Oh, hey there, I'm Brittany Loose and I don't know, maybe this is a little ou...
pockets to say but I think you should listen to my podcast.
“It's called "It's been a Minute" and I love it and I think you will too.”
Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the "It's been a Minute" podcast from NPR today. We're starting this episode in the top drawer of a dresser and reporter Julia Farlons living room. In that drawer is a small decorative bag filled with a few little things.
Okay, here it is. Okay, I can't believe I found it. There is a pair of avocado socks that purpled a little avocado into her fish. It's a miracle fish. My garden mix, Hudson Valley Seed Country is one thing pink, clay, mud mass. It doesn't say when it's expired. That says "You're my queen" featuring the queen of England in a flower
crown. I bought this on the Queen of England head. Not dead. Julia is describing a care package that she intended to send to her friend whose mom passed away in 2022. She reported this episode in 2024. This peg represents a total fail been supporting my friend. When you're grieving, the loss of a loved one. I mean, it's overwhelming, right? It's
all encompassing. And supporting someone through that can also be overwhelming and awkward like you don't know the right thing to say, which is why you might end up with a care package in your drawer that you haven't sent. Don't be like me folks. On today's episode of Life Kit, we're talking about how to support people in your life
who are grieving. We're going to hear from experts and folks who've lost a loved one about the ways that grief affected them and what kind of support they wanted. Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Loose. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of
“pockets to say, but I think you should listen to my podcast.”
It's called "It's been a minute." And I love it. And I think you will, too. Over the past couple of months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to me, it's been a minute podcast from NPR today. I started my reporting by calling up one of my dearest friends, Avi Wisnea. How am I doing today? I'm okay. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.
This season, you know, is when I lost both my brother and my father. So technically, I guess that means you're an expert. I'm sorry, and you're welcome. Yeah, but it's a weird thing to call an expert in grief, but I got it. I got it. Avi lost his brother dove to a brain tumor in 2012 and lost his dad, Eric, last year. So it's really interesting, like the changing of the seasons itself brings out that time,
like the time when my brother got sick, and then the time when, like, finding out that, well, like, we suddenly lost my father. So it's strange to have it tied to like a season like that.
When the leaves start falling, I always think about Avi's dad and brother who were both
incredibly charismatic people. And I think of how sometimes I felt a little uncomfortable about how to talk to him about these huge losses. Like, really, what could I ever say that would help? I think sometimes as a supporter, there's a lot of pressure that you place on yourself because in your mind, you may be thinking, I need to bring something. I need to say the right thing.
“I need to do this thing. When the truth is, there's nothing right that you can do.”
These wise words come from Dr. Mikael Harris, a psychologist and certified grief therapist, an author of the book, relaxing into the pain. And she says that supporting a person who's grieving isn't about saying the exact right thing at the exact right time. She says that supporting a grieving heart is about being a witness. And because of that, one of the best things you can do, which is this going to sound maybe paradoxical, is to actually bring up the loss.
Dr. Harris says that our intention might be to avoid loss and conversation because we don't want our grieving friend to remember it. But avoiding the topic doesn't actually make it go away.
So our first takeaway is to be a witness to the grief. Don't be afraid to bring up the person
They lost.
and hearing wonderful stories about them, like I will never not want to hear that. I always want to hear good things and memories of them. Even if it makes me a little sad, I want to hear that.
And I always appreciate it. Grief is basically never over. For a person who's lost someone they love,
their feelings about that loss unfurl throughout their life at their pace. And there's no specific timeline for that. So when you're supporting somebody and you feel awkward about how to bring it up, know that simply sharing a memory or making some space for them to talk about the person they lost is much better than avoiding it for fear of making them sad. Dr. Harris says even years or decades after a loss. They're still grieving that person in different ways and
different moments. So chances are they're already thinking about the person they lost. You can't bring something up that hasn't already been thought of. There's a matter of fact what a beautiful gift to actually highlight the loss so that the person grieving can talk about it, which is destigmatized as a grief and loss as a whole. And seeing someone in their grief doesn't mean you have to 100% understand what they're going through. It can be as simple as just saying it,
“colloquially, sometimes you say, oh, I can't imagine what you're going through. I mean, that's what”
I often say, just as a manner of speech. But Dr. Harris actually suggests that saying that you can imagine how hard it is might be a better way to share their grief. So just a sort of give a tangible example of what witnessing is. Just imagine if you and I were out, you know, on a beach and I look out into the water and I say, gosh, can you, can you see that in the distance? And you say, Michel, I can, I can see it too. And we both sort of marvel at whatever that thing is out there.
I also just want to say right now that a person's relationship to who they're grieving can be messy. There could be trauma in the loss or relationship that was difficult in life that only feels more difficult after the person's passing, acknowledging that complicated relationship or making space for a person to share about it is another way of witnessing. And just the same as you don't have to be the perfect supporter, the griefer doesn't have to be perfect in their grief either.
“If you're feeling awkward or as if you don't know what to say, I think it can be helpful to have”
some basic, do's and don'ts, which brings us to our second takeaway. There are helpful and unhelpful things to say when a person is grieving. Now, everyone I spoke to for this episode felt misunderstood by one particular thing, platitudes. What do you think people get wrong about grief? Oh goodness, I would immediately popped into my mind were cliches, right? So, at least they're on a better place. When you say like, oh, this happens for a reason. You've
don't want my, like, what was the reason my brother died? You know, that's like not it's a, sometimes it, it actually doesn't make you feel better. At least they're in a better place,
time heals all wounds, cliches are impersonal and they don't always make the person who's grieving
feel seen. Now, it's okay if you've said one of these things before, I think I've probably done it myself. Sometimes a cliché will fly out of your mouth before you even know it, but when you're trying to support someone who's grieving, try to avoid phrases or saying that aren't specific to them. Here are two things that you can avoid. First, anything that starts with at least. Even if you don't mean to, that could really minimize the person's suffering. Same goes for, it could be worse.
Remember, this could be the worst moment of their lives. They don't want to think about what could be worse. This is it. This is the worst part. The second thing to avoid is something like, God makes no mistakes. It might seem helpful, but to anyone who would prefer to, you know, be sitting with their loved one alive in that moment, it doesn't feel great to think about what kinds of things God did or didn't do on purpose. Now, here are some of the things that
might be better to say. You can say, I love you. You can say, this is so hard and I'm so sorry
it's happening to you. Or you could simply say, I'm sorry. Ultimately, the exact words don't matter
“as much as being authentic, specific, and honest. And if you want to tell them that you don't have”
the right words, but that you care about them, that's a great place to start. I spoke to Marissa Renee Lee, who's a grief expert and author of the book, "Greef is Love." Marissa says that there's a particular phrase that you can put in your text message that can really make people feel cared for.
Hey, I'm just I'm thinking of you.
no need to respond, no need to respond. If you reach out and you make it clear that you're thinking
of them, but they don't need to do anything, that can really lift a weight. I don't think I realized how much it mattered to other people, that specific framing of you don't need to respond until someone else called me out on it and told me how much it meant to them that, you know, they knew that I was there, but they didn't feel any obligation or responsibility or judgment or guilt around communicating what they were feeling. Whether you're near or far from the grieving person,
if you just release the other person from the pressure to respond, you're pouring your care into their well and you're not taking anything from it, which is the point.
We'll have more life kit after the break.
Oh, hey there, I'm Brittany loose and I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say,
“but I think you should listen to my podcast.”
It's called it's been a minute and I love it and I think you will, too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the it's been a minute podcast from NPR today. One thing that all of the experts I spoke to stressed is that in the moment of grief, it can be really helpful to think about the person's immediate needs. My friends got me gift cards
when my dad died and it was like, if cards to, you know, like food delivery service to a specific place or just anytime I needed a meal and I didn't even realize that I didn't have the energy to cook. I didn't have anything in the house and it took that task. It made it so much easier. Obviously, that when you're grieving, basic tasks can feel almost impossible.
“You know, like when you do a physical activity or you're at work all day or you go on a hike,”
it takes energy out of you and it feels like when you are grieving, you are just sacked of energy even if you're not doing anything. Grief takes energy and that leads us to
a third takeaway. Take care of some of the basic logistics for the person that you're supporting.
Delivering food, taking care of cutting the lawn, walking a dog, picking up mail, dropping clothes, off at cleaners. As my dad sometimes says, "K-I-S-S, keep it simple stupid. You don't need to find the most perfect card or gift. It might just be enough to drop off a lasagna at their front door." Morris says that in terms of support, grieving and welcoming new life have a lot in common. If your best friend has a baby, think about the things that you would do for them in that moment.
You know, you might leave a meal. You might show up and hold the baby for a little while so they can take a shower or brush their teeth or whatever and also think about the things that you would or would not expect from them. Crucially, all of the experts I spoke with express this idea of expectation. Expect that the person is going to be unable to do some pretty basic stuff. So the things that you can offer can be pretty basic as well. If you come over to their house,
maybe take out their trash or offer to walk their dog. Do a lot of dishes if you see them in the sink. Do something practical. Take their kid out so that they can cry alone. Take their dog for a walk. Drop off a meal. Ideally, something that can be frozen or saved for a future date, because a lot of people bring food. Clean their house. Do something that makes living easier for them. Make living easier for their person who's grieving. That feels simple.
Avi told a story about our friend Emily. Hi, Emily. Shout out to you. So, Avi's a musician and our friend Emily helped him realize that he wasn't going to be able to play
“a gig just days after his dad had died. And she said, you know, if you, if you need to cancel,”
like, that's okay. And I woke up that morning and I just, I felt like I couldn't do it. Emily's voice was in Avi's head reminding him that people would understand that he needed time. I just called her and I said, can you just call them and make sure it's taken care of? Like, I didn't want to leave them in a lurch, but I can't have that conversation. So Emily called and explained the situation and it was all okay.
And it, it's just the relief I felt after knowing that I could lean on somebody in that way. The most meaningful actions don't have to be huge when they show the person that you really care about them.
Another thing that Dr.
you might be having to make logistical choices that are just really challenging.
“You're having to make decisions about funeral homes and services and hosting all these different”
things, financial decisions that there's so much going on that it's such a gift to literally have a truncated choice. So as your handling logistics offer the person just a very simple choice so that they don't even have to think. Say something like, hey, do you want me to send you dinner or take your dog for a walk? And then they can say exactly what they need. And if you're not the kind of friend who does dishes or has a killer big ZD, that's fine. Maybe they need you to
come over and play video games or watch several hours of reality television. Whatever it is, stay true to who you are and if you can take down the recycling on your way out the door, go for it. To any of you who maybe forgot to mail something that we got for the funeral and have been kicking yourselves, I have news for you. Grief is forever. And that brings us to our next takeaway.
Keep reaching out and offering your support. So often after someone dies in that first week,
two weeks, month, we're getting phone calls, we're getting text, we're getting meals,
“people are stopping by. And then typically, his time goes on because life is continuing to move forward.”
The social support actually dwindles into the grieving heart. That can be devastating because if you think about this, this is another loss. After that last casserole has been thought and things are a little quieter, the person who's grieving has still lost somebody. And your role might be showing up after six months or a year just to see how things are going. So if you have a memory of the person that they lost or you come across a picture,
go ahead and share it with them. Okay. I am at the post office. And in the interest of full transparency, I'm mailing the care package. Sure, it's been two and a half years, but why would I make this episode if I wasn't going to take my own advice? All right. The thing has been mailed. You will be surrounded by people who are grieving at work, at school, and in your various friend and family groups, and in a perfect world, maybe the kind of world I want to live in.
Grief is a community task, and it's okay to play your role in it. Dr. Harris talked about it as a ring of concentric circles. And as you think about that person grieving at the center, and then sort of moving out into these other levels of care, these circles, it really is beautiful when we fashion it that way, because we realize that a supervisor has a role to play. A coworker has a role to play, siblings have a role to play. The neighbor has a role to play. Depending on your relationship to
the person who's grieving, you can show up the way that it makes sense. Marissa told me a story about when she lost her mom. She was barely 25 and working on Wall Street. There was another woman on the team who was a bit younger than Marissa, but this woman had lost her brother, so she knew how grief worked. And so when I came back to work, and this is one of those things that even all these years later, I still had choked up over because it was just so sweet, but one
of the things that was left at my desk was a mix CD that she made for me, because again, this was a long time ago folks. And some candy, you don't have to be somebody's best friend in the world to reach out when they're grieving. In fact, you could be the kind of person who makes Marissa happy cry about sour patch kids more than a decade later. It was authentic to me, to her, to our relationship, which wasn't super deep. She didn't leave me a letter that was three pages long about how much
she loved me and loved my mom, because she couldn't do that. Making a small gesture that says, "I see you, can really make an impression on the person who's grieving." Obviously, brother was diagnosed with a brain tumor in 2007 at 28 years old, and he had a surgery where they got most of it, which at the time seemed pretty good.
“And I remember talking with him after the surgery, and I asked him,”
"So what like happens to that party or brain where like the tumor was? Does it just like fill back in?" And he said, "No, there's just like a hole there." Five years later, the tumor came back, and it was an operable. So obviously, brother-dove slowly lost his ability to function. And then he died. I realized like, "Wow, there's this hole in my heart
that will never be filled in, and it will always be there." And I'm just going to have to walk
through life with this hole in my heart and figure out how to function with it.
When somebody is grieving their world, their heart has a hole in it.
you're never going to fill that hole or make the pain go away. But you can be there to witness it
“and hold that pain. Knowing that you don't have to be perfect, let's look at the ways of”
supporting folks in your life we're grieving. Take away one, witness the grief, and don't be afraid
to bring up the person that they lost. Take away two, saying something can feel awkward,
avoid platitudes, and be as specific as possible, even if it's simple. Take away three,
“give practical support as much as you can. Take away four, keep reaching out over time.”
Everyone has a role to play in supporting the grieving person. So obvious a musician and songwriter,
so I asked him for a song that might play us out that speaks to the grief that he carries. So to all of you who are grieving and supporting grief, this is for you. That was reported Julia for a line. And that's our show. Just a reminder that you can sign up for LifeKit Plus to support our work at NPR and to get curated playlists on popular LifeKit topics. Start listening today at plus.npr.org/lifekit. This episode of LifeKit was produced by
Margaret Serino. It was edited by Sylvie Douglas. Our digital editor is Malaga Greeb, and our visuals editor is CJ Rekelon. Meghan Kane is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle and Claire Marish Nighter. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Mary El Sigata. Thanks for listening. Oh, hey there. I'm Brittany Loose. And I don't know, maybe this is a little out of pocket to say,
“but I think you should listen to my podcast. It's called "It's been a minute." And I love it.”
And I think you will, too. Over the past couple months, over 100,000 new listeners started tuning in. Find out why. Listen to the "It's been a minute" podcast from NPR today.
