Viola Davis

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of Good Hang. We have the best of the best. We have the goat. We have Viola Davis joining us.

And, man, we talk about so many fun things. We talk about growing up in Rhode Island and Boston and how we get rid of those accents. We talk about our mutual best friend, Merrill Streep. We talk about the time she jumped out of a plane and all the swearing she did on the way down.

“And we talk about the new book that she co-wrote with James Patterson called Judge Stone”

out now. So, we're going to get into a lot of great stuff and we're thrilled to have her here.

And, as we always do, we talk to someone at the beginning of the show that we that knows

our guest or is a fan of our guest and has a question for us and we talk well behind their back and boy. We've got just a gem of a person. Julia's tenon, Viola Davis's husband, partner, producing partner, incredible loving, supportive, wonderful man who makes us all believe in love.

He's the only spouse that we've allowed to be on the show so far and the expectation is high. So, I cannot wait to talk to Julia. Julia's, thank you for joining us. Some cars go the extra mile, long-range Subaru hybrids take that to a whole new level.

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Hello, Julia, can you hear me? I can. Hey, it's such a pleasure to meet you. It's a pleasure to meet you too and I just want to say quickly that we love you and you're

always amazing and funny as hell and full and all that stuff so nice to meet you.

Julia, thank you so much. So come. You got me blushing already. Thank you for seeing that. I want you to know that we...

“I mean, I can't tell that about you, I think you say what you mean, you and Viola.”

Yes, we do. Thank you for that. So we do this thing at the beginning of whenever we interview someone, we talk to someone that knows them really well and we get a question for them and we just talk well behind their back and I want you to know you are the first spouse that we have spoken to among

all of our guests. And I think it's because you too seem to actually really like each other. We can do. We can do. Now, pleasure to meet you, Julia, you know, you're an actor, writer, producer, you're

the president of GV Productions, which is the company that you and Viola and others run and you've got an amazing project that you've done and are getting ready to do. But can I start by just asking you to take us back to the day that you and Viola met on set? Oh, wow.

That was incredible. It was 1999. It was City of Angels. I was planning out at these ecologists. She was nursing at Peer and I was passing blood to her and I was a day and a girl at the

time that I wasn't so happy with and then so I said, wow, this lady looks like she could be somebody nice, I could maybe give my card to. So at the end of the day, I gave him my card and I had my shirt on.

The story is Viola said, if my shirt had been off, she would have never called me.

But I had my shirt on and I gave him my card and I said, hey, if you were on a hangout, whatever, whatever, give me a call. Well, she did a month later, she called me. I had literally forgot about it, but I hadn't forgot about her, so when I heard of her, someone, hey, what, and it she invited me to a cast thing for the main cast, because

I was recurring on the show and we went out on a first date almost 27 years ago and here

23 years married coming up this summer, 27 years, it's October.

“So it's been beautiful, but that's how it started.”

I love that story and I love that you guys met just your typical way, just passing blood to each other. Yeah, just passing the regular stuff just passing blood, and she kind of fit in those, you know, she fit in those things pretty good, you know, like, okay, let me give this girl my card.

I mean, what's so sweet about hearing the two of you talk about each other is you both met each other when you were coming up, and what's it like to be, you know, two young actors working hard to make ends meet and, you know, being in love. Listen, it's tough, listen, when I met Viola, she was scared to tell me she had bad credit. I said, baby, it's okay, I got good credit, you know, but it was, it's one of those

tough things, but you know, Amy is about supporting one another, he's one, the other one supports the other equally, and that's what we did. We just went about kind of loving on each other and happy for one another would whatever dropped, whatever happened, and so just so happened that Viola's courageous really started to take off, and it's a beautiful thing, and I'm glad to be a part of it.

People are like, how do you handle it? How do you do it? Whatever, I said, because I know who I am, see what a man just starts with you knowing who you are.

I don't care how powerful your woman is, or what she's doing.

If your woman knows that you can handle yourself and that you know who you are, then she's going to go, wow, hey, my guy's good, and so that's the way Viola and I have roles. So it's about me supporting her and vice versa. So it's just been easy for us. Oh, Julia, every one listening right now is just going, Julia, I'm just gonna play that on

a loop. Well, thank you, and it is the truth, but you're right, but you're right, you're right. Especially on our business, because it can be so competitive, even though we're not competing against each other. I'm a man, you're a woman, but we're not competing against each other, but we're in the

same business. Sometimes that intersection, when one is elevating any other is kind of like not, it can create a lot of different kind of weird kind of energy and things in a relationship. And so listen, what this is what we do is not who we are. This thing, and all this what we do is not who we are.

So we figured that out early on, and so it's just been always easy, because it's always

been a support of one another. That's a beautiful thing because you're reminding me of just the word self in the phrase self-esteem. It really is your own work to do, always. Amy, I can say that I met Viola almost 27 years ago.

She's the same woman I met when I met her all those years ago, hadn't changed a bit. Everything that's happened to her, she's still the same Viola.

“And I think that's what makes people so drawn to Viola, because she's so real and so authentic.”

And we talk about the woman king because congratulations on that. It's so much. What? Yeah. What was that like making that together?

It was a great journey. It was great to be able to do a movie like that because a movie like that hadn't been done in Hollywood ever. Yeah. That's right.

And so be able to do a movie like that and have it come out so beautiful, so accepted by the audiences on a global scale, it meant a whole whole lot to Viola and myself. And so we just went all in despite the challenges, despite not necessarily having enough money to make it, but still saying, you know what, be down. We just going to go make it anyway, because we know it's going to have a cultural impact.

And it's going to be long lasting. And as it turned out, you know, AFI chose it that year to be one of the great films that was made that year. So we're just so proud to have done that together and battling it out, you know, just battling it out.

Like even what you want, you know, as hard as it is, Amy, you just have to keep putting one foot in front of the other.

“If you want something, you have to go for it.”

And that's what Viola and I continually would our team because I'm a big team. Well, I was going to say you're a football ex football player. I am an ex football player. Did you ever coach?

I never coach because you have a coach vibe.

But I was, you know, I'm going to act. I was kind of like, I looked at, you know, my idols back in the day when I was thinking about acting and playing football, you know, it was, it was Jim Brown, Bernie Casey, Fred Williamson, some of the old school guys from way back today, when I was saying shit, they could do it.

I didn't do it. So, you know, that was kind of a thing. Yeah. And, but I always loved the art, so I always loved to start it with poetry.

Well, you have, you have Julius, you have, you have a real coach vibe and you do something that I absolutely love, which is every other sentence you say my name and boy does it work. Every time he's in my name, I'm like, yes, Bernie, he's talking to me, I love it so much. Um, okay, I'm sure you've, uh, you've got a sense now of what Viola likes to be asked

and what she like is asked constantly about and doesn't want to answer anymore.

Like, you know, there's always these questions that are like, you know, people think they're

asking for the first time or topics that, is there anything you would, if you don't mind helping me out to make sure I don't get into an area or a question that she's like, this again.

“Well, you know, I think it would be fun to ask her some questions about some of the funny”

moments that we have together. This one is ask her the origin of Zumi. Okay, ask her, say Viola, what's this whole thing about Zumi, what is that thing? Well, let me just tell you a little bit, it's, it's, it's a animated, uh, Muppet cartoon that I grew up with and the show was called Five Ball XL Five and Zumi was one of the

endearing characters and they were going to space exploration. It was about that and I was a kid. I love that show and so that's a pet name, I gave Viola, I call her Zumi and the reason I do because I love Zumi so much and I love Viola. So that is so endearing to me.

So when I'm calling her Zumi, it's not because of what Zumi looks like, it's because I love the hell out of Zumi. Okay, but I'm going to have to Google Zumi and see what's new. You've got to Google them real quick and you'll see, Farball XL Five and you'll see, but I love Zumi.

So ask her about Zumi. Okay. Other thing is ask her about our first theatrical experience shadow of a gunman.

“You're going to do this one to a play, this shadow of a gunman thing, what is that?”

Viola, give us, let's say I'll tell you, it's kind of a funny story.

The regular questions about the business and all that's, we can always talk about projects

and stuff like that and she's great to talk about that stuff but she often times don't like to talk about the mundane stuff that she has to answer a thousand times but it all surprises me. She's always able to answer this stuff as if it was a new. I'm like, why don't you do that Viola, you know, like, yeah, I'm like, how you doing?

It's okay. She was going to people like I can pull a rabbit out of my ass and I'm going, well, you kind of can. Well, Julius, I know you guys, you're the best couple in the world and you're, we're not going to be able to interview any other spouse after this because you've set such

a high bar. Well, and not like it's a competition but you've worn a gold medal in relationships. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure being with you this morning. Same love talking to you.

“Thank you so much for your time and it's such a pleasure.”

Thanks again. You too. Okay. Take care. Bye.

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I'm so, so happy that you're here. Thank you. Happy to be here. I just I've been like not working for the longest time, so I feel like it's I feel like I'm coming out of hibernation and I'm like holy shit.

This is what I do. Well I gotta tell you, we're gonna start by saying you were the first E-got we've had probably the last. I mean that was not a lot of us. No there's like 18, 19.

I have to tell you that it wasn't until I won the Oscar for fences and someone said,

you'll one step away from an E-got, I never thought of it before.

I said it before. It wasn't like the sort of thing for me. Is that so cool? I mean it just it is and again, not something anyone's like thinking about when they're starting out, but just it's cool.

It's cool. It is it's cool. It's cool. It's not going to be on my great stone, Amy, but it's cool. It is so cool.

My on my great stone is going to be that I interviewed you that way. And also before we get to, I'm just going to say the Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, Timmy, tell him a shout out was so cool.

They shout at me, mama, oh, I mean good company to be in and of course we all agreed with him. But you spoke about it and I love what you said about how you loved his speech. What did you love about it? Because I did too, like the essence of what he was saying in that speech.

Well, because what I loved about the speech is he has a spirit of excellence.

You know, some people, I always negotiate, Amy, so if you feel like I take a long pause,

I'm just negotiating when I'm about to say, so I don't step on toes and I don't work ever again in the industry. But some people don't have the spirit of excellence. They have this spirit of mistaken their presence for the event, for mediocrity, for just beauty.

But it's great that he had this spirit of excellence without putting me in it at all. I'm not saying that. But I love that with young actors. And I also I love when people are, I guess, openly ambitious and in real time saying, I really want to try to get the best out of myself and others like when they say it.

Absolutely. And passion to is different than ego. Yeah, that's right. And I saw the ambition in him and he happens to be incredibly talented. So what kids, like, I like young people listen, just like I love bad kids.

I love a bad kid, like a two-year-old bad kid.

Someone who comes, you know, I had a little bad kid at my wedding, my first wedding.

I had three ceremonies, Amy. But my first wedding, I had a little bad kid who stuck his whole finger in my cake.

“I thought it was the best thing in the world.”

So I love a bad kid. But I also love young people who haven't attitude. I do. So the world is going to get at you, it's going to kick your ass, just leave you in the dumpster. So it's really great when you go out in the world and you have the hutspuff.

Yes. You have that self-position, right? Yeah. That's what I want with my kid. I was so, so much of a good girl, you know, with shitty boyfriends who maybe feel like

shit and I was just still like worshiping at their feet. So yeah, I like, I like attitude. Do you think that's an east coast sink, because we're both east coast, I grew up in Boston, you're Rhode Island. You weren't born there, but you spent most of your time in Rhode Island.

Okay, Boston. Yeah.

“And what's a difference between Boston and Rhode Island?”

Nothing. You still say Florida. You know, if you parked a car on your father and your father and your mother and my dad, I e-grinders and cabinets. Okay.

That's different from the bubble. Yeah, bubble. Mm-hmm. Yeah. The first time I said bubble was at you, which is a watermelon anywhere else.

And I said, you know what the bubble is? And guy literally, he stood there for the longest time. He was like, what the fuck are you talking about? Totally. And he finally said the water fountain, I was like, water fountain with the statues.

Wow, did you say pocketbook instead of purse? Oh, no. Pocketbook all the way. Pocketbook. We could go in there, we could go in there, we could go in there, we could go in there.

And my parents would they would go into a bar, they'd be like, can we have a be a, and

“they'd be like, oh, you're from Boston and how do you know?”

Well, just one word, there's a part of growing up on the East Coast that gives you a directness that I wouldn't want to trade. I like that about people. Yes. But the other side of that coin can be like a roughness, like a just a toughness and roughness.

And you know, Amy, I'm black, so comes with a different set of rules of roughness, you know. And so, you know, I came from playing spoken people. Yeah.

You know, I always say it's like, it's like, I'm negotiating.

Look, I love the sound of you're to go, we should put some music over it when you're thinking about it to say. Yeah, to pop. People too, Parker, but I just remember visiting someone at one point, and I took a bus, and I got off the bus, and I told my friend, well, make sure the person who's coming

to pick me up, they know who I am, okay. I waited there, Amy, 30 minutes, maybe longer, waiting for the person to pick me up. Finally, I find them, I go to my friend, and I said, why couldn't they find me? And he said, well, I described you, I said, well, how did you describe me? Oh, I just said you were cute, and you had a long hair, Amy, I'm black with long braids.

I said, did you tell him I was black? I was the only black girl on the bus, he was like, oh, I didn't feel like I could say. You know, but the thing with, where are you talking about playing spoken thing, but black people, they call it as it is. You know, that black girl who come out, and she got the tattoo on her left to it, and

Yeah. So it's that sort of plain spokenness I grew up with, with my mom and dad, where that plain spoken. Well, you talk, I mean, you've spoken beautifully about your childhood growing up, and the difficulties in it, and the way that you've, like, been processing it in real time as

a adult now.

“And, but I think, and I don't know if this is the same for you as I get older, I start”

trying to look at my, my origin, the place of origin, and figure out what gifts it gave me, and what pain it gave me at the same time, right? And there is this something about growing up in the east coast. I don't know. That sticks with you, and I know this sounds silly, but like the accent that we just did,

like the accent sticks around, I always say like, when I'm angry or really excited, my accent

comes out sometimes. Yeah. Does your accent comes out, too, even when I'm acting, yeah, especially in the emotional scene, it just surprises me, it'll jump out at me. And, you know, of course, I went to a school in New York that kills your accent.

Yeah. You, you get thrown out if you still have an accent at Julia, or I'd buy you four three years. Right. And by my second year, they warned me and said, you cannot come back to the school

until you fix up whatever the hell this is going on. And so I remember, like, every single day for two hours, practicing how to say, father or instead of father, and you know, at Julia, when you speak to, when you're walking around, they put a pencil in your mouth. During rehearsal, they put a pencil in your mouth to see where your tongue is when you're

articulating your sentences.

So I was traumatized into just catapulting that, not realizing that's a beautiful thing.

Yeah. Have you ever got to play anyone with a, you know, with a Rhode Island accent or Boston accent and like, let it rip. No, Amy, nobody's writing a black girl from Rhode Island. Rolls.

Well, maybe we do a Rhode Island. Yeah. Maybe I do right it. Maybe I need to, I mean, I mean, you're, you're, well, you're talking about going to Julia.

And I mean, you've talked a lot about it and you're training there and like, what you took from it. And before you got there, who told you or when did you have that feeling of, I want to, I want to be an actor? It's, the reason I asked, I was, I'm, I'm the daughter of, of school teachers.

No one I knew was an actor. I didn't know any actors. I didn't, like, of course, I knew famous people in movies and TV, but I didn't know that would be a job of mine. But I was in school plays and people would come up and say, you were good.

Yeah. You know, like you have exactly on there. It surprises you, right? Yeah. But for me, it's, um, it's gradual.

So it's hard to pinpoint one person one moment, but I swear to you, the more I think about it, I had to pinpoint the moment that we won the skit contest at Jank's Park when I was eight years old, Amy, that was it. Yeah. Because I was so shy, you know, and brutally shy, like to the point where I couldn't

speak in public. And so we did the skit, you know, and I played the, we kid from that's my mama, that's

“Ted Lang, I don't know if you remember that show.”

I don't want to age you. No, what would you? It's called that's my mama. Okay. And he was a who we kid.

He was a gossipy guy. Okay. And he would come and go, oh, we, we, I got it. I got it. I'm in a reported.

So I was a who we kid. My sister Dolores was, um, what's his name? From let's make a deal. Monti Hall. Monti Hall.

She went Monti Hall. My sister Nita was, uh, was, uh, Esther, on Esther, from Samford and Samford. And my sister, um, uh, Diane was Fred Samford. Oh, my, I think I put, I have it in my book, but we created a, uh, a game show, sort of reality show where we had to come on and tell a story of how you saved the life.

And whoever had the best story won a million dollars.

“What were you, what are you in the, in the birth order of the sisters?”

Um, next to the youngest, so I have one younger sister who was my baby. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So wow. So three.

So four girls in the same family were her saying, like, doing skits, doing Kylie. Haven't we right? Yeah. I'm in rewrites.

We had a little wardrobe budget of $2.50. We'd go to salvation army, you know, or raid my mom's closet. The whole thing was we did the skit contest because we were like, these fucking people in this town, fucker, fucker. I mean, people who like were bullies, you know, and we were like, we're going to stick

it to them. We got to win the confidence once again, the self possession and just being, and everyone in Central Falls was there, people were sitting on rocks, you know, the newspaper

Yeah. And we won. Damn. That must have been so exciting. I mean, it's going to be hard for me to not talk about how great you are this whole

time. To me, that story feels like when a athlete realizes, like, oh, I'm naturally good at hitting a baseball or something, you know, you are so good at what you do. Well, I appreciate that. And the naturalness of what you do combined with your determination and skill is just

so, I mean, I wish I could have a time machine and go back to that day and see you performing because I can only imagine that people pointed at you and said, wow, well, I don't know if anyone pointed at me and said, wow, but I pointed at myself. That's right. Wow.

And how do you go from there to jewelry art?

How do you, you know what, we'll never know, but what do you audition with to get

to do the art? I auditioned with Seely from color purple. God, that was my dramatic and then I auditioned with a sort of comedy piece from God. Damn it. I'm forgetting.

Oh, boy. But it was sort of French comedy. Like, like, first, like a first kind of thing. Uh-huh. Yeah.

I mean, when you were doing Shakespeare, what do you have a weight of memorized Shakespeare art, like, how do you like to memorize? It's a process. Yeah.

“So you have to figure out who you are, what you live for, all that other stuff that nobody”

ever wants to hear about, by the way, it's so boring. It really is important. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. But what I, what is cool about it is I think that the skill involves with the, you

know, the hard work, which is the theme I would say of looking at your body of work and

your life is that you just have never shy to away from hard work.

You've never run away from it. And memorizing is really hard. memorizing is, you know what memorizing is the least difficult part of acting. Oh, I, I think I, these days, I'm, these days, I'm not, it's so hard. I'm lately, it's like, I was just saying, you know, when you have another actor looking

in your face and they're waiting for the line, now I'm big with this. And then you know that someone is draw, I, I did this with Merrill Street, you know? And that, she had a line, I had a line or whatever, and then nothing. I'm looking in her face, nothing. She's saying nothing.

I'm saying nothing. It's obviously someone dropped the line and then I realized she's a one and drop the line. Oh, my God. Thank God. So then we did it three more times, three more times that scene.

She kept dropping the line. Yeah. And in my brain, I was like, say the fucking line, of course. But I can't tell Merrill Street, you forgot the line. Right.

You keep forgetting the line.

“And finally, we did it, and she was like, why does something feel off?”

And I said, because you keep forgetting the line, if you have the line, Merrill. And she's like, I'm not perfect. And then she knows. She just said, "Why didn't you say something?" (laughing)

And you did say something, but the Shakespeare itself feels just like you really got up. I guess your point you got to just keep living in it, living in it. - Well, here's the hardest thing about Shakespeare too. - Please. - What the hell are you saying?

- What the fuck are you saying? (laughing) - What are you saying? - What are you saying? - What are you saying?

- What are you saying? - What are you saying? - What are you saying? - What are you saying? - What are you saying?

(laughing) - But I went to jewelry art and you don't want it to be boring. - Listen, they're not going to kill you for that.

Here's the thing about Shakespeare.

All it is is people acting it and listening to it and going like this. And I'm like, you don't know what you're talking about. And we don't know what you're saying.

“- Well, well, well, well, here's the thing too.”

And if you don't know what they're saying, then they're not doing it correctly. - Exactly. - But you can't say, you know what, it's boring. - I know!

- And jewelry art, I would fall asleep a lot. Oh my God, I have a friend who it would piss her off. As soon as I was in the class, we'd have the greatest actors, the greatest Shakespearean actors in the world

come to the school within five minutes. I would be dead, sleep. I would be knocked out with my lip in my lap. I mean, I would be knocked out. And to this day, she was like,

I can't even believe you would do that. I can't believe you would do that. And I said, did you ever occur to you? - Did it just didn't excite me? - But that's the thing with Shakespeare.

because you don't want it to be boring. - Here's the thing.

“It's just about people to be can be kings and kings.”

- I mean, it's a soap opera, most of the time, those plays. But I mean, thank you for saying that because the thing about art in general is, if you don't figure out how to find a way in sometimes you feel really strange

when everybody else is in there. And you're like, what is it? How come I can't connect? - Yeah, by Amy, let me taste something. We going down the road,

talk it by acting like it's real deep. People don't see it. I see it is deep. You see it is deep. Most people do not see it is deep.

Because once again, it's about mistaken. You're present for the event. It's about, that's right. - I mean, my big thing, I love scenes. I can't stand love scenes.

I can't stand watching them. I can't stand doing them.

I'm like, I finally said how to get away with murder.

I'm not doing any more love scenes anymore. I mean, you write a love scene, I'm not doing it. And last, you give me a boyfriend who has a stomach. - Wait, say more. - A big gut.

- Yeah. - And you know why? - Why?

“- 'Cause you'll actually write the scene.”

You won't be able to take it off the show and the six pack abs. - That's right. - I mean, I'm watching. I did a scene with Billy Brown, who I love, all Billy Brown love everyone.

And it's TV. - Yeah. - So, Annelys Keating is in bed. Annelys Keating is sort of sleeps with a lot of people, men, women, which cannot be any of.

- Said for me. - I mean, I like, oh my gut. So, and I'm in bed, I'm laying down and everything. And then he gets up with his underwear. And they, I mean, they literally just

taking his underwear down, putting his makeup on. And he's got his abs. And then they want him to walk into the bathroom and come out with, you know, one of those grub brushes and slap it on his hand as if he's slapping my ass.

So he's like, slap, slap, slap. As we're saying, the dialogue, I'm in the scene, I mean, I'm like, you got to cut. - You got to cut. - He's cut.

- That's my nightmare. That's a nightmare. - It's a friggin' nightmare. - That's a nightmare.

“- So I said, if you write someone with a gut, maybe we won't be in bed,”

maybe it will be about everything else. - Yeah.

- And finally, kids, it's like something that's organically happening.

But right now, for me, a lot of love scenes, it's like, that's the time to go to the bathroom. (laughing) - You want to pick up going to the bathroom? You come back, you haven't missed anything.

Oh my God, I feel you, I feel you. I'm not done many, but the couple of times has been on the call sheet, I'm like, oh no. This is the worst day. And anyway, by the way, anybody that's like,

ooh, I got a love scene today, red flag. (laughing) - I had to do a love scene with Tom Verica, who cannot be loved more lovely. How to get away with murder.

First love scene. Well, actually my first love scene was with Billy Brown and the, and they got cut. And I'm so happy it got cut. (laughing)

'Cause we were having sex on my car and Philadelphia, it was 12 degrees. - I was terrified.

First love scene in my life,

but the second love scene, Tom Verica, who plays my husband on a getaway murder. So we're getting prepared for the love scene in the trailer. And the makeup artists are saying, "So do you not anything to cover?"

I mean, I have stretch marks. - Yeah. - I mean, I got stretch marks everywhere. I could stretch them with my hands. I could stretch them with my arms.

I could stretch them with my arms everywhere. I'm just gonna say it. - We all did. - And so, I'm like, yeah, I want makeup. I want makeup on my arms.

- Yeah. - I want makeup on my ass. And it's like, I got makeup on my ankles. Okay, he's getting makeup on. I mean, which is basically supporting ourselves.

- We're gonna make up. Both of us terrified, okay? And then finally, I had the big aha moment. I think it's a Tom. This is what we're gonna do.

We're gonna hold it up for the regular people. - Yes. - We're gonna hold it up for the people out there who may have a little bit of something sticking out there, whatever.

- And there was makeup all over the sheet. (laughing) Make up all over the bed, you know. You know, thank God, my wig didn't come off, you know. And that was--

- There's nothing sexy about it. Nothing, when you do a love scene in my opinion, there's nothing sexy about it. It's just, it's hard. You're search for the realness and things,

like the way you're looking for the truth and things in your own life and in your work. It, it dovetails so beautifully with August Wilson. Can you talk about how you felt about doing his work and like how important he is to you as a writer?

It's our cadence is, it's my mom, my dad, my father, it's how we talked.

“You know, I listened to them how I talked, you know.”

And that's the beauty of it because, you know, otherwise listen, I went to Julia, and we were doing George Bernard Shaw, Stringbird, you know, check off who I love, you know, Shakespeare. So, I did blanched a ball.

I mean, it was just a scene, but I have to do, if you've ever read blanched a ball, I could not be any different than blanched a ball. She's extremely fragile. - Yeah.

- You know, fading, beauty queen. You know, all of those things. So to see, and to hear me, you know, take my deep voice and try to will it down and sound like a white southern woman and doing all that.

- It was like, oh my, I can't do this. I mean, I shouldn't say I can't do it. I can do it. I can transform, I could do all of that. But then, you know, people in the audience,

I've got it, you know, let me ignore the fact that this is a deep voice, black woman is self-possessed and very grounded and is not, but with August. - Yes. - I don't do anything.

- Yeah. - I still have to do the work. But I could do a work in a way that invites me in, you know, and that's the beauty of, that's a beauty of August Wilson. - And you nominated for a Tony three years after you get out

of school? For that, I mean, do you remember when you found out

“you were nominated, that must have been incredible feeling?”

- I found out I was nominated, you know, back in the day, back in the day, when you had those answering machines who had to call, you had to call the answer machine. I would call every single day to see if I had an audition. So I called and my agent at the time said,

"By all of you got a Tony nomination, oh my god." I ran to my parents' house, they don't know what a Tony award is. And my little niece isn't that thin, I know what the hell a Tony award is. I ran into the house, I said, you guys,

my little niece isn't that fused, they were in their diapers, running around acting bad, like I loved that kid. I ran into the house, and I said, you guys, I got a Tony nomination, and they started throwing themselves

on the floor and know what the hell a Tony nomination was. But we're all just chatting, I mean.

- That's all, amazing. - Come on.

You're the best player in your school, you just have to believe in what you're talking about. - No, not at all. You're the best player in your school. - You're the best player in your school? - Yeah, exactly.

You're the best player in your school, which you just understand. You're the best player in your school or in your home. You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home.

- You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home.

- You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. You're the best player in your school or in your home.

- You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home. - You're the best player in your school or in your home.

- You're the best player in your school or in your home.

But there was never a time when I was at the Guthrie Theatre

working in Newton, Massachusetts. I've worked everywhere. I worked with everyone, Huntington Theatre, ACT, more tape or form, Goodman Theatre. - I thought I had already made it.

- Yeah. - I did. - You know, making your 650 a week and then you did your 10 weeks and then you qualified for unemployment. So you got your unemployment and true.

You called an unemployment every Sunday. Got that 350. I think it went up to $390 a week. I thought I'd already made it because I could say that I'm an actor. But you do have to put in those hours.

- Yeah.

“- In order to have some level of a process because here's what I think.”

Where I whenever I do a job. This is my thing with actors. It's a little bit of my pet peeve. A little bit. Is this, if you have a criticism for a writer,

you'd never have it for another actor.

You don't criticize them.

Okay, I don't care if it's a day player.

You don't tell anyone not to act. That's the director's job. - Oh, I love that. - If you have a criticism of the work. If you say, you know this scene is not working.

You have to tell them why. And you have to know how to fix it. I will say, once again, I'm negotiating. I would say 98% of the time people don't know how to fix it. - Yeah, that's such a great point.

Because I've often said that actors should spend a day being a writer getting notes from actors because the way that people give writers feedback is often appalling. It's not just actors anybody, but the way writers receive feedback is dismissive.

It's insulting. They don't have a fix to your point. Something they've worked really, really hard on. They handed over and people just kind of open it up and barely pay attention to what they barely read it.

They don't know the words. They don't, they don't, they're challenging stuff before it's even tried out. And then conversely, I say to writers, now put on someone else's clothes.

Go over there and scramble an egg.

“Well, you remember two pages of dialogue”

while everyone you know is on the other side of the room drinking coffee looking at you. And then we're even. - Yeah, absolutely. Whenever you have to fix a script,

sometimes it's really not that deep to fix something. It could be a simple choice. But what happens is the filter that goes through is, okay, is it going to get more viewers? People go to want to see, it's going to turn on

the 18 to 34-year-old boys who come see the movie. That's a big one, Amy. - Oh yeah, I mean the boys. - The boy and also, will men care? Will men care about this project and it's like,

- Yeah, that was the woman came. - Oh yeah, I bet there was a lot of discussion about like, we want to make sure a men show up. And it's like, do we? Do we want to make sure a men show up?

Like these days? Me too.

“I mean like, maybe they don't come to this one.”

- Exactly. - How about we just make one? We just make one for us, doesn't one. - I'm playing a Goji Warrior.

I've just chopped off five men's heads in the first two minutes.

And maybe it's just not for them. I mean, it's like, it's like a lot of the notes were, you know, less dirt and more lipstick. Are you freaking kidding me? - Wild.

Are you kidding me? - Wild. - I'm playing a Goji Warrior. And I'm thinking about lipstick. And I lash extensions.

- That film, you are so badass in that film. That film is so beautiful. I love it. You and your husband produced it together. You generated it and made it for yourself.

Such an example of like taking the currency that you had and using it and making that project. And the thing I wanted to ask you about woman king, the woman king, is, and for people that don't know, it's based on a real story for people that don't know about it.

Could you explain what it was based on? - And based on the Goji tribe of warriors in the homey in Benin, West Africa in like 1854. And they were all female army unit that would go out and fight neighboring tribes.

And you know, Europe but tribes. Now, you know, the controversy is, is there was a lot of controversy, you know, involved with the Goji warriors. Because it would have slaves. Okay.

“I think ultimately that is what maybe people had problems with”

and the other problem is, you know, it was an all black cast, mostly female cast. Mostly, without getting into it,

because there will never be enough time in the world.

Dark skin females who have muscles and who are taking men down. I mean, I trained for five hours a day and I was the oldest mother of freaking warrior in the movie. So we trained five hours a day for months and the hand combat. I have to tell you though, with that movie,

without getting too much into it. Because there's a lot about that movie. - Yeah. - That was like very important to me. - Yeah. I didn't think it was a big deal for women

to be warriors. - Right. - I didn't think that it was a big deal to have a title like the woman king. - Mm-hmm.

- Because first of all, there's a lot of kings who are women in Africa. They actually called kings. I don't know that that was going to be a controversy. Until we did it. - Mm-hmm.

- I thought this is badass. I mean, I would take my toy machete home to practice with my husband. I mean, not a run my husband because he was saying,

But I just didn't know it was a big deal until we started shooting it.

“And there was, you know, can we make your curls looser and more pretty?”

- Mm-hmm. - Could we do eyelash extensions? - Mm-hmm. - Maybe a different title. You know, this whole sort of watering down.

- Yeah, this idea of just don't forget to stay soft. - Yeah. - Like while you're the hardest warrior ever, don't forget to be a little bit cute and soft. Because God forbid, you just step into your full power.

- Absolutely, and God forbid that you don't turn me on. - That's right. - That you don't look sexy. And, you know, it sort of leads into the whole thing of the value of beauty. - Mm-hmm.

- You know, that's right. - I mean, I'm definitely like, at 60 years old, I feel fat because I am one of those women. I got that done and over with very, very early in life. You know, I feel for the beautiful women who were younger.

And now they're older and they walk in the room and no one's looking at them. - Yeah, that's tough when beauty is your number one currency because it goes away fast. - Exactly. - It's really fickle.

- Yeah. - But I will say, and you spoke about this when you were doing the woman king, like, the way in which you created this new relationship to your body

“in your 50s, I think a lot of women, I know a lot of women.”

I know I speak for myself, you start to really take, you really kind of look and you say, okay, this is my one body. I really, you know, the ways in which I got to kind of put it in the, on the back burner in my 20s and 30s, I really have to pay attention to it now.

And I've joked on here, like, we got to eat 85 grams of protein and we have to lift weights. But you did that. You, what, what did you learn about yourself when you were training five hours a day? - You know what Amy was the first time I could walk into a room

with that, it was a leather sort of shirt I had on armor that I had on and so my stomach was exposed. It was the first time I could walk on the field and in a room and totally be in my body. You know, there is something about the female body,

what your sort of condition to believe about it that it's got to be beautiful, right? - Yeah. - So it's got to be thin and beautiful. And the why and the how it has to be beautiful

is always tied to male desire ability.

- That's right. - It's never tied to being capable. - It's tied to a shrinking.

“- Yeah, exactly, shrinking and not being capable,”

not being strong, not being, you know, it's never ours. - Yeah. - And so even in the practicing, I was going to lie a little bit.

I was going to lie a little bit. - Wow, it was a little tiring. Like I hope you can't hear anything. - No, not really. - This is what the lie was.

- Okay. - This is what the lie was, Amy. - Okay, music for negotiating. - You know, hit 'em up by two poth. (laughing)

- I was going to say, you know, if, you know, just in the, in the practicing because we would do an hour of weight lifting, 30 minutes of running on the treadmill at 10 point out. - Oh, no, I've done 10.0.

That is a disaster. - And it was 30 minutes straight of 10.0. Like was it sprints? - Sprints. - God dammit.

- And then three and a half hours. I mean, by the end, I mean, and so all these young girls, they'd have a little sweat on their bodies. I would sweat out three, four shirts a day.

So I would go to Corio for three and a half hours and you're taking down eight seven dudes at the same time, okay? Eight seven dudes. What I was going to say is, you know,

it was, it was so great because then I could really tap into the part of me

that I never tapped into before.

That's bullshit. I was always that girl that wanted to kick someone's ass and probably did a couple of times, but it gave me permission to do it.

- Yes. - And I mean, there was one guy, the huge 64 to 60. I mean, come on. - That's exciting. - And I felt like I could do it.

- Yeah. - Now, whether I could do it or not in real life, who knows, but the feeling like I could. - You have stood toe to toe with such amazing actors, Denzel.

You talked about Merrill. You worked with Chadwick. When you're in that zone with people that good and you're like, what is it? I guess I'm asking you like, what's it like

to be in the world series? - Yeah, exactly. And now piss in your pants. Well, what Merrill, that was it.

She's so great. - She's funny. - And funny and cool. - And cool. - It's like, Merrill.

“- It's like, you could be that great in that cool.”

- Well, you're like that too. That's why you guys are so good because you're so good. That you don't have to be assholes because you know how good you are.

- And you know those assholes. - Yes, because they're not that good. You know, of course, and say they're not being led by insecurity. So you and Merrill meet, of course,

you guys are friends and like, respect each other as you both. - I followed her everywhere. - On set? - On set.

- I mean, to the point where it was like, you know, when you say to yourself, okay, tomorrow I'm not going to do that because I don't think it didn't make her feel comfortable. Because at one point,

she would never admit this.

She probably doesn't remember it. But she was going to set. And I was trying to keep her from going to set. Because I was too excited. So I was like, so how's it going?

She was like, oh, good. So I'll see you later. She was going upstairs.

“And then I was like, so I was going good, right?”

So the day was really good. And you know, when someone's trying to do something and you're stopping them from doing it. And they don't feel like they don't want to be rude to you by going shut the fuck up.

I got to get to set. So she was being really nice. And I said, okay, so I'll see you later. So I was working next week. So I worked next week.

You know, she was like, yeah. Yeah. So that was the first day. And then I was like, I'm not going to do that tomorrow. So I'm not going to do that tomorrow.

I went back tomorrow. - Oh, yeah. - I was sitting there. And then I'm staring at her. And I'm really shy.

She's not that shy. She's not so the shy, but not that shy. So then I don't, because I'm not going to be a small talk. And I go, longest pause. And then I said, can I get you some teeth?

And she said, she said, no, baby, no, you don't have to get me any teeth. And I was like, okay. So I couldn't think of anything else. I kept staring, staring.

And you could tell. So you don't want you to say, you could tell. She was really trying to be gracious.

“And the only thing I could come up with is like,”

you got beautiful skin. I don't want. I actually said that to mirror screen. I love you.

And then finally my husband, who was like,

me, did you tell that woman that you love her work? You didn't tell that woman you love her work. I said, well, Julie, I just, you see, when I get to that damn set, I'm going to tell her that I love her work. And I'm going to tell her that she is your favorite actress.

I said, don't say that. And Julie's finally came to the set. And he said, bye. Oh, love, loves you so much. And you are so beautiful, Meryl.

You are such a wonderful actress. She blushed. She was like, oh, Julie. Well, I have met Julius and Julius is something else. Do you find, I mean, I know, I find that sometimes in my life,

people want me to be funny. And they're a little disappointed when I'm not quite bringing it. Do you feel conversely that sometimes people assume that you're going to, like, exchange and something very deep and serious with them? And you just want to laugh all the time.

Because I feel like what I'm learning about you is that you love, you love to joke around and laugh. Oh, but I mean, I can't really even joke around like I want, because I'm, yeah, dirty with it. Fantastic.

Why can't you?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

You don't want to go down like that, Amy. No, you don't want to go down. Okay, but I'm dirty with it. Who did you love, girl? Like who were you?

Oh, the first one. Who do you love? Mom's maple. Oh, yeah. And she was dirty, dirty.

So dirty. I would play that album over and over again. Flip Wilson. Yes. Red Fox.

Red Fox. So dirty. The dirty is a better. Yeah. We can't go there.

Yeah. So funny. Yeah. Yeah. So you would play those records when you were at, oh, I would.

Yeah. And you know why, too? Because they told stories. Mm-hmm. And come on, the original dirty of the dirtiest of the

funniest is Richard Prior. Yeah. Whenever I feel down, I play that live and concert. Mm-hmm.

Over and over and over again. Oh, my God. That's just the best. And he talks about his kids. One part, but he talks about his kids and how he does know how to swim.

And every time he gets into the pool, he's drowning. He's basically drowning. And his kids are like, "Ah, Dad, he's so funny." And he's like, "You motherfuckers, I'm drowning." No.

It's like, I love that. Yeah. Okay. Now, I want to get to your book before we finish because, you know,

I mean, I'm sure you have, you know, we talked about it earlier this idea of like,

when you're acting and you're writing and you're working with writers. And what that kind of writing looks like. And then there's the different kind of version of writing when you're writing book when you're writing fiction. And when you're writing a memoir, at which your memoir was a huge hit.

You won the Grammy, that was your egot was your, when you did the recording of it, when you read your book on tape. And that book came out a while ago. And I'm curious, you know, when we write about our stories and then they go out into the world and everybody gets to kind of, you know,

read them and process them.

“Have you ever heard from anyone from your past after that book came out?”

I hear from various ones all the time. My fourth grade teacher in fourth grade, I had the story in my book that was, and I actually went back to my fourth grade class to the actual classroom. But my fourth grade, that was almost the height of my dysfunction, my dysfunctional life.

But in the book,

it still has a lot of shame for me.

And I would go to school, I would smell so bad. I mean, there are no words for it, okay? And this teacher that I had that I loved. I loved her Mrs. Cody. She sent pictures to my sister,

who was a school, she was a school teacher in Central Falls. She sent all these pictures that she had saved of me. Wow. I have no pictures of my childhood. She saved these pictures, and she saved some of my writing.

Wow. And in one of the pictures, I was at a museum looking at this sculpture, and all the kids were behind me, who were in my class.

But I was looking at this sculpture, and my mouth was gapped open in awe. And I thought to myself,

“you captured something in me that I didn't know I had in me.”

It was already that when something was beautiful, when something was created, the head, that I would have no connection to otherwise, I saw it. That was in one of the pictures,

and she told my sister that she never forgot me as a student.

And she was the one who actually told me that I needed to go to the nurse one day, because I smelled so bad, that my mom had to get some soap and hot water, and you need to wash yourself, because the odor is too much.

She was a teacher who told me that, and I loved her. That's why it hurt so bad. Yeah. Once again, the paradox, right?

She's looking out for you. But feeling ashamed, she's the one who I felt shame me. She didn't really shame me. Do you know what I'm saying? But that was a big one.

I mean, it feels like writing has been something

“that's been a big thing that you've wanted to do for a long time.”

And then you write, you're now co-written a book with James Patterson. It's on my shelf. That's right here. Dead stone.

Judge Stone. Book is out. Yeah. What is it about? It is about a 13-year-old girl named Nova,

who has an abortion, who gets raped and has an abortion. And union springs, Alabama. Alabama has this strictest abortion laws. And the doctor who performs the abortion is now on trial for murder. So it is definitely to kill a mockingbird.

It is just it's pulsating. It's all of those things. But, you know, even like to kill a mockingbird, which, you know, the courtroom was pulsating, you know, Tom Robinson.

It was just just heart-stopping, right? But the character is within it. Mm-hmm. But just as memorable as the trial. That's what I feel about, you know,

Judge Stone and James Patterson is like, "Well, y'all, you can do anything." No, I can't. I can't, you know. Tell us why we can't do.

Oh. I can't bake. Okay. You know. You could probably learn.

I have a 15-year-old at home. It's like, it's just me. And you're probably out of the teen years. No, I'm right in the middle of it. I got a 15 and a 17.

I'll have a 15-year-old. Yeah. There's no easier way to feel uncool than when your kid, your teen kid looks at you like, "What?" I'm not cool.

No. But you're not supposed to be cold. You're a kid. If you're a cold, you're a kid. That's weird.

I know. I think so. I do. Nobody wants to be the parent that, like, hangs with their kids.

I don't want to go to an escape room.

No! You don't have to. You don't have to. I tried to. That's why I jumped out of a plane.

“I tell people, "I jumped out of a plane."”

What? Oh. Oahu. Hawaii. I jumped out of a plane to be cool for my daughter.

I did, Amy. What year was this? Just recently? I was 57, 56, 56, 57, so I'm 60 now. Yeah?

What did you think of jump? What was it like? Did you? Was it awful? It seems awful.

It seems awful. It truly seems like awful. Have you ever jumped out of a plane? Oh, I'm not jumping out of a plane. I jumped out of a plane because we had the most awesome nanny.

When I say awesome, it's like, everyone else is great nanny. And ours was like, "God." Okay? She jumped out of the plane. You know, you're jumping in tandem with someone.

He's talking like, "I was going to say you're jumping in tandem with someone you met yesterday." Yesterday. And he was like, "So, by all, you know, you're great actors." So, what do you like better theater of film? And I want to say, "Shut up your mom."

You're like, "Focus Zach." My favorite movie is "The Parish You Working." And look at, "That's yummy, mommy, back in or right there." And that erupted in when I'm fucking like a parking lot. And then they roll up, and they say, "Okay."

So, let's go. That's cool. I mean, Viola, that's about us that you did that.

I will never do it again.

Although, although it was a terrific experience. I told my daughter as I was falling down. Because she said, "Mama, if you die, can I have your wings in your money?" So, I'm falling down. So, I'm falling down.

I'm falling down. And I told her, "Don't listen to Mama. Don't listen to me.

“I think every cuss word that I can possibly imagine."”

I mean, it was coming out of my mouth. You had no idea. [laughter] But I did it because of Molly. Did it?

You did it because of Molly. And you and Julius, we talked about your husband a little bit. You guys have, like, when you do stuff together, and you talk publicly together, you laugh a lot. You laugh a lot, and you laugh.

Amy. You have fun. I mean, look, your relationship is very aspirational. And I don't want to project upon it, because I know everyone's relationship is their own private. You know, a relationship is like a country with its own set of rules,

and you don't really know it unless you live there. But what it seems like is you have the best relationship ever, and you have a wonderful marriage and beautiful, a very partner. It's fantastic. It drives me crazy.

I drive him crazy. I want to hit him, but then I, the love of my wife. Yeah. You know, he's just a love of my life. Yeah.

And when I say laugh, no, Amy, I mean, just he is a character. And every time he comes up in public, you know, he puts, you know, the brave, the mask and everything on. But the guy is absolutely hysterical. I mean, and does the artist things that, for me, is a little bit of me that says, is he crazy?

He could be crazy. I mean, he lost his salt. He couldn't find his saltine crackers one day. That's his saltine, damn crackers. And he was convinced that someone broke into a house

was living in our attic and had stolen his saltine crackers.

“And so I was like, why are you walking around the house with a baseball bat?”

Me? There's some, I can't find my saltine crackers, me. I said, well, did you look in the cabinet behind the tuna fish? And they said, there was four packages, me. Now there's only three packages left.

V, do someone in that attic. And here's for me, what for me is about love. I was like, oh, my God. I, he's crazy. They're someone living in the attic.

And what did I do? I grabbed my baseball bat, too. And we looked for the person together in the attic.

And until I finally found the saltine crackers here, the tuna fish.

And it's just like, I love it. I do. I know you, I know you, I know you, I know you. I love it. And you know what?

I'm talking about this mom and just the stories, he's another one they could tell. Well, we talked to him before your interview. And I want you to know, he's the only spouse we've talked to. In the, you know, we do a thing where we kind of talk well

behind somebody's back before they come in. And I get a question to ask our guest. And Julius was the only spouse we wanted to talk to,

really like each other. And, but he spoke so beautifully. Of course, about you, Vila. But he also speaks to a bigger idea of what women, a lot of women, yearn for and hope for,

which is that somebody really sees them. Like, somebody sees them in real time and celebrates their wins. Oh, yeah. And he does. He does. You seem like you do that for each other.

Oh, yeah, totally. And again, a simple thing to say, but sometimes hard to find like that, do you think that is the secret to why you've

“been together so long is the way you do that for each other?”

You know, by the time I met Julius, I absolutely understood what love is.

You know, first of all, I thought he was cute.

You know, I thought he had a tight ass. I'm not from Liding in Amy. Yeah, don't. Yeah, the tight ass. You know, full ball player. So can't say.

You guys were actors on the set. I know that. And you blow and you were a high nurse's outfit. Yeah, and that was like he's really cute. And I was really lonely.

And so that was it. Of course. I mean, I just with him. It was, and I prayed for a football player tight dude, you know, and it was him.

Yeah. And, um, but you know what got me with him is. He told me his story because he's a talker. But he told me his whole story from the giddy up. Cool.

Everything. Good and bad. No chaser, you know, he raises kids on his own. He's been married, you know, all of those things.

It just, and for me, it opened me up.

He's just a dude. He's been wired right. Yeah, yes.

“Well, he has three really weird questions for me to ask you.”

I know he's great in every way, but I don't understand these questions. Okay. Julius. Julius, one of them is, tell Ask her about Zuni.

Who is Zuni, and can I Google it? Because Julie is who's talking about a TV show that he grew up with. I've never heard of. Power XL5. What?

I don't know Amy. Zuni. Amy. It's a cartoon with puppets that he watched when he was a kid. Wow.

Do you see Zuni? Hold on. Z, you and I. Okay. You see Zuni?

No. With the giant head. Yeah, you see that. You see that. Let's see, let's see.

And you, you pressed in the images of it. See. Yeah. It's Zuni. Okay.

Zuni. Z, oh, oh, and I. Oh, Z, okay. That's why I said that to. Okay.

I do it. I'm a classic spell in something wrong. For your listeners, Zuni looks like. Zuni. Who's Zuni?

Look. No.

“We were laying in bed and Joey said, "V."”

You know who you look like? What's it for? So that I met you. I was like, "She made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside." She lied me of somebody I know.

And then I thought about it. Zuni. You look like Zuni. That's who you all of these Zuni. And that's the, this is the show they would watch every Saturday.

He was the only one in this family who wanted to watch you. I can't believe the show. It looks like it's dolls. It's dolls and puppets. Dolls and puppets.

And he was the only one who wanted to watch it. None of his brothers and sisters wanted to watch it. They say, "Mom, Joey is, he won't watch. We don't want to watch Zuni." And his mom would say, "Let that, let that damn boy watch it Zuni."

That's all you talk about. Lily. Zuni. Zuni. Watch that damn Zuni.

Get your ass out of the house after you watch it as Zuni. So, Zuni, I remind him of Zuni. And Zuni is big lips and big eyes. It's like almost like a little ferret meets a sloth meets a Amy. No, Amy.

It's cute. That's messed up. No, it's cute. I call him Ferdinand because he looks exactly like Ferdinand. Ferdinand symbol?

Ferdinand symbol? Yeah, we named people. He looked just like Ferdinand. Okay. The other question he wanted me to ask you is, ask her about shadow of a gunman.

He's setting you up for some story. Oh, he's setting me up.

It was one of our first dates.

He said, "V." You want to come. If you know him, you would know that this is a great imitation of jealous. V. One of my friends is doing shadow of a gunman.

You know that play. You know that Irish play, Sean O'Casey. Shadow of a gunman. In some small theater of Abbot Kenny Boulevard in Santa Monica. So, we go to see shadow of a gunman.

And I'm walking and going, "Oh, we're going to see some theater." And so, we go to the theater. We walk in. And I'm like, "Okay, let's sit in the front." Ninety-nine seats.

No one's at the theater. So, let's sit in the front. He was like, "Oh, we ain't sitting in the front. Let's sit all the way in the back. Let's sit up in the back."

I was like, "But Julius, we're all the way in the back."

We sit up in the back.

He's got the chair now the wall.

As soon as the curtains grow up, he's dead asleep. The only one who wants to sit in the wall is to take a nap all throughout the play. And the only time he woke up is when he thought some sex scene was going to happen. He woke up for two seconds. He woke up for two seconds thinking he was going to see some good moodemists as we call it.

And nothing happened. It was the worst production in the world. At all my gun. Oh my god. And then afterwards he went up to his friend and he said,

"I love that performance." You were fit and you know when you did that thing. Oh my god. That thing you did. It was like Julius, you slept through that old day of performance.

[laughter] What are you guys watching, listening? What's making you laugh these days? Where do you get your comedy? In bed.

Yes, with each other. With each other. It sounds like... Oh my god. With his imitation.

Yes. No, Amy. Like, I mean, just absolutely hysterical. Yeah. It's so funny. It's so funny here how you guys like to play.

Oh yeah. Like, it really feels like there's like a young version of you. Like, heal the young versions of you. I mean, together. This morning, we were just talking.

When I first, when we first got together, and they wanted me to do the play that I won my first Tony Award for. Yeah.

“But I remember when I was offered the role.”

And I said, I don't know if that role is good enough for me. Julius.

First of all, can I just tell you, I never talk like this.

So the fact that I remember talking like this, shows you that I'm full of shit. So I said, Julius, that role is not good enough for me. And he's sitting in the living room. He's just listening to me.

He just got out of the shower. I said, this role is not good enough for me. And, you know, they think I'm going to go to New York. And they think I'm going to do A, B, and Sage. And they think I'm going to do that role.

I need to leave role. I need to get the lead role. And bubble, bubble, bubble. And he's listening, listening, listening. And then there's a pause.

And I said, so what do you think Julius, he said? This is what I think we. You need to take your ass to New York. And you need to do that damn play. Because he has a thing.

You ain't got to go damn job. And we're not bringing in any damn money.

“So you need to go on and take your ass to New York and do that play.”

And we talk about that all the time. You know, those moments. Yes.

You know, of when I told him for the first time that I had the most horrific credit.

Yeah. And I was about to cry. And I said, my credit score was 500. And I kept that as a secret because he was so organized and together and responsible. You know, and I said, Julius, I have to tell you something.

You said, okay, be go ahead, tell me. I said, Julius, I have bad credit. And he said, I knew your black ass had bad credit from the moment I met you. I could tell by the way, you dressed in everything you all over the day. I'm placed.

That's okay. I know you starting to cry. Come over here. We use my credit. Don't worry about it.

I knew your black ass had bad credit. And that was it. Like moments like that. Yeah. Oh, so, levity, levity of safety, safety of connections.

Yes. You know, the freedom that I had to tell him I had bad credit. But, but also how he helped me build from there. Yeah. That's the thing.

Yeah. That was my big thing. I finally found it. Someone who makes your life better. Mmm.

That's love. I think so. Yeah. That's that's what a healthy relationship looks like. That's how it is.

And it's how it is.

“To end our convo today, what's the best thing about being in your 60s?”

It's the next decade up for me. And, I mean, I've been loving my 50s more than my 40s. I'd more and more and more and more. What, what, what, what, what is what are you loving about your 60s? In your 60s, your life is yours.

Mmm. That's the best part of it. Your life is yours. You realize that, you know, it's, it's a quote, but it's, it's been running through my mind. Is, I know, it's sort of morbid.

But on your last day on earth, the definition of hell is your last day on earth. Who you became meets the person you could have become? Mmm. I feel that that's 60s, man. Mmm.

Because all that bullshit that I was told in the past that, you know, I had to make a certain amount of money. Or to be smart enough or pretty enough or thin enough or whatever.

Yeah.

My life right now is about what I love.

Who loves me and what I leave behind. That's it. It is clean.

“And it's given me a certain level of bravery, too.”

Now if I could put some hormones in there, that would be good. That's amazing. It makes me really look forward to what's ahead. Yeah. Yeah.

It's the other stuff, too.

But we don't talk about that.

We don't talk about that. We'll get, we'll deal with that when it comes. My only Davis, I, it means so much so you did this. Thank you. Thank you for being here today and for talking to me and for doing the show.

It's, I just absolutely adore you and your work. Well, I love you, too.

“And I'd love to move in with you and your husband.”

It won't be weird. I'll just be a roommate. But just go on to the addict and don't think it's all teen crackers. I'm sorry. Because you're making the baseball bat on your head.

Don't steal the crackers. Don't steal the crackers. And I'm sorry. I steal your husband's all teens. But I get hungry up there, but I want to listen to two of you.

Thank you so much for coming. Thank you. Thank you. Amen. Thank you so much, Viola.

You're incredible. And so good at what you do. And it was so wonderful to talk to you.

“Thank you for stopping by for this polar plunge.”

One person, we didn't get a chance to talk to Viola about that. I know she highly reveres and was deeply influenced by was the actress Sicily Tyson. And so I just wanted to say her name here. Because I know Viola has spoken about her and got to work with her on many projects. Including in how to get away with murder.

But do yourself a favor. And if you haven't seen Sicily Tyson's work,

it spans an incredible amount of time in American history.

She lived to 96. And many of us got to know her when she played. Conticante's mother in roots. But Sicily, at that point, had been working on the stage for a very long time. And she's just been in an incredible wide variety of television and movies.

And is a really terrific actress. And it was one of our Hollywood legends. So check her stuff out. I guess plunge into Sicily Tyson and her work. And Viola Davis, we love you.

We can't wait to see what you're doing next. So thanks so much for joining us. And see you soon. Bye. You've been listening to Good Hang. The executive producers for this show are Bill Simmons,

Jenna Weiss-Berman and me, Amy Poler. The show is produced by The Wringer and Paper Cite. For The Wringer, production by Jack Wilson, Kat Spalaine, Kaia McMillan, NLA as a nearest. For Paper Cite, production by Sam Greene, Joel Lovel and Jenna Weiss-Berman.

Original music by Amy Miles.