The story is that it would require an emergency session like somebody's on a ...
Yeah, Brian, you know, there's there's movement. Yeah, yeah, I was like, we're coming. We're coming. It's a crisis my friends dog die
“We were all there at the house bringing her favorite snack like this is took our work”
Man, I'm doing a text like you know, she's not gonna be good like she's she doesn't need this right now So horrible about that is guys to be like damn. Yeah I Hey, well, hi again. You it's you again. Oh, I like your is that pink it's my wife called a quarrel But yeah, it is quarrel and it's a little pleaded what this is this is breaking out of the you know
Wow, that's a ball. Thank you Caller, okay, I see you Craig Robinson. I am I'm thrilled that you like my clothes Yeah, no, you guys this hard being this one's brother I don't have enough closet space You know, and you don't even need much closet space, but you know you stepping out you stepping out. Thank you
What's new and exciting? Well, I've got to tell you while we're out here in LA Rivian hooked me up with a vehicle to tool around in when since you won't be able to drive on since don't I I might no no, I'm starting to drive really. Yeah
“I can drive how how's that secret service letting you drive? Well, it's a secret you could take me for a spin”
They'll let me take you for a spin. Don't you remember when I came to visit you in Milwaukee and the boys One of me to pick them up from school and we did and you tooled up in a motorbike to this in the pickup line They were just like For cars deep in the pickup line for this. So much fun. I'm sure that their friends are like what the heck Yeah, and then then you roll down the window and it's you they're like me. I'm like
Getting in and don't touch that goodness, but So we're talking about friendship today. Yeah, and people know by now that you and I are like Have been best friends since you were born. Yeah, because it couldn't happen before then. I know it could not happen before then
But my first question to you is how many of your friends now where your friends when you were
little the like the little little. I don't keep up. Don't get a chance to keep up with the folks from little little time although as folks know mom recently passed and a lot of people came to the field And two of my girl girls from grammar school the gores. Yeah, and Nicky and they had a little sister Gina but they came to the funeral and it was funny. We got a quick second to talk But it was almost like I had and I had missed a minute with them
But so we vowed to keep to keep in touch but outside of childhood I can say that I have at least almost at least one Good friend or more from every aspect of my life. Okay, so what I found is like one of you know my best friend roommate who you know
Angela from Princeton. She's my roommate. She's my girl. I'll always talk to her from law school
My friend Verna just went to her house for lunch just the other day she's in DC, you know, and then there my mom friends because right as I got married But then even before that that was Pam she was more my professional friend When I was when when we were grownups and had jobs at law firms and you know I could go on and on like that And the other thing I made a point of because one of the things that you said When Barack won and we got to the White House, you know one of the things you were like no new friends this it and I was like
“I you know I did say that yeah, you were kind of joking, but it was important for me”
And the normalcy of my life to be able to to urge keep my life normal even in those unusual circumstances to continue to expand my friendships
That's a little on the answer to say yeah, I do I I keep making friends and I...
She'll talk is talking about
differences with those friends and falling out of friendship with with with good friends and and I'm just I'm just thinking see guys are a little different guys are their friendships are more transactional right what well what I mean is after sort of grammar school and high school where you're sort of friends with people because you're Developing your group and your Personality and your character Most of the time after that you make friends out of the necessity of wanting to get something done whether it's a business idea
business venture Sporting event you've got four tickets to a game and your significant other doesn't want to go so you
“All right, I'm just making friends. It's like okay. Let's be friends but guys do that guys. That's why y'all are broken”
We are not broken But we we we don't go as deep Yeah, so if something happens we're not as hurt Is that are you is that what mean y'all scared? No, I don't know what you said. I don't know you it's just a function of how we Socialize each other and and
Like you I have all of my friends. I could not talk to in a year or I could talk to every week and the relationship is Mostly the same that's because y'all don't talk about nothing. Well, we don't you're right about that It's because it's hard to go deep. You know what we go deep is when it's too late Death bed. It's like or you know
“About his family we're getting a divorce”
Yeah, then there's some tragedy. It's like when you say anything. Yeah, I didn't say anything because I didn't want to burden you And I was got through it myself But today's show we're gonna talk about you know sort of falling out of friendship with close friends and We got company we do have company and I can't tell you how excited I am for this company because as I told her in the green room I didn't watch
rom-com-ish type shows and my wife said You got to watch this insecure and I'm like I'm not watching it. She said You got to watch it. It's good and I said I'm not watching it and and and she said you you're gonna like it. I said I'm not gonna like it
“She made me watch the first two episodes back to back because she was like on episode four”
I was I watched the first one. I was like I it's not bad. I watched the second one and then I watched the third in the fourth because I was only gonna watch the first two
And I just fell in love with this actress who then I had to do a little research and I found out she was a writer and she was Now getting into the restaurant business and just an entrepreneur and a community folk, you know Kind of like y'all just in the community doing stuff for black folks given it given it back and just so Cremely talented. Let's bring on is a ray. He's a watching watch Well, welcome to the table. Thank you so much. I was just nodding and
Back there, so when it tells I wanted to jump in the Well, what's been going on? I'm not here still just writing you mentioned a restaurant That it is called summerville that's in my neighborhood that I'm really excited about what made you say all right I want to open up a restaurant. Had this that a dream or was it just
Circumstantial, you know, it's it's twofold. I've always said if I wasn't a writer
I'd be a bartender or I like I like the food environment. I love serving. I love hosting and there is a degree of that and I love eating out and so Since I was young, I've even Played like doing play dates in my brother. My little brother are play dates would be Restaurant restaurant. Yes, and I would be the boss of your restaurant owner
Sounds familiar and then also I I haven't remember my best friend and I have the same birthday and it was like the 30 something birthday
You can't count on the capricorn, maybe yeah, you already know 12 over here.
I don't like to be I want to give my mother that's that is back here, but we were just out we always celebrate our birthday together
We want to dinner
“We're just like let's go like we try to go out and in your 30s, you're not trying to go to a club”
You're trying to go to play some lounge and have a good time It was so hard. We went to like so many different spots and it just wasn't the right vibe It was just in it infuriating me. I was like we are both from LA. We cannot find a spot with us That's just a good time that'll cater to us and that was like my villain origin story I was like I want to I want that in my neighborhood man doing it with your little baby boss self
Were you gonna say something? I wanted to find out go ahead. We we talk about friendships and we will eventually
Read a letter From one of our listeners who's seeking advice around friendships, but something people ask me You know, which applies to you is that as you've become
“East array, you know, how has that affected friendships for you or has it you know, have you become more cautious?”
Have you have people come in and out of your life? Have you thought about it? differently. You felt like you needed to think about friendships differently given your You know, you're a saint and who you become. I have been very lucky that I've had you know friends since high school because I'm from LA. Yeah, and there is a sense of this feeling like my job like I don't and I didn't move here to
Become myself. Yeah, I was already here and I grew up around this environment and a lot of the people that I want to school with are my friends still and even my name. My name is Joey Sejoke. That's I grew up. And so even the East array of it is like, those are people who don't really know me. Who are my friends, you know, come by my name or my nickname. And so there's such a distinct separation. But I've definitely had friendship breakups as a result. Some as a result of
working together. As we both descended, some as a result of not being able to handle the the change in position at the time. Like I have a friend who I thought I was going to be friends with forever. But she went through two major milestones, kind of traumatic milestones really young. She got married when we were in college and divorced when none of my other friends had experienced those things. And I didn't as a friend
know how to handle that or have the capacity to handle that. And that was
“that was actually like two. I think on my part for her,”
like one was her father died when she was in college. And that was she was the first friend who's parent had passed away. And I felt like I wasn't equipped to like truly be there for her and in the way that she needed me to. And that was around the time when I started like
rising in my own career. And I felt like she never took my career seriously or my aspiration seriously.
So we fell apart and drifted apart and we tried to come together. But we were just in different places. And that was one of my most painful friendship. Because it wasn't acknowledged in that way. Right. But I haven't had any like your famous. I'm using you type fans. Well that that's a perfect segue for our listener letter. It's somebody who fell out of favor with a friend. So Natalie, are you ready to read us read us the letter? Let's do it.
All right. Yes. Hi Michelle and Craig. My name is Eva and I'm 32 years old. In my early 20s, I met my friend Kristen through a male friend of mine who she briefly dated. That relationship did not last, but Kristen and I stayed friends. If I'm being honest though, my friendship with Kristen felt a little unbalanced from the start. I really like friendships to feel effortless. Like both sides naturally want to spend time together,
check in, show up for each other. But I noticed right away that Kristen wanted to make plans pretty often. I'm a people pleaser. And I had a hard time saying no to her invites. When my schedule was already a little too busy with other friend hangs or dates. And when it came to my dating in particular, she had pretty strong opinions about what I was doing wrong. I am not perfect by any stretch, but I do have strong instincts. And I like to trust my gut rather than take advice
This from friends.
and it's a pretty special thing to have someone so much in your corner. We started to go on day trips together and I genuinely appreciated our quality time together over the years. Recently, though, Kristen lost a close family member. And when I sent a text checking in, I got an unexpected text back saying she wanted to stop communicating with me. She said people who were not nearly as close with her had been a lot more supportive.
“She felt the imbalance in our friendship and wanted it to be over. Honestly, I did not see this coming.”
I knew our friendship was complicated, but I felt like I was being myself and it was not enough ideally, I wanted to continue our friendship as it was. Even if it wasn't innately easier, perfect. But now I'm worried I'm a bad friend. Adult friends are not family and they're not romantic partners, but there are people we love and I did not enjoy hurting her, especially when I felt I was just being myself. How do you maintain healthy friendships if there is an imbalance in
expectations? Is it possible? What do adult friends owe each other? Thanks for your thoughts, Eva. That took so many turns. Yeah, great. Can I just say before we dig into this,
there would never be a guy that wrote a question like that. We just don't think it's not our thing.
Yeah, I can speak for me female friendships are complicated because we go there. We spend so much
“time playing out the sociology. I think women, and I don't want to generalize, but women more so”
we are sociologists. I just find the interpersonal interactions of everyone, especially my friends, are fascinating to me. So when I'm with my friends and this was true at all levels, we're never just going to throw a ball. We're not just trying to finish a game. It's like, I want to know, why, how? Tell me more. What did that? Well, let's talk about that a little bit more. And in the process of that, you know each other inside and out, which is why some of these
hurts, why it hurts so much. Absolutely. Because, you know, and not every woman does this,
but I know my friendships, all of them are deep and meaningful, and they don't always last,
but because of that, you don't end it without the hurt. You know, it is complicated. Yeah, there's a piece of you that you're giving so many of, I mean, so many of the women in my life, know, things that I just would never share with me with that. I've, as a closed off person, if I've opened up to you, that already means like you mean a lot to me. And then I, that I see a future with you, and automatically, if I do me as a friend, then that's like for life. And so the
idea that that gets cut off for any reason, and especially if I'm culpable, or if I feel betrayed by you, that is devastating. And even in hearing this letter, this woman felt like she was even hesitant
to become this person's friend, was it begin with? And then, ultimately, it was just like,
okay, I see the value in my life, but there were, there were changes of selfishness there, just even in terms of how she saw the friendship, but it still felt like she was in any version of this, I don't know. I don't think that she was willing to be a full friend to this woman, it is the way that I write it. And that's okay, but she just have to be honest about that. Right. Right. Right. Have it both ways.
Friends, relationships, career goals, big life anxieties, we get into all of it on the show. It's become a kind of therapy for me, but just to be clear, I am a firm believer in actual therapy as well. Therapy isn't only for moments of crisis. It's for anyone who wants more support, clarity, or tools for navigating whatever life throws at them. Growth therapy can connect you with thousands of licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions,
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Visit growtharipy.com/IMO today to get started. That's growtharipy.com/IMO. Growfaripy.com/IMO. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. The biggest hurts that I've had in friendships and hurts is strong. When I didn't feel like
there was emotional reciprocity. Because the imbalance that she talks about, that's, that's always
present. Someone in every relationship is given a little more, given less. Some people have more or less at a given time. People are complicated and flawed and all of us are. That has never been a problem for me. The complicated nature of my friends. When I felt almost portrayed as when I felt like we're all at the table, giving, sharing, and you weren't. You were at the table, but it's sort of like, you know, probably one of the reasons when he went through his divorce
of his first marriage, I didn't know what he was going through. They're probably felt like a little emotional, you know, I felt emotionally robbed. Because it was like, you weren't telling me, you weren't telling me, and maybe it's because of what you didn't trust me, you didn't trust yourself. See, she's still hot about it, can you tell me? Yeah, that's understandable. In the table of,
“for me, at least, that becomes more important. And maybe it's because of who I am and trust and,”
you know, when you, and I let people in. So when I let people in that, you're in. Yep. You know, and I don't have the time or the energy to have to second guess what I say to you or how I feel, I want to be at the table with my friends completely myself. But that means I'm assuming you are too. And if you're not, and in the case of Eva, maybe her friend didn't feel like she was fully there or maybe she obligated. Well, it started out with the term in balanced, which I just can't
understand when it comes to friendship. Why? You really say, what's your problem? Because my friends are my friends. There's, you know, relationships, Evan flow. So it's rarely going to be where
“the, everybody's feelings are balanced at the same time. So isn't life always, you know, I think”
I, I said, I don't disagree. Yeah. But there is that if, if you're, if you're always showing up, if you're always the one that's like checking in, if you're, even if you're always the one providing it, take it. That's fine. Like taking into the games, I'm always one with the tickets. If you find out your other friend has tickets and didn't invite you and you're not, like, that's true. There's
an impact. Like, I'm always thinking of you first, be sure not thinking of me first. That's like,
that's the unhealthy imbalance, where it's just, okay, you're not going to show it for me in the same way that I show it for you. Or like, you're always at my house and I'm never at chores. Yeah. I mean, that, that, that's, that's problem. You know, if I look, I don't mind hosting, I don't mind being, because the oftentimes of my friend, I am the one with tickets. I am the one I have the resources. I've got the, you know, I have more of the special, go, guess what we can do.
And there, there's a natural imbalance, but it's like, you, if you never invite me on a trip,
even if I can't go, or if you never plan a dinner, or whatever. Even if it just puts up,
I know your effort is. Yeah. Even if it's just pizza, like, grown, or you like, peace thing, you invite me. This means a lot. Yeah. And I'm fine. I will meet you. That's true. At, because I know that this is your love language, but you can tell when someone's kind of checked out of any kind of effort, or that you don't rank as high on their list of friends. So what's your version of balanced in friendship? You know, I guess with me and my friends,
because I like you. I don't want to generalize. As long as every now and then somebody else buys around of drinks, or it's lightweight. Uh-huh. Do you use tickets? That tickets is a great example.
Not everybody has the same means.
you to a Lakers game, and you invite me to a high school game, that's a equivalence. Yeah, I agree.
“That's a equivalence, you mean. But what, but what I, I don't get about this relationship was that”
she knew it was in balance from the beginning. York to your point, ESA. My friends and I don't, they, we don't roll that way. We're, we're more transactional. As long as we're getting something out of it, we feel okay. We're just, we don't go as deep. And like you were saying, how, you're, you're, it's sociology for women. It's not. It's carpentry for men. You know? It's a jazz. It's a shop. It's, it's, it's, uh, I didn't want to say gym, but it's, uh, it, we, we enjoy each other for
surface level enjoyment. And if we need to go deep, we'll go deep to what extent. So like, even if I'm not getting a business, no, no, we're, we're, we're getting a business for the divorce. Two Capricorn. I told, we end your business. I told, like, I didn't tell her everything.
“Okay. With the, with she left out the reason I didn't tell her was because I was hoping that it”
would work out because if it didn't work out and I got over it, she would never get over it.
Oh, interesting. So I was trying to save everybody's relationship. Now, when I talk to my boys about it, that's when I go deep. You did go deep. Yeah. So you actually brought up, like, this is this thing that I'm going through. Or did you, did you, did you bring up, we're having problems? And let's talk about, or did you wait until, we, I, like I said at the outset, I waited until, so that's y'all, you didn't go deep. But, but no, see, now see, there's no timing to it.
I mean, but there is. So it was deep for me. It was deep for me irrespective of the time. Just the mere fact that you told somebody, and you told your friends, that it happened, that it happened, that it's going deep in me. That it's happening. Not that it, and someone. When you were going through it, right? And it was hard. Who did you talk to? I talked to two really good friends of mine. And we would go to a restaurant in Chicago on Friday after the market stop trading.
And we'd have cigars and margaritas. And it was three of us. And we had one chair in the middle. So it was the whoever. And we called it the chair of angst. So whoever was having trouble got to sit in the chair of angst and say, this is what I'm going through. And for a while there, I was in the chair of angst for like seven months, because I was going through this. And I wasn't ready to divulge it to my family because I didn't want it. If I could somehow kick save this thing,
that's there. Yeah. I could tell them after the fact, yeah, you know, what we had to work on it, but everything's fine now. But I know my family. And if he's right about that, is he right? It's a sort of, sort of right. We would have been, but you know, you go, you do what your family needs at the time. You know, there's, there's no way we wouldn't have gone through a recovery of things. It would just have been good to know that before it was like everything's great and now everything
“is over. Yeah, that's how we found out. It found out. So it was like, what? How did, you know,”
it's not the sharpness of it. I'm not saying it's the, it was the right thing to do. It was a plan. That was my plan. But the thing that I like is that you did go deep with your friends up, but I think we were confused, but it sounded like you were, you did to them what you did to, no, what I was saying is we don't go deep until we need to go deep. Okay, well, that, but that's
you know, it's not like a friendship is, there's always something to dig into. But I find that
my friends, there's always something to talk about everything. And there's, there's just, there are things that you don't know affect you until you talk about it. It could be nothing. It could be talking about a TV show episode that then leads to like, oh, this happened to me. And this is how it was affected by it. And there's just, and nothing is off limits. And that's the beauty of it is just, you get to explore everything freely with no judgment. And that's also
the devastation of, oh, I don't have this safe space. I mean, or you were this safe space, or, and I didn't even see that it was a malicious space, which, you know, getting back to this
Letters, like this woman seemed like she was pouring her heart out to this, t...
hit her miss. I'm not hitting you. I don't even know if I could grow anything cool. But oh, I just
“do like you. But it's too late. And so I think that that's also a violation of just like,”
am I in your life or not? Do you like me or not? Are we? Are we good or not? And now someone something happened? That's tragic. And I think you're one of the last people I heard from. So maybe I need to be real about what this friendship actually was. Yeah. And I think Eva's asking, am I a bad friend, right? I mean, I think I think this situation is worth given her some pause, you know, with maybe the other friend she is close with the in real time. Yeah. If she does
have those. And you know, and this is what women do. Like, this would have happened to me in one
friendship. And I would have gone to a set of friends to say, hey, hey, 100% yes. This is what happened.
Am I messing up here? Am I dealing with that wrong, right? And the crew would be, they would dissect it.
“They would be IMO in real time, you know, and I think, you know, with what I know,”
what we understand from this letter, I would tell Eva, yeah, girl, you do need to think a little bit, you know, think a little bit because it, you know, for somebody to go through something tragic. And then in their letter, what I think this friendship is over, because it's not giving me enough in this particular situation, she probably would check herself, just say, you're right. I wasn't, I wasn't fully in this, I was ambivalent. And I thought it was okay for me to be ambivalent
here, because it didn't mean the same thing to Eva as it did to her friend. I have to say that I'm also guilty, because part of this also triggered me in a way, because I am guilty of, again, like you said, I am not a check in every day type of person. I'm a very much when when I'm here, it's all about you, but I don't check in as often as I should with friends. And I've been, I've been told that in the past, and I've adjusted, but you just have to tell me,
but it's not a natural instinct. And so with this, I understand like Eva being, like this is kind of a high maintenance friendship in a way where I can't, I'm not going to be the same type of
giving friend that you are to me, but I will show up in the ways that I can. If you need me, I will always
be there. And so that is, that would make me consider like, oh, am I, am I a bad friend? Because I don't think, I think about you, but I might not text you to be like, hey, I just want to make
“sure you're okay, but you should know that I would hope you would call me, if you weren't okay,”
and know that I would show up for you and be there for you. I'm just not the, I'm not considered yeah. I'm not a considerate friend in the way that I would like to be, but that's the pronouncement there. It's true. It's like one of my biggest flaws, because I'm just so work-focused that I'm not like, I'll think about you, but I'll tell you that I'm waiting about you. And that's fair. But that's also part of friendship, right? Because, you know, like you said, if you're honest,
if your friends know who you are, if there's some transparency there, you know, I have friends like that, and times when I've been that friend, and the hope is that people will be like, "Girl, she must be going through something." Or she's busy, or, you know, um, and that's when you feel the security of friendship, because you can completely show up as yourself, flaws and all, in the inconsiderate or the part, you know, you got to friend group and it's like, well,
ESA's not going to be the one to call, because she just doesn't do that. You know, I'm not a great, you know, I don't call on a regular basis, but I tend to organize my friends more. For the same. Like, I'm the one that's like, okay, let's think about this, or, you know, everybody come visit me here. And that was because eight years also. I mean, you, you know, it's hard, it was hard to reach me for eight years without a whole lot of goings on. In order for me to maintain my friendships,
I had to be more deliberate. Yeah. And over the years, I've become the more deliberate one, and also because of who I am. I think people just assume, I don't want to bother you. Yeah, same. You know, um, because I'm not going to bring these problems. I've had so many of my good friends who went through stuff. And I'm like, what do you didn't tell me? Yeah, I didn't want to bother you. Yeah. And so that means that I often have to bend over even more completely to to check in. So people know that
when things are tough, do not knock on. Yeah, because I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I'm like,
You go to the end of the day.
you're that that was great. I appreciate that. And, and I also appreciate now you see she would have
“been mad when she said she wouldn't do it. She wouldn't have. It would. You know, capital coins would”
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Join wafer rewards today and get 5% back on every purchase and start saving on your next home upgrade. Head to wafer.com to shop all things home. That's WAY-F-A-I-R dot com. Wafer, every style, every home. Class, you're question about the chair of chair of angst. Did they ask you questions or was it more of like a venting space? Was it an inquiry? Yes. It was. It was all of the above. Because sometimes the person who was in the chair of angst just needed to vent. And in the venting,
the other two would ask questions to find out, okay, is this really what's going on or is there anything we can do or what predicated the, so it was just, it was a given take. It wasn't just a venting session. But it was, at least for me, it was liberating to be able to just have somebody to talk to about things that, you know, that were deep in private, that I didn't, I wasn't ready to
“share with the, the whole world. That's done. But you have to make a whole construct with the”
guards and what that's. That's how we get to what you out the chair is. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. No more questions. That's interesting. Well, but see, and that's the other thing you can't do with women or with your sister. We don't let it go. They don't let it go. You're never at a bar because now I'm calling you and going, okay, what happened at the end? So we now only do our sister. I have a wife and which has helped me communicate, right? Because I say all the time, our relationship relationship with my wife and the relationship with my daughter who is now 28. I'm a better communicator. Not just with women, but in general, because I, I get it. I get it. There are times when my wife wants to talk to me and I don't want to talk, but I have to be intentional about she needs this.
And if I need it, I will go get it. But with my friends, it's, we never get there like that. So a friend has never disappointed you, because you don't have
expectations. No, friends have disappointed, but I, it doesn't injure me as deeply. And if your next question is, do I approach him and say, are you really disappointed me? I have. And I think that's why we keep our friendship. And have you had that happen to you with one of your friends, with they approached you and said, hey, this is you to show up in this way. And I'm, I'm saying, I have not. Have you, have you? I'm a little bit of sounding cocky. I hope that I am. You seem like you're a good friend, but it's, it's, it's, it's doesn't have to be deep friendship. It can be just below the surface.
“And I think you, you allow people to just be comfortable with you and I think that that is essential in a friendship. And you may not”
challenge them in a way, but if a friendship isn't serving you, will you just ignore it and keep it going. I keep them around. You'll never be like, hey, I kind of don't like hanging around. You can't get on my nerves.
Yeah, so this is a really good question.
You know, after a certain period, I shouldn't say as an adult sort of as, as I've gotten older. So my friends are my friends and they're going to be my friends.
And new people that I meet that I'd have a known for a long time, who are friends, the shift to the right, and they don't make the shift to the right, we just don't communicate as much. Mm-hmm. I saw, it's called that the slow ghost. Yeah, it doesn't have a conversation with because, you know, and do you really care, so you go through the emotional energy, you just sort of just let it go. You know, let it be that I might have died. And it's quite death. And, and which brings me to another point that you all didn't talk about, but it made me think about this, is that I don't mind being ghosted.
We neither. I don't mind that. I think it didn't matter. Yeah, if it didn't matter, it didn't matter. I don't know if it is.
But let's say I get the slow ghost, right? I get the slow ghost.
And then a year later, the guy texts me and say, hey, I'm going to be in town, want to go get a drink, I'll be like, yeah, sure. If you all laugh about that, it's how we operate. Just look at the guys that hear all smiling, trying to get into trouble. No, no, no, I'm just like, girl, you gave me a reason. Thank you. No, you are done. I had to make people, I've messed with it. Because there's nothing worse than like having, you sometimes you don't have time and making a new friend who you're kind of not sure about.
“And then you have to like make plans together. If the slow ghost allows you to never speak to them again and never have to plan anything and it's fine. Ouch.”
But even with your friends, I'm sorry, your friends that you grew up with. Inevitably, you guys, like you grew up, you become who you're supposed to be, right? They're no friends that you grown up with that you have where you're just like, I've outgrown them mentally or they, you know, don't necessarily. We don't vibe the same anymore. There's never been that. That has never crossed your mind. The guys who, like, say, grammar school people who were my friends, I'm still in touch with them.
And they've never since, since grammar sense, since high school, first they have high school.
Okay, okay, but your friends that you hold now, your male friends, is that to say that you've never even fought? No, we fought. Yeah, but it's, it's kind of emotional fight. There's no, I mean, I'm just like, I know his friends. It's like, it's just, there's not a lot going on. There's no emotional fight. You know, you're talking about, I thought you're talking about, like, a fight.
“No, that's how, like, guys to me, y'all will be like, but, like, y'all physically fighting, be like, well, you know, I'm the baby.”
That's it. We're good for life. Let's go have a beer. Yeah. And no, if I, if I physically fight with my female friends, it's over. Well, you all know physically fight. No, but in, but I get it. I get it. But the emotional fights allow you to get closer or, you know, decide this isn't the right way. I just think it goes back to the level, you know, and again, this isn't true for everyone, but even just watching my, my brother, it's like, you know, your, your friends sort of hover around the surface.
And it's real, meaningful friendships, but they, they're, they're, they're just not as deep as the friendships I see among women. You know, there is a crisis. Then we go deep. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's true people show up, go to the funeral, you know, all of that sort of stuff, but it's great to definitely.
“You know what, I mean, because that's what, it sure is.”
Yeah. For the superficial friendships, it's got to be like, yeah, it could be something something going on with your kids or it could be a divorce or it could be, you know, car accident. Something super dire. Yeah. Yeah. So, a crisis, but it's not a crisis from women is just like, every now. Yeah.
Yeah. Don't be like that. You know, like, I get it. Oh, man, I'm going to get it when I get involved. For example, because my husband doesn't fully understand it, and he's got great friends, friends that he has since high school.
I know his friends, meaningful, but when I'm, when a girlfriend comes to visit, it's usually like, you got to stay for two days. Because it's going to take us so much time to check up and we're not planning anything. We're going to sit right here and we will be here. So, I've got, but it's not even a rule.
It's just a rule.
It's just a rule. And this is what it's going to take. You've got to stay for two days. So, I'll have one of my good girlfriends over. Spinning the night.
Friends with Barack and love all that. We sit on a couch. We transfer. There's something in front of us. T crackers, mood of wine.
You know, but we get up at 10 a.m. And we start the check-in. That sounds beautiful.
And it begins with, first of all, grow high youth.
You know, telling about you now, I don't know. And that's an hour. Just sort of emotionally mentally checking in. Right? Our two is like, okay, what about work and tell me about, because we know all about it.
“Remember that HR person you were going to let go.”
What happened with that girl? She's still there? Oh, man. What would she do next? And then you got to give an example of what she did.
Now, now it's lunch time. Right? On day one. Right? Now, Barack, it's come in.
He's come out. And he's like, y'all still talking. He'll sit down for five minutes, be like, "How are the boys?" He's like, "I'm going to give something to you." He's like, "You should be done."
He's like, "Interrupt at the time." And then it's three o'clock. And he's like, "Y'all still here." And it's like, "We're just now getting on the kids." And with one girlfriend, we each have two kids.
That's four kids. That's like an hour per kid. Oh, my gosh. I haven't even gotten to that. It's Facebook.
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So it's 48 hours because each kid has, you know, we know the issues and the things we've, you know, now we're at dinner on day one.
Right? So this is what I'm saying. And my husband is like, "How, what are you all talking about all day?" And it's like, "We're not eating. We're just scratching the surface."
And do you know that it's so. Oh, my. It feels so good after. Yes.
“It's just like, there's no better feeling than, like, I just got,”
I reconnected with my girl. She knows everything. I've been holding, I was saving this story for her because she would understand. She would understand stories. Yes.
Like, I can't tell. Like, there's, there's friendship. There's even in my groups. There's my friend who, if I want to be mad at someone. And if I want to not know that I'm wrong, I go to her.
Because she's never good at it.
She's never going to tell me I'm wrong as always. Yeah. Okay. Oh, we. Right.
And then there's a friend that I go to where I'm just like, I need. I need to know the truth. Yes. I need to know the truth. I need to know that I'm not it.
And they're going to give it to me straight. And then there's just the loyal friend who's just like going to listen. And I can grab. But everybody has a function in some way. And they're just.
It's just, it's chaotic. It's so, it's so beautiful. And that's why I'm just. I don't understand. I don't understand.
I don't understand. Because he goes. And golfing takes as long as the first session of our, you know, it takes five hours to golf. He'll golf with his buddies.
Come back and be like. How's ex? He's good. He's like, what you'll talk about. Nothing.
“And I was like, I will have heard like, like, somebody has cancer.”
And I was like, how is ex? Did you hear that they had cancer? He's like, no, we didn't talk about that. And I'm just like, what? What?
You were golfing all day. And then never came up. And you never came up.
You never asked about our God's son for yourself.
You're with his father. How is he? I think he's good. It's like, what were you all doing? Sitting in a cart and talking about, you know?
And I'm like, literally nothing. I think he's a nurse. Information. And that's the difference. Because you'll be with each other all day.
Looking directly away from each other at a ball. Right. Whereas when I'm with my friends, we are turned. We are physically turned in towards one another. Feet off comes sometimes.
We're touching. You know, their tears. It's like, and that can go on for hours. And once you do that, then your feelings are going to be hurt when you break up. Or somebody will get mad.
I mean, with that level of kind of intimacy. Intimacy. I maintain. Yes. That the chair of angst with me, Jimmy and Victor,
is exactly the same thing. It just doesn't take as long. Okay. I don't know how you can. It's just looking at us sitting in the chair.
Because you're also not. It's also has to be around a crisis, right? Mm-hmm. You know, it does. It, it, it, it, it takes a crisis to get it going.
This is also why women live longer than the man. Because we're getting a lot of that. We're not. Right. And not to take it there.
But Julie, but then here. We do. Like the story is, the would require an emergency session. Like somebody's on a train. Yeah.
Yeah. Brian. You know, there's, there's movement. Yeah. You want to get with the choices on, yeah.
I was like, we're coming. We're coming. It's a crisis. My friends dog die. We were all there at the house.
Bring her favorite snack. Like this is, took off work. Hey. Hey. That's the right thing.
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You're the one who's right. But understanding who your friend is and what they need. Okay. Like, you know, being a little more considered about the other person and what they need.
“And, you know, just like you do with the loved one, you have to do in any relationship.”
Sometimes you do what they need, even if it's not what you need. And with friends, you don't have to do it every day like you do for your partner, your life partner. But you do have to be aware, you know, and show up every now and then.
It sounds like even may not have shown up at all for this friend.
And so you've got to, you know, you're going to have to give people what they need to get at some point to get what you need.
It's like friendship language. What's your friend's friendship language? Is it time? Is it crisis management? Is it, you know, um.
What is it? Is it brutal honesty? Is it emotional vulnerability? I would say that that's my friendship language. I value people's honest emotional vulnerability that that means a lot to me.
But even hearing you say this, there's, you also have to have the recognition. That maybe you're also not compatible because some of it, some friendships, the most beautiful friendships are just instinctive. They're instinctual like you don't have to try. You don't have to try. You, you are the end to the yang.
You're, you fit in like puzzle pieces. And then there, there, you know, when there are missteps, you can talk about them comfortably without necessarily feeling like you're, you're offending. And it, this feels like very much like even had to try too hard and something she was.
“Maybe something that she wanted and that she didn't really want. And so I think considering that and that goes back to being honest with yourself.”
But the best friendships I have, you haven't had to do all that and the worst friendships I've had that I've, I've silently go sit or the time when he goes to me.
It just, it was hard to manage like there were just, there was always something in it felt uncomfortable.
So yeah, being honest with yourself about that is crucial. And how old is Eva again? Yeah, that I was wondering that too. 32. Yeah, yeah, this is when people start falling off.
Yeah. You're there. He's just like, when it, it glittles down. Yeah. Yeah.
He's going to be there. Does this, does she have kids? No. Mm-hmm. And it's going to whittle even more.
Yeah. You know, if she chooses to partner and have kids, it changes.
And I think that's also what I would say to Eva.
It's like, this is life. Yeah. You know, and like she said in her later, friends aren't family. You know, and sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not. You know, friends will, there are seasons for friends.
And who knows in their 40s or 50s, they may reconnect. Mm-hmm. So this is perfect because I'm thinking back to Eva, one of the things I would like Eva to take away from this is that being in an unbalanced relationship doesn't mean it has to in the relationship.
If you want it to be another way, based I'm learning from you all. If I'm in an unbalanced relationship and I'm the one feeling unbalanced. I got to go to the person and say, hey, look, this is what I want out of a relationship. And if they can't provide it, then we got to think about it in.
“Well, and that's what her friend essentially did.”
You know, but her friend did it during the breakup. I'm curious if the friend ever came to her and was like, hey, yeah. This is what I need from relationship. I feel like this is unbalanced. It seems like she was like, this is the last straw.
Like my relative died. You didn't show up. This has been unbalanced. And maybe it became clear to her in that moment. Which I think she said.
Yeah, right. She did. All of us in that relationship. Yeah, right. Yeah, right.
And that's just, that's the way the cookie combos. I wonder if Eva also fought for it. Doesn't it sounds like she's in contemplation about it? About fighting for it? Or letting it go.
It feels like she's let it go. It feels like she didn't fight for it. Yeah. But I don't think we have that. Don't you guys do follow?
Yeah. Dang. We know that. We need to know. Well, let's let's figure out a couple three things that we can tell Eva.
And then maybe we could figure out a follow-up with her.
“Well, one of the things I think you mentioned it is, like, if you have this other set of friends holding court and just being like, hey, guys, how don't I?”
Yeah. Take it to your council. What are the ways that I don't show up? Have I been a bad friend? And, but use that to become a better friend.
I completely agree with that. And also, you know, be easy on yourself. You're 32. This is how it goes. You know, people come, people go.
You know, even hurts can be healed because, you know, who knows will you be when you're 50? Mm-hmm. You know, life is long. And friendships have abs and flows.
And in the meantime, I, why would tell her is, use this as an opportunity since you're bothered by it to figure out how you can grow. And one thing that I've done before, write a letter with no expectation of response. If you, if you really do care about how, your actions impacted this person,
Write a letter of apology,
say where you're coming from,
and let that person know,
“hey, I just wanted to get this to up my chest.”
This is the way that you, I really value you to you. I'm sorry I didn't show up for you in this way. The door still open to be friends. If you'll walk through it again,
but feel free not to respond. I just wanted to get this up. Like, if you really feel badly about it, write a letter, but don't expect a response.
I like that. I like that too. But, you know,
I like even more is when Esa said,
just get a guy friend. (laughing)
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