Why You’ll Never Feel Rich with Morgan Housel

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Start the test with a full-known Euro-Promonat of Shopify.de/requord. Welcome to another exciting episode of "Mick Unplugged In Today." We're talking to a gentleman who gets to raise my kids financially. I don't have to do it anymore. I'm so honored that I could pass the book off to our next guest.

He is truly a visionary. He's an unstoppable force and understanding. The intricate deaths between human behavior and financial success. With over 11 million books sold to date translations over 60 languages. He is the guru and you all know I don't use that term often.

When it comes to wealth, psychology, and the art of living. Please join me in welcoming the brilliant, insightful. I guess my kids knew like financial father. Mr. Morgan, how's it going to be? Doing well, thanks for having me, Nick.

Dude, thank you. So much I want to get into. I was telling you offline, like your latest book. The artist spending money has changed my household because I don't have to talk about finances anymore. I get to let Morgan teach my kids and they're already starting to do some cool things and

ask me questions. So thank you for letting conversation about money happening to my house. Although my kids don't live home, they're quasi adults as I like to say now. But thank you, brother. It's great to hear.

I always say, I said this in my first book, the psychology of money.

There are two topics that impact everybody. Whether they like it or not, which are money and health. Whether you're interested in those topics, those topics are interested in you, and they will have a profound impact on your life. I think health, a lot of people understand that and they want to get a good shit.

They go to the gym and maybe they're not always eating the way that they should. But people understand health will impact your life. For reasons that are not entirely clear to me, money has been much more of a topic that people feel comfortable putting off and not talking about it. Maybe a part of the reason is that physical fitness and health are visible.

And money is not, you know, when you're walking down the street, I have no idea what your net worth is. How much credit card debt you have, etc, etc. So it's easier to hide those problems. But I'm glad some of these topics have sparked a conversation within your old household. No, absolutely. And you're spot on, and like those two topics.

Not only are they going to come find you at some point, we shouldn't run from them either.

“And I think that that's what happens with a lot of people.”

You don't talk about health until you have to. And you don't talk about money until you have to in both of the times that you have to. It's a problem that you're in diverse streets to fix or to try this off. So again, thank you for allowing those conversations. Great. This is, this is going to be fun.

So Morgan, I always ask, you know, my guess this question about what is your be caused.

That thing that's deeper than your why, you know, Simon Seneca said start with your why. And I think that that's cool. But I think that you're actually fueled by your be caused. That true purpose that you have. So much, so Morgan, if I were to ask you what's your why, I could probably guess, right? Your family, your friends, your dedication, whatever that is. But when I say, but why that sentence usually starts with, well, be caused.

And I care about your be caused. And your be caused changes over time. So if I were to say, Morgan, with all that you've accomplished now. And all the things that I know that you're doing, the impact that you're making.

“What is your be caused? What is your purpose? Why do you continue to do the things that you do?”

Well, it's, it's not even my because today. I think my because has always been roughly the same for for the last 30 years or so. And maybe most people who you asked that question might give you a positive answer. I would give you a negative answer. And I would say my because is because I'm terrified. I've been terrified since I've been a teenager of not making it in the world. Maybe that's not unique at all. And a lot of people have that.

But I always felt like I had a chip on my shoulder. Some of that was my upbringing and some

personal faults that I had. And again, maybe that's not unique in the slightest either. But if I look back at whatever motivation I had to make money to have a successful career to figure out my own life, it's because I was terrified. It was just, I'm not going to make it. And to me, the cost of not making it, however you want to define making it, because as of course, I'm just on a spectrum. But the cost of not making it in life was too painful for me to bear.

And I felt like there were moments in my life where I felt like a lot of my peers were enjoying life. And I looked at that, not with envy of man. I wish I had as much fun as you did. I looked at it

That was really true when I was in my late teens early 20s. I had a very unique educational background. I effectively stopped my education at 8th grade. I was a competitive ski director. I didn't go to high school. I did it independent study program that required

nothing, absolutely nothing. It was basically, I stopped my education when I was 13 or 14 years old.

And so it was a really cool teenage years. I skewed all over the world. But as it became 18

“and all my friends or many of my friends were going off to college, I was like, well, what now?”

Like, I'm an idiot. I am statistically, I have no idea, I have an eighth grade education. And all there was a panic. I had a midlife crisis at 18 of like, what am I going to do with my life now? And I knew, and then this was very justified. This was not a false fear that almost everybody else in my age and my generation was much smarter than I was because they had this fancy thing called a high school education. And so I knew, I absolutely knew that if I wanted to even

come close to matching my peers, I needed to work 10 times harder. I didn't have whatever kind of cognitive skill that they did. I just needed to work harder. And I think that that maintained all throughout my career. It's still with me today. It's still with me today. I think a lot of those things just become an ingrained part of your personality that whether it is a true fear when you're 17 or imposter syndrome when you're older, it's this fear that like, I'm not going

to make it. I don't deserve what I have and I need to work harder in order to just maintain what I do have. Yeah, that's that's deep, man. And you know, I have a very similar because as well, you know, people think that mine is is all positive. It was like, nah, it was a crappy household situation and I promised my mom, I would change it. And I live with that promise every day because I can't wait anybody else down. So I totally resonate with what you're saying and kudos to you, not only for

that outlook, but the fact that you're doing something about it. So again, huge fan of the work that you do. I also feel if I'm big one, one small part here. I don't know that I could have not done something about it. I think I think if you're driven by ambition, it's easy, easy to stop because the path of least resistance is not quite there. It's easy to just be like, I'm really ambitious, but like maybe

I don't need to be that ambitious. When you're driven by fear, you can't stop. It never, it never leaves you.

So I think there is a point, someone asked me this recently, if I could give my 20 year old self advice, what would that advice be? And my advice was, don't worry so much because it's all going to work out. It's not going to be easy. It's not going to work out like you thought it was going to work out, but it's all going to work out. But then I thought, I think to a very real extent, the reason that it has quote unquote worked out is because I was scared. So is the right advice telling myself, don't worry

or was there success because I worried? I think that's very much a thing. Totally agree, man, totally agree. So, you know, Morgan, I told you how I've been a huge fan of yours. I'm I told you about your latest book and what it's done for our household. But here's what's also

“important. I think for the viewers and listeners understand about you and your work in your body of”

work. Morgan, I applaud you, brother, because you delve into like the complex interplay between like human behavior and finances, where a lot of people go into the analytical aspect of money, you really talk about the psychological aspect, right? And I think that for my boys, at least, they appreciated that aspect because it's not like your storytelling, but it's like you, it is like you are storytelling and you're not going into the analytics, which can drive most modern people

crazy. Did you know that that's initially how you were setting up your books because all of your books, bro, are like that? And I have a unique feeling that that's why you've sold as many copies as you have. I think there's a couple of parts to this. Prior to writing my first book, the psychology money in 2020, I had been a full-time professional finance writer for 13 years or so. And I had written during that period, I wrote something like 4,000 blog posts. I had a lot of reps in this period of writing

about finance. And something that I learned early on in my career as a finance writer is that if I write from an analytical perspective, it's too competitive with other people who can write faster,

better, more accurately than you do. So if my blog post was, here's what the Dow Jones did yesterday.

It went up 1.2%, did this A, it's boring, nobody cares about that. But B, there's 8,000 people who can do it faster than I can. And so there's no competitive advantage. But if I could tell a cool story, that was A, it was timeless. And an article that was relevant yesterday might be relevant 20 years from now. And like, man, there's a credible value in that. And B, it was much less competitive with other people. And I think it got you closer to the truth of how money worked. Because so much

of money is not the formulas in the spreadsheets. It's just what's going on inside your brain. Why do you want these things? Why do you want more money? What is your relationship with greed and fear? What are your

“goals? That's what actually mattered. And so not only did it get you closer to the truth of what”

mattered with money from a career perspective for me, it was less competitive and let me carve a

you and B, I'm not smart enough to do it. There's other people out there who can do it much better

“than me. But I can tell you what I think is a cool little story about what happens in your head.”

And everybody knows from their back in their time in high school in college, you can memorize a formula the night before the test. But you will forget it as soon as you shake your head after the test. It the formula just pops right out. You don't remember it at all. But as somebody tells you a good story when you're four years old, you remember it when you're 50 years old. It'll stick with you for life. And so if you tell a good story, it helps it's more memorable and it helps people

contextualize their own life. So if I teach you the formula for compound interest, useful, important, but you might forget it. And it's just it's no different in your head than the quadratic formula. And you're just like, I don't really understand what this is. But if I tell a story about somebody who took too much risk and lost their money and regretted it, A, you remember it, B, you can have empathy with what that person went through and you can contextualize. Man,

here's how I would have felt if I was in that situation. If I lost all my money, I would regret it. I'd be crying. I'd feel shame and horror as well. And so whenever as a writer, you can contextualize, you can help the reader contextualize their life into what you're talking about, the better you're

“going to do. That was a very long-winded answer to your question of, I think it very much was intentional.”

The last thing I'll say about that is I've always written for an audience of one. I only care about

one reader and that's myself. I've been intentionally selfish in my writing because it's too difficult or it's too easy to say to pander to your readers. If you feel like you're trying to teach something to somebody else, now teaching is one of life's wonderful gifts, but when you're doing it to an anonymous reader who you don't know, it's very hard and very dangerous. So rather than saying, I'm an expert and let me teach you, Mr. or Mrs. Reader, that's very difficult. I wanted to say,

what stories are interesting to me? And maybe there's a leap of faith. If this story is interesting to me, it'll probably be interesting to others, not everybody, but maybe other people will like this. And so I've always just wanted to write topics that I was interested in in a voice that I found compelling with stories that I found interesting and then put it out in the world and let people figure out what they want to do with it rather than myself having a grand plan of

what this was supposed to teach you. No, it's brilliant. And here's what I'll tell you,

my youngest son, who's in grad school at the University of Miami, said to what you were just saying, "Dad, I can tell this story to my friends," right? Because now you've written it in a way that however that connection was with my son, came in. Whatever piece of the story was important to him, he can now tell and translate that to other people. And I think that is so powerful. And I know you get it but Morgan, I need you to understand how powerful that is of what you do, bro, because you've

got 21, 22, 23 euros that are able to retell your stories in their way to impact others, and not many people can do that, brother. Well, thank you. That's great to hear. One thing it reminds me of, from my time in college, pretty much the only course that I remember things from, and that I got the most out of was this class on environmental economics, which I didn't give two hoots about then or now to be honest. But the teacher was this user lawyer and he was an

environmental consultant. He did like expert witness stuff. And the entire class, it was every lecture would begin with, "Hey, I read the story in the Wall Street Journal today. Let me tell you some stories about the background of how that industry works." And some of my old war stories from how I dealt with it. And he would be like, "Oh, so right now, Exxon Mobile is dealing with this. Let me just tell you a story about the history of environmental regulations and how it came to here."

And he would just ramble off the top of his head telling stories. And when I compare that to the other professors who stood at the chalkboard and wrote down formulas and asked you to memorize them, "What stuck with me more? The formulas are the stories." By orders of magnitude, the stories stick with you. And so I think you can apply that almost any field, no matter what your field is. Yes, technical expertise is very important in engineering or if you're a doctor or a pilot or something,

“you need to know which button suppress the technical expertise, of course. But there are so many”

fields where just hearing stories about other people dealing with what you are dealing with in the workplace can be one of the most effective ways to teach. A degree, a degree. You know, in the intro, I talked to you where I labeled you as the guru and I don't use that term lightly with most people. I'd love to get your feedback, your stance, your verbal, op-ed. And what are people missing when it relates to money and more importantly, money making decisions? I think there's two things. One,

people need to have a very hard conversation with themselves about why their goals are what they are. So I think most people kind of intuitively understand their goals, even if it's just like a primitive urge for more, like my goals, I want more money. I want to hire salary out of higher net worth, I want a bigger house. And that's very normal. I have those primitive goals too. It's important

asking me that I want a bigger house? Because a bigger house is better, of course. If you start

“asking questions like, well, why do you want all these things? I think eventually, if you're honest with”

yourself, you get to this point of, I want to be higher on the social hierarchy. I want a bigger house because I want my house to be bigger than that guys. And I want a faster car because it has to be faster than that person. It doesn't necessarily how much you have or how your net worth is or how bigger house is. What you want is to be and have bigger and better and larger things than somebody else. You just want to be higher on the social hierarchy. And I think when you frame it like that,

a lot of people would be like, well, that's kind of a silly game. What I want to be is happy. What I want to be is happy. But what you are driven to achieve is just to have more than other people. And people have understood this for millennia. Montesquieu, the great philosopher, said, "Hey, this quote that I love," he said, "If you only wish to be happy, that is very easy to achieve, but people want to be happier than other people and that is much more difficult." And so,

I think for a lot of people, this was true for me. Once I started really analyzing that game, and where my urges were coming from, then you can redefine your goals in a much clearer sense. Of what I want out of money is a independence. I want to be able to live my life and have the privilege to become myself without chasing other people's dreams, other people's goals, being influenced by other people's priorities. I want to be independent. And be I want to use money as a

tool to live a better, happier, more content life. And look, the idea of status seeking and inserting yourself on the social hierarchy is in many ways unavoidable. It's just how humans came to be.

“If life is a competition for resources and jobs and mates and whatnot, then it is true that”

it what matters is not how much I have and matters that I have more than you. And that's really what matters. And so, I think a lot of this is unavoidable, but once you come to terms with the game that is being played, you can analyze what goals are worth pursuing in life and what is not.

The second thing I would bring up here of what people are missing, or is easy to ignore with money,

is the extent to which my goals might be very different from yours, not because we necessarily disagree, certainly not because one of us is more intelligent than the other, but because we're different people, from different backgrounds, sometimes from different generations, different parts of the country, and we should not pretend that people who grew up and have experienced very different things in life will come to want and value the same things. And so, you know, one, one like very crude way to think

about this is that if you grew up very poor and shunned and were embarrassed of your poverty, sometimes in that situation, a fancy sports car, or a mansion, is the ultimate symbol to yourself that you made it. And it means a lot to you. And so, sometimes the yellow Lamborghini, or the big house up on the hill, you're not even doing that to show off for other people, you're doing that as a trophy to yourself, and it feels great. Now, if you grew up,

well off, privileged, that kind of, the yellow Ferrari might become the ultimate symbol of Goddy egoism, and it's the last thing that you want. The big flashy car in people's faces, housing people's faces is the last thing that you want. And so, and neither of those are right or wrong, it's just people have very different experiences. And so, I think a lot of damages done in finance, when we teach it as there's one right way to do it, here's how to do it. Here's

“the formula for how you should save, invest, spend what your goal should be, and there's not.”

You really have to go figure it out for yourself. Let people don't want to do that. They want somebody to give them the answer, and it just doesn't work like that. And so, I think those two things, the understanding of why you have these urges and goals, and the introspection to figure out what you've experienced in life and what truly works for your personality,

those are the two biggest things that people tend to miss. Real talk. I'm always on the move,

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your NordVPN plan, go to NordVPN.com/micumplug. Our link will also give you four extra months on the two-year plan. There's no risk with Nord's 30-day money-back guarantee. The link is in the podcast episode description box. Go check out NordVPN.com/micumplug. Dude, I've been saying that that last part probably for the last 15 years, especially when talking to my children, because I do want them to be not just fiscally, but I want them to be very money-aware, very financial

same, but from a financial situation be polar opposite, or not have the same type of credit score,

“or, you know, the means to capital, but could look almost identical on paper. And I think that's”

where people get it wrong as well, too, is you compare yourself to someone else in their situation,

because you think that it's right, but as I put it in business, the work is always the work,

meaning the things that you're doing with your money might look differently to get different outcomes. It's good to have a standard. It's good to have a barometer, but you still have to do things for you, that other people or other entities just aren't going to be able to see. Yeah, one way I think about this, too, is in sports, where if you are a power lifter, then being huge and thick and burly is what you want to be. And sometimes a lot of power lifters

look obese even, they're just gigantic guys with big pot bellies and that's the perfect body for their sport. Now, if you are a marathon runner, you want to be a toothpick, and you want to be as lean and skinny and lack of muscle, as you can as as you are world-class athletes, the giant dude with a big pot belly and the skinny little twig are world-class athletes. They are perfect

“for what they are doing. And I think that can be an analogy for finance as well, that if you're”

if you are a type A person and you're like, I'm only happy if I'm starting successful companies and selling them and building my money as fast as I can so I can buy the private jet and whatever it might be. That could be successful one person. There are so many other people who are like, I just want to have decent job where I'm home at 4 o'clock to hang out with my kids. And if I can have a very modest retirement at age 65 and live in my 800 square foot house and go fishing

on the weekends, that's a perfect life for me. And both of those can be perfect, both of those can be the perfect situation for each of those people. It is too common, though, in finance, that the type A entrepreneur, you're only successful if you're, if you're as rich as I am, that that person could look at the modest humble person who just wants to go fishing and hang out with his kids as a failure. Because by the standards of the type A person's life, the fisherman is a failure.

But the fisherman might look at the type A person and say, I would never want that life,

I'm happy doing my own kind of thing. And so the realization that there are infinite number

“ways to have a wonderful life, I think, goes missing in finance where we want to distill everything”

down to one formula. Yeah, totally agree. So Morgan, I want to talk about this book now. The artist spending money simple choices for richer life. Obviously, I've, I've read it. I'm on my third read of the book and so for those that are watching, this is it. I'm going to do something cool towards the end of the day and probably purchase some copies of this book. But there's a certain chapter. And you've hinted at it a little bit, but look at them.

I haven't highlighted my bookmark is right there. Talk to us about looking at them. But before we go there, I'd be remiss. Let's talk about the book, the premise of you writing this book, why this book, why now? I had spent 13, 15 years or so as a finance writer. And the vast majority of what I've wrote about was investing and gaining wealth, which is a very important topic, a wonderful topic, I think. But it was, it was a social realization a couple of years ago that

if you asked me my philosophies around investing and gaining wealth, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours on end. I'd put so much thought into crystallizing those views. But if you asked me, what are my philosophies and thoughts around spending money? I would have drawn a blank. And what's so interesting about that is that investing impacts some people's lives about 50% of Americans own stocks in some form or another. But it's, it's a minority of certainly

of the world that is going to experience the emotions of investing in the stock market. Spending money impacts every single person on the planet in some way or another from the very richest to the very poorest and the psychology of spending impacts almost everybody almost every single day. And it's a topic that up until that point as much focus and study as I had put into this topic, I had not thought about at all. And a lot of this again, back to being a selfish writer,

I was just trying to figure out my own life. I was trying to figure out the spending philosophies for me. And I did not write this book as an expert trying to impart my expertise on the reader because I started this book with none. I was just trying to figure it out in my own life. How do I think about spending and greed and envy and ego and social hierarchy? How do I think about those in my own life? And then I tried to put on the same lens that I put on it with investing of,

I don't want to give anybody advice. I want to think about this from a behavioral psychology sociology perspective. And I just want to tell some stories about it rather than thinking that there's a formula as a self-help person that I could give to anybody because I can't. And so that was that was a premise of the book. It really started was trying to figure out what identified was a whole

in my own life that I was trying to understand. Yeah, I'm amazing, amazing. So two chapters really

or the viewers for the listeners, walk us through a couple of highlights of that chapter.

“What do you think about my own life? It's a useful mental exercise, I think, to ask yourself”

constantly, if I were alone on the deserted island, maybe just me and my family, my wife and kids, how would we choose to live? If nobody could see our close, cars, house, jewelry, there was no Instagram, we could show off occasions. There were no eyeballs on us at all. How would we choose to live? And I think for many people, not everybody, but many people in that situation would live a very life, would a very different life than they do now. And it's a mental exercise to force yourself,

how much of your lifestyle and your goals and your aspirations are because they make you happy versus you want the eyeballs and the attention of other people. And so the idea of

looking out other people and trying to gaze your position in the world relative to them and always

assuming that the people who are above you and income in size of their house and that kind of positioning realm are not only above you, but happier than you. I think is one of the biggest things. One of the things that's very difficult with money is that I can see your close, I can see your car, maybe I can see your house, I can see a lot of material things that you purchased. I have absolutely no insight into what's going on inside of your head. I have absolutely no insight into how happy or

tortured or joyful or miserable you may or may not be. And so it is too easy when looking at other people to say, well, that person with the better car and the better house is living a better life than I do. And that is a very tenuous proposition to think to yourself. It is much more

“common. I think that there are people quote unquote below you financially and social status wise”

that are much happier than you. And there are a lot to an even greater degree. There are people quote

unquote above you who are making a lot more money, who are so much more miserable, not only then you realize, but miserable, that more miserable than you are today. That is so, so common. I've used this example. I've talked about this a little bit because I live in the Seattle region. So for literally decades, Bill and Melinda Gates were the king and queen of Seattle. And think about if you were to summarize the life of Bill Gates five years ago, a simple summary would be this.

He created technology that impacted almost everybody in the world to a profound degree. He became the richest man in the world doing it. And he was going to give away 99% of that wealth for the betterment of humanity. If you just think about that, that is a fairytale biography that I just told you. And then what's happened in the last five years? Well, they got divorced. Epstein stuff came out and whatnot. There's so much, I just bring that up because there's so much going on

behind the scenes that you don't see from the outside. And that has true in everybody's life. And so, rather than looking at other people and gauging my life relative to them, because there's a lot going on that I can't see. I just wanted to turn the benchmark in words and just say like, am I happy? Am I having a good life? I, again, need to make the disclosure that I don't think I'm an expert in this because there are plenty of times in my life when I look at other people,

look at their nicer house, whatever it might be and fuel a sense of inadequacy and a fuel a sense of like, oh, I'm beneath them. Once in a while, I was just telling my wife, I had one of these experiences like this past Saturday, like a couple of days ago, where I woke up and I was just drinking coffee sitting on the couch and I just had the sense of just like, I'm so grateful for just what I have right now. I'm just like, I don't everything around me, I just so grateful for this and my aspiration

to have tons more. This is not really there. When you have those like, unfortunately, brief and fleeting moments, you realize like, that's the goal. That, that right there is the goal. It's gratitude and contentment and the idea of like, I'm only going to be happier if I can anchor my gaze and my expectations on what other people have and I don't, that's the formula for perpetual

“misery. So I think that's, that's always the realization. Love it, brother, love it, love it, love it.”

All right. So the chapter that has had the most conversation, the one that the 21, 22, 23 year olds at the University of Miami are talking about and that's the real conversation, just so you know, is quiet compounding. And you talk about in that chapter, the fastest way to get rich is to go slow. And so I want everybody that's watching or listening, especially like, if you're early startup entrepreneur, if you're that person that's looking to even to save or to to go from

X amount of money to three to five years this amount of money, this chapter in and of itself is where I would start. Like, and I know there's some build up Morgan, but when I read it and again, my sons ended up getting copies for some of their friends, they started at this chapter briefly like highlight a myth or two or a strategy or two on why it compounding. I think it was, it's a

put investing and spending into that category is loud. It's both comparative to other people. What do I have relative to you? And it is ego driven, show off signaling. And I think a lot of, so that's it's very normal and natural, but I think a lot of the best financial behavior in the biggest financial successes are quiet. It is internal benchmark. It's I don't care how well you did. I just care whether I met my own goals. That's an internal benchmark rather than the external

benchmark. And it's quiet in the sense of like, I don't have any desire to signal to other people how well I've done. I just want to have a happy life within the confines of my own house and that's it and just be quiet about it. And so I think that's it's a very simple and kind of vague philosophy,

“but part of it too is in order to do well financially, you need to be able to stick around for a very”

long period of time. It's not necessarily how well you did this year in the stock market or in your job. It's can you keep doing well for 10, 20, 30, 40 years. That's when you, that's when the results really start getting crazy and incredible. And I think you really only have a shot of doing that in longevity and endurance if you're doing it in a quiet, verbal benchmark focused way. That's kind of

how I always think about it. And a lot of times when I have a financial goal or another way to phrase

goal is like urge and desire. I always try to ask like, is this does it fall into the quiet compounding realm? And everybody's different. I think if you're type A, this, that philosophy might not appeal to you that much. But for me, I've always been, I don't know what type is it. Is it type B, C, D? I don't know where that fits. But I've always just been like, I think to me a really good life that I would look back on on my deathbed. Hopefully, 50 years from now or whatever it is, I would look back at it

and be like, I was, I had a lot of quiet success that I was, I lived a life that I was proud of and built up money that I used for the betterment of my family and the community. And I did it in a quiet, unflashy way. You know, someone who I've really looked up to and he was not a perfect man by any sense. But George Marshall, who was a general and he was Secretary of State during World War Two,

“lived an unbelievable life, had a profound and I think positive impact on the world. And there are”

no statues of him. A lot of people, unless you're a World War Two, but you've probably never even

heard his name. And so you compare that to the big men Winston Churchill, Franklin Roosevelt, Dwight Eisenhower. Some of the, well, did, did a lot of great things, too. But I think I'll layer beneath that the quiet heroes are, are, are more incredible because they were doing it for the impact itself, not for their own personal, fame or fortune. And so there's also a line in the Foodfighter song. There goes my hero. And it's, there goes my hero. He's ordinary. He's ordinary. He's not,

like, you're, I, so to me, the hero has always been someone who was quietly compounding behind the scenes for their own betterment and for the betterment of their family and their society around them,

rather than some external ego-driven formula. Yeah, amazing brother. We're going to know how busy

you are, man. I'm honored to have spent some time with you. What you personally don't for me, but there's no words for it. So I just thank you for that. Leave the floor with you, man. Working people fine and follow and, and I'll make sure I have links to the book as well, too. Well, that, well, thanks. This has, this has, this has been a lot of fun and honored to be here. And every, every half decent and many, and many not so decent thoughts that have ever had,

our, our, our are now in my three books. It's a psychology of money, same as ever, and now the artists spending money. Everything that's gone through my head that I thought was worth writing down, have been written down in those books. That's where you can find it. I love it. Love it. Morgan, I appreciate you so much for everybody that's watching this listening. Check the show notes, check the descriptions. There's links to Morgan's social there. There's links to the book there.

To all of this books are there. Do yourself a favor. Get all three. They're going to be relevant.

“They're going to be timely. And all of them are going to teach you strategies that you need to”

day to understand how you think and feel in our motivated or demotivated by money. Morgan, Brother, I appreciate you more than you'll ever know, my man. Thanks so much back. Listen to the fun. You got it. To all of you as a listeners, remember, you're because it's your superpower. Go unleash it. That's another powerful conversation on Mick Unplug. If this episode moves you, and I'm sure it did, follow to show wherever you listen. Share it with someone who needs that

spark and leave a review. Some more people can find there because I'm really rushed. And until next time, stay driven, stay focused, and stay unplugged.