it a lot. It's really interesting to me.

But before we get to that, because I do want to talk about that, let's just talk about

“you getting that part. I know you've spoken about it a lot, but I think the physicality”

was part of the part was like what you understood really fast about him. Because you're right, if you, in the wrong hands, he's a joke. He's a total clown. Sure. Um, I'm sorry. I'm being a little moved

by, uh, we've never talked about our show. And I also haven't seen our show.

Bate, are you crying? No, I'm not crying. No. I thought you're so crying. I was thinking about this pork dish. We haven't talked about our show. No, we haven't. And that, and it's, I mean, we've talked about it with each other all the time. For sure, but, but not in this. We know not publicly. I mean, where do we even talk about it? People totally like it. I just, I just came here from a book tour in the UK. Yeah. And guess, I guess how I close every show. I play 5,000 candles. And I had these

incredible, these two sisters named Flo and Joan opening a for me. They're these super funny sisters who do funny songs. And I mean, when you say, I'm in a crowd, a theater of 2000 people, and you just say parks and recreation or around Swanson, the roof lies off the place. I know. And you're just like, you guys, that was a long time. It was a long, you know, my son just turned 17, which is when we started the show, 17 years ago. Holy cow. And I know, think about that.

And the fact that there's still people are still dressing up for Ranswanson at Halloween. And people said that you got us through the pandemic. And people are saying, my kids just starting it.

“And like, it's it's unbelievable. I don't, I mean, I know we knew I got to say. And I, I think I can speak”

for us both. We were old enough. And I don't know, maybe a little, like, we knew what we had at the time you and me. And we really did. And we tried to enjoy every minute of it. But like, Ranswanson is, would be in the hall is in the hall of fame of characters. I mean, he is, he is this person that people feel, what is it like, almost 20 years later, interacting with that kind of work,

like how do people interact with you? It's interesting. I mean, mostly, first of all, I'm so

stupidly grateful, like, from start to suit to nuts. And also, people are so nice to me. And respectful. I think of Rans, like, people approach me with a difference. And also a little fear. Yeah. But they are really polite to me, where they, I usually have to say, please call me Nick, or, you know, because they're shaking and they're scared. Mr. Swanson, if I may. Yeah. May I approach the bench? They do. And so, for all of that, I'm super grateful.

It's certainly weird to, there are thorns on the rose or pits in the peach of, like, Rans politics or Rans, what Rans represented sort of as a paradigm, some people with poor, uh, reading comprehension were like, oh, he's got, he's a shotgun guy, like, finally, so that, so they mistook Ron for sort of things they wanted to represent in themselves. Yeah. And usually it was something old-fashioned or right-wing-ish, like misogynistic or

violent or anything like that. And so that's been weird, too, where people love the character.

like, they'll say Ron definitely would have voted for this jerk. And I'll be like, hang on, hang on, what's going on? And I'll call Mike, sure, the main creator and writer, and say this somebody said this, dude, and he would give me a pair, you know, he would whip out a perfect paragraph of that's hilarious, but also why Ron, for example, anybody that went from the world of business

“to the world of politics, Ron would think was a fool, because Ron's like, what are you doing?”

You were a capitalist, right? And so then I would, you know, this is back when I used to participate, when social media wasn't just a cesspool. But I would go back and say,

Mike, here's what Mike sure says. And they'd say, nope, they would say no, he'd that you guys don't

know, you guys don't know shit about Ron's wants. And I was like, well, I'm just going to leave it up there. I thought I did, but I guess you got me on that one. Do people come up to you and say, people call me Ron Swanson? Yeah. I get that a lot with Leslie, no, people say I'm like Leslie, nope. And usually that means like to your point, it can mean a bunch of different things. It can mean I work hard and I'm fighting the good fight. It can mean I kind of drive everybody crazy. And I

talk too much and I'm like, you know, like it can mean a million things. Sure. I mean, I feel like

“when I think of Leslie, no, I think of her, her affiliates, the most like that that sometimes,”

and sometimes when people are like that, it's a very heroic characteristic, but it can be too much. Yeah. Because you're like, okay, like I, I'm doing what you asked me to do. And when people say that to me about Ron Swanson, it's like, it usually means their taciturn. Yeah. And they're like, you know, like I imagine a husband and the grocery store carrying like 112 pounds of stuff and his wife's like, let's just get a cart. We're like, no, I got this. I got it. I'm just going

to keep going. And so being too stubborn or like relying too much on, I could just remember us doing scenes together. And I would have 100 words to your one. And I would just circle around you in that office, just like, and you would just sit and watch me. And it was like old archetypes of like the, you know, different animals in the same room, basically. And that was what's so fun is playing those energies. And then as we got more comfortable, like flipping those energies and having fun with those energies.

But like those early days of just being able to just kind of come in and buzz around while you stood your ground was so fun. No, it was really fun game. And just picturing that you describing it and me picturing it. There's a gigal. I've shown them all way to eat on Becam on a scooty scooter.

Yeah. And see, we would always make her laugh. It should slam into the air. Yeah, the camera operators

were in the room with us a lot. And they were part of the family for sure. And we would make them laugh. And you talk pretty, you don't talk as slow. You talk differently than Ron. But you talk pretty slow. I, I'm the slowest talking. Like, how do you do that? I don't know anything that I see myself in.

“I'm even now. I'm like, pick it up, man. Like what is your deal?”

Oh my god, I'm the exact opposite. I'm like, babe, take a breath. And now that I'm a podcast, I hear myself. I'm like, oh my whoa. It's weird to, especially when people enjoy when people like praise some acting work. And I, and you know, I have to watch everything. Like, like, like, watching your baseball swing to make, you know, see what's working. And every time, I speak my dial. Well, I feel like I could, I feel like I can do an impression of you.

Can you do an impression of me? I would never want to. Really? I'm going to do you right now to your face.

I don't have it in me. Well, I have it in me. When you were playing Ron on the show, what did you do? Like, what were some like ways to get into that character? Like, was it wardrobe? Was it the mustache? Was it? I mean, it's, it's funny. Megan, we've been together for 25 years. And only about five years ago, God bless her. I mean, you've seen the crazy ways. I, I, I, I never get cast as like good looking people. So I get,

Larry from the three stages here. And Megan's like, there, there was one time I was doing a play. And she wouldn't let me get in bed, because I looked so upset. And I slept on a couch for two nights before I figured out like a put on a stocking cap. And then I got in. But she five years ago,

she finally said, you know what? I really don't like your facial hair.

“I know this after 20 years of it. She's, I mean, I think she has liked it at times.”

It's a, it's a, it's a practical thing where she said, it's a mouthful of this. Like, yeah, some, it's a, yeah. We're getting into it. She, it's, and I was like, when you put it that way, it is like a bristle brush. It's like the kind of brush that people farmers have to get the mud off your work boots. It's a really stiff work. If you have sensitive skin at all, and you have a make-out sash, you can just be totally red face. Right. Yeah. And so, and, and so now we negotiate. So,

I've got some work. And so I'm maintaining a mustache for the moment. But in a couple of weeks, I'll be shaving it. Yeah. And something I've noticed is both by talking changes. Oh, what? When I have the mustache, I, I call it my constipate of rictus. It's like a sort of

“invisible clamp comes over me. And, and things become more stintory and, and more like,”

Sam, the eagle from the muppets. Like, where my, I can feel my brown, or, and when I shave, I look 15 years younger. And I, and I just become boyish or I'm just like, okay, guys. Yeah. What's up? But do you give free mustache rides until you shave your mustache? I don't.

I'm, you've always charged for mustache rides. And I've always thought that was rude.

So, we do this thing where we talk to someone who knows our guests to get a question from them. So, we talk to Aubrey. Oh, Jesus. I know. And there's nothing we can use. It's barely usable. Born on the same day. She speaks of that. And she might read us a little bit of some text that you guys need back and forth. Nothing bad. Nothing bad. Um, you guys share a birthday.

“And um, I feel like there was, you know, there's so many people that talk about on the show,”

obviously, that we worked with, and we love. But Ron and April's relationship to me, especially in the rewatch, is very special. Most, most of the podcast so far, I'm willfully not cry, by the way. Yeah. Like I know that you would like some crying. I don't I don't care either way. Like, like, if you just run an April, I know. I'm in trouble. Ron and April. I mean, there's, I have a lot of love for all of this subject better.

Wait, I have two shoes. I'll say. Don't let me with the slapstick. Look, I have good hang two shoes. Um, I'll just keep them here just in case. All right. You're saying it's a run. Ron and April because because if we're going to extend the mommy daddy metaphor, definitely Aubrey slash April was our daughter on that show. And we both of our characters kind of helped raise her and loved doing it and by doing

it like any good parent, you learned something about yourself by doing it. Like, you know, Leslie learned that like her kind of pushy ambition, it needs to be replaced with like a gentle listening as to what people want and need from her and Ron learned what. Ron didn't learn it. Ron learned well throughout music. What? Yeah. Yeah. What, but I mean, what was it like doing scenes with Aubrey? I mean, it was, uh, it was so fun because she, um, you know,

she could, she could meet me in my own game. She took my, because one of the things, one of the formative things when we started the show was I said to the guys, I mean, I just couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that they created a part for me. Like, I was so aware that, uh, if if someone had said to me, write your dream part, I would have written something so much stupider because I'm not, like, sure, you know, like I would have been like, okay, he's got a fucking

he's got a motorcycle and he always wears T-shirt with no sleeves. Like a little bit like some 12-year-old

superficial. And in my final audition with you, uh, which I, you know, I had to audition for five

months to get the job. Wow. I didn't know his that long. Yeah. It was cool. It started with, it started with Adam and I were brought in to read for a role named Josh. Right. And it was, it was chemistry reads with Rashida. Right. And, you know, if you're going in to read of chemistry for TV show, guess who you don't want to walk in the fucking door. And Scott, fucking chemistry. Okay, charisma. Believe me, I had to do scenes with him. I was like, this guy. I'm his, I'm like,

his plumber from Lucky. And both of you have gorgeous hair, though. Yeah, but they were, and people should know this is your hair. It is, but they also photographed the fleshy parts. But so, so that was crazy. And that didn't work. And somehow Mike and Greg also were stuck on me. Thank God. I mean, they called my agent and said, it's not going to happen. And if you can imagine, we're not going to cast you as someone who Rashida has to kiss. If you're going to wrap your head

but we really want you on the show. And there's this part of Amy's boss that should have really

“been like 20 years old. Yeah. Yeah. I think they were thinking a lot older at the beginning. Yeah.”

But, and I was like, I don't, great, whatever. And so then they had me come in and they read

every guy in the world. So then finally, the net God is widest possible. Then it narrowed narrowed

narrowed and they brought me in one more time for like, and Mike said, okay, we're looking at like eight guys. And then you came to town and, and Mike said, all right, we're going to have you come in and read with Amy. And this is it. This is going to be it. And it was one of those things that's this happened to me a lot where I got the job and it blew my mind. Also, you cried. We called you when you cried. I sobbed my eyes out. I mean, I said to Mike, I'm going to, I was like, I'm going to,

I said, I'm going to openly sob, but I want to stay on the phone. I was studying eight years old. Like I had been through a lot of experiences where I almost got a life-changing job. And this one was so much better than any of them had been. But before we get off of parks, so they do want to talk about the other stuff that you have done and are doing favorite episode. I know it's hard to pick, but just like you know, pick one. Don't overthink it. I have two answers in there and that's

“funny, but one is called Ron and Tammy and one is called Leslie and Ron. I believe. But I mean,”

you know, Megan is just the most wickedly funny person I've ever met. And getting to, again, the alchemy of what Mike and the writers came up with for her to do, you know, the two of us banding together against this evil librarian slapping her face with like a big cock of beef jerky. Like we're just like, Mike knew that, you know, he was like, do you think Megan would have? I still have people come up and go, you really got the library, right? Those people over there,

I'm like, "What's the people that are on the library?" And like, Tammy, that's insane. That's so funny. But then the, you know, the entire series, paying off in this episode, there was such a gift. There was like this crazy one act play. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, here it comes.

I love that episode so much and it was so like senior senior year. That was amazing. It was like senior

year. We got to be in that. We got a whole week together in that room. That whole thing that they did with were, you know, Ron, that whole story, I go into that last season was so gorgeous because they laid so much pipe for Ron to like swallow his pride and come to ask you for a job and, and then the way it all went down. That was possibly the greatest thing about the show for me was the history of me and Tammy bred so much hilarity. But then what developed between Ron and Leslie

was the first time in my life that, you know, that I was counted on by a show to, you know,

“to carry some emotional weight. Yeah, and it was, and also I think just like a great example of like”

the different kinds of love. I mean, we really lie in eyes romantic love and we'd make a lot of

the idea of like being there for each other and going through things with each other and like mentor, mentee, and then equals and then and just and also just the idea if we're to really

“widen out that people don't have to agree to treat each other with respect. Totally. Remember that?”

Yeah. Um, okay, speaking of beautiful roles, Nick, the last of us, oh my god, let's both get a tissue. That was so good, Nick. Well, thank you. That was so beautiful. I mean, I remember texting you right after and congrats on one of the Emmy. Yeah, crazy. I mean, it was so how did you get that part? Well, I wrote a joke about this. They needed a guy who could use a shovel and there are only three of us in Hollywood. Harrison Ford passed and Jane Lynch was not available.

I, uh, Craig Mason who wrote that. I mean, that everyone knew when you read that script, you were like, this is going to, if we don't fuck this up, this is going to win awards or whatever. For for many years, my god's son had a little league team and I sponsored it. It was the offerman wood shop, little league team, and Craig was one of my little league dads. So I was just friends with him from a pretty wholesome place and we had expressed some mutual affection for each

other's work over the years, but he got a hold of me and was like, I'm sending you something and

“you have to do it. And I read it and it was funny because Megan and I had just had a talk about”

that I still to this day, my vices that I overload my calendar with fun with could I have seen that in real time worked on making it together, really fun show together. You would tell me your

year and I would think this too shall not, this is a good hold. Yeah, too many things. The problem is it, it's,

I love it, it's all, but that's my advice, that's my problem. Yeah. And Megan and I just had a talk about where I was like, okay, I'm gonna take a break. Yeah, I'm gonna do less. And this thing came in and they needed me in Calgary for a month and then I didn't have the month. Yeah. And so, but I read the script and she was like, guess what, buddy, you're going to Calgary. Okay. We, I mentioned it, we made a really fun show called making it about makers and like the

process of making it, you have little wood checks, the book that's all about like your guide to

tools and Tom Fulary, but it is the idea of making things has always been very important. You've

spoken about it a lot, the spirituality of it, like how important it is for your life, your piece of mind. You work primarily with wood, but all different types of material. Why are you writing, and you've written many, many books, this book is for little people. Why is, how do you get little

“people, young people to get interested in making things and why is it important for them to do that?”

I just took my mom and dad on this book tour with me in the UK and we were just talking about how they brought me and my siblings up in a house where it wasn't talked about, they just taught us all to sustain the family. Like part of the family was we make things together, whether it's a meal or you know, if we are mending our clothing or building, making firewood, building out buildings, we'd garden and woodworking is a great way to think about what's this made of and that it's true

of everything, who's making this, who made this car, who made these shoes, who made this pie, are they having a good time, are they being cool with our resources, the way they're making this car, or the, you know, yeah, beautiful. You can feel it in here. It's awesome, Nick. It's so I love it. Thank you. I people are responding really well to you because all of us, I'm a kid who looks out of screen too much, like we all understand that and making things with each other, whether it's

your family or your neighbors or your co-stars is a great way to not look at a screen and I'm still have a delightful life. Can I show you a prop? Yes. Of course. The thing sitting in my shop is so I want to make a guitar because I tour and I do songs and I thought if I do that with a

guitar I made. Amazing. I'm done. I can just do that for the rest of my life.

The guitars are daunting, so I started with a ukulele. So this is a mahogany ukulele and I've got

This is beautiful. It's instrument, so I think probably instruments and boats. Can you play

“a ukulele? You play some music? That's your fits in tune.”

Shall I tear my ukulele song? Yes, please. ♪ Who might like to stay the husband of ♪ ♪ I love being whiskey, perhaps a bit too much ♪ ♪ Given the chance I'd fall off a bar stool daily ♪ ♪ To keep me out of the pub ♪ ♪ And also out of touch ♪ ♪ I make things like this soprano ukulele ♪ I give you one more verse. ♪ Everywhere I go people stare and add a phone ♪ ♪ Sitting in a crowded room completely alone ♪

♪ It gives me more willies in the twilight zone ♪ ♪ A brains are hooked on that shit ♪ ♪ Like a dog on a bone ♪ ♪ Put down your gadget and look me in the eye ♪ ♪ So our interaction can proceed more daily ♪ ♪ Silence your tablet ♪ ♪ Then a jacquillator sign ♪ ♪ To the sweetly strumming sounds of ukulele ♪ ♪ Oh, Nick, how are you so good? ♪ ♪ There's more but that felt like enough. ♪

Now you're going to get me going. Now you're going to get my waterworks going. Okay, we're going to end our interview today with a speed round. And you don't, you got the wrong guy for a speed round. Everybody needs you, but it's just you one snap or two snaps, shouldn't you? All I'm allowed. But you mentioned hot takes and people having hot takes and how we don't really need hot takes. I want your hot takes on history and philosophy. Okay, because I know you love history.

You love philosophy. I'm going to try lightning round today, but I'm going to only ask you questions about history and philosophy. Okay, I'll try to go fast, but it's, it's pretty, pretty daunting. Okay, I know. Well, don't worry. It won't be hard. Aristotle, smart or weird. Smart. Here, regard used different pseudonyms to debate. What would be a pseudonym you would use to debate? Oh, um, pilotus.

Freud. Yes or no? Uh, no. I say no, too. Okay. Um, true or false.

“The unexamined life is not worth living. Uh, true. I think therefore I am true or false.”

False. You cannot step twice into the same river. Oh, true. That's a, that's a huge one. That's on my, some of my, up on my board. Is it? Oh, yeah. It's, it's something that that occurs to me a lot.

You know, uh, there's, there's nothing, you can never recapture, especially in our business.

You know, if, like if, if we ever, uh, had caused to do some sort of reboot or something of person wreck, yeah. Uh, it would not the same river. Different river. Yeah. Can't step twice into the same river. Uh, I'm a joke or I'm a smoker. I'm a midnight poker. True. Now we're moving on to history. Okay. What was the coolest thing Egyptians invented? Man. Uh, in your opinion. This is a guess because I don't, I don't, I'm not sure if that was

“Egyptians. I was going to say irrigation. Yeah. I think so. But yeah, they did, if, if people disagree”

with that, they're wrong. Cleopatra, smash or pass, uh, pass. The Vikings got to America before. That shit is tired. Yes. The Vikings got to America before Columbus. Why doesn't anyone talk about that? Um, because, uh, because the Vikings did not have good PR. Um, Columbus had a great pressure. Columbus didn't even set foot on the mainland. He literally hit an island. Um, okay. And now we get to Aubrey's question for you. So Aubrey had, she had a few questions.

Her first one was, do you believe in ghosts? Okay. Uh, no. But, but I don't disagree. I, when people do

in a billin tent kind of way where you could basically, you could get zap back to any point in history.

And, uh, this sounds like a good movie. Uh, she've never seen billin tent. Uh, I missed a lot of stuff.

Oh, my God. Fun. It's a great one. Well, anyway, they zap back in like a time machine. Right. And a billin, yeah. And they go back and they're just billin tent in different and they're just two dummies. It's like dumb and dumb are in a time machine. Totally. Um, and, um, they, so what, if you could zap back in a time machine to any era, where would you go? Who would you fight and would you take Aubrey with you? Um, man. Um, she have, if taking Aubrey's an option,

of course, and weapons are involved by all means, um, I, uh, I suppose I would go, uh, to the Roman Empire and I knew it. And I would have Aubrey fight them with her wiles. Um, and, uh, I would discover Comberland sausage and take over the British I also become king. Comberland sausage got made people king. In my hands, in this narrative. You'd be the sausage king. Got them right. Yeah. Guys, we,

guys, we could do this. Or follow me. You could try this sausage. Have you heard of

“Carole Seed? Come with me. Um, why do you love history so much? Um, I don't, uh, do you?”

I do. I'm, I mean, I think because I'm fascinated with what assholes we are, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

But also what incredible creatures we are. Yeah. Like it's, when you look at my own,

anybody's, the foibles of your own life, uh, and you look at like, I don't know, a lot of what's going on in our, in our world right now. It's astonishing that the lights are on. Like it's pretty crazy. Yeah. That a civilization has even lasted this long. Do you believe in aliens? I, I'm, I'm, I'm agnostic about all that. I, I, it seems like there is probably life in the universe. Yeah. But until I get to shake hands with them, or, uh, I don't mean to be racist.

Whatever their, uh, we have advantages. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, all of all of those things. I,

“I think, I think there's a lot we will never know as humans. And I like dwelling in that. So,”

if there are ghosts or spirits, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't think hell exists because that's a fiction written and a book by people, um, but, uh, that, that sensibility, whatever the afterlife is, I, I don't think anyone will ever know what it is. And so, if some people are like, the, I speak to spirits or whatever, I have, I have, I have no cause to disagree with that. Yeah. They just

have never talked to me. That's a very wrong. Swanson answer, actually. It's a very libertarian

answer, basically, which is like, to each is own. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone should be allowed, you know, they're, they're on trip and to, to like what they like. Um, and last question, Nick, what are you watching listening? Where do you go right now to laugh? Where do you, where, right? There are two shows, 'cause I feel like it comes up a lot that there's not a lot of great, it's not a great time for comedy and television. Um, the, the big hits like hacks and studio, those are, the

make us laugh quite a bit, but there are two that we've really loved that I, that are more obscure that I would love to, your listeners to know about. One's Australian, and it's called Colin from accounts. Yes, I saw it so funny. And also so heartwarming really moves me. Then there's one

“in England called, I think it's called such brave girls. Do you know that show? I do very well.”

Kat, Kat Sadler. And, and I think the credits, the opening credits, the, are the words spelled out in pubic hair on a tile floor on a bathroom floor. And that's, it's a great example of the, the tone of the show. Yes, it's so delightfully filthy and so funny. Um, that is a great show. That's hilarious show. And those ladies are great. There's a lot of good stuff out there. You just gotta find it. I just gotta find it. Um, Nick, did we cover everything?

I think we did. I think so. Yeah. You know, did we, did we weigh in on Aristotle? Yeah, we did. And you said, pass on Cleopatra. You're not going to smash it. Come on. I love you.

England. You just landed. Thanks buddy for doing this. I know, the, imagine how fast I would talk

“if I hadn't just got an awful plan. What should we just try to do this like every month?”

Totally. Um, I love you. Thank you for doing this. I love you. Thank you. And I can't wait to make something else with you soon, someday. Hey, man. Yeah, that would be awesome. But thanks for making for doing this and making this. And thank you for my slapstick. Or is it, is it mine? If you would like it. Oh, no, this is the one you travel with. By all means it says, it says butt on it. It does say butt joined on it. It scares me a little bit. Thank you so much, Nick, off from in for being here today.

I love you. And it's always good to spend time with you. And for this polar plunge, I do want to

just highlight something I didn't get a chance to talk to Nick about, which is, you know, we spoke

“a little bit about the physicality of Ron Swanson and how important it was for him to figure”

out that character. But do yourself a favor when you're watching Parks and Recreation. Take a look at

how Ron runs. It's one of my favorite things about Nick is Ron Swanson runs in a very specific way.

And sometimes he wipes out only wipes out. It's beautiful. It's like stunt level wipe out. But I can't explain other than to say, just gives me total delight. The choice Nick made to run the way Ron runs. And I'm, I'm just circulating for those listening. So you can't see, but it's just so funny. The tucked in shirt, the way Nick sits when he plays Ron Swanson, the way he

“stares, all that stuff is just like a master class. I think in comedic acting and probably, you know,”

what a trained actor learns. And I would know. But anyway, look, it's a genius at work watching Nick work. And so happy he could join us. Thank you for listening to Good Hang and we'll see you soon, bye! You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons, Jenna Weiss-Berman and me, Amy Polar. The show is produced by the ringer and paper kite. For the ringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spalaine, Kaya McMillan, and Alayez and Eris.

For paper kite, production by Sam Green, Joel Lovell, and Jenna Weiss-Berman. Original music by Amy Miles.