Best Of: Horror Interviews

That's one of the cannonballs I've started.

“You guys are going to love this one, you know what?”

I don't fucking care what you think, okay, this is the big deal for us. We talked about a lot of fucking people this year. A lot of people this year. Last couple of years. We wouldn't do it anymore.

Yeah, well, officially we're finally actual horror interview.

Yeah, welcome last podcast and a lot of ladies and gentlemen. My name is Marcus Parks, I'm here with the interview boys, Henry Zabraski, and Elasa, and I look at this. I can't even believe who we got to talk to this year. We got to talk to you the Filipino brothers, Ryan Kougler.

Zach Craigger, Kane Pars, Steven King, Joe Hill, Robert Englund, and you're about to hear selections from all of them. Yeah, that's right. Thank you very much everybody for supporting us over the last head. Like we're on break right now, and you know, we're taking a little bit of a,

you know, snooze. We're getting a little bit of a CS to go on. But we're going to be back talking about horrible things for the rest of your fuck, a lot. No, we're next week.

It's going to come back big. It's come back hard. Hard. We're going to put back in the Robert Englund interview that he actually changed his name from Robert France.

I don't know. He said the lawyers were still kind of fighting with the lawyers and the publicist people, so I don't know. Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Well, it's fact.

“Hopefully it doesn't sue us for defamation, but here and listen to some of these incredible”

clips, make sure you tell Robert France, last podcast and the left loves him.

That's right. That's right. I'm your grade. Like when this is the kind of juice we need. Welcome to last podcast and love.

We have a very special episode here. We have two of one of my newest, truly favorite movie creators. What you guys are doing is fucking out of this world. The new movie, bring her back is coming out. It's now, it's out now, right?

Yes. By the time you hear this, yeah. It's out right now. It's out right now. Bring her back.

The directors of Talk to me as well. Danny Philopoe and Michael Philopoe. Welcome. Oh, I got it. Thank you.

Thank you. Have a good one. Yeah. Yeah. Last year the audience here.

We have two people in the back. Yeah. We, yeah. The robbers are producer. We got the gals.

“Thank you, sure, that you don't say anything too horrible.”

Our goal is to make you say a little thing. Yes. Talk to me. And I haven't watched it. I specifically did not watch this movie because I'm like, this scares the shit out of me.

I want nothing to do with this. I watched it last night with my wife and fuck you. It's like, my wife had to sit there and see that. Oh, my God. What is wrong with you?

I'm sorry to your wife. I know. I don't know. It's wrong with me. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. You know, you're going to get the talk to sound somehow. Yeah. Good morning.

I woke up. 7am. Brighten early to see bring her back. Perfect breakfast film. I'm sorry.

I'm trying to sell people honestly. See them at night. Yeah. Like get in at three o'clock in the goddamn afternoon. It's just, experience it sober.

I'm watching this movie. I had the pause. Halfway through. I'm losing my fucking mind. All right.

I'm going nuts. I can't deal with this goddamn fucking movie. It's totally in the morning. All right. I got a beautiful dog.

I'm like, I love you. Please kiss me. Okay. And then so I'm like, all right. I'll kiss her to the dog.

I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog.

I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog.

I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog.

I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I'll kiss her to the dog. I was scared of myself because of what you guys did.

I'm actually just jealous. Why have you bought your dog in? I missed my dog and I haven't had it in a dog in quite a while. I'm going to kill it. She's 13.

You don't have to wait long. How do you guys? Because you guys made stunt vids. How does it get? Was it just a natural progression of filmmaking?

From there? Well, it was always.

That was always the YouTube stuff.

It was just practicing to become filmmakers. That was always the goal, always the aim. Speaking of stunts, Michael couldn't be listed as one of the directors at the start of insurance for bringing her back. Because he was in Detroit having death matches.

What does that mean? It's like an extreme form of professional wrestling. Whether you use like light tubes and barbed wire and real weapons. And they cut each other up for real. It's like an extreme performance art, blood sport.

But I don't know how to documentary on it. You look okay.

It's a natural immune to certain types of damage.

Yeah. Yeah, luckily we brought a barbed wire back. Listen. Before we prolong anymore of these films, I need you to eat a light bulb. You've got to see it.

It's this role. It's bloody. It's good. It's nice. So just like you do that just for the thrill of it.

“Or is it one of those that you just love physical action?”

Ah, wife. I think we've been obsessed with death match rest things since little kids. Yeah. So we used to do it with our friends. Unfortunately.

But we had a big appearance that would literally not let the kids hang out of us. No way. Yeah, because we were sorry. We were delinquents.

We were actual delinquents.

You just threatened to kill my dog. Yeah. I was jealous. It was out of envy. No.

You guys had fun charges though. I looked at Wikipedia pages. Your charges are funs. Yeah. We had a few fun charges.

Yeah. They're not nothing bad. Like really like nothing.

“Does this stuff that honestly just excited me about you?”

Yeah. Underwater cars. We got Mark. We got arrested for certain. Which was even my idea.

I was the idea. You said he had an underwater car made and he didn't want to drive it. Well, because I was filming him. I was terrible at recording. Excuse for everything.

Michael is so important. Who are you saying about recording? He would like we would like do a scene. And I tried to be in the video. So try to be in something.

And it's footage is like out of focus. It's like punched it in a weird way. It's like, dude, just pointed out me in film it. Yes. But you were correct to be scared to get in an underwater car.

Well, now I got in the underwater car. I was filming in there. Okay. Yes. I was in there.

You were in there. You were going to have to lie. There's lies being thrown around. I was in the cops came and found you while you were in the middle of shooting. Right.

The idea. No. So the video came out. And then suddenly like a year later, I would go down.

He got arrested. It wasn't a year later. It was like a couple of months. But anything. Getting arrested over making art is one of my favorite things in the face of the planet.

It was so good. But I actually got arrested for pretending to be Michael. Yeah, sure. But I didn't know. I said, Michael got arrested for the art.

Yeah. They said I was like, I wanted Phil and like I had fled the country. I was like, I haven't been hiding or anything. And then I put the evidence on you. Yeah.

It's an idea. But it's like a year long lawsuit. What was the charge? Driving recklessly, driving dangerously, driving without a license, and striving without a seatbelt, driving a car that's a seatbelt.

- Oh, they're not America. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's what I said. - No, what happened while it was littering?

- We were not, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

nobody knows. This is the man who made black Panther. This is the man that made Creed that made me all to believe weep in a theater. I guess I cried masculine big fat masculine tears. You got Professor Stallone nominated for a second Oscar. I mean I think he got he got he got himself nominated. Yeah, yeah, sure. We know how it is. We know how it goes. You're nice. We know. But the reason why you're hit those movies are too

important and good for us to talk about. This is something that we're talking about that

is extremely amazing. This film centers that you have made. It's coming out

April 18th. You have come down to the horror world. You're making an extremely big thick ass horror movie that our people are going to love and say thank you so much for talking to us people. Like centers ruled. I appreciate that you guys, man. That means we're I love the genre. You got a saying I'll come down to it. I was coming up to it, you know, saying like because when I was in, you know, before I even went to film

school and my first, my first short films I'll make. We have, we have, we have horror elements to them. But I didn't feel like I was, I didn't feel like I was good enough to make that to make that step yet, man. And I kind of got away from it. What do you mean by like not? What do you mean by not good enough? We actually watched your movie locks. It's beautiful film. Like, I'm talking, I'm talking before

“it locks, bro. Like, I was making stuff before that. You know, like locks, I think”

was like my second year of graduate. No, I second semester of graduate school. But I was making shorts when I was an undergrad when I first learned learned that I wanted to make movies. And, and, and, and, and I made a couple of things at SC, you know, that, that, that, you know, one of them actually was the thing that got me recommended for, for a fruit bill. But no, I, no, I, whatever, see all those

movies. It wasn't, it wasn't legal for us to submit those movies to festivals or anything like that. That weren't good enough. But, um, but I've been, you know, I've been in love with

zone. Since, since I learned, I wanted to make movies. You know, I was my first, I was

“my first, my first, my first instinct. Uh, but then, you know, uh, you know, I made locks”

for the first thing I could submit to festivals, you know, based on the rules of the school and, um, and did that make it days more and that, you know, you know, more and that tonality, um, you know, but this was kind of a haunt on coming for me. Uh, that, that folks who really know me who were around, you know, you know, I have, uh, I have this, this type of, um, this type of passion for horse and, um, man, what are, what are your favorite

horror movies? Yeah, we need to, uh, I'm not just what inspired sinners, but what inspires you in general is kind of, yeah, my favorite horror movies, man. Um, I was saying number one is the thing. Yes. Um, now you consider that horror over sci-fi? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I, I, I consider the thing, cosmic horror, um, you know, it, it definitely has, has science fiction, uh, elements as well. I must, I must tell you, bro, even though I love genre cinema, I, I don't

like the concept of genre. Sure. It, it annoys me. Like having that, having that, having a classified thing, and especially like after, um, making this movie, you know, because I can research in, um, you know, the movie does with, uh, a lot of things, but drama action, horror, it's everything. But you're looking something, it's like hereditary was the first

“I remember seeing as an adult seeing a movie, and I was like, horror is drama set on fire,”

right? Like hundreds of days. I saw hereditary is a big of me. I love that movie. Yeah. And so, when I want sinners, the first thing I thought of, it was, it was, was truly, refreshing about it is because, yes, what you're saying, I see, would you say, yeah, it's a horror movie because of the elements that are within it. But all of the stuff feeds what the movie

is about. Yes, yes, no, no, 100%. Like, like, the thing is, I always work from the standpoint

of knowing what my worst fear is, as an artist, and I'm always kind of dealing with that in my movie, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And in this movie, I dealt with all of, like, all of my, all of my worst fears or, or in this, I just dumped them all in there, you know, saying, yeah. And, and, and, but what I was saying about genre was like, you know, and, and, and studying for this, for this movie, I, I was studying Delta Blues music. And I discovered,

like, I discovered that that for a long time, when the, when the, the music business was, like, first commodified in this country, you know, genre itself was, was it, was it, was it, the tool of racism, you know, like a, for black person saying a song. And then a white person saying the same song, you know, they would put those two songs into two different genres. You know, I'm saying like the black song would be called a race record. And then the, and the white person saying the song, that might be called, the grass or like, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly exactly exactly. And you know, the music industry, you know, came before the film industry, you know, you know, I'm saying like it, it's all, it's all, all the industry.

“So, so a lot of the, the film business, it follows the whims of music, because it's all the industry, you know what I'm saying?”

Yeah. And that, and that tradition is what causes like certain genres to be kind of like get, get all of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, like, like this genre is beneath this genre, the horror movie is beneath the, the, the costume genre. You know what I'm saying? Like this genre is, this thing, so, so whenever I, whenever I hear it with this one, and I'm trying to define it, or we're, we're trying to like classify a movie like Rose Mary's Baby, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've just figured about that. What exactly would you call it? Yes, that is horror elements, but it's like a jitz, mostly a drama.

Yeah, exactly. Like right, so, so, so you realize, you realize it becomes, you know, like that had this ridiculous rule, and at the movie and Terry Gates, like caught up one drop rule, like a foot foot for human beings, right?

And it's kind of, it's kind of time when we're never trying to, trying to put the, you know, when they try to, when they try to stick a part-tile on type of, on top of humanity,

they say, "Oh, you've got one drop of black blood, now I make you black." You know what I mean, you know what I mean, which is, which is so absurd. When you, when you hear this, but it's also, you know, you think about that movie, you just like, "Hey, you got, you got one, you got a couple of horror scenes, now that's a horror film, you know, you know, and it's like, "Well, it's Rosemary's Baby." Like, like, "Well, how are we going to talk about this movie because, because the vast majority of it, you know, it's a husband, a wife talking to their neighbors, you know, you know what I mean?" And, you know, you know, and, and, and, so, so, so, so, so for me, you know,

my favorite horror movies that they all are going to have an element of like a question mark of, like, "Oh, I got y'all, is that a horror movie?" Because, because, because, look, I'll tell you straight up, like, I think Steven Spielberg has created some of the most horrific images known in the man, like, you know, with jaws.

but but also man, a movie like Jurassic Park, like, like the, like, some of the lost wrapped of sequences, the openings, lost forever sequence,

when a guy goes eaten, and he bought something in a box that she can't see, you know, on, or the T-rex sequence, when he is raining and lighting the cup is ripping and he's coming, he's coming, he's coming, he's coming by that, coming by the car, and this breathing on the glass, the Velociraptor, Obi-Wan and the door, and the ball is on the kitchen, on the kitchen tile, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, it's so scary, it literally scares dogs. Like, there's so much footage of it, like, scaring dogs.

“So like, that's how scary dogs know it, scaring. Yeah, dogs, yeah, dogs, not fun with it, yeah, and I like make it that thing off, yeah.”

I am more impressed with you, the more I look at your stuff. Now I'm talking to, I'm gonna talk about your body, I'm talking about your work,

because I've looked at this, and the stuff is very interesting, and it's also, you know, it's like, yeah, but also I like it. I'd dive in pretty hard last night, it's wild. This is very interesting, I'm so excited to have you here. The filmmaker, Parox on alls, for the internet, and soon to be for the silver screen, we have cane pixels of the back rooms. A. K. A. Cain Parsons. Yes. Hey, guys, what are you saying? Or just being, or just being. Yeah, I came. I'm just a guy. I don't, I don't have a name. Oh, yeah. I like this. I look at you, you're in fluorescent light.

You look like you're in the back rooms. Yes. Right now, and you're frightening me. Oh, thank you. This is all, I'm really afraid it's going to be one of those, or I'm going to blink.

“I'm going to be in front of one of those weird grates. Very frightening. It's really honestly extremely frightening. I, but you created, well, you worked with the idea, which I guess was sort of a collective idea, right?”

I think it's an internet urban legend, but more so it was kind of like a series of kind of spooky images. Yeah, I can break it down if you like. I don't know. Okay, so just like the, and stop me if you've heard this before, or maybe this is good for the audience. It originated in a very unconventional way, this idea of the back rooms where it initially started. Basically, somebody took a photo of really just what, I mean, many of you have probably seen the original back rooms photo. It's just kind of like an off yellow, dingy, un renovated back space with like 50 different wallpapers all clashing against each other, like horrible, ugly fluorescence with like stains, ceiling tiles.

Someone took that, it ended up on 4chan, no one news where it came from, just given the nature of the site, solid anonymous, and that ended up getting reposted to another board along with a caption that again, another anonymous user added, which basically outlined this premise, which is like the one that most people know, like the one that you typically or originally accompanied that image, which is, I don't, I somehow don't have it memorized verbatim, it's essentially saying like, if you know clip out of reality in the wrong areas, which for those who don't know is like a gaming slash 3d design term, where if you just like move through like phase through a physical object,

if you know clip out of reality in the wrong areas, you will end up in the back rooms, where it's just this infinite, never ending, basically just what you see in that image.

It's like you're stuck in the back rooms of a empty sears forever. It reminds me, I was going to show you're pretty face is going to hell, and it is sort of similar in the aspect of the, I almost commercial hellscape, that you go to, where it's a series of almost cubicles looks almost, the liminal spaces. Yeah, liminal spaces, that's the term popped up, yep. It looks like society at one point was thriving, and now it's dying, and we're stuck fending through what's left.

Yeah, you're like in what I kind of felt this thing. Yes, yeah.

“It's all fucked up and super scary, lots of dark imagery, I fucking love what you're doing. I think it's great.”

You're the original short film blew my mind. Yeah, just in terms of when we realized it was a sound footage horror. Well, I do, but I also was really impressed with the digital build. Yeah, I appreciate that. That's really where a lot of my background is. I've been picking away at an initially sort of just after effects. I would use some like element 3D for those who who dabble, you know what that is.

But around the time during the pandemic is when I had a bunch of free time, I was still on high school. I mean, the pandemic hit when I was in my freshman year of high school, and in that time,

It's starting to pick up, it's definitely going very fast right now, the past two years.

“So much of life, it's just like, oh, that was like six high schools, you know.”

Yeah, I'm fully, I've been alive for like eight presidents. That's that's something I'm seeing more and more, and it's something I've had like a fixation on for a long time to this accelerating passage of time. Yeah, um, with that, I initially got my start on YouTube like, but I don't want to say my start because I've been around for a while. I started my channel in 2015, doing like Minecraft, let's play, isn't like whatever like eight year old kids do on the internet. But this is like you were already being like, I'm going to make stuff.

I'm going to make it. Yeah, I've had that instinct for a while. It just kind of, um, it wasn't as defined until I would say around middle school and high school when I started really pushing out CGI driven, um, like science fiction horror films. Uh, and that led to I did this little mini web series, I guess I would call this series.

It's more like a, you know, an extended art piece of little vignettes from the attack on Titan series, if you. Yes, it's really cool stuff. What are those last night? I love the dude. Oh, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. He has no idea what the hell attack is. No, I was very captivated by what you created. I appreciate.

Yeah, that was like the, um, that was like the first time.

I just wish that you could even understand what a breakthrough it is for this ham hawk of a man.

Yes, to embrace attack on Titan fan made content. Well, but that's how good that's it. That's what you did. You broke. You made this man on think about anime.

Yeah, man. It's usually just ham and, you know, I'm so sorry. You know, I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's just like tits and dogs. It's only watch.

Well, that's an honor. Truly. Um. Yeah, with that, it's, it was really my attempt to like take. I was more of a reader than a watcher of the anime.

I read the manga and like I tried to. Take the feeling that I got from that body of work that I felt like was kind of lost in the anime and lost in like the, the broader community where it went reading it. It feels a lot more blooming and really quite. The anime injects sort of like an epicness to it almost.

Yes.

I never really personally connected with.

I just tried to like come back from that and just make my own little thing that had that feeling to it. And it really took off.

“That's what like took my channel from I think it was like 20,000s, which is not an instinctive and.”

Oh, it's great. It took it from 20,000 to 200,000. So it, um, that's what really made me realize like YouTube could be a viable way forward. And that was the beginning of 2021. And then the later that year on Thanksgiving, I decided to.

And um, I was familiar with the backrooms as a meme like since 2019 since it first surfaced. Uh, and it wasn't huge back then, but it definitely over the years into the pandemic sort of permeated. Made it sway around everyone on the level space thing took over 2020. Yeah. Yeah.

It did and it sort of, although reviewing trends, not as much as they did in 2022. Um, but it sort of bled around everywhere. Everyone was kind of vaguely aware of it. Um, they probably saw some things on, uh, I'm not on TikTok, but TikTok is where a lot of this stuff kind of meldent together. Uh, well, you just interested or did, what was it about it that struck a chord with you?

I think I would, okay.

So on a few fronts, I was never the biggest like, die hard liminal space fan in quotes, whatever that means.

Um, I would definitely. But it's such a funny concept of like, uh, I'm a huge liminal space fan. I was like empty room. Oh, you're a liminal space fan, uh, name for a liminal space is it your favorite thing? That's a thing.

I have been very online for the past couple of years and I've seen a lot of people in this space and believe me. Some people know like the exact hex codes of every pixel of every image of whatever you've been to a train station. [laughter] Um, yeah, but continue. I'm sorry. Uh, so.

Those videos like videos of like, liminal spaces with eerie music or like Minecraft music playing over them. Like no staltrix/creepy/whatever. Uh, I would get those on my, uh, YouTube page every now and then they now and again over the course of like 2020, 2021, that period, which is, um, really not a ton of time.

“But those soaked into my psyche, they were learning for reasons that were hard to explain and I think that's what most people felt.”

Like the whole idea is that it kind of connects with you on a very unconscious or at least like it resonates, but you can't quite explain why. And that's why people find it so interesting. Dude, now it's my shit. I fucking hate when horror movie over explains. Like don't explain it.

It's better a mystery. And that's why your shit freaks me out because I'm watching it. And I'm like, there is no rhyme or reason to any of this.

There is, but it's funny.

Yeah, it's buried.

“When you do that when, because we were remarking upon your ability to create dread in a very, because that's what little spaces do, right?”

That's the whole thing is that it's a unfinished, it's valley, it's uncanny. So the weird place, it's where things drift in between. Obviously, we're all kind of, but what you did, like, can you actually talk to me about the filmmaking process of working in a fully digital world like that? Because I'll tell you, skin and wrinkles. Which is it was the back?

Oh my god, the whole time I was watching it. Can you eat mine? This is our opinion, not yours. I wish I could commentate, I haven't seen skin and wrinkles. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't.

Keep doing what you're doing. Don't watch it. You don't want to inspire. Why are you even talking to us? Get back to horror shit.

I can't really watch it now. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that reaction is pretty intense. That's why people like it.

“But what do you think is, like, what's your little trick?”

What's the trick? So, blender. I use blender. It's a free software. I use that for all my 3D visuals.

I work on just this one laptop. I mean, if you see my workspace, it's a standing desk with this one laptop. That's it. I mean, I have some cameras as well, but only in recent years that I sort of picked those up from like the money that YouTube stuff is made. Average budget for the stuff I make is like maybe $10 to zero dollars beyond like the starting cost of the laptop itself and more recently I've been using like overseas render farms because it's been getting pretty intense.

Turning stuff out in a timely manner. But if, let me think, like, what the, I would say creatively like the way I did that first background short. It was more funny enough considering how it's like the thing I'm most known for. Now, it was originally just kind of like a pallet cleanser exercise I did for myself. That's weird all that shit is.

It always, it always always seems to happen that way.

Yeah. I was tired from doing the attack on Titan videos. It felt like I had exhausted that. I was looking at some liminal space images. Just thought to myself, because I've always had a very strong personal relationship with just like locations and buildings.

And I mean, it's not like a hugely stated thing, but you know, like I guess maybe it's being sentimental or maybe it's just having appreciation for the way design can affect emotion and like the flow of human traffic and things like that. But those things have always just been like underlying themes in my life. And so I think that's probably why liminal spaces and whatever you want to call that connect with me so much. It's sort of like you appreciate a living room. You appreciate a kitchen.

We will appreciate a bedroom, but you don't usually appreciate like the hallway. Going there, it feels like it's almost like if you're thinking of these as people. They're like the people who don't get any credit for upholding the whole infrastructure of human civilization in a way, which is like such a weird way to humanize it. But that's kind of the feeling that I got. And I mean, you can take that for like a manned into places to like places that it feels like that place wants to be maintained in a living room.

But it's just rotting. So it's kind of the same feeling. But I looked at that original backwards image thought, can I evoke the same emotion in a video form? Because I haven't seen any videos really of like all these are all stationary images. What if I tried to remake capture this feeling in blender?

Did that post it a little teaser to Instagram? Because it was just going to be like a 15 second shot initially. People liked it and then from there I decided to just make a whole short around that one shot. It's the shot of if you remember the chair flying and hitting the wall.

That was the first ever one I did and I never like read it or anything.

I just left that in and built the rest of the short and both ends around it. And then it did very well. I did not expect it at all. I expected it to majorly underperform. And from there I I I can get more into the technical stuff.

Like sorry I have a tendency to go a little off rails with this.

“But that's why we it's the purpose of this.”

Please treat us like total morons. We're morons. And I and we I want to learn everything about what you're doing because not only is it incredibly successful, but if I can shook me to my core last night. Yeah, he got really tough and so I think it's amazing.

I love I kind of if I'm catching what what I'm what you're saying here is you liked the limital thing and you saw it and you're like I can fucking do that. And then you did and you nailed it and they were kind of like I'm you know it reminds me of like it's not necessarily. What you are what you are want to do with the rest of your life. I'm guessing here. I'm guessing here.

You know, but you fucking you're better at it than anyone else. And it reminds me a lot and this is a crazy comparison. But how fucking Bob Dylan started. He wasn't a protestor, but he's like he was listening to the protest music. He's like, I can write better protest music than that.

And he became one you know, and then became the best at it. You know, and it's like, so that's what I'm kind of sensing from you. And what you're doing right now is terrifying.

You know, it's kind of like where what makes with I kept thinking of the whole time and watching and like are you just sitting behind a computer like freaking out or you just enjoy it.

“That's happened before it's it's more the and also the Bob Dylan comparison is quite high praise.”

But but the making of it has kind of recently become more technical I would say as it becomes more of a job that's something I've been thinking about. And every now and then there will be a project where it does feel more fluid and more alive in a way where it's kind of like interacting with the thing outside myself. That can be said very heavily for the series idea to after background. Well, I'm still doing back rooms, but it's kind of the movie deal has caused the YouTube end of it to kind of pause, but I'm I'm all of that started the pickup like right now in my own life.

I don't know when this podcast will go out, but like this is it's coming back to my life now and hopefully back to YouTube in the nearest future. But the series ended after that was called the oldest few I would consider that my best work to date. Probably more than back rooms, but it's it's this the mall one that I made a tiny hint at earlier, which I can talk about in a moment because it's the one the production of that is probably the most interesting to talk about. We just talked about it was yeah we just watched it's fucking awesome.

They don't need any introduction. They are the scumb dogs of the universe squars. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Quar international rock and roll sensation yes from the other galaxies of the universe right come dogs for the scumb dogs. Yeah, he's what's dirty, dude. Fuck yeah, I don't know. You're thinking about like you ever want to keep up with the Jones it's like does the Instagram make you jealous. No, I just need a dentist. This is really hurt. I'm looking for a dentist.

Have you ever thought about? Yeah, yeah, they keep saying it. Keep saying it, but honestly you won't take you like like you've got type three. I still got my feet. I just didn't know whether or not there's any pressure for the unrealistic beauty standards for you guys. Now because you guys are happy with my stuff. I'm content in my own skin.

You're absolutely right though. There's an unfair standard of beauty that as a as a woman in the business. I have to ask, you know, nobody asks as just back how old he is.

No, but that's the first question they ask.

Look at me and then look at me. You're the only single you're the one who went to funny. Yeah, and then pigs like you ask to be if I've had Botox. Yeah, I just want our audience to understand that not everything else as a pure as it does on social media and then when they see you,

“and they look up to you and they think that that's what I want to strive for and be.”

I want them to understand there's a whole process to that. That's right. That's not a filter. You can't get this, it's not an Instagram filter. No, there's a lot of, I use a lot of filler. I'm your play.

So welcome to last podcast and left and we have a very special person on this guy.

Honestly, what's funny about this man is that not only is he because on his way to becoming an extremely powerful man.

And he's he becoming a legitimate and crazy director. He used man started from the humble humble beginnings of sketch comedy. Oh, don't say it. Just like us, just like our shit filled lives. He pulled through.

He pulled himself up from the swamp and he made it to the big time. Why, you think you better than me? Yeah, he thought you fuck a tough. You don't know nice which offense you clear glasses. This is the director of the new hit weapons.

And the former hit current hit barbarian. Woo! And one of the Lord creatures of whiteest kids you know. It's that quicker. Thank you for being here.

I'm so thrilled to be here. I love the show and it's, it's, it's a treat. Thank you so much.

“Henry, have you talked about how you came in to help me with barbarian?”

Exactly. Only little little pieces. Because I didn't even know what the full extent of my voice was used. Well, sadly it wasn't. It was very kind of you to help them.

Because what was going on is I was trying to get the screen down for the mother. And I just could not get the screen. And I was listening to your podcast and you're doing some fucking character. And you, just like very casually.

You did this like amazing blood curdling shrink.

“And I was like, that's, that's what I want.”

I was like in the show. He did it. And so I got a hold of you. And you were so kind to come in. And I made you scream for 20 minutes.

It was my pleasure. Yes, it was my pleasure. No, it was so much fun. It's a good bring-up. So we know each other from way back in the day.

Why this kids was always held as like this wonderful scene.

Because we go. The goal. The goal. I'm sure you hated us. Just like every other sketch group hated us.

You know what dude? It was nice is that you guys were awesome. It's wonderful. It was extremely sweet to us. You never made us feel stupid.

We were told because we were the only other independent sketch comic group. But when we arrived, we were like a part of a pastiche of independent sketch comedy groups.

“And like you were like kind of the bastard.”

You guys were the light on the hill that like, "Oh, if you just, if you're just funny and you're right place right time, they give you a television show." And then you sealed up the door behind you. You really did.

That was part of our deal, really. Yeah. Yeah, no. But the part of sketch comedy. I feel like now we're seeing--

We haven't had Peter been trying to help us for a hot second. You could do shit with us. We could do shit with us. We were fucking disaster. We were hammered.

We were disgusting. You think we weren't hammered? Are you kidding? We got them. We got them. We got them.

But a lot of people now, like, you know, Jordan Peel, a lot of people are seeing this connection between horror and comedy. And I think it's getting kind of like, everybody's saying sort of the same thing. Right? Where that comedy hinges on timing and visceral response,

which is very similar to humor. But I think it's deeper than that. Oh, tell me, tell me. Well, no, I wanted to ask you if you felt that exercising dark ideas through sketch comedy actually creates

a darker vision for, like, the world in general.

What an amazing question that I have never really considered.

And I think you could be right. And here's what I'm going to go with you on this journey. Here's because all the brainstorming that we would do to sit down and just start, like, okay, sketch ideas, sketch ideas. You know, because we've all been there, like,

what would be crazy? You just start pushing your brain to think of, like, what's an extreme situation? And I did that all day, every day, for, I don't know how many fucking ears I committed

all of myself to widest, because, basically, a decade. Yeah, you know? So I think, like, if there's a gym, you know, like, a mental gym, I was working out the muscle group that was, like, how far can I go?

You know, how can I go left when I should go right? You know, so maybe that's, maybe that's in there. Maybe that's-- I feel like movies are almost like a series of sketches, like, getting you from scene to scene in a weird way.

Do you think that horror movies, like, comedies hinge on pivotal scenes, or versus entire arcs? Well, that's a great question too.

“I think, look, a horror movie must have scenes that scarier, right?”

If you want to horror movie and you're never actually scared,

but it's telling a great story. It doesn't mean it's a bad movie. It just means it's probably not really a horror movie. It's a drama. So, yeah, or it's a mystery.

It's a thrill, whatever it is. You know, I don't know. But I mean, the best horror movies will have those, but they'll still, like, you could take the scares out, and it would still tell a compelling story.

Like, the shining is still a fascinating story, even if it wasn't, you know, as viscerly terrifying as it is. Because I want to know, I want to track this guy's decline, and I want to watch how his family has to react. I think that's, that's a really engaging story.

So, I'm trying to think of, like, a terrifying horror movie, where if you took all the scares out, it would be, like, let's say, let's say I'm a terrifying, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's terrifying too. Which is, like, for me, I view that even closer

to like a comedy in terms of, you have set pieces. Like, terrifying or, too, has set pieces that the movie sort of moving towards that, - Yes. - That, yes. Allow these things to collide,

where, like, you did that so well in weapons with the kind of way you told the story, where you set four lines out at each other, and then they all collide together. - Yeah. - But terrifying, too,

is a much more deeply simplified version of what you did. You know, like, it's even much more simplified. It's much more directed. Obviously, it's like, we got to kill a bunch of people, like, you know, like, terrifying or, too, you know,

the idea is to get just piles of guts. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It's just kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. By the way, I really liked Terrifier, too. - So not really, there are many people.

When I went to Frightfest in 2022, the only movie I was like, I gotta clear my schedule to go see Terrifier, too, 'cause I had been, I loved Terrifier one,

like, this many years to see this fucking thing. I am ready, so I'm really happy with it. - Yeah, I'm in to it. - I was blind to all of them at once, just 'cause I was literally scared to see him. - Oh, really? - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

'Cause I just, like, I don't know if I could handle all this score. And then, so I was just like, then we, we interviewed David Howard Thornton, so I just watched all three, like, right in a row, and that was fucking, that's the way to do it.

- And he's the set of little cow poke, southern boy. If we're talking to him, and then the clown. - Oh, he's all like, - Well, gee, Gali, I don't even know how all this happened. How does the theater bond, I just, I love musicals,

and I, and it was amazing, honestly. - Yeah. - In, I last night, I had the pleasure of seeing weapons in a packed theater. Wednesday night, packed theater. Tuesday night, I saw it in a packed theater,

and not just that, it was playing multiple theaters at once, and it was like, everyone was going to see weapons. It was fucking awesome. - That's wild.

- But the reality is, there was a part in this

that I wondered people were talking in the lobby. - Oh, yeah, everybody, I was hanging in the lobby. You have such a great, like, when you were making, when you were making this movie, you're visiting Exorcist 3,

did you put Exorcist 3 in this scene? Exorcist 3, I think it's amazing. - Did you, did you, did you, were you inspired all by Exorcist 3?

“Because I think you have one of the best jump scares”

that I've seen in a fucking minute, dead dead. - I know what you're talking about this ceiling. - Yes. - Yes. - I mean, that's got to come from Exorcist 3, but that's kind of a combination of three jump scares.

Obviously, the Exorcist 3 ceiling gag is not a jump scare. It's just deeply off-putting. - Yes. - You know, it's, it's, and it's great. It's mesmerizing and I love it. The Exorcist 3 jumps scare, which is to my,

for my money in the top five of all time, is the hallway crash zoom on that fucking lady with the, with the scissors. That to me, I get into the hair on my neck standing up right now, thinking about that scare.

It's so good. I don't know how it, it freaked me out so much the first time I saw it, and it's one of those scares where I could still put it on right now, and it would still kind of get me, you know?

I love it so much. The other one, and this is a little less like hip cred here, but the country dude, the best sheba on top of the arm bar. Oh, and tilted up, and she jumps. I was not ready for that dude.

That annihilated me in the theater. Dude, the first conjuring fucked me up. It was the best. Dude, the clapping sequence, it's ruthless.

I always think of the city as two, though,

which is my other big commercial one. I, I almost killed my mother. They knew it was coming, and you they ate. I saw it with my mom, and I knew the devil. The fire devil scene was coming.

And so I cried over the shoulders. Yeah, I cried behind the chair that she was sitting, and I pretended to go to the bathroom, and I crawled behind the chair. And he's a popped up.

I almost fucking killed her. Man, I was so worried. But I do believe that's an insidious one. Yes, yes, insidious.

“That's why that's my other favorite jumpscare.”

But like, when you're thinking about the movie, when you're writing it, like, do you think about it in that way, like, for those jumpscares, for stuff like that, like, because in weapons, it came at a very specific moment, obviously.

It felt like it, you know? Yeah, we're like, it almost felt like the movie kicks in. Hard, like, like, you're watching and all of a sudden, it was like, the movie changed. Is that on purpose?

To a degree, yeah. So my writing process is usually very stream of consciousness. I don't outline. I don't know where I'm going to go.

So, like, I remember the first pass I did

at that point in Justin's chapter. I actually didn't really know where the kids went. I didn't know what was behind them running away. So I was kind of, like, just like improvising. And so I don't think I put that ceiling scene nightmare in

because I didn't know that Gladys existed. Yeah. And so when did Gladys show up for you? I think in the cop stuff, when I was getting into Paul on the cop and the junkie is when I kind of figured it out.

“I think by the time I wrote James's chapter, I had that idea.”

I was like, the kids are in the basement. Why, though? Why would the kids be an Alex's basement? You just feel like it's where they had to be. And then I just kind of had this idea of, like,

this is going to sound really woo. And I really don't like to talk about the meaning of the movie. But I have said this before. So I guess I can let this much out of the bag because it's already out. But like, the Gladys and Alex chapter to me

is just about living with an alcoholic parent. I grew up in an alcoholic household. I had a dad died of cirrhosis. And it's a terrible thing that comes into a family dynamic. And it changes everything.

And so I had a happy house. And then something came into my house. And it turned my dad into a scary person. And I'd go to school and everything's cool. And I'd go home and I'd have a scary house with a scary dad.

And so like, that to me felt so interesting. And this is such a personal movie. So it's like, yeah. There's no other thing like less than in this movie. There's not like, I have nothing to say with this movie.

I'm not, I have no pretence of like this is a treatist or anything like that. It's just a diary entry for me. And it just felt good to kind of have this dynamic at the core of it.

out into this town.

And so that's all that is.

Now, many people would say many people. Just took my manager, my family. 30 people. A lot of people might say that when a broadcaster has found himself interviewing a dog, that that would be the low point of their career.

Absolutely. But why is it my high point? I gotta say, I'm thrilled today to be joined with the wonderful, absolutely good boy, doctor, Henry, Indiana Jones. So good to have you here.

Have you been, how are you enjoying LA?

“Have you gone out to, have you tried the vegan food yet?”

Have you been to the Chateau? Ooh, you would do great at the Chateau. Have you gone to the Chateau because, honestly, I feel like that's like one of those things to see at the Chateau would suit you. Yeah, it really, you would look good there.

You would be good there. And if you wanted to, you can go to the bathroom and call it the Chateau. Nothing, huh? Wow, something on that. I do puns.

Your father, Ben Leonberg, directed this film. Do you feel that he in many way sort of, I don't know, because your dog might have skirted around some of the child labor laws? Yeah. Do you know that Ben is actually, I hate to do this?

What? Not your father? Don't do this. No, I mean, but he's, I mean, obviously your dog and he's a man. And you're not his son.

Ben is the father that stepped up. Yeah. So how do you feel about your stepfather?

So tell me, when you first got this script, how did you choose it?

“Was it one of those where, like, you know, you've been auditioning for years?”

And you're like, finally, like, this is me. I'm in this film, right? Or is it just because you needed the money? Yeah. And were you not willing to put on the, the weight for Beethoven?

Look at nothing. Jesus Christ, nothing, huh? You know, I don't know whether or not you're being paid by big government to be silenced. Yeah, but you got to understand that part of your job as an actor is to do promo.

Okay. Yeah, you got to hit the road. You got to get out there and talk to people about your movie. Or no one's going to go fuck and see it. Nobody's going to see it unless you press it.

You know, this is like when we tried to have Billy Bob Thornton. Yeah. We had Billy Bob Thornton in one time and he literally showed up dressed as a French mine and he didn't speak on and you wouldn't even know it was Billy Bob Thornton. You also ate his own shit.

Yes. Which was like, he said something was about like he said human composting. Yeah. He said that was his new diet or whatever. Have you ever met Billy Bob?

I'm just, wow.

“I just wonder if this someone says anything to do with some of those recent.”

Are you in the pub scene files? Are you in the pub scene files? Are you in the pub scene files? Answer us. Where is it?

You take pub scenes plane. Where you want dog Lolita one. Because it's legal for you. There's no, there is no age of consent. Dogs get pregnant before they're one.

Yeah. So it's not even that big of a deal. Now, now that you're like, you're an actor. Do you still believe in money over bitches? Yeah.

Now that you can get anything you want and you kind of treat that you want. You know, you can get heart guard sent to the house. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, what was your first expenditure?

Yeah. I got being shy. Yeah. He wants a peer. Like, you know what it is?

I get in a way that he wants to appear like he's still one of us. I'm sure. I'm sure. Did it now? Are you in sag or wag?

About none union. None. We're gonna talk about that with Ben. Oh, non, non union. That's a boo.

That is a nice day. Good luck. Not a good luck. Hey, big girl. Yeah, yeah, for that.

Oh, actually, no, they shot Montana. Oh, so they don't care. Interesting. Montana doesn't care. They just hoard water there.

They do hoard water. Well, you're not gonna answer our hardcore questions. I don't know what you're gonna do when you go on access. Hollywood, after us. Yeah.

I can't believe that. Good boy. He's a bad dog. You're a bad dog. Bad dog.

Bad boy. Bad dog. Bad boy. I don't like being around you. You're like not only.

Don't do that. No, it's not true.

He's very attractive. He's the handsomeist person in this room. Yeah. God, I bet you get all the bitches. All right, let's try to talk to his fucking father.

It's not his father. He's not your father. I'm your friend. Now, your lead actor was a bit difficult at the top of the interview. Yeah.

What up with that? Yeah. I mean, he refused to read a script for the entire duration of the shoot. He really doesn't understand that he's in a movie. I cannot say that enough.

It's like him. Gary Bucy.

When did the second chance to start?

You mean, like, when did like how often are we going to do this? These guys, it don't understand. You can't pee in front of everybody. The trick is figuring out how to make a movie around them. Yeah.

“Generally, that's what it takes, is that, you know, in need doesn't understand he's in”

a movie. I've got to talk about Gary Bucy. Yeah. I mean, he does. Yeah.

That might be how it works. Yeah. You're like, you're Gary. I will say. It's possible, Gary.

We're here.

Aim the choppers over here.

I'm your grade. Oh, man. I love just how it's spooky even talking to you over zoom. We can't even bring the audience in. We had a little bit of a technical or fluffle, but it's still right.

It's still frightening because we're watching it. It seems like I don't know why. I don't know what it is, but your energy that they leave the tubes are afraid of. But we have the one of our new horror icons. Yes.

We're very excited to have the actor who portrays art the clown. Nate is art the clown. David Howard Thornton. Thank you for being here. Yeah.

Are there any clowns that you would like study to get manuscripts or is this all just like you? Oh, yeah, definitely so. I mean, I grew up watching a lot of the great silent comedians and clowns. I mean, I was watching like, you know, Mark's brothers and Charlie Chaplin and all

even like Emily Kelly Jr. and Emily Kelly and. Gosh, Mr. Bean was a huge influence on me as well. Yeah. Marcel Marseille Marseille Peter Sellers, you know, Don Nott. I can just go on and on list all these Jim Carrey.

Just on and on and on. Actually, Stephen, who I understood for Grinch. He was professionally trained in clowning in mind work. So I took a lot of what I learned from Stephen and put it into art. You can actually watch videos of Robbie Rotten and compare them to art the clown.

And you'll see probably a lot of similarities with the mannerisms. God, that's interesting.

“Now, is there any music that like you would listen to to kind of like getting the mood?”

You know, it just like do you like play circus music or something before you get out there? No, not really. I mean, not for myself, but like I a lot of the times in the chair when Damon especially in parts wanted to and Damon was doing my makeup. He was listening to a lot of yacht rock. Yeah.

That's what I think is so funny. People probably think, Damon is like this hardcore badass listening to heavy metal all the time. No, man, he grooves to yacht rock. He loves yacht rock and 80s music. We will drive like when we're going to set something like two hour three hour drives, sometimes upstate.

We would just be sitting there listening to like yacht rock and 80s music the whole entire time just grouping out. That's that's just how we are. But like for myself though, I will sometimes just for shits and giggles put on something. I sometimes would like to put on like the song Danny Elfman song for the first Batman movie What the jokers like waltzed the death.

Oh, yeah.

I think that's just always just puts me that little wacky little mister this evil clown type of mode.

So sometimes I would just think that in my head if I have to go old a little bit nuts. I guess you could say. Yeah. Do you feel like now that the movie got like terrifier three probably got the biggest like budget the most legit budget.

“How is it going from being driven by the director to set who would do the makeup?”

Then you'd shoot obviously probably like five how much the most you're shooting crew possible. Like an actual movie set. Like how would like sort of you mess or is there anything go it's better? Oh, we still had a lot of the old school field to it. Because we weren't a full on like traditional movie set where we didn't have the honey wagons or anything like that.

So it wasn't a big hugely. But it was we did have you know makeup team that came in this time and so that was definitely a nice thing to have there because it allowed Damien more freedom to because he wasn't having to stop my making go and go on to set and do stuff. They come back and do my makeup more and stuff. So that was nicer in that way, but yeah, we're still not like what you traditionally see here in Hollywood on a set. So we were still had that that you know independent.

And then be able to a lot of things because they changed the makeup to right then they do thing because it used to be sort of despair different separate pieces.

No, it was always a one-hole mask, but the original mask wasn't even molded to my face.

It was Mike Jenelli's original mold. Yeah. So we didn't fully fit my face Damien always had a manipulated suit fit my face. But this time Christian Tinsley who his team that did are make up for this one on part three, they actually did a new sculpt in mold of my face. So it's a little bit more gaunt than the last one was because Damien wanted art to be more gaunt than this one.

It's good. Oh, I love that look. And they also gave me a skull lenses for for my eyes this time. So I my eyes were different in like part two I had my natural green eyes and part one I had context for a little bit. And then like we had one night where I had a rip in my lenses. And so I couldn't wear them for that night was we had a film.

So we decided from that point on I would just be wearing like my. And if anybody knows what the hell, you know, yeah, why you're not paying attention to the right thing. Yeah, exactly. And I kind of just say in my head like the eye color changed after he got knocked out by the exterminator. So it's like, oh yeah, the context popped out and so now.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, but this one he noticed. You know, he's rebirth. So now he's he's become more demonic in part three. It has different eyes going. This is the question that we were talking about before.

Is he a human in the first one?

Yes.

“Okay. And when does he like when does it become supernatural at the very end of part one where he's brought back from the dead?”

Yes. And then like so he was just a man. Yes. And so the face underneath the makeup you would assume would have just been like art the clown. So what's on the clown?

What was his day like? Yeah, what did he do during the day? What did he say? Job. What was that?

You can't say it. You can't say it. Wow. Yes. All right.

I'm glad there is an answer. Yes. That's what it was things to work. God, that'll be great. Everyone would be very excited to see that jump in.

Yeah. I will say this that I know from one thing for his origin. We don't want to make him a sympathetic character. No. We don't want him to have one of those tragic backstories where he was abused and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Basically, how I view him in my head is he came out of his mother's womb and strangled her with his own in Biblical court. He's just evil incarnate.

“He is just, that's why hell lasted on this guy.”

He's like, this is our avatar on earth. We love this guy. He's horrible. Yeah. We love this guy.

Yeah. It's the same variant of the he's from the seed of a thousand maniacs. Yeah. Exactly. He was just born evil.

And that's the thing. He's like, I do generally believe there are some people that are that way. They just came out of the womb and they were just fucked up in the head. I knew a kid like that will growing up or he was a kid that lived across the street from one of my best friends and I saw him flat out.

Just take glee and killing, you know, squirrels. Yes. Right. He would like shoot him with his baby gum and watch them bleed out or he would just strangled them himself.

And I was like, this kid's just evil. My mom was like, do not play with that kid ever again. He's evil. Yeah. And that's how I view art.

He was just born that way. He just had that tendency from the very get go. He just loved to kill things and brought him joy. I also find that people that have the happiest existence play on repentant maniacs really well. And I can tell from the Lego on your dog behind you.

You seem like a very happy go lucky man. That comes from years of struggling. Yeah. Yeah.

That's, you know, I was bullied relentlessly growing up but it's like I always how I escaped

all that was finding the things that brought me joy and brought me happiness. And so it's like, I am a child a heart and a lot of ways.

“I guess some people would say, I, you know, like I have a, what is it?”

A rest of development. Yeah. We will have said that about me too and it's like the Everton. Whatever you idiot. Whatever you fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking fucking stupid face.

Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Oh, I'm a child. Well, you're fucking.

You got big ass stupid thing. Thank you. Yeah. Oh, I think that in your pocket if you ever need. Oh, you're turned on.

Oh, yeah. I, I think it's just all that bullying I went through. I said, it's like, I think I've been able to channel a lot of that on. I mean, they're even times on set where like, you know, I'm just not fully giving them what they need for a, an attack or something like that.

And they'll just go, hey, Dave, just pretend it's this certain person and go. And I like, yeah, like, oh, shit, Dave, where that kind of like repressed rage. Yeah. I'm your slave.

We interviewed Joe Hill, author Joe Hill a few months ago.

Yeah. Fantastic man. It went so well.

“We never, we didn't really even say anything about his dad.”

Yeah, we didn't say we said nothing about his dad. We were so cool during that interview. But it went so well that he came back and he brought his father. Stephen King with us. That's right.

He was like, I got my dad. You guys are talking about me and I got my dad here now. But then he did a whole thing. You'll see in the interview where he's like, my dad will beat you all up. Yeah.

Stephen King stood up and he was like, come here. You're a little effort. Yeah. You know, one thing, speaking of grotesque gifts, you know, disturbing gifts. John Wayne Gacy sent my dad some art back in the day from prison.

And actually, I found that so disturbing.

That's in the first paragraph of heart shape box.

Yes. You know, that kind of hung in my mind. Because the other thing is his Gacy wasn't terrible. I mean, he was obviously terrible. He was hit.

I can't undeline enough. How terrible he was. Well, he was a funny guy. He was funny guy. He's pretty single that out.

You're screwed. Yeah. Yeah. That's not to be the clip to sell this episode. John Wayne Gacy was pretty good.

You know, but when he did, he was a fun guy. Yeah. You could, you could do a passable. He could do passable like Disney characters. And stuff.

Well, he used to do paint by numbers.

You used to go and get the like he would have a whole system of other serial colors, including one of the, the guys from the Chicago Rippers. And he also had the guy that killed everybody to avoid the earthquake in Southern California. Yeah.

Herbert Mullin Herbert Mullin. He had other serial killers working for him on an assembly line, painting these paintings for him. That's not true. Yes.

Because he's, he literally was a job creator. He was a executive manager. He was a project runner. That's what he did. He was a project manager.

So they had an art club in prison. It was a kind of like a chain gang.

“Like literally you need to kind of force them to do stuff.”

And then they would bring in. There's a whole story about how John Wayne Gacy was sort of gameed by this young man that called him and pretended to be really into him. And so this young man sort of arriving to visit with John Wayne Gacy.

And then the two of them would talk to the other serial killers, like they were his little like crew. Like it was like like his little brothers. So don't feel that honored about the art. Is it like that?

I can't come from men but with art. Yes. Yes. Do you find that in speaking of terms of collaboration? Because you guys worked together.

Because John Wayne Gacy can really run that type of collaboration. I'm sure you guys really, you guys put some really good stuff together. Like because in the tall grass was a great thing. Like how do you guys feel like when you're together working? We've only done it twice.

We've only done it twice. We wrote in the tall grass and we wrote throttle and you know, I mean, I feel like when I the times I've written with that, you ever see in like the Warner Brothers cartoons when while he coyotes climbs on an acne rocket

and lights the fuse and then suddenly it takes off under him. Yeah.

“That's what it's like writing with my dad.”

I feel like I'm just kind of hanging on for dear life. You know, I'd sort of like sweat pull my hair out over like three pages or something. And then I'd email it to him and like 45 minutes later he'd be like, "It was great. Here's five more pages."

He's crying. I wrote five questions. Well, you know, those two is a time when I was chemically assisted by some of those things in the books with Peter Straub in the early days. But those days are behind me now.

Yeah. Now it's just what Cialis law did. A lot of snapple. That's what I'm doing. I crush up my Cialis right into the right and down.

I just do it. I do it line by line each day just to get me going to do podcast. Yeah. And under the lid of those snapples they got funny little things. You think the slide right in the book?

You know, if you wanted to. It's so good. And if you say so. I'm glad I'm your friend. How do you write books?

How write books? One of the things that, you know, he talked about characters that died. A little boy died at the end of Coojo in the novel in the movie. He used his boiler.

Joe. No, no. I can 50 years old. Almost. Go read Coojo.

But in the movie, he lives. But he got met by the rabbit dog.

“So I think he died horribly of rabies after the.”

He died. But you know, the thing is when children die or adults die in books. That's one thing. Don't let a dog die. You know, I have heard more about that.

I mean, Greg Stillson kicks a dog to death at the beginning of the dead zone.

I've never heard the end of it.

Yeah. That's that's an automatic one star after a good retraining. You kill. I killed cat in a story called Jackknife. And I have eaten so much shit about it online.

You know, my my mother's dog, who I took in. Tootsie, she actually passed away yesterday out of complete, you know, randomness. She was only 19 years old. So, you know, why don't you get almost by a beer. Why don't they go so young.

But I so we did a wonderful thing with her. We took her up and we put her up. We brought her body up a hill. And then, you know, we we put her in the ground. And there was a beautiful rock structure on the ground.

It was like, somehow it was as gorgeous. And then we were putting her in the ground. And it was like, it was thin soil. It was sour.

And so I'm hoping when I get home,

I should be there waiting for me. [ Laughter ] That cemetery. Yes. [ Laughter ]

Go down that road. [ Laughter ] I'm not allowed to. I don't think that's better. You know, you're just -- I'm sorry.

Was that your junk crandle? Tom Tom? It's better. I hope that your routine doesn't depend on the quality of your impersonation. [ Laughter ]

How he was put in. Yeah, I was great. He was great. He was great. He was great.

Yeah. But I have to ask about Pennsylvania because, like you, I am a massive romance fan. Massive, massive, massive romance fan. And the story goes that it's been told that, you know,

you invited them over to your house when, you know, before Pett Cemetery was being made. And DD Ramone took a copy of Pett Cemetery, disappeared for an hour, and came back with the song "Fully Written."

Did that -- did it actually happen that way? No. Okay. How did it actually happen? Yeah, I love getting past images and stories.

I said, I said, "Would they write?" You know, my idea was that they would do the soundtrack for Pett Cemetery. And that didn't fly, but they did do that song. I don't want to be buried in a Pett Cemetery. And that was -- what -- you talk about a great line.

I don't want to live in Pett Cemetery. There you go. I don't want to live my life again. That's such a sad little -- sad little, you know. But every blanky nerd boy knows that feeling.

They're all just like I don't want to go through Junior High again. That's what it's about.

You know, we always get a whole album out of ACDC.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, they did the whole soundtrack to Maxim Mover Drive. I just saw that movie to prep for this.

“Do you remember directing any of that, Mr. King?”

Uh, yeah. I remember too much of it. Yeah. You know, this thing is -- I didn't -- you know what I said.

Yeah. Stephen, this is Dean of the Lereness. Is Stephen -- I think what we want to do is make a movie. And you're going to direct it. Well, I'd never done anything before.

I hadn't been in film school or anything. I learned, as I went along. I could actually do a pretty good job the next time. It was a blast. I haven't seen it.

I also feel a lot of attention. You have such a deep understanding of movies. Because you guys were both big media -- You guys watch a lot of movies. When you guys are writing novels versus --

Like, are screenplays like easier than a novel? Or is it like, like, because sometimes you're retrofitting from one of your other previous words. Like, what's the hardest thing that you do? What's the thing besides getting up in the goddamn morning?

“That's why I mean, going to the dentist, I think.”

Yeah. Yeah. We're having a prognological exam. Those are -- I mean, is it easier to write scripts or books? Which one is --

I mean, books I'd want to write books any day of the week over writing screenplays. But I do write screenplays because that's how I get my healthcare. So I'd write at least one script every year. You know, but you've had a lot -- you've done a lot more in that space. You've written whole TV shows.

You know, like, not just like the pilot or something, but like every -- literally every episode, I think you wrote every episode of Golden Years. You wrote every episode of Lucy's Story.

But does it suck to go from being able to be lored and create

or in your own world of writing a novel to, like,

“having to go talk to a bunch of suits that are building?”

And trying to tell them what your ideas are. Do you just -- you're just not caring. They just, like, oh, whatever you want, Mr. King. No, I mean, it isn't that way really. But what I do because I have this wonderful cushion

that I don't have to write for the rent every month. And that's a big fucking deal, as you guys probably know. And the thing is, I can write a script on spec. And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I did a series of scripts for a show called Storm of the Century.

Yeah. And that's my favorite one, really.

You know, if that really turned out well.

And because I had a good relationship with director, you know. Well, it's also really glad -- I'm glad to hear that the only fans is really working out for you guys. And then the bad is really paying the bills.

“And I just really -- I think that that's really great for you guys.”

It's regular -- I've noticed that you have the same director do your stories, you know, like your multiple movies. Is there a certain director you think that understands your stories better than anyone else? Mike Flanagan. Yeah.

Life a shock. He's good. He's good. But who's the other guy? I want to say he's got like a name like Jack Holden or something

or maybe he directed the hitter? You're talking about Jack Bender. Jack Bender was that meant to thank you. You just saved us. [ Laughter ]

You know what? You're still bad. Jack Bender is terrific. And he's somebody who can do things that are just wonderful on a low budget and short time.

And he's fantastic. Both of those things. And it doesn't look phone dead. You know, that's great. Let's see, like speaking of things that you've written for the screen.

Like I -- one of the massive influence on me was the TV miniseries for the stand that, you know, came back in 1994, like that. It blew my mind when I saw that when I was a kid. But, you know, with, you know, writing that, and also, you know, writing the novel,

which is also, of course, incredible.

“When COVID came around in 2020, were you surprised by how people acted?”

Or were you pretty much like, okay, this is what I expected to happen when a play hits? Well, one thing that did happen is this is horrible to say, but the book went through the roof again. [ Laughter ] And we have truly -- this is, obviously, a pillar of our world.

The ultimate man of nightmares, the star of arguably the peak of his career, Pinocchio Unstrunk. [ Laughter ] It's Robert England. Thank you so much for joining us today.

I think that you -- your persona as, like, the master of horror also sort of, like, paint how people react to you. Like, do you think that, like, you -- do you -- do you really just appoint people by not being a child murderer? [ Laughter ]

Well, here's the thing. I had a fat 10 years in Hollywood before I ever did Freddie. Yeah. And in that 10 years, I did a dozen movies and starred in half of them. You know, again, you know, I starved in Jeff Ridges and Sally Field

and Henry Fonda, Jeff Ridges. You want to answer that? Especially, what was Charles Bronson like? Charles had a guy in a system who had a little miniature ticker tape with him. And he would be checking his stock market.

[ Laughter ] And he also -- he also went tear-out dialogue. You know, and keep it real simple, of course. And parse his lines down to smaller, clean lines of dialogue. And also, I watched him and he would reach --

he would practice reaching for a prop. So he didn't have to look at it when he went to get it. And he'd measure it off. And in a way, he moved and rehearsed his physical stuff like a dancer. He wasn't big.

He was compact, but he moved beautifully, like Lee Marvin moved beautifully. Or Kevin Bacon moves really well and interesting.

And I watched him do that, like he would measure his grip from coffee cups,

“so that he could just keep talking to you and reach out of frame”

and bring that coffee cup in, you know, or -- -- from that bottle, you know, and switch hands. And, you know, he just -- he was great that way. He really moved -- do you see some of his movies, Kato's land. And things like that, and watch him move.

It's just beautiful to watch. We forget, you know, how big Charles Bronson was. Every culture in the world thought he was one of theirs. [ Laughter ] The Russians thought he was Russians.

He was Polish. He was Polish. Well, Kato was. You know, Czechoslovakians thought he was Czechoslovakians, Spaniards. Spaniards thought he was Spanish.

Yeah.

He's also here that it is a synthetic way about him to kind of cut through everything.

I feel like that's a thing about actors. We're missing a little bit now. It's like anybody can impersonate Charles Bronson. Anybody can impersonate Marlon Brando. You know, the voice so indicatively.

About Jimmy Stewart's hesitant delivery. Yeah. Or Henry fondasmid western accent. Yeah. Or Brando.

Or John Wayne. You recognize them when you heard them. Let alone when you saw them. It was a signature voice.

“And I think that that's something that actors have to realize”

has is part of the component, you know, of an actor. You know, everyone's like either certain actresses

that have such beautiful deep husky voices.

You just love hearing them speak. It makes them just that much more fascinating or sexy. Or, you know, you like that. Yeah. They come with a full toolbox.

You know, so to speak. And we've lost that a little bit. You know, you know, and I think that people probably thought they could compensate by going to the gym, you know, or something. But you can, as long as you're taking your shirt off,

but then you also have to sound right when you speak. Well, that's you know. It's you so important. It's clearly you and Pinocchio and strong. It was great to hear your cursing.

I mean, all I tried to do was to avoid the Freddy laugh as much as I could because the Freddy laugh is an old class exercise from from voice class, you know, that I had.

“And that was my go to thing because it's about the breathing on the diaphragm.”

Yeah. Staying that laugh. And so my muscle memory, I fall into the Freddy laugh pretty automatically. Now I have to consciously pitch it higher and breathe less, you know, to get, you know, if I want to, if I'm doing an evil laugh when I'm doing a voice

over, you know, for animation or something now, I, I consciously have to pitch it high and bite off the air and turn it more into kind of like a demonic gig or something. So I don't, so I don't remind everybody that they're listening to Freddy Krueger. And it wasn't that great. That was truly one of the best things I've done.

Just being here. I'm doing it with the intro. Yeah. Yeah. The intro was actually right on the month.

That was better. That was great. It was a lot of the interviews for my perspective. You guys are really good interviews. Oh, thank you.

You're better. And you think you're. You're doing great, buddy. Sometimes I just don't want to meet the Steven King wasn't going to those guys. I work really hard of an interview.

It's a funny, because I actually cared way less about Steven King than Robert England. Yeah, Robert England's like my fucking childhood hero. Yes. Like, and I know it's weird to like, for Freddy Krueger to be your childhood hero. It's great.

It's actually kind of appropriate. But it is funny how he was so good at not answering the dumb questions. Oh, my god. No one is deflected. My question's better than Robert France.

He's a real fucker. Well, we'll see you all next week. Thanks everybody. Go check out all our socials. Go check out our Patreon.

Go check us out on Netflix. Have a good night. Have a good time. Have a good week. Have a good life.

We'll talk to you all soon. Hell's it. How game? Hell Robert France. France.

France.