Episode 543: Dave Watumull: The One Algae Your Supplement Stack Has Always Been Missing

Pressure it.

“Hi, everybody. Welcome to Habits and Hustle. We have a very special guest today.”

We have Dave Wademall, who is the co-founder and CEO of AX3 Life. Now, you might be wondering

what that is and what that is is it's a astasanthent company. So, Dave is on a mission to bring astasanthent to the world. It's a marine super nutrient that supports your whole body's health and longevity. It has captured his imagination for more than 25 years of research, development, and commercialization. He is the co-founder and CEO of AX3 Life, a consumer health company dedicated to astasanthent products, education, and community. Now,

just for you, your information, I just said that. We typically don't even do, I don't usually read a bio, but I wanted to kind of get it out because I needed to practice the word astasanthent. And I find that this is why I wanted to do this podcast is because I was saying to off-camera that is one of these things that are so unknown, but yet probably one of the most

effective, most powerful anti-oxidant there is. And so, when there's something that hasn't been

totally just spoken about at Nazium, I really want to deep dive because that to me is when it's really the most interesting. It's kind of like we all hear vitamin C, we all hear even like Resveratrol, right? But not very many people, like even me, I was saying to you guys, I didn't even know what this was until like maybe two years ago, or maybe a year and a half ago, Max Lugabier was here, and he was talking about it to me. And I was like, wow, that's something

I did my own little deep dive, and then I started taking it, and now like I told you, I noticed it much more because I'm aware of it. So with that little extra intro, tell me like what made you like who you are, and why you started a company just on this particular thing, and kind of like give us a little bit of your origin story. Yeah, so I've been working with Azazanthin for virtually my whole life since high school. Initially as a summer job, I went to the

big island of Hawaii, went to Kona, and there was a company there that had a group of scientists from the Scroops Institute of Oceanography in San Diego, and they had a cool technology to grow a particular type of micro-algae that happens to produce Azazanthin as a defense mechanism against UV light from the sun. And so when you're growing this algae, it starts off life green in these big ponds, and then when the sunlight hits it in the brutal heat in Kona, where the Iron Man training

lava fields, they actually internally produce Azazanthin and turn bright red, and that is their defense mechanism, and it helps to absorb some that lights and protect them from oxidative stress and damage. And so this was going back to my high school years working in the production of ponds, and then thereafter pursuing various pharmaceutical and nutraceutical applications of Azazanthin just given that at the time there was a very limited research. There was less than 200 peer-reviewed

papers, no human clinical studies. And now over the last 25 years there's now more than 4,000 peer-reviewed papers, and like 100 human clinical studies conducted by not just us, but researchers internationally just because it's such a molecule of interest throughout the world in the research community, although not really known in the consumer and in the community. That was what I find very interesting, like why is it that most people sort of like give us a lot of other examples of other antioxidants.

There's like or work, like we've all sort of vitamin C, vitamin E, all these other beta-carotene. They are beta-carotene, but why has this particular thing, like I can say it again,

“Azazanthin? Azazanthin, thank you. Why is it so unknown?”

Yeah, it just hasn't. Well, first of all, it wasn't easy to make for a long time. It took some

technology on the microagal side to produce the algae to extract it, and then also if you want to do a laboratory method to make it highly pure and consistent by available, that also is not something easy to do. So both of those were kind of barriers to entry just as a product to be available to consumers. I was part of the team that brought one of the first Azazanthin supplements to the market back in the 99-2000 timeframe. There's been products on the market for now more than 25

years, but they've just been sold through traditional channels and supplement brands and stores, but there hasn't been a major push in terms of there was no celebrity backing or partnership or major consumer health company that was marketing it or major like TV campaigns or social media campaigns, and so it's kind of just gone under the radar, just hasn't had its time in the spotlight yet, but the science has just been continuing to grow over all the years,

“and the more you dig, the more interesting it is. And so that's what really our mission now is to”

spread the word about Azazanthin, because we spent the better part of a decade after that initial

prescribe this for disease use for patients, and then ultimately came back to the supplement space

with the learnings from the pharmaceutical research and manufacturing to bring a supplement that has that type of rigor around the manufacturing and kind of the knowledge behind how it works and the potential applications and bringing that to the consumer space. But for several years, we just worked on reaching out to doctors, locally in Hawaii, selling in retail stores, but then when the pandemic we figured we got to have a better way to reach people beyond just

“person to person with a doctor or with a, you know, at a store, and that's why we formed eggs”

three in the last few years was really to create, you know, a community and kind of a digital outreach through podcasts and social media to kind of reach more people and educate them about Azazanthin. Tell people what oxidative stress is, because people use that term, and a lot of times people don't even know what it means. So let's talk to me like I'm like seven. Okay, so so we breathe the oxygen, we consume nutrients and we produce energy in ourselves, just to power everything, to move

our muscles, to think, and oxygen is a big part of that process. As a bi-product of that energy production, some of the oxygen gets turned into reactive oxygen species free radicals that when you have too much of those, it becomes oxidative stress. Your body has endogenous antioxidant systems, like glutathione, SOD, superoxide disc mutates that takes care of some of that free radical or reactive oxygen species, the oxidative stress, but it oftentimes gets

“overwhelmed, and then you get oxidative stress, which is where you have more of these reactive”

oxygen species or free radicals than should be around. And then they are bad actors, you know, so you're producing energy and you might a country or the little power plants of yourself, as a bi-product of that, think of like an energy production facility. There's pollution coming out of it. That pollution or bi-product can damage things, and it can damage yourselves, which can lead to health issues, aging, et cetera. And so that's oxidative stress. And at the

same time, your immune system, when it's fighting off infections or, you know, wound healing, it can actually come in and create its own reactive oxygen species, which can be healthy for trying to kill like, you know, a virus or a pathogen, it does that internally, but it's been

as meant to kind of turn off and go away. The problem is when you have this happening on a

constant basis, and you have too much of these free radicals attacking portions of yourself, and then damaging whether it's your membranes, your proteins, which carry out all the activity in yourselves, or your DNA, you know, that can become damaged from oxidative stress. So that's really something that over time can lead to all these health issues and aging. So we want to try to reduce oxidative stress, which is also tiding with inflammation. There are inflammatory pathways

that are triggered by oxidative stress in the cell. So when, when they sense that there's oxidative stress, there's a change in that redox environment in the cell. It turns on these inflammatory pathways, and then now you recruit the troops, you recruit the fire department, you know, to the cell, and they're trying to fix things, but sometimes there's nothing to be fixed, and now it's actually causing damage because you're immune system rather than fighting off, you know,

a parasite toward an infection, a bacteria, or healing a wounds from an injury. Now it's just attacking your own tissues, and you don't need that. And so it's really important to reduce oxidative stress and chronic inflammation for overall health and longevity. You said something, though, you mentioned

glutathione, because glutathione, I was under, I thought that was the most powerful antioxidant

antioxidant that there is that your body has, and then like the precursors NAC, correct? So I've

“been taking that forever for years. You know, that's, I think a lot of people what they do is”

they think that they are deficient in something to the name of taking it for years on end without checking their blood work regularly. And so they don't even know how it changes over time, right? Can you tell us what are the main benefits of AstraZanthin and then let's get into more stuff off after that? So like you said, it's an antioxidant, but it's different not all antioxidants are the same. Okay. There's how potent they are and what types of reactive

oxygen species or free radicals that they're best at targeting. Okay. With AstraZanthin, it's uniquely structure to be able to quench single oxygen, which is a particular type of oxygen that's, you know, has kind of has extra energy, say, from UV light that hits it. And that energy can be damaging to other components in yourselves, like your lipids and your proteins and DNA. With AstraZanthin, it can interface with that and actually absorb the energy and the molecule can vibrate and kind

of dissipate the heat from that energy and then be back to normal and with no damage to the cell. And in that particular mechanism of targeting single oxygen, which is a reactive oxygen species, it's like thousands of times stronger than vitamin C and is similar to compare to vitamin E and

the common antioxidants. In addition to that, there's other types of free radicals, which are

“reactive oxygen species that may be missing in electron and oxygen loves electrons. And”

in particular, when they're free radicals, it's trying to steal an electron from the lipids or the proteins or the DNA, the components of yourselves that that build yourselves and your tissues and the body that you are. And so, acetate can actually donate an electron to those free radicals to neutralize them effectively. And then acetate itself doesn't become reactive because of its molecular structure where it can distribute that loss of the electron. And actually

it partners well with vitamin C to kind of get an electron back and then get back to normal. And we've done studies with a collaborator at Harvard that has a model that models a membrane inserts things like acetate or beta-carotene and sees if the membrane is disrupted and/or oxidized. And we found that with acetate and the membrane was completely undisturbed. It was just like perfectly situated in there. The membrane was super happy. And there was

no oxidation of the membrane. Whereas with other things, it disrupted the membrane. And so the membrane wasn't happy. It's kind of like messing up the walls of your house and now you have structural issues. Wow. And so yeah, other antioxidants like beta-carotene or vitamin E can even become pro-oxidin at certain levels. If they are fighting off free radicals sometimes they can become reactive and damage things on their own. But acetate

is like a pure antioxidant that doesn't ever become pro-oxidant. It always remains an anti-oxidant,

which is very unique. So it's much more potent than most anti-inflammatories. It spans the membrane in a very unique way that other antioxidants don't. It gets to all the membranes of the cell, not just the outer membrane, but the mitochondria and nucleus. And it gets naturally distributed throughout your whole body. And so when you take it orally, it gets transported to your liver along with other fats that you're ingesting in that meal. And then it gets packaged

into you if you've heard of like LDL and HDL, those lipoproteins. It gets packaged into those and prevents them from being oxidized while using them as a transport like a bus throughout the body to go to the

“heart and to the brain. So that's what they use, that's what acetate uses to travel throughout the”

body. Then it gets to your heart, it gets to your brain, it gets to your other tissues and organs.

And then it gets into all the cells and the membranes within those cells. So it's basically

distribute without your entire body, it gets into all your membranes and just kind of sits there and fights off free radicals that are kind of being generated and not being properly managed by your endogenous systems. But it's not chronically inhibiting or activating certain things like a lot of agents or drugs go in and just, oh, something's a little bit off. Let me just go in and completely take it out or completely turn something, which is not meant to be how your body functions.

It may fix that limited issue, but then now you have side effects down the road because that's not how nature intended your cells to function. Assistent and basically is helping to just maintain or restore that normal function on the cells. Just let's prevent the lipids and the

“proteins and the DNA, which are all the key components that are basically what make yourselves”

the cells and your tissues, just preventing them from being oxidized and damaged by inflammation, and just so they can just do their normal job and function normally. That's really what it does is just allow for homeostasis and normal cellular function. But in terms of say and are that was tested in this longevity study that we were also a part of with the NIH called the interventions testing program, which is probably the most rigorous mammalian assessment of lifespan in the

world. So it's the interventions testing program, the ITP, and it's conducted at the National Institute on Aging, which is part of the National Institutes of Health, the NIH. And so that's the U.S. government, Institutes of Science and Medicine, and it funds a lot of biomedical research and conduct research as well. And so this program has been running for the last 20 years. It's conducted at three different institutions. So it's very robust because you're not just

doing a study in one place. You're doing it at the University of Michigan University of Texas and a research group in Maine. And you have the same setup at each site. So you're running

basically three studies, but in parallel, and hoping to get the same type of result at all three,

and they've perfected this model over decades. And they have ideally you would test in humans, but it would take decades to actually look at lifespan. So mice are the best that we can get in terms of something that takes a few years to get an indication of, okay, this might be a viable longevity lifespan enhancing agent. And that's really the program that put rap and mice in on the map. As, oh, this actually, this old repurposed drug that used to be used for organ transplants,

and now actually can excite in your lifespan, it may give you kind of tolerability issues or side-effect issues that are not optimal from a day-to-day dosage standpoint, but it looks like it would extend your lifespan numerically, although who knows about quality of life at that point.

and was a legitimate lifespan enhancing agent. And other things like an R have also been tested in that model and did not extend lifespan. And not to say that an R doesn't have utility or an AD doesn't have benefit for health and for aging, but in terms of direct lifespan enhancement in this model, which was meant to replicate aging to the best extent possible in these mice. A lot of things green tea, Resvera Trial, was tested, did not extend lifespan.

So in the 20-year history, only 10 things have extended lifespan at all with statistical significance, and only five have actually extended lifespan more than 10%. And those five that have worked are things like rap and mice and other drugs. And we were invited to supply material to the program back in 2019, based on preliminary research where asses anthem was demonstrated to extend lifespan in other model organisms, like worms and fruit flies and yeast, which are

basic research models to look at things like aging or disease. So we extended lifespan in those models. We also showed that at the cellular level, the pathways that rap and mice and acts on like M-Tor or the Sertuens that Resvera Trial acts on, or AMPK that metformin acts on all of these

critical pathways, asses anthem also as an impact on them. So mechanistically, it makes sense that

asses anthem would support aging and longevity. And so we supplied this material to the NIH program. And after several years of following the mice, it turns out that asses anthem did extend lifespan by 12%. And so that's up there in the range of some of their top performers,

“but with the key difference that it actually has exceptional safety and tolerability, or like”

in the case of Resvera Trial, there was research, you know, in, at this point, probably 20 plus years ago that, you know, came out of, like David Sinclair's laboratory and and people were really excited about it. They formed, you know, the company's Sertuens to create pharmaceutical versions of Resvera Trial. It was purchased by GSK for hundreds of millions of dollars.

$100 million. Yeah. And then after a few years of research, it was shelved because it didn't

seem to really, you know, have the science involved. It was fun. It was like there was no proof of anything. Yeah. I think the mechanism with the Sertuens, I mean, there, there is something there, but maybe Resvera Trial wasn't exactly, you know, the optimal candidate for that. And so... Was it what happens? Is he, if they could visit, did they, what happens to that $600 million purchase, do they have to give the money back? Or... Oh, no, no, I mean, it's just so, yeah.

“Yeah, it is. That way. Exactly. That's the right option. But I mean, that's how drug development”

works. I mean, companies will spend hundreds of millions or billions trying to develop

things and not everything works. So NR never extended lifespan. Yeah. And then never extended.

And then it wasn't tested in that model. It wasn't tested. Yeah. Yeah. And so we don't know about that. But NR at least didn't Resvera Trial didn't green tea didn't make it three as didn't. Yeah, those green tea didn't either. No. For polyphenols. Yeah. But again, all those may have other good health benefits, but maybe just wouldn't numerically send your lifespan in a typical population based on this study.

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“endurance, recovery, and your overall longevity. And that's why I've partnered with AX3 life.”

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So I'm curious, if this is something that it's such a powerful anti-oxidant, more 1,000 times more powerful than vitamin C. And I initially heard what it's really great for your skin, nails, hair, there's a big beauty element to this. Why are there not any serums just like an as, how do you say it again? Astasampton. Astasampton serums. And freeing. I mean, this is a massive market in the beauty world. It's a trillion dollar market. There's a bazillion vitamin C serum.

Meanwhile, it's come back that there's no real data that's even supports that risk-eratural

is even effective. And yet, it's a multi-billion dollar, it was a multi-billion dollar company brand.

So why are more people not creating beauty products with this? There are a few, in particular, in the Asian market. Is there a Korean, like the Korean Japanese Korean? Yeah, so there are products that utilize astasampton. You'll find some cosmetics. And so I think it will become more common, just as more cosmetic brands are aware of the science and wanting to include it, because there are studies showing that both oral and topical administration of astasampton

do reduce fine lines at wrinkles and increase moisture content and elasticity prevents some of the DNA damage to skin cells that happens from UV light. Also promotes eye health, both based on strain from looking at digital screens, but also based on the light that comes in from the sun.

“And so it really is important. And I think that the one challenge though is that it's such a”

bright red pigment. As you can imagine, if you mix it into lotion, which we've done kind of on our own kind of crude formulations of topical, you know, lotion and creams, it's bright red. And so you, if you have a high dose in it, it's like putting on more paint, like a red that's crazy. Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. So you may have to have a low level to not have it be something that like colors the skin with, you know, with the application of the topical

cream or lotion, but still is enough to be effective. Fortunately though, astasampton without needing to apply it topically, it naturally gets distributed throughout your whole body and even and gets to your skin cells. So it can, it can be that internal, you know, protector of the skin, just by taking it orally. I think it's a beauty. I think it's like the best cap secret that nobody talks about is that if you take this astasampton as a, as a capsule, it will be a great thing

for your skin, your nails, your hair, everything grows faster, looks better, and like nobody's doing it. Nobody's talking about it. And like it's, it's like the cheapest, the cheapest beauty

“hat you can do. Yeah, a lot of cosmetic products are quite expensive, right?”

Very expensive. And like, well, that's a big deal, because I think that the truth, the matter is everything now is about longevity. That's like the new buzzword of the day, right? Everyone longevity, longevity, longevity. And so the assumption is to live longer. So everyone's doing all these things, taking these injections, these peptides, all the things, because they're expecting to live longer and live better. Yeah, because you want to not just live longer, but have health

and health health as well. Yeah. So if like a lot, and like if most of the stuff actually almost

all of it is a bunch of nonsense, you know, it's like that's the bottom line. It is mostly

nonsense. I know it's nonsense because this is the thing, right? Like there's always certain things like there's always so much you can do to really move the needle. You can only like, you know, you can exercise, you can eat well, you can not smoke, drink glass, all the things, right? But then there's other things that move the needle. Like a little, a little bit. And those things I like, from all my readings, all the experts at the, I talked to the top people in the world,

and they, they say to me, like, off, you know, offline, like, yeah, that most, like, most of the stuff is not going to really like help you. The sauna can be a great thing. Cold plunge, man, some people are saying, yes, and people are saying no. That's mixed, yeah. There's only a few things

“that everyone's in agreement with, right? Like, so that's why this was very interesting to me,”

because like, it's usually the ones that are the most unknown, undetected, like, less popular, that actually, like, actually work. Like, no, exercise is very unpopular, but it works better than anything else. You know, it means, like, unfortunately, that's the way it works. Like, this thing here, it's a very, it's actually a very moderately, it's a very inexpensive supplement at Asa's Anthony. Like, how much is a bottle of this stuff? So, ours is 50. You can find cheaper ones on Amazon

for 25, but they are ours is absorbed three times better. And that's for no. Yeah, you're paying half, but you're, you're taking three times as much, you know, in that case. So, well, that's good to know, because you know why when I went on Amazon, before I even met you and knew about your products and all the stuff and how, how rigorous you are with your testing and all the things, that's very important. You know, the, you're going to be so careful with Amazon, because I went

on Amazon two years ago, after Max told me all about all this stuff, and I'm like, "Hmm, my mom and I'm going to find Asa's Anthony." And this thing had, like, this brand had, like, 20,000 reviews. And I'm like, "Oh, it must be good." Right? So, I bought it. Meanwhile, it's garbage, and I didn't know, you know, because you're going to be careful. What are people supposed to look for? How do they know what works? What doesn't work? Like, what's the most potent version of Asa's

Anthony, how much they should take, and in terms of, like, just like, quality, basically.

garbage, you know, they, they might be awesome. And it probably used, like, such a little amount,

“there's like 1% Asa's Anthony and the rest filler. Yeah. So, there are those products. And”

and you want to make sure you get, if you are getting one from Amazon, one from a reputable company that is either a direct manufacturer. Or, yeah, tell us why yours is, like, how, why yours is actually special. So, having started in growing the micro-algae, we noticed that that is prone to

batch the batch variability, prone to contamination, because you basically are growing algae in these

big ponds. And you have the volcano nearby. You have the airport nearby. So, airplane jet fuel vapor. You're doing it? Why? We used to. It was a 25 plus years ago, we were growing the micro-algae in the open ponds in Kona. And, but you are exposed to the elements. And so, yes, you have the Hawaiian sunlight and air, but you also have Vogue from the volcano and the airport next to nearby in birds and and rodents. And so, it's outdoors. Yeah. It's not as controlled. There are some

groups like a group in Iceland and a group in Washington State that do it entirely enclosed indoor

“tubes. So, it's not prone to the contamination risks, but it's still an extract of the algae,”

which is only five or 10, or maybe even 15 or 20%. If you're really doing a, like, a high concentrated

form. But most products in the market maybe, like, say, five or 10% Asa's Anthony, the rest is

other stuff from the algae, which is related molecules or algal lipids or proteins that are, that are not going to harm you, but they're just not the active component that you want. And, in our case, we, with a decade of pharmaceutical research, we decided to kind of produce it like a pharmaceutical in terms of in the laboratory, like highly pure none of the other stuff, but just the active molecule that you find in nature with none of the other stuff.

So, it's a 100% pure. It's a 100% pure, but then we have to formulate it to make it absorbed. Because if it's, if we just take it off the end of the line, not formulated, you won't absorb it, unfortunately. And so, we have to formulate it to make it so well absorbed. But when we took our 12 milligram capsule, or two of those, 24 milligrams total, versus potentially, like the product you bought, which was like, yeah, very highly reviewed on Amazon

long-term, you know, brand on the market, same 12 milligram, two capsules of theirs. We got a group of human volunteers, healthy individuals, gave them the dose of the two 12 milligram capsules of the algal form of the product. It took their blood at multiple time points. So, over 24 hours, sent the blood to the lab where we have methods to measure how much assistant is in the blood. Then we sent them home for a week to let the assistant

and wash out their system. And at that point, bring them back, you don't measure any assistant in their system anymore. So, it's out of them completely. Then give them the same dose of ours, two 12 milligram capsules, take their blood, measure it. And we got three times the amount of assistant, then at the highest concentration, but also the total exposure over 24 hours. If you add up all the concentrations at each time point, we had three times as much absorbed. So, in the

other case, you were passing some of it through into the toilet. You weren't actually absorbing it into your body. And so, we have a much more effective formulation. And this was in the same group of people. So, it's not just like, oh, right, it had been different group of people that absorbed it differently. It's literally the same people. One week apart, just and same dosage. And also, the variability between each person was less in ours. And so, you had a more consistent

absorption. So, in addition to three times as much. And our product is much more pure and consistent because we do it in the laboratory. And so, it's highly controlled in like pharmaceutical style

manufacturer. So, it's basically a pharmaceutical grade product. That would be, yeah,

how you would describe it. It's still natural. It's called like natural product, total synthesis. So, you're basically taking a natural product, making an laboratory with the exact molecular structure that you would find in nature. So, okay. So, then, because the color of salmon, it's because we're salmon is pink because of Asa's anthem. So, what happens if we just can't we just eat more salmon? You could, but you'd have to eat about a pound of Sakai salmon to get

12 milligrams. Or like four pounds of Atlantic salmon to get the same. So, I mean, you can, that's a lot, right? And that's where it comes from? Yeah, for one capsule. Really? And a lot people take, you know, two capsules a day or four or even eight or more. And so, in that case, it would be just like not possible. Like 27 salmon's. Yeah, yeah. So, it's just, it's not really

“possible to eat that much salmon reliably. I mean, I think adding more salmon to your diet is”

great because you have omega-3s, you have Asa's anthem, you know, but it's, yeah, all right, it's that one. It'd be hard to eat that more salmon. Yeah. So, for, for best use, I've been taking one capsule. Mm-hmm. Should I be taking more, two, three? Yeah, the most studies show increasing like those dependent effects. And say, in that human study, we did for cardiovascular health, we found

longevity support, one or two, should be fine. But given that, it's exceptionally safe. We,

we and others have done safety studies showing that that high doses long durations, there aren't side effects of any thing of clinical significance. And so, you have room to kind of find a dose that works best for you. And so, you may want to measure biomarkers like measures of oxidative stress or inflammation in your blood tests. And if something is elevated, maybe you can see if that could come down. And you could adjust your dose based on that. Or you could do based on how you feel like

you're joined. So, your muscles or your cognition, like, you know, brain fog, you can kind of

subjectively see how you're feeling. And then adjust your dose accordingly. And have you been

“taking this for, like, how, like, twenty, like, how long have you been taking it? Twenty five years?”

Like, do you cycle on and off? Do you? No, I've been taking it just for, yeah, most of my adult life. Yeah, yeah, my father also has been taking it for decades. And, and he is a power user because so, he's in his mid to late seventies. And he plays hardcore singles tennis in the Hawaiian sun multiple times a week. And so, he and his buddies that are in that age. They all take, they take 12 or 16 capsules a day. And they found, you know, they really benefits their mobility. So,

they are kind of on the, the frontiers of the, you know, the high dosing and have found benefits there. So, that's not our recommended dose, but just to know that people have experimented with higher doses and and found utility. So, but I think for a general health and longevity, one or two a day is, is probably sufficient. What does Azazanth and not do? Yeah, okay. Well, it won't make you live forever. And that's one thing. Like, people, like, are trying to do hacks

“and make you live to one figure 200. I think this is something that allows your body to just”

hopefully function optimally and normally and live kind of a natural, you know, but hopefully, as long of a natural life as you can with as much health as you can. Right. Right. That's some thing that's going to change by our league. Yeah, to somehow reverse aging, you know, or something like that. I mean, a lot of people are working on those things, but I think the problem is, you know, a lot of people just, you know, assume that aging is happening and it's just the

way it is, but I think there's a lot of things you can do. And the other thing is, of course, it's not to replace the basics, which are not, you know, sexy, but like a good night of sleep, you know, a good diet exercise, mindfulness, social connections, you know, all these things really play a vital role in your health and a lot of people would rather hack their way around them with other things, other than just fixing their lifestyle. And so if you can do that, plus supplement

intelligently with science back products like Ashes Anthem, that probably is going to give you the best chance to live a longer healthier life. I think you just said it perfectly there. I think that that's 100% true. People are looking for a quick fix and looking for something that's sexy and like trendy and the things that, the things that work the best through time are the things that have no sex appeal, boring is hell, but they work, right? Like exercising, sleeping,

you know, probably like all the things I said earlier, supplementing properly, right? That's

“a big one. Yeah, doesn't sound so hot, but actually if you want to be hot, those are the things”

you kind of have to do. Exactly. You know, it's unfortunately, it's the truth. David, thank you for being on habits and hustle. Thank you for coming and talking to me. Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. No, this was a pleasure. Where do people find more information on you or more on your product, which is if you guys are going to go and try Ashes Anthem, make sure you're trying David's product because it really, it's definitely, it's definitely a quality product.

Oh, thank you. Yeah. So AX3.life is our website and also our panel on Instagram. I'm also on Instagram @DaveWautimal. So any of those sources are a good place to learn more.

Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.