Pinocchio Unstrung: An Interview with Robert Englund - Last Interview on the Left

>> That's our goal, Mr. England, we want to -- we're goal is to choke them all out.

>> And your job, your help today.

“That's what's going to push us over the edge.”

We're going to literally attack other podcasts in their dreams. >> I'm going to kill them one by one at a time. >> I like that kind of talk. [LAUGH] >> Very few times are the sacred audio hallways of last podcast and

left grace by true legends. But this time, one is here, I mean, on Zoom. Yeah, on Zoom. And we have, truly, this is obviously a pillar of our world. The ultimate man of nightmares.

The star of arguably the peak of his career, Pinocchio Unstrong. [LAUGH] >> It's Robert England. >> Thank you so much for joining us today. >> Well, I don't think I've ever been called sacred before.

[LAUGH] >> I kind of like it.

“I think we have to give a little cred here to the great Richard”

Break, who's plays Jepetto. >> Yes. >> He's playing strong because Richard's an old friend of mine and a previous co-star of mine in a little film with Robert Patrick and Hal Holbrook that we did together a couple years ago.

And I've just been, you know, such a fan of Richard's ever

sense, you know, following him, including his incredible turn on

Mayor of King's Town with Jeremy Renner. >> Right? >> Where he plays the white supremacist, you know, in jail. >> He's terrifying in that. >> And spoiler alert, the best death scene in a long time, just amazing.

The guy knows how to die. >> Yeah, he is legitimately, we saw Pinocchio Unstrong.

“Honestly, I was surprised at the level of art and care that went”

into this movie, into this independent production. But the puppets and the visual effects, how do you get involved in this, how they rope you in besides massive piles of cash? >> I think they, I wish they were matches. I hope they're not the piles.

Anyway, getting old piles means something different. >> No, you know, I knew about the Winnie the Pooh. >> Yeah. >> And my generation, and this isn't horror, but in a kind of mad magazine, Mad TV, SNL kind of way.

We had a sort of beloved experience with a show called Fractured Fairy Tales, which back in the '50s and early '60s was part of the Jay Ward, you know, Rocky and Bull Winkle, all of that stuff. With great voice work, Hans Conrade, lots of people. We're working for those teams back then.

So I've always loved the idea of that, and then in college.

And also during the many years of my, my sort of, I'm going to say, intellectual interviews regarding horror, especially in Europe. I was reminded of all of the stuff we talked about in school and later on with Bruno Bedelheim and Carl Young and all of the really source darkness. And Freudian sexuality and everything else that's in the actual fairy tales.

I mean, my God, Hansel and Greta is a cautionary tale by the terrible parents to their children. If you don't, if you do not behave, or if you do not behave, go back and go into the forest, into the black, dark forest. It's actually called the black forest. And what happens when you're starving, there's a famine going on in Germany. What happens when you're starving? What's the first symptom? You hallucinate. Pie, a great chocolate cake or perhaps a house with cookie shingles, you know, and made a food.

So I mean, this is all dark shit. I mean, also, I mean, rumples still skin. That's a nasty, nasty story. What's going on there? And so I think that the fairy tales after having been, and I don't say this as a criticism just as a fact, but after having been disneyed for many years and cleaned up, you know, so we don't hurt our children. I think what happened is it's almost incumbent upon us to sort of return some of them to their source, their dark, dark source.

Why are we literally so afraid to scare kids now? I know when I was a little boy, a lot of my favorite media also scared me.

I know a couple of blocks from me, and this is saved me from being pranked on Halloween where I live, but a couple blocks north of me.

Oak Street. I'm not a monster. But all the dads, all the dads who love Halloween and had their helicopter moms, you know, all the beautiful milks. And everybody, you know, is a little bit boozy, but great people and wonderful neighbors, but the dads were had it up to here with the kind of frozen princess Halloween. Yes, Halloween.

Yes. Yes. Dress up. Halloween is monsters. Exactly.

And the day of the dead and vampires and weird wolves and Frankenstein's and ghosts and skeletons. And it's the dark side. And they sort of had it with it going almost into some kind of ridiculous princess cosplay. And they sort of took over their street, made it really dark, all the decorations for Halloween. And you know, I was, when that happened, I was spared a lot of the sort of trick or treat traffic.

But I remembered back to when I was a kid.

And there was always a couple of kids that would be popular culture.

“I think my parents, my liberal parents even dressed me as Fidel Castro here.”

Yeah. That is one perfect time. Yeah. It was man of the year, you know. But that was a popular culture reference.

Maybe trying to win a costume contest or something at a neighborhood party. But we all wanted to be dark. You know, that was the whole thing back then. And we, you know, and it was always bargaining with your parents about how much fake blood you could put, you know, on your costume and stuff. And the pranks, you know, the sugar and the gas tanks and and waxing screens, you know, and ringing doorbells and disappearing and all of that.

You know, turns in paper bags being set on fire. All that good stuff. It was a dark night. It was a night of pranks. I'm not talking about vandalism, but good, good, all American fun.

It's a light thing.

“And I think it's got a little sanitized because some people did take it too far in Detroit and other places.”

So I think it got a little sanitized. And now there was a reaction against that. And I think that also sort of is the is the opening for a kind of politically and correct fractured fairy tale. That's right. It really works.

My favorite scene in the entire movie is when Pinocchio removes the guts from the person he went scooping all the guts out of the guy and then he's kind of cram all the guts back into his torso. That was one of my favorite because I was like, yeah, that is like he is just trying to be a real boy. Yeah, no, that's why we do real. I boy. But can I ask this is not a criticism at all.

But what part of Italy does this movie take place in the fact that a man is naturally named your pedo? Well, I think the original, the Colodi, the original story. I know I've been doing horror movies and published it in Italy since the very early 80s. And I love it. It's my favorite country.

But, you know, the Pinocchio puppets, you know, are ubiquitous. They're everywhere. And they celebrate Colodi as an Italian.

“But I think it's extreme Northern Italy.”

It's all, which is, which some people call the Tyrol, Tyrolian. Yeah. It's that blend of Austrian, Swiss, Northern Italy, a little German, the Tyrol. You know, leader Hosen and the food is a little different up there. There's the mountains have snow on them in the winter.

Yeah, it's not the south. You know, it's not the so-feel of Rand Naples. It's the north. It's very, you know, Italy's a big country. And it's very, like the United States, main is this different from New Orleans.

As New Orleans is, you know, from the coast of the state of Washington, or Oregon. They're very different. They're different people. They've different interests, different hobbies. And, and Italy's that way too.

Our PR tours easier in Europe than in America. Like when you woke up before, or the easier and more fun in Italy.

The difference for me was, and my first experience in Europe.

I'm the luckiest son of a bitch in the world. I had a back-to-back science fiction many series. It was international. And a horror movie within a year and a half. That was also an international hit.

And I was international, meaning people knew my name overnight.

And so I was there a lot. And it's, it's an interesting point of view.

In my first big astounding, you know,

a thing that I recognized was the respect for horror as a genre in Europe. Yeah. It's right up there with gangster movies and film noir and the western. They probably like it even more than the so-called romantic comedy. They have a back film.

It's good. But horror in those types of genre movies seem to really actually then put butts and seats. Well, it's not just that. It's, they recognize that the stylistic director can really show his stuff when he's working in the world of horror, fantasy, and science fiction.

“And that's why, you know, they worship, you know, Dario Adagento and the great Spanish vampire directors.”

And, and, and, and some of the English directors and the world of hammer films with Christopher Lee and Peter Cushing. Yeah. And, uh, and everyone, you know, Barbara Steele and everyone. So that world, you know, it has a kind of genre respect. And they, they respect it like the graphic novel or as another idiom.

Uh, uh, uh, of film like like the western. Yeah. You know, again, something else. So it's an equivalent.

It's not in America when I first started out and you were in horror movies.

And I had done a fat 10 years of, of, of, you know, alas films. Working with the biggest stars of the 70s for Reynolds and Charles Bronson. People forget how big these people were. And then, and Barbara Steele and a young Jeff Ridges and Sally Field. And Susan Sarandon and then Peter Strauss who was the god of TV movies along with Martin Schene.

Yes. But, but, you know, it was this strange thing, whereas in, in, they knew in Europe that this was a genre that had replaced the western and replaced the sort of Jimmy Cagney Edward G. Robinson gangster film. And, and it was to be respected. And, you know, it was, I had done the other work.

But I remember, I might have been paramount. But I remember the Friday the 13th guys and, and we're stuck kind of over by the kitchen door, you know, with a poor hole in them. When it's coming out with a tray, boing bang and in and out, the worst scene in the house.

“And yet it was, you know, a youth movie, dirty Mary and Crazy Larry, you know, with that nasty Susan St. George and Peter Fonda that I think saved Fox as a summer programmer, so that they had enough money to option star wars.”

And I think Friday the 13th really helped fill the coffers after the debacle of King of the Gypsies. You know, the big paramount flop. Yeah. Yeah. And so this is that thing, you know, they, the horror wasn't really getting respect. But it, it became a go-to money maker. And people forget, be movie, you know, in the 30s, 40s and 50s and 60s when you went to the movies, you got to see two movies for the price of one double feature, right? Double bill.

And the, the many times the second movie was considered a B movie, but doesn't mean bad or less than B means budget.

Yeah. Yeah. It just was on it, it, it, it, it, it was made on a different budget. Yeah. That's the other movie.

Yeah. And many of those movies have come to be some of our greatest films in the history of Hollywood. Yeah.

“Oh, yeah, because they cut, they lasted this span of time.”

They were running a movie podcast show when just now been talking about the idea of those movies hold up way more than the last five years of movies. Not besides Pinocchio and Strong. Yes. Yeah. The last five years of movies, many of these movies are going to kind of be forgotten because of the way they're being made.

I actually think that Pinocchio and Strong to be frank is a good indicator of that kind of coming to the other side of people of our generation. They're going to make and movies that love puppets, that love actual blood, love actual beer. Yeah. I mean, you know, blood and gore and action and violence and all of the ages better than part of the rest of the space. They're part of the recipe.

I mean, you know, I mean, I don't want to live in a world that doesn't celebrate the original invasions of the body snatchers. Yeah. You know, well, I don't want to live in a world that doesn't celebrate them. Yeah. You know, the judges have a movie.

It's bright, you know, these are great films and they were, they had to be made with a low budget. And so everybody was constantly on their toes from production design through camera through direction through the actors to do a good job. No one set out, you know, to make a cheap looking movie, you know, just because your budget was limited.

I don't play that game.

“I did another one in Urban Legend, which I'm very proud of.”

A lot of fun. Blossom, but great film.

And a terrific performance by Rebecca Gayhart.

And, and everybody's in that Brad Dorf's in that movie and and wonderful other actors. And then, you know, so I, I did one of those and then I did a kind of a classic kind of grind upon a 70's film called the last showing over in England. Yeah, which I'm really proud of. And I, you know, I, I did a little retro one for last Halloween, you know, Nadie Knox for my friend who I little wonderful director who did me did my Phantom of the Opera and an old old friend. But, but, you know, I've done different kinds.

And I realized I hadn't done anything down and dirty and nasty for a while. Yeah. And I knew about Winnie the Poo and I thought, you know, it's about time to, you know, put a little spice into my resume again, you know. So it was wonderful and easy for me to say yes to Pinocchio on strong even though we can talk about it like the European critics would, you know, over a glass of wine and a cigarette and a hotel lobby and Madrid. We can talk about the, you know, the, the coming of age story that that is Pinocchio, you know, but also we got the nasty bits.

I tell you what, I, I, let's just say we all, we're huge fans of Guillermo del Toro. But I say, a huge, huge, huge fans. But I, maybe one of my favorite movies. Love and I love Kronos. I love all of it. Yeah. All of us, he's old movies.

He's a double backbone. He's incredible.

Yeah. With a lighter without it. You can't get it. You're going to have a with a lighter without it. I love that brilliant actor that played the lead.

God. So good. Yeah. But I, I will say my taste runs more towards a Pinocchio on strong. Look at the story because we've seen the big fancy Pinocchio with that,

we've seen Pinocchio a thousand times. We had, what's his name, what's it? Roberto Bonini. Oh, everyone.

He's doing, he did his highfalut and Pinocchio.

We've seen highfalut and Pinocchio. Yeah. I understand that because what a fact of Benini was doing a salute to Italian culture. And how they think of that story. Because they do, they celebrate it.

It's, it's a, it's a national memory of a passage in childhood. You know, yes, where for us, for every kid that has a frozen as a natural passage of childhood, there's also a kid that had the exercise. You know, as a test, a passage of rights. And they're both, they're both to be celebrated.

Don't get me wrong. I just don't like it when we have, when we tend to think we have to like tone everything down.

“You know, I think people can handle that.”

I mean, that's the reason we have ratings. Yeah. You know, in the original Pinocchio from 1941 is terrifying. As far as Disney movies go, I'm going to call it the scariest one. There's some mutations stuff going on in that.

Well, I mean, I love night on my bald mountain from a foundation. Yeah. But I got to tell you. And then there's that weird necrophilia in Snow White. But I, I got to tell you know, I, I used to go for auditions at Disney back in the 70s.

And we actors passed around, you know, over a couple of beers at the local Pub and the Laurel Canyon. We would pass around that you go when you once you got that pass. And you're on the lot for an audition. And you park in that crappy lot, you know, in the heat of summer far away from everything. You can walk up onto the campus of the original, not the original.

But these studios of Walt Disney. Yeah. And you walk right in the animation building.

“And what our secret was, you walk up the stairs to the second floor.”

And they had a constantly changing evolving show of cells from all the Disney movies ever made. And I remember seeing the background cells for the island of lost boys from Pinocchio. Yeah. Pleasure Island. Wow.

There was some cool stuff. And later on, about another month later on, a callback or something. I saw all of the mutation cells and original drawings for Pinocchio's transformation. You know, oh, yeah, just great stuff there. Great crazy dark stuff.

And you'd see ones that weren't used. You know, a dark pencil drawing that wasn't used. It was just a little too hardcore, but still they, you know, they, there was, they knew where to draw the line where they thought they had to at that time.

Yeah. Yeah. It's terrifying that movie. I mean, when that transfer made one lamp with transforms into the donkey boy. Yeah.

And he'd go as a mental breakdown and starts breaking the mirror and like, play it all over the Instagram. Yeah. It's like the opening scene of a pop-up now. And I remember seeing the pencil drawings of donkey boy, you know.

And as a kid, that's terrifying. You know. Are there any parts or like things that you either went out for or saw that you're like, man, I wish I could have fucking done a shot at that. Well, no.

I mean, you know, we all, all of us. And you know, it's just what we thrive on, you know. It's a bit of a, along with a adrenaline. It's the ones that got away. I remember being called back several times for a film.

And it was, I think the most expensive film being made in Hollywood that year. Called March or die. A French Foreign Legion movie with Jean Hackman. And I didn't get the part. And I'm not, I can't remember the name of the actor that did.

He certainly didn't, you know, go on to do a lot of other stuff. Uh, and nothing. Because you murdered him and it's nothing against him. But I remember losing sleep over that. Yeah.

And I remember losing sleep. I got called back a couple of times for the great Jack Nicholson film, the last detail for the young sailor. The young sailor. The young southern sailor that goes to the brig.

And I remember reading the book. And in the book, I could be wrong about this. And my, my memory could be failing me here. But I don't remember him as being big. I remember the boy.

Yeah.

“That's why Jack Nicholson and his MP partner kind of save him.”

Because they know he's not going to survive the brig. And I, you know, and listen, you know, recent history, you know, notwithstanding Randy Quaid is a wonderful brilliant actor. From the last picture show to Missouri breaks and beyond. Randy Quaid is a wonderful actor.

And he was terrific. He was terrific in that film.

But I always thought he was too tall.

Just if you were seeing his sex tape. It looked like he could have, it looked like, well, it looked like Randy could have taken care of himself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. For sure. I had more ways than one. Yes.

Yeah. Whereas little robber, England, doing my little, you know, thin southern boy, who's my model. I loved him too much. You know, you know, you know,

you would have worried about me going to the brig. The Murray brig. You know. God. It was like it survived.

Talking about the past, I have that one of the major comedy influences to me was the Adventures of Ford Fairling. I loved that movie. I thought it was great.

You were wonderful as Smiley.

“How surprised are you to see Andrew Dice Clay become this like great actor?”

Well, here's the thing.

And it was always an actor.

Us, we actors. When I watched Andrew stand up back, I could see his recipe. And there was a little bit of fun. A little bit of like a fancy,

a little bit of like a fancy cursed. Okay. So that's, so Henry Winkler obviously got it from one of those long island guys. A little bit of joy, but a focal. Yeah.

Yeah. And that long island guy, you know, that that moment of time. And the way those guys treated and addressed women and talked about them,

which is crass and stupid, but also fucking funny, you know. And that he was doing a character. You know, he was doing a character of that guy. Yeah. He was a professional guy before that.

That you could laugh at and with. And it's a performance thing. So when I saw him and his other stuff, I wasn't surprised that Andrew's got some chops. I used to go when I got a big residual

through this gourmet market on Sunset Boulevard. And I had a lot of adventures in this market, you know, Christmas shopping one year. You know, stoned and things like that. But I used to see Andrew there a lot.

I think he had was driving a big, Cadillac convertible then. You know, and he would be in the parking lot. You know, shine in it, you know, and looking good for the ladies, you know,

all the milks that shop there from up in the house. From up in the Hollywood Hills, you know. And I, this is way long before he was, you know, the clay, you know, he was, you know, you know, and, and so it doesn't surprise me.

You know, I remember when he,

“I think I was in his dressing room talking about something”

when he signed the contracts for his first home.

And he was like a big kid. He was nervous about that, you know, that stack you have to sign by a house, you know.

I mean, I liked Nora on SNL.

But I think her protest against Andrew

“was a little misguided because that was a character.”

He was playing, you know. I certainly don't think Andrew, you know, hates women or anything like that. And, you know, Andrew went on to do Woody Allen movies and we had HBO showing lots of other stuff.

And the last thing I saw her was a toilet ball commercial, so I mean, and she's a wonderful actress. She's actually such an unnecessary thing, you know. It's like, you've got, yeah, early on,

I learned, you know, you can't be envious or jealous or competitive in that kind of, what's the word I'm looking for. You know, stern, you know, where you, where you, where you seek failure for your fellow artists, you know.

Yeah, Olivia, Olivia, Olivia.

I hate it when any movie bombs, even if it's a movie I don't like, because it's bad for Hollywood. I mean, just going to be less movies made. I want everything to be a hit.

And when I see actors, you know, make a lot of money that that maybe they don't, maybe they, there's other actors that deserve that more. That doesn't make me hate them, you know, or like them any less, just because they hit the jackpot.

You know, you just don't, that's just an unhealthy way to live. Oh, yeah, very much so. And like Androids Clay, do you think that you, your persona as like the master of horror, also sort of like paints how people react to you?

Like do you think that like, you,

“you, you, you, you just appoint people by not being a child murderer?”

[laughter]

Well, my, here's the thing.

I had a fat 10 years in Hollywood, before I ever did Freddie. Yeah. And in that 10 years, I did a dozen movies and starred in half of them.

You know, again, you know, I starved with Jeff Ridges and Sally Field and Henry Fonda. Jeff Ridges. You want to answer that? Quickly, what was Charles Bronson like?

Charles had a guy in a system who had a little miniature ticker tape with him. And he could be checking his stock market. [laughter] And he also, he also would tear out dialogue.

You know, and keep it real simple, of course. And, and parse his lines down to smaller, clean lines of dialogue. And also, I watched him and he would reach,

he would practice reaching for a prop. So he didn't have to look at it when he went to get it. And he'd measure it off. And in a way, he moved and rehearsed his physical stuff like a dancer. He wasn't a big, he was compact,

but he moved beautifully, like Lee Marvin moved beautifully. Or Kevin Bacon moves really well and interesting. They were each old John Wayne. Had that great strange grace in the way he moved. And I watched him do that,

like he would measure his grip from coffee cups so that he could just keep talking until he had reached out of frame and bring that coffee cup in. Or some sort of that bottle, you know, and switch hands. And, you know, he just, he was great that way.

He really moved. You see some of his movies, Kato's land. And things like that, and watch him move. It's just just beautiful to watch. We forget, you know, how big Charles Bronson was.

Every culture in the world thought he was one of theirs. [laughter] The Russians thought he was Russians. Paulish thought he was Polish, well, kind of what? You know, Chuck Uslovakins thought he was Chuck Uslovakins,

Spanish thought he was Spanish. Yeah. He's also here that it is a syncratic way about him that kind of cut through everything. I feel like that's a thing about actors

we're missing a little bit now. It's like anybody can impersonate Charles Bronson. Anybody can impersonate Marlon Brando. You know, the voice so indicatively. Well, this is one of the things we've lost.

If you think about Jimmy Stewart's hesitant delivery, or Henry Fonda's Midwestern accent, or Brando, or John Wayne, you recognize them when you heard them. Let alone when you saw them. It was a signature voice.

“And I think that that's something that actors have to realize”

has is part of the component, you know, of an actor. You know, everyone's like either certain actresses that have such beautiful deep husky voices. You just love hearing them speak. It makes them just that much more fascinating,

or sexy, or, you know, you like that. Yeah. They come with a full toolbox, you know, so to speak. And we've lost that a little bit. I think that people probably thought they could compensate

But you can, as long as you're taking your shirt off,

“but then you also have to sound right when you speak.”

That's interesting. It's so important. It's clearly you and Pinocchio and strong. It was great to hear your cursing. I mean, all I tried to do was avoid the Freddy laugh as much as I could,

because the Freddy laugh is an old class exercise from voice class, you know, that I had. And that was my go-to thing, because it's about the breathing on the diaphragm. Yeah. And so my muscle memory, I fall into the Freddy laugh pretty automatically.

Now I have to consciously pitch it higher and breathe less, you know, to get, you know, if I want it, if I'm doing an evil laugh, when I'm doing a voiceover, you know, for animation or something now, I consciously have to pitch it high and bite off the air and turn it more into kind of like a demonic giggle or something.

So I don't.

So I don't remind everybody that they're listening to Freddy Krueger.

Well, you've done many transformative performances. Like, you're, you're a work in the Mangler is great. You're just, like, you're just a peer into that guy. And I love that movie too. And you've like, at this point.

That's the great Toby Huper again, too.

“You know, Stephen King loves Toby Huper.”

Stephen King loves the way Toby treats the Stephen King canon. Yes. There was something about like, so coming back to like the idea of being now like a horror icon, you went through a heaven old act in career. Now you're a horror icon.

You ever just like, oh fuck, I just want to be in a dove commercial, but everyone's so frightening. Everybody's shaking. Yeah. Yeah.

I would love to see how you shall. Well, you know, it's strange now. You know, it's, um, I, I'm going to be doing a sequel to, uh, a wonderful, smart, smart horror film I did call behind the mask the rise of Leslie Vernon. Yes.

And it's one of those films that slowly ascending on the cult market, but it, it still hasn't been seen enough. And I'm really proud of it. And there's a wonderful wonderful performances in that film. Uh, but we had written a sequel for, uh,

figuring Scott Wilson into it. You know, yeah. We were in a really big way and, and God love him Scott passed away. You know, uh, and, uh, and yeah, we lost it right out. Great, great actor that I go way back with.

And, uh, and so he, they had to took him years to figure out another script. Uh, for that. But I'll be in that doing my sort of, uh, homage to Donald Pleasant again. Yeah. Yeah.

And, and I, you know, I'm lucky. I did a lot a lot before I did Freddie. So I was established in Hollywood. And, you know, a lot of Americans haven't seen them. But, you know, I've done nearly a hundred movies and I've done dozens of movies in Europe.

Like, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, on a level of behind the mask. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, last showing is one, uh, you know, for, uh, uh, Phil Hawkins with, with a wonderful actor in it. Finn Jones just does a great performance. And he was the gay knight in Game of Thrones.

Uh-huh. But, uh, yeah. But, yeah. But it's really a good little sort of salute to Brian DePama. Uh, really a macula, great little low budget film.

And I've done a lot of that stuff, you know, in Italy and Spain and England and Russia. And I all over the, so I get to do that. You know, I play the old prince or the old priest or the mad doctor, you know, or, or, or the old psychiatrist, you know. And I tell the back story and I get to play with my skills, you know,

doing a monologue. I even got to do the monologue. Even though I was doing a Robert England makeup role, I got to do a wonderfully written cadence to monologue that really was a great intercut between this actual event and my telling it in Stranger Things.

Yeah. So I get to do that stuff, you know. You also work with complete madman JJ VRD several times. Yeah. I love that guy.

I have done, like, one project with him. I used to work for adult swim extensively. I love JJ. What's it?

“What's his, can you honestly just tell me you give a little small little”

insight of what his processes like? Well, you know, it's so strange because I saw the anime again. I saw the pencil drawings because I played a guy. I played a gob of snot. And I think I played one of the three bears.

I can't remember. Yeah. It's like a Goldilocks fractured fairy tale. And then it was a King Star King, which was great. Yeah.

It was the gross out version. Yeah. It was gross out humor. But it's really off the wall.

And, you know, you get always you get pieces of it when you're talking to him.

And you get, because you want to be on the same page.

You know, and then it all comes together.

It's just one of those things. I mean, you know, you imagine, look, I love sinners. I really love sinners. Yeah. But can you imagine the pitch to that?

Now, you had to help of get out being a big hit. Yeah. Maybe African folk tale, you know, brought into contemporary concepts. So we have a whole new source material we can go after. But imagine trying, you know, even though he was a huge director at the time.

Yeah. Pitching sinners. You know. It's hard. Musicology.

The history of American music. You know, vampires. Slavery. Voodoo. Voodoo.

African myth. Slave myth. All of that. And you're going to make it. And you're going to put it all into any one of those statements could be an entire movie.

But to put them all in one movie and mash them up like that. And have that kind of success when you just went on that ride.

“I remember that that musical number which was like the history of American music and that moving camera.”

You know, and that dancing and all of a sudden you saw one of the guys from the Funkadelics. You know, out of the corner of your eye and you're like, did I see that? Yeah. It was a bridge to hide to blend in in the choreography over here. Later on, you got to close up of it.

But it was like, did I get in my hallucinating? Am I imagining that? Is this dance? And yet it was. It was all intentional and all choreographed, you know, you know, within an inch of its life.

And it was just brilliant stuff. But that's that thing. You know, is when you have ideas that wild and you wonder. Part of it is, you know, it's hard to pitch that stuff. And I think, you know, with, you know, I don't understand how when they, when they describe some stuff, it gets, it gets bought because I wouldn't get it either.

I wouldn't get it either. Yeah. Then there's other stuff. There's other stuff that you, what you see and you watching, you go, I don't know how that got made. You know, the flip side of that.

You know, every day I say this. Every day I scream that into the night. Well, I mean, after you go through your checklist, they made it for money. They made it because it's a sequel. They made it because those are popular characters.

They made it because they thought they needed a rom-com movie released this June. Whatever. You know, you see that.

“But once you've exhausted all those checklist, you go, why did they make that movie, you know?”

Yeah. There's a target audience for that movie. I, you know. Yeah. You've mentioned rom-com's twice.

And I got to say, being a horror icon that you are, I feel like horror is the only prolific genre over time. Like everything comes and goes. Rom-com's are kind of out right now. Regular comedies are coming out right now. But I think we do have, we still have romance films.

Yes. Yes. And we have horror. And we have action films. And it's fun.

You know, it's so much fun to, you know, you, to go on Apple TV or to go on Netflix or to go on Prime Video or somewhere. And then to Deep Dive. And you know, and you find these great little wonderful action movies, you know, that, that, that, with, you know, European stars or low budget.

What's, there's one, I, there's two of them now. Can't think of the name. It's a, it's a, a foreign name, like a finished name. So it's a director from Finland. And there revenge movies.

There are guys. They're themselves on the news. Yes.

The system movies are amazing.

“And that, that guy's up there with George Miller.”

Yeah. The director. Yeah. No, that was a bad one of the stuff. But the second one is almost rogue runner.

It almost devolves into Russian Nazi rogue runner. Yeah. It's great. I mean, I watched it on the edge of my couch. But why aren't people talking about those movies?

I mean, I, you know, I'd love to ask Tarantino. You know, we, if we could go to his little movie theater in Hollywood and have a double Bill of those, you know. Yeah, do you receive her, everybody boarced. Oh, my gosh.

Do you read him? Have you ever seen the film The Last Circus? No. That is it. Two dozen.

Ten. I feel like I cannot believe I'm going to, I'm going to recommend you this movie. The Last Circus. I'm going to look at it. It is.

I got it last circus.

It is a face director's amazing.

He did another movie. He called Wichita in bitch. And that's right on the money. It is amazing. It is a, the only way to describe it.

It is a fascist clowns left behind in the, in the, in the revs Spanish revolution. And they have to save their circus by killing everybody. You have to, you have to look at it. You're with, I will love this.

This is right up your alley. Yes. No. Sounds like it has a little bit of devil's backbone. It does.

It does. It does. It's a little bit. Yeah. Frank, Frank, oh, the regime and all that.

No, recently, I've been a big champion of the guy that did Blue Ruin.

No, phenomenal.

“Green and he also did that one with, for me, the best shootout in the history of”

cinema is in the one with the scar scarred and Riley Kio.

And the last, and the Native American Indigent. They're on the reservation. Yes. They surrender their baby up to the cult. The Native American cult.

You know, I just saw it again. Something dark. Something dark. I think he's. New dark.

It, it hold the dark. It holds the dark. Right. Yes. Hold the dark.

That now, here's the third one you put with that is, Rubble Ridge. And all those three together are like slow burn revenge. But there are sequences in, in, in, in that film that are, that that shootout with, with the highway patrol on the, on the, on the compound, the Native American compound,

where he has the 50 caliber up in the barn. The coverage. The coverage is, is Orson Wells Stanley Kubrick, Sam Peck and Pa. Yeah. It's, you know, Don Seagull.

It's brilliant. I mean, he's got a camera under the wheel of every car there.

“So that you get to watch people die underneath the cars.”

Let alone what's going on up. You know, and, and the, and the, the highway patrol vehicles are slowly deteriorating.

You know, it, in sequence in continuity as it, as it progresses, you know, just amazing.

That is going on my list. Yeah. I love what a fan you are of everything. Yeah. I'm a fan boy.

Yeah. I'm a fan boy. We got a, we're in a problem. We're going to let the man go. We got to let him go to the, he lives like me.

Go, because I got to, I'll, I'll go do a con somewhere. And I'm going to run up and tell Ron Perlman how much I love him. Yeah. You get to attack him. You want to do a boy like everybody else.

Can we do a lightning round with you? Yeah, because I, because you've been a fan boy. I saw this one great interview with a Reeth of Franklin. And they were asking her about other, the, all the other great singers of all time. And she was giving quick reactions to each of them.

And you are the Reeth of Franklin of horror movies in my opinion. More like I'd actually, but I'm going to say the, you're Reeth of Franklin. I'm just trying to have fun. Yeah. I'm going to have to have fun.

I'm sorry. So if you wouldn't mind. I'd love to get you a opinion on other horror icons. Real fast and rapid fire. Would you mind?

“Well, I think, yeah, let, we do, you start doing it.”

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I, I think we got it. I think we have to salute Richard Break. Yeah. Of course.

Richard's becoming a great face like John Carradine. And, and, and I even think there's a bit of Christopher Lee. And he's great in 31. And Richard's, you know, in real life, Richard's tall. And so that, that's a great asset.

I love Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. You know, I can't get enough of Anthony Hopkins, you know, in horror. I have a Dracula, except for Gary Oldman. Real.

Gary Oldman is my Dracula. Oh, the Christopher Lee. No, Gary Oldman is my Dracula. Woo! Because I got, I've got to use mine's eye.

You know, I've got to use mine's eye. And the sense, his sense of period. You know, so I love that. But I got to tell you. And I don't know the name of it.

And maybe it's four or five years old. You're going to go online and figure it out. David Tennant, Doctor Who. Yes, broad church. David Tennant.

I saw him on West and the guy is brilliant. But David Tennant, Dennis serial killer. A change smoking serial killer. Nilsen. Yes.

I can't. I don't know what the name of that. Dennis Nilsen. It is. It is.

Yes. Yes. Yes. It's about this. It's, it's the movie's called Des.

And it's about the series. Yes. It's about the serial killer Dennis Nilsen. Well, he and I'll tell you right now. I love that show mind hunter.

Yeah. There were some performances on mind hunter that blew my mind. But that performance by David Tennant is incredible. And everybody should see it. These are the things that are falling through the cracks.

You know, that we have to get everybody watching. You know, because what happens is they. They see so much hype. And I listen. I'm going to go see Odyssey this afternoon.

I can't wait. 70 millimeter. You have to take it. You have to take it. There's so much hype about other stuff that we get.

We don't. No one's spending money on these little gems. Yeah. Like like des or or to tell us about them or or or the or the hype. Or you know, making or, you know, after dark or whatever that was, you know.

But but we got these movies are great.

I mean, I've never met anybody else except you guys that seem, you know, blue ruin,

which is just a perfect. It's a perfect film. It's a perfect film. Yeah. The slow burn revenge movie.

Oh, my god. And that actor is brilliant.

Yeah.

The guy that played the lead.

I think I'm not sure. But I think all those guys.

“I think they're all from the North Carolina school of performing arts.”

Yes. They're all from it's like same guy. They're all team. And they make one movie a year, you know, but they're really good. You know, why I think Angela Betus, who's in that great movie may.

I think Angela Betus is one of them. You know, in the crowd. They're just really talented talented young people. What about the ultimate horror icon Dick Cheney? Dick Cheney, yes.

Shoot me in the face. Yeah. God, I'd love to see you haunt his dreams.

God, that would be amazing for you to crawl and it was nightmares.

Have you ever haunted your own nightmares? I have, I used to have snake nightmares. And I have, I have the actors nightmare. You know, where I still am worried about my lines for Merchant of Venice or something. Yeah.

Yeah. And I've hidden the script backstage, but I can't find it. I know. Well, honestly, Pinocchio on Strong. It is going to be available for VOD.

Skip the Odyssey. When you can't get tickets to the Odyssey, you don't see Pinocchio on Strong. Honestly, it's a good movie. Get your charge up. Get ready to go.

You're going to love, honestly.

“I think everybody's going to love the puppets in this.”

Yes. I can't believe it's all practical. I want to be in this world for all the hardcore horror fans out there. And I know I have some. Yeah.

Pinocchio. It is Pinocchio. But it's Pinocchio. Unstrung. We deliver the goods.

You'll like it. You'll stop a little. A little summer nasty horror fix. Go check it out. July 24th.

That is the right thing to do. Yeah. It's coming out, man. Come on. Two days.

Yeah.

“It's going to be at the theater in a couple of locations.”

You can check it out here. VOD. Just watch it. It's so much fun. It's really fun.

Turn the lights off. Get up pizza. Yeah. I'm not joking along. I'm not joking.

I've seen basically all of his movies, Reese's movies.

And I think it's the best one. It is the best one. It's definitely. Yeah. No.

You can see him really getting a hold of things here. Yeah. It's pretty awesome. Well, they're fun too. They're fun too.

Yeah. Absolutely. They got to go sand and line you guys. Go get them. Go get them.

Go make your turn. I got to find my shield and my toga. Yeah. Oh, well, just, yeah, it's, you're not wearing pants. What does it matter?

[laughs] My high-heeled sandals.