Patent Leather Boots and Purpose with Keke Palmer

I mean, being first lady, this is, this is, it's been, Barack would look at the clothing bill.

“Have you like girl? I'd like to do it. I'm like, dude, just stand down. Just stand down, dude.”

Everybody. Wow! What an honor it is to be here with you, Mrs. Obama. Every time I get to spend time with you, I'm so just thrilled. I love you, Kiki. I love you back. Thank you for being here, babe. And obviously we're so happy to be here with you guys at SS Fest in New Orleans. You, right? Yes.

You all alive and looking good. I was just going to say that. I mean, we are here to talk about the look, your incredible book.

And everything that it means to establish a look, right? We are all wearing fashion. I see beautiful women and men. I see the fellas are out there doing their thing. So, I want to give my hats off to you guys for bringing that fabulous city tonight for us. I'm so excited. I think I also have to tell them, even though I know it's still under wraps a little bit with higher ground. Obviously you're company. Yes. We're working on a movie, y'all. This is going to be good. I'm so excited starting. Kiki. And higher ground. It's amazing. I'm so excited.

Great. For that you're going to be a part of that project, babe. Yes. I don't want to tell you guys too much, but it involves basketball and Aubrey Plaza. So you're going to imagine some comedy. So keep a look out for that. We'll keep you guys posted. Well, you know, in talking about the look, talking about black women, black people,

“culture, setting trends. What was so important about it for you to create this book to talk about?”

What we, how to own what we put out into the world? Ooh. As, as we all know, how we show up in the world says a whole lot about sometimes how we're

treated. What kind of respect we have. And during my eight years this first lady, I made it a

point not to talk about fashion. Because I didn't want my eight years to be just about the shoes I wore or the dress I was in. I wanted people to see who I was and what I was doing. And as a woman, a lot of times we are talked about about how we look first before what we say. Absolutely. And so, but fashion was a big part of what I did. I mean, I made it a point to think really strategically about how I showed up. So the look is now my opportunity to share that journey

because I do love fashion and I did make a point of thinking through strategically how I needed to show up in the world as the first black first lady. Yes. And so the look. Yeah. Takes you on that journey. I love that because the look is not only being defined by what you look like on the outside, but the agency you have with how you show up and how much that is allowed to define who you are. So many different levels to that. I want to as we go down that journey of the

look with you. I want to start at the top. Take me back to the South Side of Chicago. You know, when we think about your personal style back then, when you were Michelle Robinson. Yes. You know, what what what what was your look? How would you get up and get dressed? What did you think about fashion at that? You know, girl when I was growing up, my style was broke. Okay. It was just broke working girl. You know, my style was a lot of no, right? Because Marion Robinson, my mother, she pinched a pinning.

You know, so she wasn't really into fashion. So I was one of those young girls who was always

I wish, you know, if I had the money, if I could, you know, if I really had full control over my own look, I could dream about what I wanted to wear. But we didn't grow up being able to afford

“much of anything. You know, we were shopping at Sears and Robux, you know, Garanamos. What was on sale?”

I remember Sears Tower growing up and I got out. I was so sick of Sears growing up. But I did, I grew up on the south side with a ton of fashion. I mean, who were some of your inspiration? They were all the girls in the neighborhood. You know, I mean, I was always looking up to that girl just older than me. You know, the little cutie that'd be sitting on the side

with her glory of Vanderbilt jeans and her chains laid. You know, I knew what fashion and style

was. But when I was young, we just couldn't afford it. I used to always want to wear a pair of white

pattern leather go-go boots. Come on, go-go boots because I was watching like get Christy Love Foxy Brown. I mean, those fine black women and those little mini skirts and those boots that just zipped up. I mean, speaking of the look, I think that also feels like power. When I think about those kind of the boots, I think about an Afro. I think about a leather jacket with a little peppling

“to it. Oh, my God. That makes me think about power. Indeed. Maybe that's what I was thinking. I was”

channelling some get Christy Love. I was going to shoot somebody up. But Marion Robinson wasn't having that. She was like, it wasn't practical to wear pattern leather boots when there was 10 inches of snow. So I was stuck my little rubber boots. Yeah, and it's interesting when we see what is represented on television or music. What's actually possible for us in our day-to-day life, especially when we think about my people that are minority. People might think, oh, the White House is your first

experience dealing with big institutions. But obviously, it's not. You were in college at Princeton and Harvard. Being in predominantly white spaces was something that you were very, you know, well at navigating. But when you think about those early years of yourself in college,

“what role did fashion or your look play then? Like when you first entered those spaces?”

You know, I was probably more focused on the academic spectrum. I mean, you know, I went to college broke. We were on financial aid. I was on work study. You know, I had the clothes that I had. You know, I came with my Levi's and my polo shirts and my Levi jeans jacket. I just didn't have the time or the money to focus too much on what I look like. You know, and I think that's true for a lot of college kids. You know, I mean, you just, you're away from home for the first time.

You're trying to figure out where to get your hair done in a white space. I mean, that was like a big deal going to a white school in a white neighborhood. It was like, where am I getting my hair done? I was more focused on that than I was what I was getting what I was wearing. But my focus in college was trying to make sure I showed up and got those grades. So there were classmates of mine who came for more from more affluence who came with the preppy look and they had all the clothes.

And some of these kids were black. But most of the black kids at Princeton when I was going, we were all just trying to get through. You know, we were really focused. We didn't have time to focus on our look. I really, really relate to this, especially when I think about me and the early years coming up in the industry, where you think, I mean, obviously, I had glam and fashion,

all that thing was thought of. But I didn't always have a lot of money to have the best styling

and to get the best clothes. So my way of surviving or being able to thrive in those spaces was just being really good at the job. You know, it's just like, I'm going to show up. I'm going to do something. And you're not going to think about if I have on Louis Vuitton or not, even if I have on off thing or whatever it is. At what point did you start being able to even open yourself up to thinking about how fashion could support you on your journey to success? You know, it really wasn't until

“the, I started campaigning for Baroque in the presidential race. Because the truth is that while”

I was a professional, went to law school, worked at a big firm. I did a lot of jobs. Again,

once again, my focus was on the work. My focus was on the career and I always thought the outfit,

I wore what I needed to wear to get the job done. Right. So when I was a corporate attorney back in the 90s, when I was practicing, we had those ugly women suits, these 90 suits with a big shoulder pads. So I was just going to wear the uniform that I needed to get the job done. And so when I first went out on the campaign trail in Iowa, fashion became an important part of something I had to think about because I had to be organized. Yeah. I mean, if you think about

what I was doing when I had two little kids, I was still working a full-time job, I was a vice president of community affairs at the University of Chicago hospitals. I would campaign three days a week.

get on the first flight out of Chicago into Iowa. I'd land in Iowa campaign all day and that would

meant I might do five rallies, three fundraisers. And I'd do as much as I could to get to the last flight out of Iowa to get back to Chicago in time for dinner with the girls. So I was usually just wearing one outfit. It was given Steve Jobs. It was one of those, it had to be like, it's a sweater, it's a vest, it's a fundraiser, now I'm at a fair and you know, it had to be able, it had to be versatile for the whole day. But then I realized at this pace, I don't have,

I didn't have time to think about clothes and that was the first time I met a designer. This woman Maria Pinto, I was introduced to her, she was a young designer in Chicago and that was the first time I met somebody who owned their own fashion line and they made clothes and I really went to her because it was convenient. I could do one stop shopping, I could go to her, she had my measurements, this is when I was wearing those sheath dresses that were silk, sleeveless, she made those.

Those were Maria Pinto designs and I could go to her, get fit it, have a set of clothes that I didn't have to think about. So Kiki, when I was fashion was something that I was trying not to think about. Right, I had to be organized enough and have enough resources so that I could put on clothes, it's not have to think about it, know that I look good and look presentable because this is when people were starting to write about me, right? And that makes me curious if when you understood

the power of it and maybe it didn't even come up first positively, maybe it was the power of seeing

“how people were writing up about you because of what you were. Do you remember a moment in time?”

Oh, I remember the first big speech I gave in Iowa, it was packed. I mean, I was pulling more crowds than most of Barack's opponents. Okay, not clapping. But it was interesting, the more popular I became, the more of a threat I became. It was interesting, that's when the article started coming out. I had been campaigning for more than a year and then it was, this is when I understood like, this is politics, oh, they're coming after me because I'm useful. And they're trying to be

my husband, so they're trying to slow me down, right? And some of those first articles,

they would always start. She was wearing a purple sheep and she had on this pair of shoes.

It wouldn't matter what I say at Kiki, the article would start with what I had on. Wow. And I realized, oh, this is how they do women in politics. This is how we treat women in public life. We diminish them to just what they look like. And not what I'm saving now. I'm given impassioned

“speeches. I think people know now that I can give a speech. Okay. That wasn't just, that didn't just”

start happening. You know, I was, I was always really good on the campaign trail. I was always a powerful order. And I was, I was good at it because my topic was good. It was about my husband. So I could, I'll tell you some good about that man. There's like, give me a mic. You come on, give me a mic. Give me a mic. Let me tell you something. Get that moment, right? Because there's two things that's happening. It's where the campaign, I have to be strategic

for good reason, right? I have to understand what I'm going up against. But then I also have to still be mean, right? I imagine there's a part of you that was like, I want to do what needs to be done. But like, I still want to be true to me. How did you waver the balance of how to create the look around your agency and what your husband and you all needed for it for, you know,

what you ended up becoming in the presidency? You know, holding on to who I was was never hard for me.

“I mean, that was, I think a lot of that had to do with age. I mean, we weren't coming into this.”

While we were young to be president and first lady, we were in our, let me get the math, right? We were in our 40s, but you already have to so much. Exactly. We were fully, we were fully broken. I were fully formed people. You know, I had had five, six careers. I was the mother of two. I had ran organizations. I had worked in almost every sector. I've been a corporate attorney. I was an assistant to the mayor. I was the vice president of community affairs, y'all. I ran stuff.

And I had more to say because a lot of people think that obviously working in the White House being under that institution is a huge deal. It's a huge job as a public servant. But to understand all the things you did to get you there were quite primed and ready. Right. I mean, when I wrote becoming, it was interesting that when I was talking to the publishers about what kind of book I

wanted to write, this first lady book, of course, they thought we're going to talk about the

eight years in the White House. And I was like, well, if I'm going to let people know who I am, those eight years, that was just a piece of a greater story. You know, the eight years in the White House, the time that Barack and I were president and first lady, that doesn't fully define us as

“people. You know, we lived long lives, long full lives, right? So I think because we were able to bring”

that level of confidence and experience into the job, even as young as we were, I think that helped me. And I think it's more difficult for younger people. Like, I do. I mean, you were you amaze me that you're a level of employees and confidence because you had to develop yourself in the public eye. I mean, you were a baby figuring this out and trying to hold onto that as you're building it. That's a different challenge, right? I really appreciate that. Yeah. And so I love this girl

because she carries herself like an old soul. And that is not that is not easy to do. It really means a lot. I've had a lot of great examples. I feel really blessed in my life to be able

to see women such as yourself up close in person. I'll remember when I first met you,

Sasha and Malia. It was at a big worldwide world day to play. I was going to check MVP at the time. And it was one of the best experiences ever. So I got to see your grace up close. And of course, watch you, the whole presidency and so your big inspiration to me. This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance, a company committed to helping people

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“So then that becomes the question. I think we all would want to understand how to distill something”

from which is when is it time to stop reshaping a space and building your own? Or does something you do simultaneously? I think it's a process and it changes at different times in your life and it changes at different points of leverage in your life. That word leverage because we don't

always have leverage to control the spaces that we're in and that's okay because sometimes you're

developing leverage. I mean I tell a lot of young people yeah you want to come into a new job with confidence and owning some stuff but you also have to earn the right to have an opinion. You know I'm sorry I want my young people to be empowered but sometimes you know you got opinions. You gotta pay your dues right? So for me there were times when I felt like a space wasn't quite right for me but I didn't have the leverage to change it you know and that was okay

I mean I wasn't upset by it I understood right and I also needed a job you know I tell people don't don't don't mess up your money right I mean sometimes you don't have leverage because you don't have power

“because you need to be in a space that also feels quite objective because I think we sometimes”

personalize our value in the workspace which can really slow us up but if you use that objectivity and you say to yourself look right now I don't have the leverage but if I learn what I learn I stay here for five six months I figure out what I need to figure out I can take this money

or I can take this experience and I can flip it somewhere else. You never want the circumstances

to push you out of a situation that you need to be in right so sometimes you know it's like look my I grew up watching working class pairs my father worked a city job his whole life he was probably not happy he didn't get paid enough but he had a family afford to take care of and he got up every day and he put up with a whole bunch of stuff my dad too and I think about my father's and our father's journey before I get so upset about a situation that I'm just going I'm going

“blow it up for myself right but I believe that showing up in a situation with excellence like”

every job that I've done whether they've accepted me I've been ready for it I've tried to learn from it and show up in a way that they wanted me to stay right it's like so if I'm leaving you I'm going to leave you wanting me to stay right I'm going to leave when I'm ready to leave and then as you grow and build more power and leverage that's when I found that I could I had the opportunity to shape my own environment yes like when I finally left working for city government I left

to run my own nonprofit and when I left that I was working at as an assistant to the mayor and then the assistant to the commissioner planning and economic development I was working for someone right I was someone's assistant so I lived under their culture and their rules because they were the boss now I got to a point where I thought could I run my own thing you know and my good enough and my strong enough to take an idea and grow an organization myself built my own culture and

shape my own organization I left to do that that's when I ran it started a nonprofit organization that's when I was able to shape culture and dress and I let you a little down too because I think a lot of times we get caught up you know I see a lot of times online with what it means to be a CEO

wanted to pursue is to create a culture to create a space to find by your beliefs your concepts

“to support your mission that's what drove you to realizing I should start my own thing that's”

right you know as opposed to I just want to be the boss of something right that's an important distinction you work your way up to power I mean like I want to solve as as black people as women empower to own our spaces but you really get to own it when it's yours right and sometimes we get to do that and sometimes we don't I've been fortunate enough to be in positions where

I've run my own organization and then being the first lady of the United States is basically

being the CEO of the section of the White House right and that's when I was able to say this is what this will be while I meant at the helm right but I still had to think about the role itself you know so when it came to fashion look so to speak you know I've written about the fact that where where my hair and braids I started where my hair and braids and college right but as I went up the professional ranks being a lawyer they wanted you know I didn't want my hair to be a

part of the conversation I wanted to get the job so I was straightening my hair just like everybody in the every black woman in the 80s and the 90s because of the year ago so it definitely was something that was held in half that freedom so I made the decision you know look America is struggling

enough to accept the first black president and first lady I'm not going to make my hair the issue

you know that was a choice you know I was like we need to get health care passed you know we need to

“focus on getting kids educated and making sure that the delineating what is most important that”

process of delineation of what do I should lean here shall be that level of responsibility and objectivity it's really major and it was about something more than what I wanted right when I'm as first lady of the United States it wasn't about what I needed to look like I needed to show up in the way that the country needed me to show up wow right and that was that wasn't a sacrifice you know that was just like this is the job the job we are here is to

serve the nation to be a representative of this country to serve it proudly not to make my hair my clothes my shoes the story but I did realize the power that I could do with that platform to lift up fashion in a very different way and so I was like all right if everybody's looking at my shoes then I'm going to wear a designer that could use the attention right I mean instead of choosing Dior for my inaugural gown I chose Jason Wu he was an immigrant he was young he his story

mattered in a way that I knew that choosing him to make my gown would change his life in a way that some of those long time designers you know it's like you had your turn and I also love that

“you would be wearing J crew I mean I don't remember that as a teenager in the lady will be like”

she's wearing a gray crew I love J crew how do you go talk about J crew when your wife wears gray J crew like I love that because it's like that is a universal affordable very nice line I remember that being such a big topic growing up because it was accessible yeah you know and people felt like they could relate to you like she she shops where I shop well fashion is like that you know fashion is high in it's designers but it's also it's also the beautiful stores at the mall that

get us through the J crew's the banana republics you know on a call I used to love call out about that at 14 exactly all of that is about the American experience and I was like well and I did not wear a lot of European designers not because I don't love European design but I am the American first lady so I'm gonna rep U.S. brands so when we would travel abroad I was like I'm gonna wear an American designer if we were in India it was an Indian immigrant American designer

I mean there were so many ways to work around representation that if you're by being thoughtful and strategic about how we wanted to show up and and reping black designers Tracy Reese

Sergio Hudson that's my guy right I mean they're just so many amazing minority women designers that

think about the cost of some of these clothes I mean being first lady is this is expect Barack

would look at the clothing bill if you like girl I'm like dude just just stand down just stand down dude don't look at my clothes though do you remember the first the look you were on your first date who are first date you know what I I don't I know there was a deep cut I you know I remember

“what I was wearing when we had our first kiss oh my gosh it was the details I do remember that”

now I hope he's happy that I remembered that even before the first day but I remember it because we were going to us he was a summer associate at the law firm I was working for so they had the summer associate outing at a partner's house in the upperty rich part of Chicago and one of the Northern suburbs so we had gone out there for the day and played basketball and volleyball and all that and I gave him a ride because he had a janky car and I was driving a stop so I was like

you want to ride with me so I had to take him back and he was like are you busy and I was like I got a little time and we went on a walk down 53rd street and stopped to get ice cream I was wearing black biker shorts and this black and gold stripe top and it was like a ball and it was sort of

“a long t-shirt okay I remember that clearly because we wouldn't got ice cream and sat outside the ice cream”

a place on the curb I had chocolate and he leaned over and he said can I have a kiss he asked he asked me girls girl I see the movie now I don't know who the man is but I'm you the love the love the love store kick you palm as Michelle Obama I'm here for that moment okay my publishers here you know they're working on that now they're gonna start that I need the romance I wanted to get the love story yes oh that is so special I remember what I had on I mean your life

has gotten has been so public I mean it can never really go backwards and I know I'm always hearing

this you say this when we talked on my on your podcast when we talked on my podcast when we're talking right now you seem to have no qualms about protecting your inner world in your sense of self I want to distill that for the audience like how what is that process for you how do how does one protect their inner selves being so perceived and now we have it on the internet even if you're not an entertainer or you don't decide to be a public figure yeah every single one of us is being perceived

constantly and once you are perceived or you are viewed you change right once you you're not who you are in your room alone when somebody's watching you you become someone else so how does one preserve that sense of self you know it it's becoming more and more difficult with AI social media I mean you know just to put it in perspective kiki when when we entered the White House there was no social media there was social media did not exist and thank god it did not right we had blackberries y'all

remember the blackberries I mean they didn't let Barack as the president have an iPhone because

“it was a security risk right so I think first of all that helped a bit because social media was just”

starting right yeah we were the first presidency coming into being at the beginning of social media so I think that helped a little bit so I wasn't used to being able to know everything that everybody said about me right that wasn't a possibility right you you know what you got feedback on came through the press it was an article written and it would be an article right you weren't getting 24 hour news feeds you didn't have a comment section to listen to so fortunately for me

I didn't even grow up needing that in a way that this generation does so another layer to it you're bringing up so when it became part of my reality social media I wasn't addicted to it right I didn't I didn't need it it wasn't on my phone I'm still not in the habit of looking at social media I'm

on it but not of it you know what I'm saying and I'm always warning young people to very be very

many people access to your heart and your mind and the only way you can control it is to not be in it

“and you can be on it but don't have it on your phone and I just never did so I just didn't get in the”

habit I would I had a whole communications team I could get press clips I could get them I could get them summarized and laid out without knowing the depths of everybody's thought right and that's good and bad right you know if you get too much of the good you get distorted if you get too much of the bad you get distorted and I also knew that if people weren't getting me right I couldn't trust it to tell me about you I mean I wouldn't trust social media to tell me about my worst enemy

because it wouldn't be a clear depiction it wouldn't be real it wouldn't be right now so how do I protect my space I just really protect it I don't I don't let just anybody into my space I don't

listen to comments from people who don't know me I never would do that and I just like I try to get

my daughters just don't touch it it's like it's the dynamite right yeah so that's one way in other way that I protect my space is who I let in it you know it's like my community my friends my people I mean Barak and I have been very good about the people who have been with us we bring them along you know Barak his best friends are still his guys from high school I mean he's got a crew guys from Hawaii who are with him like this I've got girlfriends from law school to mothers that I

rates my girls with those are my rider die people the people who know us outside of this before we were ever this and those are the people who I talk to and I'm having wine with who I'm breaking stuff down with you know those that's where I get my connection how am I doing I would get that from my mother I mean having my mother in the White House now Mary and Robinson will keep a person grounded because she wouldn't press about anything and having her there that I could just sit down

with and look in the eye and be like am I still the Michelle you knew and she would tell me the truth

“so I think it's who we surround ourselves with the company we keep and I keep expanding I mean”

when I find good people like you I scoop you up all right so you get old enough where you start trusting your judgment right you I tell my girls you got good judgment so be open to new people because some of the best people in my life are people that I met during the White House years and beyond right I've made some good friends over the last 10, 15 years and if I had been closed off to them I wouldn't know them but let me tell you as quickly as you let people in you got to be good

with letting them out when they show you who they are and they will show you you know the older you get the more you recognize oh oh you don't you know you don't have me in mind right you not on my team so you start learning to trust those instincts and you don't have to be rude about it I call it the slow ghost you know you just slowly let people out of your life you don't have to make a big deal out of you don't have to tell nobody off you just slowly

disappear like a ghost so I'm hearing obviously keep a good circle around you that also helps you to maintain grounded and reflect your truth back to you we don't let too many people in again with social media there's a thing you read and you just assume that that's somehow that person's valley don't know they don't know you they don't know you

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in terms of you know we're bringing up Sasha Malia your amazing daughters

and young women in general coming up online saying so many conflicting things around beauty I mean I would be remiss not to connect that to what we're talking about with the look how do young women properly define their value and their relationship to beauty when on one side they're saying you need this thing you need that thing you need this makeup you need this hair and then the other

“in is like inner beauty you know but you need to have glass into like how it's so much coming at them it is”

it is and it's not right it's not right I mean what I try to do to my with my daughters and a lot of the young girls in my life I just remind them that they are being marketed to you know that this is like this is about money all right somebody telling you to buy this lip gloss this do this try that it's all it's all your algorithm so I just try to talk honestly and seriously with them about how the economy works and how the beauty industry works I try to lift them up you know I've broken

I tell our daughters we have told our daughters from the day they were born that they were beautiful and more importantly smart yes and worthy and we just keep saying it over and over again what I'm meet some young girls I met some beautiful young girls backstage and all I wanted them to know

I try to feed into them whatever is being sucked out of them on the other end but it is an easy we don't set it up so that it is easy for young girls to find themselves in the midst of all of this but I try to get my daughters to stay off social media to not read the comments to do other things other than be on their phones but I also want them to feel good about playing in their beauty and I mean you know like having had the experience of being so looked at in the white house

“they still have such unique style I remember I was saying as soon as I seen them I was like I love”

your fashion I was saying it's so very different they're very different oh my god yeah you know what I mean really on as long as we grab it it's like I live with their fashion but I wanted them to play

in that space so I was like yeah try that try that you know um they're dead I didn't always

understand it sometimes he's like why she wearing those lashes I was like let her play it's not gonna be that important in a minute you know I mean so there is also fun and beauty you know it should be it should be fun so it's it's like striking a balance that you know I try not to comment too much you know if they look good I'm like okay you're playing in that space I just try not to judge it now our deal when we were in the White House was that because I understood how social

media and the press would go after them as like when you're with us that was really the only time that was the deal we have with the White House press corps is that you cannot take photos or write about the girls in their private life but if they were doing an official thing with us okay that's when you saw them at the Christmas tree lighting or when we were seeing Nelson Mandela or they were on an official trip but they had to be dressed for that I was like you can have us say but you

got to work with somebody on what you're going to wear because you got to wear a certain thing when you go see the pope you know you can't show up with your belly out when you see the pope so I'm not going to leave that to a 13 year old it's like no you don't get to choose because you

“don't know what you're doing right and you have to think about the look very aspect of it so we”

had to deal that when you were on in your first child role we all it was a cooperative effort in terms of what they dress how they look they had to say but it had to be signed off on by people like their mother and somebody with some sense but in their regular lives as little girls they chose their prom dresses they chose what they wore to school they chose how they did their hair and their nails and I was like you play all you want and I wanted them to play and to get used to

what their style was and to make mistakes you know all teenagers look back on their pictures and they think oh my god what was I thinking but you need those moments it's like yeah that was a

little crazy I started playing more after because I was always a little duggy house or vibe

“everything when I was a teenager I always had a blazer on I was really the VP I was tired of that”

when I look back on my pictures I was doing what I'm gonna open I'm here I'm in my first party like go away I don't know a lot of the series chat did you get to choose all of your fashion or when you were I was very I was very stressed as again you know because I felt so much response to the ability yeah and I started to hear very early on because they adults or people will come my daughter looks up to you and you I'm watching you baby and I'm like oh no

the auntie's I got it you know so I was always trying to just you know but then it got to a point

where there was a little too much black girl magic which is like oh I was trying to hand over you I was always at church and I was just trying so hard to make sure that I made everyone proud that it I was not living for me yeah so I had to kind of redefine the list is what I was talking about I mean that burden it's like mine you know I was a grown woman I could be a duggy house or if I needed to I mean you were growing up you were trying to figure it out and I tried

to do the opposite of that I didn't but that was that was also your job you were also in the profession and that was a choice that you made because you enjoyed that Malian Sasha didn't choose it right I think that was also that's also a different thing so I didn't want them to feel like they

know and I love hearing you talk about that because you know I got my son he's three and he's

“gonna grow up now with you know people know oh your mom is kiki Palmer whatever that means and”

whatever comes with that and so I love hearing you talk about responsibility and legacy with how you do with Sasha and Malia because it makes me think about how I want to be able to also articulate

those nuances to my son for him to have freedom to understand what it means but also never feel like

what I've taken on is something that he is yes so it is very um and you don't and you don't have to be Michelle Obama or kiki Palmer to feel that if you are a parent that has a child that you feel is feels pressured to follow in your footsteps we all as parents are trying to figure out that balance of letting our kids be who they want to be without them being minimise so it's the same struggle y'all it's just at a it's just that our struggle is on TV yeah it's so true I always feel like

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I know you know assimilating through I think it's too is too self-conscious I think thriving through it means that you really are in your purpose in the moment like when you're in your purpose in the moment nothing else matters and let me give you an example when I'm with kids

and when I was first lady working with kids what is was will always be my joy my heart

I can break down now just talking about the the value and worth of every child right man and when I am with young people I am there I am in it it doesn't matter what I have on in fact the clothes I have on they better not get in the way of that interaction because the more important thing is not what I look like but how do I make that kid feel and if I'm all stuffy and in some dress that can't be touched and can't be wrinkled I am not in my purpose right

so in those moments the clothes have to facilitate the thing I'm trying to do which is connect with this kid right now and if that means I got to get on the floor you know if I'm got to get down to their level if that means we're going to do a push up together we're going to run around or somebody's going to want to sit on my lap or give me a sloppy little hug then the clothes have to be ready for that and that's I would tell my stylist that all the time it's like if

kids are around don't put me in something precious because you know the minute a child comes I'm

“on the floor I am doing whatever I have to do to connect and I think that that's when you're no”

longer conscious you're no longer self-conscious right losing yourself in the purpose whatever that you used you know whatever accumulating you to that point that got you prepared once you're in it that all disappears that's right that's right it should you yourself disappears into

the work that's important right and when it comes to clothes the clothes are not there never the

point for me you know I love to look cute I love a pretty dress but if I'm in a dress and a child doesn't feel like they can connect to me then what's the point you know if if my dress is saying more than what I'm trying to say to some young person then get it off of me it's not it is not

“serving me and it's no longer important to me right and I think that for me it's children I think”

each and every one of us has to find when we find that thing that is so deep in us the thing that moves us so much all the external stuff how we look how we move all that becomes secondary to the purpose and I think that that for me is what helps me stay present and not be self-conscious because if I'm doing what I'm supposed to do it if I'm changing a life or my move making a move if I'm making somebody feel seen especially a young person then I don't care what somebody says about me

that seems like a great way to also figure out if you are in fact doing the thing you should be doing because maybe if I'm not able to lose myself in it like that then it isn't for me to begin with

and again we don't always all get to live in our purpose right I think we strive to live there

but again reality sets in right these are high class problems I get to pick and choose now right and some most of us don't get to live in our purpose we got to do what we got to do to keep it together it is hard that doesn't mean we don't strive for it but you know I don't want

“to set it up in a way like I know what real life is right I know that my father my father was an”

artist my father got a scholarship to the art institute he could have been a great artist but some of his work is now up at the Presidential Center a piece of art that I didn't even know he did I didn't see it until it was there my father was talented gifted he was an artist he did not live in his purpose right but he but he made us his purpose he made his children his purpose right and I think that made himself conscious I think it made him forget about his limp I think it made him forget

about the fact that he was a blue collar worker I think it made him forget about all the things that he

are a lot of people out there I think most people most of our parents and our grandparents who don't get to do what they want to do because of racism limitations lack of opportunity they don't get to live their purpose and then we their offspring become their purpose well what you just broke down was just so dope as well because sometimes we assume that what we are gifted with is our purpose right we talented we can sing we can do this we don't want our purpose actually could be something that

“that is my children or this this community center or this I think that is so important which”

you said because a lot of times we're taught that value in purpose is predicated on how much attention it brings or how much money it makes and that's how famous you are right that's new to this generation right so I think there are many ways to get lost and to become less self conscious about the spaces that you're in if you're going to a job where somebody is treating you badly but you know that check is going to get your kids a college there are a lot of people I know who put up with some

crazy stuff because they are keeping their eye on the prize they're not dealing in their own happiness or fulfillment or meaning I know they're men and women out here today who are getting up going to work at jobs they don't like because it's putting food on the table and sitting there kids to college it is serving a purpose much bigger than them how important is it do you think to put to have an end date on that I asked this because someone we had mentioned that to me the

other day when I was stressed you know because you know me I'm unfortunately all trying to do so many

things and I've always got to being a mission and they were like well when's the end date on that

what do you mean the end date on stress not on stress but for instance is there an end date on this job that they hate meaning when I get to year three and I made X amount of doctor you think it is important for us to do that when we're in these situations that may not be that fitting for us where like we have an end date look by March is March right now by August I'm going to X

“Y and Z you do think that's even a fair way to move I don't I think we all have to what I”

try to figure out what I have still tried to figure out is what is my happiness mine and I think we all have a different definition for it what I have learned in all these years with all the

powerful tables that I've sat in and all that I've seen the thing that I know is that it has nothing

to do with how much stuff I have how much how big a house how much money is in the bank account even though there is a number that matters that makes life a lot easier I have learned that for me enough it comes when I feel like I have friendship I have love I have a good community around me and I feel like I have given something to somebody else I don't know that there's an end date on it in terms of the do but at some point I have to be settled I have to say I am enough I have done enough

I am okay you know that's all an internal struggle like the end we have to figure it out for ourselves right I mean I know what a doozy I know it's one of those things where it's it's also tailor

“made is what I'm here and we're all on our own individual relationship with that but I think it starts”

with how we feel about ourselves you know I mean I think we can we can work for all this external approval somebody else to tell us that we're beautiful we can wait and hold our breaths to have somebody else love us enough you know but in the end the work is really with us on us you know it's the work it's the finally sitting in your own head and saying I don't need anyone else to tell me that I'm worthy and that's that is it's almost like the look is based on what we see when we

look in in the mirror you know that that's a huge part of it is like accepting our own gaze

yeah and being happy with what we see and it's amazing that when we get to that place everything

caring that energy with us that it probably just changes the game and we're starting not to give a about what somebody else says and thinks and that takes a minute you know you earn that wisdom

“you know and that's why a geeky don't be don't get impatient with yourself you 12 and a half”

I am impatient you know are a baby and some of this stuff wisdom is for the old you know it takes time to go through some stuff and at 62 years old I am I am developing I'm still growing still developing some wisdom that but it's all about how I see me you know it is that it's that gaze of myself right wow that is so awesome well time is coming to an end I want to I mean there's

so many more things that I can ask you we got to a part two three four five like always but before

you know it's ladies night yeah there's a lot more coming you be happy to get on with it oh yeah they got a lot of fun stuff coming to the stage this is going to be a good night but before we leave you know I love play games I've got to play a fun game it's a play game keep it change it leave it okay keep it change it leave it so it's a little rapid fire I'm going to give you some prompts you know the rapid is always crazy because like honestly how fast do I

“have to be really you're going to tell me if you want to keep it change it leave it okay tell me a little”

bit of why maybe okay okay here we go the first one is power suits keep it you know there's nothing wrong with a good power suit especially if you can wear pants I hate panting hose I'm done

panting hose always tear like why don't they make them so thin no it's why they mess with us they

make us wear something that you can wear once it's a dumb thing dumb invention being the first like the first you know carpenter the first you know best in the president I'm sure we were already I mean like we better be ready for some first there's a lot of stuff we didn't get to do so we want to keep the first we still have we got our ways to we got a lot of stuff we're trying to get in so we want to definitely keep that on the first but I feel the same way as you do let's continue

work on the pair for it we're prepared for it we've been preparing for years to be the first perfectionism perfectionism what was it keep it change it leave it I would change it change the meaning of it I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to do your best but not placing everything not not making that be the reason for everything I think change what it means you know keep it but change the don't know exactly yeah exactly I took that that was me personally okay girl boss

culture girl boss culture yeah you know I guess the way I would just describe it is like you know just this idea of being you know needing to be a boss you know like on the boss I'm a boss of this or that you know the idea around that the best role position is whatever a boss is well I don't

“know if I I I would leave that right because like you should be the role that is suited for you”

and not everybody wants to be a boss and that's okay that's not always the best position let me tell

you be in a boss sometimes you know it's not all that it's cracked up to be so I would I would leave it yeah yeah I feel you I agree I'm working twice as hard you kind of said some of the similar to this with the perfection I think I know what you might would say yeah I look I would I would keep it because I always think even if I work twice as hard even if you don't see it I'm still better than you I still win I mean it's like going to the gym right like I'm still getting stronger

right you know so what's like wrong about it's that muscle okay just three more coats switching coats switching I change it I think it's a it's a tool to have but there shouldn't be a code we have to switch from I mean that's part of what we talk about when it comes to our hair and how we show up in the world as long I want the code to broaden yeah but I do think there are times

of language in that moment in time you know it's like multiple languages protecting your piece oh

keep it in never let it go ever ever ever and then this is the last one reinvention after 15 oh keep it y'all

“let me tell anybody over 50 anybody over 50 you know this time in life is the best”

it is the best you talk about freedom I would keep it there's a lot of good stuff coming

I got 20 more years to go it take take your time but when you get there let's talk

“because I'll be I'll be 70 yes I need to be over there with you in a some island somewhere there you”

come on well I just thank you so much Miss Obama you can't thank you to essence for having me

I love you all so so much and I love you keep it Palmer and I love you too Miss Michelle Obama

“thank you guys God bless you and we'll see you enjoy the rest of your essence”

you