Episode 05: Restricted Area

Guarantee human.

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast "Doubt,"

the case of Lucy Letvey, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? - Address has been made to fist.

- The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed. - What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

“- Oh my God, I think she might be innocent.”

Listen to "Doubt," the case of Lucy Letvey, on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Clayton Eckard, in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's "The Bachelor."

- But here's the thing. Bachelor fans hated him.

- If I could press a button and rewind it all I would.

- That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom. (upbeat music) - The media is here, this case has gone viral. - The dating contract.

- Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. - This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. - I'm Stephanie Young, listen to "Love Trap" on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

- I'm Nancy Glass, host of the "Bird of Guild" season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.

“Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim”

of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. - I was a monster. - Listen to "Bird of Guild" season 2

on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Hey, tender for listeners, we wanna hear from you. We just launched a survey and wanna know about your favorite shows, your murder quests,

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Thanks again, now here's the show. - Hi, Strange, is released every Friday and brought to you absolutely free. But, we're at free listening, exclusive bonuses, and early access to episodes,

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Listener discretion is advised. News articles once again mentioned that talk about alien spacecraft and subsequent articles in national magazines quoted unnamed sources about things of alien origin,

flying in Nevada. - I don't know where like a characo in the desert. He was in silhouette. He comes forward on the news and says, we are reverse engineering alien spacecraft

at a place called Area 51, which you haven't heard about, but it's out there in the Nevada desert. Nine flying saucers. And I was part of that program,

and now I'm worried about my life. I feel a threat to my personal safety. That's my story. That's it, done.

- The story of Bob was our will never go quietly.

He described a job, not a moment in the sky, but a workplace, a schedule, a commute, the chain of command. He said, or reverse engineering, alien spacecraft, at a place you've never heard of.

That place was Area 51. He says he was hired to work at an area called S4. Add S4, he says, are flying saucers, technology that is seemingly beyond human capability. And overnight, a classified military test site

became a cultural obsession. - Lossar's story is by any standards fantastic. He says he's telling it in order to protect himself.

“- The George Nap was like, who is this Lossar guide?”

His news people were like, is this true? Because, I don't know, I'm gonna find out. - This week, we've heard the contention of UFO researchers that there's a secret government within our government.

It's a chilling scenario with worldwide implications that may have its roots right here. Area 51, that mysterious corner of the Nevada test site is no longer much of a secret. The fact that secret of things go on here is a given,

even to the Soviets who make daily spy flights over the facility

The question was not just, is this true?

It was, who is this guy? - Very polarizing figure. If people look into the UFO world, can we believe him? Can we not?

Does he have a shorted past? Is he a liar? If Lazarus lying, it's an extraordinary lie. And if he's telling the truth,

“it's one of the most important revelations in human history.”

There is no middle ground. - That was 13 years old. Then I hear on the radio, Bob Lazarus voice and George Nap interviewing him, and that was like my gateway drug.

That's where my curiosity got weaponized. He's strange stories of lights in the night sky. No one who's worked at Dreamland has ever publicly acknowledged what so many people have suspected for years

that alien technology is being tested in the Nevada desert. - It's very interesting building. It's got a slope of probably about 30 degrees, which are hangar doors.

Nine flying saucers flying disk of extraterrestrial origin. It's there and I saw it. This came from somewhere else. As a bizarre as I did to believe, I know what the current state of the art is

and physics and it can't be done.

- He says he was never told exactly

what he'd be working on,

“but figured it had something to do with advanced propulsion.”

On his first day, he was told to read a series of briefings and immediately realized how advanced the propulsion was. - You're like, "Okay, well, is this possibly true?" The one thing he said that blew my mind

was the way Bobbers are described the propulsion system. - They run gravity amplifiers. There's no physical hookup between any of the systems in there. They use gravity as a wave using wave guides,

almost like microwaves. (gentle music) Traveling these distances does require a level of technology that man does not yet achieved, but it has nothing to do with flying

in a linear mode near the feet of light. We can distort the space time and in turn the distance between the point where we are and the point where we wanna be. - Lizor doesn't talk like a storyteller.

“He talks like someone describing a machine,”

gravity amplifiers, non-reactionary propulsion. I mean, are they just cool buzzwords? Or is he actually know what he's talking about? - When you have a craft is propelled by something, most things are reactionary propulsion.

Rockets to roller skates, you push something out the back you move forward. The thing that Lizor said publicly that really struck me, he said, "This was a non-reactionary propulsion system." You can move through a time and space.

You can move somewhere without pushing something out the back. And I'm like, "What does that mean?" It's like you push your fist into a bed and you've got a bowling ball on that bed and the bowling ball falls into the divot

where you put your fist, falling into place. If what he said is true, then the distance between stars and galaxies no longer matters 'cause the big argument was of course there's life out there in the universe.

If you had a propulsion system that negated the entire dilemma you have of distance, time and space, then there's no boundary that's stopping contact from other civilizations. So all these things people see,

discs in the sky for thousands of years. Well, there's a possibility could be true.

So first time, I heard it explained in a way

that made sense from a point of physics and I thought, "Holy shit, if what he's saying is true, then distance doesn't matter." And if that's true, dude, I got to find out.

- The hardware and technology I was exposed to should be placed in the proper hands of the scientific community. There is physical evidence which proves that there's life elsewhere

and that at least one form of that life has been here. - Lazar says he worked at S4, south of Groen Lake, inside hangers built into the desert. All together, he claims to have seen nine craft, all different, all beyond human capability.

- What Bob Lazar said then, it is imperative that people try to understand what he meant by that and try to figure out from themselves if he is worthy of your trust.

And then, the story fractures. - When he came forward, whether you believe it or not,

and his well-being.

“I know everybody who's with him at that time.”

They don't even like each other anymore, some of them. They don't get along. They all agree on one thing. What Bob said happened happened. He was temporarily employed

trying to reverse engineer these UFOs. Immediately, when he came forward, George Nop tried to dig into these claims and say, "What can I prove, what is real, what is not real?" - Schools deny his education.

Agencies deny his employment. Records just disappear. Checking out Lazar's credentials proved to be a difficult task. He says he earned degrees in physics and electronics,

but the schools we contacted say they've never heard of him.

He also said he worked as a physicist at Los Alamos National Lab where he experimented with one of the world's largest particle beam accelerators. A half-mile-long behemoth capable

of generating 700 million volts.

“Very clearly worked at Los Alamos, 'cause guess why?”

George Nop went there. Bob let him in. There's video of that. Los Alamos officials told us they had no records of a Robert Lazar ever working there.

They were either mistaken or were lying. A 1982 phone book from the lab lists Lazar right there among the other scientists and technicians. A 1982 clipping from the Los Alamos newspaper profile, Lazar, and his interest in jet cars,

it too mentioned his employment at the lab as a physicist. At the same time, physical evidence refuses to cooperate with that denial. Phone books, newspaper clippings, actual video footage from Los Alamos.

This is where the Bob Lazar story becomes impossible to hold together in a clean way. Obviously worked at Los Alamos, but why did they tell George Nop

that he didn't work, they never worked there,

they don't know what he's talking about? We call Los Alamos again, and exasperated official told us he still had no records on Los Alamos. EGNG, which is where Lazar says he was interviewed

for the job at S4, also has no records. It's as if someone has made him disappear. - Well, they're trying to make me a non-person. - It's explained, you call it weird. - Follow the schools that I went to,

the hospital that was born at past job, and essentially nothing comes up with my name in it. - He smiles, but out of futility, knowing the whole thing must sound ridiculous. According to Lazar, his employer was the United States Navy.

He says he and other government employees would gather near EGNG, flight a groomed lake, and then a very few people would get into a bus with blacked out or no windows and drive to S4. It took a while, as Lazar says,

before he actually saw one of the flying discs, however, there were hints everywhere. - They had a poster, and it looked like a commercial poster almost like it was lithographed, and you could buy it at a K-Mart or something,

but they were all over the place, and it had the discs that I coined the term "The Sport Model." - The Sport Model. His name, but the craft, stashed in the desert.

- When I was led in, it was the first time I saw

the Sport Model in the hangar sitting down, and I was told they could have walked me in the front door, but they purposely wanted to walk me by it. I was still not the same thing. It just keep my eyes forward,

and walk past the discs into the office area. As I went by it, I just kind of stuck my hands on it. Just to run it alongside the thing, and after that I got to see it, I actually left off the ground and operate.

The hangars are all connected together, and they were large bay doors between each one, and there were nine total that I saw. Each one being different. - Security at S4 was oppressive,

Lazar says, and his superiors used fear and intimidation almost as a brainwashing tool. - Did everything but physically hurt me? - But a gun gear head? - Yeah.

- Guards over them, 16s. A guy is slamming their finger into my chest, screaming in my ear, or some people pointing weapons at me. It's not a good place to work.

- Either he light about parts of his background, or someone tried very hard to erase him. - Paul, I have just presented to you as true,

“and the government is keeping this a secret.”

How can I make a video telling you about it? Well, a bottom line is,

from making this video, it simply can flipin' at what I told you as true. So what you do with this information is up to you.

- What's going on up there could be the most important

event in history. You're talking about contact physical contact and proof from another system, another planet, another intelligence. That's gotta be the biggest event in history, period.

I am telling the truth, I've tried to prove that. - Not every detail is perfect. So the question becomes, does one false truth

“or unresolved mystery collapse this story altogether?”

- We have people ostensibly with credentials who are frauds and who have plumbed on to pop culture? Robert Scott Lazar supposedly a nuclear physicist with a master's in physics from MIT, a national electronics from Caltech,

who supposedly worked out area 51 back engineering flying saucers. I did a lot of checking on Bob, I tried to meet with him twice, so I was supposed to on one occasion,

and he didn't go along. I checked at MIT, I checked at Caltech, neither one ever heard of him. Well, but the government wiped his records clean as the response.

By talk to the legal counsel at MIT, no way to do that. I talk with the guy who has the degrees that commencement lists in all that sort of thing. No mention of Lazar.

None of the yearbooks show Lazar. For master's degree, you need a thesis. I talk to the guy who holds those, no Lazar, hide him there.

“When the story goes on and on, beyond that.”

And I get people telling me, well, I don't see why you don't believe him, he seems so sincere. Sociality is not a check on truth. So, if you go back in his history,

and he talks about going to college, there's no record of him being at this college. How is that so? What is the explanation for that? So let's open this up so your audience understands.

So now we're going to like one of the points of contention.

One of the first things George Nap couldn't confirm

was Bob Lazar's education history. For certain things he couldn't ever prove. Doesn't mean they didn't happen. Just George couldn't prove him. So in the first report,

because I cannot verify his claimed educational roles, what he said that he had. So it leaves you with one of three options. Either Bob Lazar lied about his educational history, that doesn't negate the fact that he did work

at Los Alamos, and doesn't negate the fact what we now know about his employment at the test range area 51. That's version one. Okay, I'll accept that if that's true.

Already you've got one thing, cool, doesn't make the difference for me. And it's a part of it. Maybe I just want to know is he a liar. What is the value of that to you?

Maybe you're trying to figure out if he's a liar. So it's like if you're on trial, and this person had a history of lying about this, the defense would use that, that's evidence. You know, you look at the idea of,

well, what's the other options? The other option is that back in the '80s, or '89, when things were not as digital as they are now, could you and would you scrub elements of his educational background? Okay, I could see some of that happening.

So then the third option is,

what if Bob Lazar hasn't told us everything? What if he did have education at those schools he claimed, but he was maybe protecting a little bit, the exact nature of that education? That's something that maybe Bob can talk about

if he ever wants to, but that's a third option of what people to keep on the table. When you bring up one aspect of the Bob Lazar case

“that is on your mind, you have to assign it to value.”

Like how important is that, if we already know he worked there if you want and we have some proof of that, like I have people that testified they saw him there. So then you have to assign a value to that. How much value does that one thing have you?

I gave you three possibilities. Maybe we don't know the full story. That's how I would write the ship for you,

is it maybe there's something that we don't fully understand yet, or he's lying, or they scrubbed it, a sign of value to that. Just keep an open mind. If I found out he was lying, I would have already said so.

And I could swallow the pill that, if he can't afford to say, "Hey, man, I lied about this." Think he's more credible if he told me that. But just to be fundamentally clear, my understanding, like my belief, I guess my direct knowledge,

is that Bob Lazar's tongue is how it is, and there's probably more to hear from him.

“The other thing I think you should consider,”

if there's tons of evidence in the favor of Bob having experienced what he said he did, we can't dismiss all of that, based upon a few things that are unloved for you. Don't discount, there is a mountain of evidence.

The other thing you can reconcile is that it is possible that some of my Bob Lazar is the perfect person to bring into a program, rocket guy, he's a pirate. If you wanted to discredit Bob, you can do it.

- The bottom line is, some things add up,

some things do not, and there's no one explanation that covers all of it, at least in a clean way. So instead of arguing about Bob Lazar as a person, let's widen the frame. The deeper question is about how we decide

what counts as knowledge, what do we accept as evidence, and how much uncertainty are we willing to take before we stop looking? - More than a dozen agents serving federal search warrants. - Tain is now chief investigator, George Napp,

now with the exclusive story. - Secrecy has always been paramount at Area 51, a once obscure outpost in the Nevada desert that might be the world's best known secret base. - Gee, it was pulled into court in crazy ways.

Pulled into court for setting up a security system for a brothel. Bob had a crazy life. And when you talk about discrediting the messenger, so that you can discredit the message,

that's where it gets sticky. Just because you can discredit somebody from a wet immoral standpoint, doesn't mean what they're saying to you.

“You should be disturbed by certain locks of information”

in the Bob Lazar report and what he has reported to us. It would make logical sense for you to be a little bit like, wait a second there, wait a second there. I was trying to catch Bob Lazar in a lie, absolutely every day, from my own knowledge.

And I'm sorry to report.

Bazaar has never, ever been disingenuous with me.

Not even disingenuous, you gave me access to everything. - 30 years ago, today, KLAS, aired a live interview with an anonymous man who made some really astonishing claims. He alleged that the US military was secretly studying

alien technology out of the Nevada Desert area 51. - A lot has changed in the decade since Bob Lazar first told this wild story. Depending on recently admitted that it really has been secretly studying UFOs

and then it wanted to figure out and duplicate that technology. - Pentagon officials reluctantly admitted to the New York Times that the military has secretly studied UFO incidents in parts

who had might figure out the technology.

- It is what it is, but ultimately, I wasn't there.

I don't know, for fact, the everything he saw was what he thinks it was. The mysterious case of Bob Lazar, he's a hell of a guy a really good person.

“And that's more important to me than fire saucers.”

- In 2023, a story gripped the UK of looking horror and disbelief. - A nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

- Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict of villain, a nurse named Lucy Leppi. - Lucy Leppi has been found guilty. - But what if we didn't get the full story? - A moment you look at the whole picture

of the case collapses.

the case of Lucy Leppi,

“we follow the evidence in here from the people that lived it.”

To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Leppi was. - No voicing of any skepticism are doubt. - It'll call so much harm at every single level at the British establishment of this is wrong.

- Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Leppi, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. - China's Ministry of State Security

is one of the most mysterious and powerful

spy agencies in the world. - But in 2017, the FBI got inside. - This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. - This MSS officer has no idea the U.S. government is on to him,

but the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Here how they got it on the 6th Bureau podcast. - I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer no doubt, no question of his life.

And that's the unicorn.

“- No one had ever seen anything like that.”

It was unbelievable. - This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS, and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. - Listen to the 6th Bureau and the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.

Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. - He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. - He identified Termine Hudson as the perpetrator. Termine was sentenced to 99 years.

- And like Laura, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. - The best lie is partial truth. - For 22 years only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

- I was a monster. - Listen to burden of guilt season two

“on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts,”

or wherever you get your podcasts. - I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor. - Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan.

He became the first bachelor to ever have his final rows rejected.

The internet turned on him. - If I could press a button and rewind it all I would. - But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines? It began as a one night stand and ended in a courtroom

with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. - The media is here. This case has gone viral. - The dating contract.

- I agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. - We're such one. - This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. - I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

This season, an epic battle of he said she said, and the search for accountability in a sea of lies. - I don't know being to get pregnant by the (beep) Brassler. - Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. (dramatic music)

- The bottom line is, some things add up,

some things do not, and there's no one explanation that covers all of it, at least in a clean way. So instead of arguing about Bob Lazar as a person, let's widen the frame. The deeper question is about how we decide

what counts as knowledge. What do we accept as evidence? And how much uncertainty are we willing to take before we stop looking? To help do that, I wanted to bring in two minds

who approached this problem from a very different angle. Not as whistleblowers, or journalists, but as thinkers, scientists who were less interested in answers than in frameworks. That brings us to Gary Nolan,

who you heard briefly in episode one, in the legendary Jacques Felle. (dramatic music) - It's like the end of Adolescence, and now you need to get a job.

Okay? Then you need to get money, and you get to invest in structures, which is what Dr. Nolan is leading, and that's possible now,

because I think in part, because of people like me,

through the web, and so on,

“a number of people know that the basic facts,”

the basic data, and a number of people have started to do their own investigations. And if you have a computer today, you can build a professional level catalogue, and you can do your own statistics,

if you're not statistics, you don't need to wait for somebody to give you authorization to do that. That has changed the audience. It's made it a lot larger, and it has changed the level of professionalism

that you can apply to them. The mystery goes through phases,

and every phase is taken up by the media,

and then forgotten, and then reborn, some other way. So I've seen all these different waves of interest along the way. Then it became international. Today, most of the information,

some way that I get, or that people here get is through the web. Now, everybody can be in contact, know what's going on in other countries.

“I think we're at a point of major transition.”

You know, the media has driven that. You know, once you have television, then people have access to larger audience, so on, before it was just radio interviews, you know, once in a while,

and they would only happen when there was some event. Journalists are not going to be interested

in a subject where there is no breakthrough.

When we're still standing here with no real answer to the mystery, I'm taking the time to answer your question. Bigger, I think that's the profound question. There isn't one truth.

I'm an information scientist. So what I'm going to do is ask how many cases like that are there, and I'm going to build a little catalogue of those cases.

If I can, I'm going to go talk to the witnesses in the other cases, they're all like it. Then I'll try to build a pattern or a model of what the operation or what the situation was and where the person was with respect to that situation.

“And I think that's all I can do, that's the best I can do.”

- Data is different in evidence. The same data, I got a list of numbers. It could be what last year's wine harvest is or what the output of the sewage plant was across the United States.

Numbers, that's just data, right? But contextualized data, at least in science, in the context of a hypothesis saying, okay, here's data that I've collected around biology. It does the data support in the context of the question,

whether or not a hypothesis is correct. At that level, it starts to become evidence. And we call it evidence, but it's not. Evidence is not proof. Evidence is no more proof in biology or UAP, UFOs,

than it is in a courtroom. Evidence is evidence and you have a jury of your peers who you are looking at the evidence and how you the prosecutor or the defense pitch it. Different ways of interpreting what the evidence means.

But the evidence truly is just data. - The question is, what is the nature of evidence? I mean, there has to be a framework, it's like in court. You can have a witness who is telling the truth about what he saw and he saw blue car.

Now, I'm going to, you know, get other witnesses to come forward and some of them will be true fraud and they will have seen a red car. Okay, and they are both telling the truth as they experienced it at the time.

But at the time, the event was confusing. There were many people, there was blood on the floor, there was an accident, there was something happening. It was a police arrived with silence. Then the lights and everything else,

ambulances arrived and everybody got very confused. - If you look in the papers and you read the actual signs of the papers,

will leave themselves so much diplomatic room to be wrong.

They'll always say it is supportive of the hypothesis.

Do you leave yourself room to be wrong? Scientists are right today, wrong tomorrow, but right are the next day. You know, so what it is, it's an incremental reinterpretation of reality.

- Reality is a construct of my brain based on my perceptions and my perceptions are limited and they are limited by my culture. They are biased by, you know, my beliefs. Some people might see the Virgin Mary

and I don't just see a light.

“If you want to go back to, was it real or not?”

You have to ask that question in, you know, what do you mean by real? You know, I mean, was there a physical version there and if so, how come only one person's solar? - There's only really one place where proof exists

and that's in math because you have set the parameters so tightly, usually in a mathematical regime. You've created a sandbox within which it's either right or wrong.

One plus one equals two, always.

But we do come eventually to conclusions. Certain things get accepted as fact because so many people have looked at it over time.

“That is like, okay, well, I don't need to check it again.”

Every time I've checked it and all the things that I do based on it, continue to be true. So therefore, I can proceed as if it was a formal conclusion. - And if you decode it the way I try to decode those, it says, "Young idea of time is wrong,

"and your idea of space is wrong."

Now I can introduce you to some of my friends in physics

and interrelate physics while telling me the same thing. There is no such thing as time, there is no such thing as space. Those are things that are brains and eyes and are constructing to account for things around us. Well enough that we can survive in this environment for a while.

“That's all there is, but that's not true”

in terms of the way the universe is constructed. All those messages whether they are overt or, you know, most are implanted in the brain or whatever. They are at another level that needs to be decoded. But you find the same message being told

in many different cultures, many different ways, independently. You know, the physicists today are starting to teach that time and space are convenient valuables to do math about this world so we can build the iPhone to our work. But that's really not the basic physics is a form

of uncertainty, you know, form of quantum or something like that. So, physics is in a crisis because of that. They need reconciled with reality, the way it is, the way we manipulate it. We're facing something that's where ahead of us,

we have control of physics that we don't understand and control of life and all that at a level that we haven't considered yet. To me, the driver is that this should be an inspiration for us. This is not a threat, which is why the Air Force wanted to get out

of it because we have to, you know, everything they do is design for war. This is not a war, we don't know what it is. The science is based on observing nature and being seduced by nature or threatened by nature and adapting to it. So, this is part of our learning, you know, about the universe generally,

but we think we understand the Earth and that's not true.

So, I think we're getting humble as part of this,

“and it's good for us to be a little bit humble.”

For example, there are three universities in the United States that are now engaged with projects that are funded. There is, you know, Stanford, Colombia, and Harvard. Excuse me, but those are not depending on money from the government. They do whatever they want.

And a professor with tenure in one of those universities, like Dr. Nolan, or Dr. Avillow, and Harvard, can pretty much raise money from companies or from interested people and design the project he wants to get his students involved. At the very beginning, when I spoke to Dr. Heineck,

there were a number of secret projects.

“If you remember on the Air Force in the US and so on,”

the hypothesis was that this could come from an adversary, you know, as part of the Cold War, that this was part of spying, this was part of, and that hypothesis didn't work. I mean, what they were observing was beyond the capability of even the Soviet Union.

The thing that I saw as a kid, I have no idea. I would compare it to, you know, I could give you hundreds of observations just like it. Between 10 and 15 meters in diameter, a disk that flies without noise or trail and has some sort of a dome on top trying to solve it. In 2023, a story gripped the UK,

evoking horror and disbelief. The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history. Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict, a villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

Lucy Letby has been found guilty. But what if we didn't get the whole story? A moment you look at the whole picture of the case collapses. I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it.

To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was, no voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful

spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside. This is a special agent, Riegel, a special agent, Bradley Hall. This MSS officer has no idea the US government is on to him, but the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Here how they got it on the 6th Bureau podcast. I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life.

And that's the unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable. This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS, and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its fault of secrets. Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Clayton Nackard, and in 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

Unfortunately, it didn't go according to plan. He became the first bachelor to ever have his final

rose rejected. The internet turned on him. If I could press a button and rewind it all, I would.

“But what happened to Clayton after the show made even bigger headlines?”

It began as a one night stand, and ended in a courtroom, with Clayton at the center of a very strange paternity scandal. The media is here. This case has gone viral. The dating contract. Agreed to date me, but I'm also suing you. This is unlike anything I've ever seen before. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. This season, an epic battle of he said she said,

Listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

“I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous”

lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime. He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground. He identified to mean Hudson as the perpetrator. Germain was sentenced to 99 years. I'm like, "Lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity." The best lie is partial truth. For 22 years, only two people knew the truth, until a confession changed everything. I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season two

on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When you listen to people like Jacques Felle and Gary Nolan, the forces you to slow down, not because they're giving you answers, but they remind you how limited or framework still are. How much of reality we explain through habit and comfort, instead of actual understanding. Science likes clean categories,

clear definitions, results that are repeatable, but the human experience is never that tight.

Making this season of high-strange, there's so many nuanced details that stand out to me. People's tone, they're timing, body language, what somebody hesitates on, what they tend to rush through, and what feels heavy. Not just the stories themselves, but the real-life moments around them, sitting across from someone and feeling the room change when a certain detail comes up. Watching people light up or shut down, realizing how much information lives in these pauses.

They don't show up in transcripts. They don't fit neatly into an evidence folder, but they matter. This show is not just about what people say happened. It's about how they carry it, how it sits with them, how it shaped the way they move through the world. And the same goes for us. Every interview, every drive, every late night conversation, all that becomes part of the story, too. So in the next episode, I sit down with my team

and we pull the camera back even further. We talk openly about the people we've met,

the places we went, the moments that stuck with us, and the stories that never quite fit into a

single episode, but I just have to tell you. Since 2023, we've been researching this topic

“at length. We have dozens of more stories to share with you. That's why we're coming back again.”

Season 3 of High Strange will be even longer and begins on June 6. And before we get there, let's take the gloves off and talk about some aliens. High Strange is a production by tenderfoot TV in association with my heart podcast, created hosted and edited by myself, pain-lensy, executive producers, or myself, and Donald Allbright, editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner, and myself. Original score by

makeup and vanity set, sound design mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner, additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nourney, and Meredith Stedman. Our cover art is by Polygon, special thanks to Oran Rosenbaum, and the whole team at UTA, the Nord Group, Station 16, and Beck Media, and Marketing. Check out the show's website at highstrange.com. And if you're enjoying the show, please help us out by rating and reviewing

the podcast and share it with your friends. Thanks for listening. Let be, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story? It has been based at first. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

“What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?”

Oh my God, I think she might be innocent. Listen to doubt, the case of Lucy Letby, on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Clayton Nackard, and 2022, I was the lead of ABC's The Bachelor.

But here's the thing, Bachelor fans hated him.

That's when his life took a disturbing turn. A one-night stand would end in a courtroom.

“The media is here, this case has gone viral. The dating contract.”

A great a date mean, but I'm also so suing you.

This is unlike anything I've ever seen before.

I'm Stephanie Young, listen to Love Trapped on the iHeart Radio app,

“Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.”

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the burden of guilt season 2 podcast.

This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime.

“The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.”

I was a monster. Listen to burden of guilt season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, tender for listeners, we want to hear from you. We just launched a survey and want to know about your favorite shows,

your merch requests, and what you'd like to listen to in 2022. Give us the gift of your feedback and you might be one of our winners to get free merch, and a $100 Amazon gift card. Head over to www.tenderfoot.tv/survey for more. Thanks again. Now here's the show.