SHROUD OF TURIN: Physical EVIDENCE for the Body of JESUS!? (ft. Dr. Jeremiah Johnston) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

And if you really give me your life, you can really change your forever. I did my PhD on the resurrection. I've published 300,000 words on the resurrection. I was conditioned to be a skeptic on the shroud.

“And now, I believe the shroud is authentic, Pastor Josh,”

because I'm not irrational. [MUSIC PLAYING] Well, hey, Liffree Nation. Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Late Point Church in Dallas, Texas.

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what God is doing here at Late Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now, enjoy the podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. Welcome to episode number 69 of Liffree with Jeremiah Johnson.

We are really excited. They're excited to be here tonight. Thank you, guys. So for people who are unaware of what's about heaven, I seriously think this is going to be the most interesting episode

of Liffree we've ever done.

And I'll explain why here in a second.

We're going to go full Indiana Jones. Let's go. This is episode. This is like the Vinci code meets Nicolas Cage, national treasure meets Indiana Jones.

But without the heresy. That's right. That's right. Thank you. I don't have a third content price.

That's how it feels. That's right. That's right. OK, so here's my lead-in. And if you're listening, when I say this sentence,

if you roll your eyes, I'm asking you to stay with me. We're getting ready to spend like an hour talking about the shroud of turntlets go. OK, so let me just set this up. I literally just saw this two days ago.

Scroll on X.

“And there's a new-- I think it was a news week.”

They do this article on like, what did Jesus really look like? Right. And they do this every Easter. And it looks like a Neanderthal of the somebody truth. Exactly.

Yeah, in seventh grade. And so here's the question, what if we actually already know what Jesus looked like, because of what you're about to walk us through? Not only that, Jesus took the first selfie.

We're about to check it out. My 15-year-old daughter will be delighted. And it was powerful. It was a powerful selfie. I'm very excited.

Have you finished on it? Yes. A big time-flow. I have a flashback. Yeah, there you go.

OK, so let me set this up. And then, honestly, I want you to do this truck. So this is a special pre-easter episode that I think is going to boost encourage people's faith in the resurrection.

Signive one thousand per second.

OK, so let me set up why you're here and why I would never

have had you come talk about this 12 months ago. So no joke, this true story dude. So last Easter, leading up to Easter, getting ready to just sort of debrief. It was a sunny night of finished operation.

And I was like, I'm a listen to a podcast. A thumbnail pops up for me of you on the Michael Null Show. And it was about the shroud of turnt. And no joke, dude. We'll talk about this in a second.

I'm team Protestant. So I'm like, oh man, relics. And that's like a Catholic. I'm super skeptical.

“And I see the thumbnail on I'm like, who hoodwanked Nulls?”

Yeah. That's here's the one I thought. So then I click it. I'm like, what crack pie hoodwanked Nulls? You start talking and dude, no joke.

I'm 20, 30 minutes in. I'm like, holy crap. This guy, there may be something to this. So, special pre-easter at Episodlifree, bishop Jeremiah, can we just, let's just start right here.

Okay. Because it live free. It's a bunch of normal bits. Yep. Let's start right here.

Quick introduction for people who have no idea what we're talking about, what's the shroud of turnt. The shroud of turnt is believed to be the actual burial cloth that Joseph of Varamathy and Nicodemus used to wrap the crucify and brutalized dead corpse of Jesus in on Friday, April 3rd, 80, 33.

Wow, that was very specific. Wow. Actually, can I can't click on something? Yep. Friday, April 3rd, 80, 33, Nissan, 14, how are you getting that specific day?

It's amazing. Well, it's because the resurrection and the crucifixion of Jesus is the best established fact of the ancient world. If we cannot believe that Jesus died by Roman crucifixion on Friday, April 3rd, 80, 33, based on the lunar calendar, Nissan, 14, 3, 500 years.

The Jews always celebrated Passover at the time.

The tourists said they should based on the two opportunities that Nissan, 14, could have occurred during Pontius Pilots reign 26 to 36 AD.

80, 30, 80, 33. Let's say that. Let's say that. Let's say that. Let's say that.

Let's say that. Let's say that. Let's say that. We know the dates of Pontius Pilots reign on November 3rd, 36 AD. There's only two times the lunar calendar aligns with Passover.

We're on that Friday that Jesus could have possibly been crucified during his ministry. There's two great options, actually. Friday, April 7, 80, 30. I'm more convinced that it's Friday, April 3rd, 80, 33.

“For a variety of reasons that I get into, but without a doubt, it's the best thing about”

that. I do. It's the best. But the point is, if we can't believe that Jesus died on that Friday and rose again on Sunday, April 5th, which, by the way, is this Sunday, April 5th?

Isn't that ironic? Let's go. Wow. So April 5th, 80, 33 is the day of the resurrection. We know from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory that sunrise was 5.43 a.m. on that morning.

We could go ahead and do that. Well, when the women go to the tomb, they're going there early. They're following Jewish burial traditions. They're going to continue spicing the body. We'll get into why they're doing that.

And they're astonished because the tomb is empty. And they run to tell everybody about it.

And that's when we have this amazing sprint.

I love that the Bible talks smack. I love that John wants you to know that he's much faster than this one here. He takes two in Aaron versus in God's will to say, when the guy finally got there, we went into the tomb. And they see, if you follow the chronology in John 20, this is where the Bible is so awesome.

I've read it a hundred times. I'm a historical Jesus scholar, but I was humbled. I felt like Nicodemus, when Jesus looks at him and said, "You're the teacher of this. I don't know you haven't seen this, you don't know these things. I did my PhD on the resurrection.

I've published 300,000 words on the resurrection. I was a complete, I was conditioned to be a skeptic on the shroud." So, I feel like the intro, I'm just mirroring you because I'm chuckling to myself. I've been through all of those things.

“And now, I believe the shroud is authentic, Pastor Josh, because I'm not irrational.”

Okay? Because I'm not irrational. That's right. So, all right, to lead this in, because I want to get some of this stuff that went not hurt at the first time, I'm legitimate.

I'm upstairs in my little paying out room. Everyone's about to get shrouded pill. Dude, it's in, you know, talk to him right now.

Here's what we're going to do.

Let me, for people who are listening, here's what we're going to do. We're going to let Doc Jeremiah do his thing. And then what I'm going to do, and he told me before the podcast, not to tell him what objections I'm going to throw at him. So, you can do your thing.

And then throw out. And then throw out. Yeah, anyways, I know. So, not had to help from research or also. So, I'm going to throw it to you.

The strongest objections to the legitimate thing. I'll see what you do. So, there are, talk about real quick for people who are unfamiliar, which I have Bible verses about the burial class. Yeah.

Reference those are real quick. So, people know what you're about to do. So, what we're doing here is not anti-biblical. It's in the Bible. It's fascinating to me that all four gospels, we have 89 chapters in the gospels.

All four gospels lead up.

One third of those 89 chapters are about what happened that Easter weekend.

And they all mentioned the evidential detail that there were burial clots. Matthew Marken-Luke used the term "ethonia," which is exactly what's behind me right now. What people are looking at. A fine linen burial cloth, a herringbone weave. John's gospel comes along and gives us two other details.

It talks about the sudarium, which is the face cloth that they disciples find in the corner of the tomb. And then, right. And then, we also hear the strips of linen. So, that excuse me is Athonia, "Sendon is what's in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John."

Let me be clear. "Sendon is Matthew, Mark, and Luke." John is Athonia and sudarium. So, we have three different terms for burial used in the gospels. All four gospels make a very specific point that chronologically speaking, when John saw

the linen cloths lying there, he saw and believed. So, that's my hope for the payoff of the broadcast today.

“You mean, like John did he not believe before that?”

Oh, no. He was a follower of Jesus. So, when he saw the shroud, he really believed. Okay. So, that's the payoff of this broadcast, watching it all the way through is your faith

is going to be strengthened and you're going to have a measurable strength. You're going to have a first Corinthians 15, 57, 58 experience based on this broadcast. I promise you. Okay. All right.

So, let's get into it. Oh, it's biblical. All right. What am I looking at? Okay.

And why do you think this thing's legit? I think it's legit because first off, the shroud of turn, I was utterly skeptical of it. Until I actually bother to get past the soundbites and look at the substance. So, I had heard about this flash. My doctor father Craig Evans, who's probably the finest Jesus scholar in the English-speaking

world, 700 publications on Jesus, he begins to tell me about the shroud. And he's like, Jeremiah, we can't quantify the amount of power. You should really look into this. Then my pastor, Jack Graham, on a Friday morning, we love the hologram. We love him.

He's the OG. He tells me on a Friday morning men's Bible study, after I'd been kind of tinkering

And he said, "Well, get up and just share what you're learning."

“And guys, then I was like, "There's video this."”

I was like, "No, I'm not going to stake my academic reputation on this." But let me just share what I'm learning. But here's something for all the dudes watching. I'm looking out there at the time of my son, Justin. I have four boys, one daughter, Justin my son, who, to get him to talk about football or

Xbox or girls for anything more than one sentence is an impossibility. He is locked in spiritually. Okay. And I'm just sharing about the resurrection and all the facts of the shroud. And I'm watching my, this is a 630 AM Bible study.

I'm watching my 11-year-old son and it is impacting him. And I was like, "Brother, I will go all over the world to research this." If it gets you excited about your faith, good job again. So then, I'm in Jerusalem. I'm filming a series and I've been in more tombs than anyone you've ever met.

In fact, I was laughing today because I was in a tomb in Amaz and the producers, I hope it won't mess the audio. They do this.

And I thought, "What are you clapping for?"

And I was like, "Oh, we're scaring the snakes away. You need to do this in one take." [laughter] No, it was at the end. It was at the end of John.

So I'm filming.

“I had a day off and I go to the Estonia Museum and I see some of the show and tell them”

about to show your audience in YouTube. By the way, we don't know what's coming. Yeah. So I'm very excited. It takes my breath away.

No one's there. And it turns out that the Holy Spirit is really good at this job. And it literally takes my breath away. And I have an experience with the Lord that it's now the best of evangelism.

What we're looking at behind me is the best of evangelism to discipleship tool I have ever used in seeing in my life. So we're looking at a burial cloth. We're looking at, and this is typical. We have hundreds of burial claws from the land of Jesus, which is Jerusalem with.

We even have a burial shroud from the tomb of the shroud. People can search this up. There were Bible deniers that said that the Bible was false because Hanson's disease wasn't around in the time of Jesus. Well, guess what?

The tomb of the shroud. So airtight that when we discovered it 20 years ago, it actually has flesh on it, hair on it and it has Hanson's disease on it. And it's dated from the time of Jesus showing that there really was less. You said the tomb of the shroud that we discovered 20 years ago.

What is that? That's just another shroud tomb. We have so many different shrouds of different ones. I'm just making the point that we have lots of shrouds. We still find those.

We still find them. And this one actually had leprosy on it proving that Jesus really did. This one? No, the one, the tomb of the shroud. I'm just giving the example.

We have shrouds at Massada where you've been. Lots of shrouds at Massada. And so what's unique about the shroud of turn is that it has an image of a brutalized crucified man that has complete correspondence with the crucifixion narratives that are embedded in the gospels. I'll walk me through it.

And by the way, this is it. This is it. This is this is that one. This is a one that wealth. The exact one is an a reliquary in turn.

But this one comes from Stera from my friend Barry Wall. She's now deceased. He literally did the TED talk on the shroud. So we acquired based on our really good friendship. I acquired this from his organization.

And now we use this as this tool. And so what you're looking at that's 14 feet wide. By about three feet, seven inches. And this is it's matches. It's it's a one to one scale.

And it matches. No one else was crucified in the Roman Empire the way Jesus is. This is the crazy thing. The blood type. That's on it. Two Jewish hematologists studied the blood held with an abler.

They're Jews. They don't have a theological axe to grind. It's type A B blood. It's human blood. And the reason the blood is still read 2,000 years ago is because this blood has been traumatized.

It's from a traumatized individual that when you're experiencing torment and trauma, you're read blood cells break down and create extra bilirubin.

“They secrete it and that's what's kept the blood read all of these years.”

And there's blood all over the shroud. Type A B blood is Semitic blood less than 6% of the world's population has it. If there is ever a priestly line of blood, it'd be Type A B blood. So it's human blood. It's not animal blood.

It's blood from a traumatized person. I read a recent hematological report. The blood itself has high levels of ferritin. And it, which means the crucified man was experiencing organ failure. Kidney failure. We believe he lost 1/3 of his blood volume during the flogging.

And it's high level of creatinine. He was dying. So again, if you were to hold it from the blood sample. Just from the blood sample and the fibers. These are published in academic journals.

So here's the bottom line.

102 academic disciplines of study the shroud. 600,000 hours of scientific research. And I believe the shroud is authentic based on their research because I'm not irrational. They all cannot explain how there's an image in the shroud. So the walk's like a duck, quacks like a duck.

It might be a duck. So like, you know, you've kind of dipped your tongue on the water here. It's our walk me through everything, this here. Okay. That makes people go through that may have been the, that is.

Well, and then what's the theory on how the image got on there? There's all this stuff. And also, I want to pull up. I have a 13 second video from C.S. Lewis's bedroom. I had lived in Oxford. I did my doctorate there.

I'd been to the, been to the kilns numerous times. And I took my pastor there recently.

And I had never, because again, I didn't care about the show out.

So maybe I saw it. Maybe I didn't care less at the time. Well, during all of this phase of research, we literally go in to C.S. Lewis's bedroom. And we have a Lewis scholar who is guiding us.

And they take us into C.S. Lewis's bedroom. And he had a fire. It's a very modest bedroom, by the way. The entire place. And above the mantle of the fireplace is the picture of the man of the shroud.

Yeah. And I asked the question.

“I said, tell me about this, because I mean, Lewis is no Catholic, right?”

And think about it. He dies in the 1960s. He has on raise photo, which is 1931, I think. The next, that was like high res for its time in the 1930s. And she said, oh, yeah.

In fact, if we have the video, it would be cool to pull it up. This is 13 seconds. This is 13 seconds. This is me. This is a C.S. Lewis scholar.

We're in his bedroom right now. You guys. He says that I literally pulled out my iPhone. I said, wait a minute, you got to say that again. Wait, is that the wardrobe?

Probably. It's like. So, Lewis kept an image of the shroud of chairman about his mantle pieces. A reminder that I got how to face the incarnation of the incarnation. Wow.

Here it is. We're in the gallery right now. Lewis kept the S. Lewis. An image of the shroud. So, every morning, his feet hit the ground.

He knew our God as a face.

“For people watching this, there would be like, well, that photo doesn't look like this photo.”

Can you explain that for people? Yeah, so in 1898, you guys. Photographies invented in the 1840s. It's not. There's no professional photography in 1898.

A Christian man by the name of Sikandopea decides he wants to take a picture of the shroud.

We'd always known there was an image on it throughout church history.

But dude, something happened in the dark room. So, this is before Celluloid film. This is before the days we could take pictures on our phones. I've seen the actual camera in turn. It looks like a dorm fridge.

It's massive. Glass plates, okay? The exposures took 14 minutes and 20 minutes each. There was no electricity. I've been in the Saint Giovanni cathedral.

The Saint John cathedral where the shroud is to this day. He builds a scaffolding. Takes a picture. Goes in the dark room. In the dark room, he sees the image of Jesus' face,

which he believes he's the first human being looking at the face of Jesus since the apostolic era. And never more appropriately says, "Oh, my God." Yeah. And then literally, "Oh, my God."

And then he develops it.

“He's immediately accused of being a fraudster, a hoaxster.”

And I've seen the actual photo. And that's what's crazy is. The photo negative is actually the photo positive. When you take a picture of the shroud, when you invert your phone camera,

you see it in all of its rich and amazing detail.

And we actually have. I can show you on our slides here. We actually have an image of it. So this is what we have behind us. And then in the dark room, you see on the right.

On the right is actually the photo positive. The negative is the photo positive. And this is where all of the details come out in striking fashion. So star walking me through, because I'm a dumb Kentucky kid.

No. It just looks like a bunch of triangles in line. What am I looking at? What makes us go, this is Jesus. So what makes us go, this is Jesus.

The image itself corresponds with all the ways in which we know Jesus was crucified. We see a man who has been crucified and pierced with actual nails in the right spot through his wrists, not through his palms of his hands.

That's medieval Christian art that messed us all up. We see on the right. We see on the right. You can see the wrist cross. Yes, literally.

And then we, I mean, I don't want to get too technical. But even the way the blood is flowing, arterial and venous blood flow matches how he died on the cross. So the way the blood is flowing on his arms

is the way in which it should if you were actually crucified. There's blood at the bottom, and then behind me as well, where the feet are crucified through the cow cannaeus, literally right through the heel bones. And that matches again, what we have of like

another Yehohan and poor soul, crucified under Pontius Pilate. We actually have this heel bone and the nail going through it in the Israel and Tiquities Museum. So all of this is exactly how the Romans killed

and executed non-citizens in the first century, especially in the Syrian province of Jerusalem. Keep going though, we have a side wound. So the triangles itself, let's go to the next slide too. If we can, the triangles itself.

So I want you to see this. The triangles are just patches. The shroud has amazingly survived five different fires. There's scorch marks on it.

So you have to deal with two things.

“You have to deal with all the contact marks on the shroud.”

But then you actually see the image, which will get to this selfie. But I want you to see the side wound, which if we go back to the vertical image, if we can, I want to show Pastor Josh and Carlos.

So look at that. Do you see the left side? Right next to the triangle. The inner triangle on the upper left. There is a fluorescent almost figure eight.

Do you see that? Yeah, I do. That is the right of the triangle. Yep. On the upper upper torso of Jesus.

On the left side. Yep. Okay. Do you see that? So it's the left side.

You can see that. Yep. And what is that?

That is the side wound through rib five and six.

Jesus is quite high. Holy cow. Hold this. What is this guy? This is a replica that we had made.

It's not an artifact, it's an actual replica of the spear. That would have pierced Jesus through rib five and six. And guess what? It matches with one to one correspondence.

“Why does the man of the shroud have a piercing through rib five and six?”

That blood is post-mortem blood on the shroud. The hematologist published it. Really? That blood is different than all the other blood on the shroud. John's gospel says blood and water comes out.

Yeah. Serum albutim. I'm probably saying it wrong. His already separated front because I'm not pretending to be a hematologist. His already separated from the blood in that spot alone.

And that blood's different than anything. Yeah, because it's post-mortem blood. Okay. So was it common? I know obviously Jesus was stabbed on the side.

It's not a common known. It's crucifixion with the colleagues. That's right. Okay. So this was unique for Jesus.

Which again, you start looking at the probabilities. There's no broken bones on the man of the shroud. Now I want to be careful. He has a separated septum. That's he definitely has a broken nose.

But no bones broke. That's just simply like cartilage. So no broken bones on the man of the shroud. Which by the way, for listeners, that was prophesied. Exactly.

Exactly. That was the prophecy that told us. Let's keep going. Yeah, just keep this going. These are heavy by the way.

Yes. Hold this. All right. You've got, and this took my breath away.

“I think it's John 191, but I know it's John 19.”

And pilot had Jesus flogged. Pastors, we go right by that verse so quickly. And it's like we didn't even read it. Jesus is flogged with that raw hide. And remember, the Jews had a rule 40, less is minus one.

Rome had no such rule. And I am an expert in execution. So I know how dastardly. I mean, these guys would often be drunk. Poor antagonists who we have remains from in Jerusalem.

He was crucified and then decapitated. And they were so drunk. They got the chops wrong on his head a few times. So we actually have evidence. And the Bible says that Jesus is flogged.

That Pontius pilot has him flogged. And do you see these barbells? We've actually counted up the amount of shredding the amount of lashes. There's 372 lashes on the man of the shred. On that front and back, 372 total.

But keep in mind, Pastor Josh, we don't have the side. We don't have the lateral sides. Because when Jesus resurrects, it's an image of the moment. He literally path, we'll get to this through the shroud. We don't have the side angles.

And so we can estimate 700 of these hit the man's body. And that's where he loses one third of his blood volume. And I want you to see how short that is. Oh, no way. There is a really demonic intimacy to how Jesus is tortured.

And we know there were two. There were two. One was hit. The other one was cocking back to fire each time. Then they turn them around.

There's gashes. You know that what you just said from the shroud or from a historical show. A historical source is both. They correspond.

So but what I had never seen before was an actual.

This is a phlegrum. This is a Roman whip called a phlegrum. So that matches being flogged. And we know that he endures that most died. 60% of the criminals just died at that point.

So the strength of the man. What I like about Jesus, he's a man's man. He's five foot 10 to five foot 11. weighs 170 to 180 pounds. This is a very physically fit man.

A lot of walking. A lot of walking. Probably swinging a hammer. 20,000 miles in his ministry. Probably walking.

If you count all the times he went to Jerusalem. But it doesn't end there. So Jesus is flogged. And all of this matches. We're all we're doing is we're comparing.

We're almost doing a wears wall do right now. Okay. What is the Bible saying? And what do we see signature on the shroud? There's another thing that blew my mind.

We already have your mind blown. I'm already mad. Max Frey, a criminologist. Literally studied all of the pollen on the shroud. Okay.

It's Passover, right? It's Easter time.

We're all well pollen on our vehicles, especially here in Texas.

And he studied the pollen samples. 38 of the 58 pollen spores on the shroud. Only bloom in Jerusalem in springtime. What? The other party.

Are you kidding me? Dude, it's truth is stranger than fiction. Okay. So again, you start at-- Say that one more time.

38 of the 58 pollen spores on the shroud that Max Frey, a criminal, a criminologist, studied. And as a whole respected career as a criminologist, spent five years of his life studying the pollen. Okay. Five years of his life. They only bloom in springtime in the land of Israel.

So if you're a hoax or how would you know that?

“If you're a hoax or how would you know type A B blood?”

How would you--you would have to torture and crucify a Semitic man and then do it exactly how the Bible says. Then you'd have to rub the shroud through Jerusalem on Easter weekend at the time that all these plants are growing. You're starting to see why the evidence, the most explanatory power, shows that it is Jesus's grave close. Jesus. We have the moment of resurrection. We actually may have scientific proof of the moment of Jesus's resurrection left on the shroud.

Holy cow. Okay. Is there-- I got questions. Is there anything else you're like, hey man, I want to call attention to this? We're just getting started here.

Okay. He's gone, idiot. There's more. There's more. Hold this.

Very few people have held this. This is no replica. This we just acquired. And this is an actual first century crucifixion out. I'm not saying it's the one he's on.

Jesus will be very clear. But this was used to crucify enemies of Rome, slaves, non-citizens in the Syrian province. Do you see how it's bent, Carlos and Josh? Yeah.

“What I had to learn through research was the nails were far more valuable than the crucified victims.”

They would use the nails again and again and again. Do you know why it's bent? I just did it from multiple use. Multiple use, but not only multiple use, oftentimes they would want to minimize movement, but maximize torment. And they would adjust the nails of the crucified victims while they were dying and being crucified.

Can you imagine the agony? And so over time, this nail has been bent from usage, but also from torturing. And Colossians, 2014, I love this, you guys. Paul says that Jesus took all of our indebtedness.

All the debt we could never pay back.

Any nail to the cross. So we don't bear that chamomile man. So I can bring all the faith lessons in with these. And what do we see on the shroud? We see four piercings on the shroud, two in the wrist, two in the heel bones.

And that's exactly what you're holding in your hand. So that's a first century crucifixion nail. First century crucifixion nail from Rome. From Jerusalem. From Jerusalem.

And it has a square shaft. So without a doubt, it's first century. And it matches another. Anyone can look this up.

“You can pull up the crucified victim called Yeho Hanen John.”

Who is crucified under Pontius Pilate. We actually have his heel bone. We have on all of wood actually washer. These guys were experts. Yeah.

Can you imagine? So it'd be through the wrist. And then for anyone out there's like, well, the Bible says hands. Or it's all the same Greek word. Forearm hands.

It's just like an MBA. Yeah. Let me get him on the wrist. Exactly. Same thing.

Thank you. Great analogy. So it matches the heel bone crucifixion nail that we have. And the Israel Antiquities Museum. Six inches long.

And just imagine that. Geez. That's so overwhelming. I didn't know you had that. And it's, yeah, it is overwhelming.

And it should be. But guys, we can't stop there. What else do we see? On the shroud. There are 30 to 50 puncture wounds on the head, the scalp, the back of the head.

Can you see those up there? Yes. You can. In fact, we have a slide that's really clear. That guy.

Yeah, I pulled that one up. That's helpful. And then we actually have one with red where I've actually made it red. But this is this all of the blood fluoresces, which is fascinating to me. It actually fluoresces.

And so what you're looking at is all of the blood on the forehead. There's blood, you know, literally in his hair, all of his face. That's the broken nose. This is like a rendering of it. And so this can go back on the shroud.

Based on the shroud and the sudarium, the face cloth. And so that's perfect.

So that one is amazing to me.

Is that all right if I look around? Look back here. And force dude. Right here. I'm going to invert my phone.

Like literally right there. Yeah, so let me let me do something right now. And any one of you can do this.

But if you have a.

There's other churches for you.

It's like point now.

“But if you have an Android, it's colors.”

It's color inversion for Android. But I don't have an Android. I'm going to do settings. You guys do this with me. All right.

So what do I go to? Just settings. Settings. All right. And I have the update.

I'm just going to type classic invert in general. Okay. Do you see under search? Yeah. Under classic classic invert invert.

And it'll bring up. Yeah. And then just press that button. Your camera will do that. Where your phone will do that.

Turn it on. Right there. Turn it on. Okay. Now open your camera.

All right. Look at the shroud. Oh, wow. And see how it pops. But what I wanted to point out was the back.

What the heck? What the heck? I had no idea. That's amazing. Wow.

That's like, wait. Can they see this? Can we get this on camera somehow? Yeah. There you go.

You can see. Oh, look at you. You can see my head. Yeah. This is what's the condo PSC's in the dark room and says,

Oh, my God. But what I want you to look at guys is the back of the head. All the blood on the back of the head. That's the back of the head. This is the back.

Yeah. That's the front.

“Because remember it covers him like a petal bit.”

He's laid. And then it's laid over. I see it. There is blood all over the head. So if Jesus was wearing a wreath of corn of thorns or a sweat band of thorns,

you would not expect to see there's more blood on this head. Perhaps than anywhere else, which is shocking to me. We think actually when he was flogged, they probably blinded one of his eyes because one of the eyes is literally. I had a dentist email me other day claiming you can even see his teeth,

which is fascinating. I haven't looked into that yet. Somebody probably shouldn't. But this is so that let's follow the chronology since it's Easter weekend. Jesus is brought before Pilate.

Pilate has him flogged. That's not enough. And then he, they fashioned a crown of thorns and they put it on his head. Now I have again a PhD in these things.

And I have never seen a crown of thorns until three years ago in Jerusalem.

I brought one to show you guys. Oh, come on. This is a replica. Wow. This, when I was speaking at the World Economic Forum on the shroud, not lying.

If I'm lying, I'm dying. My lips to God's ears. I'm speaking and I've blood all over my hand. I was wondering why everyone was looking at me. Well, the replica I have had pierced my hand.

Really? Yeah, so I mean, this is just a replica. Wow. Wow. Okay.

Oh, it looks heavy. That is a helmet of thorns, friends. Oh, this is what. So that is what they would have fashioned. And that is 30 to 50 puncture marks that we see on the crucified man of the shroud.

And that's how he received those. They would have fashioned that. Rammed it on his head. And then brought him before the crowd. And that's where Pontius Pilate and Latin we would have heard at show homo.

The man. And if I'm really being honest, all of us would have yelled crucify him at that point. No one would be saved this man. We would be in that crowd yelling crucify this man. There might as any other historical source that portrays the crown of thorns like this. Because I know historically, you know, people picture more like a,

like a resumption of all kinds of evil Christian art. Like the feminist Jesus, the gay looking Jesus, the Jesus would no beer, that all comes out of medieval Christian art. Not a Jewish man who was killed like we see in the shroud, which we'll look at some images in a minute. But here's the faith lesson. All of us wonder sometimes if God really loves us.

And we can get so desensitized to the cross. Romans 5A is what the Holy Spirit, when I saw this for the first time, but God demonstrated his love for you and me. And it's in the continuous. It's one of the two places in the New Testament.

God keeps demonstrating his love for us. And that when we were sinners, he sent his best to die for us.

Here's what I would say too.

“You know, some people wonder why would Jesus wear crown of thorns?”

They want to humiliate the man. He's claiming to be king of the Jews. They will humiliate him in every way. Genesis also says that when Adam and Eve this will be God, a curse fell on humanity and because of our sin,

creation was filled with thorns in this world. And Genesis 3. And then so thorns became a sign of judgment. And so at the cross, what we see is that that judgment was carried literally on Jesus's head. And so what that means is that the cross, our curse became Jesus's crown.

And so he willingly took thorns on him. And when I'm seeing this, man, I'm just reminded that what the curse broke, Jesus can restore.

Well, I see that.

And I'm thinking of the fact that I have four sons.

And I wouldn't give my four sons for anyone. And God knows me like no one else. He knows what a sinner I am. And he sent his best for me. He didn't send his worst.

He sent his best. And so anytime I doubt if God loves me today, I think of these thorns and God is demonstrating it even now. What people are watching this podcast.

“And that's why people need to share this with somebody who's hurting right now.”

Wow. Keep walking. Keep walking. People aren't going to see this guy. He's a lot to take in, man.

It's a lot to take in, man. It's a lot to take in. So it's, it's, so then Jesus is crucified. He's, he can't make it to the cross as we know. So he, he's brutalized so bad.

And, and, and one thing I love the passion of the Christ, the myth of the film.

But one thing it gets wrong is they show Jesus carrying the entire cross.

There's no way any of, man could carry that. So he just carries what's called the continuum, the cross beam. And the crazy thing is, beyond the abrasion, beyond the, the lashes on the back.

We actually have a diagonal right top right to left abrasion. We're from him top the right shoulder down to the left. Literally the same abrasion marks from him carrying his cross. That's visible on the shroud. Wow.

Yes. And Jesus. I remember when I was on Pierce Morgan. He was trying to catch me in a question that a lot. Maybe you're going to ask it.

Well, his body anatomically is all messed up. Why is, why are his arms so long? Hmm. And man, Psalm 22 is just washing over me right now. He said my bones are out of joint.

David says that prophetically.

“And I think it's at that point when he's carrying the cross.”

That his shoulders are separated even before he's nailed to the cross. Because he can't handle it anymore. You, I'll just go ahead and say it. You did beat me to the punch. Okay.

So one of the things I was going to throw at you. I'm just going to read it. Yeah. And if there's anything you missed, just say here's one of the objections. Yeah.

Is people say, man, there's artistic and anatomical issues. I'm going to read it. Okay. The image reflects characteristics more consistent with an artistic creation than a real burial imprint. It doesn't look like a, like a man wrapped in cloth.

Well, actually look. And the guy has really long arms, fingers, especially his right arm in hand. Yeah. And he's there. They literally, you're looking at me.

He does. I agree. Because his shoulders have been pulled out of joint. You're saying. Separate.

I agree. We have Bible version for that. Absolutely. Well, I think that's our out of joint. Wow.

So I'm 22. Wow. And wow. I gave my back to those. Literally.

We see here in Isaiah. And then it doesn't stop there because this is why what you're doing this weekend at Lake Point. Everyone needs to be here. We can get so desensitized to Easter. And I want to show you something else.

Only would we have yelled crucify him. I'm convinced too many believers are way too desensitized to what Jesus, the price he paid. I tell people all the time now that the shroud is an itemized receipt of how much Jesus loves you. You think about all the financial terms that are used in the New Testament. We've been bought.

We've been ransomed. We've been rescued. We've been paid for. What is the last thing Jesus says a CPA term to tell us that I paid in full? It was literally a term of it was a receipt had been given.

And let me tell you I'm bringing the receipts on the broadcast today because I want you to hold this. I don't know what this is. Look closely and tell me what if they resemble these look like little dice for a game. That's exactly what you're holding. And those are not replicas.

Those are actual Roman dice. Made of bone. Made of bone. Not human bone animal bones. Notice you can even see the numbers.

They're from Jerusalem in the first century.

I'm not saying these are the actual dice that were used. But Isaiah 53 and other passages said they divide it. They cast lots. They gambled for my clothing. And that is exactly what you're holding.

You were holding Roman dice from Jerusalem. I just got these in the first century. My son, Jacks was playing one of my triplets was playing with them. And we're in the drive through of Cains. And he's like dad, these stink.

I was like son, they're 2,000 years old. They're made from down. That's what they did think. It's like, wow. They do stink.

And Matthews got well, all four gospels tell us that

“Well, the author of life is dying right in front of them.”

They're too busy gambling. Wow. First close. So let's make sure that our hearts are not desensitized. Wow.

To the cross. Wow. All right. Jeremiah one more thing because I got to go back to this one.

So because you mentioned, you know, because everybody thinks this is like really long. Yeah.

“It would imply that the, you said there were two guards hitting Jesus.”

Yes. It would imply that every single time that the guards were hitting Jesus in the back or I'm assuming anyway, everywhere. They would be sprinkling off the blood on his inner. Yes.

It would have splashed all over him. And so man, like, you know, just, you know,

First Peter chapter one, verse two says,

To the foreknowledge of God the Father in the sanctification of the spirit for obedience to Jesus writes and for the sprinkling with his blood. Yeah. Great. And peace be multiplied you.

It's a, it's a siff. Then Jesus' enemies are hitting Jesus. And yet the response of Jesus in return is his blood sprinkling over them. In the same way, the Bible says that you and I were enemies of God. And because of Christ, we've been reconciled because of the sprinkling of his blood over us.

Man, that's a, that's a picture of, whatever. What happens with us? Wow. At the cross. That's right.

Hallelujah. Oh, okay. So you won't keep going here. I want to answer.

“There was another part of your question that I need to crush real quick.”

What was the other part of your questions? Anatomical. The image reflects characteristics. Let's listen. Let's listen with an artistic creation and a real burial imprint.

I have to kill this for a minute. So in 1978, 33 scientists, Sturpe, Shroud of Turin, Research Project, get permission, not from the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church did not have ownership of the shroud until the 1980s. That was something I had to get through. I thought this was some Catholic relic for 2000 years.

And I get an allergic reaction to Catholicism. We're out on, you know, really relic. I got 13,000 negative comments for saying that on Tucker. So I'm ready for all of them. So I do.

Because I'm a historian. I, you know, I saw the three wise men in the Cathedral of Colen. Give me a, you know, the Thomas's pinky. No. This is an artifact because we can actually study it and test it with the sciences.

So the Sturpe team took several years to publish their findings. And what did they prove? This is the first time I've used the word proof. Science proved there is no pigment. There is no dye.

There is no paint. There is no color.

“And they were in conclusive about how there's an image in the shroud.”

Actually, I want to get to this. So tell me, like, all right. That's the question. So if it's not dye or what you're in theory on how the, How did the image even get on this shroud?

This is where I got shroud red pill. This is where I became a shroud coat. Come on. Hey, live free nation. Easter at Lake Point is coming.

And we would love to celebrate with you. So no matter where you're tuning in from, you would love for you to come and join us.

April 3rd through 5th for a powerful and uplifting service.

As we celebrate the life changing truth that Jesus defeated the grave. Hey, this is a moment for the whole family to come and experience hope. Purpose and the story that still changes life today. Across all of our eight campuses in the DFW area coming out. And let's gather to explore who Jesus is.

And why his story still matters. Also, if you come and visit us for the very first time. And you tell us you're coming from the podcast. We would love to hook you up with some live free merch. Just find us in our first time guest tent and let us know.

Hey, for service times and details text the word. Easter to 2 0 4 1 1. And we will see you there. The best scientists in the world. And let me be clear.

I've met with many of these scientists. I'm talking about weapons scientists. I'm talking about rocket scientists. I met one when we were doing our two events Southern California from the Jet Propulsion Lab. He's like, oh yeah, everything you said is accurate.

He was working on the Mars project. And these are scientists Eric jumper John Jackson physicists who are at Los Alamos. San Diego laboratories. They work on atom bombs. They get the weekend with the shroud.

And they prove that there's literally no paint, no dye, no brush marks. They cannot understand how there's an image in the shroud. The best scientists in the world cannot explain it. So I fly to turn Italy. And I meet with a guy named Paulo Delazero.

He is a physicist. And he works at a nail laboratories. Anyone can look this up. He spends another five years of his life studying. How do you change?

Would no pigment paint dye or brush marks? How do you change a. A made of flacks essentially a linen shroud. So they literally grew a shroud. And they beamed their laser for five years at it.

And they were finally able to. Basically change the coloring of an and to leave a mark with it. Because otherwise you would scorch it if it's too hot. It's too powerful to just burn it up, right? They were able to basically change the the size of a postage stamp.

Not 14 feet behind us. And he publishes. And this went viral when I pushed that on my social.

34 billion watts of energy traveling at 140th of a billionth of a second to leave an image on the shroud is what Paulo Delazero said light.

And this is the moment of resurrection. So the shroud is not a death cloth. It's a resurrection cloth.

“So I'm meeting with Paulo and I'm like, sorry, you saying it's Jesus.”

He's like, well, of course.

34 billion watts of energy traveling at 140th of a billionth of a second reminds me of all these passages.

Because think about it. Jesus every time he manifests himself in the new testimony manifest himself as brilliant lights. The new heaven and the new earth someday will have no need for the sun. That's significant. I was wrong with that for listeners.

Yeah. Trace that real quick because you got transfiguration. His face was changed became like lightning. Obviously. Yep.

You got revelation. Same. But you have Paul and I have filmed on Roman roads at noon day. Okay. And in the land of Israel, curved their first century roads.

It's hot. I'm sweating. Paul says that he has an experience of seeing the resurrected Christ. And if you follow the book of Acts, he says it was brighter than the noon day sun. So anyone getting chills yet.

So what we have in this residue. What we have is this signature on the shroud of the moment of Jesus's resurrection. That is so powerful.

It literally left a selfie mark on it.

Great. This is Jesus's selfie.

“So the theory is that in that same moment.”

In the same way that at the transfiguration. Yep. His face became like lightning. It kind of is, hey, upon resurrection. That same light of glory manifested itself.

And left that. That's the end. It pushed the 2,750 pound tomb out of the way. Great. Wow.

But let me show you. This is animated. Let's just play this for a minute. I want you to see. This is a shroud.

No, hit play. Okay. Boom. Wow. That is what happened.

That slow motion. Oh. So Jesus didn't like stand up like Lazarus and take his grave close off. His body emanated at the moment of resurrection through the shroud. What makes you say that?

There it is. Look. And by emanated, Jeremiah. You literally physically. Well, because Jesus appeared here in rooms and then disappear.

So the body has new capabilities as ours will in the resurrection. No. It is not. It's not. This world does not have any control over him anymore.

And so I thought he would like stood up and pulled off. No. So when John. Does anyone have a Bible? John 20.

We need to look at John 25 through eight. So we created this. Um, shout out to stargate studios in Malta. So this is what John would have seen. I got John Peter.

So John 25 through eight. Can you read that? Yeah, verse five and stupid to look in. He saw the linen cloths lying there. But he did not go in.

Then Simon Peter came following him and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloth lying there. And the face cloth which had been on Jesus. Jesus has had not lying with the linen cloth. But fold it up in a place by itself.

Then the other disciple who had reached the tomb first.

Also went in and he saw and believed. He saw and what did he see. The linen cloth. Fascinating. And you guys.

I'll do it. I'll just put this together. So you're saying he may have gone in and seen. That's what he imprint on the. And I believe it was still glowing.

Oh, now this is speculative. Okay. This is not his. I don't I haven't proven this. I'm working on an article on it right now.

Because he goes to the tomb early. There's no electricity. I mean, this is this is an animation. I mean, I doubt that the son would have reached it because they would have gone down into the tomb. It would have been again in tombs.

Teams are this was a rockune tomb. I've well, I've been in the actual tomb. You wouldn't we wouldn't have had sunlight like that coming in.

“I believe the face of Jesus was still glowing on it when he saw it.”

Why don't you think about those to be seen? I think about that verse. Give them the ability to see the light of the knowledge of the glory of the out of the face of Jesus Christ. Dude. I'm going to say that wartime.

The light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Wow. I've seen that before. It was not until chronologically they saw. So this and then I do want to clear this may be one of your tough questions for me.

But I want to clear something up. There are so many fine Christians. And I've gotten this email a thousand times. That's why I wrote it in my book. So they say Jeremiah.

John's gospel said linen strips plural. And they think that Jesus is a mummy. They think that he was mummified. So let me clear this up to help find Christians like me who get confused by this. If we didn't have John's gospel, the only word that's used to send in which is behind us.

Find linen cloth singular. John's gospel gives us the face cloth, Sudarim, which we can talk about. But then it also uses this term Athonia. That's plural. So I want you to see that we see strips around the singular shroud.

At the head, the feet. I was leading the tour recently with a bunch of college kids. And they all take pictures of themselves asleep.

So they actually would do that. There's a job and they just identify the body. So when you're dead, you're not like, you know, they would actually. So Athonia would have been probably there as well. That's where the strips.

That's where the strips come from. So we're not doing anything unbiblical here. We're actually exigining the scriptures. Well, we're letting scripture interpret scripture. The four gospels.

So the answer is yes to all four gospels.

“And that's what he would have seen, which is so helpful.”

Okay. So like I was looking at this book. By the way, this this this is great. Thank you. Okay.

First of all, for listeners, how the book is the Jesus discoveries. 10 historic finds that bring us face to face with Jesus. Pretty recently published right? Yeah. And like in the last two weeks.

Okay. Well, we're looking at the graduation. It's awesome. We're able to take it in the show notes. And I think we'll have some copies in the bookstore.

Thank you. So you got this thing on pay. It's on pay 30. This blue. Okay.

Yeah, this is insane. So talk me through. I don't we have this. Yes, we have the probability. Yeah, they're the two slides right there. 20, 20, 30. Okay.

This much. And then I want to start throwing it. Yeah. Let's go. The objections.

Yeah. Absolutely. So. Here we see all of the different wound patterns that match the crucifixion narratives embedded in the gospel.

I want to share something with you. The most evidence that we have from antiquity about crucifixion comes from four sources. Matthew, Mark Luke and John. Okay. Crucifixion was so agonizing.

And so you're relevant to the Roman Empire because no Roman citizen was crucified. So we actually, the best description we have from antiquity of crucifixion are the four gospels. Wow. Tacitus doesn't really get into it.

Swaytonius, diocassius, Josephus, a little bit. But as far as the description of crucifixion. Also, this is why if we want to invent a religion,

we would have never invented it the way the gospel writers did.

I have an article or I have a chapter in my book body of proof. What the gospel writers should have done better if they were inventing a false narrative rather than a real one. Because everything they said flew in the face of what the Roman mindset would have accepted. And so, look at this. Look at the scourge marks.

You can see it. The feet wounds. There's that side wound. I was pointing out the blood angle. The wrists, the elongated arms, the wound pattern.

There's those shoulder abrasions. You can see those right there from carrying the tip heel on the left. Yeah, top left. Yep. His body is in Rigamortis.

This is important actually. So he's probably in the tomb 39 hours. That's Mark 1240. They say give us a sign. He says I'm going to give you one sign.

I'm going to give you the sign of danger. My resurrection from the dead. So Jesus body does not decay. There's no decay on the shroud. So Rigamortis usually lasts 39 to 45 hours.

What does that mean? Rigamortis is when your body stiffens. And so his body would have been very stiff.

“That's why we even can see that like the buddocks is even like, I mean, it's like he's”

flinching all over his body. His muscles are tight because his body, his head is elevated. His knees are up because his body is in Rigamortis at the moment of his resurrection. And there's no bodily decay oozing on the shroud. My body will not see the K.

Wow. Sacrifices and offerings. You did not require but a body you prepared for me. So there's no body bodily decay on the shroud. And so that's what we see.

So now let's go to the probability. So fast forward barbarous. I meant I'm intern and I have to meet this mathematician named Bruno barbarous. There's an all the credit to him. And the irony of his last name barbarous is not lost to me at all.

This Easter weekend. He did a calculation. He is a mathematician. He has been with the actual shroud over 100 times. Like if the president of Italy wants to see the shroud, Bruno shows you the shroud.

He's given 4,000 lectures on the shroud. He's a mathematician. He doesn't have a theological axe to grind. He assigned this probability that when you look at the all of the correspondence of how the man of the shroud is crucified, and you compare it to what we see in the gospels,

he gives it a probability of 1 in 200 billion that it is not Jesus.

Wow. Wow. Wow. So this is on my YouTube channel. Like I'm I'm I'm from Kansas here from Kentucky.

I'm from Kansas. I'm like so. Professor barbarous. Are you saying it's Jesus? I write about this in the book.

And he almost gets frustrated. And he's he's Italian. He's like. How can it not be? He actually does it.

He said. He said. He does. He does. Like I'm a lot.

That's how I'm going to say. The numbers forced me to believe it's him. Of course it is. Wow. I was like, oh, I feel stupid for asking.

And I would thank you. He said, didn't you hear me? 1 in 200 billion chance it's not. Is he a believer? Yes.

A devout believer. Because he's a rational man, right? A rational man. So that's why I said at the beginning.

“I believe the shroud is authentically the shroud of Jesus.”

Because I'm not irrational. I know a lot more about the shroud than I do. How my car will work to drive me home today. And I have no problem getting in the car and driving home. I have no clue how the air conditioning works.

I know some of our audience does. But I know a lot more about the shroud. All right. Go back to this real quick. Yeah.

“Is there anything you should on point out here?”

Can I ask a question? Go right ahead. All right. So like, okay, but what about this? Like, what somebody, what I'm assuming people would say is yeah, man.

But like, somebody would just read, they would just read the gospel accounts. And they would know what to put into the shroud. Right. To match the, you know, so it's Marksman's air. Right.

They would know what to do. So the probability thing doesn't work. But the cumulative data that you would have to add to that then is okay. You would have to actually crucify someone to do that. They would have to have type A, B blood.

They would have to have pollen from the first century.

You'd have to have a, a side wound in the exact spot between rib five and six. Another, another thing that people would definitely get wrong if you're a hoaxer is you would have made Jesus much shorter. Because people often say, oh, people were only about five foot one. The women were like four feet 11.

We actually have people crucified taller than Jesus. In Jerusalem from the reign of Pontius Pilate. Some of you, oh, honan, I think he was, he was six eleven something like that. Six six to six eleven. So the fact that Jesus is five ten to five eleven.

According to this, you wouldn't have made that up. You wouldn't have known that. You would have actually guessed wrongly. So again, all of the cumulative data is easy to respond to that and just say, well, now actually. And again, no one else crucified their victims this way.

You would have probably been more influenced by the fact that there would be no. There would have been no crown of thorns. His legs would have been broken. It would not have lined out. Well, I'm just, I'm a dumb Kentucky, but I'm even thinking here for a second.

All right. So like the theory this skeptics have is this thing was created in like the 1300s. Well, 60 to 1390 based on carbon dating. Okay.

I'll get to that in a second.

I'll get to that in a second. You're beating me to the punch here. So and what you said is if somebody had done that, then they would have based all of this on medieval. Right. Art and to your point earlier, all medieval art for instance with the crown of thorns.

Yes. All medieval art makes it like a reef and through the palms. Yep. Yeah. That's right.

And but on the shroud, it's a, it's a, it's a help. So there's things like that. Like man is a long beard. He has a long hair. He has a beard that's been plucked in the front.

Okay. So don't you have something about the face? Yes. Okay. So these are all what we call the icons.

These are all, and that's just a fancy word for paintings of Jesus. That are very old. The Christ's pantocrotter one in the top right corner is the most famous.

That's the St. Catherine's monastery that dates to the mid 6th century.

So 550 something like that. Top right. Top right of that of what we're looking at. So all of these look the same to me. They all, and there's over 200, by the way.

I couldn't fit them all on one slide. But like hit that what is the source material that all these people are using for the shroud are for the, for the face of Jesus. Let's pull it up now. Right?

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. How would they know? Hmm.

They had to have source material before the 5th century, 4th, 6th century. And they all matched this, and I've got some more show until now. This is super crazy. What I have right now. Okay.

“This, this you have to go over to the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul to see.”

But mine's better than the one they have there. Come on, man. I've got a Roman solidus in my hand. It's solid gold. It's from the late 7th century.

I want you to look at the face. That is holy cow. What does that look like? It looks like that. Yeah.

Yeah. Looks just like that. So, wait, is there a way for me to hold this up with a camera somehow? There you go. Can I zoom?

It looks like an iPod. Well, this. They're good news. There's pictures of it in my book. Yeah.

We'll show as well in post here. Yeah. We'll show this. It certainly will help us out here. This is a true story.

I had just acquired a bronze coin. This is a hilarious story. I've time to tell it. I just acquired a bronze coin of hair of the great.

“And all the coins and Jesus is a, this is important for people that love the Bible.”

They're in the genitive. It's Heradu Basileu of hair of the great. The coins likeness. It literally belong to them. So, there's a whole faith lesson in there when Jesus said,

"Who's image is this? Give to Caesar what Caesar would give God your life because my image is on you." That's a different story. So, I want to show this friend of mine Bob. Shitwood.

Shout out to Bob. Shitwood. He helps me all over the world. And he, and I said, "Meet me on Wednesday night at church at Prestonwood." And I will, I'm going to show you my coin.

He's like, "Okay. Well, I got something to show you too." I was like, "All right." And so, we meet in the pew. And he's like, "During COVID, I got into buying gold."

And he said, "I have this coin." And I want you to just look at it and tell me what you think. Hands me, dude, the Justinian Roman solidest that has a strike on it that it's almost mint condition, which is why I said it's better than the one at the Hagia Sophia. He handed you that.

Okay. I said, "Bob." Look at what you're looking at. You said, "What?" I said, "What does that look like?"

“He said, "Well, that looks like the shroud.”

I've never seen that.

I've never noticed that before."

I said, " Dude, this is a Roman solidest of Justinian that Alan Wagner, a professor at Duke University, pointed out that there are 200 points of correspondence between this coin and the face of the man in the shroud." Far beyond what's acceptable in a court of law. So what's the theory on how that theory?

Well, first off, that's in the 600. It's the first coin with Jesus on it. There's a whole thing in there. He's battling the caliphate, which Islam is killing all the Christians they can. And his last stand is, "I'm going to put Jesus on the money because he's

Christ Lord of all." And he puts himself on the back as a mark of humility. And Wagner gets this from Duke University. You can look this up. And he sees 200 points of correspondence between that face.

So again, it all goes back to the same source material. And this all anti-dates, that predates the medieval dating by 700 years. How do you explain that?

Okay, so that leads me to this objection.

So I'm going to read it to you. So I guess it was in 1988. Yeah, there was like a few labs that started doing carbon dating. I totally corrupt. Can't wait to talk.

Okay, I've heard this one before. Yeah, I'm just going to read it. I'm just going to read it. Okay, so in '88, hold my coffee. Okay, I got two.

I got two. Some labs started doing carbon dating. They're doing carbon dating on the thing. And they date it to, I've got it right here. Let's do this.

That's exactly it. To between 1260 and 1390 AD.

“Which coincides with the shrouds appearance in France in the 14th century?”

What say you, Doc? Utterly corrupt data based on not what I'm saying. The 2019 Journal of Archaeometry published by the same Oxford University that says now, you cannot use that carbon dating because based on the raw data, which the British Museum suppressed for 27 years.

My friend, Tristan Kasiabhanka, just published a book on this. He did the equipment, he's a Frenchman. He did the equivalent of a, and we just spoke at the international shroud conference together. He did the equivalent of what we call an America, like a freedom of information act took years.

Got the raw data finally of what they actually tested on the shroud. And they tested the one corner that all the scientists from 1978 said, don't test this. Don't test the corner. It's been patched.

You're going to find cotton fibers like, because even this shroud, I don't know if you notice we have gaff tape on the corners. It's already falling apart on the ends. And this is a replica. So obviously, the church is smart enough to know, hey,

this thing's kind of fraying on the edge. So we're going to patch it with cottons, which anyone can see under a microscope, but the rest is fine linen. So they supposedly take the top left piece,

the rayus fragment, and they tested seven labs are supposed to test it. Only three do Oxford, Zurich, and Arizona.

One guy is awarded a five million dollar endowed chair.

You can look this up for yourself after he writes it on the chalkboard, and sits there like this, 1260 to 1390. The corrupt British museum that I've been in a thousand times suppresses the raw data for 27 years. So according to my buddy, Tristan,

what they found and what the Journal of Archaeometry points out in 2019 is the sample that they tested is not homogenous with the shroud itself. They may not even test of the shroud. Because it's a corrupted piece, or if they did, it's one of those patched pieces.

So if we were to stack up all the evidence against the shroud, the only evidence that I ever hear is this carbon dating. And maybe I'll hear new stuff today with these questions. But you cannot use that. That is not acceptable anymore.

You need to update your research. 2019, the Journal of Archaeometry, and then with this Freedom of Information Act, you can actually see that the samples they use are not homogenous with the shroud. And then there's new testing happening in 2024 or 2024.

Well, and then that's the other, I get into the five ways in my book that the shroud has also been dated. The Institute of Crystalography, this has been crazy to learn all this. Wide-angle X-ray scattering, wax this dating.

“Remember I said there were lots of other shrouds from the land of Israel,”

has compared the date of a shroud without a doubt dated to the 80's 70's. With the shroud of turns, we have a shroud from a sauté. And then we have the shroud of turn. They have both been getting old together at the same time. They can tell the degradation on the shroud,

that it's been getting old based on wax this dating for 2,000 years. Wow. So it's been getting older for a lot longer than 700 years. Wow. Okay.

Show me the, do the face thing real quick. Okay. This is a shout out to my friend Doug Powell and Awesome Scholar and Apologist. And this is what he created in mid-Journey. Look at that.

So this is based on the shroud and he did.

Absolutely. He did. He's an all-of-skinned Jewish man, Long beard, long hair. Don't read the Corinthians passage about Scholar hair.

Oh, that's wrong. That's wrong. Don't read that at me. Don't I suggest that at me. No Jewish man had short hair and didn't have a little beard.

And this is cool the way Doug did this. Well, I'm going to say one ask about it. But he inserted just two things into mid-Journey. The image of the shroud and then the Christ Pantokrotter icon. Just those two things.

And I give more of this on my Instagram. The whole story of it.

“And that's what becomes the cover of my book.”

Holy. Because I think it's so striking to see that's likely what Jesus is resurrection face looked like. Okay.

So I am going to read the first verse.

Okay. That was one of my questions. You have to hear like me together. So out of context. So two biblical objections to this.

Number one, Dr. Johnson doesn't disviolet the second commandment against having images. Hold my coffee again. Okay. That's number one.

Okay. Number two. What about 1 Corinthians 114 scene where Paul says does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair is a shame to him. So Dr. Johnson.

Yeah. Obviously. Jesus wouldn't have had long hair. And God wouldn't have preserved a quote unquote grave image. Alright.

Now, thank you for these great questions. So I espere shorts the same thing. And again, I want to appeal to him because he gave the TED talk on the shroud. And then he later published an awesome journal article. I was the editor of a journal called The City.

When I was a professor at Houston Babish University. And I asked him to answer the five top objections. And I asked him to summarize that and give him all the credit in my book. And I said, isn't this a grave image? The second commandment, just for the benefit of our audiences, you will have no other

God you're not going to worship a tree God or anything you made. And oh, Barry said, and this is a Jewish man. Barry said, oh, that's so easy to answer. The shroud is not man made. So it's not a grave image.

The moment of resurrection. Yeah. No man made the shroud. And by the way, I've had the shroud. Literally this replica all over the world with me.

“I think we put 125,000 people through our exhibit last year.”

I've never seen one person worship it.

I've never seen one person pray to it. Now can I tell you this? I got on my knees in front of the actual shroud. And I didn't pray to the shroud or worship it. But I had a moment where I said, Jesus,

make me a more ardent defender of the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ. Please, I rededicate my life to you right now. So it's like taking people to Israel. So the Corinthians passage, if you've been to Corinth, they had short hair there.

They looked like Romans. If you studied Jesus in Judeaica himself, no Jewish man and I answered this extensively. They all would have had beards. They all would have had longerish hair.

And there's no correction there needed. Because again Paul is writing to the church at Corinth. This is, I've been to Corinth. You guys probably have too many times. This is not a Jewish community.

This is a Roman area. So very, very simply. And again, Paul took the Nazareth bow. He shaved his head and he did some interesting things. But there is no evidence that any Jewish man in the 20s and 30s AD would have had no beard

and short hair at all. Interesting. To your point, what you said earlier.

“So we already mentioned that CS Lewis strikingly.”

It's really surprising. This CS Lewis had an image of it at so much. That's right. And to your point, that is why in Hebrew. So he wrote a letter to an Anglican nun about the shroud.

And he said, I'm going to read him. This was CS Lewis letter back to her. Thank you so much for the head of our Lord from the shroud. It is grown upon me wonderfully. I don't commit myself to the genuine.

It's basically going, I don't know.

Yeah, I'm back then. It totally understandable. He said one can ever be quite certain. But the great value is to make one realize he was a man. And once even a dead man, there is so much difference

between a doctrine and a realization. And he had that photo framed so that he would remind himself. This was not some abstract doctrine. Like a real guy dot on a real cross for the real you. And if you really give me your life, he can really change it for everyone.

That's powerful. That's it, man. Yeah. Okay. So you got those.

So those that you got those objections. Yeah. Those objections. Any more? Okay.

Yeah. I got it. That's it. Dr. Johnson. Yes.

You can just call me JJ. JJ. I'm trying to think of something. JJ. But, but there is simply no historical evidence of the shroud.

Before the mid-14 century. In fact, Bishop Pierre something I can't pronounce. A French name. Yep. Who had jurisdiction of the church where the shroud was located.

It told the Pope. The shroud was a forgery. Yep.

I've responded to that completely in a blaze article. We should put in the show notes. Yeah. Do that. Really?

That's down the rabbit hole.

“Because I don't want to lose the audience.”

But it is not a forgery at all. And there are reasons he wrote that that I literally just blast out of the park. But can we bring up? We actually have a map of the provenance. This is the term of the shroud.

We know that you seevious references. The face cloth. The shroud. Yes. The face cloth.

The greatest church. Early church. Yeah. So if we play this, this is the route that we have historically of the shroud. We know it's in the desa and 544.

How do we know that? Based again. Thank you to you CBS. The early church historian and others who talk about the fact that there's this face image cloth at a desa.

And it actually gets lost. It makes sense. Yes. It gets lost and re-found any desa. That's 544.

It's interesting how it. It races away from Islamic conquest. And Asia Minor.

“It's in Constantinople shot out to the Greek Orthodox who never get credit.”

They probably protected the shroud. The eastern church for a thousand years before the Catholic church ever had it.

This is why I always say the shroud belongs to the unified church.

Doesn't belong to the Catholic church and belong to the Eastern Orthodox. It belongs to the unified church of the Lord Jesus Christ. And then it goes to Athens. We know all this historically. It's cool though.

You see Naples during World War Two. Hitler was fascinated with the shroud. And thought it would give him power to win. So that's a whole story in and of itself. Literally at the Abbey in Naples.

The monks there protected the shroud from Natsi SS when they came to try to find it. My kind of monks. Dude. They had no idea it was in the altar that they were literally going around. They're like just keep praying and singing in the Natsi's left.

And they were looking for the shroud. So that's only time. It's been out of turn since 1578. Turn is an Italy Northern Italy. And so again, this is the very clear provenance that it goes way before Shambary, France, Leary.

We actually have it far before that. But again, I always tell people this. It's only been known as the shroud of turn since the 16th, since the 1578, the 16th century. It was known by different names before that throughout history. Just like my beloved Kansas City chiefs were once known as the Dallas Texans.

It had different names to it. And so this helped me understand that I'm a visual learner. And again, back to the pollen, you guys. The other 20 pollen spores that we have on the shroud are from all of these places. Are you serious?

Are you serious? It took five years to prove that to go all these places and match up the pollen. No way. That's stupid. I know.

Wow. That's incorrect.

So basically you're saying, hey man, this is just a lie.

Yeah. It's simply a lie that there's no historical evidence. And so it was worth a $1,400. Confected with a little history and easily answered. That's fascinating.

Yeah. All right. We already did the artistic and anatomical. Oh, by the way, I want to say this. We were talking about constants in Opal.

One of the things that's really interesting. And I heard this on one of the other podcast you were on. One of the things that's really interesting is that I love about this is it's both a death and resurrection. Yes. Peace.

That's right. So which is interesting because major world religions. Contra Islam obviously Islam says Christ was not crucified. Yes. So Islam's claim is that Jesus was a prophet, but he was not crucified.

“I think the Quran literally says they crucified him not.”

Yes. With an exclamation point. So they deny obviously the crucifixion. And then obviously Judaism denies the resurrection. Right.

Well, you got right here. Is essentially you would have proof of both death and resurrection. And burial, too. I would add that. You have death.

That was a resurrection in one artifact. And nothing outside the Bible does that except the shroud. That addresses the atheist. There's an atheist claim there that the body would kind of install it. Right.

No, no, no. Not would do as burial traditions. Not in non-war time. Absolutely not. So I would about this not.

JJ. Well, about this not JJ. Okay. But JJ. The shroud fits perfectly into a period when relics were widely produced and circulated.

Why should I believe this is any more authentic than pieces of the quote true cross. Yeah. Or many other holy objects. Now first of all, me and Carlos were doing a little research before this. And we found some old Martin Luther quotes about relics that are too funny not to read.

So I'm going to read this and then you can respond to the objection. So by the way. Don't get offended though. I'm not a captain. I'm kidding.

This is a team promised it all the way right here. So first of all, for anybody that doesn't know, Martin Luther obviously kind of kicked off the Protestant Reformation. Fifteen hundredths was ardently passionately against relics.

So I'm going to read some amazing Martin Luther quotes.

So what lies, but the other thing I'll say is Martin Luther had a very spicy sense of humor.

Very.

And he had a brewery in his basement that his wife led for him.

And he had a library in his bathroom. I've been in it. I've been in his bathroom had a library at his toilet. What's funny is that that is apparently apparently he had some form of like IBS.

Yeah.

“So that's why he had a library built in his toilet.”

Like, there's a literal Martin Luther quote. I'll butcher it here. This like I break wind and vittenberg and they hear it and roll. Yeah. Like that's a literal word they're quote.

So here's some Martin Luther quotes for you. What lies are there about relics. That's a real quote by the way. Look that up. What lies are there about relics.

One claims to have a feather from the wing of the angel Gabriel. And the bishop of Mayans has a flame from Moses burning bush. How does it happen? This is amazing. How does it happen that 18 apostles are buried in Germany when Christ only had 12.

But I'll give you another one. Here's another one. These are funny. If all the pieces of the true cross were collected together, they would fill a whole ship. Yeah, the gospel testifies there was only one cross.

One last one. There are enough nails from the Holy Cross.

“So by the way, for listeners, if you didn't know this little church history, especially in the early medieval period,”

tons of Catholic churches would claim to have some relic that dated to the actual events. And so he's saying they were just making up tons of them. So there's another one. There are enough nails from the Holy Cross and various parts of the world to show a whole team of forces. So J.J.

It seems like man, this just arose right in that period when all these relics were happening. Man, aren't we Protestants for against relics? Yeah, we are. Well, we are. Absolutely.

There's 20,000 relics and they have different degrees. No one's just talking about this last week. And here's the interesting thing about the shroud. It's not a relic. It's an artifact because it can be tested with the sciences.

And there's one other artifact of the Catholic Church as the pseudarium of OVAdo, which we have an entire chapter that Doug Powell contributed to my book. That's the face cloth. The pseudarium that also has type AB blood on it. No image, but it matches blood type, which is fascinating. We can jump into down to that.

But I want to answer this. Martin Luther is in a time where to be a priest. These men were utterly corrupt. Don't think like your modern pastor today. Good man, living moral lives.

First Timothy 3, Titus 1, Commitments.

No. These guys were some of the most corrupt people that you could meet. John Tetzel is popular at this time, who said famously, every time a coin in the coffer rings a soul from purgatory springs. I've been to the home of John Tetzel. And so the relics, it's interesting.

Frederick the wise protects. I don't want to geek out on the reformation. But Frederick the wise is the protector of Martin Luther. And he's the one who actually has Luther abducted. So he's not burned at the stake.

And then protects him at the Vartburg castle where I've been. And it was interesting by the end of Martin Luther's discipleship in Frederick the wise's life. He had actually put away all the relics he owned because he was growing in his love for God's words. So just a little side off there. So I agree that I'm not here to defend Catholic relics of any kind.

And especially how they were misused and abused to give people absolution and salvation and pay for forgiveness and pray for the dead. And all anti-biblical, but again, I've realized the shroud is in a relic. It's an artifact. It's been tested by the sciences.

“And what you're saying is, "Man, honestly, it's just not true."”

That the evidence points to rising in the medieval period during this era of relics. Exactly. And I'm not the only one. I mean, there is a growing number of biblical scholars and archaeologists that feel the same way that I do based on the evidence. Let me ask you two quick final questions here.

So let's just say, some day it comes out that man actually was a host. Yeah. All right. Some day, somebody finds an old journal from, you know, 1360, whatever it is. And some guys like, "Oh, man, I did it."

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, kind of thing. Does that affect your faith in the resurrection at all? Not one bit.

Why not?

Because again, there evidence is so powerful that Jesus died in rows again.

You cannot explain the suffering in the world without the resurrection of Jesus from in 1818. Jesus foretolded in Mark 831. Mark 931. Mark 1033 and 34 on the third day.

Jesus messianizes Joseus 62 on the third day. He will raise us up. Jesus adembrated resurrection. Mark 5. Luke 7.

John 11. Jyrus's daughter. The widow of Nane's son, Lazarus. He showed he had power over death. Fourthly, all of the archaeological findings that we have shows that the gospel narratives

smack of authenticity. Number 5, the resurrection was not what His disciples expected. This is where a lot of people lose out. They don't realize this is probably why Judas fell out of the boat. Four Q285, the Dead Sea Scrolls community, says that when the Messiah shows up, he's going to

And he's going to proclaim himself, God, cleanse a corrupt priesthood, vanquished the temple.

And that was the Messiah they were looking for.

“That's why Peter and Matthew 1623 says, Jesus, you can't go to the cross.”

And he literally says, get behind me. Say, I'm going to the cross. So His disciples didn't expect it. And then how do you explain the conversion of Saul of Tarsus? What we can say is that Jesus appeared to those who loved him.

Jesus appeared to those who were indifferent to him. And he appeared to those who were hostile to him. None other than his own family. Mark 3, his family thinks he's nuts. Mark 6, he's basically called a bastard by this son of a Nick with this illicit child.

John 7 5, not even as brothers believed on him. This is why we have the appearance to James, which gives me chills right now even thinking about. First Corinthians 157, and he appears to James. James is like a lot of our family and friends. They're the most skeptical of Jesus.

And he was, he was humiliated by his brother. I mean, think about it. And yet James goes from skeptic to believer. I would have loved to be at that appearance tradition, by the way. I could see him appearing to James at the, at the, at the homework shop, you know, bro.

Check out my side. They got me good. Check out this dude. Here I am.

And here's what we know about James.

He becomes a pillar of the church, according to Galatians. Paul sinks out his wisdom. James, Peter and John. He's the pastor of the world's first mega church. So don't hate on mega churches.

James probably had 20,000 in this congregation. If you count up the book of Acts conservatively. He dies according to Josephus. In 862, this is antiquity's 20, believing his brother is the Messiah.

So I have four sons.

“And you have to ask yourself this question critically.”

What would it take for you to believe your brother was the Messiah and to die believing that. My boys don't, I break up civil wars every day. They don't think they're brothers the son of God. And then I don't even have time to get to solve.

And then finally, everywhere the Christian message goes. Society is improved. Humanity is rehumanized. This is a message. The gospel that's unstoppable.

So I haven't even mentioned the shroud. And I've just given you seven reasons that are my body of proof of why without a doubt. I believe Jesus throws from the grave. And it comes out.

The shroud wasn't it? I'll say. Okay. Let's keep going. Yes, right.

Man, there's a bunch of dudes in particular. Like, you know, we're here more and more. But especially like long distance truckers. And a bunch of guys who were like, man, you know, kind of trying to figure out the Jesus thing.

But, you know, maybe I don't know. And what would you say to somebody who they're here in this? And even while we've been talking to them, they've been sitting in a truck or working out on a treadmill.

And like while you've been talking, there's been something rising in their hearts.

“Yeah, like you know, I think it's time to bend the needle.”

Yeah. What would you say to that guy? I want you to pray the prayer that the center pray that Jesus heard, Lord, be merciful to me as center. That's enough.

You don't need the right words or formulaic. Jesus, I trust that your payment was enough for me on the cross. And that you rose again. I believe that. So Jesus, I trust and you to forgive me in my sense.

That's all you have to pray. You don't even need to pray. Just believe it. And in the proclaim, Jesus is Lord, Romans 109, and you'll be forgiven.

There's a second person I want to talk to you this Easter weekend. Maybe you're coming to Lake Point this weekend for the first time without someone you love. You've lost a loved one. You've lost maybe a child.

Maybe a husband, a wife, a best friend. The beauty of the resurrection is we can talk about our loved ones and the present tense because of the glory of the resurrection. First, that's Lonion's four. We agree, but we don't agree without hope.

John 14, 19. Jesus said, "Because I live, you will live also two dozen times we're given that promise." So therefore, we can be strong. We can be vigilant.

Always abounding in the work of the Lord,

first written in the ins 1558. Because we know that everything we do for Jesus matters because of the resurrection. Dr. Johnson, Jeremiah. Would you please pray for the people who've been listening?

Absolutely. Thank you, Jesus, for the power of the resurrection. Lord, Romans 8/11, your word says the same power that rose Jesus from the grave dwells and every one of us is believers. Lord, we don't know if it's 34,000 billion watts or what,

but we know it's a power we can't quantify. It's a power that forgives our sin. It's a power that takes us out of addiction. It's the power that brings our marriages together and helps us to be better parents.

And so, Lord, we want to saturate ourselves and resurrection power. And so, Lord, the whole purpose of this broadcast is not been to make us smarter. It's been to help us know you better to have a face to face.

Look at you, Jesus. We say with Paul, in 1 Corinthians 13, we want to see you face to face. We say with David, your face, Lord, will I see you? We say with John in Revelation 224,

Jesus, we want to see your face clearly.

a blink, a twinkling.

“And we can't wait to be with you face to face.”

And so, Jesus, thank you today for the powerful truths of your resurrection.

And Lord, we pray that you bless all the services at all the campuses at Lake Point this weekend.

The God, your spirit would be here.

“Lord, I pray people when just invite people.”

I pray they would bring people and also those

that aren't even here in the DFW area

that they would watch online and get friends and family. And I've watched parties, this Eastern.

“I say, "Hey, come listen to Pastor Josh's message."”

And no one to service is Lord, we pray in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. You're my thank you. Thank you, God.

Thank you. (upbeat music)