Is Israel ACTUALLY God’s Chosen People… or just Christians!? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

“No exception. We're not saved by our ethnicity. We're saved by faith in Jesus.”

There are roughly 2400 verses about the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Jesus talked about this a lot because He wanted us to think about it a lot. Well, hey, Lift Reination. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas. But the Lift Reination is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, "Man, I wish I could be part of something like this.

We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for Church Online." Every weekend, we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform. And it's more than just watching a service. There are live hosts and chat prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time.

And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend and now enjoy the podcast. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Lift Free podcast. My name is Carlos Rasser and today I'm here with Pastor Josh Howard and Pastor Paul Coneyham.

I'm a makeup prediction. This is going to be the most interesting episode we've ever done. That's not hyperbole. And no tinfoil hat today. No tinfoil hat. But we can do it. Let's go inside. We can today. We're going to be talking about the end times. We will be answering some questions such as are the juice God's chosen people.

“Should Christians support Israel is the rise of Islam ushering in the biblical end times prophecies for all.”

And we have a special guest joining us later today. John Bevere will be joining the pot. Legend. Just a little bit.

The first half of the episode is for Tucker Rawlson.

And we got. That's right. We're also going to be reacting to with Tucker Carlson video as well on the subject. By the way, guys, this week, Lift Free podcast hit number three charts. We got a little visual here. Look at them. Me and Father Mike. Father Mike, let's go.

Listen, we're Martin Luther knocking on the castle door of Vittenberg. We just can't get Father Mike. Someone needs to turn you into AI with the with the nail in your hand. And it's like it was you know, devilishly good looks. And the trillions of dollars that the Catholics have to throw at promoting their podcast.

What can we get there? We'll photoshop P2's phase on Martin Luther and it'll say mail it. I'm nailed it. We got to get, oh wait, before we get into all of the spicy things. I discovered this week a live free listener actually educated me where the phrase, let's kick this pig came from.

Okay, so before we show this, I didn't know this. So this was a phrase that just like a bunch of the dudes that I ran with in high school, we would say.

Okay, then I went to camp, shout out Patrick Greer.

I worked a youth camp with Patrick Greer as a counselor and he would say it. And I just thought, oh, this is a rural. This is like a Kentucky thing. No, apparently not. This is a 1996 Kelsey Grammar down Periscope movie thing.

We're all that beautiful being footage. Here it comes. All right, gentlemen, let's kick this pig. That's the original canonical appearance.

“What you're, what you're, did you say that was 1996?”

1996. So I was, uh, I think I was a sophomore. We can tell, go. Oh, I'm sorry, isn't it? Because that's a, you're joking me. That's a me, young, not that young.

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That's a me, not that young. That's a me, not that young. That's a me, not that young. That's a me, not that young. Because honestly, the conversation with behavior on end times and eschatology is stupidly

good. Yeah. It's like literally maybe the most mind blowing conversation I've had in years. So we're going to make this front half abbreviated so we can get to get to that. Let me just say studying for this mess.

So we did this week. We're in a series called investigating Jesus. If you don't know why. Let me just for a new Bible readers. People are listening.

The book of Luke is written by a guy that was a trained medical doctor named Luke had a radical conversion and started to fall in around primarily the Apostle Paul. The book of Luke and the book of Acts if you didn't know this are two parts. It's a is a is a compendium of two parts one story. So it's like Avengers infinity war and in game kind of the same thing.

Both Luke and Acts are written. Here's why we're calling it investigating Jesus. Both Luke and Acts are written to Luke's one more. The name Theophilus did know Jesus and he specifically says the beginning of Luke. He says I have carefully investigated all these things concerning the man concerning Jesus Christ.

So he's trying to answer all his buddies questions. So what we're doing here in this series is like what are the questions people have by Jesus? And not surprisingly one of the biggest questions people have is Jesus said he's going to come back. When will that happen and what's he going to do? That's where we talk about here.

“That's what Bavir is going to talk about on the back half of the pod.”

I'm actually to keep this concise. I'm going to only going to share like two quick things.

So first of all, what we're doing is we're in Luke 20.

Luke 20 corresponds with Matthew. I think it's 23 and 24. It's called in Matthew 23 and 24. It's called the Olivet Discourse. Right before Jesus goes to the cross.

He's standing on the Mount of olives, which is why it's called the Mount of the Olivet Discourse. And his disciples ask him essentially like, hey, are he is now when you're going to restore the kingdom to Israel? Like are you going to now? Interestingly, Jesus responds with the longest response to any question he was ever asked. And it's about his second coming.

I just think that's interesting. I'll be honest. I'm going to confess something to pod listeners. Honestly man. So big theological word here.

This is called eschatology. Eschatology comes from two Greek words. Eschaton means end. Right. End or less.

End or less. And all of Jesus means study of. So when Christians use the word eschatology, it just means the study of the end. I'll be honest.

I have always hated eschatology.

It's just like not my thing. It's super confusing.

“A lot of times I'm like, why does this actually matter for my life today?”

He's coming back and I would always make the joke. You know, some people say they're omel. Some people say they're pre-mails. Some people say they're post-mail. I'm pan-mail.

I'm a way and see how it all pans out. Honestly, just public repentance. I don't think that's a biblical attitude to have. And I really study in this week. It really landed on me.

Jesus talked about this a lot because he wanted us to think about it a lot. There are roughly 24 hundred verses about the second coming of Jesus Christ. Because and here's the big idea. The emphasis is not as much on what's the sequence of events. Although that's fun to study and talk about.

The emphasis is in the words of the Great Theologian Conomer Gregor.

If you stay ready, you don't got to get ready.

“And what Jesus tells all these parables like, hey, you know, the 12 versions.”

Keep your lamps lit. Hey, this is, you know, stay ready. Stay ready. And he wanted us to think about it a lot because he's like, hey man, I'm coming soon. Stay ready.

Stay ready.

Now, uh, Trinity, so here's, here's what happens in this past.

It's here's a quick overview. I'm going to call for that, uh, the, the rocks, the big stones. I'm going to call for that in a second. So basically what you got in Luke 20 verses 20 through 28. Jesus essentially divides all of human history into three epics.

And Christians are not good at thinking about this. So first of all, he, I'm going to read it real quick. He says, but when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, he's making a prophecy. He's making a prophecy that has already been fulfilled right here. Uh, then know that its desolation has come near.

Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let those who are inside the city to part. Let those who are out in the country enter it. For isn't in those days of vengeance to fulfill all that is written. Alas for women who are pregnant and those who are nursing infants in those days.

I'm going to talk about why this matters. For there will be great distress on earth and wrath against this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword. Be led captive among all nations and will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles.

“This is really important right here until what Jesus calls the time of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

So what Jesus does in Luke 20 is he prophesized by the way before it happened. Jesus prophesized there's going to come a day very soon. In his day when the temple would be destroyed, Jerusalem would be destroyed. And the Jewish people would be scattered among the nations. Now.

So this first epic of history was just called Judaism.

So what he's talking about is the end of the epic E.P.O.C.H. Epoc. The epoc of history that was Judaism. And he's saying that's going to come to an end. That happened.

Trinity this is a review so I'm just going to do it real fast. That happened. So exactly what Jesus said happened happened. It was just on a pod before so I don't need to talk about it at the time again. In 70 AD, a Roman military leader named Titus comes,

besieges Israel. And literally exactly what Jesus prophesied in Luke 20 happened. So they literally he said would surround Israel. They surrounded Israel. Siege warfare is a form of warfare where they like hey we don't got to fight you.

So they are in the Indian dehydrate and good luck to you. So they Siege Israel or they Siege Jerusalem. They cut off all the supply lines. And that's exactly what happened. The Jewish historian, Josephus,

says a million Jews, a million Jews in Jerusalem.

We're killed in that siege. Tassetus, a Roman historian in the third century. If I understand correctly, third or fourth century. More like half that, 500,000, either way, massive slaughter of the Jewish people. The other prophecy Jesus made was that the temple would not be left with a single stone upon one another.

And again, we've hit this before. But if you go with me someday to Israel and you look over the,

“I think it's the western side of the temple mount.”

That's what you're going to see. And what you're seeing right there is exactly. Exactly what Jesus said would happen. It would happen. Did you talk that one?

Happen. I took that. And so what you're seeing right there is the Roman army comes in. And I don't got to tell the story again. But they literally cast down every single stone.

There is not one stone on that temple mount ever again. Wow. So let me just highlight this. If what Jesus said would happen did happen. Then everything that Jesus said will happen is going to happen.

All right. So there's what you got. You have the end of the epoch of history known as Judaism. So we'll get into this in a second. What I'm about to say raises a lot of questions. Judaism is done.

Judaism as it was practiced is done. It's fulfilled. We are not anti Judaism. But we are. It's fulfilled.

It's essentially. The New Testament word is it is now obsolete. It was a type in a shadow of things to come fulfilled. Judaism's done. Okay.

The next epoch of history Jesus calls the time of the Gentiles. That's where we are right now. The reason it's called the time of the Gentiles is because. In both the Great Commission of Matthew 28, he says now much to take the gospel to quote all nations.

Well, guess who all nations are. Like Gentiles. Yeah. Gentiles. And throughout the book of Acts, especially in Acts 10.

What you have is the spread of the gospel to the Gentiles. So it's essentially got going. Okay, man. This ain't just Jewish thing anymore. Every child term nation language.

We're in the middle of the time of the Gentiles.

“And our job during the time of the Gentiles is to see every nation.”

All the Gentiles come to know Jesus Christ. Then. And this is where we're going to talk about primarily on this pod. Then next, what he says is after the time of the Gentiles. We're right now.

We'll come a third epoch of history that we have yet to experience.

He says. And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars and on the earth. Distress of the nations and proplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves. People fainting with fear for boating was coming. And then they will see the sun of man coming in a.

Hmm. Lord, haste the day. Yes. And then they will see the sun of man coming in the cloud with power. And great glory.

And when these things begin to take place. Straighten up. And raise your heads because your redemption draws there. Amen. That is.

I just want to go ahead and say this. We're going to talk about this later. The pod. Some people when Christians start talking about end times. Very frankly, there are some things that are kind of freaky.

Hmm. But the big emotion for a Christian when we talk about end times is like, come on. Lord, ace the day. It's like, oh, it's a wedding day. It's like from the eight thing on the four months.

Me and Janna were engaged all I could think about was the wedding.

I can't wait to get to the day when we're finally fully united.

“That's what God wants every Christian to feel like.”

Oh, come on man. Let's go. Come count. You know, that's what the Lord wants you feeling. I'm going to give only one thing that blew my mind a little bit.

And honestly, sent, you know, I'm kind of speaking us both sides of my mouth. Send a chill down my spine. When I was studying this. And then we're going to transition to answering. There's a lot of questions in our culture right now about the Jewish people.

What should Christians relationship be with the nation of Israel? We're going to answer some of those. And then Paul's going to give a quick overview of what are called eschatological positions. That Christians have. We're going to have some fun little spicy debate among the three of us because we have some disagreements.

And then we're going to talk. We're going to talk to old Bevere. Let me just say one thing that honestly sent a chill down my spine. Okay, and I'm going to ask Bevere what he thinks about this later and I'm fascinated. So you want something. I deep love this this week.

“You want something that will send a chill down your spine when you're talking about biblical end times.”

Here you go. If you start doing a deep dive on Christian beliefs about the end times and Islamic beliefs about the end times, I'm going to show you some things. I'm going to blow your mind and be going to send a chill down your spine. Okay, now just stick with me.

So in John 16, Jesus says about the end. The time is coming when they will kill you and think they are offering service to God. Now, the last 30, 40 years in America, Christians have been really focused on men secularism, atheism. It's a big problem. We got to oppose it and they're right. But what that verse says is that the final boss in the end times is not going to be secularism.

That verse says the final boss is going to be some form of religion that when they kill Christians, they think they're doing something holy and that their God is pleased with. Clue number one. Now, number two, fast forward revelation chapter 20. And John is given a vision, an eschatological vision. This is what he says he sees.

The souls of those who had been beheaded, beheaded. He specifically mentions the type of death. These people at these martyrs experienced. The souls of those who had been beheaded because they watched this, they refused to worship the beast. In John 20, the beast is the antichrist.

I'm going to come back to that. This is going to send chills down your spine. Now, kind of point this out says they were beheaded. There is one religion and one religion only, whose quote unquote holy book specifically prescribes beheading

as the preferred way to kill infidels is Islam. The Quran calls it striking necks. There's only one religion. Wow, that does that. All right, now. Number three, let's go a little air deeper.

If you go to second, that's loyence two, nine through twelve.

Paul is telling this church about what's going to happen at the end. And he talks about something that's called a strong delusion. Now, I'm going to read it, listen really close to how he describes this. He says the coming of the lawless one, that's another new testament name for the antichrist. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works.

He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie. And all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.

For this reason, listen, we're close.

God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie.

And so that all will be condemned to have not believed the truth, but have delighted and wickedness. Now, what it's talking about right here is what theologians will often call the passive wrath of God. Romans 1 talks about how the wrath of God is poured out on all mankind,

so that he quote, "gave them up to their desires and their delusions." So one way that God pours out wrath and judgment on a people is when people decide, "You know what? I hate God. I don't want him to do with them." In fact, I love rebellion, he's God. The word of God says that he will not strive with man forever.

Eventually what God does is he goes, "You know what? You want nothing to do with me. You want to rebel against me. You want to walk away from me?" Your will be done. Romans 1. Your will be done. You get exactly what you want, brother.

This says in 2 Thessalonians that in the end,

“that's what God will do and a mass number of people”

will be given over to a strong delusion to believe a lie that the anti-Christ promulgates. Okay, now, can I just point this out to you? There are things that I'm already seeing in our culture right now with regard to Islam that I'm like,

the only word for that right there is delusional, for instance. This whole deal where there's like this weird, unholy alliance between progressiveism and Islam, it makes no sense. It is literally delusional.

Okay, so this is a side note, but I just want to point, I'm just connecting dots, stick with me. So progressivism, these are the people who are supposedly about women's rights, LGBT rights, sexual liberation, free societies, literally do what they want, okay.

And they're partnering, they're partnering with Islam. So the people who are about women's rights, supposedly, are partnering with the people who make women wear burkas and beat them if they don't cover their hair.

“The people who are supposedly about LGBT rights is like,”

you know, queer's for Palestine. Like, saying queer's for Palestine is like saying chickens for KFC. It's like the people who are supposedly about, quote unquote, LGBT rights are partnering with people who throw them off buildings in Gaza if they come out.

The people who are supposedly for sexual liberation are partnering with the people who give death penalties to people in predominantly Islamic nations for sexual expression. And the people who are supposedly about free societies are partnering with the people who want to bring in Sharia law.

Okay, that makes no sense. Do you know what it is? It's delusional. Yes, okay. Now, dude, here's what?

This week, here's what like, I'm studying this,

and I'm like, holy Moses. If you start studying what in Islamic eschatology, Islamic view of the end times is called the Madhi. In Islamic eschatology,

“there will be an end times messianic figure that's called the Madhi”

that comes in and usher in these end times events that usher in the end of the world in paradise in Islam. Now, what I'm going to do is I'm going to bullet point for you what Muslims believe the Madhi will do. When I read these, if you are a Bible aware Christian,

you're going to have a whole bunch of flashing lights in your head going, whoa, whoa, whoa, that sounds familiar. And I'm going to tell you why here in a second. So in Islamic eschatology, the Madhi will emerge as a charismatic messianic world leader

during a global chaos. He will take control of the world and destroy everyone who resist him. He will invade many nations. He will rule and reign for seven years. He will broker a seven year peace treaty with the Jews.

He will conquer Israel and massacre the Jews. He will establish an Islamic one-world government headquartered in Jerusalem. He will establish Islam as the only acceptable religion. He will come on a white horse.

Hello. He will come on a white horse with supernatural power doing signs and wonders.

He will be assisted by a powerful prophet.

Now listen. If any of that sounds familiar, it is because it is a precise description of the Bible's anti-Christ. So think about this.

Islam's Madhi is the Christian anti-Christ. Like we know that throughout the white horse in Revelation 6 is the Antichrist. They use that verse to describe their Madhi. Now let me go one last layer of deeper.

Now I will charge you both to you. May disagree with part of this, but that's his problem. So if you go talk about that in a second. If you view Ezekiel 38 as an eschatological prophecy, which if you view it that way, a lot of Christians do.

Then what you're waiting for is that at the end,

They will wage a multi-front war. Everybody aligns against Israel.

“And it's going to look like Israel is going to be destroyed.”

And that at that moment is the moment that Jesus Christ will return. War horse tattoo on a thigh, fire in his eyes, sword out of his mouth. And he will destroy them and put down the enemies of God now.

Dude, here's what's insane.

If you go back to Zekeel 38. Here are the nations that it lists. Again, now it's using the names for those nations in the time that Ezekiel was written. So it uses the names.

The names. "Gog, Megog, Meshek and Tubal, Persia, Kush, Put, Gummer. And then I'll get this pronounced wrong Beth, Tokerma. Okay. Now, the modern day equivalents for those nations are. "Gog and Megog corresponds to primarily Russia and Central Asia. Meshek and Tubal, that's Turkey. Persia is Iran.

Kush is Sudan. Put is Libya. Gummer is Turkey and Beth, Tokerma is also Turkey." Now, everybody is out. All but one of those today are Islamic nations. And guess what is the fastest growing religion in the only one of those nations

“that is not yet an Islamic nation, Russia?”

Islam. Islam. Some are predicting that it will reach 30% of the population in the next 10 to 15 years. Listen, I'm just telling you man, I don't know how to read these things without at least wondering if Islam, the rise of Islam is ushering in the events of the Biblically prescribed in times.

I don't know how to do it. Now listen, Christians, I always want to say this.

Christians should love Muslims because God loves all people and save all people. They're Gentiles too. They got one safe. Christians should love Muslims. Christians should hate Islam because it is a demonic ideology and religion that destroys and enslaves the people that are here to it.

So there you go. Those are the man, now listen to children. Wow. It's almost as if Paul might disagree with this. It's almost as if what we're seeing today.

It seems like it's connected to a lot of what scripture has already spoken into and ties into our expectation of Christians for Jesus to come back. You hear a lot about that from the viewer in a couple minutes. And for the record, might be a little loud. Okay, all right.

Like my view will allow us that it might be, might be, would say it could be. It just doesn't have to be. We'll go there. We'll go there. Just a little bit.

We'll go there. We're going to address some common questions. Yes. Basically, right now, especially on social media, there's a lot of conversations on really the role of Israel for Christians.

“How does a Bible says and commands Christians to relate to Jewish people?”

And how all of this really fits into n times biblical studies. So we're going to show a video here in just a second. It's basically Tucker Carlson setting us up. And then we're going to listen to the video. And we're going to respond with this guy.

I don't know what's going on. This is just going to happen. That's right. Yeah. All right.

So by the way, here's how this ties in. Let's go and pull up that Tucker clip. Here's the reason this ties in. The reason this ties in is because we just finished reading the passage, where Jesus says that the epoch of Judaism is done.

So that raises a bunch of questions. Right. And it's the questions we're going to answer. It's kind of the questions that are circulating in our culture right now. So we want to roll the Tucker clips.

Let's do it. There is no chosen people. The chosen people are people who choose Jesus. That is the Christian message right there. It's not an anti-Semitic message.

By the way, it's the Christian message. Just the core Christian message. And yet there are many self-described representatives of the Christian faith. Who are daily sending a different message. And we should be very clear whatever this is.

It's not Christianity. It is heresy. And among the many examples we can pick. We're going to go with Lindsey Graham. Oh, but hey, I want to pop up with us.

Okay. So go back to the beginning of the Lindsey Graham clip. But first, let's pause and answer. Because there's something Lindsey Graham says here in a second. We're going to answer.

Let's answer the first question. Okay. So what Tucker's saying is he's going, "The Jewish people are not God's chosen people. Christians are now God's chosen people."

Chagipalty, what say you? Is it true that in no sense are the Jewish people, God's chosen people anymore? Absolutely not. I talk here's 100% wrong.

Jews are 1 million percent for sure.

It's still God's chosen people. But we do have to clarify what we don't mean.

Because I think sometimes you see stuff like this.

“And even the conversations can be so tough.”

Because we're trying to get really simple and easy answers to really complex, complex questions. We got to give clear answers. But we got to make sure we don't give too simplistic answers.

Here's what we don't mean.

We don't mean that by the Jews being God's chosen people that they're automatically saved. No. 100% now. We've covered this before that.

We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. No exceptions. We're not saved by our ethnicity. We're saved by faith in Jesus. So for clarity before you go on,

you are clearly saying as we've covered before in the podcast. Modern day Jewish people who reject Jesus as Messiah, but practice faithful old covenant type Judaism are or are not saved. They are not saved. They are not saved.

They are not saved. They are not saved. So we don't mean that they're automatically saved. And to that point, we don't mean that Judaism is a legitimate substitute for faith in Christ.

Correct. It is not. As you said, it's not a false religion. It's a fulfilled religion. And so it's now obsolete.

“A third thing we don't mean is we don't mean,”

and we'll cover this maybe in a bit,

that we have to support everything that's modern state of Israel does. That's part of what he got. I think is setting the stage. I want to go ahead and say that. That's the beginning.

We'll get into a line a bit. Here's what we do mean. We do mean that God chose Israel to be the people that would bring the Messiah into the world. We do mean that God's covenant promises to Israel

are not completely erased. Literally scripture says this in a way that could not be more clear. Romans 11, one through two, this is Paul, the apostle with Paul speaking. He says, "I ask then has God rejected his people,

speaking of the Jewish people, by no means." For I myself am in Israel. Listen, I haven't described myself. He says he's in Israel.

Even though the nation's state of Israel did not exist at that time. I'd just send it a vapor ham. A member of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people,

whom he for knew that word for no right there. It's not really talking about God knowing the future. It's another word for those whom he chose as his chosen people. Later in that same chapter,

he says, "As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake." But it's regards to God. Let me just, I'm highlighting this.

“That right there is one of the many reasons”

in the New Testament we know that Jewish people who reject Jesus of the Messiah, but practice a faithful form of old covenant Judaism aren't saved. You literally just read it.

I literally just read it. As regards the gospel, they're still enemies. And Paul on these chapters, I'd like to check them and I say, "My heart is our familiar,

that they wouldn't be saved." That's right. Why would he say that if they were already saved? Yeah. So you know, back to exactly what you're saying.

But as regards election, which is another word that we would just say, as regards to their being chosen, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers, for the gifts and calling of God,

or the chosenness of God, are irrevocable. Now, there's some debate amongst Christians about how those promises are fulfilled. So I'm going to say, "No, the promises of the land that we've fulfilled others would say no,

but what all Christians should agree on is that there is still hope for a mass Jewish conversion as part of God's redemptive plan, which we get to later in Romans 11. So are they chosen,

since they're automatically saved? No, that Judaism is a legitimate substitute for faith in Christ. No. But they are in the sense of God still loves them. He chose them.

And he still has a plan for them specifically that one day there would be a mass conversion of them to Jesus. That's it. So if you go back to the original question,

let me summarize. You tell me this is a good way to say this. If you go back to the original question, are the Jewish people God's chosen people?

The answer is yes and no.

Exactly. So it's basic logic. The law of non-contradiction is something too contradicting things cannot be true at the same time and in the same sense.

Well, these are not in the same sense. So they're not God's chosen people from the perspective in a salvific manner. So they are not chosen in the sense that men are saved.

Exactly. But they, that ethnic Jewish people are the, these are rough shot words. I would massage this. If I had time to think about it.

The ethnic Jewish people were chosen for specific promises purposes and plans of God that are still in effect and yet to be fulfilled.

Exactly. And one of the ways, and there's some debate amongst course, but one of the ways we know we fulfilled is later in Romans 11, Paul says this way, all Israel will be saved.

The overwhelming consensus is the belief that towards the end of time that there'll be a mass conversion of Jewish people to Christ. Now, he doesn't promise that for every other people

grew up in the world. He does promise it for this one. That's right. I'm going to read that verse and then let's move on to the next part.

This is Romans 11, starting in verse 25. The reason we're hitting this if you're listening, you may not be aware of this. There is extremely contentious debate in sort of media world right now about this.

And there's a lot of really bad, bad teaching. Like we're responding to you right now,

So here's the passage, Romans 11, starting verse 25. I do now want you to be ignorant of this mystery of brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceded. Israel has experienced a hardening in part.

“Now, I'm going to pause here and this is why that part's important.”

In a second, when it says all Israel be saved,

what's hard, it's called super-sessionism, what's hard, super-sessionist belief. That's a big fancy word for what's called replacement theology that really now the church has completely replaced Israel and they're exactly the same in a covenantal sense.

The reason that cannot, what, what, what hard, super-sessionist do is when you read the part that I'm going to read here in a second, where it says all Israel will be saved, if they go, yeah, of course. But the book of Galatians says that where the church is Israel now.

Well, it's not talking in that sense, obviously, in this part of Romans 11, because he says Israel has experienced a hardening in part. It's clearly referring to ethnic Jews. Israel has experienced a hardening in part

until the full number of Gentiles has come in

and then here's the wonderful promise.

And in this way, all Israel will be saved.

“So what most theologians have said is that in the end times,”

before the return of Christ, you will see a massive revival and turning to Christ among the Jewish people, and so many of them will get saved, that somebody could colloquially say, dude, it seems like every Jew everywhere is becoming a Christian.

It's going to be awesome. All right, man. Let's see the Lindsey Graham thing, because that's going to lead to the next question. A word of warning. If America pulls the plug on Israel,

God will pull the plug on us. God will kill you if you don't support BB Netanyahu. That's what he said. He will pull the plug on you. Like a quadriplegic and intensive care.

You're going to flatline unless you support the secular, abortion on demand government of Israel. That's the Christian perspective. Okay, there's two questions you just got brought up, and let's ask them.

So let's ask this question.

“Does the Bible command Christians to support the modern state of Israel?”

I'm going to start with you, Chagipalti. Carlos, feel free to chime in. I will. So let's start with Chagipalti. Does the Bible command Christians to support the modern state of Israel?

And let me just set the table. This goes back. Lindsey Graham is referencing the Genesis 12 promise that God gave Abraham and his descendants. That those who bless you, I will bless.

So when he says, hey man, if the United States pulls the plug on Israel, God's going to pull the plug on the United States. He's referencing back to the Genesis 12 promise. Bless you, I will be blessed. That's enough.

So Chagipalti, let's begin with you. Does the Bible command Christians to support the modern state of Israel? Well, hey, live free nation, one of the reasons we're so passionate about conversations like this is because we believe real discipleship doesn't just happen in isolation. It happens in relationships.

It happens around tables in honest conversations with people walking together toward Jesus. And if you've been listening to this podcast thinking, and I want more than just content, I want community. This right here is for you. Our next rooted experience begins Tuesday, April 21st.

This is an in-person only 10 week discipleship journey designed to help you grow deeper in your relationship with God, build meaningful relationships, and discover the purpose God created for you. And so if you're already part of Lake Point Church and haven't gone through rooted yet, your next step is to sign up for rooted at your campus. And we'd love to help you take that step.

Just text the word, root it to 2, 0, 4, 1, 1. And since our rooted groups are an in-person-only opportunity, if you live outside the DFW area, your next step is to get plugged into a local Bible-believing church and step into a discipleship pathway there.

Because here's what we would say, real spiritual growth happens in community, not alone.

And so I want to invite you to real faith, real community, and real freedom in Christ. And now let's dive back into the episode. You're going to hate my initial answer, and that's because I have to answer the question. What do we mean by support? That's important.

That's important. It's really important. And again, this is where it gets so hard to have good faith conversations with people. Because it's by support, you mean, I have to completely agree with everything they do. And then I'd say, well, of course not.

Because the Israelites and the Old Testament were sending left and right and people shouldn't have agreed with their behavior. And also, just we got to point out, like, the modern state of Israel is a parlementary system and last time I checked, the Prime Minister has a 45% approval rating. So the own people in his country don't fully support all the things.

So if they don't, I sure don't have to as well. That being said. Wait, wait, before you go on. So yeah, what you just said is important.

during the reign of a wicked king like Manessa,

yeah, of course you're not supposed to support every single thing that the wicked king of Israel does like Manessa did. In fact, half of the Old Testament is God prophetically decrying incorrect sinful actions that the government of Israel took in that time.

“So we're obviously not saying, well, you have to agree with anything that the government of Israel does.”

I think it's been said, too. This is why some apologists would say Jewish apologists would say, this is how they know that the Old Testament is not made up fiction.

because there's no other people in history would have a book that is holy

basically saying we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong,

basically saying "we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we got it wrong, we

- That you, that you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you,

side with them against your thing earlier is Lomaker James, who would want to exterminate them if they could have their way. And so we should broadly support them, but it does not mean that we have to personally agree with everything into your point and say with their providence and the Old Testament, who had to call them out when they were going wrong, we should have been willing to do the exact same thing. I know that wasn't the most hard answer

“ever, but I'm just saying that's that's how I would new on today. I think a lot of the times”

the context of some of these conversations also is basically a little bit of a, hey, we're

Christians because we got crisis came, we're better. And there's a little bit of a sense, it seems in some cases of superiority towards people that have not trusted Christ that are Jewish people. Romans 11, Paul literally warns Gentiles to not look down on Jewish people because even though they may have rejected Christ, Jewish people remain beloved by God. This is what the Bible says for the sake of their forefathers and the gifts and the coins have got are irrevocable. So

Paul is basically anticipating, hey, you know Christ, you are not allowed to look down on somebody like that is Jewish, that's not no Christ yet. That's literally the, the words in Romans 11 in the, I think it's a KJV, boast not against the branches. In fact, we just read the verse this says so that you do not become conceited. It's literally warning readers, hey, we're watching out. You're going to have a temptation to look down on unbelieving Jews and think them

uniquely evil and it's literally warning. Don't do that. That's the warning. Exactly. And

“the last word I've given this and I'll probably need to move to the next question is, I think”

as people are, it's just coaching some people on how to have these conversations in a good faith way, is if they're like, no, we shouldn't support them at all with they do evil things. The thing I would often would have one ask, well, what would you have them do? For example, if Hesbal is just throwing like raining rockets instead of their nation, so you would just have them sit there and do nothing. So if people were doing the same thing to us, you would have us do nothing in response.

So I think that's part of, we speak as his broad terms. I think it's just really more helpful to say, okay, we don't have to support everything they do, but then what would you have them do? And if you can't give a good answer to that and if it's not consistently what you would have every other nation that we're all doing in terms of defending themselves, you're probably being a little hypocritical. I'll just say it. So, Paul, how would you do you think, so Lindsey Graham

is targeting back to the Genesis 12 promise, essentially those who bless you, I will bless. Yeah. And then what people do is they'll translate it to, hey, so those who bless his Rob will bless. Is that promise still in effect toward the people of Israel in any way? What do we think? I got thoughts. You got thoughts about it for you to go through. You'll make a friend. Here's how I would say it. Here's how I would say it. I'm going to read,

so Romans 11, five times, uses the phrase, grafted in. And this is really important. So Paul already read the passage where he says, hey, the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. The argument of the argumentative flow of Romans is that none of the promises will ever fail. That's like the whole thing. None of the promises will ever fail. And none of the promises are revocable. So you'll see some hard super-sessionists that will do this thing like, hey man, in 87,

what happened is God divorced Israel. He was married to Israel, but they need divorced Israel.

some of the branches have been broken off. And they'll go, see, God broke off the people of Israel and did it. What I would say is, no, no, five times it uses the word that we Christians, we're grafted into the promises that were given to them. So what I would say is that that promise, like every promise God gives is still an effect. I would say that it refers to both ethnic Jewish people and Christians who have been grafted into their promises. So I would say that in

general, yes, that there is blessing that Christians should expect to accompany blessing, ethnic descendants of Abraham, and people get into a million questions about the Ashkenazi Jews and I was like, hey man, here's all of them. The greatest concentration of descendants of Abraham

“in the world. Yes, they live in Israel. I think it's 45 percent. It's like around 45 percent of the”

world Jewish people live there. So we are not, again, everyone's simple answers to complex things.

We're not saying, oh, you always have to back any decision that the government of Israel

takes. That's literally no one is saying that. We are saying we should seek, uh, we should seek to bless them. Yeah. No, I'm very much with it. It's exactly what I say is that on the one hand, again, I'm very always just careful to say, I don't believe that things take the exact same Israel. But that's pointed to, in terms of how I best fulfill that commitment today. So what you said, hey, 45 percent of the Jews in the world are in the modern state of Israel, modern state of Israel,

I think it's 75 percent Jewish. So while I would not equate the two to me, if I am going to be generally for them, and generally for like, like, them just as a people, then it seems like I should broaden it. That's the key where I keep using this broadly support them and support them in general. But like I said, and be willing to call them out when they're not living up. So God's calling

“on them again. And so I'm, and I think what Lindsey Graham is getting is just the idea of like, hey,”

if in terms of pulling the plug on America, I really, if you ask Lindsey, what do you mean, there's like, hey, God is blessed. This is as a nation. We should not think that that's going to continue if all of a sudden we oppose them. I think that's probably what Lindsey was saying. So Carlos, we're going to say, no, no, you're good. That makes a lot of sense. In these movements,

as well, in Psalm 122, there's a prayer that says basically, you're praying for the peace in Jerusalem.

And so that's also used in connection to the Genesis promise. Question for both of you, guys, if somebody's saying, well, you have heard somebody say, well, we should as Christians, we should pray for the peace in Jerusalem. And then we'll be blessing coming your way because of that. Yes, no, agree or disagree. I'm, I'm pro praying for peace. This is a Jerusalem is a good. I'm great. Let your king, the pump on earth as it is heaven.

Again, I'm always like, what's the alternative? I'm in the, I'm in the peace in Jerusalem.

“I think it's best for us in these conversations. It's like, so what's the alternative here? Like,”

what do you want me to do if not that? Yeah, but they would say, you know, like a specific prayer for, like we don't say, you know, we don't say pray for peace in, I don't know, like Minnesota. I mean, I guess some do, but you know what I mean? Like, but then generally speaking, they would just ask, well, that's in the Bible. And so therefore, I have some sort of responsibility to included in my regular prayers peace in Jerusalem. I'll say, in one sense,

so here's my first thought. I would want to think more in massages, maybe, but I always say in

first thought is, in one sense, yes, in one sense, no. Again, so what I would say is number one, if you're talking about praying for the peace and blessing on the Jewish people, yes. But when you're talking about praying for the peace in Jerusalem, if you're talking about specifically the parts of Jerusalem where the Old Testament practices of Judaism that included the temple, the priests as mediators and the sacrificial system, that's all done.

Yeah. It's done. It's, I'm using Bible words. You can get mad all you want. It's obsolete. It's fulfilled. There is literally no, nothing spiritually helpful about any of those things anymore. We have Jesus now. That's right. Jesus is the temple to end all temples. The sacrifice to end all sacrifices. And we have one mediator between God and man, the God man, Jesus Christ. Thank you. All that's done. It's done. Exactly. One, one other thing. Is that say this? It's like,

what you do see in the New Testament is, well, obviously, we've just said for this entire time, God still has a heart for His chosen people, the Jewish people. What you do see in the New Testament is a reversal in the sense of it's no longer about Jerusalem. It's about going to the end of the earth. That's good Paul. And so with that being said, I actually think, let's just contextualize this. I'm a resident of the DFW area, specifically of Royce City. And so I think I should

pray prayers of blessing on the places where I live. And so even to pick up, though, and what you were saying is, I'm not going to pray prayers of blessing on places of sin within our city. No, when I want to pray in prayers of blessing, pray in that God would be for us that there would be favor, there'd be economic development, all the things that also His kingdom come and we'll be

And I think that we should. You should do that wherever you live. And, and because God does have

“a special heart for the Jewish people, and since most of them are at least the majority of them”

are in right now, within the state of Israel, I should still do that for Jerusalem and for those people. So it's a both end. Yeah, and I'll pick that up on that. You even see that in the in the

mission strategy, the New Testament. What's it say to the Jew first and then to the Greek? Exactly.

So you even see that that heart reflected in the mythological strategy, the New Testament. We're going to prioritize, trying to bring salvation to the Jews. And then next, we're going to go to all the Gentiles to the Jew first and then to the Greek. Yeah, because by the way, I'll just shout out that is why among like points international partners, guess what we have? We have a Bible believing evangelical Jesus preaching church partner in Jerusalem that is reaching lots of Jews for Jesus Christ

to the Jew first. And then we have 21 other international partners among all the nations then to the Greek. Yeah, that's awesome. We're going to keep going. Really, the God loves some people more because of their DNA. That is not the Christian message. That's the opposite of the Christian message. The Christian message is universal. That's the whole point of it. It shows in people in Christianity are those who choose Jesus. The entire New Testament is that story. And anyone who

says otherwise, why don't I read it? It's the entire New Testament. He's for eating Romans 9 to 11. Like, oh, man, it's like the one thing that is like, you just gotta watch out for this. So Tucker started being like really overt about like, I'm a Christian. Yeah, like two years ago. And now he's like everybody's resident theological expert. You just gotta watch out for that. And it's just as a teaching point is I think of G. K. Testiers and who once said most heresies or an orthodoxy that's lost its counterbalance. Oh. And so like I'm this is an exit because he actually earlier basically accused other people of heresies. What Tucker is doing is he's highlighting all one part of the church. But he's leaving the other part off. So it's actually him that's beginning to wait into heresie. Okay. This is the duty of the moment for us. Let's finish it. Or is lying? Okay. Okay. So what questions do we not answer? Yeah. So here's another one. It's the 1948 founding

of Israel prophetically significant. Let me pull up. Let me pull up the passage. Yep. Yes. 66 verse eight. Yeah. It's hard to type when everybody's staring at you. Okay. There we go. So the reason if you're listening right now. 66. There it is. Okay. The reason if you're listening right now. The reason this is a theological significant question is in a theological system called dispensationalism that we'll talk about actually more on the pod, especially with John Bevere. There is a prophecy in Isaiah 668 that especially people from a dispensational

pre-millennial view of Eskatello. We just, that's a lot of theological words. Sorry. That they view

Isaiah 668 and more people than them do. Basically people that like the left behind movie series.

There we go. That's a good way to say. Good job. They view the following verse as a prophecy that

“was made that was fulfilled in 1948. Here's the verse. Who has ever heard of such things? Who has ever seen things like this?”

Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. Now the reason that people ask this about 1948 is that after World War II ended, I don't have time to go in all the geopolitics of it. But here's the succinct. After World War II in 1948, I think it's called the Balfour Declaration of Armourite. We look that up. Balfour Declaration, BALF-O-U-R. Balfour Declaration is not what I think it is.

It was in 1940, literally in a day. The Declaration of Independence, basically. Boom. In a day.

Yeah. After not existing fourth, I don't know, thousands of years. Israel was re-established as a nation

“state in a day. And then I'm going to tack onto this. And then in 1967, I think it was the six-day war.”

Jerusalem came back under the control of the Jewish people of the Israeli government. So a lot of people look at that and go, man, that was the exact specific fulfillment of Isaiah 668. So back, was it Balfour Declaration? That's correct. That's correct. It's nice when I get one, right? That's true. Did you get the beginning of the spelling, right, too? He did. So the next one, the question is, is that thing that happened in 1948, the founding of Israel

prophetically significant. Basically, that's the Bible, that's the Bible predicted. What do you mean by that?

1900 years of Israel not existing, just like that in the 1900s, it's a nation. What's wrong with

“you, Nick Fuentes? Wow. I'm going to start calling you, Nick, no. I'm not going to call you,”

I'm not going to call you, I'm not going to call you. Yeah, so a few things here. Again, and this is I've already said this multiple times. It depends on what we mean by that. So for example, do you believe that that had to happen for Christ to return? I don't know. No, no, no, no, no, because that's can do anything. Well, but if you say yes, then that puts you in a problem because Jesus and other people in the New Testament make it pretty clear that he could come back

at any time. So if you're saying that had to happen for him to come back, that kind of way, I would object to what you just said because all of that discourse looked 21, they gave you said, nobody know that nobody will know that they are the hour, but they did say, but I'm going to give you enough so that you know the times or seasons. So it's like, hey man, just like a fig tree. When you see that. So I don't think we would ever say that from the moment of Jesus' ascension until now,

nothing had to be fulfilled in order for Jesus returned to be imminent because he gave a science of the season of his return. There had to be something. So obviously, for example, the tearing going, the simple and so like that, but then I would remove it. So then you're telling me from the year 70. So now he could not return because then he talks like the verse is like, oh, I'm going to come like a thief in the knife. So I'll be ready in the moment. Well, if he can't

come back until they're reconstituted, then I don't have to be ready if I'm born in between those years. So point is, as I'd say, if you mean it had to happen for Christ's return, I would say no. But if you mean that it happening could help the mass turning of Jews to Christ happened sooner, then I would say then yes, it could be because if there is going to be a mass conversion, it would seem much more easy for that to happen if they're all located, or at least not all, many

were located in one place. But in God forbid this ever happened. God forbid this ever happened. God forbid this ever happened. And I think this is my own eschatology view. If God forbid the state of Israel ceased to exist in a week, I believe Christ could come back the next day. So in terms of Isaiah 66 a few things. Number one, no one interpreted that way for almost all Christian history. That's a very new novel interpretation that it was about the refounding of the Jewish state. Now here's my objection

to what that is. So what my little counterpoints that is is that it's the, I'm going to read it

when I talk to Bevere here in a second. But it's hang on, hang on. Say that one more time, Paul.

So that would be a very new novel interpretation. So for the first roughly 1800 years of Christian history, Christians would not believe the Jewish state. Yeah, that's actually what I thought was true. Because when this came up recently, I was reading, I think it was, yeah, it was Charles Spurgeon. Charles Spurgeon did believe the nation of Israel had to be read the first 18 years. Oh,

“first 18 years. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's what I said, because actually, I don't get into all”

because I haven't happened yet, right? Well, so a few things. I'm going to give some alternate alternate possibilities, but before you do that, let me finish my point. Yeah, my counterpoint to that is, I love this, by the way. This is a bit, me too. This is helpful. We're going to do it more often.

Yeah. My counterpoint to that is, first Corinthians 2 says that all the prophecies about the

first coming of Jesus were intentionally vague. Yep. So that you couldn't before they happened, you would not, basically, here's the gist of it. You go read it later. It's first Corinthians 2, seven and eight. Actually, I'm going to read it. It says, no, we declare God's wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and the God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age talking about demonic transpalities and powers. I understood it. If they had, they wouldn't

accruesify the Lord of glory. Now, what that's alluding to is that the prophecies about the first coming of Jesus were intentionally vague so that you would not have been able to predict them before they happened. But then after they happened, you would look at it. Yeah, you would look at it and

“go, whoa, dude, that was that thing. Yeah. So I think what I would say to that is, it's okay that”

nobody ever predicts that right in the years. Because the prophecies are frequently written so that you will only recognize them after they have sex. And that is, by the way, good response that specific one. I just, the reason I bring that one up is that I think a lot of street-level evangelical Christians, make I think that this is, oh, this is just the Christian view. Yeah, when actually it's a very new and novel, when it doesn't to your point, that doesn't mean it's

automatically wrong. But it does mean that you shouldn't just swallow it. You at that scale, why did the same people read these same verses and come to very different conclusions? So strongly agree. And so two other possible interpretations for this passage, though. So number one would be, man, was there another people? And in a sense, I guess you could say, oh, you don't know what you're gonna say. That were born in a day in Jerusalem? Oh, wait, yeah,

not either or Paul. Not either or. Well, for listeners, I always want to bring, because, you know,

I don't want to assume, when Paul saying that the church was born in a day, first of all, you're right. He's referring to Acts chapter two, the coming of the Holy Spirit, the birth of the church, Acts chapter two. Yeah. Here's what, hey, what comes before Isaiah 66. Isaiah 65. Exactly, I love that you did. I was really hoping one of you would do really good. I was really,

“I know. I've been doing this for a while. Do you know what's in Isaiah 65 about at the end of it?”

The new heavens and the new earth. Oh, which happens at the very end of Revelation, and then guess what it talks about coming out of heaven, New Jerusalem, New Jerusalem? There you go. That possibility comes in. And what a day. And among what's that theological term where like multiple things can be true at the same time? So there's something that's sometimes to be used. Since this plenier is the idea that there is an inch of plenier. I had to look at me, I'm not liking all of that much. I had to go to the geek thing.

So I think it can have a more of a meeting. Like Psalm 22, my God, my God, why for me. David was talking about himself, but he also didn't know that the Holy Spirit was inspiring him to talk about way more than that. There's also the idea of a telescopic interpretation of a prophecy that there can be multiple fulfillment. And or that it could look like it's all one thing when actually could be multiple things or vice versa. Sorry. Oh, that's great. I think honestly,

“those are really good answers. Here's what we know, man. The Jewish people were scattered for”

1900 years after 8070. No other ancient people in history has returned to its ancestral home land after such a long Excel and maintain its ethnic identity that to me seems like nothing should have

been basically seen. Yeah, and just again for clarity, because I feel like I can come up with this

Debbie down on this. Oh, I could be in this sense of this is what I love about. And this is why, by the way, it's one of the reasons why even though it's a good thing I actually think to point out right now is even though we may come out from different angles or slightly different conclusions. At the same time, we really land a lot of the same place, which this is one reason why we should support the modern state of Israel, because I would say it's profitably significant in that

there is a prophecy at the end of Romans 11 about them being turned. This seems like that is a huge part of it. So yeah, in a sense, we come up from different angles, but we land it a lot of the same spot. Okay, let me we're going to grab one here. I don't know if you're coming in just a minute. That's the church replace Israel. That I don't know. I don't like the way that's worded. That's that's hard super sessionism is what that's called replacement theology. That oh,

now Israel doesn't matter anymore at all. There are no in no sense. Does God have an affection for the Jewish people that church completely replace that? The problem with that is it's Romans 11. Again, it's Romans 9 to 11. You just you have specific promises about the ethnic descendants of Abraham. And again, the whole argument of Romans is God's promises don't fail. No. And so I would say no, does not completely replace. It doesn't replace it expands. It expands. It's like,

it's infested in, grafted in. It's as grafted in not canceled or removed or replaced it. Let me read Ephesians to us. We have a few verses, but stick with me. It's really important.

“Therefore, remember that at one time, you gentile. So this is Paul's ball talking to Gentiles.”

Gentiles in the flesh, in other words, by ethnicity. Remember that you are at one time separated from Christ alienated from the common wealth of what Israel and strangers the covenants of promise, having no faith in without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus, you were her once far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. Now get this for he himself is our peace who has made us both one one. And so I would say church does not replace

Israel. It expands it in the sense that now the people of God are not just people who are Jewish and descent and who believe, but also Gentiles. We're actually believers. A lot of people. Is it a common Catholic view, I believe? I think there's been some, yeah. I think the Catholics believe that the Jews are, quote, "sign people." I do know that. It's also like, I come from like, reformed theological world and among hard, reformed, team,

hard supersetionism is common. Yeah. It is common. The other thing I would say in response to this and then we can rapid fire more questions is, I'll give you another one, Acts chapter one. The Apostles go, "Hey Jesus, will you at this time restore the kingdom of Israel?" His response is not, "Oh, hey man, hey dummies, Israel didn't matter anymore." He goes, "No, you're going to receive power in the Holy Spirit. It comes on you and you have been willing.

This is in Jerusalem, GDS, America, and the NCO." So, I just, there's no, no, the answer is not.

Yeah, so Eastern Orthodox Church, generally yes, they believe that Roman Catholic Church historically have believed that that was the mainstream view apparently. Lutheran churches historically, yes, although just for clear, they would not say that they, they would not

by people that are more pre-millennial dispensationless. Last question. All right, Judaism is a false religion and it has nothing to do with Christianity. It depends which, I would say, it depends which kind. There are, that's where people say it. I'm not saying it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. You're asking. It depends which kind. There are forms of like Talmudic Judaism and even I'm not aware enough to answer this intelligently, so I'll speak broadly.

There are forms of Talmudic Judaism and things like that that are, are stinking nasty. Like they're nasty, nasty, nasty, nasty. That, I'd be like, yep, no, no, no, and let me go back to what we said earlier. No, no, this is why Jesus said the Judaism epoch of history done.

“So, a Jewish, again, just want to keep saying this, man, the only way to be saved is faith in”

Jesus Christ. What I would say to your question is it depends which kind. Okay, so that nasty, demonic forms of like Talmudic Judaism out. If you're talking about like faithfully practiced Old Testament Orthodox type Judaism, I think the better way to say it is that it's not a false religion, but it's a fulfilled and obsolete one. What do you think? Is that a good way to say that? Yeah, that's exactly how it would say it. I mean, I literally, that was going to say it's a

fulfilled. So I would say it's not saving. It is not salvific. So in that sense, it is, you know, it's, I think distinguishing a few things here. One is, when we, when we use the word false religion,

to me it carries the idea of, this is the completely wrong God. And it's practices that were never

instituted by God. Whereas we would say the Jews, worship Yahweh, and we do too. The practices were instituted by God, but to your point, they've been fulfilled. So the reason I say it that was, I would never want to equate Judaism with Islam or any of the other world religions. It's different. It's a fulfilled religion. The second thing I think in this, let me just go ahead. You're, what's, here's why that's important. You'll see some people be like, "Hey, man,

because Judaism is not saving. We should oppose Judaism in the same way that we oppose Islam." What I would say is, "Hey, both of them are non-self-iffic, like you go over there, and yeah, you're going to end up in hell. Yep, I'm going to shoot straight. Yep, you are." But man, they're not symmetrically evil. It's like, there's a radical asymmetry between the worldwide effects of these two things. Yeah, the political Judaism is the root from which Christianity grew. Islam came 600 years

later, basically, the nine, the core elements of Christianity, the nicer crucifixion, the

resurrection, the divinity of Jesus, the Trinity. The need for a Tommy through Jesus' death and a reliability of the New Testament as we have it. Very different. And by the way, there were early Jewish Christians re-romance, who they were not practicing the sacrifices or anything like that, but they were actually still practicing part of the Old Testament law. They just didn't believe they say they were

“still practicing their faith in Jesus. So we got to be really careful that. The only thing I'd say”

here in this conversation, because it's another example of how we conflate two things. I'll do this fast. We do when these conversations had to be careful not to conflate all Jews with the practice of Judaism. Of the 74th. That's important. Of the Israeli population that is Jewish half or secular. Yeah, they're mostly atheists. 20 to 25% are very active, but another 20 to 25% are mainly only nominal. Maybe like their version of Christians, kind of a thing, Christmas Easter, only Christians.

And so I think we do need to be careful to not conflate those two things. That's the only other thing I would add on there. The last thing I'd say on this is we're going to link to it in the show notes. There's a lot of like just like misinformation or wild exaggerations or like a one side, almost like cherry picking of data to exaggerate the evil of Israel and kind of like

that kind of thing. First of all, I will say this. Let me pull this up real quick. Let me just

I will say this. There are two verses in the book of Zechariah that are eschatological that are in times verses that seem to clearly indicate that one of the signs of the end times is an escalation in hatred of the Jewish people. I'm just going to throw that out there. This is Zechariah 123. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem and a movable rock for all the nations and those who try to move it will

injure themselves and in Zechariah 142. I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem.

“So a lot of Bible scholars are pointing to go, "Hey man, one thing you need to watch out for is that's”

going to be a sign of the end." Is an escalation in hatred of the Jewish people? What you're kind of seeing in some spaces, though, that we have not seen it before. Absolutely. Now, the last thing I just want to say is we'll link to it in the show notes. There's a lot of misinformation like you watch. Go watch the comments on this pot. You're going to see bots. You're going to see bots out the, you know, what would out your ears.

like you're going to see that stuff. So, by the way, I'm still waiting for that check.

“So, I'm pretty sure that we did it like in your experience. Yeah, that's right.”

So, we're going to link to it in the show notes. Jeremy Boring, Smart Dude, Evangelical Christian, he just put out a 20-minute video kind of going, like, here's a really

“popular on social media accusation about Israel or about our relationship with Israel.”

And here's what's actually true. And it's very fair-minded in its all data.

We're going to link to it in the show notes. So, if you're like a super nerd that's like

“aware of this conversation, you need to go watch it. That's amazing. We have John Bevere coming up next,”

stay tuned. Well, hey, guys, thanks for checking out this live free episode. Hey, we had John Bevere coming in as a guest for this episode to continue the conversation around the end times, but the conversation was so good. It went extra long. And so, we didn't want to show it down.

So, here's what we're going to do. We're going to release this special segment with John Bevere

as its own full episode later this week on Wednesday, April 15th. And so, we'll have a special episode with Pastor Josh and John Bevere to discuss end times what the Bible actually says about

Christ's second return. And how as Christians, we can be prepared for the second coming of Jesus.

It will be great. And we're also going to be answering your questions submitted on social media around this topic. Trust me, you do not want to miss it. We will see ya then. [BLANK_AUDIO]