The Investigation Report | BONUS

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Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors.

Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. [MUSIC PLAYING] I've seen something in the road.

I guess the late doctor was sleeping then. Then there was a pool of blood. Somebody somewhere, no shelter. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two is out now with new episodes every Thursday.

Listen on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Earners, let's up. Look, money is something we all deal with. For financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.

On each episode of the podcast, earn your leisure, we break down the conversations

“you need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.”

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and generational wealth, our goal is simple. Make financial literacy accessible for everyone. Because when you understand the system, you can start to build within it. Open your free "I Heart Radio" app, search "Earn your leisure,"

and listen now. Hi, I'm Iris Palmer, host of the Against All Odds Podcast. Every week, I'm sitting down with exceptional people who have broken barriers, even when the odds were stacked against them.

Like Chef, Victor Veea, of VS Tacos. You know that I get old from the bad bunny half-time show? It was great. It was a big moment. It was special, and I felt like I was really representing

my family, my brand, my city. I was representing Autoceros, not only of the US,

but of Mexico, and beyond.

All the Tacos of the World. Listen to Against All Odds on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Dr. Maya Shanker, a cognitive scientist, and host of the podcast, a slight change of plans.

A show about who we are and who we become when life makes other plans. I wish that I hadn't resisted for so long. The need to change. We have to be willing to live with a kind of uncertainty

that none of us likes. You can have opinions. You can have, like, a strong stance. And then there's your body. Yeah, having its own program.

Listen to a slight change of plans on the "I Heart Radio" app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. [MUSIC PLAYING] Hey, it's Stephanie back with another bonus episode. In May 2025, Laura Owens was indicted

on seven felony charges in the state of Arizona. Those charges were all related to her conduct with Clayton Eckard. The Maricopa County Attorney's Office shocked everyone when they released a 118 page investigation report,

detailing the evidence they found to support those charges, which you heard about in episode 10. Last week, I caught up with Clayton's attorney, Greg Woodnic, to dive into the jaw-dropping investigation report, a little deeper. [MUSIC PLAYING]

So in episode 10, we obviously talk about the investigation report that the Maricopa County Attorney's Office released. It was released in January of 2026.

“I guess my first question for you is, did you read it?”

And as you were reading it, what stood out to you? So much of it stuck out to me. But more than the data that I was reading from the investigators was how I felt it was just unbelievably affirming to see that what we had suspected for so many years,

but was so much worse than we suspected. Is it normal to see an investigation report like this? I see investigative reports all the time, because I defend people. And when you defend people, you're entitled to see the work

product of the investigators. So I see these sorts of reports all the time. This was particularly detailed. And obviously it was extra interesting to me, because I've been dealing with Clayton previously, Greg,

and had gotten to know Michael Maricini and even had knowledge of another victim. So seeing this in writing was quite something. This is obviously a very cumbersome investigative report. There are 118 pages.

There are a lot of interviews in here, including Clayton, Greg Gillespie, Laura's mom, Jan Black. I don't see an interview on these pages from you.

“Did you do an interview with the Maricola County investigators?”

I didn't formally interview with them, but obviously I knew that there was no open investigation. You were also listed as a witness for the upcoming criminal trial. How did they tell you that you're a witness?

Like, how did you find out that you were on the witness list? I think I saw it the way everyone else did. The document became public. I saw my name there, and I was absolutely not surprised. It was obvious to me that they would listen me as a witness.

Whether or not I testify is a different question and certainly not a decision that I get to make it's a decision that the prosecutor makes,

I will testify truthfully and answer questions

to the best of my ability. There were 64 people on the witness list. I was surprised to see that many names on the list. Were you surprised to see that many names?

“I think it's a testament to how many people have been involved”

and harmed by the behavior. Just because there's 64 people on this witness list, that doesn't mean that they'll all be called a testify, right? No, in fact, I think sometimes prosecutors list. Everyone, they're supposed to share all potential witnesses,

and I'm assuming that's what they did. It's very possible that I don't get called. But if the trial does go forward, I think a decent amount of those people may be called as witnesses, and all depends on how the trial plays out.

As you're reading through these 118 pages, you obviously said that a lot of the things that your office

had looked into were affirmed once you read that.

Was there anything specifically that really stood out to you? Three letters, HCG. And what was interesting in there about the HCG? I think Laura is going to have some explaining to do. Sure, she choose to testify.

As we go through the investigation report, there's a lot of instances where the deposition you did with Laura on March 1st was cited. How does it feel that your deposition and your questioning showed up so many times?

We didn't know what we know. That's the odd thing about this. I brought Laura in for a deposition to ask her questions. We obviously knew about Michael Maricini. I obviously knew quite well about Greg Gillespie.

I was shocked to learn about Matt. I mean, just shocked to learn about Matt, which is weird, because we suspected there was someone else, but her blase presentation about there being a fourth man who had accused her of fabricating a pregnancy

or whatever her testimony was was a bit shocking. I remember turning to Isabelle and locking eyes with her wondering if that actually had just happened. I don't think that's captured on the audio of the deposition transcript, but I remember literally being like, what the fuck just happened.

“I think we actually took a break and walked into my office”

and discussed it because we were both so, like, how does four men who have claimed this? The fact that the deposition is important to the investigation, I mean, I'm glad I could provide it. I just did what I normally would do in a deposition,

which is we prepared for it. I knew what we were going to ask, and the territory that I was going to cover, don't know that Laura should have answered all the questions that I asked her, maybe that's a better question.

I've kind of been surprised along the way that she hasn't taken some advice and in folk. I think I advised her during her deposition two or three times that she didn't have to answer questions and that the answers to her questions

could be used against her in a criminal process. A lot of times when people are faced with the prospect of felony prosecution, they choose not to answer questions, and they invoke their Fifth Amendment, right? But Laura did not do that in the deposition,

which I think was probably tremendously helpful to the investigators. - Something else we see in the investigation report is that the pregnant belly video was her sister Sarah's. We also see that the ultrasound that she used

was her sister Sarah's. That being said, I know you spent years investigating this in your office for Clayton's case. Did you ever speak with Sarah?

- I never spoke with Sarah.

“- Did you ever try to reach out to her sister Sarah?”

- Of course, of course I did. I think I sent her a couple of emails. - And no response? - No, no response. - Greg Woodnik emailed Sarah Owens Navarro

on February 26th, 2024. I'd like to share an excerpt from that email. Here's what Woodnik wrote. As I trust you are aware, my office represents Clayton Eckerd and the legal matter involving your sister Laura Owens,

currently pending in Arizona. I am assuming you do not wanna be involved in this mess, but I think you may already be and are not aware. While I am sure you know some of what is occurred, multiple men have alleged that your sister

fabricated pregnancies and medical documents to support her pregnancy fiction. In the current matter, your sister reached out directly to the media claiming that Mr. Eckerd was ignoring her quote-unquote twins.

Paternity tests failed to confirm a pregnancy existed. While the media attention she initiated, caused other men to find one another and compare notes. Those notes show a pattern of fake pregnancies as a ruse to force relationships,

including Laura creating relationship, quote-unquote contracts, assuring promises of an abortion if these men agreed to date her and alleged falsified medical records. While of course you bear no responsibility

for the behavior of your sister, it has been brought to our attention that Laura has presented videos that upon close inspection, appear to be of use celebrating your pregnancy at roughly 25 to 30 weeks with your father, Ron,

Laura's actions are about to land her

“with very unpleasant legal consequences,”

including possible criminal perjury charges. Just to put this into perspective, this email was written four months before Clayton and Laura's family trial and over a year before Laura was indicted on felony charges,

including perjury in the state of Arizona.

Sarah never responded to Woodknick,

but we know she received the email. That's because of freedom of information act request, uncovered a bar complaint, Laura filed against Greg Woodknick. In that bar complaint,

Laura acknowledged that her sister received an email from Woodknick. There was another part of the investigation report that I wanted to talk about with Woodknick. It involves the allegation Laura made to the judge

in Greg Gillespie's case, where she speculated that Woodknick and Greg Gillespie orchestrated a violent sexual assault against her. Laura's mom, Jan Black, was interviewed in the investigation report,

and we see all of the details.

“Something that stood out to me was Jan's story.”

She told investigators about what happened to Laura

in March of 2022 when she alleged that you and Greg Gillespie were involved in an alleged rape. So I wanna read this part to you in the investigation report from Jan Black's interview. Ms. Black Owens told us that Laura ended her relationship

with Gillespie in August 2021, and then in February 2022, Laura connected with a guy on Bumble, a dating app. He and Drew lived in Hoboken, New Jersey, but said he was going to relocate to Scottsdale.

During their video chats, Andrew suggested that she traveled to Hoboken to visit with him, knowing that her sister Sarah lived in New York City. I asked if Sarah knew Andrew beforehand. Ms. Black Owens indicated not.

Laura decided to go to Hoboken to see her sister. Ms. Black Owens stated that Andrew was very particular about the time of Laura's arrival and that she takes public transportation instead of an Uber. Laura arrived at the door and Andrew answered

“while on the phone and handed her a drink, as prearranged.”

Laura consumed the drink, felt that she was drugged, and then violently assaulted, according to Ms. Black Owens. Ms. Black Owens feels that this was a targeted attack, which coincided with Mr. Woodenick's ultimatum to drop the suit against Gillespie.

Ms. Black Owens recounted Laura's description of the evening, and her opinion that the attack was live-strained. I told Ms. Black Owens that I understand that this is part of the big picture, however, it's outside of the purview

of what we're investigating. Laura contacted the Hoboken Police Department and spoke with a detective. Laura reported that she was afraid and did not wish to name Andrew in the police report.

Ms. Black Owens indicated that the FBI is involved in the case and provided further detail of this. Ms. Black Owens told us that the assault occurred in March 2022 and that Andrew text Laura again in November 2022 said that he was in Scottsdale and asked if she wanted to meet.

Laura feared that Andrew wanted to "finish the job." Ms. Black Owens stated that all this comes together at the time of the trial with Gillespie. Laura was frightened and sent correspondence to the court requesting to appear virtually,

indicating that she believed that Mr. Woodenick and Gillespie were involved in her attack. Ms. Black Owens reported that the court sent this request to Mr. Woodenick also. Ms. Black Owens feels that Mr. Woodenick and Gillespie

wanted to damage Laura's reputation to make her seem as if she were an unhinged, crazy girl if she were to testify. So this goes back to this allegation from Laura that you and Gillespie were involved in an alleged rape

in Hoboken in March of 2022. We heard about that in episode five. After hearing that, my question for you is this the first time you've heard all of these details that were attached to that.

- It's bullshit. I don't know other words than this is just not true. I contacted the police. I contacted the FBI. My office obviously concerned with the allegations

tried to find out what the hell Laura was talking about when she wrote that letter to the judge and none of it bore out. None of it.

I was never contacted by the police.

I was never contacted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and I had contacted them inviting them to come talk to me about these ridiculous and horrific allegations. None of it was true. That did not happen and certainly if something bad happened

to Laura, which I was not there, I personally don't believe any of that is true, but certainly I wasn't involved in it. If it was true, I'm sorry. I'm sorry she had something horrible happen to her. I don't think it happens, Stephanie.

I think it's an entire lie. - Is there anything else from the investigation report that you want to talk about? - My general comments on the investigative report

It's important to me, Stephanie,

that if Laura wants to take this to trial, that she has the most fair trial possible. I want her to have a great trial. I want her to have a great defense to her trial.

“I believe that is a true believer in the system.”

Our criminal justice system is excellent. She'll have an opportunity if she wants to testify in front of a jury of her peers and answer questions. Or she can just invoke and not answer questions. I don't know what her choice is going to be.

Up until this point, she has testified and she said some pretty, "aggregiously inconsistent statements," I think, which is the predicate of her being charged with perjury. But I hope she has a fair trial

and that there's a just resolution and a just consequence. If she went to trial and she got acquitted because a jury of her peers felt that the state

did not meet the burden, so be it.

I'm a believer in the system, that's okay. I don't think that's gonna happen. I think the jury is gonna look at her statements and the records and the video that they found and the physical evidence that they found

and her prior testimony and I think she's gonna be convicted of multiple felonies. That's my belief. - Obviously Clayton is listed as a victim in the criminal proceedings.

You have also been someone that has been affected by Laura's fabricated stories. You're not listed as a victim, but what does justice look like for you? - I'm not a victim here,

but undoubtedly I've been impacted by Laura's allegations. I've supposed to have thick skin because of a lawyer, whatever, but it impacts other people. I mean, obviously it impacted my family. I talked about that and I went and I listened to your episode

and I heard myself get emotional

“and the truth is it was really fucking emotional.”

It sucked. It really sucked when it happened, but it's not just me and my family that got impacted. There are other people hearing how that impacted Danielle was so much different to me than hearing it from Michael.

I know Danielle, I've spoken to her before, but hearing her have that intimate conversation with you, expressing how it impacted their family, Michael's career trajectory just causes me to think of all the other collateral people

that have been damaged by her just verbal diarrhea of lies and allegations and the lack of accountability. - I really thought this conversation was important to have with you today. You have been kind of a main character throughout this podcast

and I just wanted to tell you thank you for your time today. And for kind of walking us through a lot of the complicated legal matters in this podcast. But thank you. - I appreciate that.

I don't think I ever wanted to be a main character in this story. I didn't know what we were getting involved in. And I think back Stephanie to early days with Greg Gillespie in my office. And the correspondence that Laura was sending

in the allegations she was making long before she suggested that Greg and I were involved in some sort of orchestrated rape. Apparently now I'm learning in Hoboken. I didn't even know that.

And I remember thinking then that this story was insane if I only knew. If I only knew that given time we would find these other victims would come forward and want to participate in this process.

If I only knew that the social media world was going to find this story as fascinating as they did, if I only knew that this organization loosely associated

JFC was going to be these amazing detectives

helping with data collection. I knew none of it back then. But at the time I thought the story was spectacular. I thought it was a crazy story I had heard in a while. And now looking back three years later

in the story is not even over. It's kind of humbling. I appreciate how you've told the story, but it's not a story. I mean, the reality is,

is that Laura really fuck with a lot of people's lives.

“And the truth is that Laura has an absolute”

history of fabricating allegations when she is in a corner. She did it on the stand in Judge Modis courtroom. It'll be interesting to see if she does it again in a criminal trial.

[MUSIC PLAYING] Thanks so much for listening. And stay tuned for new episodes in bonus content on the Love Trap to Feed. [MUSIC PLAYING]

Blood Trails is a true crime podcast born in the outdoors. Where the terrain is unforgiving, the evidence is scarce, and the truth gets buried under brush and silence. [MUSIC PLAYING] I've seen something in the road.

I guess what I thought was a sleeping bed that there was a full of blood. Somebody somewhere, no shelter. I'm Jordan Sillers. Season two is out now with new episodes every Thursday.

Listen on the eye-hot radio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Earners, let's stop. Look, money is something we all deal with. But financial literacy is what helps turn income into real wealth.

we break down the conversations you

“need to understand money, investing, and entrepreneurship.”

From stocks at real estate to credit, business, and generational wealth, all goal is simple.

Make financial literacy accessible for everyone.

Because when you understand a system, you can start to build within it.

“Open your free eye-hot radio app, search earn your leisure, and listen now.”

Hi, I'm Iris Palmer, host of the Against All Outs podcast.

Every week, I'm sitting down with exceptional people who have broken barriers, even when the odds were stacked against them. Like Chef, Victor Veea, of VS Tacos.

“You know that the kiddo from the bad bunny half-time show?”

It was great. It was a big moment. It was special. And I felt like I was really representing my family. You know, my brand, my city.

I was representing all Tacos, not only of the US, but of Mexico and beyond all the Tacos of the world. Listen to Against All Outs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Saturday, May 2nd, countries, biggest stars will be in Austin, Texas.

And now, our 2026 iHeart Country Festival presented by Capital One. Tickets are on sale now. Get yours before they sell out at ticketmaster.com. That's ticketmaster.com. This is an eye-heart podcast, guaranteed human.