Forgiving Yourself with Mary J. Blige

Like if something happened, you know,

“if I could didn't sell or if this didn't happen,”

you know, didn't just didn't get that many, whatever. I would go crazy on people like that. There's some people to oblivion and all that. So when I know my drama album came out,

I was like, I don't want to release this album without apologizing to every single person at this label. Get everybody, anybody that did anything to me. Line 'em up, I'm apologizing, I'm apologizing. I'm apologizing, every single person.

This episode is brought to you by Lily. Hey, hey Craig, welcome to I am all. It sure is nice to be here.

I know, I haven't seen you in a second.

I know. Yeah, we have a treat today. We got, oh my gosh. One of my favorite people on the planet. Yeah, you guys have met before.

See, this was my first time meeting Mary. I know. You're going to be in for a treat. I know. She's a real one, but this is the first time

we've sat down for a conversation.

“We were talking about the one and only Mary J.”

Blige is here. But even though we met and spent a little bit of time together, this is the first time we're going to really be able to talk it out. But I love her in all kinds of ways. Just like everybody on the planet loves Mary J. Blige.

But let's do a proper introduction. Well, Mary J. Blige is a singer songwriter, actress, producer, and entrepreneur. Killing it.

She is best known as the Queen of Hip Hop Soul

with 15 studio albums, nine Grammy Awards, six BET Awards. 12 NAACP Awards. I want to see her trophy room. And one prime time Emmy. So she had her acting too.

She got it up in a minute. She's a member of the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame, received a lifetime achievement award from BET and has a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. So after this, I'm going to go have to go outside

and find that John. So without further ado, Mary J. Blige. Mary J. Blige. Thank you so much. Oh, you're so good.

My big brother. Oh, thank you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Well, good night.

I am all honey bond. Thank you. Beautiful. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me.

You got-- you got some stuff going on. Don't you? I got a lot of stuff going on all the time. But you-- what brings you to LA, this-- what brings me sort of West Coast.

Yeah, I'm-- about to do my first ever residency.

That's-- Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty major. So what-- what's arena?

Where-- I mean, what's-- Um, that MGM-- it'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is going to be a blowout. How have you been thinking about this show? I mean, is it you, is it you and other people?

Is it going to be a bunch of surprises? It's me. It's all about me. It's called my life, my story. So we're going to try to not make it into something

theatrical because Mary J. Blige was a Mary J. Blige show. Yes, fun. Yeah. But we're going to try to, like, tell the story,

with, you know, pictures and, you know, just-- I don't want to give it all away. Yeah, yeah. But the music is-- it's going to be up. The music is going to be up.

And then we're going to have our moments of-- I'm going down. No, that's the point that we have. What's what we're doing with the fashion, and how we think about that?

We're going to go crazy with the fashion. But we're going to go like elevated. Yeah. Not super ghetto fabulous. Are we talking-- we're going to get--

We're going to get fabulous. Are we talking-- we're talking moments like-- I don't want to give-- I know. Because we're so close.

Yeah, we're so close. It's going to be good. It's on a moment. It's going to-- It's going to shot people.

Oh, my God. And OK. And help me understand, because-- so what's the difference between sort of a residency and doing a tour?

The difference with me is-- so I've been touring for years.

“And the only thing that's the beauty about the residency,”

the gift about it, is that you sit still and what other mansion you're in, in Vegas, whatever you decide to do. And you drive 20 minutes to the MGM theater. And you do your show.

When touring was about--

So I think the traveling is what created such a bad taste. But other than that, the performance is what we do it for. But the traveling is the difference. So the performance will be the same each night, or similar each night or just like the same.

OK. It'll probably be different guests. But the difference is the traveling versus just sitting still and enjoying walking into your living room full of fans. I mean, your music just transcends all kinds of stuff.

Because it's so personal. I mean, it's reflected of what so many of us have gone through. But I like the fact that you say that you're going to run through your life. Are you starting at the very beginning?

Are you thinking about it in terms of your life when you were a child? Are you talking about the beginning of your life in the industry? I mean, how do you think about telling that story?

“Well, I think I have to start from childhood,”

because that's when I discovered that music was my first love. New singing was everything to me.

It made me feel amazing as a child.

And so I have to start from childhood. Music was the thing. My mom was a single, but she couldn't pursue her singing dreams, because she had us. And she had us fall, shouldn't.

Not making me nervous. Oh, no. I'm nervous. You were my friend. You may have been talking to me.

You were a little bummer. You make it on my own nervous. Give me a second to give my words right. So anyway, let me get that story correct. My mom had a scholarship for singing.

And she had us at a young age. And she couldn't pursue it, because she had to take care of us. So my mom was a woman who sang around a house. She was, I mean, she could sing anything like anybody. So it all started there for me just watching her be a singer.

So I discovered that I can sing to when did you remember finding your voice? I mean, like, if Barry, if I could sing, I'd be singing all day. He'd be so sick of me. It'd be like, is that true?

She sings even though she can't sing. Well, of course, you know, both.

“But you know, when does somebody with the talent like yours?”

How old were you when you were like, "Dag, I sound pretty good." I was seven. What happened? I was seven when I realized, like, I can sound like any, any, like, I could mimic anyone.

Really? I mean, like, really do it. And I remember, um, I did a talent show in school. And I sang reunite about how to sing her. I was seven, seven years old seven years old, singing reunite.

And I sang the guy, you know, that's the duet. Oh, yeah. Are you saying both parties? I killed him. Now, did you have, did, you know, were you comfortable?

Were you shy? I mean, were you, you could sing, but you had the performing thing.

And you then, I just always do, like, when it came to sing in, I didn't have any fear.

Yeah. So I just did it. It just was something that, you know, that was any to do. And so you, so you go to the talent show, you sang it afterwards. Tell us what you felt like as a seven-year-old walking off the stage.

Okay. You just, you just killed it like you said. For reunite, it just reunited the good, the good, the good, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real, the real. I felt good because everybody was cheering.

Yeah. And the word was, wow, I mean, we can sing.

“That's what I remember, and here I'm an in school.”

But that give you a little cred, I mean, did you, were you able to, you know, I was walking running out of the house, yeah, I was singing in the house, singing where brush listening in the mirror, this, I was, it was on a pop and after what about your, your, your, your brothers and sisters, you have one sister, I have two younger siblings, and my, my older sister.

Okay. Yes. And so when did you realize, oh, man, I can make a living doing this, as opposed to just I'm good at it, and I'm singing.

I didn't realize I can make a living doing it, it was something I always wanted to do.

But what happened was, um, and Yonkers and Westchester, there was a more, um, when we were teenagers, um, called Galleria Mall, and they built a karaoke machine in the gallery, Galleria Mall. And everybody was talking about it and, um, one of my friends was like, Mary, you should go and, you know, record in, in the Galleria Mall.

How are you? I think I was probably 14 and I went and I recorded, uh, Anita Baker's caught up in the rapture, um, and because that was one of my favorite songs.

And my mother's boyfriend at the time, um, he worked in general, molders with this, uh,

artists by the name of Jeff Rae, Jeff Rae was already signs of town records. When were you called and told me, though, yeah, that's Jeff Rae. So he was the artist that was already signs of town records with Andre Herrell and my, um, that father gave it, gave the tape to him. Yeah.

He gave the tape to Andre Herrell, who's the CEO of town records. Andre came to Yonkers to slow them and I sang the whole rapture album for him. Yeah. The whole rapture. That was my album, the whole rapture album.

Where were you when you performed for him? A whole album. And my, and my living room in the projects. So if you came, wow. He came, when he heard the court up in the rapture, tape that my stepfather gave him,

he came to the projects. So you all are sitting around. Is everybody there? Your brothers and sisters is at like Christmas morning and Andre Herrell shows up at your house.

[laughs] Well, these guys that were trying to like, you know, manage me at the time. They would a reason why I was even able to, you know, um, get this tape. So Reggie Johnson was someone that my stepfather, that Jeff Reddnew. And they told Andre Herrell, you know, about, you know, how, how guess how to get to me and everything.

And they called my stepfather and they said, well, Andre's coming.

“So I had to meet him downstairs and he pulled up in his BMW and he had, was it just him?”

It was just him. And so he, he from the pole of grounds, of course he's going to come to Slovakia. He had a black and white polka dot shirt on and a sash and he's glasses, you know, Andre. And he came upstairs and I sang Aca Pella, almost every song from the rapture album.

And he wrestes. So what was his reaction? Did he play cool? Well, the fan in listen to the, you know, it must have been good by the time you got to the third record.

It was just sitting there because Andre was always like, cool.

So he was just watching. And I didn't know what that looked like. Right. Right. Right.

We got something here. We got something. Yeah. And my mom was just looking all proud. You know, we didn't know, you know, and I wasn't like excited because, you know, being famous

was just really far fetched with something that we didn't think could happen to us. But it happened, but I wasn't like, oh, yeah, I'm going to get a deal. I'm just like, yeah, this is what I was saying. This is what I do. No big deal.

And you weren't nervous and nothing. Oh, see that? That's a skill to be able to be able to get the rapture. That's a cappercorn. Oh, here we go.

Here we go. On the pressure. Right. On the pressure. It's not a cappercorn.

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Mesh, thinking back to when you picked up your first home, what was the biggest priority

for you? For me, I was just laser focused on location. I needed to make sure I was central and close to family. Yeah, that was the same thing for us as well.

“I think when Barack and I bought our first home, we really only looked in one neighborhood.”

And that was high park on the south side of Chicago. It was down the street from where you and Janice and the kids lived and that met the world. So we didn't even look in neighborhoods that weren't close to family. Yeah, where the girls would go to school, where we were working. So for us, location was key.

I'm curious, if you were back in that position today, do you think your priorities would stay the same or has your perspective shifted a bit? That's a good question. Barack and I talk about this a lot. And we've come to learn that community and family support matters much more than I think

we give it credit for. Sometimes we see young professionals, they prioritize living closer to their job or taking the promotion. But as you grow your family, we've found that just having people around that you can count on is worth a lot more than you think it does.

So I think we probably would still prioritize location, community over a lot of other things. I agree.

“I think young Craig would be very happy with the house I'm in now.”

But he'd be even happier to see all the ways my family have made it our home.

He'd love that. So, oh my god, you know I love my backyard.

No, when you do finally achieve that home owning goal, it feels amazing.

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at progressive.com/openthehouse where home buyers can access home buying resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. What was home like? What was your family like? What was your mother like?

My mother was beautiful. She worked two jobs, it was just me and my mom and my sister, so it was just before my two siblings came, my mom raised us by herself and, you know, some, you know, the projects is me and I say more, not a great environment, but, you know, she was this little woman who had to be a man and a woman, so we were raised like that my sister and I, but she

was also this kind woman that would take in the whole project if she needed to.

She was just, she was again, but she helped, you know, and she wasn't scary, she just

“my mother was a dog, she had to make sure her little girls was okay, so that's what”

the environment wasn't good, but my mom was good. It was a safe space, yes. And then, you know, I know for us growing up, now we didn't grow up in the projects, but we grew up in a black neighborhood where, you know, you see a lot, me, Craig saw more than me because he was a basketball player playing at the courts and just, they're just

a way you got to carry yourself just to get to and from, just to, you know, just to be able to exist and survive and I was reading somewhere where you said, you said something to the effect that, you know, you didn't smile a lot because you didn't feel like people, people would take advantage of that smile, like if you showed your vulnerability that that made you too much of a target, I might be misphrase in that.

What a thing is this, um, we didn't smile too much and we didn't brag too much because nobody had anything to smile about and nobody had anything to brag about, but my mom works. So we had a little bit teeny bit more than what everybody else had, so we were trying to brag about new sneakers and smile too much about, you know, anything because that was the environment.

You had to have a game facing what are not to get hurt. So you go to the store, you get a bag of candy, you know, share, you got to fight two girls. That's right. You know, so you guys from Chicago like, you know, you just bring it back to memories

telling us the same thing because our, well, my dad worked and we had a, had it just a little bit nicer than our friends and that sort of not, you know, but we didn't know it. Yeah. Yeah. But, but what our parents did exactly what your mom did, you don't show when

“you got something nice, you, you, you have to have, you, you started learning at an”

early age, how to code switch in your own environment, home versus school versus the streets. Well, it depends on it. It depends on where you'll see the economic on where you live and stuff, but I'm just, I'm thinking back on how your, your mom was showing you humility, but it was, it was

not out of courtesy. It was out of survival. Yeah. It was just something we learned to, we really learned that because when you have to fight every other day, even my mom come home from work, she got to fight the, you know, the

biggest chicken, you know, on the planet, my mom is this big. So we learned early, like we got to show, like you can't, you know, even if someone said we was pretty, we can't act like you know, whatever, we had to wipe that, you know, and unless you wanted to be doing that, you know, so we learned early. And I think that that helped me a lot with this music business on how it's a gun, yeah,

not for you, some came to me today, and I've heard before a favor is not fair, so everybody's not going to be happy. Yeah.

“And that's the wisdom from how we, you know, we're not, you know, yeah, well, a lot of”

people want to be like you, they want to be, but they also want to be famous, they want to be wealthy or they think they want to be it, a lot of people want to go into the music industry. Okay, it's a tough business, can you talk about, you know, so you go from your living room, yes, to signing.

Yes, so, this is funny, but it's not, we signed a contract in the kitchen on the Washington machine. My mom didn't know anything. She didn't know anything about me in the contract, know that we care, we just, oh, we get out of here.

Yeah. What was on that contract was better than what you had, it was, it was, it was, we had not a lot of, of anything, yeah, and it was a way out, it was a, it was a, it was a safe way out. Yeah.

So my mom signed a contract, and this was what I would say in the music business, I didn't finish high school, I didn't go to college, then I would say this to anybody, then just high school, go to college, take some kind of class because, I mean, by the grace of God, I'm here because I didn't know anything about any contracts, I didn't know how much money I had, I didn't know when I was, bro, whatever, I was just living, you know what I mean,

and trusting people that ended up, you know, couldn't be trucked, ended up not being able to be trusted. So, did you have education, take some accounting classes in business, go do something, you know, because it's, everyone doesn't get a chance to survive, right, what I survived.

And, and what was that first contract like, I mean, I mean, because I want people to understand

what a bad, first deal looks like, you know, to be quite honest with you, Michelle, I don't know. Yeah, to, you know, the lawyers, whoever had it, at that point had it, and all I know was that everyone that was in my life, including the lawyers were people that were looking out for themselves, you know, I don't want to start labeling things, but everybody was looking

out for themselves, and, you know, they would benefiting off of the fact that I was unaware, and that happened for a long time. So, when I woke up and realized, you know, Mary, you

“have to get educated. You have to stay on your business. Yeah, because you're not going”

to go anywhere else if you keep this up. So, I got blessed with some people that could help me to read contracts or read what I could read, because contracts are the step they

sure aren't doing that. That's right. But if someone, I'm not afraid to say, I've never

been afraid to say, I need help, and I've never been afraid to say, I don't know. Yeah. And I've been, you know, getting help. And whatever I can't read or understand, I get my lawyers to help me read it and understand it. And people really, who really have my best interest at heart, they'll explain everything, everything to me. And I still, still now, I still need help, because it's, it's a lot now that I have something to protect, right?

Yes. Now, I do more health, exactly. And what people like to trust themselves? What point of, in your career, what age did you start to say, oh, man, I got to get, I got to figure this out on my own, because I'm being taken advantage of. Let me see. I want to say it was

“no more, around no more drama time. When I was like, I'm still here, but my life is a mess.”

Yeah. And I need, and for some reason, certain people was coming in and coming into my life to help, while certain people were still there that was trying to destroy. So I had to keep those people in my life and take responsibility. My responsibility was I was ignorant to a lot of things and blame it in all everybody else. Yeah. So I took full responsibility. And

I remember when we first put the normal drama album out, I still get upset and curse everybody

out because my new, you know, things weren't working, you know, and it wasn't, they're

happened, you know, if I could do so or just didn't happen, you know, didn't just didn't

“get that many, whatever, I would go crazy on people. Yeah, person, people to oblivion and”

all that stuff. So when a, no, my drama album came out, I was like, I don't want to release this album without apologizing to every single person at this label. Get everybody, anybody that did anything to me, line them up, I'm apologizing. I apologize to every single person. Where did you get the wherewithal to do that? To say it was time. It's like, it's time and

here's what I have to do. I have to hold myself accountable. I mean, do you know there,

and people who were 70 years old who hadn't figured out that part of it yet, and you were doing it, you were still, still must have been a kid. Then I was, but it's the spiritual side of things. And I started listening to a lot of like TV pastors and people that had

“information and pride and arrogance and all that stuff. A proud, a proud, a proud and”

hordy person won't go further than this. You know, so it was a lot, I was going to a lot of information that caused me to pause and look at myself. You know, and so I realized

that I was being prideful and disrespectful to people and just different things that made me

be like free. Just pump the brakes. I'm doing something wrong here. And I need to speak to people. I need to apologize to these people for my mistakes. So that's, I just got a good look at myself. I think I pray to prayer Lord, show me myself. You know, and I still pray to prayer. I got to see me. We don't want to see ourselves because that hard look, yes, and you truly are good, bad, ugly. You got to be ready for that. Yeah. And I'm ready now. I'm there myself all the time

you're like, it's okay. Yeah. At least you can see yourself. I mean, your rise was beyond

meteoric. I mean, you went from your living room singing in the projects in front of your mother

and the people that you love to deal with a whole bunch of strangers and having your name being a

“household word. I mean, you, you have to be able to forgive yourself. The little bitty Mary J,”

who was trying to navigate all that. And did no much at the time? Yeah, I do. I feel, I feel good myself. That's why I'm like, happy with myself now because I forgive myself for not knowing. Yeah. And whatever I don't know, I'm not ashamed. I'm not ashamed to say, I don't know. I don't know. Help me. So I'm interested in understanding how with all of the stuff that you've been through and you're, you're learning yourself. The one consistent thing was your music,

you all, you kept pumping out hits and being good. How did you do that? Well, the music was my therapy. It was the only way I can get everything out of me. So if you go back to the was the former one album, that was me breaking fresh out of the projects. My life album was when I spoke and said, I need help. I'm damaged. I messed up and everybody else said, so a week. Share my world was when I went and started doing my own thing and left some people behind.

That was another chapter. You know, I'm speaking from there. Mary album, saying thing. I'm speaking from there. Um, no more drama. My life was, I'm speaking from there to break through album. That was a whole other level. I broke through. I'm here and they keep going going, going going going going going. So it was just fair. It was a way for me to get it out and talk to the people and have them talk back to me. Did you know you were creating a whole new genre of music

when you were doing it or were you just doing it? No idea. I was singing for my life. You know, hip-hop songs and over hip-hop loops in being this little, you know, we didn't know we were doing. You know, we didn't know it was going to even explode the way I did. And to this day, everybody still wants to sing, you know, it's still doing it. You know, so still doing it. Yeah, that's still doing it. My, our, our colleagues wanted me to tell you that when I was, no, he wanted to tell you. No,

I was going to keep this to myself. Now, you know, I did it just like why I wanted to keep this to myself. But I had a, a mix tape when I was in college. He used to DJ. I used to DJ.

And we were just company women craggy crag. Women come over it. And, and I was, we were just talking about your music. And I was like, yeah, I think I had a Mary song on every fifth song. Like, I had. Oh, yes. So, so he wants to thank you. Thank you. He wants to thank you. Thank you.

“He wants to thank you. I wasn't going to say it, but then everybody said, oh, you should tell Mary”

that. And then I was all embarrassed. Now I'm glad I told you. Thank you. Thank you. That means a lot of the spins. Thanks for the spin, but it's from craggy crag. One of my favorite parts of traveling is seeing how locals actually live. You could hit all

the famous touristy spots. But I always remember the little neighborhood coffee shops or restaurants

or parks even more. That's the stuff that sticks with me long after you get home. I was back in one of my old neighborhoods for a visit. I was able to take my family to some of my favorite spots. We went by a couple of restaurants I love and the bookstore I frequented. And that's why

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“learned through your life through the loves that you've had or the mistakes that you made?”

The most important lesson I learned is that you're not going to be able to give away anything

you don't have. I didn't love myself. I know how to love myself and need those relationships. How could they ever work? So now that I have this love for myself, it's wonderful. This relationship with me is the relationship that I work on the most. This relationship brings in other good relationships. You know, it makes other people happy because I'm happy. But if I'm miserable in a relationship,

you can't give away what you don't have.

Yeah, self-love is really a key thing. Our parents were big on making sure

that we loved ourselves, saying exactly what you did. You can't love anybody else until you love yourself. Well, they're just so much focus on for women, fine and a man. You know, yeah, females, we saw dream, you know, to be rescued or to be chosen to be chosen to be chosen. You know, and so we're always working on us, not for us, but to be chosen.

“And that's what we mess up at so many years. You're working on yourself to be chosen by”

someone else. I'm working on myself to be chosen by me. It's all about me right now and it's going

to continue to be. And this is this is work every single day. I got to make sure that I can sleep at night before I can, you know, sleep with somebody. Exactly. You've talked openly about experiencing abuse and, you know, I mean, that's part of your story. It's sadly a part of too many girl story. I mean, I heard you say, which I've said this time and time again, because I work on issues with girls, young girls around the world, girls education, trying to make sure young girls

have some level of self-esteem because you've said this and I've said this, this world just

not a safe place for girls. I mean, the entire world is not a safe space for girls. It is a shame. I say it out loud because I want the men in this world, the leaders in this world to understand that we've created a place where most girls are, they have to fear for their safety every day. 100%. I mean, no, no little girl. And you know what? No little way is safe feeling. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's children. You know, we are not

“mostly women. We, you know, we've been through it. We've been through it. You know, five years. Oh, why? Why?”

What do you want to do? What a five year old. Yeah. So yeah, it's, but, you know, we're here. Yeah. And with, you know, we've forgiven, we've moved past and still hurt sometimes, you know, but it's a blessing in that, that lesson. You know, it's strengthened. It's strengthened me. How do you explain that? I mean, I'm right now we're talking for other people who are listening, who have experienced that level of abuse, but they haven't found a way through.

I think the shame and the guilt is what has people in so much pain. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. But the forgiveness, the self forgiveness is where when the guilt and shame starts to fade away. You know, you still see it. You still like, wow, why did I have, why did I happen to me? What did I do? Nothing. It's happening to everybody. Yeah. So if you forgive yourself 'cause it's not your fault. No matter what you think, it's not your fault to give yourself.

And don't feel any guilt or condemnation about it. And that's in the world too, but yeah, like, I says no guilt, no guilt. No guilt, no shame. No, I'm not ashamed. I'm not going to let you this world make me feel bad anymore about something I can't do anything about. Perry. And so much of it is here, you know, it's here. I mean, I think we've come to a place in this world where we know better than to condemn the victim, right? But it's like that the conversations

that we have when we're alone in our own hearts and heads that are coming from no other place. It's coming from within. It's like the call is coming from within the house, right? Yes.

“You know, it's not a speech to the call. You gotta know. That's a lie. No. I mean, you have to talk to it”

like you talk and like we're talking. No. Shut up, stop. No, you're lying. I'm hanging out. I'm hanging out. Exactly. Like, so people be casual. Who are you talking to? Me. I'm talking to me.

No, I'm talking to me. But it's real talk. It's real live talk. And I think saying things out loud, too.

I know it's like making the pain real and putting it on the table. No, because if you keep that pain in here, no, you know, all you are just carrying it. You know, other people need to see it and hold it and share and carry that pain. I think your music does that for. I mean, I mean, just watching any audience reaction. It is you putting your pain on the table and you watch the power of what happens when other people pick it up and they will. You know, you see it every time

“you perform. Yeah, that's, that's what happened when I released my life album. Everybody said,”

wow, Mary, too. Yeah. Wow, we love her. So we can speak freely, too. Yes, you can. You don't have to

carry the secrets that's going to kill you. Why carry a secret that's going to kill you? Talk to somebody about it. Anybody doesn't have to be somebody you trust. Yeah. You know, that's how that's how you get it out. That's how to, you know, I'm just wondering, how how do you think about a alone time and loneliness? Do you ever feel alone? Do you ever feel lonely? Sometimes I'm lonely, but I'm alone a lot. Like I'm in my home a lot, but we have a good time, though. Mary and Mary,

together, we are. We have a good time. I make sure we have a good time. We both love to eat. I love to eat, right away. I love, I love snacking. I love watching movies. I love laughing. I love talking myself. I'm trying on clothes. I'll be playing music. You know, I told us, you know, some friends is something on the phone. Oh, my sister or somebody, you know, and it is what it is. I accept it is what it is. I'm not trying to have company in friends. I'm just taking it as it is. I'm just picturing

“you on your couch talking to Mary and Mary and Mary and Mary. Girl, what are you going to eat next?”

But meet talks about, she talks a lot about having a corg group of friends, though, that you can rely on so that when you are feeling whatever, alone, lonely, or you need some feedback,

some true friend, some true, some truth. Yeah. And I always listen to her because I have, you know,

guys do have a cadre of friends, but we don't talk. Well, no, they all do. We just don't talk as much. Do you have a group like that to fall back on or you fall back on Mary at the times? I have a small crew of fabulous women that are my friends. I'm fabulous. Like this type of conversation. Yeah, I mean, you're the fool. They really have my best interest. They're my family. We actually all live in the same neighborhood as you. You know, we're not

“sitting at the table and wondering who's going to pay, we're like, over the check. You know what I mean?”

Like it's not, you know, it's that. Yeah. They don't want me to pay for anything. They don't want me to do nothing. And I'm trying to pay for everything. What else? What's paying? And if I need, I use each one of them for different things because they're all built different, but we all share what, you know, what we want to share. But they're there for me. What when I need them. Yeah. Yeah, but we all find that we're at these folks over time, childhood. Have you picked up friends?

I, you know, these are my adult friendships. I've known them for about 30 years, though. I barely have any of my childhood, you know, friends. I have like two of them, one of them passed away. So I have one left. And yeah, it's just, I don't know for 30 years, they've been there and we still here. Yeah. Yeah. Good group of women. You know, I mean, in the research that I was doing, I found that you were very intentional on not having children of your own, which I think

is a pressure that a lot of women feel that they have to really talk about pressure on women. They feel like they have to have children. Can you talk about why you chose not to? I don't want to say, I said a lot of things when I was younger, because I didn't want to take

members need in babysitters and, you know, them not having a choice, you know, no freedom. So when

“you're younger, you, you, that's the choice. Those are the words you make. Those are the choices”

you make. I don't want any kids. But then when you get older, you start to see how valuable their teenagers are to them. Their kids are to them. You know, so now I was like, oh man, but at the same time I was like, oh, but I think you give, I think more and more women who are making choices for themselves, period, whatever those choices are, you know, I think I think more

men need this young men need to have more options of what it means to be human. You know,

I mean, I think the options for young boys are very narrowed. What does it mean to be a man? Right? I mean, there are pressures. It's like you got to be a competitor. You got to be, you, you got to be a winner. You have to have a certain kind of job, right? You have to not cry.

“You have to be athletic. You know, it's like still a narrow definition, even though I think more”

and more parents are raising kids young men to think broadly. Same is true for, for, for young girls. I mean, we've done more work in society. The day to help give girls more options of who they can be. You can be a leader. You can be a mommy. You can be a wife. You can be a, you know, you can be a professional. You don't have to be a mother. You know, that doesn't make you whole, you know, because just like with everything else, if you're not a whole person,

a child will not do that for you. It won't complete you. You will just now be disappointed that this other human being didn't fulfill the, the holes that were in you. And now you've got a child that feels burdened by feeling, filling your holes. You know, you got to be a whole

“person. You should, should want that even more than wanting to be a parent. You should, again,”

want to figure yourself out. You got to get to that. You got to get to that. Yeah. And don't make yourself miserable. Trying to have what someone else has. Yeah. That's their life. You have yours. This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance. A company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. When you moved to your new place, whether it was in New Jersey or DC, was there anything that you immediately did to make you feel settled or comfortable?

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Well, I want to I want to shift to fashion. Who you loving? Who you, who, like, okay, you can't tell us what you're going to wear for the residency, which I understand. But are you working with any designers that you're excited about? Who are you loving? What kind? How would you describe your

look these days? Me, I'm moving away from first lady dresses and airlines to just kind of like

look and walk period. You know, just carry it like whatever. But I know that at this age, I feel like, let me play with all facets of myself. You know, I'm not saying that who I was as first lady was not a part of me. I enjoyed the dresses and the gowns and the this and the that, but I also enjoyed enjoy a nice pair of jeans, you know, a cute little top, you know, where what are you into these days? Well, I can go from

change this big to change this big. Yes. So this is where Mary is right now. Mary is going some really soft beautiful. You see how you see my nails and I even long would all kind of, I'm just in this, wow, yeah, exploring this woman, this woman is soft and peaceful. It's still, you know, it's got a little summer. It's comfortable, you know, comfortable.

“Ooh, that's the key word, comfort, you know, just playing around with whatever I want to do.”

Now, I've done, you know, rings whenever you finger with this up to here, change it, you know,

and I can still go there. But I'm also her, which I've never really got into her.

Yeah, this her, I like this her. Yeah, like she cute, she cute girl, which are a little dainty pink nail in my life then.

that dress for comfort today, but I wanted to look a little fly, I'm like a little fly, I wanted to look a little fly. This is him looking a little fly. This is for your jacket is nice. Thank you. Mary, Jay, thank you. Your jacket is nice. That's because you're a nice boy.

But what you're watching on TV, are you a TV? Yeah, what you watching. I just finished the second

season of Paradise. Oh, yes. We had a certain thing and his wife on, they are great people, great people. But that's second season's crazy. So good, man. I can't wait. So you like the drama, types, you like the suspense kind of things. I like drama and horror. Oh,

“horror, I can't, I'm so scared of horror. I can't believe my fellow Capricorn, really, that's what I”

have to do. That's what all Capricorn's. I know we watch horror movies. I can't, I'm watching it like this. I'm, you know, in Barack, he's really, he just like, he has to warn me ahead of time. He's like,

no, you're not going like this. And I'm watching it, looking down. But it's probably glory. Like it's

bloody. I don't like horror. Okay. But I like horror like goals and demons. Like I like the conjuren. Yeah. Like, okay. I can't do this. How are you thinking about your acting? Are you producing more? You got parts coming up? You got projects that you're in that you're excited about. Oh, we're going to talk about this. Projects that are coming up. Projects that are coming,

“that are coming. Mm-hmm. And am I doing somewhat acting? I am. Yay. I am. How is that”

transition been like for you? I mean, did you feel about acting like you do about singing? Like, I know what I'm doing. I know what a good song sounds like. I know. But you're so good. Yeah, but I'm still not sure. Okay. Okay. Here in that. Yeah. The insecure phase of your acting. Okay. Yeah. I'm not like. I'm not Angela Bassett or um, metal street. Yes. Yeah. Mary, you're trying to figure it out. People are like, oh, you're so great. You're so good. And my

mind I'm like, not yet. Do you like watching yourself? No, I don't. Yeah. I don't like, I don't like looking at myself. But I do because I have to. It's, it's, it's work. I don't. He's looking at me because I don't. Yeah. I still hate it. But I have to. And I see the, I'm cringing like, oh, man, I've got to fix that. I have to fix this at the fix that. But yeah, I have to look at it. Yeah. Yeah. And there's some time to look at it and be like, yeah, I'm not that bad. Right.

That's right. I'm pretty good. Right. Yeah. You start to see what you need and what you don't need. Yeah. The shelves like me, what I was younger, I hated sounding my voice. Did you? Oh, my God, I hate it. Even your thinking voice. Sing everything. I just read it. Every, I just hate everything about me. Now I'll be listening to Mary J. Blas, more than other. Everybody listen. Like, it's, I'm listening to my stuff. I'm like, wow, it's like, man, I'm really good. It's really good.

It's like, it's like, listen, it's so not ours. Look what I missed out on. Do you have a favorite album? Yeah, my life album is one of my favorite. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a good good. You have good taste. You got your taste in Mary. I do. Who also you love and these days artists. So many people right now. I love her. Oh, yeah. I love her. And she's a sweetheart. Yes. She's beautiful. Yeah. I want to show you that. No, I'm just guessing. Yeah. We got to get, okay, Gab, I got to get you. I'm going to work on, but she's a sweetheart.

But she's shy too. Yes. Yes. It's very, very, very, very quiet. Yeah. I love her. Her, I love Alex Isley.

“Jasmine Sullivan. I was trying to get to her concert. Miss that. Miss that. That's what I still love.”

I love going to concerts. Now I will. Yeah. Oh, we'll see now. I'm going to be. I said, I'm just like, you

always thinking, yeah, I, if I had to do answer this question, who am I listening to. Refires. I like Teddy swims.

I, I'm liking Tim's. I love Tim's. Oh, yeah. Love don't you? Yeah. I'm some a walker. I mean, I just love raw talent. Somebody that can, you know, with, with without a band,

inauguration. I was gonna, I was gonna ask you. That was, wow. It was so nice. But the actual,

“the actual inauguration. Yeah. That's right. That was, yeah. Wow. Yeah. No, that's how we felt too.”

One of the greatest moments in my career. And seeing you guys, you know, before he goes up and, yeah, you know, that was, yeah. That was big. And thank you. And I'm sitting here with you. This is

great. I know. It's good. It's like the first time, you know, the, the time I remember most,

because the inaugurations are just, you know, and I'm nervous. And I'm, but at the state dinner, when you performed with the French president, oh, yeah. Remember, see there, that you like me. It's like, oh, yeah. I did do that. I did do that. You performed all, we were sitting right there. Right in the front. Like right here. Yeah. It's like, I was nervous. I was like, go, girl.

“Oh, did you feel me? Cheers. You all, I'm sorry. You, I saw both of y'all. Do you still get nervous?”

I do. But not like that. Like, guys, president, first lady, y'all right here. Oh, and my mind, I could think of, is what, what, what a train wreck I was. No, what, really, what a mean train wreck. I, I please don't make me talk about it. It's, it's, it's, it's all the you know what my life was at that very moment. Okay. But just notice, I'm here. I'm better. And I'm here again with you. Yes, you know, better mind frame and a better, everything is better. Yes. Oh, better. But see,

the thing is, it's like in that mind frame, you were still amazing. I mean, and that's the thing. They like you. That's the work. Thank you. Because it's like, I've been rooting for you forever. You know, and I thank you. I know through your story, through your songs, what you've been through, what you've been caring and what you've been trying to grow from. But all the while,

you are always enough. You will thank you always more than enough. It's like, I'm just blessed that

you are at the point now. And sometimes it takes time. It takes age to own this. That I can see that you can see what we all saw. Yeah. She knows what she's doing. And you know that now. And you are offering that to so many people, you know, that insight, that, you know, that acceptance, you know, that growth. And doing it through music. Oh, just it stays with you. You can carry it. We can carry it with us. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, my good. Thank you so much.

It made me blush. Oh, we will shift. Because now we're shift to somebody else. Because we like to take time on IMO to help some other people. Okay. And we have a listener question from your neck of the woods in New York, Maria from New York. I have a good friend who is recently engaged to her boyfriend who I unfortunately cannot stand. I feel like my friend is a different person around him. And I worry, our relationship won't survive if she stays with this guy.

He's so emotionally immature. And every time I see her with him, she's basically having to appease all his moods. He gets annoyed by practically everything. As her friend, do you think I can say something to her and how or do I have to let things just take their course, Maria from New York, and she's in her mid 30s? Okay. Does it sound like she's in any type of danger? It doesn't sound like so I just don't like this guy. I think she should. I think she should just chill. Don't say anything.

Let life take his course because she can end up without a friend. Don't say anything. Just love it through it. If she asks you something, then you speak to her about it. Don't give you two cents if she don't ask you. I completely agree. Completely. No. In thinking about this,

I think about, I was thinking about it from a guy's standpoint, obviously. And I've always felt like

“you have to be really careful when you give people advice about a loved one. Because what”

happens is they will forgive the person before you forgive the person and they will forgive the person before they will forgive you. And to your point, you could lose a very good friend if you don't hold

I like what you ask first is is she in danger? Right. Because that's an important caveat.

You know, I mean, because sometimes, you know, if this, if this were a more urgent situation, you know, I don't, I don't think we can. I wouldn't want to see my friend in harm's way. Right.

“You know, I think I would risk the friendship if it were a situation where he just wasn't a jerk,”

but he was a dangerous jerk. Right. You know, but if he was just a jerk, what would you do? I probably would not unless ask. I mean, please, she would say something. She would say something. But I like what I like. But I'm just saying, I think you would say something. Why would I like that? I'm not saying

your line. I just say, you, you, I think you would. I mean, situations like this all the time, you know,

we're friends. I mean, I have to be, I have to be, I more importantly have to be careful about what I say about people. Now, if somebody asks me which people do, what do you think of blah, blah, I people ask me all the time. I don't know whether maybe nobody's asking you what you think, but people ask

“me what I think all the time. Now, if you ask me, I will say tell the truth. I'm not going to,”

I'm not going to be like, he's great. You know, if it's a serious question, if they're showing doubt and, you know, but no, if somebody seemed happy in their situation and I don't particularly

like them, you know, they might see it because I'm not going to be around you, you know, they might

get the hint. You know, I might limit my amount of time being around that person, which might mean that I'm limiting my time being around my friend because, you know, you know, your friend can make a choice and you can make a choice too. You know, I mean, you can love somebody from a distance, you know, if this person is toxic to your space and she loves them, doesn't have to be toxic to my space. Right. Yeah, because I also have to protect my energy, too,

you know, it's like, and you know, nine tons of 10 people do what they want to do when it comes to love, you know, you, you, you, you, you do learn that, you know, you can't talk people out of anything. When it comes to how they feel, people make some oftentimes make up their minds. Their minds are ready made up and you can see it, you know, I mean, if the, if the guy is an obvious jerk, nine times out of 10, she knows it. Yep, she knows it. It's like unless she's blind, you know, it's like,

well, you see it, you know, so if you like it, I love it, you know, if it's not hurting you, but don't ask me. Maria, I hope that was helpful. Oh, yeah. Say, oh, yeah, there was a person behind that question. Sorry, Maria, that was for you. Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you. Thank you for taking the time to be with us. It is, you know, you, you were just, you were blessing your gift. Thank you, Michelle, and

“great, great, great. That's how you remember. Thank you, great. Thank you both for having me.”

This was a blessing. Thank you so much. Yeah, and you were going to kill it on the residency. I'm going to do my best to get out there. We'll get the dates to make sure we share the right dates with the, all the things, but I know it's going to be the bomb. Yes, it is. Yes, so it's like it's Jordan speaking. Jordan going. This is a Jordan. I'm going out on the course. But thanks for taking the time, babe, and we will, we will see you out there for sure.

Yeah, for sure. Just a leg. No. Would I break no less? I thought that was what? No, we're not breaking legs. We just say the power words. Okay. All right, no break. Thank you. Thank you, Mary J. Blood. Thank you, you, babe. Oh, mama. Greg. This was great. Have fun. All right. Good. Good. Thanks again to Lily for sponsoring this episode.

I'm Emma Greed. Host of Aspire with Emma Greed. The podcast where I sit down with

just wait until you hear their episode on my show. Michelle told me about the moment at 26

“when she lost her father and her best friend in the same year. It made a walk away from her corporate”

lawyer to figure out her why. That's the kind of conversation you get on Aspire. We talk about mindset

ambition and doing the work that actually moves the needle. So if you're ready to raise your standards

“and take charge of the life you're building, Aspire is where you start. Follow and listen to Aspire”

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