Episode 549: Dr. Valter Longo: What 30 Years of Longevity & Fasting Study Reveals About The GLP-1 Trend

Pressure it!

Welcome to Habits and Hustle with me, Jen Cohen, where we break down the mind sets and

strategies behind extraordinary lives. Today, I'm joined by Walter Longo, one of the world's leading voices in longevity science. He's a biochemist, director of the USC longevity Institute and the creator of the Fasting Mimicking Diet, backed by over 40 clinical trials. For more than 30 years, he's studied what actually helps people live longer and healthier,

not trends, not hype, but what the science consistently proves. And what he's found challenges a lot of what you're hearing right now, from intermittent fasting, the high protein diets, to GLP1 drugs. In this episode, we break down what really works, what doesn't, and the simple science backed approach, your body is designed to respond to.

He also shares how he lives himself, no sharp cuts, and no extremes.

This one will change how you think about aging and your body's ability to heal, so let's

get into it. We today have a very special guest on Habits and Hustle. We have some of that I've been wanting to have on the podcast for probably like three or so years. I've heard exceptional things about him, and I'm sure you guys have already heard of him.

His name is Dr. Walter Longo. He is a doctor, and he's going to actually, you know, before I'm not even going to tell you, he's going to tell you himself, Dr. Longo, wouldn't, what kind of doctor would you say, you are? You obviously do a lot of longevity, cancer research.

Right. So I have a PhD in biochemistry from UCLA next door here, and I'm an undergraduate degree in biochemistry, and I was called post-doc in neurobiology, so it's a training that you do after the PhD in neurobiology, but I've actually been training a lot of different disciplines from endocrinology to oncology, to gastroenterology, or at least the clinical research

part of that. I'm not a medical doctor, I'm a practice medicine, but I certainly do a lot of clinical trials, human clinical trials, and all these topics. Well, I got familiar with you a little bit before, but you wrote the book, "Fasting Cancer". That's my latest book. That's your latest book?

My first book was "The Longer of the Diet", which was like five years ago.

“Like seven or eight years ago, but when did you write "Fasting Cancer"?”

No, "Fasting Cancer" is like about very recently, like six months ago. So I was familiar with you, of course, before that, but that was the book that really kind of struck my whole idea of cancer to me as the scariest thing in the world, right? The most people. The most people.

It's like the biggest fear of everybody, and so that, when I saw the title, I was like, "Oh my God, I need to delve into all of the stuff that all the research", because you've been doing so much research on longevity and obviously aging and fasting, I mean, the new tell people, just let's start with the thing that you're most known for, right? Which is the fast-min-making diet, longevity diet.

What is kind of your whole hypothesis that we should be fasting? It's what should we be doing in terms of, like, how do we live the longest and healthiest? Right. That's really my focus in the focus of the Institute that I started at USC is how do we make people live as long as possible as healthiest possible, right?

Right.

“That's what we've been working on for 30 years, and even before then, when I was a UCLA,”

I was a student, Roy Waldford, and Roy at the time was the most famous person in the world. He was a medical doctor at UCLA, and he was focused on how do you make people live longer, healthier. And yeah, so I think that after all these years, when we came up with something called longevity diet, and then I came up with something called the Fast-min-making diet, so these

were also, we were also thinking about things that are feasible, right? The people can actually do and not just something that's very beneficial, for example, we can go into it if you want GLP-1, right? Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

Most people abandon them, you know, within a couple of years, and you, for those to be effective, you need to do it permanently, right, or certainly very, very long term. So to us, that's not feasible, right? That's not a good idea.

“It may work, you may get very good effects short term, but then what did they achieve?”

Maybe I achieved that I gave you side effects, and then now you regain all the weight, and you're even unhealthier than when you started. But so the longevity diet is, what do you do every day? And the Fast-min-making diet instead is, what can you do once on a wall, right?

fasting, right?

So the idea was first developed in simple organisms, then in mice, and then in people,

can you eat, but get the same response as molecularly as if you were water-only fasting?

“And that's what a Fast-min-making diet is.”

So it's a low calorie, low protein, low sugar, high fat, plant-based diet. That does all these things, death, whatever only Fast-in-Dass, but as advantages, because of course, as salts, as carbon sources, meaning it has energy back-ups, right? So glycerin, I saw it has glycerin, or glycerol, yeah, and the glycerol, the job glycerol is, for example, people going back to GLP1, right?

So GLP1, receptor agonist, most of these drugs, you lose two to the one or three to one part of fat for limb mass, right? Yeah.

So you're losing a lot of muscle, essentially, while you're doing this.

And so, with the Fast-min-making diet, we don't see that, right? And one of the reasons is because it's an involved process that has the job of just making lose the fat. You know, you don't want to lose it. If you think about history, and you're fasting, you don't want that organism to be losing

muscle, right? Right. You want to have it, so the muscle is protected, and one of the ways the muscle is protected is glycerol, right? So the fat is broken down, and glyceronac can be used to make sugar for the brain, and instead

of taking muscle to make sugar, what's called gluconeogenesis, so now the glycerol is used to feed the brain instead of the muscle being used to feed the brain, or suddenly amino acids

“released from the muscle used to feed the brain, right?”

So this is just one of the many tricks that we have in the Fast-min-making diet to make sure that we get lots of benefits and no side effects, or very little side effects. So let me start from the beginning, okay?

So the long, so you first write this book in 2017, '18, 'The Long-Jabity Diet'.

Now, is the long-jabity diet, is the diet the fast-min-making diet, or are they well in the same? No, the long-jabity diet is everything, including the fast-min-making diet, right? So the long-jabity diet is, for example, a pesqueterian diet, a fish plus vegan or fish plus vegetarian, actually, probably, and those seem to optimize longevity, but also minimize

frailty, right? So people can live long, by can live long frailty. For example, the southern Italians are famous for many, having a lot of sense, centenarians, but the southern Italians are also some of the most frailty people in Europe, right? So you don't want to live a hundred to a hundred and be sick for 30, 40 years, or even be frailty.

I mean, you cannot go up the stairs, or you cannot go for a walk, or you cannot do lots of things that you want to do.

“Yeah, so that's what the longevity everyday diet is.”

And then it has all the components, for example, 12 hours of eating and 12 hours of fasting per day, right? So we're staying away from the 16-hour, 18-hour fasting for lots of reason, which we can discuss, but we picked the 12 hours because of safety, feasibility, people can do it, but also because of, you know, it just takes longer for it to be effective, but in the end it can be very

effective without the problems that the 16 hours causes it. What's funny because actually not funny, I mean, fasting for a long time was very trendy, a very trendy, like the intermittent fasting, the water fasting, and I feel lately and hasn't been as, like, it hasn't been as popular, right? Because people are coming back and saying it's not something that people like to do, whatever.

And I was noticing that the people that were super into fasting, they were like shortening their windows from like a four-hour window, like it went from like the 16-hour window to the eight, like to the, there's other people are, they're only eating within a four-hour window. So within a two hour.

I suppose it's a summer, even in a two-hour window, or not eating at all for five days with the water fast, why did, when did you realize, and what are the benefits, or why now have you noticed that doing 12 hours is just even better than doing a 16, or these long stretches of diet? I mean, the longevity diet is based on five pillars, right? But meaning that it's not just

a lot of diets are based on epidemiological data, right? You look at this study, so it's this, which is that, and how do they compare? The longevity diet is based also on centenaries. What did the centenaries, as a lot of the world? Okinawa, Lomalinda, California, and Sardini,

longer, are you making monkey level longer? And so those are all important, in addition to

“the epidemiological data, to come up with something that it's less likely to be affected”

by the new study, right? Somebody's, every day, something new comes up, and if you do

that, you're going to go crazy, because then, if you look at any study, they're always

going to prove everything and everything against it, right? Yeah. And the opposite. So, from the very beginning, we say 12 hours, I say 12 hours, because, for example, I was noticing there was all data, but very good data, they were saying, if you skip breakfast, you live shorter, with twice, or much higher levels of cardiovascular disease, right? And so, I say, you know, then I started thinking, this is really strange, is it just by about the breakfast

or is it about the 16, 18 hours of fasting, right? And then, you know, there were also data showing that, after 12 hours, your cholesterol, your circulating cholesterol, level go up, the LDL levels go up, and they keep going up, the longer you fast. And then, I was looking at data, and this is like 10 years ago, our goalstone and goalbladder operations, women, they were fasting for 14, 16 hours, they were twice as likely to need the people with

goalbladder disease, twice as likely to need an operation. So, yeah, so, all of that, from the very beginning, and then the feasibility, right? I was a student of Roy Wall for back in the '90s, and he was talking about something called calorie restriction, which is, what if you severely restrict your calorie, all every day of the year, and then I was noticing

that nobody was doing that, right? And so, I always thought, you know, it may be good

for the lab, but it's not good for people, right? People because, you know, to do calorie

“restriction, you have to be losing a lot of weight, I'm already pretty thin, imagine me”

minus 30 pounds, right? That's what calorie restriction looks like. Yeah, so, I thought, it cannot be something that pushes people all the time to the edge, and, you know, so, the 12 hours made sense scientifically, clinically, and also made sense feasibility was, it's just easier, and most people can do it, and I think I got it right, you know, and now we're starting to see the data indicating, and may not just be skipping breakfast, and maybe

any 16 hours, and there's a study published last year, indicating that any time you do 16 hours, you are putting yourself at twice as much twice as high or risk for cardiovascular disease, and also overall mortality, increase overall mortality. Really, what about, how about the fact that you just end up eating more? Because, for me, when I skip, let's say breakfast, let's just go with the breakfast thing. When I don't eat breakfast, I'll just end up eating

those calories anyway later on during the day, because I'm just, like, I'm making enough for it. Like, my body also has a, I don't, what do you believe in, like, baseline? Like, do you feel like everyone has a baseline weight that you can only modify so much where it gets to be uncomfortable, or do you think that we can all, or is it not about that at all? I mean, I know you take it from a health perspective, but for the weight piece of

it, because a lot of people are doing the fast for weight as well. Right, right. Yeah.

So first of all, the breakfast keepers, there was no other information. It was just, people

that keep breakfast. Yeah. They do worse. Right. Yeah. There's no reason. And for a long time, the ideas are all they do worse because they have bad behavior. Yeah. But it doesn't

“look like that, right? It doesn't look like that's what it is. Yeah. So I think that it”

probably is about fasting, right? For so long, right? It's just too long, and somehow the body is particularly, if it involves 16 hours and involves keeping breakfast, the body has negative responses, right? It turns into a modality. Maybe it's the cholesterol, made something else, but something is negative about it. Right. And then, you know, the, your second question about the weight, it's, yeah, the body likes to go back to a weight which

you were stable, right? So somebody's overweight 30 pounds. And you stay in the 30 pounds overweight long enough, the body likes that because it understands that that's a good situation, right? It might not be modern in modern time, a good situation, but it was for the history for 100,000 years. Right. You know, homo sapiens have been around. So, so it tries to keep you there, it tries to keep you there. But that's where the fasting me making that kicks

me, right? So, for example, in the documentary, the, you know, it's going to be shown very soon, and the premier is going to be shown in the documentary, we were showing that the body likes to go back to a certain weight where it's stable. And so, if you try to

overweight obese, I pertains for a long time. And so, we put them on the longevity diet,

and the everyday longevity diet. And the doctor after nine months doesn't change a lot. It loses a couple of maybe three or four pounds, but doesn't change a lot. Then we started fasting me making diet. So, again, he had been, it had about maybe 90 kilograms in a very steady way. And so, the longevity diet, this, like, maybe Mediterranean diet, but taking to even more extreme doesn't do anything, right? So, now, we put them at the fasting

me making that. So, in about six months, the following six months, eight months, it has three cycles of the fasting me making that. Then you see, is, is weight comes down, is glycemia comes down, is blood pressure comes down. Now, he gets rate of, he was an ozampic and all the drugs, he gets rate of drugs, and he gets rate of, not just the glycemia drug, the diabetes drug, he gets rate of the hypertension drugs, and his weight goes back to normal,

right? So, probably what happens is that we are locked, people are locked in the, you know, in the weight modality, in two, there is a very strong message switch, right? Get out of it, right? Get out of it because, you know, now, you, you kept the fat, and now, the three cycles of the fasting me making that come around, and it just pushes you to, to start burning fat versus accumulating fat, right? So, yeah. So, people are stuck, but they can get out of it.

The fasting me making that is certainly a good way to do it. So, the fast, so the fast been making that, you can actually trigger you to get out of that baseline diet that you

“have been stuck with. Yeah. The fasting me making that, you can do that. But now, I think”

it's important for people to understand that, if you go too long, right? If, if the restriction is too long, and these are studies that have been done for a long, long time, now you can get into something called the thrifty mode, right? In the thrifty mode, now it tries to save energy as much as possible, right? So, if you fast for too long, that doesn't happen. The body doesn't switch into a catabolic into burning fat. If you fast, if you fast for too short,

if you fast for too long, now the body starts to be worried about, I may have to save energy because I may die like this, right? So, if I don't start putting away, keep in the fat, then I'm going to be in trouble. And so now you enter the thrifty mode. In the thrifty mode, we're worried that maybe a pigenetic, and then maybe why so hard for people, once they

get into this fat saving mode, and maybe so hard for people to get out of it, because basically

“everything tells you, eat and go, maybe in a lower energy expenditure mode, and that's what”

it was shown. I mean, you are burning less calories, right? If you enter that, then you get a problem, you get the opposite problem. So, if you do too short, you don't enter the catabolic mode. If you do too long, you enter the energy saving mode. And this is why people underestimate the power of understanding the science, and understanding that you have to be, do it just right. So, then you unlock it, and you can keep going, and then you can go to a different way,

which could be 30 pounds lower than you. Right. It's a very delicate balance, it sounds like. Wait, it's a delicate balance because it's a program that is there to protect you from starving to that, but it's also, you know, there to protect you from a, maybe it's a good, it's good to keep saving fat, right? And in the majority of the history of human beings, and not just human beings, any organism, you know, starving, it was a real possibility, right?

Right. And so, you know, and there is no more natural selection pressure, then starving to that, meaning that evolution is very much aware of the danger that could kill you. And then, it wants to eliminate those as much as possible, and certainly starving to that, it's probably one of the common, most common ways that people that died in the last, you know, 100,000 years here. Wow. So, like, so can you just give us a very brief description? And when people who don't know

or not familiar with what the fast mimicking diet is, like, what is it, what does it contain? Like,

“like, if someone says, hey, Dr. Longo, what is this fast mimicking? What do you mean by this?”

Yeah. Yeah. So, the fast mimicking diet, the, when I first developed that,

like, 20 years ago, I started developing the idea was to first make it fastly mimicking, right? And so, and then you use a lot of, again, low protein, low sugar, relatively low carbannatulau. So, your body just interrupts you. So, people understand. So, when you say fast mimicking, it's basically your body thinks it's in fast mode, but you're, you're basically giving people little things to eat and drink, to supplement. So, they don't feel that like ravenous feeling

and deprivation of a normal fast without beacon. Yeah, the deprivation, but also, I think it's very

yes. People, I think there is a problem with, you know, you need to have a certain amount of food and calories, but also the routine of having breakfast or having lunch, right? Right, psychologically. Yes, psychologically, that's very important. And then, of course, lots of all the things that that need to be in there, like I mentioned, you know, the salts and all of that. Yeah. So, then,

the first thing we can do is, I mean, the molecularly, and without going to the details,

there is four markers, you know, IGF1, insulin-like growth factor 1, as to go down, glucose, as to go down. And then, something called IGFBP1, which is an inhibitor of the growth factor, as to go up, and then, ketom bodies, they have to go up, right? So, ketom bodies are these byproducts of fat, breakdown. And so, this is where ketogenesis, the work ketogenesis come from. Right. So, then, now that this diet that I just described, lots of vegetables, lots of nuts, lots of oils,

olive oil, they have the job of changing those markers. And of course, you know,

“the fascinating diet, theoretically, could be made with large, for example, right?”

You know, theoretically, even large, will make it a fast American diet, but it wouldn't make necessarily a healthy fast diet. Right, right, okay, yes. And then, then, the idea was, let's match the fast in me making properties with the very healthy ingredients of the, you know, of the longevity diet, let's say, right? So, what did the, can we take ingredients from what can I have from Lomalinda, from Italy, and then use those to make the fast in the FMD.

So, is there, like, so when you do a fat, like, you basically, was it a lot of trial and error to figure out the exact, like, you have, like, to kind of figure out what to do, like, the balance, like, 20 years ago, how are you kind of figuring this out? Like, what was your team doing? What are they trying different foods? Were they incorporating, were you trying it in rats? Like, how did you kind of figure out this ratio of salt or glycerol, or whatever you put in that

thing, like, to figure out that perfect balance of how your body doesn't feel deprived, or it's not burning lean muscle, because that was the other concern, right? Like, people don't

“want to burn lean muscle, so that's another thing. How did you kind of figure out the, the measurements?”

Like, how did you get the recipe, so to speak? Yeah, I mean, we are, we've always focused on the

genetics of longevity and the phenogenetics, also of weight loss and weight gain. So, we already started from understanding the connection between ingredients and the cast sequence of having that ingredient, right? So, then it was just a matter of testing it out. So, for example, you know, we knew that we had to have low protein in the diet, and now people shouldn't mix the longevity diet with the fasting making diet, you know, the longevity diet is normal protein, the fasting making

that is very low protein, right? But it's not just a protein, but the amino acid content. So, meaning that you could have a relatively low protein content, but if it comes from one source, especially animal source, the amino acid that we want to have very low, and usually what's called essential amino acids, the amino acids are high, are too high, right? So, it's not just protein level, but then protein type, and even between two vegetable sources, you can have a two-three-fold difference

“in the content of certain amino acids, right? So, then that's why, you know, you want to have,”

so we were more thinking about amino acid level, right? So, yeah, yeah, and then we're picking protein sources, just to give you an example with the amino acids, protein sources that will contain low levels, or higher levels of those amino acids, yeah. So, then everything in the FMD goes through that reasoning, you know, whether it's, you know, fat, and so you could have any fat, but then you have olive oil, and it's got monosaturated fats, and so each ingredient was

tested in mice, and then we were looking for the effects in mice, and then first we look at the

short-term effects, right, what happens in a couple weeks, but then eventually we start doing the lifelong study, right? And that's really, those are the very expensive ones, and they're the ones that you need to then have a chance to make somebody a little longer healthy, right? So, for example, a few years ago, first we did it in normal mice, and then we did it in mice that were fat, a very bad diet, right? So, we wanted to test both, right? And, you know, for example, the

mice that had a very bad diet, this was published a few years ago, we showed that, you know, they get very big, right? And they get very unhealthy, and this really remarkable, our unhealthy day become, because I thought, what's the Western diet going to do to a mouse, right? That maybe will make a little shorter, it almost cuts the lifespan in health, right? And it just completely messes up cholesterol level, chart, function, inflammation, you know, insulin resistance. So,

fasting making that, once a month for five days, and we thought, it's probably going to make

“him a little bit better, right? We thought, just mice on that normal diet, and mice on this really”

bad diet, and the mice on the bad diet for 25 days a month, and a good diet for five days a month, they're going to be in between. They were not, they were identical to the mice on the good diet. And so, there was very surprising to us, right? So, just five days a month of this FMD, I can be, you know, 25 days, it's five times as much bad diet and good diet, and yet the five days were enough to bring everything back cholesterol, heart function, glyceemia, insulin resistance,

name it. So now we just finished a 500 people trial in southern Italy, we overweight, you know,

these people, I cannot talk about the results, but then, but yeah, because it's not published yet.

But are they good? Well, we'll see, but the idea is, is it possible that, you know, it's not really about good food and bad food, is about the role of the bad food. So, we think of bad food, there's something there every day, there's a little bit of damage to you, but that's that is sure that it's not true, right? Because otherwise, you know, you got 25 days of damage every month. Right. So, then you don't come back from that with five days. And so, you know, either

there is a regenerative process that brings you back, or maybe the food is just pushing you into a modality, which then accelerates the aging process. So, it's not doing damage, but it's just pushing you, let's say, in the southern resistant modality, in an inflammatory modality,

“et cetera, et cetera, and that eventually, if you don't unlock it every month, right?”

Ah, then that makes you age faster. So, okay, so a couple, you've said a few things. So, one question I have is, how have you revamped the diet from 20 years ago to now? Like, what are some of the findings that you have kind of revised that you know now that you didn't know back then? Well, I mean, 20 years ago, it was the mouse version, right? So, right. And we use it for cancer. You know, now there's a lot of fascinating, that is one for Alzheimer,

that is very different from from the one for cancer. The people is very different from the one

in cancer, cancer is much lower calories. So, let's talk about that. I love to do you basically

took the diet and kind of tailored it to disease specific? So, there's a specific fast-bimicking diet for an Alzheimer's patient versus a cancer patient versus -- First is how to immune it these versus

“diabetes versus -- Wow, tell me about that. I'd like to know the difference. How much”

different can they all be? Well, I mean, for example, the cancer one is much lower calories. Because with cancer, we need to get quickly in and out, meaning that the cancer patient gets chemo and the chemo is gone within a few days. Let's say it gets chemo. It could be getting chemotherapy, kind of inhibitor, and lots of different therapies. So, we need to try to achieve these changes in HGF1, et cetera, that I talked about before quickly. And so, because, you know, we don't have the time

to get there more slowly. But for Alzheimer, for example, it's the opposite. We have high calorie. We add the next three or four hundred kilograms per day because now we're dealing -- we just finish a trial in Italy. We're dealing with people that may be as old as 85, 90. And we can give a six hundred kilograms, which is what -- So, for normal people, it's 800 to 1100 kilograms per day. For cancer, it's six hundred. And for Alzheimer, it's 1400, right? So, because we don't want

to push somebody's 85 to a very restricted diet. And, you know, there was probably a good idea because so far, we've had very little, you know, high grade toxicity, meaning like the type of toxicity that makes the doctor worry, right? So, it's minor things like a little bit of a headache and things like that. But it really don't see that we haven't seen very much of the grade three, grade four, toxicity, which makes clinicians worry. So, what you do in the Alzheimer's, fast-memicking diet,

like besides adding more calories, I just adding bigger portions. What are you adding any specific ingredients? And we're adding lots of -- I mean, in the Alzheimer's is not just calories, it's also other things. So, we had caffeine. And it's a ketogenic supplement that we actually give patients between the cycles, right? So, so they did the cycle. And then all the 25 days in between cycles, they got these 300, 400 calorie ketogenic supplements. So, high fat, very healthy, most of it

from nuts and olive oil. But there was also caffeine and some other things in there that have been

because there's really nothing out there that works, right? And so, we felt let's just go all the way,

which we usually don't do because then if you put all these things in there, you don't know what worked. But we thought, especially because we were talking to neurologists that remember six or seven years ago and they were telling us, you know, good luck, right? Because by the time somebody's got an early Alzheimer, I mean, their brain is so damaged that it's going to take a miracle for anything and to bring them back, right? That's when we started thinking, okay, let's just go with everything we

“can. And yeah, we'll see. But in my sports very well. But, but, you know, I think it's a lot of”

rougher. Because in mice, we start early, right? Right? Right? Yeah, if you start in 82 year old patient

that has already been diagnosed with Alzheimer. It's not helping. We don't have high hopes. Yeah,

it's you're a past the point. I'm also asking because my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's recently. Here I go. I'm looking, thank you. And I'm looking for anything and the truth of the matter is, like, once you kind of hit some a place, there's nothing that you can really reverse. Yeah. It's everything is possible, but it's extremely complicated compared to other diseases, right? Right? Once the nervous system is badly damaged and, you know, your brain undergoes

atrophy and a lot of the brain cells are lost. So, yeah, it takes, it would take, like, a some remarkable regenerative process to do it. Yeah, to bring it back and bring it back without doing damage to to the very delicate nervous system, right? So, it's not just you get to bring it back, but, you know, you also have to save what's left that is still working, you know. Exactly. As I'm a patient, it can still function relatively normal physically, right?

“Not all of them, but the minimum can. And so, you have to preserve all of that. Don't, you cannot”

add to it. And then, you know, you have to restore learning a memory, but it's just, it's a rough, you know, enterprise. It is. What's interesting, though, people who have been diagnosed with cancer have been prescribed, fast mimicking diet, it's been, it's been kind of known and researched to, to have had pretty remarkable results on cancer patients. Yes, so there are many trials now on fasting, making diets and cancer. And the, the one that is most studied is triple negative breast cancer

for good reason, right? The triple negative is much more aggressive, mortality is very high at five years, right? And that's one of the most common cancers in the planet. So, the multiple trials now are showing patients that did chemotherapy alone, I mean, patients did fasting making diet, plus chemotherapy, versus chemotherapy alone, they do much better, right? Survival wise. How much, how much, what is the percentage? It, four years, about three and a half, four years,

it was about nearly twice as high, the survival in the FMD plus scheme, versus scheme alone. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then the news study, which is published by the Vernieri Group, is showing progression free survival, which is not survived over all survival, but it's like, all along, you live without the cancer progressing, right? So, they're showing improvement in that,

and also improvement in what's called complete pathological response, which basically is what

they call a surrogate for overall survival, right? And so, this much higher in the patients that do

“fasting making diet, compared to the, you know, with the normally expect from the database, right?”

So, so, yeah. So, then multiple trials are now showing that with some of the most metastatic in the metastatic cancer, the most aggressive in the initial trials are very promising. Now, for the earlier type of cancer, somebody is going to receive, let's say, surgery, that's a different story, right? So, we're trying to be maybe more careful than we're saying, you know, if you have a 98% percent chance of being cured, maybe a little long, right? You know, just take

your 98%, and don't. So, the foundation that I started to, they follow lots of cancer patients every year, and usually they put them on longevity diet, they 12-hour time receiving, and lots of other things, you know, muscle training, and aerobic exercise, but they don't, with usually in the early stage cancer patients, we don't. Not that we have any evidence that is not good for you, but, you know, certainly it makes a big difference for mice and cancer, but we're just saying, until there's a trial

that is showing superiority versus the therapy alone, we don't just don't feel like, you know,

a, that you said has five pillars, we talked about the centering pillar, we didn't talk about the other four, but that has fish in that, it's, it's a, usually has fish in that diet, fast mimicking, it's vegan, like you said, what is your take on protein? Because, do you believe that too much protein can actually age you quicker? Yeah, I'm right in a review now, I'm, I'm protein. So then, and it's, it's interesting, right? Because if you look at overall all the science, that has

never been done, if you, you know, proteins, what's called characteristic, what I was talking

“about earlier, which is, normal calories you reduce it by the say 20 percent, 25 percent, right?”

That's the most successful entaging method ever done, right? If you look at, you know, thousands of studies, right? By reducing your calories by 20 percent. Yeah, reducing that below excess, I mean, reducing it is a normal calorie intake, let's say, whatever, 3000 kilo calories, then you reduce it by 25 percent, right? And that's the best aging, that's the best weighted. Yeah, if you look down here, that would beat any other intervention, because there are literally thousands of studies, including

human studies showing remarkable effects, right? And so if you think about the second one, it's probably protein restriction. Or if you think about it, the only one that doesn't require you to eat less is protein restriction. My rats, you know, and the monkey is a little longer, they were color-estated, but also protein restricted. Yeah, so I think if you look at all the studies, the indication would be that it's sufficient, but low protein diet, that is mostly plain-based,

it's going to make you live longer or a little longer. Now, if you look at the epidemiological data, only, which is what most of my, you know, most of the podcasts, let's say, I'll be talking about. Then, you know, it's a lube, you could get lots of different answers, right? You could get high

“proteins, good for you. Mid protein is good for you. That's why I'm asking, yeah. So especially”

in the fitness and wellness world, right? We're all told that we need to be eating a lot of proteins, especially in mid-life, right? Like to keep, you know, lean muscle on, like all you hear now is protein protein protein, creatine creatine creatine, like anything to kind of increase your protein. Yeah. So you're saying the opposite, you're saying if you want to live longer and age better, stop eating so much protein. Yes, for sure stop eating so much protein, but have enough protein

and have proteins that include proteins, let's say, two-thirds of very good quality, I mean, I say profile, right? So, for example, if all your proteins come from legumes in your law, you're going to have a problem, right? Yeah. So, so, and I think the vegans, you could be vegan and very healthy, but you need to pay attention to what you're eating because otherwise, you're going to end up being malnourished, right? Yes, it's a lot easier and this is probably why the doctor

is always recommended, yeah, eat a little bit of everything because it's much less likely that

somebody eats meat once a week and fish two or three times a week and chicken, those are going to do pretty well, you know, now they're not going to do as well, maybe as those that are vegetarian and they have a more restricted diet, but they're generally going to do pretty well.

“So, so then you have to, you know, you have to look at what you're trying to achieve.”

So, if you're trying to achieve a long lifespan and, you know, but you also want the strength, I think it's, it's probably good to, I go back to the pesqueterian diet, the pesqueterian pesco vegetarian. Right, like fish fish, but also some eggs, maybe up to three a week, three eggs a week, three eggs a week, three eggs a day. Well, I mean, the data in the case that, you know, after three days, eggs a week, you know, in general, I mean, let's put it this way, they're not,

lots of, we're going back to epidemiological studies, lots of studies say it's fine, right? Right, if you don't have too many eggs, but some of the biggest one are showing the past three eggs a week, you start into sea mortality increase, right? Now, you know, it's a, it's an association, it doesn't mean the eggs were causing it, but that's not a good start, right? If you start seeing, you know, this particular food is not, the eggs are normally not associated with living long,

I mean it's like, you know, the goons are and a whole grain wheat is and, you know, nuts are and, and olive oil is and, right? Well, the eggs, you don't see it, right? See the neutral or negative,

that's, that's usually where you see them. Now, red meat is always very negative, and then

why me, it's negative to neutral and eggs and there is usually, you know, neutral to bad.

it's probably okay, but, you know, maybe not. Maybe not. Maybe not. If you're saying like,

maybe it's neutral at best. It's neutral at best. At best. Yeah. So, but, okay, so dairy, like Greek yogurt,

“would that be neutral? Generally, lots of the, the berries would put them in the center, right?”

And neither good for you. So, for example, this is very nice work done at Harvard looking at what are the ingredients that are going to get you to 70 or 75 healthy and, you know, and you have the, in this case, fruits, I mean, you know, I think it should be more limited, because if people here, you know, fruit is at the top then they can, you know, eat too much fruit. Yes, that's true. But, but I say, you know, vegetable and fruit nuts and legumes and a whole grain,

we're at the top and then, you know, the bread meat and the processed meat was at the bottom. Right. And then, you know, and the last of the eggs and the dairy is in the yogurt and in the center, right? So, probably, you know, if you're not looking for a record, you know, if you most people are not

looking to get the record longevity and they're basically, it's, it's not about compromise to, you know,

yogurt or, or, and of course, it's very, it's high nourishment, right? So, then, certainly, in the, as you get to 65 or older or 60, older, those are probably the type of ingredients that might help you not become frail. So, so then, there is also the idea of different stages of life, forget the foods, for different foods and food quantities, right? When you get to a certain age, the most people start losing weight and their weight loss is usually associated with living

“shorter, right? Right. So, that's why when you get to 65 and, for somebody to be 60,”

for somebody else could be 70, right? It's chronologically chronological age. So, when you get to the

point, you want to stay there and stay strong, right? Right. And so, yeah. So, for, to stay there,

stay strong, some people might have to have yogurt and, and eggs or more eggs and more yogurt. Some people may not get. I guess you're right, you're going to think about all the different, there's so many different benchmarks that you're like, or like different variables that you're looking at, right? To like, what, what will make someone healthy? But you're saying that, which fish usually fish is neutral? No, no, fish is positive. The fish should neutral the positive,

the mineral positive. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. The pesky terian, the pesky vegetarian, they tend to do better than everybody else, right? What about salmon that's farmer's though? Like fish that's farmer's, is that still neutral the positive? We don't know that, right? So, we know there are toxins that continue with it. And so, usually the recommendation is maybe either once a week, right? So, if you have a farmer's salmon, yeah, once a week. So, you limit whatever toxins that are associated

with the fats in the salmon. And because if you think about so many food, so much food, yeah, it's got toxins in it, right? So much. Yeah. And so, if you went around and analyzed, so for example, I tell people, most people don't know the brown rice is got arsenic. Yeah, arsenic is sure. Yeah. So, I mean, in the, you know, in the Mercury and the, so there's

“and the acrylamide, and so, and a lot of it is in vegetables, right? And so, yeah, so I think that. So,”

what do you say? You also have to say, I get it's something. So, maybe rotate a lot, right? And don't eat the same foods all the time. And don't eat the same farmer's salmon, three times a week, or the same tuna twice a week, because, you know, the Mercury portion is a reality. And so, yeah, so then instead of scaring people with, you know, don't eat anything, it's because then people going to the model and say, well, I can't, you know, I can't have anything,

but yeah, you can, but try to, you know, if it's salmon, farm rice, make it once a week. Yeah. So, what about you? Because you said, you said that brown rice does have arsenic, which some of us know, do you recommend to people to have white rice then and stay away from brown rice because of that poison? I mean, it's a poison, right? But, you know, if you had let's say once a month, it's, let's get maybe twice as high as some of the white rice,

right? Or two or three times. It's not like 20 times higher, right? Yeah. So, so I think that the bigger problem comes in when somebody, and you, I meet these people all the time, the same I eat three times a week. Right? That's when you're going to get in trouble, right? And that's when we, you may get it end up with arsenic poisoning, like Mercury, right? So, if you start having sore fish and tuna three or four times a week, that's going to be a problem. If you have

tuna once a month, you're probably going to be okay. You're okay. And what do you eat? When is your diet look like? Yeah, my diet is really everything that I preach right? So, I have

but both of those I get from southern Italy, and I store them. And then, you know, I have some fruit,

and then I skip lunch and, you know, and it's not necessarily good thing, right? But that's an example of a compromise, right? So, for me, whenever I don't skip, I've been doing it for 20 years, and that's the only way we together with the fasting meat in the eye that I can keep the weight that I want. That you want. Yeah. I'm going back to your question earlier, you know, my way this polysat, like 20, 25 pounds higher than I am, but you changed it. To keep it there, I have to do lunch,

and I have to do the FMD, and I have to do the longevity diet, right? So, then in the night, I have this big, you know, mini-strones with the legumes, and lots of vegetables, and an olive oil, and pasta,

and, but, you know, I have maybe 75 grams, 80 grams of pasta, and, you know, yeah. So, the mistake

of people make is to have a lot of these starches and little nourishment, right? And you're going to

“turn around, you have to have a lot of vegetables and the gooms and little pasta or rice, right?”

Why rice or brown rice? And yeah, those are the ideal combination, right? And that's how people use to do it, because they were poor, and that's all they had. You know, the minestrone is all over the Italy, right? Because you have the genoeuvres, in Leguria, you have the genoeuvres, the minestrone, and in the south, what it was, is people were poor, and so at some point, running out of food, and they were just grabbing anything they had. And it's pretty annoying. And put it in, right?

So, that you get an extra meal. So, that's gone now, right? Even in Italy, you know,

it does that anymore. And now you have these big rice dishes and pasta dishes and whatever else, right? They start just that, you know, of course, you're going to make your game weight and they're going to make your insulin resistant, and they're going to make you die earlier. So, how often would you suggest people even doing fast mimicking diets? Like, what would be the most optimal to get

“optimal results to live the longest in healthiest? How often? Yeah, I think that depends, right?”

So, for example, in the diabetes trials, it's every month for either six cycles or 12 cycles, right? These are patients that have diabetes. But the case that I told you earlier, this doctor only did three times, right? In six months, and it still worked, right? So, so I think that, yeah, you can start the doctor, in this case, in the case of a diabetes patient, could start with every month, and then move to once every two months, and then every three months,

and take it from there. You know, for everybody else, I think maybe like three times a year, three times a year? Yeah, maybe even two, maybe I do one sort of twice, right? But I skip lunch, you know, and I do the longevity diet, and I do everything else. So, so, yeah, to me, it's not as, I don't need as many, but, you know, most people are overweight, and, you know, obese, and, and they have lots of other issues. And so, as those issue come around, so, for example,

Stanford just published on Crohn's Disease, the University of Miami, published on the FMD, and you also write in colitis, and the University of Rome, published on the FMD, and I post me the loss of all factory function, smell and taste, right? And the ability of FMD to restore taste and smell loss. So, yeah, I mean, every, every different people have, or don't have different problems, and then they have to decide how to use the FMD based on where they start,

or from based on baseline, right? Where they're starting point. What about fasting and women, because there's a lot of chatter about fasting, not being great for women, hormones, especially as women, are in middle age? Yeah, I mean, fasting, again, is good bad and neutral. It doesn't mean anything, we just mentioned right 16 hours, 18 hours, probably in a good 12 hours,

“probably very good. And yeah, so, I think that probably is very good for women, and, you know,”

at least 50% of the patients in the many 40 clinical trials that are being completed now, with the fasting making diet. Obviously, the majority are women, and they did very well in the great majority of the trials. So, yeah, so working very well for women, I think what we still need to define, so for example, we just finished a trial on a polycystical variant syndrome, and one on endometriosis, and we're going to be publishing those soon. And yeah, I think the timing

is still, you know, somebody's period, for example, when is the best time to do it, you know? So,

you know, maybe there is a period where it's not going to work very well, right? So, I think soon enough,

we're going to start publishing, you know, don't do it in this moment, you know? But yeah, besides, maybe that one week a month where maybe I'd be ideal to do it, I would say the effects have been remarkably positive. Can fasting help prevent cancer or can it help a lot when you only when you've already been diagnosed and helped potentially with the diagnosis? Yes, so there is no doubt that diet prevents cancer. I mean, like if you have the perfect diagnosis there,

right, the bad diet. And now, in mice, we were able to, you know, show about a 45% in female mice, 45% reduction in tumors, life long. So, big, big effect. And but also, it looked like not only it was a 45% reduction, but many of the tumors were benign, personal malignant. Oh, yes, so it's a dual effect. And they were, they happened later, they were benign, and they were much lower, right, overall. But yeah, then, you know, we're as with some of the diets like midterranean diet,

when there is about like a 7% lower cancer risk, right, more cancer mortality risk, life long, which is not a lot, but, you know, there is enough. It's better than nothing. And yeah, so for this newer diets and more, you know, at least scientifically, diets have expectation to be much stronger, like fasting making diet long, even diet. We need to do more work. So, so now we're starting to do

the first trials with, you know, for example, the Calabria trial, they were just finished. Also,

I had an arm that was doing bottle longevity diet and the fasting making diet. So, now, you know, we're about to publish several studies in mice that were, we do the longevity diet, you know, for the entire life. So, so we'll see now what they show on cancer prevention, but yeah, the expectation is cancer, be lower or much lower, or certainly, it'll happen later, and it'll be, you know, some of the malignant cancers will be, we'll show up as benign tumors here.

So, let's talk with the GLP ones. We're touched upon at the beginning of the conversation. Do you think there's any potential side effects to GLP ones? Like, could you think a GLP one

“could possibly show it to cancer, causing medication, peptide, later down the road?”

Because people don't know, right? They've been using it for diabetes for so long, or for many

years. Yeah. Yeah. People know everyone in their dog is using it for weight loss. Right. People don't know. And everything is possible. It's also possible that it's going to reduce cancer, right? So, so that would be the expectation based on, because it does help with inflammation. It may help a little bit with inflammation, but it just lowers your risk factor for cancer, which is obesity and diabetes, right? So, those are risk factors for cancer. And so,

if you reduce that, you know, then, then, for example, cardiovascular disease. Now, we know the GLP one, at least initial data, it reduces about 10%, right? So, so people on GLP one, have about 10% cardiovascular disease, reduce risk. Now, you know, in my new book, which is not in English yet, it's called the weight of longevity, you know, I'm comparing it to just a Mediterranean diet.

“And I'm saying the Mediterranean diet seems to have a 30% decreasing cardiovascular disease, right?”

So, now, don't show off. Please don't show off the GLP one, 10% effect. When the Mediterranean diet is showing 30%, right? And it doesn't have any side effects and now we're saying that we could probably do much better than the Mediterranean diet. But even if you just use the Mediterranean diet, it's so much better, right? It's so much better, right? You say, you get weight loss and you get a lot of benefit. So, I think that there is a long list of side effects of GLP one. And now,

the new studies are showing something very scary, which is, you do it. You're going to need to continue doing it. If you stop, you're going to regain the weight. And when you regain the weight, after you stop, you regain the weight much quicker or quicker than people that have lost the weight with diet, right? So, and they, at least the potential mechanism that I saw was that you're not making your own GLP one because, you know, you're getting the drug. It's like when you take testosterone,

“your body stops taking testosterone, so it could be the same thing. It could be the same thing, right?”

So, this is what the scientists have published at paper. I think speculated or they have some evidence for it. But either way, it was clear that the regain weight more quickly. And so,

It's a little bit like addiction, addictive drugs, or, you know, addictive foods, right? So,

all of a sudden, now, I give you something that you can never get away from. A hundred percent.

Also, though, it's, um, if you're, if you're burning a third muscle, right? You're, uh, so, right, so you're burning a, a muscle off your body. Your metabolism will obviously slow down. So, when you get off of them, your body doesn't have the same accelerated metabolism, or whatever metabolism you have because you don't have as much muscle to burn. Not only that, but now what you regain is fat, right? Right? So, we're not even counting that,

you regain the fat more quickly, but you're not regaining the muscle, or you gain a lot less muscle, right? Yes. So, that, that really may condemn you to be stuck on this drug that has got so many

side effects for the rest of your life. I know. It's something for decades. It's scary. And, you know,

“I think what's problematic, very problematic, is that the physicians are not saying this, right?”

The physicians are now saying, well, you know, and I, I can see that when somebody has tried, I mean, so if you, if you, if you look at our foundation, you know, sometimes, we have doctors, we have, uh, PhDs, we have nutritionists, sometimes they cannot do it, right? They can take somebody, and for most people, great. They do very well, and they become better, and they become healthy, but some people cannot. So, I think it's fair to say, I tried everything.

We've been trying for three or four years, and any, it takes two to three years, as, as they happen for the doctor that I was talking about earlier, it took them two years to get back to normal, right? From diabetes, hypertension, obesity to normal person, right? Right. And so, so, if the team, let's say in this case, work on him for three years. Right. And as a three years, it's just still stuck, and all these problems,

then I think it's okay to be on GF1, right? Right. And I think it's okay to decide everything. I tried everything, but not the way it is now. You go to the doctor and the doctor, you know, says, you know, I don't know. If you want, spend the money and go to a dietitian. Right, right, right, right. The system is not really there to provide what we provide as a foundation, which is, or the, the clinicians provide the foundation, which is, I'm going to follow you, you know,

I'm going to be your friend for the next two or three years, right? So that we find a way to get you back to, to full health that that's not reversed, that doesn't exist, right? And so, either you have the money to pay for it, or you don't get it, and what you get is the drug. Right. So the doctor says, come on, you know, I don't know anything about nutrition and I cannot follow you every couple weeks and to see how you're doing. I cannot be your friend. Right. You know, so I'm just going to give you a drug to begin with.

“That's what that's a big problem, right? And I'm just really surprised that the media are not”

talking about more and the doctors are not talking about more. Say, hey, you know, please reimburse the rest, right? Because once the rest remembers, then it's a fair game to say, hey, you need GLP1, right? Because at least get that 10% lower cardiovascular, right? Because you're not going to be able to the Mediterranean diet, you're not going to be able to do longevity diet, you're not going to be able to do the FMD, or whatever. And yeah, so then we do the second best and the drug is certainly valuable in that sense.

Well, no, I've seen myself with friends of mine who are on it and they lost a lot of weight and they looked great. And then when they got off, because they thought, they thought, oh, great, you know, now I'm at my lower than my goal weight. And they gained the weight plus more within a month, within a month. People were gaining like 40 or 50 pounds in a month. Yeah. That's scary. But even more scarier, scary is what is the chance that somebody can stay on it for five or 10 years?

“I know exactly. Is that because I think it's over 70% abandon within two years, right?”

But what about five or years or ten years? Because if the answer is 95% are going to abandon,

then you know, then you're making a big mistake, right? Because everyone's going to be overweight again. Everybody's going to be overweight, but with all the side effects, they come with just five years of the drugs, right? When are the side effects that you've seen? Well, for example, Neyan, so this is the skimia, optic, nerve, skimia. And then there is, you know, certainly studies showing both things, but certainly multiple studies showing depression,

anxiety. Some studies are showing positive effects, but some studies are showing very bad negative like doubling of suicide rate. And so now, who's right? I don't know, but certainly

you know, anxiety and depression and suicides rates. So yeah, so then I'm not saying they're,

you know, conclusive meaning, right? All we know that there, but that's not, you know, a good association to, to see those type of studies. And so yeah, then we just say the muscle loss, potentially bond density, although that doesn't, you know, again, the muscle is very clear. The bond density is not very clear. Some studies are showing, no, no, loss of bond density. But then again, it's pretty short term, right? So what if you do it for 10 years? You know, then are we going

to see that in the bond density loss? Exactly. We're going to see how store porosity increases. Sure.

“Somebody that has been on a for 20, 30 years. Yeah. So it's just a mind field. And I think, you know,”

people are just walking through it, right? Walk it through it. What about the fact that, like you said, people get off of it or abandon it as you put it within two years? Why is two years the point where the people are just getting off of it? Yeah, this is the papers that I saw multiple papers. They don't show why. So it could be your satisfied with what when you're doing it. You think you got it? Yeah. Or it could be that you're depressed or it could be that you have big side effects, right? So,

you know, the doctor, for example, that we followed had major side effects, right? So, yeah. So, there's a lot of gastrointestinal side effects and lots of issues. But for all the reasons combined that over 70% were no longer doing it. What about the fact, what did you think or have you heard that after a time period, people's bodies tend to affirmate on the drug? Because people can eat through their appetite. Like, you know, like, I have a lot of people I know who it worked great

for a year, year and a half, even two years. And now they're just eating back to what they were, because they've, like, the body became so acclimated to the drug. So, unless you keep on increasing and increasing the dose, you're kind of screwed. Yeah. I mean, that's certainly, you know, you need all more studies. But also, if you think about drugs, in a GLP one is one case, but also statins, right? They're really, we think of drugs as very sophisticated, right? So,

there's a lot of studies behind it, and you know, now you have a molecular target, and this is going after the receptor of GLP one. But the drugs are really dumb, right? Because now you have the human body, and this is like this perfect orchestra with every moving part, you know, there's

three and a half billion years in the making, right? Three and a half billion years of evolution.

And so now you have that in where we've seen earlier, right? The fasting response and the fat is broken down, and in this preserving is making glyceros, so the glyceroneau is preserving the muscle. So, this is very sophisticated. And now you're replacing it with keep pushing the same button,

“right? Okay. So, you're somebody sitting there and pushing GLP one button all the time, right?”

If you think about it, it just doesn't look good, right? Compared to this sophistication of the human body, then now you have somebody pushing the button. So, in the green majority of the cases, it's just a matter of time before you're going to get bad results from so many pushing the same button 10 times a day for the rest of your life, right? So, yeah. So, they come on coming out with a new one. It was first the GLP one. Now, there's like, it works on two receptors with phase appetite. Now,

it works on three receptors. But before you do that, the more you do that, probably you have now a potentially synergistic trouble zone, right? Because if one drug can cause problem, now two drugs may cause five times more problems, right? Or at least have the potential. We don't know, because it's now you're interfering with two pathways, right? And then if you have three, now you probably, you know, there's probably, I don't know, I'm speculating, you know, but, you know, now as you imagine,

let's take a car, let's take a car, right? And let's take, I mean, a good example is that, you know,

you take a laser, that is, that is very powerful, right? And you start using the laser

“running through your engine and any part of your car, and till the car goes a little bit faster, right?”

Okay. And then, then you say, okay, wow, you know, now I found a point where the laser, you know, it makes the car go faster. So let me keep doing that, right? And now you're going to do another laser, another hole through your car, so that goes a little bit faster, right? Well, I guess what's probably going to happen if you ask any mechanic? Well, by the time you have poked three or four holes in my car, my go faster, but it's going to break down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, so you can think of this as the same way, right? You know, it's really putting a hole. I mean, yeah, it can achieve an effect, like weight loss, but it's really not coordinated with the

you know, I put a hole in there, and that's not the way you want to make a car go like longer,

“right? Yeah, so you're sending your car up for breaking down, right? And so, yeah, so I think”

the theoretical level now, and hey, I'm saying the theoretical level, but yeah, we know the every drug out there, eventually, uh, so on the new data, for example, a statin shows that people that have less than 170 or so in LDL don't live longer, you know, don't have a decrease in mortality, if they take statin, right? So, so I think that, and these are like, jama, uh, new ingangron medicine, uh, you know, metanalysis, right? This is not like one study.

These are studies that are looking at all the studies, right? And they put it together and say,

hmm, that's really interesting. People that have, you know, LDL 160, LDL not all cholesterol,

they seem to be better than people that have very low cholesterol. So, are you explained that, right? And so, yeah, so I think, at the beginning, you get the story, oh, you know, this should be in the water, like, statin should be in the water, they're so good for you. And then 20, 30 years later, you get the story, it's like, no, the metanalysis, so maybe you shouldn't have taken it. So, so, uh, yeah,

“so I think that, again, I'll go to the GLP one thing, if you need it, you need it, right? So,”

so some people, yeah, for example, the studies, I think it was New England, it was showing that, for people that already had cardiovascular event, there's no doubt that statins were good, right? It reduced your mortality by 10%, no doubt. So, there was very clear, even after 20 years, but there was the only group that seemed to be benefiting from the statins. And yeah, so I think that we need to have a system that is, they can help you do it the right way. And then with all the tools,

like, including the FMD, the 12 hours and lots of other things, you know, that can help you, because, you know, if it's not feasible, if you're asking people to do something like Italians, in the Mediterranean diet, you know, probably less than 10% of Italians are doing the Mediterranean diet. Why? People don't like to be told what to eat, right? And, uh, and they include, me telling them what to eat. But this is what we're saying, okay, yeah, you can have the longevity diet

and this is what we do in the clinic, or you can have the FMD, right, and look at the mouse, and look at the people, right? You know, they have a crazy diet, and, and at least they do the FMD,

right? So, let's talk with a mouse for a second, right? Like, it has there been any, like,

data, anything talking about the how a, does a, does a, most correlate to a human, because I've seen studies that say that doing tests on mice doesn't necessarily correlate to how a human will behave or perform. Um, you know, it correlates, it doesn't necessarily mean the humans are going to behave the same way, right? So, so yeah, so most of the drugs that you see out there have been tested in mice, right? So immunotherapy, chemotherapy, just name it, cancer drug,

“diabetes, drugs, etc. Everything goes to the mouse, and usually that's how we start. So I start”

to, oh, it works for the mouse, and then let's come up with a drug that they'll do the same in people. Yeah, so the mouse is a very good model, and what else can you test on? Well, you could test that in, in, in rabbits, you can test in rats, you can test that. In some cases, they require monkey studies, you know, because it is so dangerous for a, for a person, and so they may require a, you know, a primate model. Yeah. Yeah, but those are, you know,

expensive and, and, ethically, you know, the, the medical field is trying to move away from, you know, from using monkeys too. But as a mouse and a rat, the same thing I would imagine? No, no, the rat for certain things is, is a better model, right? And the, and the mouse is a better model for all the things. It's easier to work in mice, but I think that, for example, we have shown the FMD cycles being able to cause reprogramming and stem cell, depending on a regeneration in mice, right? In

multiple, so the pancreas, the gut, and different different systems. And so a year ago, we published the for kidney, we published in the rat. And so we now show that we can damage the kidney, the rat, kidney, and then start the fasting Megan die cycles, and the rat kidney goes back to being functional, after six FMD cycles. So that was particularly important for us, because it's just unlikely that you now tested in two different role models and you're gaining very similar effects. So they

makes it much, your case, much stronger moving to people. Of course, we read down 40 human clinical trials, but in fact, in that trial, we had the small human trial for chronic kidney disease patients.

but it worked. So, so yeah, I think that, that having studies in, in mice and rats and,

“and then humans, this is the best way to go. Wow. Okay. What about, like, you have these labs,”

both in U of U of U of U of U of C, and in Italy right now? Yeah. Yeah, the lab, we need to still open, I probably close it by the end of this year, but just too much. But yeah, in Italian lab was focused on oncology, molecular oncology, so cancer. And, and the U.S. lab here, U of C is instead focused on aging and regeneration and, you know, fasting and longevity diet, etc. What other findings have you found in all of your work beyond fasting that help with aging

backwards or slowing down the aging process? Yeah, so yeah, the longevity diet, so now we're going

to publish several papers and then, you know, protein restriction has always been one of the things

that we've worked on. For example, some years ago, we used an Alzheimer's, that mice that have this genetic mutation that give people as I'm earlier. And so it's called triple transgenic mouse. It's got three bad mutations that make this mouse develop this bad learning and memory. And then, we used the, in the first paper, we used, we alternated one week of a very severe protein restriction and one week of normal proteins, right? We just kept going back and forth and it made a lot of

it. It wasn't as good as as the fasting mimicking diet, but it was very good, you know, very good effects, right? So, so just alternating, very low protein diet with normal protein diet, week, one week on, one week off, that made a big difference. Yeah, so, how much of a different,

it's like 20 percent? Oh, you know, we looked a lot of different things, but, you know, in some

of the cognitive testing, it made a big difference. Really? But how much could you give me an example, like give me a data point? Well, you know, usually we look at restoration of normal function,

“right? So, so, in some cases, it was making it, it was bringing it back to normal, right?”

Oh, yeah. So, so now you see a big effect of the genetic mutations, and then what you want to see, you have a control mouse, and you have a genetically modified mouse that's got this cognitive impairment, and then you do the alternate protein restriction, and then, then, menu the really several of these changes went back to normal or close to normal, or, you know, no longer is bad, right? So, a range of effects in. Well, what you take on all these supplements,

like, or peptides, even, you know, everyone's taking all these peptides for longevity, right? You have so many. What's your, do you have any, like, you have an opinion on all these things? Yeah, I think it goes back to what I said earlier, which is the, the sophistication of the system versus the something comes in. Yeah, so it's effected GLP1. Yeah, so it's the same argument, right? The, the exception would be like, in the case of rapid mice, and, right? So, rapid mice is a,

is a drug that blocks a particular pathway, which we, you know, there's have described as being pro-aging or religion accelerating. So, if the peptide or whatever, or the drug goes after a

“master regulator, then I think it could be triggering this sophistication, right?”

But those are very rare. So, most things you do are going to, you know, act downstream somewhere, meaning like they're blocking something that is down there, right? It's, it's not the master regular appear. Right, right? So, so, so, if a peptide change, for example, growth hormone or IGF1, this very high-level master regulators, then it's got a chance, right? Because, you know, it could be telling the body, don't go in mode A, which is B, which would be, for example, high reproductive

mode, high growth, right? So, as certain age, we're not reproducing and we're not growing, right? Right. So, why is it that we put in all the energy into reproduction and growth patterns, right? It makes no sense, right? So, then the, the, the lot of organisms, we know, the, for example, 30 years ago, we made unicellular eukaryas, unicellular organism, we have 10 times longer, right? 10 times. Yeah. And so, you do that by, we did it by fast in them and by imposing two genetic mutations,

which push them to be in this local maintenance mode, right? So, don't worry about growth, sub-growing, and, you know, and stop reproducing, right? Right. Just focus on yourself, right? So, interesting, right? Then, yeah. So, if there are master regular and they're seemed like, in all organisms that have been tested, there are, if you turn on the switch to stop focusing on the next

be peptides that are eventually hit that switch, right? Right. Right. If they hit that switch,

mean, the, the science fiction switch would be one that doesn't affect metabolism, it doesn't affect performance, it just affects your, you're not growing and you don't need to grow and you're not reproducing, and, you know, and you can stop it when you want to reproduce, right? So, you can say, okay, you know, yeah, whatever, I use it until I'm 34 and then a 34 stop for a year, I reproduce and then go back on the, and the peptide, or, you know, it could be a dietary intervention or both, yeah.

Or, body, and about just, even the fact that people are a lot of people are taking, you know, NAD's really, it's really a popular, an AD metformance, very popular, you're saying the only one that

“can maybe move the needle is reprimisen. Well, metformance is also a little bit of a master regular, right?”

Yeah, okay. But, but, um, the data, if you look at metformine effects in mice, it doesn't make even a mouse live longer, as far as I remember. Rob on mice and does, and does in a very consistent way, right? Yeah. So, so that, you know, if you made a mouse live longer by whatever peptide, you made a rat live longer, like say 20% longer, or something like that, at least, right? If you made a mouse live 20% longer, you made a rat live, you live in 20% longer, okay. Then it starts, and then it's very safe,

like, right, let's say metformine. Then I think it'll be a good candidate, right? But, you know, we don't have anything like that right now. And Rob on mice is probably the only one, do you take that, should everybody be taking it? No, no, because Rob on mice is also because hyperglacemia. And yeah, it's not good. And so, you know, and that's where it may be, it might be good for a mouse. And then this is certainly for a person, right? So, so, yeah. But,

that tells you that the potential is there for some drugs to go after master switches. And then eventually, you know, we're going to say, "Hey, this is really safe." But, of course, you know, the FMD is already there, right? The FMD may be done three times a year. It's already doing all of this. Right. With no safety issues, right? And then... Well, and D also takes out all the

“senescent cells, right? Isn't that, like, a benefit that people get? Yeah. Well, four things, right?”

One autophagy. Right? So, you need three, four, five days, probably the whole five days, for autophagy. So, the cells start eating themselves, right? And that's one. Then, clearly, is doing stem cell activation. And now, we're seeing it in multiple human-click shots. We're seeing major increase in either stem or progenitor cells. And then, reprogramming all cellular level. Like, so, you know, now the hardest thing in aging research is how can you take an old cell and make it

young, again, right? And it's called, you know, cellular reprogramming. And epigenetic cellular reprogramming. And, uh, but now we're shown over and over and over, yeah, from the refeeding cycles, do that in a very

amazing, encordinated way. And then metabolic reprogramming, right? What I said earlier, the fasting

mimicking diet refeeding are now metabolically rewiring your system. And it's not a cellular problem, it's necessarily, but it's more, it could be cellular somewhere, maybe in the deposits. But it's basically telling your body, stop accumulating fat, start using fat. And in the beauty, if you look at our working mice, rats and humans, is the keeps on going, right? So it's not that you do the fasting mimicking diet. And then a week later, it's all gone. You do the fasting mimicking diet.

And then, for months, actually, in the first trial, we did the USC three months later, 60% of the effects were still there, right? So after five, you know, three FMD cycles once a month, we stopped and then we look at three months later and then you see about 60% of the changes that are still there, right? So yeah, so I think drugs are okay, but I would say that we probably haven't been as loud as others, you know, in advertising, you know, I think the people that do

some of these peptides and pills have been louder than us in claiming and over claiming, we've been, and also the companies involved, I think there have been more the stick to the

“data, stick, what you know, don't over claim. And maybe that's why some of the other things are”

more popular than the FMD data. I think they're both, I mean, I think that people who know, no, I know, like the community of doctors, I know who who prescribe the fast mimicking diet to patients,

just for their overall health, never mind for like, you know, longevity or for cancer, it's pretty

It's just more about people who know, no, and if you don't know, you don't know, right? So,

“right, right? Yeah, but I think, you know, now there is soon enough for an opportunity to make a”

mainstream, right? Yeah. And it should be mainstream, right? Because of all the things we say, you know, it's going after Crohn's and colitis and cognition and inflammation and it's going after cancer cells. And it's doing in a safe way. I don't think too many people are arguing, if you do this three times a year. Right, right. We get that three times a year. That, you know, you're not going to find too many doctors say, oh, no, this is going to cause problem in the long run.

I mean, you're not going to speak every day. You're not like restricting. So, you're not into calorie restricting every day. You're not into yo-yo dieting. You're actually not even necessarily into vegan every day. Because you're saying, you're not. So, you're like saying, long, the long Jevity diet, it's eating pests, but like, you know, eating fish, you know, more like a Mediterranean diet. I say, you know, mid-doreen is for me, Doreenian people, right? So, if you're, if you're, you're

catching a lot of oil from Norway or from Sweden or from Japan, you shouldn't have a Mediterranean

“diet. You should have a longevity diet. There is, you know, there is a personalised for you, right?”

Then, and it's time for an hour. Which is about fish, typically. Which is still going to be about fish, low mercury fish, and low toxic fish, and it's going to be about legumes of different kinds, right? It's going to be about whole grains. It's going to be about oils, and maybe there's a few different ones. The olive oil is different, definitely good, but it doesn't mean it's the only one. So, if you have, if you come from, there are all the vegetable oils that are good, and the

nuts, well, there's some, you know, I, I, I haven't investigated as much as I've done for, um, for olive oil, but, you know, there's some, like, maybe some flour or some of these vegetable oils.

They have good data behind it, but, but, you know, I don't want to, I've never spent the time

because I'm so happy with the results of the olive oil, and it just covers so much of the world population that, you know, I can do, deal with that. And then, I think the nuts and the dark chocolate. And so there's a lot of sources of healthy fats that are fairly confirmed to be healthy or very healthy for you, you know, we never investigated, but it doesn't mean that not all the oils, for example, or fats sources that, you know, eventually could be as good as,

as olive oil. Okay, but you're basically just saying, though, that for 15 days of the year, five days, you know, even every quarter is a good chance. It can give you a fighting chance, so to speak, to really live longer and healthier. Yeah, I wouldn't call a fighting chance. I mean, the data is just spectacular. I know, I mean, you know, like, if you think it's a good, yeah, I'll say, yeah, like, so basically, let me, let me, let me, let me recay that then, basically, you're saying that

if someone does fast-moving at least every quarter, let's say for five days, the chances of them living longer and healthier are spectacular based on your research. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not so I'm too far on the other side. I mean, I think the results of this spectacular, especially mice, especially in rats. I mean, really unbelievable, right? You know, taking a kidney or pancreas, there's completely, you know, damaged and reversibly, and then restoring in it's normal function, right?

They mean, it's hard to believe. That's pretty amazing. Yeah, right. So that is spectacular, though, Dr.

“Yeah, yeah, that's what I was saying. Yeah, that part is spectacular. But it's in mice and rats.”

Now, the 40 clinical trials are showing really remarkable results with insulin resistance, you know, glycemia and inflammatory markers and cholesterol and blood pressure and, you know, over and over and over and over in very consistent way, clinical, right? Yeah. So those are very good. Yeah, so I think that that, I mean, it's not a fighting chance because, hey, if it's making your cholesterol lower, if it's making your blood pressure lower, if it's making your glyceema lower, is making your

biological age younger by two and a half years and it's based on a number of factors and the measurement, the number of factors. I mean, it's hard to imagine how you would die in the same time. Yeah, everything is much, much better. Well, you're still going to die in the same day. Yeah, so much, much less likely. Well, there's no guarantee, but you're stacking the deck. Yeah, so you're stacking the deck. You're doing all the right things. You know, if you combine

the longevity diet and you combine the the sleep and the 12 hour timer set the eating and you combine the two three cycles a year of fasting making diet, I think, you know, you're getting into this 15, 20 years of life expectancy increase range, right? Based on lots of data. And also, if you look at the Harvard studies, you know, the chance of getting to 75 without needing drugs, we cognitive

the US population is an I group, right? Yeah, that's what we have. One chance in 10 right now with with the way, you know, if you look at the general behavior of the population. Now, if you do all the right things, that study show that you're doubling your chance of making it to 7. So now all of a sudden,

it could be, you know, 20, 30 million people. That's amazing. All of a sudden, are getting to

70 or 75 healthy, just by making those changes. Yeah, but in this is not even counting the fasting making diet. This is just changing your everyday diet and, you know, and following a few things

“then everybody can follow. Yeah, so I think that, you know, that's the way to go. There's four”

five things you can do and if you can do them all, do them all. Right, it's amazing. What is the documentary really going to be focusing on this? All of this. All of this, yeah. That's amazing. Cancer diabetes. The doctor that I talked about is in there. It talks, it tells the story. This cancer patient that basically said, you know, I was in trouble and then I came out of it.

But I think that what we also done, which was very important in compared to lots of

documentaries, the, I pushed the director and the producer to put in the clinical trials. Right. I said, you know, don't make it about our case cases irrelevant, right? But make it a tell the story with the case. But then let's show the three or four clinical trials that have been completely

“on that, right? Yeah, so I think that that's what's special about this documentary is that,”

you know, do a right, you know, science wise, but also have the emotional part, but don't be too focused and maybe it doesn't make it as entertaining. But it certainly makes it, you know, very convincing. I think that that you have, you know, multiple clinical trials backing up the story. And when you talk about your collab in Italy, that's focusing on cancer, what are a couple of findings that maybe we don't, we haven't heard of that you kind of

brought to the surface. Yeah, the exciting new findings are what we call starvation escape path with targeting. So meaning that we can, we, we take the fascinating guide. And now we're starting to do this in, in patients, right? We take the fascinating, in the old days, it was like, okay, let's combine chemotherapy plus FM, the immunotherapy plus FM, the, find, and it works so much better together than as I would say there. Now we're saying, okay, what if we instead look at how the cancer

changes after we give them the fascinating guide, right? And you see rewiring, meaning the metabolic pathway. So not just metabolic, the, the cell changes completely, it's modality to adjust to the fascinating guide. Then we can learn, we do something called RNA sick, we can learn how they change and why they change. And then we can use drugs that are already available to target those. And this works extremely well. And it can go pretty fast. So we're very excited about this can be used for

any cancer because, you know, it doesn't matter, you're exposing to the fascinating guide, you look at our changes and you do this computational analysis and eventually we're going to do with artificial

“intelligence. And then it tells you, okay, these are the drugs you need to kill them all, right?”

And yeah, so I think that we're very excited about this and I'm hoping to to get a lot more funds to to keep it going because it's got because it's got a lot of potential. That's due to take any other supplements just for your health. I think most of the vitamin and then I alternate between like D, vitamin D and vitamin B12, in alternate, in omega 3. Yeah, yeah, I alternate because you know, probably don't need each all the

time. I don't think it's good to get overloaded with supplements. But I alternate, yeah, so every four day, every four day or so, I'll get a break. One or the other, yeah. Oh, wait, so you take vitamin D once every four days or four days on one day off. No, no, I will take every four days every the say three days. Okay, three days. And then I'll switch to B12 because a lot of my diet is, as we can vegetarian. And then I'll have, let's say, you know, omega 3 usually, I mix alcohol oil and fish oil.

What about exercise? Have you done any type of research on the effects of exercise for longevity, aging, well, health span? Yeah, exercise into the, to the fasting. Yeah, I'll say something that

it's not going to give me a lot of friends first and then I'll, I'll, I'll exercise whether it's

right? It's very far. And so I, I was just, I was just in Italy and this, um, Rosetti group

were showing the data in, you know, a sick days or, you know, the number of sick days in your life. And it was a sevenfold between the effects of lack of exercise versus a bad diet, right? Sevenfold difference in our impactful is a bad diet and, you know, of sick you're going to be in your

“life versus our is no exercise, you're going to be. Now, that's it. I think exercise is very important,”

right? You know, so I said that extra thing that, um, right? Because nutrition is 80% of it, at least, you're saying it's 100%. No, no, I'm saying it may, you know, this data suggests there may be 85% right? Yeah, 85% of the life span extension and the health span extension that you get,

it's going to come from nutrition and fasting for nutrition intervention and then the extra 15%

but I think that, you know, exercise is very important mentally and so I mean, I'm, I'm all 100% behind exercise as I, you know, 150 to 300 minutes a week, muscle training and all of that. I think it's it's very important. So, why is it important if you've seen, if you've seen the data that says it's not as important, not important for, you know, that's not important for our sick you are, right? But it doesn't mean, yeah, it doesn't mean that you're not going to be happier.

I mean, yeah, it's a tone and lots of other things that happen when you, when you exercise

“and so yeah, so I think that, and that 15% is not, you know, it's not insignificant, right? So,”

having a 15% extra benefit is very important, right? So, and you never know, right? So, you know,

as part of my classes, I also showed the effects of exercise and some of the really remarkable effects that I can say, and you see these results where they show in people that are exercising regularly, and they have cancer and they do so much better if they're exercising versus not exercising, right? And you're thinking, is it possible that, so I don't know if it's a motivation thing or if it's the actual, you know, physiological effect, but the ones that exercise, they tend to do so much better,

you know, in progression and survival and lots of other things. Yeah, so, get the mood and the mental elements of it, right? It could be mental, it could be that helps them fight, you know, their fighters and they're going to do it with all different things.

“But, some of these, these, these, some of these trials are randomized, right?”

So, it's not like you pick the ones that are more motivated, right? You take 100 people and you divide them by two and you say, you exercise and you don't, and then maybe you cross it over, right? So, some of these data is real, it's not about selection of motivated patients, but some of it might be affected by bias here. Wow, it's your right. You didn't make a lot of friends with that one. That's kidding. No, but I think, I mean, people know more or less that

it's also with like weight loss, right? Like you can exercise until the cows come home, but if you're not eating properly or eating the right foods, you're going to gain weight, it's just, it is what it is. Yeah, and there's a bigger problem that, you know, exercise and there was a paper, actually they came out of the, you know, this is a bigger loose, bigger loser, right? Of course, yeah. But then end up being a real paper, right?

Yeah. And the real paper went and followed, and I'm forgetting what journal it was, and when it followed, and most of them, I think they were doing like hours a day of exercise, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, I think when the, when the, the camera is on and the show is on, right? Whatever your show may be, you could do that. Eventually, you're going to be upset, you know, and you got problems, and you don't have time, what are you going to do that, right?

Right. And that's the, you're still going to eat, and you can still eat right food, but are you going to take the, forget the six hours, but are you going to take the one hour a day and go exercise every day? Most people don't, right? You know, in the long run, you know, if you get older, and you get, get more things to worry about, you may say, you know, well, I don't feel like, now it's raining outside, there is too hot, there's too cold, you know? Yeah. So it's a lot of,

so, so they complains in the feasibility that I was talking about before with the Mediterranean diet, eventually you're going to have it also for the, for the heavy exercise, right? And then you're going to have my brother and my sister, for example, my brother was a soccer player, and I was a soccer player, and I told my brother, you got to stop, right? Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and now he's, he's limping, right? Right? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And my sister was a triathlon around her,

and now she has a happy replacement, right? Right. So, so, you know, you know, you might have anything

right? Right. It was like, they enjoyed it, and they did it all the time, right? In two,

they could have to get surgery, right? And so, so, I see your point. So now they have to stop exercising, but they have to be eating right to keep, they have to, right? They have to learn the discipline of eating properly and, yeah, they're both eating the longevity of the ice, right? So they, but they're not doing soccer anymore, you can't, and they're not doing triathlon anymore. And I mean,

“it's just, we're three, and, and I'm the only one that, you know, I played until I was 45, right?”

Yeah. How old are you now? 58. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I played it. Well, well, you're 58. Yeah, yeah. And this is, okay, and like, this, and this is, you haven't done anything to you,

could you look really young? No, no, I haven't done anything. No, God forbid, yeah.

Yeah. And so, this is all just doing the fast mimicking diet, living a strong life. Yeah. I mean, longevity diet, fast mimicking diet, and yeah, and, I was just a long job at a diet, too. Just, you're, you're a diet, I should say. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and have it daily, have it. But you're saying, because you didn't really, you exercise, you played soccer, or you played soccer, but then you didn't play after a while, and after 45. Yeah. After 45, I stopped, right?

Then I started doing biking and things that, and, as my hip is still my hip, and I don't have any problems, right? So, yeah, to me, it was very important. I mean, somebody else could say, and there was a case where my brother and my sister, I don't care. I'm just going to keep doing. Okay, fine. No. But keep in mind. I mean, it's okay, but then keep in mind what classic Wednesday could be. So, in my case, I, I, I said, you know, I don't want to be, I don't want to be 60, and, and,

and needing a hip replacement. Yeah. And, yeah, so far, you're okay. Yeah. I'm good, right? So, I can still do my bike, you know, every, every other day. Yeah. And, and lots of other things, and, you know, they don't put me a risk for, for, you know, inflammatory conditions, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything we haven't covered, Dr. Longa, that's important for people to know about?

“And, no, I think, I think we, we pretty much covered there. Are you sure?”

Because you're here right now. I want to make sure that I go. I mean, anything done with you. Yeah, I think with the diseases we talked about cancer, Alzheimer's. I mean, I think we covered the, a lot of ground. And, like, back toys. Like, there's, is there any, like, facts that you can, like, like, that you can, like, share that maybe we haven't, like, any kind of data points that we haven't covered? No. I think, you know, one thing that I was going to say, then I, I didn't say, was, we're now going through,

you know, I mean, I'm doing this review. I'm proud to. But it's more like longevity diseases, right? And, and so, you know, that, that's consistent with what we mean saying. The other thing we, I'm having my team at the foundation, do is the, the muscle part, right? Yeah. So, so then we're looking at hundreds of papers on, you know, plant supplement, plant protein supplement and, and, and I'm proud to say, yeah. And so I think that what we're going to conclude is that probably what we already concluded before, 0.8 grams plus training,

plus muscle training, 0.8 grams per kilogram or 0.37 grams per pound of body weight is enough

“for the majority of people, even if you want to build muscle, right? But in fact, if you look at”

all these hundreds of papers, you know, those are a little one to one point two, they tend to have an easier time building muscle, right? So, so I would say, don't do it, but if you care so much about muscle, then then I think the 1.1 to 1.2, a good quality amino acids, like some animal proteins and some... Oh, I know it's been asked you. Okay, so wait, so you're just saying that like, you're, if you can have 0.8 grams of protein, it's, you don't need to have one, one, it's because the whole thing is

one, one. Yeah, we're not people are that easy to grab one point six, right? Right, right? So, they did a lot for muscle. Yeah, for muscle. And so now for sure what we're concluding is two grams, 1.6 grams, it's not needed, you know, it's very little different, you know, very few papers are showing if you have 1.6 versus 1.2, you do better, 1.6, very few. Most of them show, no effects at all. And also most of the papers show if it's animal-based, it's not superior to plant-based,

as long as it's a good mix of plant-based supplements, right? It's a lot of them are, are I sure, so they're showing total protein intake, they can also come from supplements, yeah.

Okay, you said a few times with amino acids, but if you just take a nine, like a nine essential

amino, it's like a, like a two-two-two amino. Yeah, but data, you know, we don't know what the consequences are, I think, you know, but that way you're not eating as much protein, but you're having the, the building blocks to protein. Yeah, no, no, I mean, theoretically, I think it can work,

aging process, right? So if you look at the studies in mice and rats, it's always essential amino

acids, right? The one that accelerate the aging essential, right? So brain-chain amino acids, metronin, you know, so almost exclusively, if you look at the nanosensual,

“there are the only one like glycine that seem to be doing good if supplemented, right?”

So restriction, if you look at the restrictions, they're all unessential amino acids. They work,

making rodents longer, lived, and healthier, much healthier, right? If you look at the few cases of supplementation in amino acids and living longer is glycine, which is not a nonessential amino acid. Nonessential? Nonessential, right? So yeah, so then, if you do what you,

“you say, yeah, it's just like then you might as well eat rodents, right? And that's okay, right?”

In fact, it may be better to eat rodents because now you have the nonessential,

including glycine, there may be beneficial. Because it turns out a glycine is an inhibitor of metronin, of metronin, it facilitates metronin decomposition, right? Yeah. So, so higher the glycine, the last metronin you're going to have in the system, and so it's going back to, probably it's

“going back to the essential amino acids, lowering essential amino acids. Lowering essential amino acids.”

Okay. Well, Dr. Wongo, thank you so much for being on my podcast. Oh, you're very welcome. It's been, it's been a long time awaiting for me, so I appreciate this, and where do people, I mean, they can buy your book Fasting Cancer or the longevity diet book from 2018, but they want to know more about you or where can they find you? Yeah, so Facebook, Professor Walter Longo, Facebook, and Instagram. Okay. Yeah, most, most you see faculty now have Facebook

right now, Instagram. So, most you, Professor, anywhere. Yeah, so Instagram is the same Professor Walter Longo, and then the foundation, Creatures Foundation, here in Los Angeles, and we help lots of people and including those that cannot afford it. That's great. Well, thank you again for being on the show. Thanks a lot, yeah.