How a Hair Disaster Built a Celebrity Colorist

It is a process, but you do have the potential, you like you start out with minimum wage.

But then you end up, you have the potential to make more than a lawyer per hour. If you really want to, so it's such a big contrast from starting out to where you can go. Rick Wellman is a celebrity hair colorist, salon owner, author, and beauty industry expert with over four decades of experience. From celebrity clients to luxury salon in Rockefeller Center, Rick has built a career centered on artistry, transformation, and innovation. My parents wanted to send me to college and pay me to go to school.

And once they learned that I didn't want to go to school, I wanted to go to beauty school. You know, my dad was very against it. You know, that's a woman's job.

“I think that was one of the things that maybe inspired me to, you know, hey, I'm going to show you, this is not a woman's job.”

It spans the goal, like a super high school, internet Elvis. Today, Apple is going to reinvent from home. It's our home, our town, our queer. The living your legacy podcast for those who live to leave a legacy. Hey, and welcome back, everybody, to living your legacy podcast. I'll be your host again, Jason Langen.

And we're here in beautiful South Beach during the World Cup. There's a lot of stuff going on. And we got a special guest today. He's looking all flies. Got great shoes. He's got great hair. Cool shirt coming down from New York, right? So yeah, introduce yourself and tell us a little about what's good. What's going on? Thanks. Thanks. My name is Rick Wellman. I came here from New York City.

Nice. Which park? I'm in Manhattan. Okay. I'm in Manhattan.

I'm more specific for all the Manhattan.

So smack in the middle, have us along right in the middle right at Rockefeller Plaza. All right. So that's a little bit of the studio's radio city. We just host a big thing for the Tony Awards, glam pop up. Yeah.

That is New York, New York. Right. The tree lighting happens right there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every great.

Okay. So I'm from Connecticut. So, you know, been into the city a lot. Live there for a summer. Okay.

“He used to work kayaking tours on the Manhattan at the,”

you know, where the frying pan is? Yes. Right, right there. I was actually, it was, yeah. Little, you know, crazy story, but something happened there. And I had to become a lifeguard at the frying pan club.

Right. So. You saved somebody. Yeah. I didn't personally save anyone.

But I mean, it was just another lifetime. But yeah, I lived the whole new. And that was right before the Twin Towers. Right. So that was just give you some background.

Yeah. But I love New York. And so you're in the, and you're in the heartbeat of New York. Yeah. So what kind of people come into your into your salon?

Well, mostly it's business people. A lot of, we have a very, very loyal client's hell there. We've been in that location for 28 years. We like to congratulate four different companies. And it's a lot of, a lot of things going on.

A lot of business people, but you never know.

It could be a celebrity pop in there. Yeah. You know, usually encode me. And it's interesting in New York. People really don't care.

You know, their guest celebrity. They get their hair done too. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just like everybody else.

Yeah. And so I mean, 28 years. I mean, so much has changed in hair culture, right? In the past 28 years, right? So 28 years brings us to a lot like 90s, 80s, 80s.

Well, and that's, I'm just telling you.

“That's how long it's been at that location.”

I've been doing hair since 1982. All right. So yeah, this is like, not just hair culture, but like hair style. Everything. Very, very much.

Yeah. Yeah. Everything changes. And you go into the mail perms. The box star.

Oh, I have one. Yeah. I have the mallet perms. All right. Frost.

Okay. Mullet, the business up front party and the back. All right. All right. So everything's changed.

Yeah. And yeah. Actually, the mallet's coming back. It is. You know, you know what?

I was trying to grow in a little. Yeah. I just got to come off yesterday. It was becoming just too much. Too much party in the back.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not for me.

Okay. You know, once you've done it, yeah. It's kind of like, and walk it back there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But then there's like, you know, the hockey players and the cross players. They like a little flow in the back of their helmet. Yeah. It's almost like the the mallet also.

Yeah. All right. But okay.

Hair culture over the past, you know, 30, 40 years.

Like tell us about that journey up until today, you know. Oh, my gosh. It's changed tremendously from from the technology to the techniques to the way we. Market, you know, the salons. Yeah.

I do a lot of work with not just in the salon, but I also do a lot of work with different brands. Hair color brands. Okay. Yeah. You know, retail brands.

Yeah. So I, you know, I'm in the salon, which is a home other animal with real clients. And then sometimes they have to do models and celebrities for hair color campaigns. You know, marketing box of hair color. So it becomes a very interesting animal and combining the two.

My two experiences and knowledge is a big advantage because, you know, a lot of the.

“A lot of the success in hair color is honestly, it's not the box.”

It's not the tube of color. It's the person applying it. Yeah, of course. The application is so, so important. It's, it's, it's everything, right?

It's going to make a lot of money. You've got, you know, the, the Bali Ash, right? Yeah. It has come into full swing and get in that that gradient, right? Right.

It's so important, right? Yeah. Yes. I mean, where, where, where you start. I mean, it's, it's so important, right?

Yes. And, you know, Bali has just a huge request from a lot of clients because I think it's just. I mean, I'm an overly misused term. A lot of people don't know what it is. Yeah.

You know, it comes in the French term, sweeping. Okay. Painting. Yeah. And it's a technique.

It's not a color. You know, sometimes I'll come, oh, I went Bali Ash. And like, well, Bali Ash may not be right for them. Yeah. Yeah.

Be right for their hair. So, as a hair color, it's really our job to go and guide them into what is actually. Good for them. Customize for them. You know what?

I love that. You're right, because some of the best haircuts I've had actually were in Thailand. Yeah. And this dude, you know, I was introduced to him. And I used to have long hair for the longest time.

I used to have hair cut phobia, actually. And I'm being, I swear to God, right?

Because when I was younger, my parents always said, you got to cut your hair.

You got to cut your hair, right? And I always wanted like long hair, right? I was a little hippy kid, you know. So, I needed to long hair for as part of my identity. And, but, you know, my mom was like, you know, you always got to cut it.

And I was like, Mom, Jesus had long hair. You know, like, you think, right? And she's like, oh, Jesus and society today. You know, I was like, oh, man.

“So, when I got to college, I got fully long, right?”

But, you know, it took me so long to actually get to cut, right? And it took me my girlfriend at the time, well, in Thailand. She's like, hey, I'll take you bungee jumping if you get a haircut. And I was like, oh, man. Yeah, that's a deal I can sign in for you now.

So, yeah, we won bungee. And then I won't go in my haircut, right? Well, you know, it's interesting. You talk with it. And I think everybody has a hair trauma story.

Yeah. You know, I have hair trauma from, you know, my mom used to chase me around the yard. You know, trying to come my bangs because I hated the bull haircut.

You know, it was always crooked.

So I have trauma of, you know, these scissors coming at me. I know. I actually got into this industry. One of the things that inspired me and we talked about this on the show is my stepmother. When I was like 12 years old, she went and got a perm.

And she came back and, you know, it was all big and fluffy. And she took a brush to the top of it. And the whole top came off. Oh, my God. It was like, I'm like cotton candy.

A big thing of cotton candy and a lawnmower ran over it. And so, you know, she cried and cried. And, you know, I helped her nurse her hair back to help by putting in little braids. And then I started putting her color on the root. And, you know, I was 13 years old and I said,

I don't think you're supposed to put hair color all over like shampoo.

“I think you're just supposed to put on the root.”

Yeah. And so, I nurse her hair back to health. But I saw the emotional trauma. Yeah. It can create in people.

Honestly. You know, trauma or happiness, you know. So, I used to tell a barber. So, I got haircut full of his soap. Yeah.

So, this one barber, a friend took me to, right? And he didn't ask me, what kind of haircut I wanted, right? What he did was he, he just, like, he was on a chair with rollers, right? And he just rolled around my head kind of just looking around. And then, and then he just starts to go at it.

Right? And I just trusted the process. So, this is what I wanted. I just wanted to let go. Okay.

Right? And then he only used scissors, right? And he just, and he was like, this, like, Edward scissors and the artist, you know?

Yeah.

And I just kind of like, when I was able to let go that helped me release that phobia, right?

And then I get kind of that phobia comes back. When they're asking me, hey, what kind of, what number do you, do you do? Right? With the guard. Yeah, with the guard.

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know the numbers. I'm not the barber. You know? You've got to tell me, right?

And now you're making me second guess to you because it's like, you tell me what numbers? I don't know. Yeah, this is interesting. Because one of the things they teach is the salon to our staff and to upcoming assistance, you know, our associates is to, you know,

people are looking at us for guidance on my hair. So, you know, instead of saying, oh, how do you want your hair today?

“It's more of a consultation like, hey, you know, what's important to you?”

Or how are you feeling? Yeah. Tell me about the history of your hair. And then you come up with those decisions of how to execute the haircut. Yeah.

Rather than them guiding you through it, it always turns out better.

And if you give an artist freedom to paint, just give a feeling, give a direction. And let them do their work. Let them cook. Let them cook, right? That's when it turns out best, you know?

Yeah. So yeah, you're really into coloring, right? Yeah. So, uh, tell us about the world of coloring. Have you done like shows, right?

Like, there was a big thing with like hair shows. And they, there's like the theatrics on this and this excitement. So that, that's where kind of the culture has gone to. But is that still been today or that was like a thing? You know, it's not as big today.

I think as we have Instagram and all these different social media outlets that people can watch and see. But before when you had nowhere to go to see, you had to go to hair shows. Hair shows were, oh my god, they were the highlight of the year. Yeah. And I actually started out in the 80s.

You know, I jumped in and started helping out Pul Mitchell when he was alive. Yes. On stage. And, you know, I was scared to death to be on stage. You know, I could do the hair, but I couldn't talk.

Once they got the microphone to me, I just froze. But so it took me a long time to be able to speak. I mean, I still, I still have, I'm, I'm great at doing the art. But the speaking stuff can be, can be hard for artists. Um, and I also did big, big shows in, in Hair Brazil.

Uh, I got sent one year to Hair Brazil. Okay. Which, oh my god, it's like, Hair Brazil. It's in Brazil. It's in Brazil.

It's in São Paulo. Yeah. And I was the highlight of the show and had to create a whole theme and music and everything. And it was, it was beautiful. It was, um, you know, I got to the, the theater was, I don't know, thousands of people.

And they are all, you know, yelling, he, he, he, he, he. And I'm like, who are they screaming for? Who's he? Yeah.

“And I realize that's how Brazil, in Portuguese.”

That's how they say Rick. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Okay. I'm like, look at it. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

But you know, my thing is always beautiful hair.

You know, I'm not one of these shock and all people. I mean, I've been to some hair shows where, wow, you see some shock and all, you know, I've been to ones where they use lighters to, you know, cut people's hair and a broken bottle of glass to soften. It's kind of funny.

It's entertaining. But, you know, I, I'm, I'm more about the reality of think of hair. You know, I don't want to do a show or teach somebody stuff that really doesn't work. Yeah. You know, behind the chair.

And so what, with color, I've seen some amazing things on, on Instagram these days, where, uh, where they don't move their head and on the outside, it's like, you know, like a blue, right? A pink. But then they do like they move the hair and then the inside is like full on rainbow.

Yeah. Yeah. Those panels, those peekaboo underneath panels, which, which are fun and they're visually great. You know, the only challenge for Instagram.

Well, you know, yeah, the sustainability on those is difficult. Like how do you retouch that?

“How do you, you know, and here's the thing I tell people to,”

hair color is a chemical. It is not like a tube of lipstick that you can watch off. Yeah. So once you make those decisions with those chemicals, they're going to be in there for a while, and they're not that easy to change. So I would say we make your decisions wisely.

If you want to keep your hair long, you know, if you're ready to shave it off and start over, then you don't have a ball. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then you get into the whole maintenance of hair and kind of like,

you know, the bleaching with just so much damage to your hair. You know, so I went from dying my hair black, right? Because I went gray at a pretty young age.

I started seeing my first gray hairs, right?

Yeah. And then, you know, got all salt and peppery and like my, you know, low 30s. And like now I'm like full blown gray. And I'm just beautiful though. It looks great. Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's great because it got in trend.

“I hit gray at a younger age. And now it's in trend, you know?”

Look, I had it in trend during COVID. You know, because people were almost forced to not color the hair. Yeah, yeah. So it became a trend. And then some people realized, oh, it actually looks good on you. So what, my, I had a plan, right? So my plan was, you know, I, I let my, my roots go.

So now I'm at like an inch, you know, of like gray to like black die. Right. But in between. Yes. So then I was like, you know what, let's bleach it blonde. And then going from blonde to gray, right? Like people will see that the chin from from black to gray. Oh, that's cool.

And then I can like ease, ease into the gray full gray. For blonde, right? So that was my plan, right? Yeah. But going from dyed black to blonde, that's a process. Well, that's like, you know, then the hair damage, you know, like my, my hair felt like a brew. I do, you know.

Yeah, it's a long time for it to nurse it back to help. Yeah. Yes. What you had, what you did was called, we call it gray transition. Oh, yeah. It's actually a technique that we do in the salon.

And, and most of the time, it's not something that happens in one shot. So it's a transition. It was also, it's a piece of, yeah, a couple of visits to tweak it and, you know, get it to really lock in. Yeah.

“And fit with your own gray hair, you know, that's naturally going in.”

And if that's the goal, you know. Yeah. So I mean, I guess I was doing a thing, you know, maybe I started this thing. You're so ahead of the curve. I know. Because I, because of the hair phobia growing up, I had to like learn these things by myself.

Because I wasn't just in the barber, so I kind of just like, you know, right there in some things. Yeah. What I mean is comfortable with, you know. There's certain things you can't do at home. You know, like, or I don't suggest doing at home.

That's, you know, gray transition, like leave that to me. No, actually rational. At the stone, you know, yeah. Bleaching and toning also is kind of, can get, you know, there's, it's tricky. And, you know, I've seen, you know, I, the biggest areas of breakage and hair damage

and people's hair falling out is either, you know, bleaching it. Or sometimes it's just overlap of color, like black, black, black, black. And it sounds like you are like, you're like, you're like, no in between. You're like one of the other. You're like either go for the black or go for the silver.

You know, there's no between for you. And that's like a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah.

“So those two things, you know, those extreme colors.”

You've got a, you know, put a little more thought into it. Which sounds like you said, you've, it looks, you're going to hear to fall out. You know, no, but it, it was like the straw man, you know, because I was still keeping it long. And then I did the Justin Bieber sweep. Right.

Oh, my God. While it was blond. Yeah. So I can, you know, cut off half the straw hair and then shorten it a little bit. Yeah.

It was like a whole transition. Right. From, from black to gray from long to short. Yeah. But yeah, that's fine.

That show. Yeah. That's how it can be fun, you know. It's fun. Right.

But it's also, it's really important. Because it's a frame for your face. So it really can carry a lot of power. You know, so a lot of people, it is their power. Yeah.

Well, I know a lot of women. It's like their main. It is their, their priding glory. Yeah. You know, so.

And it's, you know, and I, you know, a lot of, you know, like common thing to is, is hair loss. That's something we don't talk about a lot. But, you know, it's, it's something a lot of women go through. A lot of women go through a lot of men go through.

And, and all those things, you know, and that's another big trend. Like the, the Chinese dancer that has the ball and then he puts on the different wigs. Oh, have you seen that wigs are a big thing.

They always are a big thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. You know, I mean, I did a lot of work when I first moved from New York with,

Um, on Broadway actually went to a wig. I went to a wig academy in Hollywood. All right. Um, and I learned like wigs, period wigs and lace front wigs and all the different Arab wigs, which was really fun.

And then I went to New York. I'm originally from Ohio. But so I did all this education in between and, and then I ended up in New York. And I did some hair for Broadway shows wigs. You know, wigs for Broadway shows.

Yeah. I didn't wigs on, I was on the Rocky Horror Picture Show doing wigs for Rocky Horror Picture. And Joan Jet. I don't remember Joan Jet. Oh, man.

I'm gonna date myself here. You would know the song if I heard it. Okay. If you heard it. But anyway, I'm not gonna sing it for you.

But she was in it. Lea Delaria and other actress.

But, um, yeah, I started out doing wigs and then working in a really, really amazing salon,

which had like, you know, I walked in and like my first week of work.

Uh, these are keys we can hair berated and Heidi Klum was there.

“Nobody knew her and then she was a brunette.”

I see you do braiding as well. And yeah. Well, actually, I started this. I thought it's how I disguised my stepmother's hair when I'd all broke off on the topic. I did little micro braids.

You know, when in to little beans on the end. So I made it look like bow Derek from 10 to the movie 10. Yeah. Okay. You know, she is. Yes.

Okay. So, yes.

I, uh, I've always been very,

it's a natural for me. You know, I always paint it as a kid. It's always creative. So doing hair color and hair was kind of an easy thing for me. And, you know, my parents wanted to send me to college and pay me to go to school.

Yeah. And, you know, once they learned that I didn't want to go to school. I wanted to go to beauty school. Yeah. You know, my dad was very against it.

You know, that's a woman's job. And we're not going to pay for that, you know. So, okay. Then I'll go work at a restaurant and pay my own education. Well, it's so for you. Good for you.

“I think that was one of the things that maybe inspired me to, you know.”

Hey, I'm going to show you. This is not a woman's job. I don't know. It makes a money on this, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You showed them. I'm sure. Yeah. I felt really well. You know, unfortunately, my dad's passed away.

My mom, oh, she's super happy, you know. But, but, yes, you know, I'm happy. I love it. Yeah. And I think, everyone, my family is very proud of me.

And I'm proud of myself, you know. I've, I've, it's been a really good career for me. Yeah. You know, and a lot of different avenues. Not just getting more and more exciting, honestly.

It really is. Yeah. And what are you most excited about in the future of the industry? Hmm. You know, for me right now.

I mean, because I've done so much of my career. And I know how to be very successful and busy behind the chair. I make a lot of money. Now, for me, kind of exciting is kind of helping and coaching. The staff to become to still keep their arts, but also manage a business, you know.

Yeah. I don't like to see people struggle, you know. Yeah, yeah. I kind of like, I like to share. I like to share what I've learned and experienced.

And because this is an industry where I'll be honest.

A lot of, you know, a lot of students out of beauty school, you know, they quit their first

group for years, because it's not, you're not going to make money right out of the gate. Yeah. It is a process. But you do have the potential.

“You're like, you start out with minimum wage, right?”

But then you end up. You have the potential to make, you know, more than a lawyer per hour. Yeah. If you really want to. So it's such a big contrast from starting out to where you can go.

And it's fun to see the progress in people. And help people fly their barbers around the world. You know, yeah, be with them. I'm just that perfect guy. Yeah.

I am sometimes amazed that, you know, I mean, I had a, I got hired once to do a celebrity's color. Here, Miami. And she had heard about me and was recommended to me. But she wasn't sure yet.

She wanted to meet me first. Yeah. Before she made the decision of me to let her color. Let me color her hair. Yeah.

So she flew me down to Miami. And invited me to her house super lovely. Very nice. And she's, we sat outside by her pool.

And she said, um, I just want to read your energy first.

Yeah. Before make the decision. Mister. Oh, I'm tapping into that. I think it was.

She had some trauma. You know, yeah. So she got a bad hair. Yeah, the past. Don't fuck it up.

Yeah. I guess she, she brought out a bag of rocks shook him up. All right. And rolled him in front of me and pushed around. And she said, this is really good.

You're rocks are really good. And then she said, when's your birthday? And I gave her the date. And she goes, that's my son's birthday. She goes, okay.

You're hired. Oh, wow. When can you color my hair? And so, you know, we had a very, very long-term lawyer relationship for a long time.

She was a brand-sposed person for a hair color brand. So we did a lot of commercials together. And a lot of traveled all over the world. You know, and I get hired to travel all over the world. To with brands for, you know, big hair color campaigns.

Yeah. So that's just another side of things I do. And those kind of jobs I look at as bonuses. You know, my bread and butter or my clients and my chair. Those are my people that I rely on.

They rely on me, you know, every four to six weeks. It's like clockwork. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, the commercials or the other freelance projects or something. Does that turn into less artistry those, you know,

because, yeah, people go to the barber shop.

They're, they're talking, they're, they're talking up. Yeah, and it's more than just, you know,

“there's different aspects to being a barber, right?”

And then just cutting the hair, right? There's the relationships. Right. There's the artistry, right? There's just a whole professionalism of keeping on top of the trends

and on top of the technology and the colors and everything, right? But yeah, I mean, that's a good question. You know, the, no, even just a basic, it sounds basic. A single process, you know, woman comes in every four to six weeks. Like clockwork to your roots.

There's an art to it. Like there's an art to making a woman. And there's, that's the reason they come to you. If it were a monkey could put it on, they'd go anywhere. Yeah.

You know, but doing a single process and making it look like a highlight is something that takes a very trained, skilled person to be able to do, making a one color, not look like it's one color. Correct. You know, make it look like you're not touching off the roots.

Yeah, you know, you're touching off the roots. You know, you're only working with that little bit. You gotta let it fade properly. You can have it lines and it's right.

“So every time you do color no matter if it's a every four to six week routine.”

Yeah. And you're still looking at the color and adjusting it because depending on and in New York, especially winter, summer, you know, whether they're, their water, how much they spend time with the beach. It shifts and changes.

And a lot of times women in New York like to change it a little bit. Recently, they might have a little more Auburn in the, in the fall. And they might add a little more blonde in the summer or spring. Yeah. So even though it's still four to six week client,

we still do a consultation and decide which direction we're moving it. And I'm sure if they don't get compliments during that four to six weeks,

you know, like it's always nice to receive the compliments of,

hey, yeah, nice hair, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. You know, I have a client. This is a funny, this is a funny story. She's a regular client mind when we're talking about single process. And she walked outside, you know, dinner here.

She's a brunette. You know, pretty and pretty hair. And I color her blue dress. It looks so good. And she walked outside, you know, right in Rockefeller.

And she texted us, oh my god, Rick. I just got a compliment from Chris Rock. Hey, he said, oh my god, I love your hair. She's just walking like this a lot.

“And she's, I mean, I always remember that, like she walked down,”

got a compliment about her hair from Chris Rock. Yeah, yeah. You know, so yes, it really does. And you know, it's funny too, because sometimes that's how people, you know, they'll say, oh, so and so said something about my hair.

And, you know, because sometimes this, you know, women can be a little insecure also about their hair. So one little comment from someone can make them rethink their hair. You know, but I would still be a little consider the source.

Like who said it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, how's her hair? Yeah, how's her hair? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, he's an alabacanic. I mean, you know, you got to take fashion advice from him? You know, like, I think about the source before you think it's so hard, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I'm sure I could sit here and talk for another 20 minutes or whatever. But yeah, how can people find you? Well, I'm on Instagram, Rick Wellman. Okay. Or the name of the salon is the salon project.

All right. Right in the middle of New York City. So. How many chairs is your salon have? We have 12.

So it's a really nice comfortable space, not an overwhelming. It's, you know, and we're on the third floor. So what's the vibe? I'm sure this is your own salon. It's open.

It's light. It's eclectic.

It's, we also have, oh, we have these amazing head spa chairs.

So we add those recently. So we're kind of in the middle. We did that in Vietnam. Oh, my God. Amazing.

The shampoo head massage. I used to go in there just for the shampoo. You have the massage. Yes. We have people that come in there.

We have a private room also. Amazing. For people that want a private one. It's like it's like a facial for your scalp. Yes.

The relaxation and the, it's amazing. I don't know how to describe it. But we get people now in midtown that are so, so busy and they just cover. We have this little, you know, little oasis, you know, in the middle of Rockefeller. You could come up and shut the curtain and go in a private room and get a head spa.

Yeah. And so it's starting to catch on. You know, but my main thing is hair color. But, but even the, you know, healthy scalp. When you have a healthy scalp, the color takes really well.

You don't have any build up on the scalp. Yeah. You know, nothing interfering. So the combination is actually really well.

It's a, it's a private space set above, you know.

“We have, we can overlook, you know, Rockefeller Plaza and the tree without being in the crowd.”

You know. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's a high, a security building because it is a landmark building.

“So you have to show ID to get in and the clients do too.”

So they actually feel kind of safe. And they're also nice.

Well, I'm sure it looks amazing because the way you're dressed, you know, you got a good sense of fashion.

“And I'm sure the place looks, you know, trendy and cool.”

And yeah, totally looking forward to your episode. And thank you for joining us today. It's a great talking to you. Yeah, you too. All right.

Well, thank you for joining us also. And we'll see you next time on living your legacy podcast.

And this is one of the first guests that I've had for Beauty Maker Show.

And I am totally looking forward to it. And getting more guests. But thank you guys. See you next time.