I think the army has a way of putting you in tough situations.
It's going to knock out the imperfections.
It's going to knock out the impurities. And this is going to make you stronger. Or it's going to break you. So you have the choice. Kloid Smith is a trial attorney, military veteran,
and the founder of Smith, trial law. Drawing from more than two decades of military leadership and combat experience, he fights relentlessly for his clients, helping them navigate life's toughest battles with courage, resilience, and unwavering advocacy.
Being a lawyer is similar to leading, because you're trying to inform people
“and you're trying to get them to lead them in an interaction, right?”
What I used to impart on my leaders is to leave their guys with this indomitable spirit, the fighting wind and that work. But I'm working now, not on just being the better trial lawyer every day. But also building the firm and getting it to where I want them to be. [MUSIC PLAYING]
It spans the goal. Like a super high school. Internet helpers. [INAUDIBLE] Today, Apple is going to reinvent the phone.
It's not over. I'm telling how we're-- --the living your legacy podcast for those who live to leave a legacy. [MUSIC PLAYING]
Welcome to another episode of the Living Your Legacy podcast for Insight Success. I am Rachel Gutierrez. I am Rachel Gutierrez. Wow, it's one day.
Joining me today is Chloe Smith. And Chloe Smith, he jumps for-- I won't want it as life. He was jumping from planes and now he's jumping into courtrooms. Am I correct?
That's correct. Are you jumping through and crashing through the roof of these courtrooms? Now, usually through the front door. Because this is the way you climbed into our studios,
through the roof. You noticed that this is-- Yeah, COVID. As far as the door is locked. Well, COVID's got photos of this.
So how are you? So what a happy Monday. Happy Monday. It's good to be down here. It's a lot warmer here than it is in Virginia right now.
It's freezing our studio to partner in crime. She went to a concert and it's negative four. And Michigan. Oh, yeah. Awesome.
Anything for music? Well, anything to hear your story to my friend, do you or moments away from film your episode for Operation CEO? What do you think?
Or what will we learn about you in your episode?
“Well, I think the thing that just going through the process”
and thinking through everything is-- but what I used to impart on my leaders is to leave their guys with this endomitable spirit the flight and wind, no matter what. Yeah.
And so I thought I was living that ethos to be honest for most of my life. And then when I left the military, I stopped living it. And I let some hard times get me down. And then I thought, I'm handling my abroad all that time.
So I went through some trials and tribulations. And I think you'll learn, you know, I'd probably, with your a little bit more than most, a three life threatening surgeries that lasted, you know, got life-flated, the children's hospital a couple times.
Got shot in the eye with a BB gun. All these things that to stop me from doing what my dream was,
which was always to be, I always jump out of airplanes
and chew bad guys in the face. Then I almost didn't get it. And I had to try hard and try different routes. Try didn't list. The army wouldn't take me.
I always told my enlisted soldiers this and I get a kick out of it. I wasn't good enough to be enlisted, but I was good enough to be a common officer. So I went into the army that way.
“And then, you know, I think the army has a way”
of putting you in tough situations. And you can either fold under that toughness or you know, you get stronger. And so I would always tell my men, you know, your character is defined at your low points.
- Yes, sir. - And not your high points. Just like a, you know, a blacksmith with a piece of iron is hammering away at that. It's going to knock out the imperfections.
It's going to knock out the impurities and it's just going to make you stronger. - Yes, sir. - Or it's going to break you. So you have the choice.
And so so I'd always tell them, you know,
learn from your mistakes. And if you own them, you can fix them. But if you don't own them, you know, you're just going to keep repeating that cycle. - Right, you're not going to get better.
And I think when I left the military, it was my life for 23 years. And I hit a low point. And I, you know, I was still functioning. - Yeah, I didn't through law school, I got a clerkship.
But I was not at that high peak that I'd been. And I realized I wasn't living that same mantra. - Yes, sir. - So I just started fixing myself. And over probably about a year and a half,
maybe two years, I got myself back to fighting shape mostly. And just that right mindset, more than anything. And so I think I'm back in that mold. And I try to bring that same indomitable spirit that I had in the army.
- Yes, sir. - Into the courtroom. Before we get to the courtroom, how are things today? Are you still in that realm of pain of suffering
where you're like a sending or have you ascended? And now you're just kind of breaking through a new room here? - Well, I don't think, I think if you think you stop ascending
In you're there, then you're falling.
- Sure. - So I don't think I'm ever going to feel like I'm going to stop ascending. I'm learning new things every day. And I had to trial this week.
And I had really beat down this other attorney earlier about a year ago, and I loved it. But they went out and hired a very seasoned trial attorney more than 25 years experience a lot more than me. And-- - So jack for jack.
- Ding ding. - Oh, nice. - It was in the battle. And, you know, I won the trial.
- Good for you, 'cause I never plan on losing.
And I won the trial and it was a great trial, but I learned significant lessons for it. He kept out some key pieces of evidence that it wasn't crucial to the case, but it killed me that I didn't get it in, right?
- Yeah, yeah. - So I mean, I don't think you're ever stop learning. And I am still working on internally fixing,
“you know, I'm not there where I think I'm done”
working on me. - Right of. - But I'm working now, not on just being a better trial or every day, but also building the firm and getting it to where I wanted to be.
- That's awesome. Let's rewind, 'cause I wanna-- it's almost like postpartum military depression where it's like, you're in this SOP, if you will, of like waking up, you're doing the whole thing,
and you're blood flowing. You're always pumping up. And then you leave that energy and then you're kind of lost. And a lot of folks, like personally myself, coming, leaving Rudy Moore and then coming back
and it's the energy shifts and you're kind of addicted
to the energy of like always going.
How do you teach anyone to apply that energy to their day-to-day job? 'Cause I'm currently building my SOP of like, what is the new day-to-day? What gets me out of bed?
- Well, I think that's one of the critical points you brought up is what drives you, what passion do you have to get up in the morning? And I could have went to, I don't wanna say, the normal route of being a contractor,
a lot of military guys, they leave the army, they go, did they become a contractor? - Sure. - I just couldn't get jazzed up for that. I couldn't get motivated.
“You have to have something that wakes you up”
and just gets you motivated every morning. And fighting for people that don't have the ability to fight for themselves, that's not too far from what I was doing in the military. - Yeah, for sure.
- Physically versus mentally. - Yeah, and fighting in court. So I thought that was something that I could do to have that same energy going forward. And I'll tell you, when I left the military,
the first thing I did is I Uber drove,
and I substituted thought. And, you know, what was part of substituting to Uber driving? - Sure, it was substituting for sure. - Especially those young kids.
Those the second greatest third greatest other toughest. I did great with the high schoolers, but 10th grade was really tough too, 'cause they didn't know what they wanted yet. But I only did that for a few weeks.
I got picked up to run some teams in Africa, so the State Department, you know, once the Chinese started going into Africa, we thought, "Oh, wow, Africa's important." So we started paying attention to Africa,
and I had a skill set where, you know, infantry, airborne, eranger, led men in combat. So I had that skill set that I could take a team of soldiers or ex soldiers and go train at infantry, army of Italians in Africa to fight there.
So I did that for up until the weekend before law school started.
“And it was the best thing that could happen to me,”
because, you know, that daily discipline, and then daily camaraderie, you have, also in your Uber driving, and you don't have it in it. - Yeah, it's just you and the radio and real lights. - Right, gosh, I remember we were going through
that significant change in my life where I was like flying the world and working out PlayStation, and I'm sitting in traffic, working for a tax guy. (laughing)
- Exactly. - And I'll tell you it was humbling too, you know, yeah. I remember a bicycle cop in Georgetown, just outside of D.C. right, I'm in Georgetown, and I'm getting yelled at by this bicycle cop
to move my bike or he's gonna give me a ticket or rest me and a beat. I thought, man, I just got done commanding like 600 or you. - Do you know, yeah. - And now I want to get out of the car
and put 'em over my years, thank 'em, but it was humbling to go from that high of being a squadron commander in the 101st of being, to being a, you know, an Uber driver. So in some ways, that was probably good for me,
but I didn't have the passion. - Sure, sure. - So over Africa, I started to get a little bit back, and law school was great. I really enjoyed actually going to law school,
but I still, it was when I started clerking for a sort of court judge. And, you know, the energy of I can't let him fail. So I can't get anything wrong. - Wow.
- That brought it back a little bit, but then when you really start helping clients out and you see that it doesn't matter if it's a criminal matter or a civil matter, it's their life.
So either way, they're depending on you, just like real similar to, you know, like guys in combat when we're on patrol. And they were, and I know that's a strange analogy, but they were counting on me to bring them home every time
we did a patrol, and same thing with the clients, they're counting on me to get them through a tough spot. So that motivates me, and that gives me the energy. So you gotta find your passion, I guess, as the answer. And if you have the passion, and then you set the goals,
I think whatever it might be,
Whatever area of your interest in it,
if it's doing podcasts, if it's filming,
my daughter's a communications major right now. - Oh, I don't want it. - I don't want it. (laughing) - You gotta find your passion, and she's not,
she's not in a job right now where she has her passion, but once you find it, it won't be a job anymore. - It'll just be joy, it would just be like, huh? - Yeah, my son, he's six years old. He was singing "Unmon Vacation" every single day or something.
I guess that's a song that's out now. - I don't know, probably the six seven's big two, I don't know what that's. - Six seven's. - What is three, what is six seven coffee?
It's 'cause I don't know what. - Yeah, okay, not in small. (laughing) - Well, his birthday is literally in four days, and we're having a birthday party,
and we're gonna have six of 'em, 'cause that's the thing right now, right?
“But he was singing that, and that's the key to life right there.”
If you go to work every day, and it feels like your own vacation, and it's not a job where you're grinding, then there's sometimes you're gonna have to grind, but that's the key to happiness. - So here's, that brings by line of questioning full circle.
For someone that's been in the grit, the suck of, if you will, and now you're, you know, clean cut, you're sued on, you're fighting a different war, things are good. Doesn't that kind of make your brain kind of freak out? 'Cause it's so constantly under attack,
that now that it's like, in peace mode, don't you find yourself having these bizarre anxieties that someone's just gonna take this all the way from you, and kick your white back into the army? - Well, do you have that fear?
- Well, you know, anxiety's a real thing, and it's why I'm asking for you. - Yeah, no, no, I could be anxiety, you know,
it's real, especially on first, right?
Like, I was a year into practice in my partners like, "Hey, do you wanna go argue in front of the Virginia Supreme Court?" And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." That's exactly what I said. But then the anxiety had, like, holy,
so the practice, and you know, lining up pictures of the Supreme Court justices, makes sure you got their names right. - Oh gosh, I need to be terrible at that. - I mean, I walked into court that morning
on mouth was so drunk, like, man, this isn't combat, why is it killing? But it was still, there's a lot of anxious moments. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Opening up the firm.
I mean, that was an anxious, making sure I can pay everybody's bills every month. That there's a lot of anxiety comes with all that, but it's definitely a different level.
“I think you have to do things to help with that.”
- One of the, as I do, I, you know, working out. - Just working out. Working out with a big, I coal plunge every morning now,
letting coal plunge down here.
I could've, I guess I could've went and jumped on the ocean. - He could've jumped for the one of the pools that has a frozen alligator in it right now. - Of course, yeah. - Yeah, I'm more to been coal enough,
but I usually go jump in the coal plunge every morning and just the discipline and the, - Yeah. - That helps me get through the rest of the day. You know, it's just that discipline, I think.
- Yeah, 'cause you've just entered a new mindset where you're not quite civilian, you're not quite in service, you're just kind of super hero mode. (laughing)
- You know, there's a lot of similarities to what I did in the military to what I do in the courtroom. There's still a battle plan. You still prepare and you're doing motions and you're planning for the battle.
And then just as, when you walk out the gate or you drive out the gate in Iraq or Afghanistan, now you're in, now you're in fight mode. Well, see as you walk in that courtroom, you're in fight mode too.
- Yep, yep. - So the enemy in this case is the opposing council, right? They get to say how the battle goes. And I'll tell you, again, that's very senior in the trial attorney last week, he definitely threw me
a couple of curves, and I had to react to. And I don't even know if I react to it's in the best, but I react to him well enough to get through, but it's that battle plan and then having enough flexibility to get through.
- Sure. - So that, I will tell you the other similarity, very similar to combat, is you come off a patrol and you know, our patrols last a day and we're between hours and days, right?
- Well, but you're exhausted, right? You're just gonna, 'cause your head's on a swivel in the entire time. And so you're looking for, you know, saw spots in the road, choke points,
where you might get ambushed, whatever, and it's going all day long. So when you come off, you just, you just completely crash the sleeper a couple of days. - Amazingly the only thing I could come to comparison
to that stress level and how it crashes you is the courtroom. - 'Cause you're in the same mode, you're listening to what the judge is saying, you're watching the jury, you're listening to opposing council, your clients, right in your notes,
and you're just in that mode all day long. So when you walk out of the courtroom, wow, I just wanna look for a bed. - Yeah, it's lost. - Yeah, and so it's the same kind of,
“and I think the only way you can really be good at that”
is by having some physical fitness and having some sort of discipline to keep your body moving in an direction, 'cause if I was in the same shape, I was going through law school,
I wouldn't, I just wouldn't be as good. - What's your daily affirmations? Like for folks that are watching and listening, and they're on the route, or don't know they're about to be cupped you,
what are some good tips or some daily affirmation? You mentioned the code baths. What are all the things, is it journaling, is it, you know? - So speed dating, (laughs) - I think I read a book, maybe.
I think I've read a book that,
Dating is a, it's a whole other new anxiety,
especially if you're doing online dating.
“I read a book, it was five-minute drill, I think it was,”
and she said something about 30, before 730, and one of the things is staying away from social media, staying away from anything, putting the phone aside, 'cause I'm guilty of it.
First thing you do when you wake up in a morning start
flip and write it wrong, you hit the snoozing, you just are snoozing through the snoozing. - Do I scroll through the snoozing? - So what I found out when I was first in opening up the firm is I felt like,
I was in React to Contact Mode. Everything was, I'd come into work and I was reacting, and instead of, and that's not a good way to run a business, too. So I started doing the 30, before 730,
and my 730 was actually like 630. - That's cool. - A little bit earlier, but I would do that that early morning drill of not watching, not getting on my emails, because if I did,
it would distract me from what I wanted the plan to do. So I'd plan my day that way. And the other thing I'd do is I try to batch my time,
hand, and on all of our important cases,
we have our clients picture in front of that. - Wow, it just reminds you, there's a soul behind this, there's a story behind it, there's somebody counting on you. - Yeah, and so that along with just planning my day
and focusing, that's gonna be my focus that morning. It helps, it helps move me in the right direction. - Right on, so let's go back to trial lowering, where if that's even a word, we give you the sentence. - Okay, well, cool, as long as you understand me.
(laughing) - But when you're sitting in that courtroom, how much of it really is just barren white walls and boring stuff versus what we see on television? These gorgeous and teak-addiquated court rooms
of the nice brown wood.
“How much of it is just a lot of boring white walls?”
- So, you know, depends on what courthouse you are. Believe it or not, the smaller courthouses are usually the nicer ones. - Oh, for sure. - Yeah, so they got some really nice courthouses
in Virginia and smaller ones, but I'm sure it's beautiful. - Yeah, it really is fancy in some of them, and you go from the mahogany wood to a more modern with blue and whites and other pastels, but it's not what I thought it was.
And I thought, I'll be honest, I went to school, I thought, I can get up in front of people and talk. I can lead people, and I think being a lawyer is similar to leading, 'cause you're trying to inform people and you're trying to get them to lead them
in an interaction, whether it's the judge or the jury. So I thought I can do that when I didn't know and where it wasn't good at was writing, all the writing. And that's the part they don't put in the movies 'cause it's boring. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- But you have to write a lot. - Really? - What are you writing about? Like motions on why this this principle should come in or why you get this area of a lot of attack somebody
or why this piece of evidence is relevant and critical.
- Sure, sure. - You write a ton, and in fact, the biggest thing I wrote since I went into law was that Virginia Supreme Court case. And here again, I thought I was my arguing was the key, and that's what I focused on.
- You're a good debate, but I went into the Virginia Supreme Court case and I didn't know at the time, but I'd already won the argument before started on my writing. Yeah, they'd already made their decision and they were asked into these crazy questions and I was like,
what if there was no law on this and I was just stumped, right? 'Cause I didn't have the experience. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I hope nobody ever listens to that 'cause you can look it up online, but what should they go through?
(laughing) Well, that might, my oral arguments that day were lousy, but my written ended up as what got through.
“And the only thing that you can do if you're an infantry”
grant like me has spent a lot of time doing it. - Yeah. - And so if I go through, we label everything in the firm version one through 15 through 20 and I'll put the initials in the end. So a lot of my emotions and complaints or petitions,
whatever I'm filing, we're in the double digits before it gets filed. So we're doing multiple versions through different eyes to get it just right and you don't see that and it's boring. - Yeah, yeah, and it all comes down to the word, the verbage. You don't say garbage, you say clutter or some little things like that.
There's all, why is that? Why is that verbal jujitsu so apparent in documents? - So that's the interesting thing is the psychiatry behind. - Yeah, you know, where you stand in a room to where they'll listen to you better.
And you know, I don't think I just went out to a conference last to fall, not just fall, but to fall before in Vegas and it was trial or university. And some of the best plaintiffs attorneys are out there given classes and I was like, oh my god.
- All right, well, let's just sit there watch the heart form, right? - Oh, it's beautiful. - Where they line up and what they're going to say and how they put them into the their clients mind and what happened.
And that's the art. And again, I hate to bring back full circle to the army, but you know, in the infantry world where I was,
We didn't have a lot of stuff to play with.
We had men, right? - Sure. - So we focused most of our time on the art of leadership. Where plaintiffs attorneys focus most of the time on the art of persuasion for the jury.
- Yeah, yeah. - And a lot of it's psychiatry. - Yeah, sure. - And so I think I'm pretty good at, but I'm pretty good not great yet, right?
- Yeah. - So you asked me, you know, what level I'm breaking through. - Yes, sir. - I want to be as good as the guys that were out there given those lectures.
- Yep. - And those were some serious stages. - Yeah, right? - That's a serious day. - And I don't think, you know, be honest,
I don't think most trialers go to that, push themselves to go to the next level. - Yeah. - They get the mechanics down. - Yes, they're right.
So they get the evidence put in, they know how to say things in the courtroom, but do they know how to influence the judge? They know how to influence the jury. And do they have that fight?
And I think that's the other thing, to be a good trialerity, you gotta have an edge too.
“You have to, I don't wanna say it's cockiness,”
but you definitely have to have confidence. And you have to have, like an arrogance about you, that you can take a bullet and keep going. - Right.
- There's gotta be a look about you.
Like, you don't, you never see Superman in,
in, in, in, in, in, in sweaters and jeans. It's like you've always think thing thing thing to you. There's a gust though, but. - Being alone. (laughing)
- I think the one thing that really helped me, was my clerkship, because I got it on go behind the curtain. - Yes, sir. - And I got to see all the, you know, you still give them the same difference and respect.
You realize every single judge, they still put their pants on one leg at a time, just let us. - Oh. - They're still human beings.
They make mistakes, but they also get most of the right. That's why they're judges. - Yeah. - So, but I went in my first day into the courtroom.
Actually, the reality is, I tried cases before I became a lawyer. - Interestingly. - Nice. - You've rolled plate.
(laughing) - In Virginia, they had this thing called
third year loss certificate.
If you have a senior attorney overwatching you and the client, let you, you can actually try cases. - Wow. - So, before I even clerked, I spent a year at the Arlington Prosecutor's Office.
Interesting gig, but I was able to try. I did seven bench trials and I was lined up to do a criminal, it was called a malicious winning, which is basically attempted murder in Virginia. I did a malicious winning case.
I was just about to give my opening statement, the defense attorney wanted this at all. So, it was the right thing that was at all right. I was kind of disappointed, but it was the right idea. How do you just stop yourself from going
into like a deep model, like, do you rehearse? - Yes. - You'll be open and like, the sentence and good morning. Good morning, good morning, like, I'm sure all that matters 'cause you want to catch the attention.
Like, how much of that is, it will wrap up here because I'm so fascinated by the theatrics of what's really happening. Which is why it's so captivating and watch show after show after show after show,
show try to replicate what you all do and these very eccentric ways of conducting business if you will. What I guess I can ask, what are some fun superstitions that folks kind of think that it's, this is what lawyers do?
Are you just sitting around waiting to shout out objection? Like, and how do you know, like, what are you listening for? Why are there, like, so many lawyers at a table? What's a good trial or a versus a bad trial or just give me
some fun facts? - Well, that's a good point. And I think a lot of, and there are lawyers that fall into this category, they think, and people will think, if you're not up there yelling and screaming
from you're not winning.
“But the reality of it is, is, and you have to do that”
times, and I will definitely push back on judges, respectfully, when I think they're wrong, but you gotta remember that judge and all the other judges, it's a small community and they see you.
- So what you want is you want them when you do raise your voice, or when you do get a little bit more pushy on it, then, wait, wait, this is Lloyd Smith, he doesn't do this unless it means something.
- So if you're always yelling, you go.
- Yeah, so if you're always yelling and you're always, your client's loving it, but you might not be as effective - No. - If you hold back. So I think, understanding, that's probably a myth
that people think that the more that you yell and scream. And, as it's like judge TV, like judge duty works, yeah. - Yeah, yeah. - You're going, I started to rough, but no, no, no, but that's exactly, the other real key
that I think is a next level thing. In clients inherently, because they don't spend time in the courtroom, they don't see it. It's either the jury or the judge, as you get a keen sense for how they're going on the case.
Sometimes, even when they're rolling against you, you realize you're winning. Because if it's a close call and it could go either way and you lose a couple on a row that could have went your way and it didn't, and you kind of got the feel of the courtroom,
you're like, oh my God, I'm winning this, because he just gave him something that doesn't matter now. - Wow. - So he gave him that, so a client's freaking out, right? 'Cause I, oh my God, I lost.
“And that's what happened in this last case.”
And it was important to him, and he's running, coming up to me saying, we need to settle, we need to settle right up to the closing bell, and I'm like, no, no, calm down. We're gonna find, and we were.
I noticed, being able to see how the judge is reacting
to things, and you don't learn that right away.
It's a skill set that you got to over time. And really good trialers, they'll go to these, like, I don't know, it's like the attic things, 'cause they delve into your body and your mind. And it's funny, 'cause I got to turn you back home.
She says, "Cleud, this is gonna help out with your dating.
“"You need to go to one of these, 'cause it's gonna help.”
"Make you a better person too." - Absolutely, I'm sure that invoice. - Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. (laughing) So, she wants to send me to this thing, but it really is,
I don't know, it's not just making that argument,
but it's having that the receptors, I guess? - Yes, sir. - To see how the jury's reacting, and importantly to see how the judge is reacting, whether it's a bench trial or a jury trial.
So, that's the myth, is, I guess, get up there and hauler and yeller. And he wanted me to, he wanted, he's like, get up there and object, object, and I realized I didn't need to, right?
- Go to life. - And so, the whole back, and they don't see that.
So, trying to prepare them for that's important also.
- Right, cool. So, wrap it up here, and feel like I will reveal the answer to this question. Why do you believe you were chosen as a next level, as I'm sorry, as an operation CEO?
- Yeah, good question. I think I got a great story. I hit those hard times, I hit a lot of hard times, and just pushing through that, and realizing it, I think it's just made me a better person.
And it's not, this isn't Brigadier, I made a lot of mistakes. One of the things I tell my children all the time is you get wisdom from learning from your mistakes, and that makes your dad one of the wiseest men on earth, 'cause I made a lot of mistakes.
So, but learning from those mistakes,
“and you have to own every single time you make mistakes.”
And there's gonna be times when somebody else is gonna be involved in that mistake, right? Like, last week, that attorney, he was really good at keeping stuff out, and I could have just fell back on that, right?
Oh, he was really good at keeping, no, no, no. If I would have done X, Y, and Z, that wouldn't have worked. So, you still have to own things, because it's your problem set, right? So, if you can own the problem set, no matter what it is, and it doesn't matter what outside factors it's your problem set,
then you will overcome that, and then get to the next level. Yes, sir? So, I guess, maybe that, and just the moving that same mantra I had in the military of having that endominable spirit to fight and win. Right on? I take that to the courtroom.
So, off of colloid. How can folks find out more about you have a website, social media account?
“Yeah, I got 'em all. I'm learning, and I think this is one of the things”
that if you guys are able to help people with this, is learning social media better. But I've got, I've got, start with my website via lawyer.law. Sir, via for Virginia lawyer.law. And on the top of the website, it has my Twitter feed,
my Facebook, my Instagram, all the stuff you're supposed to have. And I've started doing some videos, and I'm working on making that better. I think my daughter, hopefully, will be the one helping me with that. I'm sure your daughter will be very proud of you jumping on this podcast. You did very, very well, I'm excited for you and cofe to do your thing in the next studio.
With that, colloid Smith, colloid Smith, what is your firm? What does the name of your firm? Smith, trial law. Smith, trial law. There you go. All right, well, thanks for the conversation. I've got so many other bizarre trial questions I can ask. But, we're going to conclude this podcast with that.
With that, this is colloid Smith. I am Ray Gutierrez, and we are inside success. [MUSIC PLAYING]
