From Police Chief to Mental Health Reformer

people that police officers have to use deadly force again that are having a psychiatric crisis.

“So if you've got cancer or heart disease, I'm not going to shoot you. Well, mental illness is a”

disease, just like everything else. Oh, yes. I wanted to figure out a way that I could help reduce those deaths. Dr. Roy G. Taylor is a decorated military veteran law enforcement executive author and the founder of Taylor Consulting Group, drawing from more than four decades of leadership in the military and criminal justice systems. He helps organizations and communities strengthen leadership, accountability, and public trust. I'm aware of the abilities that I've been

given and I like to make full use of them and order to serve humanity so that people in the have interactions with the police, we want it to be positive and safe. People that feel like their civil rights are violated by the police. So my job is that I testify in the court

“in front of the jury to educate them on what should have happened and how police officer trained”

in what laws govern their conduct. Welcome back to another episode of the Living Year Legacy podcast for Insights Success. I am Riga Tiers. I apologize for this intro, but I'm quite intimidated sir. You are Dr. Roy Taylor. Our next legacy maker, sir, can you please tell our audience who and who are you what you do? Well, I'm Dr. Colonel Chief Roy Taylor, Dr. Criminal Justice, Colonel United States Army

Military Police Corps and an active chief of police and I've been in law enforcement for the past 45 years and a chief of police and federal state local and now private law enforcement agencies for the past 31 years. In addition, I use my knowledge and skills and training and education as a police procedure expert in federal court and mostly testify on 1983 cases which means a federal civil rights violation. Wow. Wow. You sir are just expert of this, which means you have lived

life. You've done the thing over and over again. Now you are this amazing expert, which is why you

“have these amazing titles and I salute you sir. How does one operate with that amazing level of expertise?”

What is your day-to-day like trying to be normal or do are you very self-aware that you have this like position? I'm aware of the abilities that I've been given and I like to make full use of them and order to serve humanity so that people when they have interactions with the police we want it to be positive and safe and sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes they're civil rights get violated by the police. Sometimes people make allegations against the police and simply are

true so I testify on either side but primarily on what we call the plaintiff side the people that feel like they're civil rights violated by the police. So my job is that I testify in the court in front of the jury to educate them on what should have happened and how police officer trained and what laws govern their conduct. Right on. How are things going out there with the subconscious of police officer? Is there a lot of physical training or is it a lot of mental training? What is

the exercise of the curriculum? One has to go through it to be a police officer in 2025. Well the awesome thing about the 21st century is virtual reality. So police officers are very commonly subjected to different scenarios in a virtual reality world where they have guns and handcuffs and nightsticks and pepper spray and tasers and they're put into real world scenarios that they may face on the street so it's one thing to set in a classroom and have some senior

officer person telling you how it is and what to do but it's a totally game changer to have

the ability to put people into real life scenarios where they'll actually pull the weapon and fire it if they need us there or use a lesson lethal weapon or engage. Now they're softwares getting so advanced they can actually have conversations with the virtual bad guys if you will. Yes sir. It requires a tremendous amount of emotional intelligence to believe be a polished quality police officer would you agree or disagree with that sir? No it does and you know it's

the challenge to hire the right type of people to be a police officer and you know not despairing against a marine because you know I'm a Colonel in the army or anything but you know a person that's been in the Marine Corps what is their job? Fine fix and kill the enemy.

sharp in their uniform we like for officers to look sharp in their uniform but that's really where the commonality ends so we really look to people that have the emotional intelligence like you said people that want to have an advanced degree and want to help society because the need to use force should be the last resort and we try to use verbal judo and other techniques to you know de-escalate the situation and resolve it without violence and hopefully resolve it without the need

to put them in the criminal justice system. I've always been curious because there was a small

moment where there was a trend of Facebook folks video taping themselves getting pulled over by officers and I was a being there there was like grotesquely so so like viral about it where it's like

“look at me talk to an officer this way and I get out talking about that that's how it's just like”

dude he's just doing his job he's running his procedures because you raised in the alarm like now you're raising that alarm even louder because you're being a fool like like how do you come back what culture thinks of the job that you do and the people that you protect that you just do that many more good things and you have to advertise that you're doing good things when I was a police chief in a small communities in North Carolina I made an effort to have at least one story in the local

newspaper every week and my goal was that they would get so sick and tired of hearing all about these

good things we did that they're one bad thing that happens they're gonna say well either not gonna pay attention to because they're tired of reading figuring it's good or they're gonna say well they do so many good things that they're entitled to have a mess up every now and then or be involved in a situation that may not be positive right on what do you think how does one become a police officer are you just do you just or I would not just say police are but how does no they want to serve

is there something that is born or something that is a culmination of events that lead them to

“serve I think it's an innate willingness to sacrifice your own self for the good of somebody”

else or to society when you take psychological tests you know we're probably categorized I mean it's a certain psychological profile that wants to serve so thankfully there are those people that want to do that just like we're thankful that people want to be doctors or clergymen I mean everybody has a certain path and if you give them the MMPI psychological assessment tool test they're probably gonna be it's very similar in all those different career fields wow walk me through the

psychological psychological warfare part of my pun here when as a marine ready to serve and die for country how does one prepare for death and romanticize it in a way where it's almost an ascension I want to die in the battlefield how does one indoctrinate that because we are human we are designed to live and be fruitful but as a marine you're designed to protect that philosophy how do you indoctrinate how do you make someone want to die for honor through honor and glory

and the you know elevation of those that died in the past I don't think anybody goes into the middle I would hope not anyway but a normal person goes in the military wanting to serve for their country and are willing to die for that but they don't want to die I didn't want to die for my country when I went to Iraq you know as an 18 year old in the Air Force back in the Carter administration when the Iranian hostage situation went off we had 52 Americans that were held for over a year

in Tehran well I'm a young 18 year old law enforcement specialist military working dog handler at Ellsworth Air Force Base South Dakota and I get called in the office one day and said you're now restricted to base the phone have been running twice before you answer it you know we're possibly going to war so you're going to be taking off law enforcement duties assigned to the kennel and we're going to start doing combat operations and one of the things we were told

go down to the CBPO which is the base personnel office and fill out a will 18 years old I mean you don't want even think about design 18 years old and I said you know I've got a car in a stereo that's that's all my worldly possessions I live in the barracks so you know that was the first realization that wow I'm in the Air Force and I could be sent to a battle zone where I could be killed wow and then an interesting side note to that is when I was little and I would say maybe five or six

“years old I had a dream that I fell in sand and blood out that I died and I remember that and so”

when I get activated to go to Iran for a war no I'm thinking oh my god there's this dream that I've

always remembered and I'm going to a sandy environment where I might die so when the the helicopter's

crashed and it was called Operation Eagle Club when they were going to try to go in and rescue the hostages when the helicopter ran into the C130 the mission was scrubbed and I thought to myself wow maybe that was just a stupid dream and then I don't have to worry about it but then 20 years later after 9/11 and I get mobilized in the National Guard to go to Iraq again or two of the first time

here and maybe I'll fall down drunk at Cabo and that's why I had to hopefully hopefully you know

“I don't go for a long time but anyway it's just one of those things that you know when you have”

that realization that you know there could be terminated that is caused for a reflection and say am I really doing the right thing and you've made that commitment you've taken an oath and you need to step forward and do what you've sworn an oath to do right on who Ross they say sir well I'll do respect like what is your mission today now like what is getting you out of bed you are in our studio we are all clearly enamored by your energy what is your hustle today

tailored long forcement consulting group I again that's the organization that I used to contract with attorneys to do these cases about civil rights and the one that really is

most passionate for me is dealing with the police shooting of people in psychiatric crisis

25% of the people the police shoot the die are in psychiatric crisis 41% of the people that don't die

“after being shot by the police are in psychiatric crisis I mean that's almost 60% of the people”

that police officers have to use deadly force against that are having a psychiatric crisis so if you've got cancer or heart disease I'm not going to shoot you well mental illness is a disease just like everything else and you can't help it and when we get call to you running around neck and with a pocket knife being taken three different times I've been going down I thought that video you're not you may not go down but you know you're running around with this pocket knife

and the police are trained you know well that's an edge weapon it could kill me so I'm going to

use deadly force and they just start yelling drop the knife drop the knife drop the knife well

what reality are you in yeah I mean what do you think the police officers may be a two-headed dragon or alien or it could be your fantasy about the CIA coming to shoot you that you believe so that officer is causing the escalation of the situation right just yelling a command when in reality what they should say is hey my name's Roy what's your name what are you going to do with that knife are you going to hurt me with that knife and you got to give them some reflection

and that's the of course an ideal situation I mean there's times when you get on seeing and get out and and as soon as you get out the car they come charging at you with a knife or they raise a gun that you can't tell if it's a real gun or a toy gun and you have less than two seconds to make a decision draw your weapon and fire those you can't control but there are a lot of them where the officers can de-escalate the situation by keeping their distance by waiting for back

up to calm by waiting for you know people like mobile crisis teams to arrive on the scene so

“that they can help facilitate a peaceful resolution so that's what I did my dissertation on when I was”

earning my PhD because in November of 2016 I had six cases of a police shooting death from around the country coming to my office for me to you know start working on and I thought wow I get patterned before but they kind of drizzle in but now I've got six so I started doing research and I found out it is a very prolific problem in the United States and I wanted to figure out a way that I could help reduce those deaths. Well good for you man because I almost feel like it's a

sneaky it's own tail like we weaponize these giant men and put them out to war and they come back broken now we've got these giant men that are broken designed for death in our streets and they're breaking laws that don't even understand why and now we've got these tiny men that are police officers trying to take out these it's just a whole brick a mural and here you come as a as a shining light figuring this out and and and protecting the good and and ascending the greater how does that feel

that's that is quite the responsibility sir that's a noble cause and I'm going to make my I want to make my small contribution to it I'm going to be changing the world while I hope so but I mean you don't have to go as no if we have to pause it but like you're doing your dissertation your goal and this PhD program is to find a gap in the literature and how are you going to fill that gap and it's the same way in law enforcement I've seen there's a gap in training

and I'm trying to fill that gap with different training less training because as a police chief I can't send you to a 40 hour class because now I've got to pay somebody over time to fill your play plus I'm paying you and your pridium to take the training there so if I can make that a 16 hour class I can send more people I mean at least I've imparted some knowledge of how to deal with psychiatric crisis people and how to you know deescalate it so that's my goal is to make the officers on the

street have that training so that hopefully it changes their behavior when they encounter these situations wow how do folks find and learn more about you sir Taylor consulting group dot org Taylor consulting

at dr dr de r dot org Taylor Dr Roy Taylor on YouTube well Dr Roy Taylor it's quite the honor

“I'm quite excited to have you filled me up so with Lauren and I have yeah it's gonna be exciting”

times thank you for your time and energy my friend this is Dr Roy Taylor and I am not a doctor

but I am regulatory as a podcast host and we are inside success