Make Sleep Suck Less with Dr. Chris Allen

I don't have FOMO, I have FOMO, I have a fear of missing sleep.

The bedroom, and the bed more specifically is only for three things, and they start with the letter S, if you're sick, if you're sleeping. Sandwiches! I don't know what I'd talk about sleep apnea. Why did I just think it was something that old men got? I could have 17-year-old really have sleep apnea?

Yes. Hey everybody, I'm Kim Holderness. And I've been Holderness. Thank you so much for joining us on Lafline's. If you woke up this morning and you high-fived yourself, because you didn't wake up in a mobile night to go to the bathroom,

your home. Be your your people. I do get excited when I make it through the night. And I don't know that I have like an enlarged prostate, but I definitely forget to hydrate during the day so at night I'm like, "Well, I better do it now."

“And I'm not sure that's how you're supposed to do it.”

Well, this kind of fits in with today's podcast because we are on my favorite topic, which is sleep. Yes. And I joke about this, but it is very true. I need like a trunk dart to sleep. That is true. Also true is on your like list of values of things that are important to you in life. Like a great time. That's how you sleep. Happy family relationships. I'm joking.

But sleep is up there. You always joke that you don't have a fear of missing out.

I don't have FOMO. I have FOMO. I have a fear of missing sleep. I get a little anxious if there is a school night event. It was like say eight o'clock. I don't know the last time. I attended an event that started at eight o'clock on a school night. I've been proud of you because we have young people who are friends of ours will be like, "Hey, you want to go to dinner at eight o'clock?" No. You just say no.

I do realize somebody said this is an actual sign of cognitive decline. Like the more you want to stay home. What? Where's that science? Well, I will say this. There is no place that I am the happiest when I'm in my bed. I get in my bed and I open a book and I just think you do. I kind of do a little shit. I'm here. I'm like, "Well, if that's a sign, here we go." I'm just thinking of, look, listen. Everything is a sign of cognitive decline. Now, trust me.

I'm like pretty well-steeped in cognitive decline because both my parents have or had Alzheimer's. If you like like to stay in when you're older and you generally have cognitive decline when

“you're older, that's all they're doing. I think what they're saying is you are foregoing social”

opportunities and that can lead to cognitive decline. Yeah. Okay. But that's like, "Sustaying home at night is different from staying home during the day." You just do a little sundowning at night. He can make the joke, guys. Because he has parents that have sundown. That's right. Okay. Ann Marie or producer came up with a little fun game. We have made several songs.

You do not have answers. Is this why you gave me an Epstein file? It was basically redacted.

Sam were to act at your outline. For those of you not on YouTube, my script has a bunch of Sharpie pens through it so I can't read it. I don't know what's going on. We have produced several songs about sleep at Penn. There are five popular ones listed here. Can you name them? Sorry that we've produced? That we produce like parodies. Yeah. Mom's got farms? Yes. That's an original. You know who has that? I have zero recollection. Is the words "sleep" in any of them?

Yes. What rhymes with "sleep"? This is fun. To help you out, I'm going to give you the original artist Adele. We did Jello instead of hello. We did "frying in the deep" for a turkey by Adele.

“We did another Adele song. Pillows on the other side. I don't remember that. I never did that song.”

That is made up. Should we put the clip in? Oh my god. Wow. Complete black out. I don't remember it in this. That was a full production. That was a full production. Okay. Next one. It's a Hamilton parody and it's been more recent. Oh, you'll need naps. You'll need naps. That's it. I guess that is about sleep. You'll need naps. You will see. You will have a lot less energy. This is an erasure parody. Oh. Oh baby, please give a little more time. Now try to discover.

And then a bill. I am sleeping by yourself. Yes. That was where we talked about how you get really excited when I'm not in the bed with you. Yes. Yeah, that's a good one.

Okay. We have an amazing doctor on the show today. Before we get to him, let's go to the

last line. Hi, this is Karen from Canada. I'm a 44 year old bond with ADHD and I have a 13 year old time with ADHD as well. And we both love music as do you guys. And I'm wondering if you know or if you can ask an expert sometime on your podcast. If listening to music while you are working or studying is actually effective, especially for ADHD. My OCD is taken a hold. And so I'm like need deep and research on ADHD. And it is for some folks with ADHD, some folks to have background music,

“study, music on. It is helpful. That's why they actually recommend like my daughter for example,”

studies better in a busy coffee shop. She needs that sort of background noise. Karen, this is not a private satisfactory answer, but every ADHD is different. It's not because it's like a snowflake. Everything you said is right. But here's the simplest way I think to describe it. If the music is truly seen as a background that drowns out other things that might be bothering them, then that's good. If you're a musician like me and you start parsing out patterns and

listening to chords and it takes you away from that, then it's not. Okay, our next is Claire from North Carolina. Hi, I name his Claire and I live in Cary, North Carolina. And I have a question about ADHD and sleep disorders. How can we get my team's son to wake up timely on his own?

“And consistently, he sleeps so deeply that three alarms set three 30 minutes apart”

and across the bedroom do not wake him. That is a very good question. We're going to ask her doctor, but may I share what I just learned in therapy today? Yes. The ADHD brain does best when there's like two sleep cycles. So going to bed late and then there is a natural wake up and then sleep and then sleeping later. And there's a book I have to buy and read and it's called like like the hunter and a farmer's world or something because think about it like the hunter

gathers had to be like very alert and those were like the ADHD people. It'd be very alert but then when they could rest they could rest and the farmer had to be like up early. Let's ask that question to our doctor. It's making me think like, okay, so the fact that I do have to get up and pee it to AM every evening might be working out for me. So that's two sleep cycles. Yeah,

we are going to ask that question to our doctor, Alan, Dr. Christopher Allen. But first, I

wanted to thank everybody a few podcasts ago. I kind of came clean and talked about my official ADHD diagnosis that happened in September of last year. It's just taken me a while to sort of process what that meant and you all sent such lovely words of encouragement 99% of you did and I really, I deeply grateful for those and I'm trying to work through those right now. I'm deleting the ones that say that it's not ADHD and that it's just because I ate too much sugar. So I'm deleting

that. Why it's that's so harmful to people. Like if they if they are reluctant, they have a diagnosis we can talk about this in another time. No, no, you can talk about it now. I mean, this I've been

“feeling what you're feeling for 20 years. I think as someone who actually has it now, I bet it”

feels different hearing that now because I've been hearing that for a long time. Oh, I can't tell you something else. My therapist said today. I had a good therapy session, you guys. I told her how

deflating and hurtful it felt when actual therapists who don't know me and I've never done

screenings with me and only see what they see on. They're like, "No, I'm pretty sure you just have anxiety in OCD." Which is not wrong. I probably have those, but they were claiming like, "Oh, no, you don't fit this ADHD profile." And my therapist responded with, "Do they think there's only a certain number of ADHD tickets they hand out?" Like their kid can't get an ADHD ticket if you have one. That is a perfect way to describe it. And honestly, even myself, like not wanting to dilute

the diagnosis, that's what it is. Like I don't want other people to not get the the resources they need

guys. We've been getting these comments for about 10 years since we've been putting out ADHD content. Like it's not real. Like this isn't a thing. Does it feel different reading that now that you're

a part of the club? I was always deeply offended by that because I see it up close in real time.

But listen, I, there are mental health disorders that I, you know, people in my life, I could look back now and say, "Oh, that friend who I loved so dearly was probably on my autism spectrum." So like, there are looking back, there's names for what we were like, "Oh, he's just a little weird." You know, like, we would, he just collects airplanes. He collects

“a lot of airplanes, but that's his thing, you know? I, I, I would love it if just we, honestly,”

we've been looking for a way to rename ADHD. It's a little weird. It's a little weird, but that, I mean, that's my grandparents would be like, "Oh, of course we, it's honestly it's more accurate than the crappy name it is now. Spell it L-I-L-W-E-E-E-R-D. Little weird." Okay, should we get to

our amazing guests? Sure. Dr. Christopher Allen is a double-board certified physician in

sleep medicine and pediatric neurology. With 20 years in the medical field, he specializes in diagnosing and treating sleep disorders such as sleep apnea, insomnia, and restless leg syndrome. After struggling, with undiagnosed sleep issues as a child, he was diagnosed during his medical residency, and that experienced transformed his health and shaped his calling. Today, Dr. Chris serves as the founder of Quality Sleep in Neurology. He educates a broad social

media audience and partners with organizations to elevate sleep health awareness. He's also the author of Sweet Dreams, which is a children's book inspired by his journey that helps families understand healthy sleep habits with warmth and hope. Welcome to the show Sleep Dr. Chris. Hey, guys, like, first of all, thank you for having me. Love the hair. Love the hair. I'm glad that I'm here. We're glad that you're here. So, I wonder if sometimes when you talk to people about sleep,

if it ends up becoming a little bit of a relationship conversation as well. Oh, all the time. It's funny. There's two things. When I talk about sleep, I kind of feel like a priest because it helps me to calm up because I'm a sleep doctor. They just start talking about their sleep. I get it all the details. And then if funny when you talk about relationships, it goes into that because not only will we talk about dare sleep. We talk about their bed

partners sleep all the time. And it's funny in my office, I always tell people the first two words

I hear the most in my practice is my wife or my spouse, my girlfriend. It's like, well, my wife says I snore. And so I hear all of that. Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you're here and listen, we try to make sure this podcast is entertaining and brings useful information to our audience. But secretly, it's therapy for me. Okay? So, whatever it charges by the hour. Yeah, it's we're just writing it on. So, I know a lot of our audience is arrayed. There are age. In our 20s, we could have slept,

you know, like on a concrete slab, right? And just woke it up, just like purely refreshed. Now, I mean, there's a lot going on with Perry menopause and all this stuff. What happened? Why can I even

“be able to sleep in two decades? Honestly, when you're younger and you're 20s, but your body's”

pretty much a sleep machine. Like your hormones are stable, your stress is lower, or whatever you think stress is. It's not the stress that you get and your lady hairs are in your 40s and you're circadian rhythm is strong. Honestly, the older you get up, like the architecture of your sleep, it's changing. Like, you know, everyone, one thing I love, they have like these like, you know, wearable devices or rings to tell you how you sleep. And honestly, they're really good, but it makes you start that

conversation. And that architecture of your sleep is changing. Like, your deep sleep is slowly declining with age. Now, just because of declining, you still get to the same percentage, wise, but it's a small difference. And then your nervous system becomes more reactive.

“So that's what's happening now compared to then. And like you said, you could just sleep on a”

concrete or be okay. But now you have to be intentional with your sleep now. Yeah. Every time someone says circadian rhythm, my nod, my head, like, oh, yes, circadian rhythm, yeah. I don't know what that is. I don't know what it is. And I'm glad I'm glad you mentioned that because honestly,

The process C is circadian rhythm, which we'll get into. But there's a process S. And that S is

like sleep dry. It's like you're hunger for sleep. So pretty much, when you stay up later, your body gets hungry for sleep. So if you don't go to bed, you're like, I need to go to bed. I need to go to bed. I need to go to bed now. It's kind of like, you know, being angry, but seriously. And so that's your process S. And this is when you put my nerve tap hat on. There's something that's called a denocene. And it's something you build in your body.

And then it's higher and higher and higher. And that's your body saying, like, look, I need to go to sleep. And sometimes we have this drink that we drink sometimes in the morning

“or in the evening or late night, if you want to stay up, that blocks the denocene,”

which is known as caffeine. So that's how caffeine works. It blocks that. But the thing is, it just blocks it, but as soon as it wears off, that rush comes back in your tired. And so that's that blood process. It's called like process S. Then the other one is process C, where it's that circadian rhythm. And pretty much it's just your sleep rhythm in your body cock. So when you go to bed and when you wake up, it that's what dictates it. That circadian rhythm. And it's based

off of something that's called it. I'm going to say this word, and everyone knows the word, but they don't know how to work sometime. Molotone. You're going to say, yeah, I tried that. And honestly, this is my public service announcement on Molotone. Molotone. Like, it didn't work. But a lot of people take the wrong dose at the wrong time, which is not in rhythm. Yeah. Exactly. And what Molotone does, it's not a sedative. It's a signal. And there's a signal in your body.

You already make Molotone. And it tells your body, like, hey, it's time to go to bed. And so what happens is when your body, Molotone, and he gets to a certain level, it tells your body, like, all right, we need to go to bed. And then once it goes to bed, it starts to go down, go down, go down and you wake up, and that Molotone in levels of love. Then it bumps up a little bit, like around lunch. So after lunch, and you're tired, that's the reason why. Yeah.

Then it goes down and it goes back up. So when you're circuiting in rhythm, they're talking about that body clock that's happening. So now anytime you're circuiting rhythm, it's like body clock. Yeah, let's put it. Got it. Thank you. Okay. You mentioned Molotone. And I was going to save my supplement list, until the end of the show for Rapid Fire,

but let's talk about it now. Big list. It's a big list. But first question, should we be

taking Molotone and I've heard some arguments that we shouldn't? More on this after these words. Molotone is a signal, not a solution. So if you're reaching towards Molotone,

“that's the time where you need to talk to your provider or find a sleep doctor like me.”

And because a lot of people's like, oh, it can just take this and it infects it right then and there. And so this funny, I have a real about like grading Molotone and zero out of like, you know, 1 to 10 and I gave it a zero. And I gave it a zero when you'd use it by yourself, because you're trying to take it and now look at the problem, he says unfortunately, people take the wrong dose at the wrong time. Even on the bottle says, take it half an hour before

you know, go to bed. But honestly, it takes up to one mostly two hours. So I have my patients

say two hours before bedtime. And the dosage, you don't have to go higher than like one million

that and sometimes you can go up the five. But if you look at the bottles, they're like 10, 10, yeah. Yes. And so people, and I've had patients where they'll take it and they're like, yeah, just can go to sleep. So I took them in middle of the night. And if you remember my little description of the melatonin, if you had the cider, you're probably going to sleep. That melatonin should be getting little. So if you take it, it bumps up. And so guess what it does? It just makes

“your sleep worse. And so that's why so people can take it with the proper guidance. That will be”

my answer. I have been a fighter of sleep, my entire life. I joke about being able to sleep on concrete when I was 20, not true. Like even my mom wrote in my baby book when it was like five, like, Kim's a sleep fighter. So I come at it honest. So this is what I did see just primary care physician. And I did get a prescription, but long-term uses been showed to like lead to cognitive declines. So I'm trying not to take it every day. But I would take all the ones. Mac, melatonin,

magnesium, elphenene, and five, HTP, and like this one thing called in citol or something like that. And a sleep doctor, Chris, I'll sleep for about four hours, and then I'm wide awake.

said, I've heard before. And there's our, you know, there's supplements that help people,

you know, guide them into falling asleep. But then my goal is that I always tell people,

my goal is for you to go to bed and wake up and feel refreshed. And make sure that you have the recommended amount of sleep for your age. And if you're 18 and up, that's anywhere from seven to nine hours. Now I pause when I say that, because every time I say that, everyone thinks books so it's like, oh no, I'm not getting seven hours like or I'm only good. I'm like, I just need

“a good five hours. But there's a reason why you have to do that. It's like your phone. If you”

went to bed and you put your phone and you plugged it in and you woke up and you saw your phone was only at like 40%. You're going to be pretty upset. You're like, what's going on? What happened? Like, where's my charge? I need to take it with me. But unfortunately, there are people that

will wake up and their bodies at 40% is like, all right, let me get through the day. And so I want

people to treat their sleep like they treat their phone. And if you're having problems getting to sleep or staying up, they're the nervous system that plays a role with it as well. But then you also have to look at your sleep, because the hardest part about my job is that I got to talk to people about sleep and what happens to them when they're unconscious. So this is where your bed partner comes and it's to play. Because, you know, if you wake up in the morning and you feel alert

and you got the recommended amount of sleep, great. But if you're, if you're not, then that's when you talk to your bed partner. And sometimes it's a simple question of, do I snore? Or like, what am I doing in my sleep? So if you're flipping around, like a, you know, fish out of water, or you're punching and finding your sleep, or you're snoring, or having pausing and breathing, you want to look for those things. Because fixing that can't extend it. So when you say it,

I'm like, "Broken? No, you're not broken. Just have to figure out what's happening." All right. So what if your partner, who you love, has built a fort of great size and volume

“between the two of you and observing her at night is impossible without a periscope?”

I just, I mean, I like, I enjoy pillows. Sleep doctors. Yeah. And I will say I toss and turn, but I'm awake when I'm tossing and turning. Okay. Well, you don't know that. Maybe you use toss when you're, like, I feel like we need to film each other. Hey, you know what? No, just when you're here. Okay. So what point is it like, "Well, I'm just a terrible sleeper and at what point do you see a sleep doctor?" So it goes back to what I'm saying. So if you're not getting the

recommend at a moment of sleep, or you're getting the recommend at a moment of sleep, and you're still not feel rested, that's when you can get a sleep doctor involved. You can even start with your primary and provide to say, "Hey, what's going on?" And then you have their recommendations, and if you're still filming it, you know, get a sleep doctor involved because so many times, I, one of the many things that I hear patients say in another one of them will say, "Well,

I sleep fine." And when we do a sleep study or do the further evaluation, we found out that there's

“some problems that are going on. So here's the thing about the bed. It's only for three things,”

and they start with the letter S. If you're sick, if you're sleeping, Sandwiches. No,

you didn't go in there. Yes, I know what the third one is. And so if none of those three things

are happening, then you are not in bed. And so if you are up, and you feel like you can't get back in bed, one of the things you can't do, you can't force yourself to go to sleep. So if it takes you more than 20 minutes, I just tell people, "Get out of bed." And honestly, if it's a horrible night, we can confat at night a loss, but it doesn't mean that you're a failure. It just means that, look, this night thing goes away, you should. And then you observe that next night. And so if

it takes you more than so, say for example, it's four o'clock in the morning. And you're laying down way to four to 20. And mind you, I said the bed's only for three things. Yeah, so I said, television, I didn't say phone. And so you've got to put your, you have to make it boring when you're in the middle of the night. So you've got out of bed, once you get out of bed, sit down, breathe. There's a lot of people that feel like their mind is racing, wherever those alarms are going,

going, going, that what you can do with that, get a piece of paper, get a pen, and write down what you're thinking. And it can be journaling, which is helpful. You can just put it down words, tire, children, husband, whatever it is. Yeah. What did it up? Could it under your pillow, and that's telling my, like, look, we're thinking about this, but we're saving it for another time. I'm going to try that. Yeah, because, all right, we're like the three asses for us are streaming,

scrolling, and sandwiched sandwiches. So we both do this, she'll go up, just come and go up at eight

I never thought that was a problem. You're saying it might be, and I do some of the same stuff.

You're saying it might be smart for us to do those two things at a different location, even if it's like the chair next to your bed, so that that, like, that bed equals "cockout" when you get there. Exactly. Okay. Because the thing is, is that at a point, and it goes back to like one of your 20s. Like, yeah, your body, look, you didn't have any stress. You could look at, you know, I was, I would say social media, about 20 years ago, you know,

social media was different from where we were, you know, we didn't have my space on our phone. But, but now people can go through that because it's not a problem then, but the older you get in order to stress that they're in and your nervous system is very sensitive.

“You do those things. They're not going to help you go to bed. And so that's why, like, you have to keep”

that bed sacred. And so, can you be on TikTok? Sure, but I would say be at it in a slower time before

bed, because, you know, TikTok or any other social media, that leads to doing strong. And, you know, and then now you're just wrapped up to get ready to go to bed. And of course, there's nothing in news that's going to rip you up right now. So, like, Lord, we've touched, we've touched an earth here and it's good, right? In the intro to this podcast, I talked about how my bed is like my favorite place in the world. Like, I love, I get in my bed

and I kind of do this little wiggle. And because I read a lot, so I will read for more than an hour and bed at night. But, so I'm so, I'm going to have, that's a huge habit change. I'm going to like to do it because I need to sleep. It's almost your birthday. What if I got you, like, the dopest, like, devan or, like, one of those, like, loungy chairs that's, like, right next, that you could be excited about this. Like, she's lounging? She's, that's the word I'm looking for. I don't know what

anything is. But, like, one of, like, one of those, that became your transitional area, will give you, like, something that's, like, comfy, that you can use over there. Okay, right? Now, should I be out of the room sleeping, or just not in the bed? Not in the bed. And less than, so, well, it's just the bed. You can be in the bedroom. And, and for people that are listening, you're probably like, well, I love the reading. And, and one thing I will say, if you're not having any problems,

then I'm not having any problems. But, no, if you start to have those problems, or it can start to pre-apop. But, if you're waking up in the middle of the night, because, you know, there are factors in her mind. We talked about circadian rhythm. There's also cortisol. Those are stress hormones. So, if you're in stressful situations, or you're very sensitive to stress. And, that can play a role in the middle of the night, because it's like your emotional check-in, right, then. And,

normally, you're going to wake up anyway. But, our body can go right back to sleep. But, if

“there's heightened stress, that makes it harder to go a bit. So, that's why we have to make sure”

that bed is sacred. And, so, reading is great. Like, honestly, there's time where I'm just sitting at the foot of my bed, and just doing things from there. And, so, it's comfy here. Nice, sir. But, yeah, you can, like, you know, do that. And, I'm not trying to take away because reading, that is a great one-down time. TikTok. I would say it's a little bit lighter than just the right before bed. Because, looking at that screen, it's kind of like taking, like, espresso right before

bed. And, it's not going to do that. Because, it's going to keep you up. I have to frame it like that, because I was really good about putting my phone across the room. But, then, my daughter went to college. And, like, I just feel like I want to have my phone close to me at all times, just in case, she calls, and that kind of, yeah. You know, and having it in your room, that is okay,

because here's the thing. There are phones that are smart enough where you can turn off notifications.

I'll say I have certain people to call. And, so, you can set it up to the way if your daughter calls, or have something, you can do that. And, it can still be in the room, just have it away.

“Because, unfortunately, like, we're trained when you wake up, what's the first thing you grab?”

Ah, you're grabbing your phone. And, we have to get away from that. And, just try for a week. Have it away from your bed against the wall somewhere else. And, you know, like, wow, I'm not like reaching for her. And, you're like, you're actually waking up. Because, what affects your night, affects your daytime, but also insects, your daytime, sunlight is your friend. So, get out of the bed, open that window, get that sunlight.

That sunlight keeps that melatonin down. And, you get into that rhythm of the night. And, so, that can help. And, if there's still problems, you know, and, like, I've got four words for you. You know, "Look, I." Yeah, here you go. Let's move on to something else. Everybody I know, having trouble sleeping. Take a study. Got a CPAP. Now, I look like Darth Vader when I'm sleeping. You know, like, CPAPs, yay, or nay, are they, are they, is it the wonder solution to everything?

I'll phrase the question a little bit different. Does it work? Definitely. And, for obstructive sleep at, you know, there's two things I want to talk to you about

or people have commercials, where they're like, "Don't use your CPAP, use this instead!"

obstructive sleep at, you know, when you fall asleep, all the muscles in your body relax. You're like, "Sure, arms, muscles in the back, you're the rope." So, if that's your mouth and it's the back, you're the rope, and when you're awake, airways open and airs going in and out, no problem. You fall asleep, muscles relax, and right in the back, you get small.

“So when you're sleeping and breathing in, I don't know. That's how snoring happens.”

Then it relaxes some more than all of a sudden airways closed. So, you know, oxygen is going to your heart, your lungs, or your brain. And they don't know what's happening back there. So, your heart's working harder, lungs are breathing in deeper, and your brains and express signals all over your body than all of a sudden, you wake up. Well, not you, you're body. Sometimes you, you fall back asleep and have his old work and over and over again.

That's obstructive sleep at, you know. Now, I tell my patients this, there are many ways to treat obstructive sleep at, you know, CPAP is one of them, and does CPAP work? Yes. And I want to sound like a cheesy commercial, but I don't even say it anyway, not only my doctor, I've been obstructously backing it. I've been treated for like over 21 years, and CPAP

stands for a continuous positive airway pressure. And that last word, some most important part,

pressure. You're wearing a mask and it provides that pressure. They keep your airway open. It doesn't matter if muscles are relaxing, air is going in and out of no problem. And the thing is, is that that works. And so when people use it, and they say the whole diaphragm mass, and I've been using it, like I said, for over 20 years, I've heard everything. There are over 200 different types of mass. So there's when the coverage of nose and mouth,

it might just cover your nose or to go right under your nostrils, or under your nostrils, and your mouth. So there's so many combinations. So if that one mass didn't work, then there's so many different ways. It's funny. One of my female patients told me,

"Finding the right mass is kind of like growth in it." Okay. I don't know what that means.

I figured, like, hey, you find the best one, then you got a winner. And the cool thing

“is that CPAP's not the only option. So does it work? Yes. Are there other ways to treat it?”

Definitely. And it just depends on your severity of what it is to have that. And that's one thing I love about being in social media, because I get to put that out there, because a lot of people know about CPAP, but not what about other ways to treat it. What are the some of the other ways? So again, it depends on severity. So you can have, so if you're mild to moderate, of course, a mild matter of severe CPAP therapy. There's a mouth piece that you can put in your mouth.

This is called a mandibular bansment device. There's a fence-way saying the mouth piece that moves your jaw forward while you're sleeping, the hole in the airway. So that's one way to do it. There's a mild functional therapy where you train your muscles to get stronger, to open up your airway, depending on severity. That's on the way to do that as well. There's also surgery that can open up your airway. There's been some more bans where we really don't do it that much anymore.

They literally would move your jaw forward to open up your airway. That's it. It's been done before in the past. It sounds better. There's another thing to do now. There's also there's operation. There is a procedure. You can do where it connects to a nerve that moves your tongue forward to open up your airway. They call that a hypoclassical nerve stimulator. Then there's even medication that can promote weight loss that will get rid of your extractively patented you too.

“So there's so many different ways. So that's why I love seeing patients because I'm like,”

well, find a way that works for you. My job is for them not to use CPAP therapy. My job is to make sure this CPAP is treated and that they have good quality sleep. Okay. Switching gears here, you're talking to some ADHD people. Do you have evidence that people with neurodiversity specifically ADHD have sleep more sleep troubles than others? I most definitely do and that holds a special place in my heart as well. My son here at ADHD because his father, where he's truly

also have ADHD. Yes, and the thing is that with neurodiversity, the way that your cortisol work and the way that your melatonin work can be a slight difference and where you have to be more intentional on how you sleep. I've literally had a webinar that talks about neurodiversity and sleep for children and for adults as well where you have to be more intentional on prioritizing your sleep. Making sure that things are going to set pattern to help you guide through self to go to bed.

So for example, this is for everybody but more important for people that are neurodivergent. When you're going to bed, it's kind of like a plane and when a plane is landing, how does the plane

start when you get into the bedroom. It starts like two hours before where you start a process,

where you're starting to decrease that screen time. When you start to get into a routine that starts to get strategic and blind, where you're getting to go to bed and that's relaxing. And making sure that your environment, where you're going to sleep promotes sleep. But if you look at this the way that you sleep and I'm talking to myself too, if your side of your bed is messy, this is a chance that your sleep might be messy too. You know, our truths on sleep, Dr. Chris on

line and that's one of my lines is like how your bed looks and how you're going to sleep. And that's

“our truth and it is. So that's one way that you have to play a role in it. And if you think”

if you coat a bed and you just a plane and you just collapse, they literally call that crashing.

So you want to make sure that you're gliding down because you have a heightened propensity to get into stress. So that's watching the like the court is all you want to make sure that eating is like a little bit away from bedtime. Making sure that the routine is straight from there. And that's the shameless plug. And so, you know, if you look up sleep, Dr. Chris, I have literally a webinar that talks about it. It goes into those specifics. Because it's not about fixing your sleep. It's

about giving yourself grace that like it might not be perfect. But you haven't lost anything and you go into the next night knowing that sleep can be better. Okay. We got a caller who called in and

“she has an ADHD son. He's a teenager. And he is struggling with sleep in that. In the morning,”

there are three alarms that she said across the room at half hour increments. And he he is so zoned out

that he cannot he doesn't hear them. And he advice for this family. Yeah. And so it's funny because I literally just put out a video about like when your child has a diagnosis of ADHD. There are 30% of people that have ADHD that can have a sleep disorder like obstructive sleep apnea. And so before I start going towards medication because I'm also a pediatric neurologist as well. And being a pediatric neurologist makes me a better sleep doctor. Being a sleep doctor makes me

a better neurologist. And I see adults and kids for sleep seeing them when they are diagnosed with ADHD. The symptoms of obstructive sleep apnea and children is hyperactivity, inattention, mood. And so they and sometimes sleepiness. So that's not even the top one. So I've had many patients that came in thinking that they had ADHD. And they actually had obstructive sleep apnea. So if this family is having this person that their child plants, it's hard for them to wake up.

“My question to them, how did they sleep? Are they snoring? Do they sleep with their mouth open?”

And now saying that does that mean like all these people have ADHD? No, they actually have obstructive sleep apnea. Doesn't necessarily mean that. But it means that they should get their sleep checked because even if they don't have obstructive sleep apnea, you get that rolled out. And if they do, treating that can stop those symptoms. And if it doesn't, it can still help facilitate treating ADHD as well. And so my neurodivergent, you know, click that I have in my clinic,

I'm sure that when they are sleeping well and they get better sleep, they get better outcomes treating their ADHD, treating their autism, treating those neurodivergent disorders that you have. I don't know a ton about sleep apnea. Why did I just think it was something that old men got? I could have 17 year old really have sleep apnea. Yes. And so I'm trained for sleep medicine. And there's so many sleep disorders, but with obstructive sleep apnea, you can get it at birth to death.

And so I see patients of all ages. And the thing that's different is for obstructive sleep apnea. And we talked about it is different than it is in kids and adult small kids, small airway. So there's things that are obstructing it. Sometimes they're tonsils and they're adenoids that you can't see unless you had a little tube, with a camera that goes all the way down their nose to look at it, you remove that that opens up their airway. Or if they get older,

their airway opens up more. So sleep apnea happens in children, adolescents, teenagers, adults, and even elderly. More on this after these works. All right, sleep doctor Chris, are you ready for the lightning round?

soapbox. Listen, you're on TikTok. We're on TikTok. There's a lot of sleep advice on TikTok.

And we need guidance. You know what I mean? All right. So I'm going to start with the Kim Kardashian, like huge headband that goes around your chin. Have you seen that? It's like a chin strapped thing.

“It looks like a torture device. What do you think of that?”

Um, see a sleep doctor. Okay. Good. I know this funny because some of these some of my answers just might be that simple. Yeah, see a sleep doctor. What? I'm guessing melatonin. See a sleep doctor. Yeah, see a sleep doctor. If we're on those wrong time. Uh, magnesium can be good for less can be helpful. Check your iron. Oh, okay. Check your iron. You've been told I have been.

Okay. Yeah. My iron's always very low. I'm always on supplements for it. Okay.

Tart cherry juice like that. I've heard that recently. Tart cherry juice can be delicious and have melatonin doesn't hurt if you try it. Okay. Let us water. Good for soup. Okay. Um, mouth tape. Okay. Here you go. See some of this. Okay. mouth tape. Um, and short.

“That's when you need to see a sleep doctor. It can be dangerous. So my question is why are you using”

mouth tape? So if someone is snoring, that means that their airway is closing. Airway closing oxygen going down. So if you close your mouth, it has nothing to do with your mouth and everything can do with your muscles. So that can play a role. Now there are instances where it can be helpful, but that is such a small percentage where people, the most common people that use it, they are not looking at their sleep to see if they have a sleep disorder. And that's a hard part about

it. I think a lot of people being dangerous. Yeah. I think a lot of people on TikTok are using mouth tape because they want this snatch jaw line. And they think that they're sleeping with their mouth open and it's making them in one of your please for me to try and mouth tape was you saying that I might have a snatched it or jaw line. Yeah, I might make your jaw line more snatched. Well, with that, your body's smart. If your body's opening it's mouth when you're sleeping,

it's telling you something's going on. And I have to open my mouth. Your body's trying to tell you something. And so then short listen to it. Yeah. And that's part part because

“my thing is you want to lose, if you want to use my mouth tape, do a sleep study first. And if it's fine,”

then go get a jaw line. Yes. Yes, yes, weighted blankets, comforting, helpful. Good for people with restless leg syndrome, white noise machines, comforting if it's not a problem for you.

Okay. Good way to wind out. Total blackout curtains, dark caves, essential for sleep. Yes,

especially when at night shift workers. Okay. Beautiful. I would tell people you want the bit to be three things like the bedroom. You want it to be quiet, dark and cool. If that's the facility, getting good rest. Now, if you're still getting great sleep and it's not those three things, great. But if you're not think about that, and you want your room temperature, and this is where the fights begin anywhere, like 65 to 67 degrees. Let's go. Oh my gosh. I'm sorry. That was just basically

that was like a two-point wrestling take down for me, unfortunately. But I'm like, because she likes it really, really warm. And I am a 65 to 67. I don't like it warm. I can't sleep when it's warm, but I grew up in Florida. I actually like to sweat. And so I don't like the hot, I don't get hot flashes, but I'll do get some night sweats. And I actually, like, that's fun, but I kind of like it. So I think my ideal temperature is like 72. That's that's five to seven degrees above. Anyone that's

listening, if you're sleeping well, and it's that 72, that's great. But if there's problem, especially when you're getting in the age where people are thinking about pairing them in the positive, like, oh no, I can't sleep. Cut that, cut it down, and you'll be amazed, even though, like, even though it's cool, then warm yourself up, because that cool temperature will definitely still. And it does, it does a trick that a lot of people, like, warm try, and will be amazed

of how it helps. I mean, we listen, you and I, we love each other. We have done like hours, our temperature delta, I think, is five or six degrees. It's pretty significant. You like 71, 72. I like what he just mentioned, but we've like, you've gotten more blankets on your side. You've worked on that. If it's a little warm for me at my air condition, I take my foot and I drag it out. So I got a little extra body part that's just exposed to the elements, and that helps out. So,

would you advise people sleeping in separate rooms? When you have to prioritize your self-

getting quality sleep, and for people that don't know, they call that the sleep divorce, yeah, where you move a different room. And sometimes it's helpful for people, but what I usually do, you know, I'm a big proponent of people, like, still sharing the same room. So I'm like, well, why are you leaving? It's like, oh, well, my husband snores, or my wife is snoring terribly. I was like, well, bring him in. Let's see if we can work that out. And whatever problem that they can

“fix, if they fix it, then you can stay in a bit together. But if that is a problem, then you have to have,”

like, that bond, not broken, where you might have to get your own sleep by yourself. And so, if it's given to the point where you just can't sleep better, and you notice that you sleep better without that person, then sleep by yourself. But talk to your bed partner to say, like, look, there's some things that you might have to get fixed. And once they get it fixed, then I usually see those, like, bed partners get back and build with each other. Yeah,

all the time. We're like, we're not getting a sleep divorce, but we're fooling around. We are fooling around. I mean, we have, we have some like rules. So Kim has a curfew. If I have a wife now, it's very understandable. If I come in before 10 o'clock, like, we're good. After 10 o'clock, like, she's like, she, if I wake her up and startle her, I understand that. Like, that's tough. So I just go to the, I go to the guest room. No problem.

Sometimes, like, if I come in at 9 o'clock and you're already out, like, I'll sneak in and we'll try to make a workout. But we've, like, we've tried to work this out. There are just, there are times when, um, either one of us didn't feel in well. I feel like we haven't slept. Usually, like, when there's been two or three days of bad sleep, we just say, yeah, let's, let's split up. I see a lot of spouses all the time. And the fun part is, is that usually when I, when I see a patient,

I always talk about their bed partner in a healthy sleep. Because I had a woman that came in,

she had it. She thought she hadn't summoned me up, but then I figured out, like, wait a second, you're saying to yourself, like, just your husband's son on a lot. So let's bring him in. Then I got him treated, and then, long before, she's sleeping a lot better. And so it's possible. Uh, sleep doctor Chris, anything else that, uh, you've given us such great information. Anything else you think our listeners could benefit from. Part of all sleep is that people, the first thing

“people will sacrifice is their sleep. And so you have to be intent for especially when you get older.”

But more important, literally, if you're listening, talk to your bed partner. It just asks them, like, how do I sleep? Because it'll be surprised. Thank you. Where can people find you and find more information on what you're doing? I try to make it easy for everyone. So if you put in a sleep doctor Chris, so sleep, DR Chris, you'll find me on TikTok, you'll find me on Instagram, Facebook, or you can just go to sleep doctor Chris.com. And a shameless plug out there,

because I'm a big proponent of kids getting treated. I have the children's book. It's called Sweet Dreams. Because I say that a lot on my page. So, um, it's my personal story about how I got abstract the sleep at me and it's a tool for parents on what to look out for for their children. I love it. Um, thank you so much. And this is great information. And tonight, if I can't sleep, I'm just going to be, didn't then that share like a weirdo in our room. We're going to do that.

Look, we're going to do the wind down thing. We're going to sleep study. And we'll check him. Like let's check him. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay. I am going to get out of bed when I can't sleep. I'm not going to read and bed. And you're not going to get in bed until you're ready to go to sleep. That's an interesting one. Yes. And yeah, I feel like I can do it. Yes, but you really do enjoy that. It is my favorite thing that get in bed and read, but maybe if I,

you know, we should do build a cozy library type room. Okay. And it's just like a book nook. And I can get in. Yeah. There's like a little bed there, but it's not my sleeping bed. Right. Or just like get you some new furniture in the bedroom that you can sit on. Just a small shopping. How did you feel about the 65 to 67 degree temperature optimization thing? That was I am even lower than I thought he was going to say. I am very much an outlier and sleep

temperature. I have not, I've yet to meet somebody besides my dad. I want to go visit him over the summer and he keeps it like at 78. I think it's a genetic thing in your family. Well, I think that it was like a cost we lived in Florida. So you're in, you're doing like AC year round and it

“gets very expensive. So like we just didn't turn on the AC. And that's how you got used to it.”

And that's how and that just became like how I slept. Yeah. Where'd you? Yeah. So I listen. I've

needle with the idea of getting a sleep study for a while, but I just have always imagined it

on me. They definitely put tubes up your butt for it. Yeah. We're going to look into it and

“we're going to crank the air condition up. So it's 65 degrees tonight and joking. We're never”

going to do that. We're going to find a way to soldier through. Yeah. You know what? I was trying

not to make it like a doctor's appointment for me, but I probably, I am curious. How do you think

so many people are going through what you're going through there now? Because like menopause causes

“all of these issues. Like for so long, I've taken so many like supplements or medication. Have I”

created some sort of like drug resistant insomnia? Like I take so much that I gave it to a friend who was having trouble sleeping and they said it put them into an actual coma. Like they she was like you could have operated on me and she's up for 12 hours so she needed sleep so it was good.

“But like a normal and normal person and I still don't get a good night's sleep on that. Yeah.”

So that could be true. It also could be like some of the environmental things that sleep Dr. Chris just talked about. Like we're armed with so much more information than we had when we started this this hour. So I'm happy. Well, thank you for joining us friends. I hope you have sweet dreams. I'm going to read the credits and let's have some like a lullaby music for this one. So everyone can sleep nicely. Laflines is written and produced by Kim Holderness, Penn Holderness

in Ann Marie Tabkey, the original music by Dan Holderness. It's filmed, edited and he has the pleasure of my fingernails. Live produced by Sam Allen and hosted by Acast.

That's the noise of Kim's snorting, snorting and snorting. As always, we love to hear from you,

please write to us at podcast at the Holdernessfamily.com. Leave a voice mail. 303-364-3929 will talk to you soon on a lab line.