Episode 555: Jamie Siminoff: Why "Acting Like a CEO" Killed More Startups Than Failure Ever Did

to Habits and Hassel, crash it. - Do you know the story of roller? - No. - It's a non-for-profit. - It is.

- It is. - It's a non-for-profit company. - Hold that thought, we should, okay, I'm gonna keep this in the park and see. - That is crazy.

- Guys, I wanted to tell you people who are, 'cause I'm already going, this is maybe on the park, yeah. - Okay, okay, okay. Okay, so we have, Jamie's been off just by the way. Then we're gonna tell you the roller story in two seconds.

Jamie is the founder of Ring. He sold it for $1.1 billion. - $1.15, I mean, just like, he knows the romantic series. (laughing)

A little, okay, and it was, it was bought by Amazon. He then went to, it was acquired, but now you went to work with for Amazon and then you stopped. - State for five years, okay. - I just, I mean, I was kind of burnt

and whatever, left for a little bit, and then I came back last. So I've been back like a year now. - Okay, then you came back to run. - And now he's back at Amazon to run Ring.

Okay, now before we even talk about you, tell us the Rolex story. - Well, so these guys do this podcast called Aquired. And what I think is interesting, some of the ones they do are companies

I just never would have known about.

And Rolex, which we all know, as I guess, a company, we thought, is actually like, it's like the largest non-for-profit in the world, or something, or one of them. It's never heard that.

- A secretive non-for-profit thing that was started by this guy during the World War I. - Oh wow. - And he basically invented the watch because when you're fighting in a war, turns out that everything was a pocket watch.

And so it'd be able to see time if you're sitting with a gun or something like you can't. So like, he basically put the pocket watch on your wrist. - So it's like a crazy story that-- - So fun.

- How did it become a non-for-profit bill? Like, how did that? - Somehow, I think, I mean, because it was so old, I think when he died or something, like gave it to this thing, it became like a charitable foundation.

And so it's the gigantic company that's not a company that's like, this brand, it's just wild. So it's a great, I mean, to anyone, it's a great podcast listen to a story that I think most people just had no idea.

- No, no, no, no. - It's just like no idea about it.

- I was basically like schooling Jamie before you,

before this whole thing of what podcast you listen to, has he heard of this, does he like it? He's not wasting his time, people do listen to it,

“and then that's how this whole story happened in the first place.”

So this is like a unique way of start and intro. - Yes. - But I like the uniqueness of it. Okay, now let's talk about you. Okay, so Jamie has a lot,

I'm sure we can clean a lot of great information for me because you really are like an entrepreneurs entrepreneur. I've read a ton of stuff about you. And what I really loved it, I was saying this to you before. Like, I really, like, what I love about you

is that you, from what you've said about yourself and when other people have said that you just have a lot of grit and you are just super persistent. And it wasn't that you, in your words,

not the most savvy smart guy, but you work really hard. - I mean, it's definitely my superpower is like, I just keep pushing, just keep grinding and grinding and grinding. - And so this is what this shows all about. Like that's obviously why it resonates

and much, it happens hustle, similar to that with you, to you. So can you just start from the beginning? I know yet you were a serial entrepreneur before a ring even happened. So what were you doing?

Like, how did this whole ring thing happen? - A serial entrepreneur is like another word for failing entrepreneurs, right? - I mean, because people would say like, oh, it's so great you're a serial entrepreneur

and it's like, yeah, I mean, I started all these things because none of them actually became anything impactful.

“And I think, and my type of entrepreneur”

is more of an inventor than an entrepreneur. So I think there's just different types. We were talking even earlier, like there's like, all these people have just built companies and sell them. There's like people that would ever,

like, I'm more of an inventor. Like I like to build something that solves a problem. And the best thing an inventor can do is solve a lot of people's problems. Like the more people you solve the problem for, the better.

And so I had started a bunch of things. I did voicemail to text so you could read your voicemail, which when you had blackberries and you were on voicemails, but that was also a time when voicemail was declining

and it just never really took off.

And so I kind of made a tiny bit of money with it, but not really. So I did a bunch of these things that were like cute, great ideas, didn't really take traction. I'm a serial entrepreneur, which means I just couldn't

find anything that worked. And then I finally, I mean, it was like, when I hit ring, like that I finally hit something that really resonated at scale. And then I could work on to build something, you know,

a massive. - Well, also you're solving it.

“It's interesting because I think I heard you say this,”

like if you were to build a doorbell company, it wouldn't have probably scaled and worked the way it is, but you kind of had a different approach or you kind of were solving more of a security for a neighborhood problem or do you talk about that?

- Yeah, and I got, I mean, luck has to be your copilot. And so I got there in a lucky way.

and inventing stuff like all these other things. I couldn't hear the doorbell. I just got an iPhone and I'm like, oh, the iPhone, there must be a doorbell that goes to the iPhone. - Right.

- This is in 2011. I looked online, there's no doorbell that goes to the iPhone, so I built one. - How did you know how to build one now? - I just like, I am a tinker.

Like I've always been a kid.

Like I'm like, what I needed something I'd go in the basement and build it. - Like the giver. - I am like my giver. Like yeah, I'm like a gritty mgaver, so.

- You basically have like a like a toothpick in a papercloth. - I mean, not far off. I mean, I went to fries, which was a, you know, back then there was fries, where all the electronic stuff was,

especially like that kind of longer-tailed electronics, and I bought a Wi-Fi camera. And because there was Wi-Fi cameras, there was lots of them, actually. And I kind of soldered and hacked something up

to make it work like a doorbell. - But how did you even, like, how did you know how to do that? Like, at the time, it wasn't chat, GPT. I guess you can Google, like, how to do this.

“- I mean, it's the best way to do anything.”

It's just like, get the soldering iron out and break it. Like, I mean, just shock yourself. Like, I mean, you know, like, it's like just,

I've always been someone who like,

the first thing I do is something is take it apart. - Oh, okay. - So, I mean, I just always, like, that's my natural curiosity. So, like, to me, like, trying to build a doorbell from a Wi-Fi camera was like, okay.

Like, let's see what happens. Like, let's see if it happens if I, like, if I do this, if I spike this, can I get an alert to come out? Like, you know, it's like, and so I just kind of played with it, built this, like, kind of hack this thing up.

I called it doorbot, because door- - Yeah. - robot sounds it funny. I'm like a guy in a garage, put it on my front door, is this giant thing, and my, I sort of, like, get my wife to use it.

And she said, it made their feel safer at home. And that was the start of this aha moment, right? All sort of home security, everything around, like, everything until that time was not being built in a way to deliver presence

to actually try to reduce crime in neighborhoods, to, like, to impact it. It was all built in, like, a pre, pre-phone, pre-connection, and that you could rebuild all home security basically in a new way.

“So, that was the, in that aha, wasn't, like, a media,”

but that was, like, the start of that aha moment, which is till today's our mission is to make neighborhood safer. Making neighborhood safer is what built ring into being the world's largest home security company, which I'm pretty sure it is today.

- If you really actually think about it, most people, I know, have the right, like, have a ring. - Most good people, yeah. - Like, most people, yeah, yeah, good people. Like, you actually created, like, you know, Kleenex, you know,

tissue, like, that's kind of what you did. You created the same kind of, for that analogy, like, an entire, like, vertical or at a whole different category. - It's a category, and our brand is the brand of the category. I mean, you'll hear people say, you know,

sometimes on the news, you'll see like another camera, I know it's another camera, and they say, the ring camera caught in them, like, that wasn't a ring camera. And I just smile because it's, I mean, it's like, what an amazing, I mean, it's like pinch me.

I'm like, it can curse you, like, the tinker in his basement, and, you know, created something that, like, will be like, it's a multi-generational. I mean, it's the, it is incredible. - So he's so talented.

How long did it actually take you to build, like, was that the first iteration of how many, how many iterations of that did you do? - I mean, like, I'd say hundreds of iterations overall, 'cause you're just kind of constantly doing it.

Like, and I'm keeping track. And it took us so 2014, like, we, so it was about three and a half years of... - Who's we, by the way, who was with you? - It was like me, and then, like, one or two kids

in the garage, basically, so, like, literally. And they both August and John, and they still work for ring today. So... - Who weren't these guys? - John was kind of a, he was went to Philadelphia

in a university and was like, kind of a, like, a designer. But, like, more, like, graphic designer, who I forced to become a mechanical engineer. I'm like, John, if you can draw it, why can't you just do that?

And he's like, okay, boss. Like, you know, we have, like, a lot of that. - And then August was just, like, I went to Berkeley. Went to Boulder, and was just a jack of all trades, kind of guy. And so between the three of us, we just kind of did it,

and then, you know, brought in a couple engineering people, and... - Were they your partners, or, like, equal partners, or are you working with for you, or... - No, I was the founder.

- And you were the founder, the only founder. - Only founder. - And so, did they get, like, did you just say, "Hey, if you would do this with me, I'll give you 10%. Or did you just pay them a salary?"

- Oh, they did, they got some equity, but it was more salary. It was like, I mean, I mean, it was, you know, it's like, you put yourself back in that position, I mean, I would have probably, if they said to me, "No salary, and I'll take 10% off of sure."

- Right. - That's time, but, like, they needed, they were, like, young guys that made money into live, and so I paid them, and, you know, I raised a little bit of money to do it, and...

- So how much did you initially raise?

- The first raise was under a million dollars.

“It was $500,000, I think it was the first one.”

- And so, how far along were you, before you even started to raise five, like, that... - Like, that was right out, like, that was an off the, out of the gates, like, kind of, yeah, I kind of raised that. - And so, when did you go on Shark Tank

and get rejected? - That was 2013. - Okay, so you started in 2010, you said 11? - So you started, like, a little, like, built, so I was, and I was in my garage trying to build other stuff.

was this thing called Edison Jr.,

which was, like, a lab to build ideas, basically.

- Really? - Yeah. - And so... - Like, kind of, like, an incubator? - Kind of like an incubator, yeah, of, like, our own ideas. And that's, like, I had these other things I was trying to build,

“that's what I couldn't hear at the doorbell.”

So, um, I had some advice. - It was wild. - So then, what, like, so how did it go from that, in a two years later, being on Shark Tank, not as a shark?

- So, no, I mean, it's, like, so non-linear that it's crazy. So, yeah, I, I look for a doorbell, can't find one. Build one. My wife says it makes her feel safer at home. Like, that's kind of cool, but still not in a ha moment.

We're building this, like, thing called Edison Jr., we're trying to put, we had hardware products mostly. And we were trying to put them on Kickstarter to get them funded, you know, for pre-sale. Kickstarter at the time decided to kick off anyone

that was a hardware product. So, we launched a new Kickstarter called Christy Street. And, which is the street that Edison's lab was on. And, um, I was going to a conference, this guy, Luke Lemur, who had this conference in Paris,

called Leweb, was a kind of a friend. And I said, Luke, you got to let me launch this at your conference. And he's like, "Oh, Jamie, this is not three." You know, he's, like, literally, like, Sergey Bryn was speaking at his conference.

And I'm like, he's like, "You know, Jamie, uh, it's like the biggest conference, the biggest tech conference in Europe. I'm like, "You got to do it, Luke." He's like, "Okay." So, we get on the phone and we're like, going through it

and he's like, his team and, like, what it's going to look like, the presentation. And I'm like, "We have to put a product up, but here's a bunch of ideas we have." The last one was the doorbell.

And we get through them all and I'm like, "What do you think will resonate with, like, the audience there?" And he's like, "Is the doorbell?" And I'm like, "Really? You think so?" And he's like, "It has to be the doorbell."

I'm like, "Okay." And so, it wasn't even, there was, like, kind of, like, a last minute almost out. I just put it on there. And the idea was to launch the site that people would sell hardware on and pre-sale and, like, a Kickstarter.

And we'd kind of, in essence, sell off this doorbell thing and get out of it quickly. And all people talked about when we launched, was the doorbell that became the thing. We ended up killing the site, started selling the doorbell. Then, we had to build the doorbell, which was a disaster and itself. And then, through that, I got on Shark Tank.

Well, how did you go from that to Shark Tank? Well, so, I was--

“They reproach you because I know that's what happened.”

So they did a little bit, so I went to lunch with another friend in L.A., like, a guy who's building a little business here and, like, a friend of a friend, like, "You guys should get together." And so I go to lunch with him and he's talking about his business and all this stuff. And meanwhile, I'm thinking of my head, and I'm really thinking this.

I'm like, "This is why, like, basically, you're not making it, Jamie."

It's like, you're out to lunch, like, with so much money, like, talking about, like, advice. And meanwhile, you're, like, you're fit, like, you're literally failing in your garage. Like, you're, like, you're basically, like, tanking your entire family and you're at lunch with this guy in Santa Monica, like, talking about some whatever business. And at the end of his, like, "What are you working on?" I'm like, "Oh, this doorbell."

And it was actually, again, kind of funny because, put yourself back in that moment. When someone said they're working on a doorbell, they'll go to your phone, you actually laughed. Like, people would literally, like, viscerly laugh and be like, "No, seriously, what are you working on?" Like, everyone's working on cool stuff, like, "Oh, I'm doing this. I'm reinventing this." Like, "I'm doing whatever." And I'm like, "Um, the doorbell, it goes to your phone."

They're like, "Oh, no, seriously, we're doing." And I'm like, "No, that's seriously what I'm doing. Like, sorry, like, you know, I'm an idiot." And so, they, uh, the guy's like, "Oh, that's really cool. The shark tanks looking for better products. Do you want me to introduce you to the, or here's the email of the producer?" They're like, "Clay new bill?"

It's one of the guys that work for Chloe. Okay. And he's like, you know, because they, they reached out, like, through, like, his connections, whatever. And they just said, like, "If you know, they're in good, send it over." So I literally send the email, like, "Hey, I'm Jamie Simmons off, you know, doorbell at doorbell.com.

“I start driving home from the lunch, and they call, and they're like, "You need to be on shark tank."”

And I'm like, "Holy shit, there was 30,000 people plus applied the year that I got on." So it was like crazy. That many? Yeah. I mean, shark tank was, like, at the time, like, 2012, 13, 14.

Shark tank was, like, the number one show on TV. Were they still taking that 1% in perpetuity? So they, when I, when that guy called me, they were. Okay. But they were just in the transition period of stopping that.

Okay. Which turned out to be Mark Cuban was the one who basically said, like, "We're not going to do that anymore." And I actually retroactively went and stopped. They gave it all back. Really?

And they've never taken a percentage of anyone's company.

I didn't know that really. Yeah, they went back and retroactively just nuked it all. Many, many years ago, when it was, I think the first or second, it was the second season of the show, they reached out to me. I had a shoe, like, a weighted shoe called No Dream Required, too.

Anyway, they played nukely, he played, we reached out to me, to be on the show, and a while I'm Canadian. So it became an issue with the visas, but then it was this 1% in perpetuity. And my partner was like, "There's no way that we're going to go on some show." Because the idea was, they were going to take that 1% regardless if you even got on the show.

No, he knows, right? Yeah, exactly. Like, exactly. Even if you make a deal, not make a deal, whatever, you have to give up. Like, they must have lost out on a lot of amazing, smart entrepreneurs.

Because no, not, people don't want to be doing that.

I mean, if you did that, and it was like, yeah, people didn't want to do it, and so. For you, if they took a 1% from New York, that was so desperate, I probably would have done it. Like, I would have taken money from Satan at that time, I mean, I was like, you know, I was desperate.

“Well, wait, so then, at that time when you went on, did you have you sold any?”

So yeah, we had, so the pre-cell started in 2012, so we December 2012, we announced it. And then I went on Shark Tank, we filmed September of 2013, it went on November of 2013. Okay. And we started shipping doorbots. It was called doorbots at the time, still like the actual product.

We started shipping them basically two weeks after we were on Shark Tank, is when we had them come in from Asia, and we started shipping them out. But before you go out on that show, did you actually pre-cell in it?

Yeah, I mean, pre-cell, like, like, a couple million dollars worth.

Okay, so then? No, it was like, it was like, it was like, oh, okay, so you already had that, okay. But it's still funny, because it's like, if you told me like, when we launched it, you're going to pre-cell a couple million dollars, oh my god, it's awesome. Right.

How much, like, blowing through millions of dollars in hardware is like, it's like, you're done. I mean, like, but we were spending them, like, the money engineering this, like, I mean, we were so negative on that product, it was crazy. Really?

How much were you negative at this point? I mean, we were, had to be at least, if we had shut it down, we had a lease out of a million bucks or two million dollars. Because we were ordering, like, supply, like ordering parts and ordering all this stuff. And like, I mean, it's just like you're just dead.

You're just, yeah, you're just, like, just spending the money. And I did, I used the money, like, the pre-cell money, I used the design the product. Right. But then they didn't have money to buy the product. So, like, part of why we, like, like, shipped right after Shark Tank is like, we got

all this money. The sales went up after Shark Tank, which then I could turn that, you know, three days of how long it takes for a credit card to settle. So, I'm sending that money to make a manufacturer as well. Wow.

So, you, because when you went on there, you can have about two million sales bubble

black. They altered you down because of two reasons I saw her, because first was the fact that the hardware was expensive. Yep. Right.

“And then what was the, what was expensive compared to a doorbell compared to a doorbell?”

Compared to a doorbell. Remember, put yourself back in that time, like, no one thinks about it like that now. Like, everyone's like, oh, it's a, like, a video doorbell camera, like a doorbell camera, like, like, there's a whole category. Yeah.

You created the category, and I still very much, like, have a good share in it. But, but the back then it was, like, a doorbell is $20, $15. No, it's like, yeah. Like, whatever. And it's like, yours is 200.

Like, there's no way something to spend $200 on a doorbell, and I'm like, well, it's not a doorbell. It's a doorbell. And so they, that was a big part of the mess. And then it was also, again, market size, like, how many doorbells sell a year?

Now, at that time, and this is where data can be so wrong for people like, when you follow data, it can be so wrong. And this is where opportunities are going to exist for entrepreneurs. As we get more lazy with AI, AI can only see the future based on the past. Like, it's literally how it works.

And real entrepreneurs are able to see the future completely in a, are foggantle different way.

So, you look at the data on doorbells, you're like, yeah, they just, like, $100 million

a year of doorbells, whatever it is. But when did someone buy a doorbell when it broke? Only time, somebody bought a doorbell when they built a new house. So built a new house or when it, when it literally broke. And a doorbell lasts for 30, 40 years, whatever, lasts on a house.

And so, of course, there was no market for doorbell. But what, what, what happens if you came up with something that people wanted on their front door? Now, what's the market size? It turns out the market size was multiple billions of dollars.

Wow. So, people just didn't see the market. Uber was another great example of where no one could, everyone said, like, well, taxi business is only this big. Uber can only be this percentage of it.

It's like, if it wasn't as if you changed how people travel, like, what is that market size?

“And I think that is, like, again, I think, especially with AI, we're going to look over”

a lot of businesses because you're going to type into AI, like, I'm thinking about doing a doorbell on it. It's going to be like, the maximum size of this business could be this. And you're like, oh, no, I'm not going to do it. That is so true.

But isn't that also not, I'll take a little small tangent about prompting, being really, really savvy and knowing how to prompt these things, or which one to use. And it keeps on being like, AI, what I'm doing on it now was very different than what it was happening to even two weeks ago. It iterates every minute of the day.

It is definitely getting better. It's very smarter. I think it's going to be very hard, though, to prompt it, to make that big of a leap. Yeah. I think it's going to be very hard to, like, and I think that's where, like, in entrepreneur

and inventor having, like, you know, having true passion about something mission purpose is like, I do think that's still going to exist in the future as the differentiator between success and failure. And also, in AI does not have grit or perseverance in all those other work ethic things that I believe you need with luck, right?

The combination. Okay, so let's go back to the chart. Yeah. But it's so interesting.

So then what was the other reason they gave you besides the hardware? So it was, yeah. So it was basically, like, you know, it was too expensive. How big is the market? Yeah.

I mean, those are, I guess, the two big. I think that was the two bigs. Well, they just couldn't see, like, they couldn't see this product being big enough. You know, so, like, they're like, you know, they're, like, of course someone will buy it. But it's not going to be big enough.

“It's, how well, nest is nest considered to be your big competition?”

I would say this point, no. I mean, like, I think, I mean, they're out there and they, they do the good job in their place. But no, they're not, like, not that big. They're not that big. They're not that big.

Okay.

So then, when the show actually aired, how much did your sales go out, like, 1,000 percent?

Yeah. So we were selling, we were, like, doing, like, a couple hundred grand a month. And so, and that was actually the scariest thing of going to Shark Tank is, so you go on, and they're, like, you're going to have this bump, and, like, no one knows exactly, like, each product sells differently.

And so we're, like, okay, so I'm theorying the bump is going to be, like, within the first few hours of the show. And that's it. Like, that's all we're going to get. Funny side note, we were on Shopify, or if it was on Shopify.

I call up Toby. It was the CEO of Shopify. Now, remember, you got to go back. He was a CEO of Shopify, Shopify was on that big of a company. Like, Shopify says, like, a hundred plus billion dollar company, so, like, calling up

the CEO of Shopify today would be insane. Right. Back then, it's, like, calling, like, the local person at the, you know, like, the local person who runs the restaurant down the street. Now, like, calling Toby, I'm like, hey, we're going to be on Shark Tank, whatever, two

weeks from now. He's like, okay, you're fine. And I'm like, no, you don't understand. If you go down, like, I'm going to drive to Canada and kill you. Right.

You know, basically. And we have this email exchange, which is very funny, which we still saved. Of him and I going back and forth, and he's, like, we've spent over a million dollars on servers. Now, like, Shopify now, I mean, it's $100 billion.

And I'm like, no, you don't understand, the track is so big, so it's, like, just very funny. And he's, like, two entrepreneurs that are, like, going back for it. So I was really worried I was going to go down, because I felt like it was going to be such a bump.

So we, you know, we go on Shark Tank, kind of wake up the next morning, basically, hung over, as, you know, when it showed. Yeah. And it was, like, a hundred and something thousand and sales. So I was excited to have 100,000 sales, but I'm like, that's it.

All right. Oh my god, I did all this work for a hundred and, but I, the hundred and 50,000 sales, whatever it was, then the next day, hundred and 50,000 sales, next day, like, it was like, literally, it just, and it then started going down slowly.

It never went back to, like, we were, like, maybe four or five thousand a day or something,

you know, going into Shark Tank. Yeah. It never went below, like, it was like, state at, like, 30,000 or something. Like, it was crazy. It just, like, stayed up.

So, would you say that it was because of the Shark Tank, the exposure of Shark Tank, that kind of catapulted the business then?

“I would say, I think there's, with any business, there's, like, a million, like, literally”

a million things to make it successful. Which is why it's hard to build this successful company, because it's never one thing. Right. Right. I would Shark Tank of the one things.

I think it was the one of the most impactful. I mean, it was like being on, it's like, people being in a garage going on a super bull ad. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, it was that kind of level. And Shark Tank at the time was, it was, like, the number one show in TV. So it was not only were you on Shark Tank, you were on, like, the number one show on TV. For 12 minutes, it was basically an ad on the whole business.

100% and it wasn't like you were, like, now you have social media to compete with, right? Yeah. People know what's even watching TV. Yeah. This was when, like, TV was TV.

You know, like, this was right at the end of that, actually. It was like, right there. I still like the show though, by the way. I think that's a great show. I love that show.

It's a great show. It's great for kids to watch. It, like, inspire people to both inspire the whole generation. Like, I love Shark Tank. Me too.

Who were the judges when you were on? It was, uh, so it was Robert? Yeah. Kevin, uh, Lori, Damon, and Mark. So, did any, when, when she, like, walked out of the tank, or whatever, what happened with

“it, did you make a front, like, did you become really good friends with any of them?”

Did they any of them reach out to you? None of that point. So, at that point, like, I mean, I walked out and, like, you know, kind of nothing happened. Yeah. And then I went right.

We aired, they saw immediately that, like, from our airing and the response that they got that, like, this was something unique. Is it when the highest rate, like, in terms of products that, like, kind of, didn't mean? It's pretty quickly.

Yeah. And then they, like, our sales, like, they ask you pretty, you know, they're, like, clay in the team that run at a pretty sharp, so they were like, how are your sales? Whatever.

And I'm like, oh, we've done, you know, we've done, like, a million dollars in the first,

whatever. Like, so we were blowing out every number they had pretty quickly. So, I think it was like, it was early that they realized they should stay in touch. I don't think they understood how big it would be. I didn't myself either.

Right. But it was like, starting to already, like, you know, become something we did, like, an update episode. I think a year later in the next season, and then it just kept going, kind of rolling from there.

So when did you raise money, like, the next round, so you just $500,000? I mean, I was raising, I mean, during Shark Tank, I was raising, I was trying to raise a million dollars when we went on Shark Tank. I had 300,000 circled. I went for 700,000 Shark Tank, I actually needed that money, and I didn't get it.

So I just kept, like, I mean, I was, I was fricking by hook and crook and whatever.

I mean, I was like, wow, just scraping at the barrel constantly to get money. Like, I mean, that was the entire, until we sold basically. Okay.

“So how much in, in all the money raised, how much did you raise all together?”

Like, 220 million or something.

That's a lot. It was not a little, yeah. Wow. So how much did you get diluted with all that? A lot.

Like, 80 percent, 40 percent, six. Yeah. Like, like, 80 percent. 80 percent. Yeah.

Wow. So, like, even though you sold it for 1.15 billion, yeah, it was just an insane amount of money. You, like, walked away with how much, like 100 million, too. Yeah. Like, I mean, that range, like, it's like, I, I, like, I made more money than I ever thought

I'd ever have ever. And like, so I look like, 18 year old Jamie is very proud of 49 year old Jamie, like, super proud. But people on the outside certainly have this, like, they think I made it.

Like, like, 100 billion somehow.

Like, not even, like, like, it's, like, like, like hundreds of billions. And so, like, it's so funny how that happens. It is funny. And I see it, like, a lot is like that, like, that's just, yeah, because you get diluted your investor.

“I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, um, we'll talk about that, but I think people don't know”

that. I mean, you know, I've had a few people on the show, we talked about how, or in Jack, people I know, let's say they sell their company for a billion or two billion. But they still, and that's for, like, the majority share. So they get to keep still, like, 20% of the company.

A lot of private equity stuff, yeah. A lot of private equity. But that's, it wasn't your situation at all. You still have a whole thing. Yeah.

And this is more like, I mean, and this is where there's, like, there's so many different ways to, like, skin the cat kind of like, to build a business. And there's people that are, like, that build it profitably day one. And they just keep rolling, and they own 100%. Like, I have friends that own 100% of some of these big businesses, and they'll sell

for 300 million, no one even knows that they sold. And yet, they made way more money than a lot of entrepreneurs that you know. And so, yeah, I think like the, the outcome size is different than, like, what people sort of take and how that is. Right.

You know, for me, it's like, my personality was to go big quickly and want to build something. I wanted to, like, hit the cover off the ball. Yeah. And to do that, you got to take a lot of money, go fast, like, you know,

we spent it marketing, like, we built the brand. Now, it worked. I mean, it's like, oh, like, yeah. Ring is, I mean, over a hundred million devices out in the world today. Super profitable, Amazon.

A hundred million people use the ring. A hundred million devices in the market, you know, over. And is it still growing exponentially? Very, very fast. So, because also you have a subscription model.

So, you're just caught into selling it and making money. So, it was a root, the, like, we went from three million, like, so the year I was on Shark Tank was, like, you know, so like, three million, so we kind of hit that. Then 30 million, 170, 480, and then we sold to Amazon and sort of hit billions after that.

People look at those numbers and they're like, that's amazing.

“It's like, actually, no, it's terrible because the amount of cash you need to grow a”

business that has a physical product. So, the business itself was just incinerating cash as a, because of the growth. The actual, like, economics on a per customer basis were phenomenal. So, the fundamentals of the business were actually very strong. The entire company collectively, because we're trying to build this stuff.

It's very complex. Yeah. Yeah. So, the problem was, it was a really scary business to build because it was, like, it was incinerating cash.

The good thing was the, on a per customer basis, because the subscription, because of how we built it, like, actually, it was a very healthy, like, the economics for healthy as long as we got to scale.

So, we knew if we got to, and we always said, like, it was by two, two and a half billion

in sales is where we'll get profitable, and that was almost right on the numbers. Like, that was kind of right where we had to be. So, how much was your customer acquisition per, how much is it per person? It's, you know, it's hard, because when you're building a brand, this is always because people would ask you, like, what's your customer acquisition cost?

Yeah. What do you use to calculate that? We're building, you know, if I stop all my advertising today, our, our ring sales is still going to happen for the next bite, one, two, three, four, five years. Yes.

So, then what happens to your acquisition cost? So, it's like, it's, when you're starting to do, like, top them funnel, like, you know, you search your TV and things like that. That's the promise people attribute, they'll be like, well, you spend this month, a million on TV, what, you know, and you've sold, whatever, you know, you sold 10,000 units.

So, that means that, you know, you're, like, a thousand dollars, whatever, you know, per person. You're like, no, that's not like, if you stop marketing, we're still going to sell. So, it is very, very hard to get these, these customer acquisition cost is only working to, like, very clean, directing consumer programmatic, you know, you, you have a add-on meta on Instagram, on Facebook, it converts or it doesn't convert, like, that's kind

of it. Right. It's the performance marketing. It's super-performing marketing, but when you're trying to build a brand, it's different. It's different, and it's like, when do you, this is the problem, it's like, when do

you stop? How much, you know, and then you have competition coming in and you, like, you know, it's cheaper to build the brand when it's, when things are more infantile when it's early.

It was subscription. So, door bot wasn't when we launched that, we, we actually, we knew we wanted to build the subscription, we just, like, we just didn't have it. Right. And then ring, we launched ring, which was 2014, October 2014, we announced that, like, it's

going to be the subscription. And so, like, that was, like, when we announced, like, the real, like, this one was, like, showed what the thing could really do. So, then, when did, like, so, did me the story with Amazon, like, who came to you, how did the whole Amazon, this is the, this is the, the problem with being an entrepreneur

into us, is it just, like, it's such a long game. So, we started talking to Amazon when I was door bot, and just, I mean, just talking to them, like, they had Alexa, like, we were just, like, I mean, just, like, started, like, you know, like, having conversations with their device team, and they had a little venture capital arm off of Alexa.

So, started, and then I literally flew up, because it was Amazon, when we were launching ring, and a month before we, we put ring on the market, I wanted to preview that with Amazon. So, I sat with Nick Komoro, who's now, like, one of the heads of Corp Dev, but it was, like, more junior at that time, and again, this is a good lesson.

“He was way more junior than, like, everyone always thinks you have to meet with, like, Jeff”

Bezos, or, whatever, and here's, like, me and this guy who was kind of similar peer group in terms of, like, he was early in his career, too, but he needed to make it, and he has. And I sat with him and showed him ring, and we, the thing is, like, this is so cool. I'm going to bring it to this person.

This person, because, again, Nick wanted to also, like, get shit out there, make it. It's 2014, and three years later, as when Nick and I sat down, basically, and he said, "Okay, like, we want to buy this." I love it. I love it.

You said that. That is such a important point, right? Because people are very myopic. They think either you're meeting at the top person, or it's like, you're out. Exactly.

You have to be so much more strategic, right? Because everybody will, that person that you met with, or in any business, or company, like, their trajectory is, they can be the, they can be running the whole thing. This happened to me many times with people I worked with, right?

“Which means you should be nice to everyone.”

You should be, you should connect with everyone. No one's too small to, to, you know, connect with, because, look what happened to you. And this, by the way, this has happened, this is what usually happens. In my experience, whenever I thought the other way, and I thought, oh, I'm happy with the head person.

I mean, nothing ever happens. Well, nothing ever happened.

That's always, I mean, like, even now, like, I run ring, and someone wants to do something

with ring, and they, like, I want to meet with you, and I'm like, it's like, I'm the last person that's going to actually work on that. Like, find, it is fine, it's so much worse, whatever, it's like, find the person who needs to make it. Like, I don't now need to make it work, like, your product, like, I don't need to make

it work with ring. 100%. But like, there's a person at ring who's new in their career who, if they could figure out and make something really work, will make their career, and find, like, that person in any place.

Yeah. And, and by the, it's also like, play the lung, like, for the, be nice to people because it's just better than being a jerk, like, that's, like, that's just simple. Yeah. But it is, like, find those people, and then, like, grow with them and take a long

approach at this. And I, and I do think with TikTok in our 15 second videos, like, we just keep looking at shorter and shorter term thinking.

“I think, because we have zero attention span, and then we are, like, we are also”

completely, we're not, we're not realistic in how things actually work in the real life. Like, a lot of the people I deal with that, I was nice to the interned and the coordinators of those of the people who are running the companies now, and the people that, you know, what you thought that were like, such whatever, they retire, they left, they're not

even there anymore. They could, and they could care less to your point. And it is just to take care less. Take the lung in. Like, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a marathon for most.

And I think the problem is, of course, there's going to be some, you know, 20 year old that

launches something and in two weeks sells it for a billion dollars. Right. It's lottery tickets. Someone's going to scratch off. They're going to buy one lottery ticket in their whole life.

They're scratch off and win the big pot. Yes. That happens, but it's not likely to happen to you. It's not likely to happen to you. And a lot of people I know, unless it's nepotism, right, were the dad or the family

has friends with the CEO and they acquire your business or whatever, then they get lucky. But for the average person who's going on grit and hard work and, like, all the persistence, you got to, like, play the long game and you got to be super, super strategic and be, like, be nice to everyone, meet with everyone, like, make everyone, like, everyone, friends. Like, no, a lot of the probably top VCs in the country now.

Yep. A lot of them I know because I knew them when they were, like, they were assistants,

or whatever, at VC firms and they grew, like, it's incredible the people that I know that,

like, we're just so early in these things. And again, it's like, it also, it's like, it's just such a better world to be, like, just nice to people and talk to people and, like, who gives a shit who someone is, like, that's a high discipline, I totally agree with you. But when you are struggling and when you're an entrepreneur and you feel like you have, like, mouths to feed, you can think

very, very, very focused on, I need that person, I need that person, and only that person.

make your, make your dreams come true.

Typically not. I mean, there's always, like, some weird cases again where someone heard something,

but like, yeah, I mean, most of the time, and again, most of us can take longer. Like, it's not, like, someone's going to meet you and just, like, hand over a check for 100 million, and you're going to, you know, make it. Let me share my daily routine game changer with you. It's the momentous three. I've been using their protein, their creatine, and omega-3 combo for months now,

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“So then tell us about the case, so you meet this guy, what was his role at Amazon at the time?”

I mean, Nick was in Corp Dev, but he certainly wasn't like, he wasn't buying a billion-dollar company.

Right, he was like a middle management person. He was like middle-earlier career. Yeah, he was like, yeah, I mean, he wasn't like, nobody, I mean, he was like, but he was like, but he was certainly wasn't like dating the way, wasn't Jeff Bezos or like the heads. And so he liked your company. Like, how did it, how did it go from day one to year three when they bought your company? Yes, and Nick was like, this is super cool. Like, you know, like, let's do this. We can try to get like, you know,

help you here. Like, because Nick, oh, again, the funny thing is the higher you get, the less actual work and you do. And so Nick was at that level where the people he knew his peers, like, the person over at Ecommerce in Amazon was someone who's actually doing stuff. Yeah. The person in the device group was doing stuff. So it was like, it was like the people that were actually at that level that layer that were, so we got into like, oh, you know, we then quickly found out that Amazon was going to launch. They hadn't at the time a screen device.

Well, guess what you want to put on a screen camera. So now it's like, hey, we want to sign as big NDA with you, because we want to have you as a early partner on this and we're not going to work on it with us. And so we helped like, kind of build the whole video thing with them of how it would work on a screen before they bought you. It'd be for it. Oh, yeah, yeah, way before. Yeah. So did they just pay you like a consulting fee for them as like, like, like, they were more just it was a channel that we would, you know, kind of use. Okay.

“Use a partnership. A partnership. And so, but that's how we started to meet them and like, and so just you know,”

but it took, it was like three years of courting. And I'd say not even with like, it wasn't like we're like,

I think you're always when you're small like that. You're like, oh, I'd be creative Amazon bought.

I mean, it's like, you know, it's sure. But it was really just like, let's just keep kind of just doing what's right. I mean, just kept working on stuff. And then all of a sudden it came to this point where they're like, we should, you know, did you have anybody else who wanted to buy you guys? No, which is kind of interesting. You know, I didn't want to sell the company. So I was not, I do think a lot of times the reason companies have a lot of interest is because they're putting out sort of the scent, you know,

they're putting like the fair mones of sale out there. And they're trying to sort of bait people. Like, I really didn't want to sell the company. And I told Amazon many times that from working with them. And it was true that it was the only company I would sell to because I like Jeff was still leading it as the founder. And you could feel that like founder energy there. Yeah. And that they really backed the companies they bought. And I just was not done with ring. I mean, as you can see, I've

still there eight years later. So like I certainly wasn't done with ring. But I really wasn't like done with it. Like I really wanted to keep building it. So I didn't want to sell it. And so I think we didn't get other, because when we sold a bunch of people came out of the woodwork and said, I wish we had known you were for sale. Like who? I mean, like just a bunch, you know, like big companies. Like big companies. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, like large ones. So but like, you know, but so. It's been told me before you.

I know why I know how to like not get myself into a trouble. I get like a, I get in just enough trouble to like go through life with like with the name of the company start with. Like, you know, like the ones that are big. And so, but like, you know, they called you. They're like, we didn't know your for sale. And it was like, partly, we weren't. And the other part is like, I wouldn't have sold to them. Because I, I know how they are with companies. And I wasn't trying to sell. I wasn't trying to sell the

company. I was trying to build still this mission and making a bird safer. And I was like, very missionary with it. And I also felt to the team that I owed them. Because I said to the team,

“the most important thing we're doing is making a bird safer. That's what we're focused on.”

And when we sold the Amazon, like, the thing that Jeff said is like, you just keep doing this in,

we sold. Yeah. Oh, like, do you see him all the time? You guys like golfing buddies? Jeff doesn't golf. But I mean, we're, we're, do you work out there? I was definitely like, I would

“consider him a friend. I mean, yeah, I think, I think, I hope he considers, I think he considers me a friend.”

I mean, he's, you know, you don't want to say the rich person while you want to, like, say, like, no, no, no, but like, when did he, when did he kind of enter the picture? So there, they, at that point, they had realized that Jeff loves entrepreneur so much that if they got Jeff into early, that he would, like, it was like hard to, like, he would basically just sort of a little bit. And then, and then the problem was then they'd have to be like, well, that's not a price we can do. Like, it's sort of

would become like crazy, because Jeff just loves entrepreneurs. Jeff loves inventors and entrepreneurs. Really? He loves people that build stuff. Like, Jeff truly is like just like loves to be around. What's going to now contact Jeff right now with their idea? I mean, if you can get to him, he loves to, he would talk to anyone forever about interesting things. I love that. He loves he's like a sponge of just wanting to understand that he's curious. He's like a very curious person.

Really? Yeah. So then when, so at what point did they, did they get you to meet him? So it was basically right after we signed the deal that finally kind of like, I met him, but not like, you know, like, met him like, like, this is, you know, like, very like, right, not like met met. And then it was after that that we started to kind of like actually spend some time together and got to know each other. So so then when before you got 1.15, what was the

initial amount that they offered you? Less. Yes. So it was just funny because so they offered me,

but thought that much less. Like more than 700 million? Yeah, more than that. But so then we

had to get, the problem was, and this is like my put my board in a terrible position, which is, my board is like, we, you know, as a fiduciary, because we had so many investors and there's people are litigious. And so like, I don't care if someone put a dollar. And like, if you sell, it's like, okay, why do you sell for that price? Like, you have this company. Yeah. Some people could, people could have said the company was worth 100 billion, do you say it's worth 500, whatever. It's like,

no, you're right. Like, I agree. The company, I'm one hand, it's losing money. It could have been worth zero dollars. The other hand side is it could be worth, look at the growth rate. It could be worth 10 billion. And so as a board, you can, so you had, so we brought in JP Morgan. Okay. No wine and Job and JP Morgan as an investment bank. And it was hard because it was like, no, it was like,

well, basically we'll go out and we'll get other offers. Like that's how you do it. And I'm like, well, I'm not selling anyone else. And it's like, no, it's like, oh, you know, it's like, that's why I asked you.

There was not even like, you didn't even go out with it. Well, 'cause I said, and this was like, again, I, and probably like, I was probably too crazy about this mission and like, I, I, I, I, looking back, like, it, it probably hurt us.

I was like, so mission, mission focus and driven that it certainly made us, we made mistakes. I probably would have been better, but I'm also not a, I'm not a business person.

“So like, it's like, I think that's just, is who I am.”

I'm just like a, like, so I said to know like, we're not selling anyone else, get the most you can, and then we'll sell the Amazon. - Are you serious? - Yeah. - So wait, you're not a business person,

but you are an inventor, a founder. So who was the day today, every? Like, were you, did you want to be the CEO of the company? So I think anyone can run a business if they recognize what they're good at.

So like, I don't think running a business takes a specific trait other than knowing the things that you don't do. - Yep. - And so for me, like, a super missionary, like, by the way, like, what a, like, leadership,

every one of the company knew what they were working on, like, why to work there, why to be there, like, that's a pretty big one, like, that's the agency. Track people, that's pretty huge. But like, day to day stuff, like, I didn't do anything.

I never, I've never had in the history of the company.

I've never had a set meeting with my, like, direct team ever. - So who does that for you? - So it's autonomous. So like, we have people that run their areas. They're all like CEOs.

I look at, like, everyone is like a CEO of their area. And you just kind of, like, run your own areas. So, like, marketing's run by marketing. And they, like, kind of, are CEOs of that.

“Now, you have to make sure they work together.”

And so, and my job, I kind of, like, come in and go out to fight fires, fix things. I drive a lot of the product and invention side of things. But, like, day to day, I've never been, like, the day to day. Trying to run the company.

I think that's a problem. It's a lot of people who start things. Feel like they have to buy the book, be like a CEO. - Right. - They have to have, like, the weekly meeting.

And they do this. All the stuff, and it's like, it's just not who they are. - Yeah. - And because of that, it, like, stops them from scaling and getting big.

'Cause they're trying to fight to, like, be this CEO. Like, I, in fact, I call myself the chief inventor. We didn't have a CEO. That's great, 'cause I know that a lot of times what companies do, right?

Like, they have the person who's the founder until they get to a certain place, like,

50 million, 20, whatever.

And then, like, the real CEO comes in to scale the business, right? - And, you know, that, anything, it can work. I mean, you saw it with Eric Schmidt with Google. Like, yeah, the Google guys, the founders were, like,

who's like, more of, like, a seasoned, you know, person. I think that was actually more luck than anything else, because if you, like, if you look at 100 of those examples, they're probably one of the few that actually worked. - Right.

- Because usually when you bring in that CEO, they destroy-- - The whole company. - The whole company. - Exactly.

- And so, I say--

“- That's what you said, like, first of all,”

what you just said was so smart, was so, so true. And I've seen this a million times. Because you as a CEO, you're bringing the vision, you're bringing the passion, and you're leading the ship, right? So, people, to build a really great team of people,

they have to really look up to the person with a mission-driven, reason why they're working so hard, and have a corporate culture. Like, you're setting the corporate culture, right? - Right, I said the culture, I said the--

And also, I'm super driven, I wanted to win. - Yes. - So, you're setting all these macro big things, but I wasn't doing, like, a weekly team meeting over, whatever, I didn't even know--

I didn't even know how people run a business. Like, I couldn't even tell you, like, I just don't know how it works. But I know how to build a business, I know how to, like, win a business,

then how to win, and, again, I always look at the inputs.

Like, to me, the business is like the output side. - Right. - The inputs are like, do we have the right product? Are we fixing customers' needs? Like, if you fix, if you--

I was saying, if we make neighbors safer, if someone believes that ring, when they walk into Best Buy or Home Depot or whatever, if you see ring on a package, like, just that name, and you're like, I know whatever's in there's gonna

make my neighborhood safer, and make my home safer, my family safer, you're gonna buy it. - 100%. - And now you're gonna reward me with that purchase. So, like, all I have to focus on is making sure

that you know that.

“Everything else will fix itself, like, how that box got there?”

Like, someone can figure that out, like, that's so true. - Then why did you come-- Like, so you were there for all those years. So when they bought you, why did you stay? Was that part of the deal?

Like, okay, let's kind of explain. Like, people say, like, part of the deal meaning, like, that they paid to keep, like, that, like, I was there because they were paying me. It's like, the opposite, like, part of the deal

was like, I get this thing keep running. It's like, I told them, like, I'm staying. - Right, right. - But you're gonna salary on top of them.

- Yeah, but like, I mean, yeah. Yeah, no, it's been good. - No, but when I was saying, but you left. And then why did you come back? - So I stayed, so we sold in 2018, I stayed for five years.

And I took it from literally, like, the year before I sold,

so 2017, we did $480 million, year before that, 170.

We go to Amazon, and we grow, like, a freaking weed. I mean, we just, I crushed it. And I was like, how much did you sell? - It was crazy. Like, it just grew.

- You need to tell me that. - He grew and grew and grew, I mean, billions. And so, and we, and I got a profitable. So in the 23 profitability, crazy growth, incredible invention, you know,

every, like, whatever you wanna look at, like, whether it's reviews, sea set scores, whatever the thing's like, everything was like, kinda 10 out of 10, and I was just toast. Like, my brain was much, like, I had just not,

like, it's funny, it's people say, like, when you sold, like, where'd you go? What'd you do? And I'm like, I went to work, like, I was like, this is great, 'cause I have a big balance sheet

to work off of, like, we're gonna go faster and harder. So for five years, I was, like, I went to, like, full grit grind mode. - Like, what was your schedule, like, give me an example?

- I mean, it was, I, it was never stopped.

Just, like, - What time did you start working the morning? - I'm not like, like, I'm not like, like, I just kinda start, I just kinda go, I'm like, never stopped. - Yeah, it's like, it's like, it's more like,

it's like, constant than it is, like, actual, like. - Did you go to the office, or did you do it from home? - Office traveling, I mean, a lot of travel. A lot of, like, in person is big for me. - Really, like, in person meeting to me. - In person meeting,

obviously COVID was a weird one, but besides that, it's like, you know, retailers, and like, I think, you gotta just be out there. And, you know, I'm like the sham wow guy, you know, I'm like Billy Mays, you know, like,

I'm like an infomercial, so, like, get your water, look at your shirt. - Yeah, you know, I mean, like, where ring stuff, I mean, like, it's like, but that's who I am. Like, I'm, so I go there.

- For amazing.

“- And that energy, and that's what we, you know,”

that's how we get, you know, go to a retailer and say, like, this is what we're launching, and this is why we're excited about it. And this is how it's gonna make neighbors safer, people safer, and, you know, and--

- You're like the promotion guy. - I'm a promoter. - The infomercialist, for sure. - For sure. - We bring the enthusiasm, which is also so important.

- But that also, it also, like, sucks your energy. Like, that's like, it kills you. Like, I mean, like, I don't care how you're flying. I don't care what you're doing. Like, it is like, you're grinding.

And so I just got to this point where I felt like I delivered to Amazon way more than they expected. It's, I think it's probably the best purchase they've ever done from a company side. - Totally.

- And so I, like, I just was burnt out. I'm like, I need to just do something else. Like, I need to read, like, I just and my brain needs to reset. And so I worked with them and we transitioned out. And so I left the end, or like, middle with 23.

And then I was pretty quickly miserable. - So you were, as you can see, 'cause it's not that, like, you went back to that point. - I look like you were to have you. - So what made you go back so quick?

- A couple things. One is, I mean, I was, it is, like, my baby. Like, I mean, I wear the ring shirt, 'cause it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, I have one son,

and I have like this one, so I have like two kids.

- So I, I do love it. I love what it does.

I love the stories of it.

I'm super attached to it.

“Like, people know my face, they come up to me,”

they're like, ring to this for my family, ring to this for me, ring, stop this thing, like, I, I love all of that. And feed on that. And then with AI, I could see really what ring could do. And it was the, the fires and the palaces that was like,

the breaking point for me of, of, we like, there's so much more we can do. - Like, what? Tell me. - So I was in, I mean, like, my house is in the palaces, so it was like, you know, like, it was on fire.

And so we put it out, and, um, sorry. - Yeah, I was just, I mean, like, yeah, if you've been up there, it's like, it's just such a terrible thing. And so we had over 10,000 cameras in that area. And I was just thinking, like, this thing's jumping

and whatever, no one knows where it is. And like, that's part of the problem. And like, firemen are like being dispatched to the wrong places and I'm like, shit, like, we could, like, we know where the fire is to the cameras.

Like, we could build something to do this. And so that was like one of the things that I was like, and like, 'cause AI, like, before AI, you could not, would you put, like, you can't just dump 10,000 cameras into a, anything, it wouldn't help, it would like,

who cares, like, with AI, you can, like, look for smoke, fire, embers, like, whatever. And with people's permission, of course, like, you know. So now we have this in called fire watch, which we launched off of this.

And so if, if a big fire event happens, when they do, we actually do it all the time. We send out an alert to people in that area.

And we say, would you like to basically let your camera be used

for the next 24 hours to help watch duty, which is the app that basically builds the fire map for all the command centers and the police and fire to help them. And so we then look through AI when the fire is happening.

And we try to figure out where it's jumping to, to try to build a more real time fire map to help the resources go and fight it faster. - That was, wow. And so that was like, that was, but that was like,

that's the product and that's kind of the thing, but that was like the breaking point of like, me going to Amazon and being like, I have to come back and do this. Like this is just like, we need like,

this network of that we've built this mission. We've built this base of neighbors, which is what we call our customers. Like we need to think with AI, we can do so much more. - So you went back to this and I want to come back.

- Yeah. - And they were super cool. They were like, that's great, like, okay. Like, we'll have you back, I was like, sweet. - Well, did you do anyone take over your job when you last?

- Yeah, someone took over you. So they kick 'em over what happened to that person. - They decided they wanted to go to something else, yeah. - Oh, so it kind of was like, it worked out, just fine.

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Go to monobitality.com and use code Jennifer20 for discount, that's monobitality.com. M-A-N-N-A vitality.com, a news code, Jennifer20. - With all the privacy issues,

“why are people always giving you such a problem with privacy?”

- I mean, I mean a couple of things. I think whenever you're doing something that matters. - Yeah. - And it's almost funny. I would say even, whenever you're doing something matters,

and that's good for people, you always get pushed back.

Like there's, it's just funny, but it's almost like if you do something that's big and impactful and no one pushes back, you're probably not doing something big and impactful. Like it's crazy as that sounds, it's like what I've learned.

- It's so true. - So we launched this thing and we launched Dog Search Party. So we launched Search Party for Dogs. It's got a similar idea where we have right now we have in the ring app, in neighbors, our ring app.

We have people post almost a million lost dogs a year get posted in the app. Already from previous, like it's lost dogs or actually a huge thing all the time. And so I'm like, wow, with AI,

we can take that dog, that picture, and look for that dog in the neighborhood, and when we find it, tell you. So we have now, we built the technology, and we built it with privacy.

it'll say, Jamie, this dog, this picture that was posted, looks like this dog in front of your house, do you want to contact your neighbor? If you don't contact your neighbor, I mean, you're not a good person,

but no one knows that you didn't do it. - Right. - It's like literally no different than a dog now walking in your backyard. We like, oh, that's a weird thing,

that's like a dog, and I look at the tag, and I see the number on it, and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna call it, and I throw the dog out of the yard. Like that would be the same thing,

like no one knows you did that, but like WTF. - Yeah. - And so we launched this thing, literally every day we were reuniting the number one family per day with their dog,

using it today, already, it's actually happening. We did a Super Bowl commercial on it, and the people when, you know, I mean, it was like a group of people

when sort of, like,

- Well, I never understood this.

- Well, 'cause it's like this could be for surveillance, this could be to track this, this could be to track that,

“and it's like, I think people just, you know,”

and I get it, like they just can't, they imagine this like utopian world, and they get like, they just get freaked out, like super quickly versus being like, okay, how does this thing work?

And when you look at how it works, you're like, oh, like, like, doesn't take anyone's privacy. Like, it's actually you're clicking to say, I wanna call my neighbor, like you're, but the fire thing, you're clicking to say,

like, I wanna help in the fire. So we've made everything, like, I think what it is that people have gotten so polarized, it's like you either have, like, you have no privacy and these things happen,

or you have your privacy and nothing can happen. There's like no, like, we can have a middle ground that, like, I can help my neighborhood when I want to, and when I don't want to, like, I can control it, like no one can imagine

that that world can exist. It's like sort of middle world. - Let the world are living in general, every thing I think it's all right. - Everything's so polarized, like,

super one side of the other, like,

the reality is like, the middle is where everything should be.

- The middle is where everything should be, but that's everything in life. But then how about, like, this event, Savannah gun three thing with her mother?

“Remember, 'cause you, well, how was that affecting rain?”

- In fact, there's a couple of ways, I mean, one is, you know, first of all, like, it's probably the saddest thing I've ever seen. - I mean, I like, I can't. - And there's still no reason.

- I mean, at this point, I hope I'm wrong, but it feels like there's just, I mean, I don't, it doesn't feel like there's enough evidence, like they just don't have. - But on the ring, they saw the guy at the front,

at the front of the door. - Yeah, so that's your nest. - Well, it was a nest, okay, there you go, see? - But see, that's not, I know, that's it. - Everyone assumes it was ring.

- All right, yeah, the thing that was, but the thing that was really, you know, in most of these things, like this, when they happened, like some big event in the area that happens like this, usually you have a lot of footage now,

like you have a lot of cameras. In this particular area of Tucson, the homes are in bigger lots. There's a lot of like brush and stuff in front of them, and so it just turned out that like the streets there

from the homes like are just not covered by cameras. And so whatever happened there, just was not like just no one had, you know, sort of no one caught it because in a neighborhood in Los Angeles or something happened, like you'd probably have 100 people submit videos

of cars coming in, cars going out, things whatever, you know. - But if it was, and then not to throw anyone under the bus, nest or whoever, but if it was a ring camera, would it have been the picture clearer, would it have shown more angles,

“could have had done more stuff to kind of maybe catch the person?”

- I mean, they were masked. I think what you really needed on this one was not just that you needed to have some idea of where they came from, where they were going, like a little bit more of that sort of part,

because they were somewhat professional, it seems, in what they were doing, but I think if you had video of like the car, where it went, then you could sort of like, then you can usually break from it,

like try to go farther, whereas like they don't even know what car they were in, or as far as I know, like I don't, you know, I'm just like from the public side. - And we don't even have to say them, but like in general, like, what is the ring so far?

What is some of the attributes that, or things that the ring has that other competitive people don't? - You know, it's funny, I mean, and they are cameras to the price point, I think we deliver the best camera quality,

so it's really like I have one. I mean, not to say that makes sense. - No, it's the same, but it's not like, it feels like you have the best cameras, and like the best camera is like a little bit,

because like if you spent $100,000 on a camera, like there are like super extreme cameras that are available, of course, but they're also at a price. And so I think what we've been able to

is democratize home security and bring it to a price point that's affordable

and give you an incredible value for that.

So I think like our cameras are, I do think they're the best at every price point, and then we've created things like the neighbors and community requests, and like all these like things around it that then make the experience so it has more impact.

So like in the brown shooting, for example, the police were able to send an alert to all the rain customers asking for footage very quickly. - Yeah. - And then they really get that back and use that,

and that's kind of how they bred from their way into that was like,

and I'm a video, okay, and then we get all, but by the way, to the middle, submitted with people that all gave their permission at that time, so like they got an alert, and if they said no, they were anonymous,

if they said yes, then they were able to submit that. - Wow, okay, in terms, I didn't even ask you any of these questions yet, but in terms of like advice, right, or mentor, do you have a mentor?

Have you ever do have one that you speak to?

“- I think they have like, I'd say it different times,”

I think it's different people, because they give different needs, but I certainly, there's lots of people that I talk to constantly about things and just like mentors and sort of just like people

that you can, it takes a village, I mean, for sure. - Is there, is there like one piece of advice that you've gotten over these years that really kind of sticks out? - I don't think there is like a single, I mean, I think the biggest piece of advice I've ever gotten,

I think is actually that it's like, don't give advice, is that we're all unique, like we're all a fingerprint, our businesses are all unique, like the time, people ask me like, oh, I'm building this, this product,

like what should I do that ring did that made it successful?

And the reality is like, the world's shifted,

you know, like to start a business, to start ring today would be different starting ring 15 years ago. It's like, I mean, there wasn't TikTok when I started. There wasn't so it's like, so I think it's,

but history doesn't repeat itself, it does rhyme. And so I think like when you realize that it rhymes, then it's like listen to people and try to like extract understanding of like the rhyming and then how does that sort of relate to you?

So it's a me, it's more about like listening and understanding how things relate to your situation, not taking advice because when people want to give advice, it's, again, it's also coming from you, it's even coming from a different time.

100% and they're experienced with it. That's a great line. History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes. - Yeah. - Have you haven't system told me that,

the founder of Instagram? - I love that. - And I did love it. I don't even know if it's his line, but it's like when he said it, I was like,

'cause I love it because people say history repeats itself and it actually, it sort of does, but it doesn't repeat itself. It repeats the same sort of things happen because he thinks themes, the exactly,

which is like the rhyming. So I do, yeah. - I love that, so I gotta circle back to the shark tank, because you didn't tell me how you ended up as a shark. So then you become very successful,

and then they call you and say, 'Hey, you wanna be a shark, because you were the biggest reject that we made a mistake on.

- When I sold it to Amazon for the sort of the billion,

for that, like the billion is like a billion dollars, which was like, it was the largest by far of a shark tank company at that point that it sold. - For sure. - And so it's just such a big headline,

and they said, "Do you wanna come on and be a shark?" And it was like, I mean, talk about like, to me, I looked at going on shark tank as, like an amateur athlete going to the Olympics. To me, like being on shark tank as a, as a,

like a person, like as a, as a, on short. That was like going on to the Olympics. And then I like Michael Phelps that, like you know, like I won like every mouse. - Yes.

- And then I like Michael Jordan it, like I went to the pros. Like to be on shark tank as a shark was like insane. Like it was like literally like you could not even set your goal that high, it was crazy.

So that was a pretty cool thing. - How many times were you a shark? - This is a couple. I mean, it turns out it's a lot of work. I mean, these people are real that are on it.

“You have to like invest in their companies.”

I don't have a back office or anything. - No, but a lot of the people, you know, not to say in the names, but don't do any investment. Like Mark Cuban actually does a lot of, he puts my name on it.

- Mark does a lot, Lori is like super busy. - Lori does a lot of Mark does a lot. Mark does the most. - Yeah. - But there's a couple people.

- They're all great though, like they've all become like, but there's a couple of people who don't do anything. - It's, but it's just really hard. Like I mean, it's like each one is like a real business that like matters that family.

And so like I realized like I invested in one and I like, - You did? - Yeah, it's one called "Moink." M.O.I.N.K. Moo Oink. And we do a direct consumer meet, like sort of packages of meats

from ethically farmed from all these small farmers. It's out in Missouri. Wonderful woman runs it. It was in the cramsy. And it's done really well.

It went from doing 750,000 a year to 20 million now.

- Really? - Profitable. - How much money did you give her? - Like give her like a little over 700,000 in the end. - Really?

- And I got it back, got it, she'd paid it all back. - Really? - That was just crazy. And I, to this is my personality why I can't invest in companies.

It's like I now own a farm in that town. I've worked on rebuilding the town. I own the bar in the town, the coffee shop. I've done the sidewalks of streets, like friends of the people. We put a barbecue contest on every year there.

Like I love it. - Really? I love the house. - The bell Missouri. - That's amazing.

“So then, okay, so that's what you mean by a lot of work.”

Because you, it kind of person you are. - Yes. - You will really invest. - It's not investor. - Right, like you really want to, you're like a doer.

- Yeah, and I can't like have my, yeah, like I have to have my hands into this thing. - Yeah. - And I have no interest in like, like investing such a boring thing to me

in terms of like being passive. - It's just making money. Like it's like just like a passive investor is literally, you're just making money.

and it's cool and whatever. It's just for me. - Not for you. - Yeah, no.

“- What was another company that you actually invested in?”

- Shark Tank is the only one I did. - That's the only one. - Today like in real life, are you an investor now? - Yeah, my investor. Another one called Clayton Farms,

which we're just building now. - Like farming stuff, huh? - So I like food, like food state, like the whole idea like we need to eat better and wholesome. So Clayton Farms is the only, right now we have one

in Ames Iowa, it's the only quick serve restaurant where we grow the lettuce and the food onsite. So literally like it's a drive-thru salad place. It's like a sweet greens. - Oh.

- But where it's actually grown in the building. And so your salad is like 45 minutes old. - Stop it. - World's fresh a salad. Let me have a location opening up in San Francisco

at a couple of months. - That sounds amazing. - It's amazing. - It's amazing. - It's epic.

- Where'd you find it? - So Clayton pinged me after I was on Guy Razz's podcast and said he wanted to build the John deer of indoor farming. And he was in Iowa and because I have a place in Missouri, I said you can come down to my farm, Missouri,

“if you want to meet, and he said okay, so you drove down.”

- Really? - And I met him, yeah. And then of course I put way too much money in this thing and it's crazy. I will say like when I've learned about quick serve restaurants

and fast food, is if you want to make money go into fried chicken or burgers. - Yeah, for salads or a hard sell, but I've been almost like this in my problem. I don't care.

I love it. - Yeah. - And so I think Clayton Farms is like the greatest thing ever, it's so cool. - How much money did you give the guy first of all?

- I think I'm in a firm million, though.

- And then how much are they making money at all? - No, I mean I know it's a profit. - I mean the selling, I mean the names are like, the aims location is actually like very profitable. It's a good for like a one single location.

- Yeah. - The business is not profitly, yeah. - Right. - And then hopefully launching, I think we, I probably pushed him to make a mistake which is like to try to like build it kind of like

in the Midwest and like these places where their food deserts come to LA, that would be so cool. - I think what we realized is so we're going to San Francisco. I think we're gonna hit, it's like sort of like, it's like bring sand to the beach here.

But yes, people will use it here and whatever, but I really did it because I want to bring fresher food to places that are eating to much processed food. - Yeah. - I'm just gonna have to, it's gonna be a two-pot.

“I'm gonna have to first I think build it in the big cities,”

use that money to then reinvest it in. And by the Clayton's mission is to do that also. Like the founders like super aligned with that, but I think we need to like grow first in like New York, LA, San Francisco like, you know,

Chicago, Miami. - Miami. - Well, you know, it's funny because I don't really, everyone says it's like bringing sand to the beach,

but yet the sand's always doing that does well here.

- Hi, you know. - You know? - And it will also say there's not that many great salad places here. They're really orange. If you really think about it, there's not.

- And this is like, this isn't saying. Like it's like the taste is different. - Oh, it sounds amazing. - Oh, it sounds amazing. So give me an example. What kind of salad would it be like a chicken salad,

all right? - I mean, it's like regular like, whatever like phrase that we have like to great salad. - I'm gonna Google this after. - Yeah, the base is great because it's all like fresh grown, like whether it's like, you know,

romaine or like mixed greens, whatever the whole stuff is. - Rugal, I don't know. - He's the salad guy. And then we have, we have great dressing, like good fresh dressing.

And then the ingredients are like, yeah, like, it's just like, you know, good, you have like, organic chicken and like whatever. - That sounds great. - I usually do like there's a simple thing that I just get like the mixed greens

and like chicken and like, you know, like a raspberry vinaigrette. And it's like, that's, I'm done. Like it's some avocado chopped on there. - That's so good. - Boom.

- That's a good, I like those companies. Is there any other ones that you did? - Um, I have one that's that does fire fighting with dry ice. So if you think about it, water is like, we've used water since we've had fire.

So whenever we created, whoever created fire, like some caveman, you use some water to put it out. Like that's like what we've used.

And we have never, we have not evolved at all

on how we fight fires in anything. And dry ice is a great way to fight fire because fire is both, it's basically heat and oxygen. And dry ice is cold and it sublimates carbon dioxide. So if you think about it, dry ice basically makes it cold.

So it takes away the heat. - Right. - And it puts off carbon dioxide with chokes the fire. - Oh, it's a really, and it does leave nothing behind. So if like a house caught on fire

and you spray dry ice into it. - Right, it wouldn't ruin the house. - There's no water right there. - The problem is the water like in a house fire, usually why a house is like sort of, it's maybe one room,

but like the water gets into the ceiling and destroys the whole thing. It fills the whole thing up. And so it's a really interesting. It's very hard to like, how do you store it all the stuff?

So that's what we've been figuring out. So we have some stuff now. And you actually just launched this guy, just launched the first product with it, which is more for industrial.

- I think of one also. - Battery fires is cool, you know. - These are interesting. - Yeah, I'll lose all my money at some point in all these. - Oh, that's okay, but listen, you have a lot.

I mean, not a billion, but you have a lot. And so how much like how long is your deal with Amazon? You're just gonna see it there indefinitely. - At this point, I just indefinitely.

I mean, it's like, it's, AI has made ring feel like it's back in the garage again.

- Yeah, I totally, and like every day, I mean, I'm on calls now, like building product that feels like we're back to. 'Cause it's like they're groundbreaking. You know, whereas I'd say when we got to the end

when I was in like 2021, 2022, 23, it was like more iterative, which is still fine.

“I mean, we, I think we still did great products,”

but there were more iterations. Like we're gonna go higher on the kilobits on the camera and better audio. Like it was just fine, but now we're just iterating at like a level that's just, I think it's crazy

the stuff we're gonna come out with. And so I think if that slows down at some point, which I, maybe it's five years, 10 years, 20, I don't know whatever it is. Maybe then I'd be bored again

and wanted to do something else and I'll figure it out. But for right now, I'm just like all in and just building stuff. - So you okay, so I didn't even ask you this 'cause it was not that important, but it's important, but I was more interested

in the Rolex watch apparently, the non-profit. But so you're from New Jersey, when did you move to LA and where did you go to school? - So I went to school, so I grew up in New Jersey, went to Babson College in Boston.

- When did you get entrepreneurship, actually? - Oh, you know, you're shaping an entrepreneur on an entrepreneur and all the things, okay? - Yeah, so I got an entrepreneurship and then started like a little telecom business

that I met a guy doing that, had a business plan thing, and then through that met another guy in telecom and he was doing phone cards and he wanted to move it to San Diego and so I just moved to say, I was like 23 years old.

- Okay, so you've been on the West Coast since then. - To move to San Diego, met a girl in LA, she said she, I was gonna move back to these coasts, like I was just like here temporarily. - Right. - And she's like,

I literally, I first did, I'm like just so you know,

like I'm moving back to Boston at some point. She was like, okay, like, I'd like to live in Boston. She's a liar. (laughing) My wife, Erin.

- Oh wow. - Wow. - Yeah, and so literally we got engaged like the next morning, literally I'm not kidding, like the morning after we got engaged, she's like just FYI, we're not moving back to these coasts.

- And you're like, oh, it's nice to know now. - Yeah, it's like that's really great. I'm like, that's really, give me the ring back. - Yeah, yeah. - That was fine. - Yeah. - And I love, so I've been now

in California a long time. So I love something California, I love Los Angeles. I wish we could get maybe some better people to run some things here, but I do love the place and the people.

- Well, it's funny because most people who have a business have made a lot of money, they've already left.

“Like the last person should shut the lights off, you know?”

- I worry about that. - Right, 'cause there's no, like, no business is even here anymore. - I mean, the, the, the, - Very few. - Very, the, the seizure tax, if that passes,

will really, I mean, it's already had a huge impact on. - Oh, me, California, and I think it's just, it's a sad one 'cause it goes after like the very core but we are here, which is like the one thing we really are in California's entrepreneurs.

Like we are inventors, like this is, this space has been built on crazy inventors. - But they all leave. Once they, before they sell their business, they're all leaving.

- I think the hopeful size is always more coming in

and California has always been a place that just like inspires invention. But yeah, I think it's, it's, you know, I love it. So I hope it, I hope it lasts for a long time and can go through it stuff.

So you have for Cisco's a good example of a place that actually is becoming, you know, like Daniel Laurie has really turned to San Francisco around, which is kind of cool to see. And so hopefully depending on like where we go here,

like I'm hopeful that California will be a great place to do business again at some point. - Are you gonna keep on with the ring or is there any other invention and knew that you're curious to kind of explore?

- It's funny 'cause I, that's like my problem is like, I couldn't find, it's not invention. It's like the thing that impacts people at scale. And so like once you've had a hundred million devices out there stopping crime and doing this

and when things happen, you're sort of seeing it lead to literally on like TV in the morning without doing it and you're seeing like, ring was well, you know, it's like, I think it's really hard to then just go and like build something.

'Cause it's like, what is it? - Are your parents so proud of you? - So I mean, my dad passed away before ring came out. So like that was a bummer, I mean, a bummer for many reasons he didn't really died,

but I think he would have loved to like, he would have gotten a kick out of this. My mom is financial syllabus in Jersey, like kind of the same place, and she's a fine little sparky lady. And like, yeah, she's pretty proud.

My brother is great and he's proud. And so yeah, it's been cool. - We need your dad, too. - He was like the guy behind an entrepreneur.

So he would always tell me like, James,

you need to just take a small amount and just work for someone, you know? He was always like the CFO kind of of the company. - Like the second income man kind of guy, like the guy working for the guy.

“And he was like, that's what you want to be.”

You never want to be out front. And I always be like, you're out of your mind, dad. Like I just want to, and so he had this business partner that guy he worked for Adam and BLE. And so all like, it's just like my dad be telling this

and I'd be like, looking at Adam and be like, I'm going to be that guy. - Right, oh wow. - It was just kind of a funny thing of how kids are, and you know.

- And then look what happened. You created an entire category that was never even existing before. - Yeah. - Wow.

Did your mother even understand the caliber of what she's doing, like what you did?

- Well, that's why I didn't take that in my mom.

“I think like, until honestly until I left ring,”

you know, five years after Amazon. - Yeah. - I've been after I sold it, like, another guy fully recognized the impact we had. I think there's something about being inside of a company

because you're seeing like, I see the problems every day. Like I see my emails on every box, like we're not perfect. Like there's a customer service that, like customer doesn't issue. So, so I think until I left and all that noise went away,

and I could just see the world like clean slate, it was like holy cow. This thing is really like wow. - I'm sure, are you still friends with all your old friends, like before you became?

- Yeah. - Not a billionaire. - No, I'm friends with, yeah, like my friends from high school. I mean, it's hard 'cause I grew up in New Jersey.

- I know. - But like, I go back to New Jersey, at least once a year we get together. I have a big dinner and stuff. And so like, yeah, like it's like,

I've tried to maintain friends with a lot of the guys from college or so friends. - Do you think you'd advice for people who were listening to this and how to structure businesses where they don't get diluted,

like you got diluted like this or something? - I think it's actually more of,

“if you're, I think the biggest problem is not dilution”

or not dilution.

I think it's the problem is when someone raises a little bit

of money, but they're like worried about their dilution. I think you either got to be like, if you're gonna raise money from venture capitalist, drop the hammer. - Yeah.

- Go as fast as you can as hard as you can raises. Much as you can, who cares what you own? Just freaking go. And if you're not gonna do that, do the opposite, which is like raise a tiny bit of money,

be super careful, go slower. Like I think it's like one or the other. I think the one where people I see the worst is that they go a little slower because they wanna hold their value,

but yet they never build the value because they're going too slow. And so I think it is like, if you're, you know, because venture capitalist, like the good thing is they were aligned

with what I was doing. - Yeah. - Like they wanted me to go fast. They wanted me to take the money and just rip it and rip it.

- How much do you think it's your like ability and your, you're like, you're the kind of person you are versus the idea.

“- I mean, well, I'm best in which one do you think people can do that?”

- I mean, I think it creates something that's like a ring is luck. Because it's just like, there's just too many things outside of your control, timing, market conditions, like there's just so many things

that are outside of your control. Now, I think different times call for different people and whatever. Like a ring needed, like whoever was going to build the ring of that time needed to be my type of personality

which is like grit, go fast, you know, for break everything in the process kind of thing. And I think the different companies take different types of people at different times that become these like, again,thropic, like, you know,

talk about a company that seems to be just like breaking out right now and doing stuff that's like, I mean, crushing and like breaking everything. Like, you know, and it's like, Dario's a totally different type of person than I would be.

I mean, just like, could not be more from what I've seen. Like, I don't know, I don't know him, but like, could not be more different. So I think it is, you know, it's like, there's just different people for different businesses

in different times. - You think they're going to take over chatGPT in terms of popularity and use and everything else? - I mean, it looks like they could be a runaway. It looks like they could be the Nvidia,

you know, like Nvidia, which is insane. Like, I don't think people even like

recognize how insane it is that in the most important part

of the most important market that maybe is ever existed in the world, there's one company that basically controls at all, which is a medium. There's people that make chips, but no one's even close to them.

It seems like, I mean, I actually just looked like Amazon might have now with these like training them and some of the stuff actually might be sort of catching up, which is, which is very hopeful for 'cause I'm an Amazonian. But, I mean, even if even if Amazon catches up,

it would be too like it's crazy. - I mean, something that's like literally the biggest most important market ever in history of the world. And like right now, and it looks like anthropic might be breaking out to just be ahead of everyone in such a way

that's like, it's fascinating to watch. - It is, it's a whole different time. - Yeah. - Is there anything I haven't asked you or did I miss that you think is important to add?

- No, I think like the most important like people are listening and like, it's just like, I think it is like, go for something, to me it's like, go for something you're passionate about. - It's people are listening.

- I mean, I should say, yeah, I'm like, hopefully those that are listening. - Hopefully have one or two people. - No, but I mean, it's like, you know, a mumble, if, you know, it's like, but you know, it's like,

the thing you're, go for the thing you're passionate about, be who you are, and like work hard. And I do think with AI, the grit side is going to become way more valuable than all this other crap that's been like, you know, of the Stanford person

and the best developers in the best, this is like the best developers' plot. - Exactly. - Like, it's not putting down engineers. It's just the best engineers are the ones that know

at their disposal and then managing that,

that's the most powerful thing they can do.

- Well, there's nothing also that could ever take the place of human connection, relationships, community. - That's hope. - I know, I know, let's hope. - Oh my God, I actually agree with you.

I'm very hopeful that basically, you know,

“I think that, no matter how intelligent AI becomes,”

there is a reason why humans, it's the EQ side, becomes more valuable. - Oh for sure. - And EQ is grit. Like, yes.

- Like, IQ's not grit, EQ's grit. - Believe me, I'm, at least, I talk about this at Nazium. I mean, if you're listening, people who are listening, this is like my speech every day, grit, you know, going after things, not overthinking it,

like belief, you know, all the things, right? Like persistence. - But it was amazing, it's like, there was a time in the last 10 or 20 years where, like, intelligence Trump's grit.

- When? - Oh, I would say for sure, there's a lot of examples of companies - Tell me, give me three. - Keith, three, oh God.

Now you get me, you get me on the spot with that. - I wanna know three companies were intelligence was a more important than grit. - Like, right in email later. - Yeah, well, no, but I think there was a time,

how about two? - No, I think there's definitely a time when you play. - You can't even think of any. - I can't think of mine, I mean, I was the time I had, I mean, like, yeah.

- Well, no, you made it very hard to state, right? - Maybe you're right. - That was right, that was you got me. - I don't really think, if there's any, that I think of.

- Yeah. - I, I didn't entire TED talk on this topic. - Yeah, you might be right.

“- So, that's why I'd be curious to hear that.”

- So, I guess it's still great. - Maybe I was just like the thing that like, grit matters more with it. - I think, I, I think I want to think that grit matters more, they are, because the more you democratize. - No, I'm saying angry.

- No, I didn't agree. - No, I didn't agree with it, but then I was like thinking, I guess it's,

but I guess it's always been grit.

- When it's not grit, it's nepotism. - Maybe, you know, maybe you still needed when you, maybe you need a gritty person needs less of the superintelligence stuff. Like now, it's like, 'cause you still, like, like Facebook still needed Google still needed.

- Yes. - So, maybe it's like you could build those now without having to find, because you'd be like, that was part of the hard part was like finding these engineers to come on there with you.

- Maybe it's that. - Maybe it's that. - Well, what I would think is what you need for a deadly, like a deadly, whatever, like, to be like the secret weapon is someone who's incredibly gritty,

and then who also has the, like, analytic intelligence, 'cause usually one doesn't come with the other, right? Street smart is very different than academics. I'm a big street smart person, you know? - But I do think the world's gonna go more into the streets smarts them

because the academic side has been democratized. - Yes. - Okay. - That's like, it's maybe that's my... - But I mean, I would be curious later on,

doesn't it? I'll let you take a few days, even a week, and get back to me on which companies did intelligence. - Like it is. - Maybe you could be like the founders

a lot of companies had to code before, like, like Mark Zuckerberg. - Yeah, okay. - Like Mark Zuckerberg, the next Mark Zuckerberg is not gonna be not gonna necessarily be someone

who came from a place where they had to like code, and they were, like Mark Zuckerberg is incredibly intelligent. - Yes, he's incredibly intelligent. - Yeah, it's insanely intelligent. - Is he your friend also?

- I actually, I don't really know Mark that well. - Oh, okay, go ahead. - But he isn't insanely intelligent. - Yeah. - And he needed to be to build what he had to build

to do it, to like structure it in the code. And I think the next part, like, I'm seeing, I'm seeing entrepreneurs now, they're like, the all the coding, the apps, everything else they're just doing,

they don't know anything about coding, but building this stuff. - Who is the most impressive entrepreneur that you can think of? - Yeah, there's a ton, I'm trying to,

who's the most impressive entrepreneur?

“I mean, I think James Dyson is probably the one”

that sticks out the most for me, because he's the balance of invention, engineering, business building, brand building, like personal brand, like, all of it together. Like, and stands for someone who's like a great human too.

Like, so it's like kind of like all of it in one.

- Have you ever, have you ever, never met him?

- No, I know, I gotta, I need to, I need to like, it's like, I don't know, I keep always saying, I gotta reach out to, I just am never, I've never met someone that seems to know him to like get, yeah.

- It's for saying. - So I gotta, I gotta, I gotta, I do need to make that happen, 'cause he was, I did look with ring, like he was like, not like my mentor,

but I sort of had him as a mentor of, when I said to you like, if you go into a store and you see ring, 'cause to me it was like, that was the thing that I was able to type that off of his dice. - Yeah.

- When you go into a store and you see dice in on a box, whatever that box is, hair dryer or a vacuum, you're like, I know this is the best. - Like, so true. - And that, I wanted ring to stand for that in our own way,

and not the best, like in the dice in way, but the best in like home security and like the taste. - But it does, like, that's really, it's a non-immissive thing. - Yes, exactly.

- It is a non-immissive thing. Like, when you think of any type of camera like that, like why if I camera, rings the only one, it's a non-immissive thing. - Well, it's next or whatever, I keep a thing to do.

- And the dice and it's like the dice and vacuum.

- Like, my wife said the other day I'm gonna grab the dice

and she came and she'd vacuum something else. You know, it's not a dice and-- - Yeah, I think it was funny.

“- Yeah, I think it's like, like, you said to me earlier,”

that was nest or like, that wasn't a-- - That's a great compliment at something. - He was like, yeah. - Like, that's what I'm saying. What you did was incredibly, just impressive.

And every way. - So I think of like what he's done, I think it's like, that's probably one of the most impressive people. Again, in my space of things,

there's lots of entrepreneurs have done incredible things,

but like that's like my space of what I look at. - And that's amazing. Okay, well, where do people find, like, I guess we can buy a ring if you don't have one, probably if you're--

“- Yeah, you should definitely buy a ring.”

- Yeah, 100%, but 100 million, I'm sure most people already who are listening, have a ring, but maybe use the different features, like the dog feature, the other feature. - We have lots of life features coming out.

So yeah, I mean, that's the cool thing. Ring right now is like, the amount of features we're putting out every week, month is unbelievable. - Unbelievable. - I know.

I like my thing, God, I have my ring. I love it. - Thank you. - And I'm not just saying that to be polite, I mean it. - No, I appreciate that.

- All right, well, thank you for being on the habits and hustle. I think we're done.

“I think I've asked you every question that--”

- Thanks for that. - People can, I came out of the book called Ding Dong. - Well, what is you say so? - Because, you know, it's like, I'm a promoter. It's my, I'm like a promoter ring, not for myself.

- But that is a ding dong, when did it come out? - It came out last year, and it's kind of the story of ring up until the day we sold. So it's not like post sale, but it's like all these hijinks and things we did and stuff that we were doing

crazy stuff, yeah. - Can I say one thing that's driving me crazy? Okay, you're sure, it looks like the eye, the dot on the eye, looks like it is a coffee stain. Why did you not make it orange or a different color?

It just looks like it's a coffee stain. - Is this paring at it? - This is like an older one. So like the spot in the screen is played, but I don't know, maybe I should.

- I don't know, that's just like something I, I mean, he by guys have a great day. Oh, I should also say guys, if you have not subscribed, please subscribe if you're watching this. Also any type of comment or anything you wanna share

is always great for us to kind of make this podcast

as good as it can be. If you have a guest that you'd want me to reach out to, please let me know. And then, thank you to Jamie. - Thank you, thanks for having me.

- Bye! (upbeat music)