Episode 563: Sadia Khan: The Modern Relationship Advice Your Therapist Got Wrong

You guys, we have a very special guest. I know I say this a lot, but I'm a big fan of hers for Nemesalia Khan. You probably have seen her all over social media because she is a viral

“psychotherapist who gives really, I think, great advice on relationships, men, women and”

it's kind of sometimes somewhat polarizing, which is why so much of it goes viral. But almost

almost always so spot on an accurate, which is why I think also people have taken to you

the way they have. And she has a new book called Red Flags. And we're going to talk about so many other things. So Saudi, all the way in from Dubai. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. Such a pleasure. Oh, such a pleasure. I've been watching your stuff for years. Like, I mean, probably what? Three, four, how have you been doing this stuff? It's in 2023. So about three years, three years. Wow. It feels like it's been longer.

It does feel like that. But I actually, the moment I came on social media, it kind of in viral that day. So there was no build up. So it feels like people have known me forever, but they literally knew me from the day I started. And it just kind of went from there. It's really true. Really weird. There was no build up. There was no slow trajectory. It was just kind of on and off. You know, it's funny because you did explode right off the bat. Yeah. I remember

saying a couple of your videos. And they were so, they, they were so good in terms of the content. And you don't hear a lot of people talking about what you talk about because you're not trying to be counter-intuitive. But you are counter-intuitive. And it's, and it's, but it's actually

“so accurate. I think. And I think people were sharing it. So, like, I guess so early. Yeah.”

Right away, people were sharing it. So you went viral so quickly. Yeah. And it was a time, it was so lucky with the timing. As much as I would love to say, I just went viral. It was very good timing because it was a time where undertate was, you know, the red pill stuff was really heavy. And then there was the, the feminism that was really heavy. And there was a whole cohort of women like me who were like, I don't like the red pill stuff. I'm also not the staunch feminists. And they

just didn't have a voice. And I came in as kind of like the middle ground. And every bit so many

people say you just worship men and your men side. But then there's men that say you're always on the

women's side. And I think when there's an equal backlash, then you're probably neutral. And I, I'd like to say that I'm always on children's side. I'm on their side of what will make a happy home and a good, like set of parents and co-parents. I'm always kind of the northern star has always been

“like what's best for children. If I teach men to hate women, it's more terrible for parenting.”

And if I teach women to hate men, that's going to be terrible for parenting. So it's always kind of finding the balance between the two to get to a healthier home. I mean, that's really well said. I find that so much of your content with what you can talk about it now is about number one masculinity, which I found to be really like on point. There's so many trends that you kind of were speaking on. Like the first trend I was on this masculinity, how men, for example, we're losing

men or not as alpha or masculine as they used to be and how women need an alpha or masculine men. Yes. And so I saw that clip and I was like share share and everybody can we talk about that. Like we're happy to kind of come to this. Tell me about a little bit about that and the evolution of how you kind of got your research and data and what you speak from. Thank you for that question. Great question. What happened is and this is probably why it was so different is and I talk about this

in my book. I was following when I first became a therapist, this amazing resources. So they'll

teach you about attachment styles, they teach you about gothic theory, they'll teach you about love languages and you feel so intelligent when you learn all of this. So when I first started having clients, I was like, okay, as a man, you just need to show her love language if she likes gifts give her a bunch of gifts. If she wants quality to time just do that and I was following all of the advice that I've been written for years and thinking that's going to lead to results.

It never ever did because the fundamental ingredient before she can love you, she has to admire you to some extent and women can't admire men that have no masculinity. So if he's super passive, super soft or if he's on the other hand, he's super lustful and he's always like you know, chasing women. No matter how many gifts you give or quality time, the underlying woman will never be able to submit respect or admire you if you're not a truly masculine man. There's no

point of a really submissive loving man if then he's weak and he's not powerful. There's no point of a really an affluent man if then he's lustful and chasing other women. So without the underlying pin of masculinity, women were just not responding to the advice I was giving men. They would go back to their wives and do everything I was telling them and it wasn't working and then I realized it's because there's something broken in their masculinity and until we fix that none of this therapy

advice will work and sometimes the advice in therapy makes them even more less masculine. So it teaches them even more like to be feminine. So it tells them to be emotionally available, be vulnerable,

minutes but then what are you going to do about it? Yes okay you're really upset that your father upset you. No problem, be upset for five minutes but then tell me how you're going to find a solution to this problem but this undertone of just constant complaining, constant vulnerability, constant emotional behavior from men that therapy is teaching them makes women feel a bit stressed because they don't have somebody to take the lead. So that's where I kind of realize that this advice is

not going to work until he's masculine. And no matter what she says, no matter how much she says, I want to imagine just let me be me even like with the feminists and they'll say, I want a man, I don't want him to be insecure if I'm posting nudes online, he should not care, if I'm going to the club or night, he should not care but the guy that doesn't care, she doesn't feel protected by him and she doesn't respect him. So it's a downward spiral. So that's

where I kind of realize that actually the advice is not working, I need to fix my my therapeutic practice and I started doing different kind of techniques and it worked completely. I think that's so it's so brilliant because you're right, like so much of this is about like, well what's your love language and then if you're a love language is gifts and minds of affirmations and like then therefore we're going to have a great relationship. It doesn't work that way.

Not at all. Especially in this day and age because you can just get these girls that might be escort and that's in my love language. Yeah. And he starts giving gifts gifts gifts but she's like not interested in it. Exactly. We're only using it. So it's this kind of understanding that is not looking at the red flags. These these techniques won't work if your partner has these red flags. So I was trying to train men because they also train to just not have any expectations with women.

Just totally except don't look for red flags. Think women are these kind, wonderful people.

But me as a woman I've experienced that even myself we have we we're not always kind. We can be

very difficult. So if you're constantly pandering to us you're not going to know how to navigate us

“and that's what I was trying to teach my clients and then I put it online and it kind of went”

viral from there. Right. So I guess the word I was looking for is like you had you took the veneer off and it was honest. And I think people are very offended by sometimes honesty and therefore like because of that like that polarization. Yeah. It caused like a lot of like, you know, chitter chatter. Yeah. I mean it did and I think this is where my cultural difference makes a big difference. Yes. I sometimes because I grew up as a Pakistani woman my family is so normal

want to be like Saudi looks so fat. You look so terrible. What have you done to yourself? Like it's so normal for my mum to say you look terrible. And we would be like really and that would be it. There would be no trauma. There would be nothing to it. It would be that's it. They're just giving feedback. And when you when I had friends in England, they would be like, your mum just called you fat. You know that's you know, you can call the you can call the police on her. That's a abuse.

I said, abuse you'll beat me up if I call the police to the other. This way I can't do that. And so

we had to do a different version of what abuse look like. We are just grew up thinking honesty is essential.

Niceness and plightness is not essential. We found honesty is the pivotal thing in connections. So we I may be just a cultural thing but generally I think in a lot of poor countries and that kind of culture they don't they don't have these niceties. I think that's slightly when you're bitten survival

“mode just straight to the point true on how that's how you build trust. So they always had this”

honesty as the main approach whereas my Western friends living in London they felt like that's so offensive. And so I kind of grew up a bit autistic in the sense that I would just think this is honest but what's the problem? I don't know why I was a fending people. So even if I say something simpler or attractive women, you know, they're a little bit more suspicious of men because they've always experienced something different to unattractive women. People would be like, there's no such

thing as unattractive women. I'm like, this plenty, like I found them attractive so many times. It's a bit men that like, there's no such thing I know, but there's plenty and just not a bad thing. It's just we're all going to be unattractive at some stage. It's also a honesty too. I that's why a resident you resonate with me because like you're I kind of in the same I'm coming from the same I guess for the same block as you which is like honesty. I think honesty cuts through the bullshit.

Yeah. That's how you really make connection. That's how things have like substance actually accursed. This like, you know, standing on ceremony and these niceties get you nowhere fast. Yeah. Or it gets you somewhere with the wrong people get me nothing. It's very like surface nonsense.

Yeah. And so I that's why I appreciate that like truth. Like I always say to people, you know,

if you're a five or six, why are you like you you're like you're looking like you're single because you want an 11 or 12, but you're a five or six, like you're not realistic with your set, like who you are to get that number and how do they take that? You're offended. You know, but the people who like are similar to like how you would I would think. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Of course. You know,

“like that's how it is. That's just that's reality. I think I don't place so much emphasis on”

looks to the point. I know it looks like I do, but it doesn't kill me if someone finds me unattractive. That won't kill me. It's not the end of the world if someone and the other thing is I'm so aware that some stage everybody becomes unattractive. Myself, my parents, my family, we get

that it was so offensive until I went online. And then everybody was so offended. So offended. But then I think it doesn't help being a woman when you say these things. I think like I see a lot of James Sachsen who's brilliant and I see a few obviously. And he's very straight to the point as well. He's very rooted in honesty. And again, I think it's because of the work he does. He works with real clients that need real honesty from him. And it's somehow land a bit easier

when it's coming from a man than I think when it comes from a woman, which I understand. So, I think that also didn't help. But coming from a woman being this blunt person,

“it wasn't matching up. So, I think that's what it was matching up, I think. Because I just”

because I think polarization, whatever, is good. And I think that honesty is good. And I think what, you know, water finds its level. So, you're going to meet people or find people gravitate to you who also appreciate honesty. You also want that, you know, the sheath to be taken off. So, like, I'm a big believer that not everyone's for everybody. You know, like, people will find what they're, what they gravitate to. So, yeah. So, you're not going to be appealing to the people

who find that they want to live in Lullolan, great, you know. But for people who like appreciate bold bloodness, yeah, all day, you know. Yeah, the only problem is the internet is more kind of pivoted towards those people who are easily offended. They've got louder voices. Where people like me and you would see something we're offended by, maybe not. And just scroll whilst they're. But those people who are easily offended, they can't just scroll past it. That

lives with them for days. So, sometimes I'll see people making videos about me and they're like, sadly, I can't do this video. And I know she's talking about me and all like, why would I be talking about what's it? But they sent it my opinion so much that they think I sent it then. So, they take it so personal. Whereas I'm so capable of not personalizing information,

good about. But the problem is with non-truth seekers who are sensitive, they personally,

something that could be said by a complete strange that they personalize it really quickly. I know, that's a big, that's a problem. I mean, but that's when they should be working on in my

“opinion. Yeah. But you said something earlier that I think is very valuable for people to know”

and listen to is that when you are so set, when you're so focused solely on your physical appearance, that comes and goes. Yeah. So, that's like the first, that's the first issue, right? Like you have the builders, like I find sometimes the most sexy, beautiful people are not necessarily the most physically beautiful. But it's their attitude. It's their confidence. It's the way that carry themselves and hold themselves. That makes all the difference. You could have the most

beautiful 10 out of 10 women in front of me or man or whatever. But if they are insecure and have a low self esteem and uncomfortable in their own skin, that 10 becomes a two real quickly. And that's where hypersensitivity is super unattractive. Yes. So in men and women's, hypersensitivity is a real killer in relationships because people who are hypersensitive tend to gravitate towards each other, they end up with each other. And the other thing is they can't be honest with each other.

Because they're, so I'll meet men who haven't touched their wives in years. And they'll say, she's gained so much weight. I'm not attracted to anymore. And I was like, why don't you tell I said that you can work? Oh, she will have it to your reaction so badly. So I was like, so you're just going to have this dead marriage. And both of you're going to stick to it because you're both too sensitive to have that conversation. They're like, yeah. So they have this hypersensitivity

that makes honesty impossible in relationships. It makes honesty and intimacy impossible. If you are a hypersensitive person, it's an incapability for you to have real connections in your life. Because you don't allow for truth to be the glue in your relationships. And so people tip to around you.

Even your partners will tip to around you. And you'll never know what people truly think or want

for you. So my point, well, you see, so hey, babe, like we're both gaining a bit weight. Let's get into the gym as well. Count no problem. Or babe, like, you know, your hair's looking different. Like, do properly. Whatever it is. But that keeps us attracted to each other. But if I was super super sensitive, he can't say it. Then I can't say it. And then we grow apart emotionally. And that's not really a good thing in relationships. Is that similar? Let's talk because that's a good segue

into one of the things that you talk about in the book as one of the red flags in an area, which, by the way, there's like so much stuff in the book that I want to talk about. And it's

“stuff out of the book. I have to, I think what I'm going to do actually is use my phone with questions.”

Yeah, because it's easier for me to look at. So don't think I'm being rude. Please, what? No, because I'm doing it. So last minute, I was like, this is not going to

a whole thing. How are you going to? Oh, but you're, but the content is so amazing that,

I mean, because Saudi should develop 10 questions for every therapist to ask their patient and or their partner to ask their other partner. Yeah. And it's, and it's basically called the red flag indication. Is that what's on the red flag indication? Yeah, red flag indicators, which I think when I went through these questions, they were brilliant. But you just said some man, one of them that I read through because we're talking about dysfunction is people pleasing a little bit.

So that, so suddenly cannot be honest with their partner, does that kind of, does that

to ask their partners, are you a nice guy or a nice girl? The moment you, they are, unfortunately,

“their relationships are either going to end up abusive or they're going to be difficult relationships.”

And the reason why people please, is have the worst relationships. Way more than narcissistic people. But narcissistic people have the best relationships. And the reason they have the best relationships, they don't set up for less. They think they're really deserving, they expect love and loyalty.

They have amazing relationships. The people that suffer the most in relationships are actually

people pleases. And the reason people pleases suffer the most in relationships is because they have a set of fears that I talk about in the book, the first fear that they have, and they have a distinct deep rooted fear of the truth. They are terrified of the truth. The people pleases would be so scared to ask questions that would lead to the truth. So maybe have a people pleaser client. And I'm like, why have they been gone for so many days? Like, where do you partner been?

Why have they not contacted you? Why don't want to ask? I don't want to know like I have it. And they would rather just not know. And so they would much rather just, you know, bury the head on the sand and ask these deeper questions. I remember having one client. And he found that his wife wasn't sleeping with him. But he found that she was taking the is it the plan B or the morning after? Yeah. And she was taking the morning after and he'd see

like, wrappers of that in the house. And I said, did you ask her? And he's like, no, I don't want to ask her that question. I didn't want to know. I don't want to know. I don't want to. And I said,

“you wouldn't, you wouldn't be like, hey, like, we're not sleeping together. Why do you need to take this?”

He just didn't want to know that it's true. And that happens in men and women. They just don't want to know the truth. They'd collect the data, but they don't ask the truth. And the reason they don't want to, uh, the second fear they have is they have an intense fear of conflict. Conflict for them is like the worst thing in the world. Whereas, you know, non-people pleases are like, hey, look, you're late to meet me. Hey, what's going on? Where are you like?

You're so late? Like, can you let me know? Oh, and they hash it out in two minutes. They both forget. But what people pleases do is they're so terrified of conflicts. So they build up all the things they're upset about and make narratives in their head, but they don't say it. So they build up. So even if they have a conflict with a friend, they'll say, oh, she must have been like in pictures and she was doing this. They collect all this data, make a narrative, but none of it has been

fact checked because they don't have the conversation with the person. So they have that fear of truth, the fear of conflict, and they have an intense fear of rejection. They're so scared of being rejected that they tip to around the person and please them as much as possible. Whereas, if you're not a people, please, or someone says to you, do you want to go for sushi? You might not like sushi, or so no, I don't like sushi. Let's just go somewhere else. And if people, please,

I would think, oh, yeah, okay, no problem. Because in their mind, they think if they're given alternative perspective, that person's going to reject them. So I just have to tip to around them as much as possible. And they're so scared of that rejection that they actually feel super lonely.

Even though people, please, you know, they've done nothing wrong to anybody. They've never harmed

anybody. They're always the person that people forget about and don't love truly because they don't know them truly. So so many people, please, are deeply lonely. Even though they might be married, they might be with people. They're so deeply lonely because they don't have conflict and truth for connections with people. Nobody truly knows what they're really thinking and feeling. So they're always playing a role around their relationships, rather than being themselves,

so they feel more lonely than anybody else. And they suffer particularly in toxic ratios. Because imagine, if I was a total pre-for-presum, after two minutes, you'd get bored of my company. Yeah. You're not being yourself. I don't know anything about you. It's boring. Yeah. Well, an narcissistic person would be like, "Perfect. No problem. You're not giving me any pushback. You'll do what I say. You lend me money. You go to the restaurants. I want to

go to this is perfect." So people, please, are the exact ingredients that a narcissist needs in order

to form a relationship. So just that people, please, are an narcissist usually end up today. They always end

up together. But they're both to contribute for that dynamic. So they will always come to me and say my exes, another one of the questions I'm very sorry about. As I always ask, is it like to ask, do you think your exes are narcissists? People who always say the exes are narcissists tend to have narcissistic traits themselves. So usually, if you have been with a narcissist, chances are you'll

“never think it. You'll think they're the best thing in the world. You would think they're amazing”

and so on and so forth. Because you think you were the problem. Because that's how narcissists work. They convince you of their own narrative. But those people who break up with somebody in automatically is a narcissist, automatically they're a narcissist survivor. Ultimately, they're posting about this. They are just a victim. They've got a real victim mentality because a regular person would think he screwed me over, I pissed me off, he's terrible. Ugh, these things happen. But somebody who thinks that

they're so above the rules, think, how can you do this to me? I'm so wonderful. How can someone help me? You must have a disorder. So they spend their life kind of diagnosing other people, rather than just realizing we all make mistakes. Someone's piece of shit. I'm a piece of shit, sometimes. We will contribute to the dynamic. So when people overidentify with their ex-begonosis, usually they have a victim mindset. That's interesting. I feel like that's one of the things

that are constantly on social media. Everybody's a narcissist. Certain tropes or whatever, that's become like a very popular thing. Yeah. Narcissists, isn't it kind of overused a little bit?

that claim that their ex is a narcissist, what really happened is they were forcing someone who didn't

“love them to love them. That was all that was really happening. They're like, he's a narcissist.”

I wanted him to do this for me and do this for our birthday. I wanted him to get married to me. I wanted to have a baby with him and he just didn't want to do it. And then, but essentially, you were forcing someone who didn't truly love you to try and love you and now you're claiming that they have a personality disorder. When really if they were doing this all along, it's okay for somebody not to love you. So it's okay that they don't want to be with you. It's okay that they

might cheat on you even. You just let them go, but you holding onto them is what led to this dynamic of one person abusing you when they didn't, if you had just let them go earlier, they wouldn't have that opportunity. So we're talking about the people, please, as are the narcissists and how they usually end up together. Yeah. Two people, please, there's probably a daughter. Great, Diana. No, not at all, because no one can lead. Yeah. They're both submissive. So men who have

people, please, as are always usually with narcissistic women and women who have people, please, as

are with narcissistic men, but then with each other, they almost get the ache with, oh they don't have a personality and they don't have to lead or they don't realize what they're describing is their own behaviors, but they don't like. So they don't have a leader that will push the relationship and they don't have someone to follow because they're both people pleasing. Right. So it's a little bit tricky for them. If they can overcome that people pleasing, it would be beautiful

because they're both giving in relation to them. They're both super loving and they're both just want to be happily with someone, but they struggle to overcome it. But if they can overcome it, those two people would be great for each other. Okay. So what about two narcissists? Yeah. They're impossible. I genuinely would be very impossible because I genuinely try not to use the word narcissists. I know. Yeah. That's the say to be a narcissistic toxic or how about two people

“with narcissistic qualities? Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Even when you see these kind of”

narcissistic kind of qualities in men, and women, say for example if a girl is like a gold digger, and people usually whenever men talk about narcissistic women, they're talking about those really sexy girls that post up their own private jets and they won't give from men. And they usually label that as a narcissist. But she can only derive that from men who are using her for sex. She can't do that for a nice loving man who wants a loving family and a loving family. Yeah, she's doing

that from a man who's so obsessed with sex and so obsessed with having a sexy girl who would leave his wife and kid to just go be with this woman because she's got a sexy picture on Instagram. He's also narcissistic. He's also very narcissistic. So he's not a victim in this dynamic. So they just have different kind of needs. This transaction is a transactional and they're both very dark in that sense. They both have that dark nature. So I only see narcissists with each other

when I see escorts with a man that was paying and then they end up together. They tend to have both have narcissistic traits. By the way, what I've been very surprised about how common this is now.

These are the people that I would never have thought in a million years have escorts as a girlfriend.

“I'm seeing it all the time. Is it common in LA because it's super common in Dubai?”

I wouldn't say super common in every social circle. But I do see men who have a lot of money. They don't want to be bothered or they they're in sparian secure. And they feel like if they have like someone who just does what they say, it makes them feel like what I don't understand is like don't they realize that these people they've paid? I genuinely see nothing when we transactional relationships. I really have no judgment at all. But my golden rule is don't be delusional.

Don't be delusional. There is absolutely nothing when we transactional relationships. And this to an age honestly, as a woman, when you try and work hard and do it the right way, it's so much slower. It's so slow. It's so slow. It's so draining. It's so hard work. If you don't respect pictures of your feet and sell it, go for it. And these men don't reward hard working women. Ever. Like you know, and I'm saying this as

a therapist who's working. Totally. Yeah. Because I've worked in help millions of men. Like millions of my video will go by on so many men will say that they help me. But they're not paying up to pay me and say thank you so much. But if I posted like a nude or like these only fans goes, they're making 100 million a year some of them. 50 million. Crazy. Crazy amount. So it just shows them. They're not donating that money to charity.

They're only donating that money when it's attached to a woman that they want to have sex with. So we're just totally fine. But here's where they kid themselves. Men, they would make total sense if they're like, she's using me for my money. No problem. But they kid themselves into thinking she's in love with her. And she's loyal to him. And it's such a form of an insanity. That I just got to believe in this.

I had a way not like burst out laugh. I don't know. I did. They genuinely believe it. And they think, oh, because you know, I look after her. Of course, she loves me. All right. Look great for my education. I'm this. I'm not. I'm like really. You think that there's 20-year-old girl. You look like a 60-year-old man, really. And if she wants, if she didn't have to be.

And they always say the sentence, I look so young for my age. You might look young for a 50-year-old.

But you still don't look 26. And you know in here. So you start delusional mentality.

And I can see this even with my own experience. Our happiness level just naturally decreases with time and with effort and energy and everything like that. And we genuinely start to get more and more annoyed with men. As we get annoyed with men with age. They do happen. When you're younger, you're a lot happier as well. So I do understand that element. I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that too.

Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, I've heard that too. Yeah, they're happier. I get they don't have a care. Like they don't have a care in the world. Yeah, I don't understand. So if you're going into these transaction relationships things, she's really beautiful. She's a lot good, a beautiful body. And she's using me for my finances. She's a probably cheat on me and she'll probably use me in no problem.

But I don't make her the mother of my kids. And I don't get married to her. No problem. But if you're going to try and have a family with her and you're trying to get married to her and then you're shocked. When you're now, we serve diverse papers and she's stealing on your money. How can you be the victim in that? And they'll say, she's a narcissist. I gave her everything. She lied to me. She was cheating on me the whole time. She's not a narcissist. You knew exactly what you were signing up for.

So my advice to men in that position is enjoy every moment of being with this beautiful young girl. Just don't commit to that situation. But they want to. They really want to get used in a view. So I can't, you can't save them.

“I don't know. Why do they want to get used in a view? Is it more of a, is it an ego thing?”

Is it a more for because of an insecurity? Like what is like, these are some of these people are doing it. They're very smart, very like self-aware. And they're still going through it. And they still have the delusion, right? It really depends again. It's a question in my book. How they grew up. And I don't think childhood. I don't mean parents. I mean more, whether attractive.

Now, men who grew up super attractive. What happens to them is they start to see all women kind of available. They feel like they can access all types of women.

They don't see it as like, they don't what women's beauty on a pedestal. They've always had it

their whole life. So they kind of are just with women who are good to them. So really attractive men will focus on who they have a lot in common with, who treats them well. And just who they can raise a family with. That's what attractive men who grew up are attractive the whole life will think. But like Tony Robbins, you'll see his wife. Perfect kind of match for him. Like it makes sense. You look at them and it makes sense.

Or like Lewis House, all these people, you can tell that they've chosen women that make sense for them. Many who never grew up. Or age appropriate. Or like, yeah. Probably typically appropriate. Or all of those things. But the main thing is they know that they can have children with that woman. And if that child turned out like the woman, they'd be over the mood. She's got great characteristics. What men who grew up without looks

did is that firstly, they put women's appearance on a pedestal because they could never access it.

“So they think beautiful women are the key to happiness because they never got access to it.”

The other thing that happens with those men is when they do finally get with a beautiful woman, they become extremely submissive. They have no boundaries left whatsoever. They're just so proud of themselves. They got her that they don't care what how she treats them in private. As long as publicly they look like they've got her. So it's really about their sexual confidence, especially when they're growing up and also their sexual confidence in general.

And I know I don't like to use the term, but you know that big D energy or whatever is that. And men with small D energy will need a woman to make them look like a man. Men with big D energy will they are the man themselves. The woman is just an accessory. Like it's not like as in that way, but she's just an add-on. But as for men without that energy, she is the everything. So that's why they get a little bit more attached.

It's actually if you really, if I think about it, if I go back, if I go through my head and people, I know I find that to be so accurate. Sadly. Yeah. Yeah. It's so accurate. That's why this is why I'm saying like so much of your stuff. I've read and I'm like, well, that's so spot on. Like it's so accurate. If you really take a step back and think about it,

it's amazing. Oh, thank you. No, it's amazing. I had like, okay, so let's just go over some stuff here.

Because let's just talk, let's go, let's go to the basics here. Like what are the foundations of a healthy relationship? Let's start with that because then we're going everywhere and I didn't even ask you the first question. I'm going to go with everything. Yeah. But tell me what those are. Well, the green flags that I took about is the first thing is there has to be mutual attraction. The foundation to any healthy relationship is mutual attraction. If it's one way,

she's more attracted to him or he's more attracted to her. Unfortunately, it causes a power imbalance. Attraction has far more of an implication on the relationship than we realize. If one person is far more heavily attracted to the other or they're not attracted to each other too, they'll either go into siblings where they're just kind of roommates or it will be really submissive because the person who wants the relationship more will be begging and clawing for love.

“So mutual attraction is really important, which is why it honestly is really important throughout”

your mind. So as you're losing attraction, you talk about it, you've giant improvement, you do whatever it is. You keep on top of yourself if you can, especially now where men have access to

porn and all this stuff. It's better to try and keep that intimacy as much as possible. So always

start with mutual attraction. Second thing I would say is try and look for people who have good work ethic. I know there's this big thing that masquerade men want a housewife and they want all of that my personal experience and working with so many clients and you have seen it even in my own life. Back in the day, maybe not working was fine as women because we'd kept busy with our tribe of

purpose, what happens is it's very easy to get depressed. You're always scrolling. You're always

feed negative media. Life when you're not busy is a really ugly one now. We have TV shows were a little bit better because at least you'd have to concentrate and be... Now just constant

“shorter form content. We're terrible messaging. An unbusy life is really difficult. So we're...”

And also your brain is not designed to be unbusy. We're designed to be problem-solving. The more problem-solving we are, the more happy we are. There's no other solution to it. So if she's just at home or you're just a high-value man and bringing her everything, she will start to lose her purpose and she'll blame you for why she's depressed. And the relationship will start to plummet. So always, she's people with good work ethic, men and women.

Men, it's a given. You need a man with good work ethic, but I would say both people need good

work ethic if you want a good foundation to have a relationship. The third thing I would say is

try and look for people with similar families. And I don't mean if you're dysfunctional, you need it to function one. But there you have some level of similarity in their upbringing. The reason I say that is if someone's had really, really toxic upbringing and somebody's had a really healthy upbringing, the healthy person will talk to them in their healthy language and the toxic person will talk to them in their toxic language and they don't understand each other. They literally speak in different language.

In good circumstances, a healthy person can make that the person who grew up toxic in a healthy environment. Pretty a lot of work for them. So if you did grow up somewhat stable, try and look for stability if you can. It's really difficult becoming a therapist in your relationship. It's super difficult and it's really difficult when their family hates your family and it's just not a nice environment for raising kids in. So if you can't choose family that relatively get on or similar to

some extent that helps and the final thing sorry I'm going on and on. But the final thing I would say the fourth thing is having similar values and what I mean by similar values is we agree or fundamentally on the main things what's right and wrong. So if I think it's right for my child to be transgender and you think it's really, really wrong, we're going to fight so much. Whereas if we fundamentally agree

“on what's right, what's wrong, we generally get on easy life is a bit easier. So just do you”

think it's wrong to text an ex and I think it's totally fine on a birthday and he thinks it's the worst thing ever, we're going to bump heads all the time. But if we're both in agreement with or without each other, that's how we think life becomes easier with somebody you think the same as. Yeah, it's absolutely true. Sometimes it's too late, right? Like sometimes you find out a little too late. Yeah, it happens. You know I'm all about finding an edge. The small daily habits that give you more energy,

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Do you believe then? I mean we talked with earlier about like lovelang, which is an obvious kind of known attachment style. What do you think about this whole attachment style thing? It's a very popular thing now. He's an avoid it. No contact. Like if you're secure, what is your take and all of this? I talk about this in the book that I genuinely believe that sometimes we label people as a void and when really they're just not attracted to us.

It could be as simple as that, they're just not attracted to us. Now there's definitely truth in the theory. There's definitely anxious people, there's definitely a void on people and there's

“definitely secure people. But I would say before you label people you have to realise that they're”

actually because listen for me I'm a very anxious person. I can get very insecure and I can get all of those ways. But if I was talking to some of you I'm not attracted to, they would think I'm

a void and they're actually hardly replies. You know what you were never wants to see me? I'm like

but I don't want to see you. That doesn't mean I'm like that in general. So I think it's a misunderstanding of like I think all of those things only matter when you've got the foundation of are you attracted to each other and you want to be with each other? If you're attracted to each

some truth to the theory. But if the fundamentals aren't there then the theory doesn't explain

and can't undo the lack of attraction and I think that's underestimated in these series. You know I find that to be also like against spot on like I think that we're so quick

“to label somebody. Yeah that's why therapy in me I find to be”

a counterproductive and useless because you're having someone there who is like you know your cheerleader who's like egging you on like yes yes he's an avoided yes yes no content yes yes and it's like I guess because I'm I'm such a realist. Yeah the way I would see it is like well why can't it just be what it is which has made the person just isn't attracted to you? It doesn't want to be with you. It's a nice partner. Why does there have to be something more to it where

they now you build up this whole reason of why you're not together beyond what is just the fact. Yeah and like and I'd have a client like you know we were talking about the big age groups. Yeah I'd have a client he was like yeah he was like 48 years old. She's a 23 year old beautiful Swedish girl and he's just an average looking 48 year old. He went to his therapist like she's an avoiding. They went to sex therapy or you have to make her feel safe. It was her child.

I'm like bitch she's not a judge. I mean I can save you $10,000 of therapy and she doesn't want to have sex with you. Okay next and the story and he literally built this narrative that it's her childhood and she's got these attachments and she's like and then he's called her sleeping with so many other men. I'm like where are our sexual issues when it comes to other days? There's none.

“I think it comes down to the founding that you keep on saying like this book could be one page”

which is are you attracted to him? Is he attracted to you? Okay and end of story. Let's move on. He does help a lot. All of this rhetoric and jargon over like the most basic thing. Like all of this stuff like oh he's a narcissist. Oh she's an avoiding. Oh he's a no contact. He's pushing and pulling. I think it's all of this is just another way of saying you know what like if someone's into you they're going to want to like be with you and they're going to be nice to you. Yeah and

they're going to text you and they're going to call you like it's just maybe you that they're not interested in. Like and the other thing I would say is it's also not necessarily a disorder because this day and age is so much hookups going on. Yes that people are just not used to investing in people. They're not used to calling people regularly seeing them regularly texting and investing and turning it into a long-term relationship. People who've been married or in long-term relationships

are in long-term habits. So they might text a bit more call a bit more one commitment more because they're in that habit. Doesn't mean they're securely attached. They in that habit and other people will

ignore you all the time never want to see because they're in the hookup habit. So sometimes it's not

a disorder. It's just some people who have certain habits as well. And if you don't like the habit is it's sort of spending time money and energy analyzing them. Analyze yourself and ask yourself why are you here? I heard you say that. I heard you say that. I heard you on someone else's podcast talking about like looking at their like their background like what the how they were used to having relationships. Because if someone's used to having long-term relationships they're used to the

constant calling and the constantly getting together over the weekend and the constant communication. But if someone has like never had a relationship and they are only in the hookup mode like you said, yeah, they don't know what they don't know. They're not trained for the other way, you know what I mean? And that's a big problem with big cities. You'll say, if you go to a small city, let's say you grow up in Utah in a small city, yeah, you'll go back then everybody's married with kids.

And it's not because they just happen to find their soulmate. It's just that everybody in that environment is used to monotony. They're used to doing the same thing every day, eating the same thing, going to the same restaurants every day. They're not overstimulated. So when they meet a partner where it's very monotonous, very basic, very like doing the same thing again, again, they're totally okay with that life and it's beautiful that they found that. But if you speak to people in LA, New York,

Miami, Dubai's one of the big cities are used to different stimulation every single day. So those people get used to being stimulated a lot more. So they're not used to monotony. So long-term relationships get a little bit tricky for them. So what do people do, by the way, if they do live in a big city, and they want a monogamous relationship, and they want to find a kind of high valued person, but the culture and their life doesn't allow for that. Like that's because maybe they

found the right, they know they have the right person, but they don't have the habit yet.

“You have to practice the skills of monogamy. But not even more, how do you practice the skills”

even to get into monogamy? You have to avoid polygamy essentially. It's not so much what you do, it's what you don't do. Yeah, so like for example, if you really want to be in a fulfilling monogamous relationship, you have to get into the habit of rejecting alternatives. That doesn't just mean not going on other days, but it also means not following people that you're super attracted to, not watching porn all the time, you don't stimulate yourself with alternatives. So people who

have the skills of monogamy don't do anything special other than reject alternatives. They keep

rejected. It's a bit like people who have great bodies. They don't do anything amazing other

than reject really bad food. They reject it all the time. And then they just get into the

don't eat. They just don't have like, for example, I can tell me you don't eat the same food.

“I can do it. If we were to learn something. I know for a fact, if we were to rest on and stuff,”

I know we would eat different foods. Would you eat? I would eat sugary, carbee. Tell me, we're going to have dinner. What do you order for dinner? When we do, are we going to keep a

track of this? I can always tell. You would say things like, that's a bit too sweet for me,

or that's going to be too heavy for me. And stuff like that. And you would probably get full a bit quicker. Me, if you ate with me, you'd be like, there's a wild animal on my table because I want to help her because I just enjoy so much. So it's a habit thing. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah. That's a great analogy, right? Like, you learn, it's not about like what you do with what you don't do. What you don't do. So people in your shape just don't eat late at night,

really bad food. It's just not their habit. No, but you do it a lot like a wild animal. Like, you just get a lot of protein and vegetables. That's it. And you just don't do the behaviors that would lead to you losing your physique. Whereas people who lose their physique like myself and people like me, we do the bad things. It's not that we can't do the right things. It's just that we indulge in the bad things. So the hook of culture and Tinder and all these things were designed for

people to do the bad things. It was designed to give you so many alternatives. It was designed for you to get into short term relationships. It was designed to keep your options open. So it was giving

you the prototype of how to never be in a monotonous monography relationship. So, but that's

that is the dating culture. That is all dating apps. Like, how are people meeting people if it's not on these dating apps? It's really difficult. Unfortunately, you do have to stick. Yeah, almost have to play the game. It's a bit like, you know, government takes a taxi. You almost have to accept it. It's going to do. So it is really difficult. But what I would say is that listen to your gut. Like, if you feel like the apps or this person is making you behave in a way

that you're not comfortable with, say that they want hookups. They want three sons. They want all these things. And you're just going along with it because you think that's the culture. Listen to your no. Even if you don't know what you want, you always know what you don't want. And if a relationship is making you uncomfortable, stop that. Or just say what you would prefer. If they agree with you, perfect. If they don't know worries. But you can't get overly attached to the person at the

point where you're letting them lead you off a cliff. Which does happen a lot for a lot of women. I find for women in particular, I don't, I don't think women that do stick around a lot. Then I don't think that was their intention a lot of the girls. They're just like, I just didn't have a choice because he was like, put in pressure on me, he wanted pictures, he wanted this, he wanted that. And they also learn very quickly that the more you become like this and more men reward you,

the more attention they'll give you, the more likely they are to see you. And so they end up playing the game. But artificially because they're not really what they want. It's not what they want. But how is it when people like are you in your experience? People who are dating on these apps, are they finding love or is it just all hookups? They difficult. The only people that tend to have success are people who have both come out of long-term relationships. They tend to

have success because those people are, again, they're in the habit of relationships and they have them. And they are in the habit of loving somebody, they're also in the habit of checking on somebody. And they're also in the habit of renoxomy. They don't get the same joy of having four or five dates in a week. Would they get more joy of knowing one person's body really well, one person really well, in connecting with that one person a lot. So it works out best when two people have kind of

been in long-term relationships and they're kind of freshly single. Some men will be like, oh, I need more time. But the ones that are actually a bit more mature, they realise what is time. You're just wasting it. That's all it is. And those people tend to work better. If you're a person in those relationship habits, but you're talking to somebody who's not in relationship habits, it will be like pulling teeth a little bit. Yeah, on both ends. Yeah, it will be a little bit like pulling teeth. So

try it. If they've been single for a really long time, particularly men, it's a bit trickier.

“It's not impossible. It's just a bit trickier. I think that's, again, very loud. A lot of my”

guy friends who have been single forever, they're single forever. And the ones who have had

relationships, they're always the ones funny relationships. Yeah. And the weird thing, another thing

I took back in the book is people think that the more women are man's feet, so the better is in bed. Oh, no, no. I can tell you that's not true. And I can promise you now. Because I've worked with so many women and the number one feedback they give is the men that have been in relationships. They just make love. They're in a, they know a woman's body. They know it so well, where is the one-night stand man doesn't have repeat kind of, he doesn't have that repeat.

They've no, they've no idea what to do. No idea whatsoever. So they equate a amount of women with sexual quality when it's actually not, it's how much satisfaction you gave each woman. If you didn't give her a lot, you're not getting any feedback or you're not getting any experience from that. Yeah, I think that's a crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. It's so silly. I find a big trend now too is women, older women with younger men. Oh, yeah. I do not see it. I completely understand it as

“well, though. Because I think what happens, I think it only happens with successful women.”

Oh, yes. Yeah, I'm happy with someone who's like, you know, working out Walmart. Yeah, she's not dating the, you know, the 25-year-old model from her money, but yeah. Successful women have this one key ingredient that other women don't have. They can finally, especially if she's already had kids. And I completely understand it. And I'm also, I'm honest, I'm a bit, any use of these women. Because what happens when you have kids? Before you have

this. You are willing to compromise on who brings you the most fun and who you're most attracted to.

But once you have kids, a bit like Mariah Carey or Madonna, the moment you've had your kids and you're financially successful, you don't have to worry fees rich. You don't have to worry if you're going to give you kids. You just have to worry is you're going to make me happy and am I attracted to them. There's only two ingredients have to worry about. And there's millions of men lining up for that. They're like, oh my gosh, she's putting no pressure on me. And she's just fun

because you go back to being fun because there's no pressure on the man. So what happens is a lot, I think it only happens when you're successful. And when you've had kids, I think that also helps

“when you've had kids. And they're out the way and success is out the way. Then you can genuinely just”

a guy want to have a family in kids. A lot of men either have it or they, in their mind, this is a problem with the young men. They think that they've got until forever. They actually don't. But in their mind, they think they've got until forever. And they really, really don't have until forever. I think they have the same biological clock as women. They just don't realize it. Because as they age, what happens is if you're 40 years old as a man, you need a lot younger to still have

kids. And then the emotional gap increases. You don't meet young girls as much or you have to buy them or they, and they also, they're raised on TikTok and Snapchat. While you're a grown man with a business. So they gap in the intellectual intimacy increases so so much. So as they age, it becomes difficult to find other types of compatibility when you want to have kids. And you go a lot younger. That's a great point. Yeah. Because I see these men who are like 55, I'm not dating

or girl in her 40s. I want to have kids. I'm like, well, what's a woman in her 30s going to have been coming with you? She's going to be totally different, all women in her 20s. And so they're itching for that young woman. And when they want to have a family, they don't want it to be transactional. They want it to be genuine, but it's very difficult for a 55 year old to have a genuine connection with a 30-year-old. So they struggle as well. They just don't realize it.

You know, again, everything you say, I'm like, yes, yeah, I feel like, I feel like such a

“people, please don't think about that. I agree with everything. I'll give it, because I think”

when you hear snippets, I'm sure your audience might be people who've heard snippets, they're like, she's fully shit. But when you put it in contact, I promise you, I only got this understanding because I didn't follow the regular therapeutic advice. And I got to the crux of the problem. And I found it again and again and again, the same problems. And it's, we think we're so unique as humans with so much more similar than we really like. Oh, I think, I mean, by the way,

I also think like, I love, I'm very curious, and I'm a big observer, and I ask a million

besides this podcast. I literally would ask people a million personal questions. And I always

come to the scene, a conclusion with people. You know what I mean? Like, I think some of this isn't rocket science. It's not, it's a lot of it is just like having the wherewithal and honesty to like dig deep and figure out what the real truth is. People don't like the truth. Yeah, I mean, we just said, we don't like the truth. They like to, you know, put a lot of bows and lipstick around it. Yeah. But sometimes it's like, what it, it is, what it is. It is, and like we met two minutes

before the podcast. Yeah. And we're talking about childhood trauma in two seconds. Yes, you're saying to your team, do that. Why told you guys? Because it's just a quick away to connect. And when people are open and they are, what happens with people are open? They ask questions, because they don't mind be answering questions. Yeah. But people who are closed don't ask questions because they don't want people to know the real them. But the more you like yourself,

the more easy it is to be open. I find super private people when they sound so private and so private. What they're really saying is, I don't like me. And I don't want you guys to find out about me. But when you're an open person, you probably like you or you may turn to the parts of yourself

“that you don't like, you don't mind sharing it. Exactly. And I think that's a very good point.”

I mean, you do talk a lot in the book or you begin the book with like how low self-esteem is kind of like the, I guess the domino that needs to tell a lot of these problems. Yeah. How do people even have an assessment if they have low self-esteem? Is there a thing that people can look out for? Absolutely.

I think the first thing is when they ask themselves, how anxious are you? Because anxiety is a

great signal of how much you like yourself. And people who are super anxious, what happens is they don't make decisions fast. Low self-esteem people are super slow with everything. They do things slow. High self-esteem people are like, I don't care if you do it right or wrong, just do it fast. Just get to the point, do it. I need it at this time. Because they have a confidence that worst case scenario, do it fast or fix it.

Oh, if I low self-esteem people do things everything slowly. Everything is slow. So if then a bad relationship, it's to take some forever to make a decision. Bad work, take some forever. So they're super slow. They're poor decision makers in general. And I would say the biggest sign of low self-esteem is that you have no self-control at all. So you can't control yourself. So you don't control what you don't control, you don't control what you spend, you don't control

or what you do in a relationship, you lack self-control. The more self-control you can exhibit in your life, the more you start to respect yourself and the more you start to like yourself. It really does boil down to how much self-control you have. And in relationships, how you can figure out if you have high or low self-esteem, is you ask yourself if I did have high self-esteem, would I choose this

ask yourself them why you with them. And there are always the reason is low self-esteem. They either

don't think they have alternatives, or they just don't have the confidence to make an executive decision. Whereas people who make good decisions are really boils down to good and fast decisions.

“I remember seeing an interview with Jeff Bezos and they were asking him how he developed this.”

And he said, "I just know human nature, get things done fast, and everybody is happy with somebody who does things fast." Do things slow, and you're everything's ruined. So he said, "I know that people, and I, so true, people would rather have like terrible vitamins from Amazon than wait a month to get good vitamins from a good company." I'm the same, I just want it in the next day. So the more you realise that fast equates to high self-esteem, more that we realise,

get things done, get shit done, get your house done, get your body done, get whatever is, do things fast. It shows that you have a confidence in your decision making. Slow, slow people means that they overthink the problems, and the poor consequences, but they don't find the solutions. Right. Solution people think, "Okay fine, it's going to be problematic. I chose a bad flight, but I just need to get to the country. I don't care what the time that it heads off, and they get

to the point." So I would say that your speed in your decision making is a big indicator of your self-esteem. That's a great point again. I could just be so proud of you. And you have a little

“recording. That's why I want to ask you a question though that I've been remissed. I've been trying”

out, I wanted to ask this before, and we got sidetracked with all this stuff, because someone like, "You got, you were recently, I guess you would call it campsite." Can we just talk about what happened with you? Because I know that some people are going to be listening to this, and being curious about, isn't this the woman that got into? What happened to her, didn't she say that horrible thing? Yeah. Because what I was going to talk to about my next thing on my list was

adultery and all the things. So I wanted to talk about being cheated on. Yeah. What in God's name happened with you? And were you canceled? I am, well, I don't know what to talk about. I thought we both like bold and blunt. Yeah, absolutely. Perfect time for the afternoon. And luckily, I've just got the call, you know, I handled it in Dubai, and she's been convicted for defamation. I'll tell you what happened. She's been convicted, and, you know, we've got the connection

for defamation. But the only problem with def-- Dubai, they try and keep it private, but I can still say online and I can say what I need to say. But it wasn't true. Not at all. So I'll tell you what really happened. In 2021, I used to work as a teacher, and I used to be teaching all this time. And that's all I was doing. I was teaching psychology. And then recently, in about August time, some troll on the internet said, I released some

voice note, and it was me saying I'm going to get with your guy or your man on his wedding day, and on his birthday, and all this stuff. And when I first heard it, it was like, oh, I like, I don't need to worry about this. And then it went viral. And then I spoke to someone in a legal team, which is like, are you sure this is a-- like, you need to check it, because if you just say that, you need to be sure it's a-- so go check. So I went to the police event, because in Dubai,

they take these things a bit serious. And they said, no, no, you have to double check before you accuse that. So go ask everybody that you knew in 2021, because that's what it said. It said, it was in 2021. Everybody you knew and see if there's any truth to what's been said? It was five years ago. It was five years ago in 2021. Yeah, so it wasn't even recent. No, no, no. The voice it said, 2021. So I was like, okay, I'll ask everybody I worked with.

Maybe somebody knows what's going on. So I rang everybody I worked with. They're like, sorry, I don't have a clue what this is or anything. But one guy said to me, oh, this is actually your voice. This is true. And I said, what are you talking about? And you goes, yeah, this is true,

“because do you remember that some girl that I was dating called you? And this guy is a young guy,”

personal trainer. You can see him online as well. He is not married. He's not engaged. He's never

been married. Never been in a real serious relationship. And I was like, I'm not understanding. And he goes, do you remember that you were sending me some memes online? Because he was like a guy that was sleeping with lots of girls. Like, on those dating apps. And I lost his sentence of memes about like, you know, cheating on girls and how to get away with it or hiding your Tinder or whatever. It is. One of the girls that he was seeing called Lena Elfala, send your pictures so you can

add it in this bit. She was seeing him at the time very briefly. They weren't in a serious relationship. But his own court admission, he said, I wasn't in a serious relationship with that talk. She saw it and she called me. And she said, why are you sending him memes like that? Are you trying to suck his dick? And I said, excuse me, don't get rude. And you can hear me say, don't get rude. I said, if I wanted to, I could suck it and you don't me unbolt. Yeah. So if someone

says to me, are you trying to do this? I said, if I wanted to, I could do it on birthday, would it? And I spit that out. And I said, and he said, but, and could you still tell me that these girls

always harassive? And I was like, there's even been times and they cut that off where I was

going to say that I nobody wants your man. And I've never even responded to your man. They cut that tiny bit off. Just took that one sentence, put it on the internet and said, I was with the married man. And she's never been married. She's never been engaged. He's never been married and engaged. When I told him about this, she was recording me without my consent. I had no idea existed. He even said, I have a spoken touring five years. I have no idea what she's like. I only dated for a

It was so brief. So I had to go through the police and they have convicted her of defamation. But she recorded me without me knowing for six years, five, six years ago about a guy that she wasn't even

serious with. Took a tiny snippet of it, sent it to this troll and it went viral. And I've never

spoken to her or anything after this conversation. Never spoken to her ever. And she was not even with this guy. I was not with this guy. There was no motivation. She didn't even get paid to do this. She just did it up her own free will. And I don't even remember even speaking to her. So that's actually what happened. There's no public records about ever being married. I have boyfriend at the time. I actually message me and said, hey, why are you spreading rumors

that my girlfriend was engaged or married? I know she wasn't married. I'm saying that she wasn't. And he says, but I've seen a video saying that she was married and you're with her husband. She's never been married. I've been with her for five years. We've never who's this guy. So I even got her boyfriend. He was obviously too scared to ask her, but he asked me. And I even got I was at the screen shots as well. I'll make sure I send it to you. But it completely out of nowhere.

And it shook me out of so much because I had no idea that this person even existed. Let alone held onto that much animosity over a situation which wasn't even a real situation.

“It was just the only thing she can say is I was rude to her. And I was rude to her. If someone”

calls me and accuses me of wanting to do something that I don't want to do, I'll be like, excuse me. If I wanted to, I could do, and it's not being a bitch. It's not real. It's nothing like that. But she really wanted to just kind of ruin me. And she found the perfect troll to do it with. Who was the troll? He was some weirdo that does, you know, those gym people that try and insult everybody and be like, oh, this person's got this person who's a whole Instagram is attacking

people. And the guy, the guy behind this, even gave evidence on court that he spoke to the troll and spoke to him and he showed a video of that into because the troll is like, I've interviewed the man. I know everything. He showed the interview to court. And in the interview, he specifically said,

there was no affair. I was never married. I was never engaged and I was never with Sardia.

And he presented that in court. And that guy will still never release that video because because he'll always say, I've got interview with the married man, but he'll never release it or show with the married man is because if you check it, you can see his skull back down to 2020, 2021. He's never been married, never been engaged. There's been no girlfriend. It's never happened. He's even got videos of him talking about being single life and being online dating and

“stuff like that in the time frame that this troll guy said it was married. Can you believe that?”

That's the real story. That's the real story. That's the real story. You've been talking about that. I've tried, but the problem is, it doesn't go viral. I'll talk about it, but no one cares. So what will happen is I try and talk about it almost in every interview, but it just that bit, it just doesn't go viral. It just doesn't go anywhere on for time. Why? Because people who want to believe the negative don't care about the clarity.

It's not the same interest. So the people that would have made it go viral, those people are not interested in this and the people who didn't make it go viral, and didn't care about that, also don't care about the clarification that much. They would have still been watching you with it without this nonsense. Like me, I don't care. They're giving me who I actually liked your stuff. I liked you. I was kind of listening to the rumbling that was happening, but I didn't care

enough. And then you wouldn't care enough to post the truth. Because you don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. You don't care. I care now. You can try to make a clip. Yeah. You don't have to go viral, but now you're saying that like, you're right. Like,

is it confirmation bias, right? The trolls that make it go viral would never make the truth

go viral because that's not the interest. And the people who don't make the nonsense go viral will never make the truth go viral, not because they're anti it, but they're just not interested in gossip. They don't care. Yeah, gossip doesn't mean that much to them. Yeah. And I have that same problem. Like, gossip doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to share gossip or the clarification. Yeah. Like, even as you're talking about it. And like, okay, it's horrible. But like, you're right. Like,

if people don't, if people are not caring, they're not going to care about this. Yeah. Where's your script? Yeah. I'm screwed. No good work. Yeah. Because trolls really care about defaming.

“So they don't care about the clarification. So the troll kind of, that's why you get these kind of”

fitness influence and they bully people online. And like, oh, this is, and they pretend to be heroes. But they make the things go viral, but they don't make the clarification ever go viral, because the army behind it is a bunch of toxic people that don't care about that. You just said it. Yeah. The toxic people. The toxic people, the trolls and all of that stuff that takes so much glory in this. And I can totally understand because it's such a great story. It's the girl that

talks all about cheating and all about how you shouldn't cheat and all about monogamy. It's a relationship. It's a great, great story. It's a great come down. If I wasn't watching, if I wasn't me, I'd be like, oh my god, that you couldn't make this up. But unfortunately, just wasn't the truth. And when you did, and then they say, but you should take accountability. I was like, well, I didn't do it. Oh, I know. By the way, what I can't believe is how many

years ago this whole thing even happened? Yeah. Yeah, about a year as a girl. So when did this whole thing go viral, like seven months ago? Yeah, six or seven months ago. Yeah. So okay. So what has happened to your life in the last six or seven months? It did be cool. Because the thing is regardless of whether it's true or not, you don't want parents hearing you speak that way. You don't want anybody

show. I do do all these things. But I'm from a very conservative family. So that's just not how we talk. Like, that's just not what we say. And also, there's no convincing the trolls. And they're the ones that will attack you the most. So it was so much like all day, everyday emails, messages. And what will help me the most and made me kind of lose my faith in my work is, it's especially men feel like you help save my life. You help save my marriage. But now you're just

a horse. And I was like, I helped save your life. And you're worried about what I did 10 years ago, which I didn't even do. But even if I did. Even if I did. Even if I did. Let's say, even if I did have an affair with a married man, whatever it is, you guys saying that I helped you so much,

“you must have been a victim of a girl that's cheating on you. And so this happens in the real world.”

Whatever it is, I found it, I understood women being that way because they're even with the coal plagiarism. I couldn't believe how viral that went. I was like, in most offices these things happen,

you know, I never wondered if I'm glad that you just brought that out because I thought the same thing,

like, I couldn't believe, like, how viral it went and how that woman became, like, such she became, like ostracized from the world, from the world. And the worst thing that she was separated at that she was separated. She was separated and her husband was at the concert at the same time, and the world she was just absolutely hated. I hate it. I hate it. And I was just like, but you've forgiven your crusty husband that cheats on your entire life. You've forgiven so many people,

you're here to lie. Yeah, a ruined her life. I hope she can recover from it. But she would say, even in public people would attack her. Yeah. And I just remember to give it. Do you've got kids? Why are you guys all sharing it? Why are celebrities sharing it? Why is it becoming a meme? Like, that's just not nice at all. I feel like people get a lot of joy and other people. It's called shot and Freud. You heard a shot and Freud? No. Shot and Freud is when people find pleasure and other

people's misery. And what kind of people do that? I mean, it didn't. It wasn't specific. But it's a heroic shot and Freud is like a very well-known form. Yeah. And it's about, like, how people find, like, regular people, a human nature, is when people find joy in other people's memory. One thing I find a bit confusing is with the social media world, we've normalized all the footsteps towards cheating, but cheating is seen as the biggest thing in the world. So, when everybody

was sharing that thing in court, call play, I was like, yeah, but you've got people watching porn all day with this. Only fans are now available everywhere. People are watching it all and doing things just Tinder are available. There's even website where you can meet other married men. Why have we normalized everything else? But then then all of a sudden we act like we're so holy. It's only when it crosses the line of you act so holy, but all the other systems are in place to

create that kind of environment. So I just felt like, and I got 10% of what she got because at least I sign up to be online. So I sign up for this. So I've got a little bit of thickness from the right, because you have it because of what you do. But she's just a regular person. He's a regular man with their regular children. Having this overnight, I can't imagine what she went through.

And also, again, I guess I'm always in the, I'm in, like, the weeds of, like, why do people care

enough to, even, like, to even put themselves in a situation to share it or to talk about, like, if it's not happening to me in my life, I'm like moving on. And they're clipping and making

“so many videos on it. So happy about it. And I think it was more the happiness that really scared”

me. And I, and I think that, more so than anything than the actual backlash, I didn't know people with that much venom existed because I'm not capable, even though what she's done to me, I wouldn't be capable of, like, attacking her the way she did to me when I've done nothing to her. And not one thing. I didn't sleep with her husband, didn't sleep with her fiancee, didn't sleep with her boyfriend, didn't touch anything of her, but just had that one conversation she didn't

like. And she sees that opportunity to just kind of destroy me. She must have been watching me from afar, building all this resentment and hatred and then just doing something like that. And then cowardly deactivating all her socials. Oh, she did. Yeah, straight away, you won't find on any social now. She used to have socials all deactivated. If you're innocent and you're this, and the other thing I would say is that there was a witch hunt at that time against me,

would it, if it was true, wouldn't the real husband or wife at some point emerge? Because even

with the cochlea concert, they found his wife. They never found the wife and never found the husband.

I've given you her name. She's never come up. She's, so why is it that that, that's not become, because it's not true. Unfortunately for the trolls, it's not true. And the troll that released, it will never release the act showing to be with the husband, because the husband wasn't a real husband, he was not married, he wasn't engaged and he, he testified that into a court and actually sent a video of him telling him, there was no affair. This didn't happen. I was never

married or engaged and I was never with her, but he won't release it, unfortunately. Wow.

“Yeah, but that's how they make, that's how they make their money and their clips.”

So this is the problem of the call, count or culture, though. Yeah, it works. It truly does have a huge impact. I was on such a trajectory life was going so well, and like I had these live events and followers on Instagram were always increasing, the views were always great, and it just stops, and it stops overnight. It literally just stops. So it does work because the council, why would people not consume your content, if it's still

experience as well. If he says an opinion people don't like, even though he's so talented,

“they'll just completely disregard him. So it does happen. I think has he been canceled too?”

I don't think he has, but yeah, I don't think he'll ever be fully canceled, because he's too valuable to be fully canceled, but they'll try, they'll try. I mean, there's been a lot of other people that I've known who've done way worse things than a sentence that wasn't even accurate

six years ago, and they're not council. They're not, but the problem is, trolls are so loud,

and so I think it's on a general space like people that you work with or, you know, clients, they have no problem, but trolls are loud. So if they want to post a video, like, even you will get, oh my god, Jen, how can you work? And it could start, the comments will be loud. So as a content creator, you have to protect that, and I completely understand why if someone like you was like Southern really sorry, I don't want to post this or something,

I know you're very brave, but I can understand why the average person would be anxious to be associated. I completely understand. Right. Yeah. What, okay, Southern, not mad. I mean, you're not mad. How do you get it back? Or is there anything coming back? We're left to ask you. Yeah, I mean, how do you, I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, well, yeah, I mean, I'm just also flabbergasted, like the level and intensity of what you're dealing with.

Yeah, and for me, it's more the hatred from people that you don't know. Like, if you know someone you've hurt them, you've done something to them, I totally understand, but when it's that person, and also the troll online who I don't know

never seen him before in my life, I'd never seen or known anything about him. For them to work together,

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“Okay, so your book comes out. It works out. Are you going to be doing a lot of press for the book?”

Trying to, that's the goal, is to try and do as many podcasts as possible and do a bit of press. And I hope, like, you look, it's one of those books that's not fair to everybody, because it's tough. It's a bit, you know, it's that tough kind of advice, but I'm hoping when they read the book, it's like, okay, you know what, regardless of who won't. It was a great release to book. Yeah, yeah, if you really want the real fact, and I think the truth of like, actually the real, the real

meat on the bone. So to speak, I think it's, I think in terms of a relationship, it's fantastic. I want more questions for you, though. Please, yeah. Okay, this is a good segue into women empowerment, right? Or like women on women, like women too women. Yeah, women on women. My belief is that women empowerment is a lie. I think that personally, women are only empowering of other women when they're not when they don't feel threatened by the women. Yeah. Other women. And once they do feel threatened,

it's a whole different power dynamic. I know you also feel the same way. I do. And so can we talk about that,

“because I want, I want you, you've had some experience a little bit. A lot. What is going on with that?”

And why is it become, like, this is another huge, very trendy social media thing where it's like, oh, women love women, women are women for women. Unless you're compared, unless I see you as a competitor. Yeah, maybe not so much. I don't like each other. And it's okay, by the way. We're not actually designed, like we're not actually designed to like every woman on the planet. Right. But I also see this woman on women as no different to being like a racist or anything like that.

Why would I side with somebody more? Because I have one similarity to me. That's not how I brain functions. I'm a women supporting women. I'm like, no, I'm going to support who I believe in and who I like. Yeah. And who I am aligned with. That's just because they both, we both have, like, yeah, over time. And of a giant, you know. It makes any sense to me. That would be the same mindset, as a racist to me, like somebody who's just going to take the side of someone because it's

the same racism. I see it as just right and wrong, whoever's right and who I was wrong. And because

experience in life, in particular, when this happened. What's happening? I know what it is for to show people because my kid told me what a picnic is. It's a girl that wants a male approval

“at the expense of female approval. That's what they see as like you're studying women in the back”

to get male approval. But the reality, and I see this so many with female friendships as well, that they're not happy for each other all the time. They're not that kind to each other. You would sometimes like, I'll go on social media. And if I see a woman who's really conventionally attractive, they'll be very little kind of women empowering her. But if she's not conventionally attractive, so many comments being supportive of her supporter. And their trying is actually a way of just

inflating your people that you're not threatened by and deflating people that you are threatened by. It's okay to be equal in life where there is man, woman, whatever it is. And in the workplace, I really

found it. I always found like when I would go for a job interview and it was just women or when

the work about it was just women, there was a lot of bullying going on. I found that having men in let a little bit more of my career progressing. So when I used to hear these feminine movements saying men earn more than us and it is so there's so much patriarchy at work. How's it but work? I found women stopped me from progressing. In particular women for a stop, my progression. No women more, do I see women that will hate women than the workplace. They hate seeing other women succeed.

They hate seeing other women be glorified in any way. So I just found that this whole idea that men oppress women to just not be true. My personal expression is always come from women. So

“it's just not something I could have related to. So that's why I just never connected to that”

movement. And I don't think it's actually in any way shape of form true. I don't find any truth to this idea that men oppress women. I just think people oppress each other. And the more you have, the more jealous, I think jealousy oppresses people. When people are jealous or threatened or anything, I think that's where the oppression kicks in. But without that, people don't, it's not gender specific. It's not gender specific. That's how I would say it. I love women and or men equally,

depending based on a, basically how they treat me. Do you know, honestly, God, like, you know, you talk with this in the book too. Do you, like, this is a big thing for, like, knowing your own

self esteem in a way, right? Like, do you like people who like you? Simple as that. And I'm always like,

yes, I, if you like me, I'd like you 10 times more. She doesn't have to be anything else. And even like when I experience this thing online, the fact that I got so much hate from women and not them saying, oh, well, she wasn't the married one. Who's the married man? Let's go find him. Let's do a witch font on him. The fact that you were expecting me to, I'm the person, why is, why is your focus not on the man? Why aren't you witch hunting, to find the man? He's the one

“that cheated, but you're that you should not, no, no, let's focus on the man. If you were truly a girl's”

girl, you'd be like, well, it's where's the man? He's the one that did the vows. He's the one that's committed. He's the one that betrayed someone. Let's find him, but you're so happy to blame the woman. So, it's not true. And essentially, the sooner you realize in life that it's not true, the happier be because you'll have, and I really think it's important for women. So, so important to have male friends in your life. I really think as a woman, you will gain so much

from having friends in your life that you know for sure. Yes, okay, fine. They might be attracted to you or they might hit on you or whatever. So, isn't it better to have a friend that secretly loves

you than a friend that secretly hates you? Yeah, that's what I always say. By the way, again,

I'm a preach preach preach. I have a law, I'm a notorious for this. I have a lot of male friends. Yeah, a lot. You do too. Yeah, yeah. And it's not because I don't like women, but I feel like energy energetically wise. I get a law with men. And I don't think I do believe that men and women could be friends. Yeah, I really do because I have my friends. Yeah. And they're not hitting on me. They're not, they're not trying anything on me. They're going out, they're whatever it is. I find it's the people who have

a low self-esteem who can handle it well. Absolutely. I think you know, I've always had guy friends is we, I associate with people who have options. They don't become friends with me. They go and want to speak with Saudi for 10 years straight. Yeah. They don't care about Saudi. They've got another girl and another they have options. I don't be friends with people with low self-esteem and low alternatives. That's all it is. Donna women. So, because my friends have so many

options. They're on the least of their priorities. They're not thinking and dreaming of me. It's easy for me to have male friends. And also, I just find the energy that they bring. I never have to worry that they're going to be actually done back, serving threatened or don't want to invite me places or anything like that. And if they do have a give me that energy, I treat them the same way. I would just let it go in the story. Everything you're saying is so true though. Like the

whip, I mean, I have a lot, I've got, I would say a lot to be honest. I would say I have a good handful of really good quality women friends. And they are like my rider dies. But I don't have a ton. Me too. I don't have a ton. The main traits I have, the female friends I have, is they're happy women. They're genuinely happy with who they are. They're thinking of they're not competitive. But what I would say for, if you one thing I would say that, they always see it as a pick me if you have

a lot of male friends. My personal experience of being a woman that has friends, male friends, compared to women that don't, is we are so much less boy crazy. Like I have such a masculine

Or if I, you know, if I meet a new man and like, oh my god, he's a man, there's not this overexcitement because I speak to men every single day too. I speak to men every single day about so many areas of they're like, so for men is talking to me, I have zero different like excitement. Whereas if you speak to girls who don't have any male friends and don't have men in energy in their life, the moment they speak to a man, they're attached. It's just the fact that

a man is giving them a bit of attention. But when you have male friends who love you and check you know new and stuff, you can neutralize and select whereas when you don't have male friends, you just stick to whoever gives you a bit of attention. I actually think it's not good for you to not have any male friends whatsoever. That's a very good point. What about people that who have relationships and they don't like you being friend with men? And there's ways to handle that.

“And I think that when you have like for example in my partner and stuff, it's always so much”

transparency. There's always like the phone is on speaker, my friends are your friends.

I don't have these hidden friendships or anything like that. When you are somebody who's genuinely friends with men, you can manage that. How your husband or partner feels about it because your intentions are clean. When you're somebody who's not used to male friends, you don't have to handle that because you might have intentions that are not clean and your partner can pick up on it. So I think if they're making assumptions, they might just be insecure.

But there are ways to make people feel more secure, introducing them, talking openly in front of them. There's ways to make your partner feel a lot more secure. And if it really bothers them, then yes, of course, you might have the sacrifice of you. Because I've lost male friends because of that. Their female partner didn't feel comfortable, but I completely understand. I'm not going to be mad at them because people use to say to me, "Oh, you're going to have

male friends. They're going to leave you when they get married." But I'm happy for them. If that is the married and they're in a good relationship and she doesn't feel comfortable in a problem. I don't expect it for ever friendship, but I just like the fact that when we are friends, he's nice to me. He's not competitive. He's not jealous. It's a nice connection. Yes. I mean, it's amazing to me when, you know, it's like a very few and far between when I do

me and a woman who I really like and who's like not envious or jealous or threatened or any of the things or, I mean, I'm not saying it because I think I'm so great in anything that it's not about

my energy, it's about them. And what it always boils down to is how they perceive themselves.

Yeah. And how and what's going on in their life. It's never about the other person. You don't have to be amazing for someone to be jealous of you. Yeah, you do. You do. You do. You do. You go so horrible. Yeah. Because sometimes you don't have a client and she'll have like a friend of hers that she's deeply jealous of. And it'll be a simple thing like she might have just gone to a restaurant that's

near her house. And that will bother her for a very long time. So you don't have to have anything special about you to evoke jealousy out of a woman. But it's so easy to evoke jealousy out of some

“people. And unfortunately, that's why I try and have balanced or like even when I, you know,”

people always say, are you always talk to men or always? And I was like, but I like even my followers are equal men and women. It's 50 percent men, 50 percent women. I don't want an all female following. And that, if I see a content creator with an entirely female following, I know for a fact, she's not being honest. She's being, she's coating sugar coating, what she's saying. She's tiptoeing. She's probably lying to them, telling them men are trash and she's polarizing them.

She's feeding them something that's not good for them. But if you have an equal following, you're probably more balanced as a person. And I find it to stay on this whole trend right now. I find that to be something I'm seeing a lot of women who are bashing men at a very high level or at a very high pace right now. It's faster than it was. And you know, that's become very trendy and also like women, relationships with women, like best friends together, women,

women, like there's like this whole idea or this like, you know, like the antithesis of men. Like women being, you know, women's friendships are more important than romantic relationships are like men are not great. But what's happened a little bit in the backlash I've seen, some of these women who are like really kind of the center of this, then they found a guide.

“They're like, they're like, no, we're to be fair. I think my experience is that the more”

a woman hates a man, the more boy crazy truly is. Because what that really means is that those women that really hate men and think negatively of men, the moment they meet a normal guy who's

just normal, they think, oh, he's so different. He's so amazing. He's so much nicer than what I

thought. Whereas if you think men are not normal, you meet a normal guy, he's normal. Like, it doesn't stand out to you. So these girls that hate men, the moment they get attention from a man, he's had everything. They don't do the vetting process. When you are good friends with men, you are not being nice to you, it's not so out of the blue. A man just being a written person, somebody you enjoy the company of is not so out of the blue. But if you're so used to just being

around girls and you have one nice date with a guy, you don't realise that this is normal. That's how many are there nice? They're funny to talk to the easy. They put that man on a person and immediately attach to them. So the more they claim to be a girl's girl and decent a man, the more they truly haven't decent a man. And they're really, really, and you'll see that they immediately get pregnant by man. They immediately get married to a man. The moment a man asks, they're willing to do it.

isn't really enough. You need to actually have compatibility, you need up time. You have to

take some more for them to impress you. Absolutely. Yeah. Another one of your red flag questions.

“Okay. So another one you should ask is the body counts. Yes of how many people. So are you saying”

that the amount of people that the women sleep with versus the men sleep with can really make or break the relationship? It's worse for men and they don't realize this. Okay, totally. A men with a high body count is far worse for you than it is for a woman. And the reason I say this is because there's all this talk online, women pair bond with who they have sex with blah, blah, this, certainly other, which is true. I'm not denying that. But here's a switch. Men, women,

they only care about sex till a certain stage in a relationship and a certain age in their life and then they can, you know, take it or leave it. That this is just how women are designed. They can, especially with them, madly in love with a guy and they've been with it for many years,

they don't crave sex all day every day. Men crave sex for the rest of their life. That's just

how they design. They'll be 80 years old and still wanting sex. So when a man sleeps around a lot, what happens is he gets used to novelty so so much and the other thing that he gets used to is women with experience. He can't be compatible with a woman who's traditional, who's only done a bit of love making, who's not so adventurous. He gets used to certain amounts, certain type of sex. Once he gets used to that certain type of sex, he'll most can't reverse backwards. He can't go back

to a regular love making. He can't go back to, if you knew what men's desires were and I think this is where, if you interview an only fans go, we're really interesting. It's so perverse. It's so, it's really disgusting. There's very few women that go really far in their sexual fantasy. Men go really far in those sexual fantasy and they can and they're more they sleep around. Then the only women they become compatible with are sadistic kind of women. It takes a certain

type of woman to match that kind of man's sexual desires. Usually those women are super narcissistic, they're super detached, they're a little bit like they're using him, they're not the regular healthy woman. Whereas women who might slept around a lot, if they're over that stage in their life and they're with a regular guy, they're okay with that. They're actually

fine with that. If you never want to have sex again perfect mean to, I've had so much, I don't want

it again. For a man, if he's used to that, that's all he'll ever want and that's all he'll ever become compatible with. The other reason it's so dangerous for them is women get to choose children. They don't get to choose that so much. We decide if we take precautions, we decide if we have an abortion, we decide all of that stuff. You don't really decide that. So we decide if you become a father. You don't always decide that. So you're taking far more of a risk when you get

so used short-term relationships, so used to from a kind of women, so used to women that are a different kind of woman than the regular traditional woman who wants to get married and have kids in that kind of way. That you're going to be compatible with a woman that you're not going to

“be able to have a household with. And that's why you can't really reverse that desire”

whereas women who've had a high body count, you'll see it all the time with these only fan's girls. They go find Jesus and the next day they're married engaged and they're cooking and in their house with their dog. Whereas you speak to a man who's slept with a lots and lots of girls, his desires get worse and worse and worse, they get insidious over time and he or he might settle down with the woman, but his erection won't work, his arousal won't work.

It's literally, it slows down in them. So many women have been with men that slept with so many girls over the years that the engagement and arousal is affected. Really? Yeah, they're taking Viagra like 27 years old because it's been so affected by oversaturation. Really? And novelty. So they can't get the arousal because they need novelty and excitement to get the arousal now. So you'll see guys as long as 27 years old, 26 years old, taking Viagra.

Take a young boy, take a Viagra because they either step with too many women or watch too much born and their body just can't react to the same woman again and again. They need so they have to take something. Think about what that does to your sexual confidence if you're young man and you can't get an arousal. So it's so dangerous to men and this idea that it makes you

“mask in and makes it the best way to be good, as intimately as a man, is to have a good healthy”

relationship with a woman who gives you feedback, gives you constant feedback and you know exactly how our body works and chances are it will be the same for every woman. It's pretty similar. That love make it whatever it is. But if you or a guy that goes from one go to another to another gets no feedback, you're not going to be good at it. Secondly, you're not going to be your arousal is going to be affected and women don't like men that have to rely on Viagra who really need

a lot of stimulation to get women hate that. They feel so unattractive with a man like that. Whereas if you're a guy that's strong, ready, can know what he's doing, they feel super attractive. So you kill your own sexual confidence when you kill your arousal mechanisms and that really gets destroyed by too much novelty. Wow. Yeah. So it's actually better to have a less body count man. Better to. I'm not saying don't have sex. No. I do it. No problem.

What you want. But in the confines of a relationship, you'll get far more experience than this one nightstand methodology that people use. I'm not saying it's good for women. I'm not in any way implying it's good for women. But why I'm implying is that the world we live in is we don't live in this world where this woman is going to have this peer bond. It's going to be broke. There

skills and fall in love with her because of that alone. Men fall in love with that. They'll deny it

and say no, no, no, that's just for a short term. Ask any man who's had the most chokehold over him. It will be the girl that he had the best sex with. She might be a bitch to him. You'll look at these guys that are getting treated so badly by women. Why are you with her? And it's usually they like the intimacy. So intimacy means it gets men gripped whether they like it or not. And if you're getting used to that kind of girl, she's going to have you on a chokehold. Whereas for women, it's like

okay, fine, he might not be the best, but he's got a nice dog, he's got a nice house. Oh, it's okay, you know? So they'll compromise on that area. Men, they struggle to compromise because even if they

“mentally compromise, they body can't. No, I think that's actually another again. Like,”

again, I should have a recording here. Yes, yes. Because they're men that I know who are just they can't, they can't leave a bad relationship. It's because of that. It's not because it's like a a trimmable. Yeah, it's because they're like, it's like because they're so addicted to them, sexually. Yeah, every guy that you know is in a toxic relationship can't go no, go, even though she's bad to him, abuses him, cheats an him, it's the sex that's got them addicted to it. So if you're saying

that women with high body can't get a man, yes, she can, because she can get you addicted far faster than a traditional woman that makes you wait, doesn't know the skills, doesn't know what you were like, that girl can't get you addicted. Whereas that girl who's been with a hundred guys in a night and filmed it on only fans, she can get you addicted like that. A hundred percent. And then she'll get baptised and they get married. Exactly. But isn't women cheap more than men?

They do. And I think they realize it. Not with all men. There are some men that prolific

cheaters and they always end up with women. You're a little bit face-face for it. But the reason

why a lot of women cheats is because I was, again, when I wrote this, when I first became a therapist, I thought for a woman to cheat, the man has to be the worst man in the world. She was left with no choice and poor girl, like how did she get there? Because I was kind of the zeitgeist. People make you feel like she's a victim when she's a cheater. She must have been so neglected. That's never what I found. What I found is that it's the women with men that are so submissive, that are so

people pleasing, that are so lacking masculinity, that they're not dominant. And because he's not dominant, she's not attracted anymore. And therefore, and they also know unconsciously, he's a type of guy. If I did she, he'd stay. There's an unconscious like he would stay. So it's those types of men that get cheaters on so much. And because they're creating a culture of submissive men, women as a like kind of as an each, they you're getting them cheats in more. But if you go to cultures where

the men are super, super masculine and super, super strong, the women in those cultures don't cheat. It's only where the men are so weak and they're so feminine and they're so emotional. And you know, though all those skills might be nice outside of the bedroom, but they don't translate into the bedroom. So the woman doesn't feel feminine around him. And therefore, she doesn't feel sexy. And so those women, it's not this big emotional hole. A lot of the time he's very emotionally

there for her. It's this dominance hole. He's not dominant. How about women who are dominant, like in terms of women who have masculinity because they're strong personalities, like give a strong personality, have a strong personality, would that be considered very masculine? I think I'm masculine without realising it. And I think I hide it well because you don't really look very feminine. Like yourself, but I think I have a lot of masculine energy. Now the cure to that is

“you have to be with a man that's also masculine. The way I kind of save myself is I'm still quite”

very nurturing. And I still have that nurturing element to me. But if I didn't have that nurturing element, that comes from like culture and background and all that stuff. But if I didn't have that nurturing element, I'd definitely bulldozer over every guy. But I'm very very nurturing and like, you know, very traditional in terms of like, I don't mind cooking, cleaning. That doesn't bother me in any way, shape or form. But women that are super masculine and very non-nurturing,

they attract very feminine men. They attract really kind of passive men. So the more like, you know, because this kind of culture is teaching women to be as masculine as possible. No problem. You can be that girl that says, fuck you. I'm not cooking. I'm not cleaning. I'm not looking after you. I'm not having kids. I'm not doing anything and you should just listen to me. No problem. You can be that girl, but you can attract a very weak man. No strong loving masculine man is

going to like that. So you have to realize that in the process of becoming overly strong and non-nurturing, you're going to attract a more weak man. And you'll be submissive and accepted, but will you truly be attracted to him in the long run? You know, so just bear that mind. Exactly.

“Well, I think this is for people who are very strong personality. You know, I'm a strong personality too,”

but I think I'm very like nurturing also. So it kind of counter-balances the

and you always want to fix, you always like kids. So once I never, you know, I never was that

person who was like, oh, I must have two kids in the white pick of fantasy and all the things, but I also knew that if I didn't have kids, I would probably regret it in my life. And so I didn't want to be an old mom and all the things. So I kind of am traditional that way. Yeah, very traditionally. I wouldn't, I couldn't imagine myself not having kids. And how do you manage the work life balance? I don't believe in working. I think that's also

cycles of your life you are really very myopic and what you're doing and like there's times.

Like, sometimes I'm like super dialed into work and then other times that they'd be more dialed into, like when my kids were really, really small, I had to like dial back my career a little lot because I wouldn't be available around. And then, you know, not that soon after, like, I didn't wait that long. But I went back. I mean, it's very, very hard. And do you, are you happy as a working mom or does that make you happy? Or would you like to just

“be a mom at some stage? What makes you happy? I don't know, no, no, no. Like, I think that I was”

I was born. Yeah. My DNA doesn't allow me to slow down or stop. Like, that's just not who I am. Like, I was just having this conversation with someone before you came here today on another podcast. Is that I was, I'm built to be super driven and ambitious on a bad day. Like, like, I can't slow down even in my head. So even if I wanted to, I don't have the wherewithal. Yeah. Like, but since I was like six, I was extremely tenacious. I was extremely like ambitious. I was

extremely curious. Curiosity has like been like the gateway drug for everything for me. Because I want to know everything and want to know everything about you. And it comes from like a genuine place. Yeah. So like, I'm all, I get super into something and I'd like want to see it through and fall through. And I like, I like the thrill of the chase. So it wouldn't work for you. No, it wouldn't work. And you wouldn't be as good as, are you a better mom when you're happy?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't work. I mean, like, I don't know what to do with myself. I mean, I don't have 97 plates in there. Like when I don't have that much going on, I actually see my serotonin. Like, I get depressed. Yeah. Like, I need to have, and then I complain that I have too much going on. But then if I don't have enough going on, then I'm also don't like it. But it's human nature. We're designed to be busy and problem solving. And if we're not,

it's just, and I know it sounds a bit judgmental, but the people that don't problem solve enough,

they look for problems. And that's the way I always say that. So you don't have enough going on,

if you say people like what happened to you. Yeah. If that girl had enough going on in her life, she would be too busy to be preoccupied with what really you. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, it's just too, so if you have a busy life, literally what people say and do doesn't affect you,

“exactly. Yeah. So that's why it's so important to be, have some kind of purpose. I don't know”

it's hard, because even when I'm slow down with the cancellation and stuff, I'm finding it, like, really difficult. It's very difficult. It's just like, it's not who you want. And I don't respect myself when I'm just scrolling and doing nonsense. So that's the thing. Like, I don't believe in balance. Yeah. I think that's like a load of shit. I also think that when you ask me earlier, you're like, oh, you know, about you coming on here and blah, blah, blah, blah, and what people are

going to say and think and whatever, if you're like, like you said, I'm too busy to be worrying about what this person says and that person's like, I'm just going to be me and do me and whoever likes it great and they don't, that's good too. They'll find they'll find their tribe. Because even when I see some videos about me, they're like 45 minutes long and I'm like, 45 minutes. I can't do what, I know, I have so many views. I'm like, I want to see it. You know what, because people

like, this isn't the thing when people are, when they don't have enough shit and they get joy out of looking at someone's demise and that's when I point you. That's short and sorry. Is it so strange, isn't it? You asked me earlier. What kind of person is that? Is people who don't, who are, who have low self esteem, who don't have, they don't, they don't either have enough, or they don't have enough going on in their life or a combination of both. But like,

honestly, people, I know they're too busy to busy because even when I was on the plane here and I was

watching all these wheelhouse, I was like, oh, finally, I get to watch all this nonsense. But I don't

get to watch it in my real life because I feel almost a guilt of watching nonsense. Yeah, I get I don't watch myself. I can't watch it in the real world because I'm like, can't sit here, I was a grown woman watching love. I'm a grown woman. Yeah, I can't do that. I won't watch those shows. But when I was in the plane and stuck, I was like, oh, let me just put on some reality now because I feel a guilt when I watch nonsense. I feel like you could be doing so much better.

So then that's just reality, which is harmless. Imagine watching gossip all day, what that must do to your right. Exactly. I find like, there's a time in place to have like that, like, gossipy TV. It can like, it turns your brain off and all the other things. But like, I don't like it myself. I don't find that to be valuable. I couldn't pick the waves spending my time. I'd rather get a massage. I'd rather like go on my sauna. I'd rather listen to a

TED talk. I would rather do something that's something a little better. This is why like your podcast and teaching people to be successful is so important because one thing I would say before I was online, my job was teaching psychology and colleges and we were paid like $3,000 a month.

“That's what teachers get paid. And that's what all of us were. So we had so much time to be”

bored and we'd have this mentality that successful people are mean. Successful people are bad. When I started working with more and more successful people, the main thing I find with them is they lack jealousy. They're all being incapable of it. Anything that shouldn't be true.

succeeding and they're like, oh, yeah, take this. Oh, by the way, I know somebody who can do this

and there's somebody in that agency and they see helping people as so normal and they don't see they're just, there's not many people they're jealous of. Whereas when you are around people of love and it's why I think income is really important. When you're around, low income people, they're jealous of everybody. Well, that's what happens. And then you are a combination of the five

“people around you the most, right? So that's why it's very important to pick your people very,”

very, that's very, like, pick the people who surround you. But I also think to your point when you're like a successful person when in any realm, I think again, it becomes about time. I don't have time to sit here and be jealous of you. Also, if someone has what I want, like if I, if I really like what you have, like, I would rather, I'm so curious. I'd rather find out how you got it and then do those things to get it because, again, it's like the growth amount. It's like, it's either you're

going to be that, what's that called? And it's, it's either like, that might not fix my advice, I'm going to fix it. It's not about a mindset. It's actually about, like, you can either have the mindset of like, there's like, there's like this little to be going around or a lot to go around. Abundance. Abundance. Yeah. That's the world. Thank you. I'm scared to do your abundance. That's it. I'm not about a scarcity. Even like, I'm not like, I've had people here who've been,

even like out in the world, you know, like, I've with super models, whatever. I'm never jealous.

Like, I think to myself, great. They have that. Well, I have this. You know what I mean? Like, it doesn't change myself this team. Jellysie is really a symptom of depression because I remember when I was going through the cancellation, I was jealous of people who haven't been cancelled. I'm like, oh my god, I wish I could go back in time and I wish, and I finally started experiencing jealousy. And what I really experience is seeing myself and out of body because I was like,

maybe if I did see this random girl come out of nowhere and then automatically she's on all these podcasts and everything's growing for her. Maybe I would be the same back. Actually, now I could finally step back because of the three-time and realize I can understand that perspective. So, jealousy is a symptom that you're not, you're not for feeling your potential in life. You take whoever you're jealous of and figure out how they did it rather than just constantly bashing them. Yeah,

it's not good for you. Exactly. So then let me, I wanted to ask you even earlier about the so who, who did you marry? What kind of guy is he? He's a good person. That's a main thing I would say. There's flaws in every single man, but one thing I remember standing out with him is like, I, you know, this work on masculinity, my main issue was finding people that were either so like in awe and they might just be so happy and just be so people pleasing, or they're so toxic,

they were just so on the other end. There was a really hard to find a balance. And I think what I

“found really respected and what I respected in him is that he liked who he was. That's what it”

wore down to. He just liked the man he was. So he liked the decisions he makes, he likes everything, and if you're nice to him, amazing. If you're not nice to him, he can't accept that. And because I was still very insecure, and like all of these types of things in the beginning out fight, and all this stuff, it was not like this. Oh, please be with me no matter what, it was like, if you're not going to be nice to me, this is looking to work. And when I realise that people who

like themselves make you a better person, because they make you behave better, in order to be in their

life, I thought in his influence, I'm always going to stay a nice, a better person. And unfortunately,

because he's not on social media, I think if he was on social media a bit more, he probably could have balanced me out a bit more, because I'm still quite reactive, and I still can get annoyed, and I can do all of these things, whereas if I kind of followed his lead more, he just doesn't react to anything, and that would have helped me a bit. If I wasn't so reactive, and I wasn't like so ballsy, and I was a little bit more played the game, maybe I wouldn't attract so much negativity.

So I have to take accountability for all of you. When did you do that to attract negativity,

“you're a bisping honest? When did you do that was negative? I think even when this person was attacking”

me, I was like, cursing him back, because I was like, what are you talking about? Like, who are you talking about? Oh, you're fighting there, and there's no need, because with these people, you can't compete with how low they can go, whereas you'll have a limit, and you'll be like, this is not worth my time, they don't have a limit, that is all they'll do. So it's just a waste of your energy, there was no need to respond or talk or anything, or there was just no need,

it just makes it worse for you. Yeah, it's 100% worse for you. Oh no, it's terrible for me. No, it's okay, these things happen, I don't know what no plan is, but it's not going to happen, it's going to have to, it's going to have to, like, find its balance, because I don't so, I think it's just, and my only thing is it would be a shame if I didn't come back completely, because I think the information is quite important, and it's quite helpful, and most people who are giving advice aren't

actually working with people daily, so they'll just, you know, chat GBTS script, and then they'll read it off the script, and people like, oh yeah, yeah, and it's just up, but that's clearly AI, that you're just, or like, the person's just chatting with you to just go viral. So I like to land from people who, like, if they've had a successful business or if they've worked really hard or whatever, I need to know from you experience rather than you just trying to go viral.

100% you're talking from practical experience. Yeah, and that's the only reason I got this knowledge is from working with people, so it would be a shame to not give the information again. I totally agree with it. Well, I got more questions for you. Oh, I'm sorry I'm boring here.

Okay, the first question I have for you. Let's talk with the one that's very, very popular. Love bombing.

Yeah. Is this a real thing? No, but you know me, I say no to everything. I don't know what to do with that sort of like. I like to hear the counter argument. It's a thing. If you can fool for somebody who immediately wants to marry you, immediately sharing you with gifts, immediately doing all of the things, and you don't stop and think, you don't even know me enough to do all of this. Instead, you think, oh, I bet the love of my life, that's something is wrong in you. If somebody came to me

and started immediately wanting to marry me, immediately wanting to be showing me, it's just immediately pushing, pushing forward forward. If I had loads of the steam and there's been time to my life where that definitely would work. If I had loads of the steam and I'm not used to attention, I'm dying to be loved, of course, that's going to work on me. But if you're an adult and you are rational, you say, hey, listen, like you don't know me enough to be this attached.

So when you start a like being a little bit more secure in yourself and not desperately needing

“a home, you won't fall for these things. But when you are low stuff and I've been there and I think”

lots of people have been there when you're feeling so low and someone can make you feel good, you're more like susceptible to it. So you just have to see love bombing, the same way you see thieves, stealing cars, every, there's going to be thieves everywhere. You just lock your doors, you make sure you say, there's going to be guys that will love bomb, the girls that love bomb, you just lock your doors a little bit by saying, hey, like, are you sure you're just not rushing

this or you, is everything okay? You question the person has overly attached you too soon, because they're usually hiding something. When does this happen though, normally? Because sometimes

you can like, you can convince yourself that it was like love at first sight or that you guys

just had a really great connection and it was like the real thing, when is that not the case and when is it love bombing? I think it can be confusing. Hey, it takes conflict for you to know the difference. People are great in the beginning, but how you handle conflict will let you know if it's actually a connection or if it was just a facade. So let's say, for example, everything's

“going great, everything's amazing. You have some like disagreement and they totally go so they”

disappear. Then you know that it's probably not real. But if it's when you have conflict and you can still push through, then chances are you've got a real connection there. So when there's conflict, but I would say be careful of people who are like still hurt from a previous relationship, because they love bomb the most. People who are just coming out of a relationship just got out of a marriage and just got out, they want to maybe get back at an X, they maybe want to win the competition,

so they might take somebody vulnerable and be like, let's just pick a get married and they accelerate this new person's connection to match the level of attachment they already have to somebody else. They're trying to just balance out. So just be mindful if a man has just come out of a situation, wants to make somebody jealous, those people can sometimes love bomb. How long is the love bomb last? As soon as there's conflict or if they are using you to get over somebody else,

as soon as they're healed from that other situation, they'll disappear from you. But it would say conflict is a big solution, whether it's genuinely they're just attracted to you and love you so much or if they love bombing you, a genuine attraction can happen where it feels like love bombing, but what the difference will be is when you have conflict, they want to get through it, they take accountability, you both work, you come out stronger, but love bombers, as soon as

there's a conflict, they kind of disappear. What if we're called dependence? Yeah,

codependence occurs par more than we realize, it's a lot of it is, you know, if you've never been

single, it's very difficult for you to be alone. So you kind of your identity comes from that relationship now. People with codependency, what happens is they go from relationship to relationship, they find it very difficult and usually what a how where it comes from is they either had just maybe they lost a parent, didn't have one parent, there wasn't that stability, particularly with fathers. So women that have that codependency, maybe their father wasn't around. And what happens is

when you do have a father, or a male figure in your life, you always feel somewhat safe, like

“you're all good, but when you don't have a father and then you have to be single, that”

be biological urge from man comes back. So the end-up just going into relationship to relationship, and they might adjust the personality to fix that, or adjust the identity to fix the new person, and they don't know who they truly want and who they truly are. So codependency, the biggest sign is going from relationship to relationship, and struggling to be single. And you'll say, oh, I don't know how it happened, but really how it happened is you went

as you weren't selective, you were just keep going into relationship to after relationship. Men do too, right? Men do. Men a lot. Men a bit more. Men a more codependent. Men more. One thing I find is particularly as people age, women can get to 35 onwards. And if they're single, they're actually okay. Men, if they get divorced or if they're separated from a woman, they physically can't be single. They physically can't do it. I think they just stay. I don't know what it is. I think we are

very lucky in a sense that as women, you can draw a lot of your happiness from your kids, like so much from your kids, and the affection as well, that hits the spot. And from your family, friends, everything. We got good connections where we don't feel completely incomplete without a man. Men, there's very few people that they're totally connected to, that they'll call on a regular basis. They'll see and just have dinner with. Their kids, they love their kids, but the impact of

kissing them and hugging them is not the same as it does to a woman. So I think they draw

I can see, I see that. I can see men who are co-dependent and like the more so than the women.

“Way more. And especially even if you speak to widows, they've got no desire to marry again.”

Men will literally start itching. The moment they can't be, I don't think they're designed to be without wives. If they start to self-destruct, they start to do addictions and bad habits. So you'll meet these men who are perpetually single. And you look at the life and it's very chaotic. Or they've got dark secrets, maybe they're paying for only fans and doing or they're doing something done. They might look like they've got nothing wrong, but something's dark is going on in their

life behind clothing. I know that's happening. They're single for too long. It doesn't make sense. Because testosterone is to suffering. You need women. Yeah. So if they're single for way too long and yet they're not even hooking up or when they do get with a girl, they're not initiating and they're not, because one of the signs in the, I talk about in the book is there's a lot of men that don't initiate sex anymore. And they just don't, they deprive their wife of sex and she's

always confused. And of course that can be, they might be having an affair, but a lot of the time

it's, there's a, there's a dark and darkness, but usually pornography that is making them immune to real sex. So I would say that when a men or single, there's something, it's not good for them. They're either going to become lonely or they're going to become addicted to something. Addiction is the main thing. Our coping mechanism is just, we can go for lunch on Fridays and they're getting the sign and we're like, oh, I'm so good. Like, yeah, a no problem for them.

That means nothing to them. Like going for lunch with their friend is like nothing to them. What they need is sexual or female connection and that's where they go down a quite a dot path.

“That's why I don't recommend it for them. Amazing. Yeah. What else have I not asked you that I have to ask you?”

No, you've done great. I feel like I've talked too much. We're talking too much. It's only been, there's only been what? Two hours? Yeah. Okay, that's not that long. I can't really find hours. I feel, oh, I want to make sure I didn't. I wanted to ask you something. Hold on. Hold on. You said one of your questions for the red flag indicators is

ask someone if they've always been attractive. Yeah. Because I find that people get annoyed by this,

but I actually think pretty privilege. There is ugly privilege and people don't realize that. Yeah, there is ugly privilege. And what ugly privilege is this? Like when you're a beautiful woman or you look after yourself or whatever, automatically people are less sympathetic than you realize. Like, yes, men give you privilege. Right? No problem. Men will give you privilege. But there will be a whole host of men that will be meaner to you because you're attractive. Whereas when you're neutral or you're

not attractive, you might not get privileged, but you won't get abuse. You'll just be left alone. Yeah. Whereas pretty girls might get a little bit more pretty privilege from men, but they get a lot of abuse from men. But also the main thing that happens with pretty girls is they get a lot more abuse from women. Women will automatically assume that she's the culprit. She can't be the victim. Whereas if you take a woman who is less attractive,

automatically she's a victim, automatically she must be innocent, automatically it can't be her fault. And so especially with other women and we as women spend more time with other women. So we actually get less of a privilege than people think. So I would say like, pretty privilege is not as easiest people think. And the other thing I would say is that when a woman is really pretty and she's had a lot of male attention, she tends to be a lot more insecure and then people realize. And her

reason for being insecure is she's always noticed that, you know, when she goes to gym a guy or

start hitting on her, when she asks for business ideas, he'll start turning it sexual. Everything will revolve around that. So she starts to think, this is what men are. They're just so overly sexualized. So when she has a husband or boyfriend, she can get nervous when he's got a new assistant or nervous when he's joined a new gym or she just starts to project her own experiences onto this guy. So he tends to be a lot more insecure. This is like the haily up there.

The haily effect, right? But it isn't that when you think that people who are physically more attracted, people who are physically more attractive, people assume that they are smarter than they

“are and their character and morals are better. I think that only applies to men. I really think”

that haily affect only applies to women. I think it's true. I would imagine if I saw a picture of Pam Anderson, I'm not going to think she's smart and nice. I agree. I think if it's like, if it's a man who's really attractive. Like Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy. Yeah. Lots of other vusters I've met are founders who raise a lot of money because who are good looking. Yeah. They assume that because they're good looking. Success that they are more intelligent that they are better moral grounds that they're bored.

This, this, this, and this. Yeah. I think that, and that's like logical. I think it really applies to men. I think the moment you see an attractive man, you think that he gets what he wants in life. That's a good trait. But I think when you see attractive woman, you're like she gets what she wants in life. She must be a bitch. Yeah. She must be entitled. Yeah. So I think she must be a slut. She must be a slut. I always think about what Pam Anderson's life must have been like for her. Like throughout all those years

where there was no Instagram. There was no competition. She was the only idol. I don't believe she could get through life. I can't imagine the amount of, yeah, abuse. She must have suffered from men just trying to be with her and women just probably not liking her in so many ways.

beautiful girl, they might be influenced by her. They might want to imitate her. That's why influences do so well with brand deals and stuff. And they do really great. But I don't think

“they assume positive things. I think they might assume negative things. I think they'll assume”

she's vain or arrogant. So I think the haily effect is a little bit more on the men's side than it is on the women's side. Yeah. I think that's actually true. And the brand deals for those girls are usually beauty brands. Beauty brands people are aspirational. Yeah. I just take that. If I use that cream, I would look like her. You're not really going to be taking, you know what I mean? Life advice? Yeah. Yeah. And you won't take serious advice. I think because I wear makeup and

you know, I'm always dolled up. It was so difficult for them to take life advice from somebody

who looks a bit like a makeup influence. Yeah. So they were like, we can't trust what she says.

“Yeah. It's almost like we can't trust it. I can't be both. You can't be both. Whereas I think”

if they would be like, and this is not in a bad way, but like somebody like Mel Robbins or Estuproar, because they look like they learn a lot and they've experienced a lot automatically what they say, even if I said the same thing, it wouldn't, it wouldn't land. Yeah. So I think, unfortunately, because I am such a makeup girl, it does kind of reduce the credibility too. Right. We're not into to both. It's even that much harder to prove yourself. Yes, that much harder, unfortunately.

Well, what can you do? I mean, I think you're, I think you keep on being beautiful. I think you're going to talk to you, nothing. You guys saw this book as called Red Flags. It is so good. It's what your therapist forgot to tell you. Ten questions for your therapist to ask you if you are going, and or if you're in a relationship, you can be asking your partner. It is super valuable.

“It is so practical. That's what I love about. So practical. Everything you say is like,”

honest and practical, and which is why I'm annoyed that this has happened to you. Oh,

thank you. But no, you're, it's amazing. So if you want to find Saudi, well, you can buy a book,

would also follow her on Instagram, TikTok, and all the things, right? Perfect. Thank you, guys so much for having me. This is amazing. I love talking to women. I forget how much I'm not. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you. Really? I love to. Okay, I want to clip that. Okay, it's just one of my, and I've done so many. I've done so many, so refreshing. So thank you so much for having me. Oh my god, I wish you come back. Of course. Of course. Oh my gosh, come back. My,

my, on a, my, I want to go on, but I see you're like, basically, like, stuck with editor. Yeah, he's, like,

moving around. He's like, getting his car keys. All right, I'll see you guys later. Bye.