2809 : Is Cardio Ideal For Fat Loss?

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That's it, Joe Restosha. Cardio can be great for fat loss for about two to three weeks. After four weeks, absolute waste of time. What do you think? I strongly agree, the body adapts really quickly

to energy expenditure in that way.

“About three to four weeks, that's what the data shows, right?”

So 8 to 12, you get benefits of stamina training. So when we look at it for, if you want to endurance training and get better, that makes it a form of training. That makes sense. But most people are using it as a source to reduce body fat.

And if that's the main goal, you get great benefits for about two to three weeks. After that, it sharply declines and becomes almost a waste of time and can be counterproductive. Well, you're going to get a lot of people right now who are like,

well, I lost tons of weight by doing lots of running. Now, usually this is in combination with cutting their calories. But what they don't realize, and we've talked about this, at least a thousand times, is that form of exercise with the reduction in calories is a recipe for muscle loss?

That's right. It really is. Now, people might ask why? Why does cardio or running plus the calorie deficit low-cut?

Why does that cause muscle loss? Is it that you're burning the muscle? While you're doing all this exercise? No, that's how it's happening.

“It's actually quite hard to burn muscle in that way.”

What's happening is the body has, because cardio does burn a lot of calories. So this is where people start to debate, especially at the beginning. Yes. I mean, it compares into other forms of exercise.

It's the highest calorie burn. But what happens when you're burning lots of calories and you're cutting your calories and the form of exercise that you're doing is not telling your body, we need strength and muscle.

The body learns how to reduce this caloric output. These are more efficient. And so it pairs muscle down. So it's like 40% of your body weight loss is muscle, which sucks.

You lost 10 pounds, four of it was muscle. And now you're left with a, you know, for lack of a turn slower metabolism, which makes things a little harder. People disregard that we're adaptation of machines

where your body's going to adjust so that type of a stimulus, especially cardio, those type of demands. Like if we're just like depriving ourselves

this energy, like the first signal really is to like

hold onto that energy and not expend it so frivolously. So it's, if you think of that in that lens, it kind of makes sense why at a certain point you kind of hit that hard plateau. This is how I would tell competitors

if they knew you had a good coach or not. It's so common in the space that these competitive coaches put their athletes, their competitors, on cardio 12 weeks out from a show and I would tell them. It's a terrible strategy.

We are far better off manipulating it with calories and just regular activity like movement walking around until we get to those final couple weeks

and then it's so new, it's a new stimulus to the body

that it responds really well for those two to three weeks. Then after that to your point, it gets, it adapts. It gets, it comes efficient. And then stamina building happens. But part of what's happening when you start to build stamina

endurance and you get good at it is the body's becoming more efficient at it which is saying, hey, we don't need all this muscle to do all this running that the body's asking us to do. Let's get rid of some of this muscle

because it's not efficient to happen. By the way, this is to be clear before anybody gets up and arms. It's a form of exercise done properly, it's healthy. So we're not saying it's not healthy.

We're not saying it's not a good form of exercise

“if you want to improve stamina and endurance.”

We're not saying don't ever do cardio. What we're talking about here is fat loss. And it's a terrible strategy. By the way, there are great studies that compare strength training to cardio for weight loss, weight loss, cardio wins.

Fat loss, strength training wins. What do I mean by that? Cardio in the weight loss protocol or a fat loss protocol induces muscle loss. It does enhance actually creates more muscle loss

almost like or maybe even worse than just a pure calorie deficit. We're a strength training, a preserve muscle, and in some cases, if the calorie deficit's not too big, and you have high protein, you'll see some muscle building through this process.

So for as far as fat loss is concerned, it's really a terrible approach. Now if you use cardio as a way to improve your health, and you want more endurance or more stamina, great, go for it. But if your number one goal is like,

I want to lose body fat, get your better off doing other forms of exercise in particular strength training, and then the diet.

- This is why I always like to introduce normal person,

not just talking about competitors.

“Introduced cardio after my client has achieved their aesthetic goal.”

So the client came to me and they had a bunch of body fat they wanted to lose. Cardio was not a part of the protocol until we got closer to basically where they wanted to be. And then it would be to either one sharpen up a tiny bit

or because they're like, hey, I want more endurance, more stamina. I've now reduced that body fat. I'm now at a place where I feel healthy and balanced. Now I want to improve that. It's great.

Now it's pump your calories and let's introduce cardio. So now you're more fed and you get to build some stamina and you have the body you want. It's not something that I would use as a tool just to get the body fat off.

It's a terrible strategy to do that. Because now if I did it that way by the way too, and let's say you did have success, which is what happens to a lot of some of these competitors that do out two hours of it every single day to get rid of.

And not only that, but now in order to maintain that body that they've now achieved, they've got to maintain the two hours of cardio every single day, which is unrealistic and they're not going to do, which is why there's this massive rebound afterwards.

And they put on it because they stop doing that instantly. And then there's huge difference in calorie burn. And so this is such a terrible strategy and yet everybody seems to do it even at the competitive level. And it really shouldn't.

In fact, there's been competitors

that we never did cardio that we got all the way down

to stage presence like body fat percentage and never had to get on the elliptical and sweat or the stair master and sweat like crazy. We did it just through managing steps and calorie reduction or through even better,

building your metabolism up, building a ton of muscle first and then coming down. - It's so funny. So earlier today, we had a caller on that had done in the past five Iron Man competitions

in a bunch of half Iron Man's. And for people that aren't familiar and Iron Man competition is insane. It's like a two and a half mile almost ruling. Swim, it's 112 mile bike ride.

And then you run a marathon. That's the whole competition. So a marathon by itself, what is it? 26 miles. You do that at the end of all the other crazy stuff.

So it's just insane. So lots of it's crazy endurance training. I've had a few Iron Man competitors as clients. And if I remember correctly, so these were one of them was a man.

He weighed about 165 pounds. Kind of your typical, you know,

“what you consider your ideal Iron Man physique, okay?”

He was consuming with all the training. Now you're talking about, you know, tens of miles of running and swimming. This guy was two to three hours every single day, sometimes more of exercise to prepare for this intense

crazy competition. This guy was eating about 3,500 calories a day to fuel his body. So this is 165 pound man, 3,500 calories a day in order to fuel this type of training.

And his body fat was relatively lean. He was probably walking around around 10 to 11% body fat. It was doing everything right. We did a little bit of strength training, just kind of support what he was doing.

I am 220 pound guy. So I have a lot more lean body mass. Same body fat. My activity level is one probably 100th of his. If I strength train, it's three or four days a week,

45 minutes, I don't do any of that other stuff. We're sitting down 90% of the day in the studio. And I eat probably 500 more calories a day. And he does just give you an idea of the difference. Another course is genetic variance, all this stuff.

He should be burning if you did the math,

“insane amounts of calories through that activity.”

Well, the body learned and your body will learn how to become efficient with calories. If you're asking your body to become efficient with calories, simultaneously asking it, telling it, we don't need a lot of muscle.

Well, that color we just said that we had was eating 25,500 calories to maintain where he was at. And a very, very active, high training volume, all the things. Another way to show this example is this cell and show you how different you how much you can manipulate

your metabolism is a Michael Phelps, 10,000 calories. So you have this, the body is unbelievably efficient. And if you don't give it a lot of calories, and you do all this crazy activity, it will learn. And it will adapt to that.

But you could also get away with feeding it unbelievably when you have somebody like that that's doing that much activity. So how can people be that far off from each other? Well, that's just an example of how crazy adaptive the metabolism is.

Is that if you continue to put it in a deficit,

and you push the body more and more and more and more, and trying to burn your way down, eventually, it completely slows down. It's a terrible strategy to make that law. Make it really clear.

“The best way to view exercise is what kind of physical adaptation”

does this exercise induce? And that's when I'll use the exercise. What's it best for? What's that specific exercise best? Yes. And then diet, you should look at for health,

fueling, and then manipulate your diet for fat loss or muscle gain. So that's what you do. Now, can you look at exercise through the lens of fat loss? Well, you can, because when you look at your diet, and you're eating in a way to lose body fat,

which means you're in what's called a calorie deficit. You're eating less calories in your burning. Well, the form of exercise I should pick, if my goal is aesthetic, if my goal is primarily aesthetic. I want to lose body fat.

Well, I'm going to try and pick the form of exercise that's going to mitigate, or block, or stop, or reverse, whatever negative effects the calorie deficit can cause. Well, it's one of the negative effects of the calorie deficit. Muscle loss, consistent, consistent.

You're going to calorie deficit. You will lose weight is significant amount of that weight. Will be muscle loss that happens across the board. So which form of exercise should I pick? The one that's going to build endurance and stamina,

“the one that's going to build the say flexibility,”

the one that's going to build strength. That's the one right there. The strength building form of exercise because it directly counters what happens with the calorie deficit. And again, this is why you're seeing the studies

for pure fat loss as a percentage of body weight loss, especially strength training is superior. And why cardio should not even be, when clients would come to me and I'd work with them, if they told me specifically, and they're not working out at all,

I want to get healthier. Cool, okay, check what else you want. Fat loss, check, this is what we're going to do. We're going to start with strength training. Why? Well, because strength training is going to give you

some stamina, if you're seditoring now, it's going to give you some stamina for sure. And endurance, it's going to improve your health. It's going to do those things. And it's going to help with the fat loss.

Now, if a client came to me and says, I want to go play basketball. I want to swim. I want to run. Like I need that kind of stamina.

Cardio is going to be a part of their protocol. Strength training will still be a part of the protocol, but cardio now is a part of the protocol. I don't look at it for fat loss. There's a lot of indirect benefits, the cardio as well.

It's like, especially if we're talking about fat loss, like for the endurance component to kind of re-visit, like some of your workouts and have that bit of stamina to go through. And so it's like, it's not something that you totally eliminate

per se, but if you're trying to be specific, and this is your targeted goal of fat loss is the most objectively. That's what I'm seeking the most. Like it's not going to be your best tool for the tool.

So we get confusion, even from this podcast, you know, we've been saying this forever. When it's somebody who says, I want both because then that's where they feel like they're lost. Why don't just care about aesthetics.

I also want to do this and want that.

But the answer to that is still focused on the aesthetic first,

and then we can go build the stamina. Like you're far better off doing that. Then trying to do both of them at the same time. You'd be far more because your point, while we're lifting weights and building muscle, you're going to get some strength.

- Is there a sedentary right here? - Yes. Just strength strength is going to give you stamina and endurance. - It's going to give you some of that. And it's going to start to build the metabolism.

And it's going to get the body fat off. Like so it's going to benefit you and that. And then after you're in that position where you're like, okay, I've gotten to a place where I'm happy. Now let's go after more endurance and more stamina.

You're a way better off than saying, how do I do both at the same time, doing both at the same time, you're going to be Robin Peter to pay Paul all the time. - The problem, I think the big problem,

I've said this a lot in the past, the big issue is that people look at fat loss as just the math problem. That's the way they view it. - Yeah.

- Calories, inverses, calories out. Which, that's true, okay, that there's a trunist there. - It's just deficit. - But it's not explaining how that works.

and how the human metabolism work

and how hormones affect all that stuff. But yes, it is true that that math problem is a part of it. Now here's where it gets messed up. All right, if it's calories, inverses calories out. Well, the form of exercise I'm going to pick

is the one that increases the calorie burn the most. So that should be the best one, right? But that's not the full story because, yes, running for, look here, running for 45 minutes, we'll burn probably three times of many calories

as lift is traditional strength anyway for 45 minutes. It's true, but we're taking out the adaptation piece. Like, what is that exercise in dues as far as adaptation is concerned with the body? When you consider that,

well, the picture becomes much more clear. It's not just about how many calories you burn, it's about the adaptations.

“Does that help me burn more calories later on on my own?”

Does that cause me to have to continue doing the activity in order to burn the calories? Or is my butter fevering out? And does it solve the muscle loss problem? Is it going to fix the muscle loss problem

that's caused by a calorie deficit? When you consider all of those things, the picture gets much much more clear. But if it's just calories, inverses, calories out, let's just burn more calories.

You're going to end up in a terrible plateau, which is what happens to a lot of people where they want to lose 30 pounds, so they just burn a lot of calories on a treadmill. They cut their calories, they get 15 pounds off,

and they hit this really hard plateau. By the way, the 15 pounds include seven pounds of muscle. Then they're in this really hard plateau, and then they're left like this. And I know, listen, if you're listening,

and this is probably happened to a significant percentage of people listening right now who've tried to lose weight in the past. You hit this plateau, and then you're here. Okay, I guess I got to work out more, and I got to eat less.

But I'm already working out a lot. My schedule's kind of crazy. I'm doing four days a week of running, or whatever. My calories are already low. I already don't like my diet.

I'm already hungry. I guess the lose in the next 15 pounds, I got to increase my activity, drop my calories some more, and some of you, because you're really disciplined, hard working, you go, all right, let's go for it,

and you do it, and then you drop another seven pounds, another three pounds of that as muscle. Now you're left with whatever, you know, you don't, maybe nine more pounds of body fat to lose. But now you're in this place, like, this sucks.

Yeah. I hate this. I'm doing all this work. I'm eating salads and chicken breasts, and, you know, white rice, and I don't, and I feel, I still don't feel like I look the way I should

with all this work, and all this, like, restriction, with my diet to hell with it. I want to enjoy my life. Any logical person ends up saying, I would rather, I'm already not happy with what I'm at.

I'm doing all this shit. I'd rather be eating what I wanted, being lazy, and feeling a little bit fluffier, the other way. So it's such an extreme difference. It's, you know, I, I blame our space.

Oh, totally. I mean, we, you know, wellness, hippie, dippy side, pitted against the heavy science side that wants to just tell law thermodynamics. I mean, and so you've got, and you have the consumer,

who's like, that feels like they have to identify with one of the other. Either I totally identify with the wellness, hippie, dippy person, and that's more me. Or I'm super science guy.

It's law thermodynamics. And so it's definitely just calories in calories out. That's what matters. And it's like, meanwhile, a lot of people are like, none of this was working.

That's right.

“I, you know, I remember when I first was working in gym.”

So I started working in gym's 18. Like you guys were all young. We started working in gyms. And when you work in a gym and you love it, you're there all day long.

And so if you're there long enough, you know, after six months, you see your regulars, okay? You recognize your regular members. And I remember, yeah, I'm in the gym. I mean, they're all the time.

When I was first started, and I loved it so much.

I was there literally, 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. six or seven days a week. I'm always in there. And I would, I would see these regulars that would come in. They check themselves in and you their names. Hi, how you doing?

They go, get changed, come out, and they'd hop on the stair master. And they'd be there for an hour. Yeah. And they would be there all the time.

And after I was there after a year, I'd see the same. And they looked no different. No different. They looked, they looked exactly. And what I mean by looking the same is they were probably

20 to 25 pounds overweight, sweating their butts off on these on these machinery for me when I was a young trainer. Yeah. The other one, which I think is even more of a mystery to me, which blew my mind, were the group ex-instructors.

Oh, yeah, who taught four or five classes a day? And they had to see when they were-- We're, for instance, sweat. And we're just, and they looked out of shape. And you're like, there's no way.

She would bury me in that class. Yeah, yeah. Like, I know she's working out. And you think, God, she must eat. That's my thought.

Yeah, she must go right out of here for the Burger King and just hammer food. So you know what I used to do? It wasn't that.

“So what I used to do is, 'cause that's what I thought.”

I remember when I first trained, I first got my first group

back in the instructor. When I was an early trainer, I thought, "Man, those members must eat the worst diets ever." But then you get to know them, you talk to them. And I talked to one guy, and they knew I was a trainer

and then a fitness manager. And so I was talking to diet. And the first guy's telling me what he's eating. You know what I'm thinking? Why?

Why? There's no way that's what you're eating.

It's amazing.

“And then I talked to another one, same thing, lies.”

By the fourth or fifth one, I was like,

"Are they all lying?" To me, this can't be right. This doesn't make any sense. Meanwhile, I'm a trainer, personal training people. And I'm focused on strength training.

Mainly because at the time, because as a trainer, what a waste of time to have a cardio. Have a client do cardio while I'm watching. I know, I was like, "Get him strong." Yeah, so strength training, let me take you out in the gym.

And I'm watching my clients get leaner, get more fit, eating more than the people in the cardio. And then I started to piece this together. Oh, yeah. It needs the form of exercise and same thing.

But my group exercise is talking to them. But yeah, it's so funny because you look back at that. I was so confused by that one. I missed this work, you know? Because it's huge to your other points of the whole math problem.

It's like, how is it now? So you start looking at things at burn. And so you look at, and then we used to track it. And we're like, okay, whatever it's telling me on the cardio equipment, like you could see it, you know,

“this is actually burning, whatever, 250 calories.”

It's some like an arbitrary number. It's probably not even close to an accurate. And then you look it up and then you look at this, I forget what ever book it was. It started like highlighting each exercise,

what you actually burned from weight training. It wasn't even close. And so they start leaning more towards the cardio, to handle the fat, to then build them up in the strength. I want you to get the fat off.

I know, this is why this tear master got so popular because of the calorie burn. On the machine itself, they take the highest number. Yeah, and people get drenched in sweat. Which by the way, people need to know this.

Cardio manufacturers would change the number. Once they realized that people would pick the cardio that showed the highest calorie burn, 'cause nobody checks, nobody cares. It's not like a scientist coming,

well, actually elliptical is burning. It's a, you put it up there. So they would literally cardio manufacturers would make sure that their machines showed higher calorie burn because they knew that more people would use it.

Yeah. Did you hear the clip, or did you listen to clip, the Dory and Yates? Oh, where he was talking to Huberman? Yeah, so I watched some of that.

Did you watch, did you watch?

“We talked about how he does his cardio six minutes?”

No. Oh, I wish you would have watched it. Oh, no, no, I didn't see that. Was why I said it to you guy? Well, you know why?

So I saw so many clips. It was literally a minute and a half, you'd listen to it. He taught, he taught, maybe Doug could pull it up because it's literally only a minute and a half for us to listen to because I was super intrigued by this.

And I guess they call it, they call it one minute. I think that, yeah, one minute of cardio. And it is three bouts of all out 20 seconds. So it ends up being a, it's called one minute cardio. But it's six total minutes.

And it's basically three intervals, three, 20 second all outs. And he breaks down like the benefits and this research to compare it to like an hour worth of cardio. And the amount of calorie burn and benefits and everything that you get.

And I believe it's called, I'm not familiar with that specific. I have never done. But I am familiar with the data around that form of cardio. Yeah, I'm familiar with like the data around hit cardio.

We've talked about this before familiar.

I didn't even, I've never heard of this.

And I heard, Dorian Yates talking about with humor, man. It's, it's got huge, you know, two max benefits. Health benefits, stamina benefits. Here's the problem, though. If you take most everyday people and you have them sprint

all out for 20 seconds, it's inappropriate for them. That's just a fact, you guys. Well, he's, he's actually pitching it on the, on the, what your, your thing you like to. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, what you really like.

That you're, oh, your, your salt, salt by, salt by, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't think it's inappropriate because of the technique. I think it's inappropriate. I think it's inappropriate.

You find it dug for me? Yeah, I found a clip. Oh, I haven't, I haven't had it. So, okay. You still got a cardio anyway.

I want to play it because I want, I want Sally here. And so, see you, we're going to hear it. Yeah, we're going to play it. Yeah. I'll, I'll play the one you sent.

Yeah. And you can just clip it in, Dylan. Yeah, I just thought, you know, I, maybe you want to go listen to the whole interview. So I could hear a human and him go back and forth on it. But I, what caught my attention was, you know, comparing it to like a whole hour of cardio.

I thought was really fascinating. And done on, on that bike for your point, risk versus reward. No, it's not the technique that I'm worried about. It's, it's literally the exertion. Well, I mean, it's literally average, oh yeah, he's like, get watch.

Let's do it. There you go. Six minutes. Like kind of air by. So my favorite, because it engages every muscle, push, pull legs.

If you do a 20 second all out, you got on the side of the thing and see how much watch you're doing right. So now you have a target to hit or exceed every time. So do a minute, minute and a half warm up, whatever, feel warm, all out, balls out like the devil's chasing you for 20 seconds.

This one's tough, it's okay. Go down slowly for a minute, do the second one all out.

The second one's really tough, the third one is, I've never met anybody that wants to do

one after the third one, because literally you can't breathe.

a bit tricky, because it's not really one minute. It's one minute of sprints, but it's six minutes in total. And they compared that to 45 minutes of steady cardio on a treadmill or whatever it is. And the results are more or less the same. So it's 45 minutes, I thought I was 60, but still.

But still. So yes, but think of the typical client, the average 40 something you're all that comes in a train with our trainers and have them go all out 20 seconds. No, it's not, it's going to, so I'm not going to be, so again, I found it's been really fit.

I thought it's very interesting for us. Yes. Oh, that's totally. Yeah, my average client, we're all huge fans of steps and lists, right? Like getting them on their, for 45 minutes, just the movement of that.

I think it, there's lots of benefits, just the movement of the Cooperative. Yeah, that's what I mean. The benefits of moving the body for 45 minutes, but coming from this, I'm like, oh, this is an interesting strategy.

And I've actually never heard.

You know what's funny about that?

“That's what I was doing that just kind of intuitively anyways, well, it's basically”

hit training from how he's describing it, I might have got a little longer than that. But, you know, just because they saw it by, it isn't as like impact, you know, so it's not like quite that. But yeah, your average person doesn't even know how to move fast yet. No.

You have to get all the freedom. Here's the other thing, too. Versus to that. For a lot of people, I'm one of these, because I know the way they're selling it. Six minutes versus 45 minutes.

Yeah. Oh, my God, I'd much rather do six. I wouldn't. I'd much rather do 45 minutes and listen to something, go, you tell me to do something like that.

I gotta say something. At a point, there's a lot of recuperative benefits to moving the body for, I mean, one of my favorite things to walk when I walk for if I'm as opposed to meal and so I'm getting the exact, I just have benefits, I'm getting the meditative benefits, I'm, it's relaxing to actually do that, like so there's, there's a calming part that, and I, you know, to

the conversation that we just had, I feel like, getting people to de-stress and calm down. That is definitely not strategy for that thought it was interesting, I still don't think that change is whatever change my recommendation for it. But for fit, healthy people, it could be something interesting. I know Justin would love that, because he loves, he's got two gears.

Yeah. All-out or stop.

“That's why I was inclined to do that, yeah, that relates to what you like for some”

fight. Yeah. That's why I was inclined to do that. Yeah. That's why I was inclined to do that.

That's why I was inclined to do that. Yeah. That's why I was inclined to do that. Yeah. That's why I was inclined to do that.

Yeah. That's why I was inclined to do that. That's why I was inclined to do that. That's why I was inclined to do that. That's why I was inclined to do that.

And to think about that, the little stuff that you don't think is compounding on the stress you already have, but just looking at your phone and carrying that all day long, you're really not in good-person, pathetic, state-less, you're intentionally doing it. I can't wait for the audience to hear that interview that we just did. I thought that was a really fun, you know, that one got me a bit.

Good conversation, you know, from a doctor, from both sides, right? So, really cool to hear, and just validate to what we communicate a lot to the people that call into the show. And we get a lot of flack from our space, normally from young naive trainers, the think they're really smart.

Oh, these guys are always telling people, do less, do less.

Well, you know what that comes about. Excuse your week. Yeah. It's a lack of experience. But your boomers.

It's tough. It's tough. Get your canes out. Yeah. Scott Scott.

He's a doctor, he's a licensed physician, but he also works in preventative. And he works with a lot of people. And if you're a trainer, and you've been training people for a decade, and you work with a lot of people, you're going to sound like us. That's this, you have that experience.

But if you're young and you're new, and you're just being trainer, and you're just reading the science, and you just train yourself, and you're 23 years old, or whatever, yeah, you're going to be like, no, get after it.

“That's what you got to do, because that's what works.”

Yeah. And it's like, that's not how it really works. Yeah. It's as I love Doreen, and I all respect, I mean, he's a character. He's one of my, I grew up in the '90s, and that's what I was in the body building, and

he was Mr. Olympia, and he's awesome. But he communicates strength training from his lens, and he does a good job, and it's hard to argue against the guy that wants Mr. Olympia, you know, that many times.

But he argues it from that lens, and basically says anything around volume, with training,

everything around frequent, like, it's all garbage, it's only intensity. And I mean, I hate to tell him to his face, because he was like, I want Mr. Olympia, what about you. But it's just, it's just, that's not, that's not the real truth. There's some value, and what he says.

Yeah. But that's not a false story. It's a small, it's a small, like, that's, again, that was interesting to me for me. Like, I thought that was an interesting, like, did you hear Doreen talk crap about Israel

Tell? No, no, no. So Mike is real tell somebody, so somebody asked Israel tell about Mike Menser, and about his method of training. And so the way that Israel tell counter to it, he was trying to be funny, as he's like,

And then because Mike Menser is like the originator, one of the bodybores of popularized

that style of training was like, one set all out heavy duty, right? That's it. And he's done. And so he's like, and I look way better than Mike Menser, and he got blasted for that.

And then he's like, you look like a, like, a fat piece of crap, Mike Menser Doreen. Rustin, like, if you're going to debate a bodybuilder about science, what you don't

“bring up is, if you look, that you look bad, that's why they're pro bodybuilders.”

You know, so that's, like, we're going to lose the argument, bro. No, no, no. Good. I got a fight. Was it on that interview?

Was it different? Yeah, I do. I think it was that one. But I heard him in some other interviews were interesting. Yeah, he's talking about it.

You said you think that a human being worked with him, is that true? Believe human, Dorian trained human for a couple sessions or something like that. So they have a relationship. You're dream. If I, I would, I mean, I just want to hang out with them.

That's why I don't think because you, he's going to teach you so much about that. You know, that's a good question. Is there anybody at this stage of our life? Hell, no. There's nobody who would, like, you would want to work out with somebody.

But you said, what's going to tell me with the work out? Fuck off. Are you kidding me? There's, I don't even want to work out with you, much less, you tell me what I need to do?

Stop it.

Well, I mean, like, the first thing people want to do is you're, like, there's no, like,

there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's no, there's nobody. Okay. Okay. Unless you were, like, okay, you admitted your stuff that you're, you're going through right now.

Like, I could see you hiring me or somebody, not because I'm going to teach you something, but because for the, you're not going to do what I want. Yeah, right. The psychological account of it. You know, you know him best, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

“And it's not because I'm going to teach you anything, right?”

Or, or even tell you, but I, I would tell you what you know you already need to do. I think. And so I think that would be the only reason why I would see, but you know what I mean, there's no, like, celebrity, like, a bodybuilder, athlete, that you'd be like, not really huh.

No, I can't think of it. Yeah. And it's not because I know more than the person who you know who, I tell you what, I tell you what. I don't have a conversation.

Maybe. So, like, I think of a conversation, like, a Scott who we just had with. Like, he's not like I teach me anything in the weight room. No. But having him, like, breakdown your health.

Yeah. Yeah. Like tell him between sets. He's like, just, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Educating me on, like, like, you know, take this today because you're going to go

fly and do this in the tomorrow. And you're like, I, I could geek out of that. Do you guys want to know who my wife told me I should hire? Do you know what I mean? Perrin.

Oh, wow. She's like, you should hire Karen. I'm like, what? She's like, yeah. She's going to, I mean, directly.

That's actually, would tell you.

“That's how you be the way she's, we're going to fight you, so we'll have it.”

No way. You would leave and be so frustrated with it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

You get frustrated with me anyway. Laila, don't try to train me dude. I don't know. I feel like he'll be a little volatile. Yeah.

I feel like you would, I feel like I feel like I, I feel like Karen would be too nice and sweet. Like you need someone to tell why I would do what she says. Because I would. Yeah.

Cause I know I could dominate him. Yeah. Well, what you're using or do something else. Yeah. I mean, I'd do it.

Yeah. I know I don't do it. Actually. Yeah. You sure think you're put to me.

Yeah. Hey, guys, just, so they just dropped the, okay, so Reddit to try it. Reddit true tied. Oh, is it out? Officially.

Oh, no. You guys know. Reddit to do a track. This is a GLP-3. Okay.

So the build muscle.

Well, so the first GLP drugs, which one called GLP ones.

Okay. One, the third. One receptor. I'm not going to get in the science, mainly because I don't understand it. Then there's the GLP choose.

So you have some agglutite as GLP one. Terzepatite as a GLP, too. In the studies, terzepatite causes more weight loss. So unless muscle loss. Unless muscle loss.

So then these, the companies are like, well, can we hit more? Yeah. Can we hit more? So Reddit true tied is a, you can only get it as a research chemical right now. I don't recommend you do that.

You don't know what you're getting. But it's in the studies and then there's lots of bodybuilders and people we know, of course. Who've used it? But they've come out with the trials and you want to know what's crazy about these resources here. Oh, and this is humans and not just rats.

This is human trials. So you can phase two trials. In fact, I think I saved some of the, an article on it. Dude, it's actually a commercial for, for Reddit to, so if it's in phase two, sal, what's realistic when it, when, when you can get it through a real pharmacy, how far out it?

Well, they've got it. What's a prediction of. They've got, they still have to go through phase. No, it's actually phase three. Sorry.

It was a phase three trial. So depending on how the, the FDA views these trials, it'll, it'll, if it passes, then it can become a drug. It could be something that we can now, ozampic, mungioro, are they all still on GLP one, or have they actually got, so, so you actually tied in to a zip tie or the, the chemical

names, uh, I don't know what the brand, I know zampic is the magulotide, I think mungioro's

No, look that up.

“I don't, I don't know if they've jumped to trisepotide.”

Oh, trisepotide. Oh, trisepotide. They have they. Yeah, I don't know. No, no, no.

I know, I know you can get those. No, no actually a big brand. Okay, that's what I'm wondering. I want it because, because last night, I knew ozampic was still messing with, semi-glutide.

No, yeah, semi-glutide is the first one.

That's the first one. Yes, the first one. Yes, yes. But a true tide came out and they're doing research on it and it's called it again, it's a GOP3 and face two trials, crazy face three trials come out.

Bro, say, just trip off this, okay, a significant percentage of the people dropped out of the study. So these are participants. They dropped it. Why?

They quit. And this is one of the things of a trial. Will people drop out because of side effects or because of, do you want to know why, okay, eight, so a significant percentage dropped out because, right for this, yeah, excessive weight loss, they were losing too much weight.

That's like a commercial, but that's going to sell. Crazy. Yes, because it caused such a crazy amount of weight loss. Now, the body builders and the people I know who take rid of true tide, they're like comparing it to, to, to, to, to zip a tide of some, they're like, it's, it's Godzilla

in comparison. It's so effective. So I have a friend who did a bodybuilding competition went on, retired true tide. What does that say right there? Yeah.

So zip bound in Montgiara or, it turns out the tide. Okay. So zip, it's still using the original one. Yeah. Yeah.

So, and overdosing. Yeah.

“So, so what I think they're going to do is mess with the doses, maybe lower”

the dose up because it's so, so powerful or whatever, but I have a buddy who did a bodybuilding

competition. He did, uh, read a true tide and he's like, dude, he got, and not, by the way, you're talking about pro bodybuilding. These guys are insane with how low the calories get, the cardio. It's just insane.

They're, they're hitting stage, shredded, it's not healthy. He's like, dude, he goes, uh, he's dead this guy's done a lot of competition. I'm not going to say too much because everyone know who it is, but he's like, bro, he goes, he goes, zero appetite. Yeah.

He's like, zero. He's like, he goes, I mean, I knew that, I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. I knew that.

I knew that. I knew that. I knew that. I mean, there's a part of me that wants to show the audience because I did the first one, like, really to show, like, for, and get perspective for training, normal asks people.

And so that was the goal. I could absolutely take that, uh, with the strategy of how do I use this to get shredded. And I know I would, I would manage the dose a little bit different and, and I would hit it right with that sweet spot where I still have an appetite. And I can get what I need to, but I just, I remember how much it just completely eliminates

the noise. So cravings for junk food. And that is when you are dieting for a show and training that consistently in a deficit for that long, you have dreams about food, all that, I mean, all the time I thought about food for weeks and weeks and weeks.

And so to quiet that noise would be that like, it would make competing so much, oh God, that's the hardest part, the hardest part of what separates the hardest part of what competing is the diet. It's not the training part. No.

It's in short of the fun. A lot of people love that. It is little, and if you know programming, that's the easy part.

The hard part is, can you, you know, just tough enough, I thought always deterred me from

it. And stay locked in dial to the calorie for months. And that is what that separates the people that can get up there and do that. And if I, if I was using something like that to quiet that, oh, Bill, do you know what the average weight loss was for the people in the study?

I was 445 people, 28% of the body weight. So we have like, tell me, I want to know the muscle, I want to know the muscle. I don't have that. That's what I want. I don't have the data on that.

Because I met earlier data than I saw showed less muscle loss than the other, I remember

“that's what they originally, when we were at Dr. Seeds convention, that's what they were”

hypey. They were leading through it. Let me put it to this way. A 300 pound person, theoretically, with this average weight loss, on through this trial, with a lost 84 pounds.

And how will a period of time? Oh, God, I should see how this, how long the study went. That's a good question. Six, 12. No, no, no, no, it was a, it was a, it was a longer study.

I got to look up and see how long that was. But, bro, that's, wild. That is so wild. I got to look at 72 weeks. So how long is 72 weeks?

What is that? Yeah, 52 weeks a year. So it was over. Oh, wow. They're over a year.

They're staying out of for a while. Oh, I really want to know what the muscle is then. So do I. Yeah, that's that. To me, how crazy is it that obese people in the study, we're like, I got to stop this.

I lost too much already. Yeah. That sounds to me like a commercial. Well, that also, it was a loose to me that they knew that they were losing the ton of muscle.

Yeah, that's why you would drop out. You know, you don't drop out that you're too much fat. You drop out that you're, you recognize that you're worried about it. Yeah, you're worried that you're, you're losing a lot of muscle. Yeah, dude.

Yeah. Crazy.

I know so many normal people that are using it right now.

That's the part that's crazy. Yeah. That's like 15 pounds. 10 pounds. Yeah.

Yeah, he's no reason for that. It's a, I mean, if it's a massive, I know people who don't need to lose any weight, who go on it because they just don't want to, you know, I don't want to think about food. What? What?

Wow. Okay. It does take, there, there is a, there is a part, and I guess, you know, what's, what is the balance of this here, right, because there's, there's, there's the, there's the hedonistic value of food, right, like, there's, of course, like, there's something

to say. Yeah, I'm the discipline. Like, it ruined ice cream for me, like, I mean, I remember on it, like, let me try. It's like, oh my god, I don't even want this, like, that's terrible. I love this.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's, it's an interesting. Ice cream's all set. Yeah.

It is. Come back to me. But it'll come right back, though. It'll come right back. Yeah.

You, you feed it a couple times, and then you're about to, oh, yeah, I remember this. Hey, Shane's subject. Did you, men's health did, like, the survey thing about skin care products?

Do you guys want to know, who got first place, who got best for anti-aging, Caldera last

should help. It's Caldera lab. Is that a new article? And men's health magazine named the Hydro layer, the best for anti-aging. I don't know.

I'd use that one, yeah. Yeah. So Hydro layer is pure moisturizer. So it's a moisturizer. Okay.

And it's, I mean, it's, so that's the one my wife uses. So I have the Hydro layer. We have the serum, and she likes the Hydro layer. And she's like, dude, I put it on, it's like the best moisturizer ever ever used. What does that say they're dug?

Yeah. So it has exesomes, it's over a trillion exesomes. Erilyuronic acid, polyglutamic acid, and peptide growth factors. Oh, I didn't know they have a, I didn't know they have a subscription model. You can save 20%.

Oh, wow. That's really good. I didn't know that. Yeah. So, but I mean stuff like that.

You know, Caldera lab went from like new company to dominant. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Such a crazy trend in that space. That's right.

Clinical trials, they come out and they're just, they crush.

“What I like about, here's the thing, what I, they're like about Caldera.”

We haven't had, um, we haven't had their founder on the show, have we? No. That's a good. That's true.

It would be an interesting story.

It would be an interesting story because they went after a market that kind of didn't exist. Yeah. There was men's, in case much like Viori, if you forget the parallel of that. That's true.

That's true. The male market. Yeah. What's could we do? Let's think about this, guys.

What's the market? Yeah. That women, if there's a huge market for what we're doing. Make up, you guys. Make up?

No. You know, some companies have tried that. Really? Yes. That's the process of trying a little bit.

I think their people was paying. That's the only thing. Bring back Glent on that one. And there's one of us trying, there was one of us that have tried it. Doug is trying it.

Doug is trying it. Hey, when you're for Halloween, they had it. When you're for Halloween, we were dressing up at, I dressed up as a vampire. And I put my liner on, you know, oh, my, and I looked at the beard. I was like, whoa, dude.

I look like a magician. Yeah. Yeah. Like for Saint Joel. Yeah.

Mysterious.

“I think I sent you a Chris Agile spoof video.”

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was like crazy. There was Chris A and I can't get an A by the way, too. What?

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's funny. It's a real thing. What?

No. That's a real company. Yeah. Men's makeup. Yes.

Yes. Stop it. Shut your face right now. Yes. That's true.

What are you gonna put on his makeup? What are you gonna put on your face? What are they got? Read music. There's a little man who do you like.

It's like the eyeliner. Yeah. Brow, blush. Brow, darkener. I don't like enhancing your manly shine eraser.

Quick cover. No. Well. Yeah. I could tell something.

Like he looks sad. Yeah. He looks sad. Yeah. I wonder how it does.

I see. I see if it's a growing market. You're probably my God. I don't even want to say the name of the company, because I don't like him. Dude.

I mean, there's so it's more than one brand. Well, yeah. So see if it's a growing market. Is that why it just happened? Yeah.

What is going on guys? I don't know. It's like concealers largely. So like covering. It says makeup for men.

It is makeup for men.

“I think I think about trying this under eye concealer.”

Yeah. Popped up in a search really fast. You didn't even fit his type of finish. He put him and then make up for men. Popped up.

Welcome back. Yes. I've been found out here. I get like one of the most. She's using.

Yeah. I've been found out here. I've been found out here. I've been found out here. She's using.

Put my lips on. Yeah. Yeah. Really compact. I would do this cheating.

Bro. I do this cheating. I looked at you. How funny would it be if like we all like did makeup like men's makeup went homed and saving.

Like we were the life thing. We all look at clown. No. It's not uncommon though if you're on in. No.

No. On things like that. On TV. I'll tell everybody. Right now.

This is funny. Watch you on some camera. There's zero makeup on our faces.

Yeah. Everybody can tell. Like we realize that. Guys. They look at Justin.

You live outside. Yeah. I'm cracking as we see. It's not what I do. Oh god.

Anyway. Hey, do you guys.

Have you guys seen the studies?

I'm sure you haven't. What do you guys do? What do you guys do? Hey. Hey.

You guys. This off for a little blow. Yeah. What have you done? I gave a news in there.

Yeah. Hey. Hey. Hey. I'm just like you guys.

It's going finally. So people are already making somebody. Yeah. Who's his PR person? He's such a snake.

Actually. I've been paying his PR person. Yeah. Yeah. So there's.

Where do you guys keep your toothbrushes in the bathroom? Where's your toothbrush? A little cup thing. I don't think they open out there. Yeah.

How about you, Justin? For what? Your toothbrush. Yeah. I know where this is going.

I know where this is going. Good particle matter dude. It's on your toothbrush. I've heard this.

If you flush your toilet.

If you don't close your toilet. That's pretty bad. That's pretty far. Well, do you know far? Yeah.

The split goes. Look up. How far does this. What do you call it? The spray from toilet flushing.

How far does it? Yeah. Mine's a pretty far away. You would be shocked. That's like saying if someone has their toothbrush in their bedroom.

It's going to get. It's going to get wet. Well, that's how. I mean, mine's far away. If you haven't on your phone anyways.

What? Poop. Poop face. I don't think you're talking about your mouth.

“That's why I always talk on speakerphone.”

Yeah. What? Your face. It doesn't go up to five feet. Ah, so I'm good, bro.

You're for the five feet. Yeah. Yeah. My sink's. Mr. Adam.

It was 30 foot bound. No. It's not that big. It's not that big.

But it's definitely more than eight.

Hey, down the glass. It's not that big. When I have my condo. When I have my condo, my bathroom was definitely like that. Yeah, yeah.

So a lot. If you live in a condo, you probably absolutely have one. This should be relatable right now. That was poor. It should be poor.

Whatever. Oh, my bathroom. Oh, my bathroom. There's no way the poop takes that toilet. Oh, bro.

I got to call my wife for one end of year. Well, you're silly. You have the fact that I did that. To say something like that with a study, there's gotta be some sort of a range that they're doing that with.

Because the average bathroom is not. I have a small bathroom actually. You don't have relative to my house and everything else. It's not big. It's not.

That's my house is huge. My bathroom should be huge. It's not. You know, Doug. It feels like a mile.

Doug. Doug has a lot of people. The guy with the least amount of people has the biggest house. Yeah. Have you got a new place yet?

Yes. Have it. Are you there? Not there. Not there.

Two house. You got it. Just square footage already. Okay.

“What are you going to do with the West Wing?”

You can stay on one side. I'm going to put a velvet rope in your palm. You have throw parties. What's going to do with me? Well, well.

Thank you. I'm just going to get your toothbrush. I just picked your dog in his pajamas running down the hole. Is your toilet with it? Five feet of your sink?

Let me think. Yeah. Oh, it is. Probably. I just rinse it in the toilet because I don't mess around nice.

Why is what? Well, so now toilet bowl water is actually supposed to be really clean. Not toilet bowl water. Yes. The stuff in the toilet.

Talk about the tank. The tank. Yeah. What do you mean? Why would the bowl be clean?

What do you mean? What do you mean? You have to ask. Hold on a second. Hold on a second.

Please. What do you do with the bowl water? Just like the dogs. You have a look on your face like you do with the bowl. I'm not borrowing you two.

You said a good place to scoop out drinking. No. No. If there's ever an emergency, the tank tank of the top. Yeah.

The tank. Not the bowl. I feel that looks way grosser. No. Have you ever lived to the back of that?

No. Nobody cooks on that though. Yes. That's the thing. Unless you do upper decker, which would be just.

That's the worst. Don't upper decker. Unless you really. You never fix that. No.

That's the right way. Yeah. No. It's not toilet bowl. That's the bowl water is not clean.

“So your place is that you're within five feet, huh?”

Sure. So you bought up a study that only affects you. No. Yes. Well, he was worried about it.

Yes. Are you? Are you within five? No. No.

It's probably like eight. Yeah. I mean, I'm percent of the people listen to. So do you guys that now we're going to start a downplay there. Yeah.

He's like, make sure I make you look like a total asshole. I've got this massive job. And he's not. We've got to have. I've got this.

Do you have TV in your bathroom? No. Okay. No. Okay.

No. You have a TV to closet? I do. Are you such a girl? Whatever.

You don't cool that is. Play sports when hang out in my clothes. His closet is pretty cool. Yeah. No.

Get into Adam's closet. It's a single club, dude. Yeah. With all his shoes. He showed me.

No. I'm cool. That doesn't care about any of that stuff. I mean, this guy shit sticks his toothbrush. Well, if you close the seat when you flush, that's what you need to do.

What I'm trying to say, you guys, is close the seat flush.

This is a PSA. Don't leave the seat up. I know you like to watch it go down, Justin. But put the seat down. You know what I mean?

Yeah. That's the hat. That's the hat. All right. So I want to talk to you guys about.

So one of our partners, Roe. I want to talk about liposomal technology, which has been around for a long time. And it's one of their, one of their selling points.

“And so I brought up some just some stuff on liposomal technology, which I think,”

you know, people need to know about. So liposomes are essentially the microscopic bubbles of essentially a type of effect. Yes, a phospholipid that surrounds the compound. And it protects it and brings it to target tissues. By the way, they use this for drugs.

So pharmaceuticals who use liposomal technology. But with supplements, I looked up the data. Do you know how much increases bioavailability? Oh, a bunch. Five, ten times.

Yeah. Five to ten times.

You know, I never heard about that until like maybe a few years ago.

Yeah. I feel like so many supplements are now moving. I'll give you an example, glutathione. If you take glutathione and it's not liposomal, you're wasting your time. Totally.

You, you, you, the, in fact, the old way of taking glutathione only used to be injection. Because if you took it early, you get no no rise in glutathione in your system. It was just a complete waste of time. Yeah. Liposomal glutathione definitely works because it's encapsulated.

And so what Rowe does with their products. They have creatine and AD. They have glutathione, they have magnesium. All of them have this liposomal technology. So when you, if you use those things in other ways and then you try Rowe's,

you're probably going to get better absorption. Well, we better on the liposomal glutathione kick for a while. But I, I like Rowe better because of the, it's in the bottom. I can, you can just squirt it in like this. Yeah.

So it's so much more convenient. Yeah. And I've been consistent with that, too. You just reminded me that. No, it's good.

It's good. I got one more study for you guys. It's so good. It's making you guys know, it's just, you know, way. You guys might have seen this actually.

It was a study on home school versus, you know, kids going to traditional school. And how well they do with their tests.

“Who does better home school kids or public school kids?”

Home school for sure. Oh, thank you. I like the, I like to see private school through a way. Yeah. Because I think, I think, like public school struggles big time against.

Yes, yes, yes, home school and private. But home school kids just generally crush and comparison to other kids. Do you think it's more, is it against private school kids? Oh, I like to see it. Now, private school kids tend to outperform public school kids.

I would like to see. But home school kids to do the best. I have a theory that that the, like, okay, what do you think is the, I think the, the biggest factor of that. I don't know.

I don't think it's curriculum. Just teaching. I don't think that. I, so I think it's two things. I know what you're going to say.

Um, home school parents really pay, they really pay attention and evolve. So, okay. So that, that's plays the biggest role. Well, I, well, I think that plays in what I, I think it's the ratio of kid to, to teacher. Of course.

Yes, attention. And home school is going to have one on four or one on one when you, because you're probably don't have the average person. Probably doesn't, is it homeschooling more than four kids at home? Are they really factoring in the parent that doesn't want to do it?

But is, you know, homeschooling? This is all homeschool kids. Yeah. Okay. So all of them.

Here's the other thing, too. When you talk to, I had clients that were really big in this community. I've told the story before, but they're kid was struggling. And I'm elementary school, like really struggling. And these were two really smart people.

They were successful in tech. They were able to retire. So they say, hey, we're going to homeschool this kid. And at the time, I remember thinking, like, that's not a good idea. 'Cause I had that kind of, you know, just that mentality around it.

Well, I was kid didn't really well as a result. Because you tailor it to your kid. Yeah. But anyway, I got into that community. Yeah.

Do you know how long you know what the average amount of education per day? Let's say, per school day. How much time a homeschool kid spend on it versus it's like a fruitless. It's like an hour or two. I mean, I was homeless.

I was homeless. I was homeless for a year. And when I was, it was in seventh grade. eighth grade. Because you got in trouble.

It was a, yeah, getting in fights. Yeah. That memories get bullied. Because when I'm married to the story when I was in Colorado.

And I, basically, I, I, it was in a full year because I was already going to school.

The first quarter. And then the rest of the year, I was homeschooled. And so basically, you just followed the school's curriculum. Yeah. And my mom would just give me the stuff that I needed to work on per day.

I was done in like two hours. Yeah. I would do the school work in two hours. I had the whole rest of the night. It was a distraction.

Yeah. Yeah. It was, it's crazy. Yeah.

“When you actually condense it down to what you need to do and just like hone in and focus on what's getting done.”

It's going to show you how it kills me. Yeah.

It's going to kill me about school in general. Yeah. I was just bored. Yeah. It's just wasted.

Yeah. Like time and effort. Yeah. It's so inefficient. You know.

And that just, I don't know.

Well, they always frustrated me.

The old argument against the two of those used to be the socialization. I know. That used to be the big argument. Yeah. But if you just keep your kid inside alone and that's all you do.

But they do activities outside of school. But I can't afford to put them in. It would be interesting to see how many because I do know. I mean, I have family that that whole school kid. Yeah.

And the kids are amazing. Some of the best kids that I've ever been around. So. But I also know they, they, they were very proactive about those. You know.

So it would be interesting to see if you, if you took all the home school parents.

“How many of them do a good job of actually doing that?”

Because I think I can also see how easily you could isolate your course. You know, because it's just like your home, your home all day anyways. And it's like, you know, the real effort is to get them involved in a lot of other like extracurricular things. Have you guys seen the data? I don't know what the exact numbers are.

Maybe you've done confine those. But the percentage of kids who are home school versus traditional education that then follow that then have their parents values as they get older. In other words, if you home school or your kids, what percentage of those kids will have your same similar value versus 80 percent. It's crazy.

It's crazy. It's crazy. You put them in these, these systems. You know, especially if it's vaccinated. Yeah.

Because they're like, God, they didn't, what happened to my kid? My kid's like crazy. And it's because they adopted these other. I wonder too how much like, like, it matters to how much the the parent is involved on a daily basis with the kids school work to. Because I think that probably matters.

Of course. A huge role of course. Like that's one of the things I love about Max's school. Is that it they force us to engage. I can't we can't go by that I can't be involved as a parent in the school work.

Yeah.

“And so that's part of the school work is he has they integrate the parents and in order for him to to be able to complete it.”

So it's. You have percentages on that dog. I don't see any percentage. If you could change. Yeah.

Why he's looking at that.

So we get yeah 49 percent in one study.

Yeah. I thought it would be hard. Well, we're talking about the efficiency of it and everything and like how like little time you just spent remind me of this quote. I was like my new. Favorite quote is the brevity is the soul of wit.

Which is from like Hamlet I guess, but it was just like to me of course my personality. It's kind of like, you know, I'm just very succinct. Yeah. Like what can I get done with the least amount of words. But yeah.

That's I like I would love to experience education like that. I don't know. I we got such a cool compliment for it. So right we're coming up on parent teacher conference stuff and Katrina and I are traveling during the time and so she she stayed to talk to the teacher and let her know. Oh, you know, what can we do this and that we're leaving town for this and that and ladies like oh you don't you don't need to come in.

And Katrina's like, well, no, the parent conference thing is she's like, yeah, no you don't your kids function. She's like, "Well, Ozume, it's not for your kid." - If Kitchews, like, what do you mean? - Just like, he's such a good kid.

“We really want parents to come in that we need to sit down and talk with.”

- Tommy, his parents come in. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - It was like a really cool compliment to,

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, the teacher would be like, no, no, no, he's doing just fine. - That's fine. - He's like, Ozume, you will take five minutes and just keep you updated on with that.

- Yeah, he's a great kid. (air whooshing)

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that I give you 25% off back to the show. (air whooshing) Our first caller is Megan from Alberta. Hi, Megan. Megan.

- Hey guys, how's it going? - Good, how can we help you? - Good, okay, so I'm just gonna jump in to a little bit of my back story here 'cause it's kind of long.

So my question is gonna be regarding the negative effects of an imbalance in the body. So four years ago, I was diagnosed with severe TMJ. Over those last four years, I have had three jaw surgeries.

The most recent being a full joint replacement and I still might need a fourth surgery. After my first surgery, my jaw pain started to get worse. And within that year, I started having a lot

As my jaw progressively got even worse yet.

So did my lower body pains.

“My feet and shins also started to become a chronic problem.”

It has become so bad now that most days, I can only take my dog for maybe a 20 minute walk. In some days, I can't even do that. I've tried everything possible so far, so I've done physio, osteopath,

chiropractor, massage, acupuncture. I've done Botox in my jaw twice. Done the Jew red light for about a year. Supplements, severe compression boots, ice, heat rest, stretching mobility,

and I got custom aids from my podiatrist.

So my podiatrist had recently set me

for an MRI on my ankles just before I had pretty back from you guys. I did get the results back. I just haven't had a chance to meet with him yet to go through it all.

But I kind of have the gist of it. If you guys want that information. - Yeah, for your turn. - Okay.

“I'm gonna probably scrap these some of these words,”

but so I'm both ankles, they're showing an elongated appearance of the periodist brevus and slight difference of the anterior telephibular ligament. Left ankle has tiny dorsal osteopytes.

Right ankle has some thickening in the ATFL. Trace fluid in the tendon sheath and remote tailo-nevicular injury of allgen. So the ATFL, it was complete without ruptures but most likely from prior low grade sprains.

I did play basketball a lot in school, but that was almost 20 years ago now. I gave these MRI results to my new osteopath and she showed me kind of where all the areas connect from the jaw to the feet and ankles and such

and nervous system. So we discussed the possibility that my severe jaw pain and inflammation would have affected these other areas and past minor injuries.

She also noted signs of dysfunction in my periodist dam system and may possibly have my own facial pain syndrome. Before I started this osteopath,

everyone kind of always told me just to rest, relax,

don't overdo it, which I've been doing. I haven't worked in like three years because of all of this and my pain has just progressively gotten worse and worse even within the last couple weeks. So I'm just sure of how I could do any less.

So I'm just wondering what your guys' thoughts and opinions are on the idea that my jaw could be affecting my feet and ankles as the last time I did see my podiatrist. He laughed at me for even suggesting that that's a possibility. So I just don't understand why all of a sudden

this is coming back or this is coming into my ankles and feet just with the vengeance. Yeah, really sorry you're going through that. One of the most challenging things is to deal with chronic pain and then to not be able to find a solution

or a root cause that could be super frustrating and you said you've been dealing with this for years. So that's really, really tough. Theoretically, pain and dysfunction in any part of the body can affect any other part of the body for sure.

And we could have physiological movement explanations,

“but I think the easiest explanation is if you hurt a lot,”

you're going to move differently. Okay, so it doesn't matter where you hurt. If it's chronic and in pain, you're going to move differently because you're constantly in pain. So that's possible.

There's other few areas that I would look if I were you though. Because it sounds like potentially there's also something systemic going on. So I would look for things that could cause changes to how your body perceives pain systemically.

Things that may cause inflammation. For example, or things that may cause dysfunction in a systemic way, I would test for heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure. I would test for parasites. All three of which can cause pain to pop up

And then what tends to be kind of signature with those things

“is you'll have pain in one area, then it pops up in another area,”

then it pops up in another area, and then before you know it, you're kind of hurting all over. Okay, so I would look at those things. And you could get tested for mold heavy metal and parasites. Just to rule them out, because I have worked with people

where they dealt with some similar to this. And it was also accompanied by foggy, feeling foggy minded. And they did have mold toxicity. And once they were able to, or mold exposure. Once they were able to solve that,

everything kind of went away. The other thing is this. We can't separate. It's impossible to separate the physiological from the psychological. And so, and it could look like this.

It could look like you have chronic pain from actual dysfunction. But then it causes so much distress. So much of an interference and interruption to your life. That you start, and this is literally for lack of a better term, because whatever I say this, people's reaction,

or is like, oh, what? You think it's all in my head?

Well, pain is always all in your head.

No matter what, even if I cut your arm off, the pain that you've perceived is in your head. So it's not like you're making it up. But the trauma that can come from chronic pain, especially if it's a major interference or interruption into your life.

Like you can't work, your relationships suffer. And it's just there all the time. It can cause this scenario where you have pain all over your body. But I would first rule out any kind of measurable, physiological condition or issue.

Now, you're going to osteopaths, and they're going to, they're going to image you, they're going to look at the joints. What it sounds like with your ankles is what you would expect if someone has ankle pain. Doesn't sound like there's this big red flag,

but I would expect to see something if you had pain. But if you were my friend, I wouldn't rush to surgery until we ruled out some of this other stuff. Because if it's not, if the surgery doesn't solve it, when you end up happening is a sequence of surgeries.

And then a potential loss of mobility and all that stuff.

“So have you had, have you tested for any of the things that I said?”

Have you seen someone functional medicine that can do that? I have, yeah, I did the cabrol heavy metal a test. It was a couple of years ago and now, but I just had minimal, like aluminum, which they said most people kind of tend to. And I do see an actual path here, and they tested me for

microtoxins, a mold, and I do have, I do have high records of that. And we've been working on it for a good six to eight months or so now. I just, yeah, I'm just trying to explore kind of every avenue because I know that the microtoxin in the sheet that he gave me, it did show like inflammation in the lower legs and, which I thought made sense.

So I was, that's kind of why I was going down that route. But then just, it kind of gets overwhelming. The more people I talk to kind of almost hinders it a little bit. But so these osteopaths, they're really great. But like, they're the first ones that kind of put that little seed in my head.

That it could be from, like, more or so from my ankle, or sorry, from my jaw. Yeah, just with the timing of it all, was kind of like, oh, maybe, you know, I just thought I was strange that it went straight to my feet and not to like, upper body, but whatever. It's possible, I mean, it's definitely possible, and I've seen, you know, like I said,

somebody listening right now, if your face and your neck were in constant pain, you would move differently here.

“Was that the only place that you had, like an injury that you can remember from back when?”

Like your ankles?

Um, yeah, I've never really had like any sort of major, like injury per se.

I've only sprained my ankles and like my fingers playing basketball, maybe at a distance, but I don't think it's been so long, but, um, I did hyper extend my one, my left knee.

I was going to try to work that into my question.

“Well, somehow, but, um, it is still a fairly weak knee.”

Like, I just can't seem to get that back, but there was no like, actual injury per se. I had all the scans and stuff. I just kind of already have double jointed knees. So I just kind of went back a little too far. Um, and then I had a horseback riding accident, but I didn't break anything.

I didn't, um, like, fracture anything.

I just was bruised, basically.

So nothing like two major, but. Megan, with the, with the, with the mold test and stuff, have you had your home test to deceive you have, uh, any mold in the house? No, we had just bought a new, not new, but new to us, um, homes. So I haven't done that, but how long ago?

Um, not even a year ago. Yeah. Okay, um, just just double track. You might want to test. Just to make sure, because it does sound a little, little, little systemic, uh, with what's going on, um, and then don't, uh, so here's a thing with pain.

You have the, we can measure what's happening with pain, um, we could see the signals being sent and we can see, you know, inflammation, but the perception of the pain is such a big part of it, uh, it's remarkable. I mean, it's remarkable. You could talk to surgeons about when they do surgeries on children who don't know any better. And versus adults, which are, you know, oh, man, I'm supposed to be in a lot of pain.

And there's a very different kind of response. Uh, my wife, uh, experienced this, um, uh, very, uh, it was very acute. She had this shoulder injury. She used to travel at the circus and she used to do the silks.

And it kind of became a part of her identity before that. She never worked out.

And suddenly, she was like, oh my god, I could do something athletic and I'm fit and I love it. And then she heard her shoulder. And, you know, when I started dating her, this was already years after she had left. She had this kind of chronic shoulder pain. And we would constantly do correctional exercise. And we had gotten to the point where her mobility and strength seemed okay, but the shoulder pain was still there.

And we had this discussion around this kind of trauma connected to the shoulder pain. And, um, we kind of worked on that and it just went away. And she was like, I didn't even, and I'm like, well, you know, it changed your life. And I can't imagine how much of an impact what you've experienced has had on your life and that. So don't just credit that as well, uh, in terms of how that could potentially be influencing,

you know, all of these things. And even influencing the systemic effect with your immune system. But I would continue to look, Lyme disease would be another thing I would look for, mold that too. I would look for these things that can cause an immune kind of reaction.

And then with exercise, I would train in a way that was correctional, movements always good,

sauna's always good, a good diet is always good, uh, but definitely one thing can affect another. It just just simply from the pain alone. I don't need to connect the dots and show how this is,

“you know, the how it's all connected. I think that's how doctors think. But it's like, you know,”

if I punch you in the face, you probably walk differently for a while until it healed, at which theoretically could affect your ankles, knees and everything else. Have you been able to get any relief with light movement, mobility with your ankles? Or is it just kind of aggravated? I feel like it just aggravates it. And again, that's the useful thing where I'm like nervous to do too much or like, you know, like even with mobility and, um, stretchy, like, sometimes a little

inflamed it. And then I'm sitting on the couch like dying, um, or sometimes I'm okay. But then it's the next day it hits me and it's just like nervous to, like, haven't been to the gym in like a year. But that's mostly because of my jaw because it just, like, you know, realize how much it, like, things can pull along. But like with the feet and ankles, like they literally just started getting to, like, the point I'm at now, which is I barely do anything, um, because they're so inflamed and they

just, like, it just kills me even to clean my house, kind of things. I have to break that up into different days. And, um, so yeah, I haven't done a whole lot of, uh, like, working out or anything.

“And I was hoping that made you guys could talk me and getting something. I think you're best”

approach with exercise is to do a little bit, um, every day when you feel okay, uh, use bands and

Those are the movements that I would do. Um, and you do, you would just practice them a little bit

“here and there when you feel okay. When you don't, you just squeeze the get a pump. That's it.”

And just kind of move through different ranges of motion, uh, and in those, uh, with those particular movements. But I would definitely look at things that can affect, uh, you systemically line, mold, I would look at, um, any, anything with the gut, uh, then I would look at any potential autoimmune issue. Uh, they could test for autoimmune issues, uh, to see if there's anything else like that. But those are the areas I would look because it sounds like it's systemic. It doesn't sound like

it's just one area with pain, uh, and then it's just staying there. Sounds like it's kind of found

a weak link that it could, that's our avatates towards you. Right. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah,

“but I don't, um, I will definitely try to do the prime pro. I appreciate you guys sending it.”

Um, I don't really have many good days, but I'll definitely do a little here and there and just see how, see how it goes because like nothing, nothing, um, that's one thing like I was with the red light. I was, I have really high hopes and and, um, with it to just show something, um, but I'm wondering if it is so, like systemic, like you stay, that's just not. Mm, maybe try to get to it. You've been tested for life, tried any peptides or anything yet. Um, I actually just started peptides four days ago.

It's really hard to get them here and Canada, they're honest and you about them. So I finally

found a hopefully reputable place to get them from. My girlfriend's been through these guys for about a year. So she hasn't died yet. So yeah, I started, um, BPC157, um, as listening to you guys, and then it has a mix of TV 500 in it. Okay. So it's only been here today. I'll be day five. Yeah. Um, you want to give that about a month or two. Yeah. And they like it, you tested for Lyme. I had asked that earlier. Uh, yeah, uh, many, many moons ago, um, it did

come back, cause a dude. Um, but it was, yeah, it was about, uh, 10 years ago or so. And I've, we've done so many things to work through it and nothing has ever budged with it.

“Yeah. So that's why we're, my natural path has me on the microtoxin route because he thinks that”

that could be blocking any sort of treatment. Okay. But see, so I do have that, um, as a natural past standpoint, if, if, if I test here in Canada through like a actual medical doctor, I show us a negative. Yeah. That's hard to, yeah, you get some of the testing is sometimes not sensitive enough. Um, well, yeah, I wish I could give you a better answer. Uh, but my, uh, my gut feeling is to look for something that's affecting your systemically and not, not locally, you know, not like it's

the joint, but rather why is my body, uh, so inflamed and why am I developing areas of inflammation is what I would look like. Okay. Right. And like when you mentioned diet, I know that lots of the foods that I'm eating are, um, like an inflammatory per se because like I, I'm so limited on what I can eat. Right. Like, uh, some days like an eat ground, ground beef, like in a spaghetti sauce day or something. And then some days I can barely, oh, well, I can barely have chewing, chewing

that like so lots of times I just try to, you know, choke it down, but um, yeah. So I am eating a lot of carbs and um, past the stuff like that soup. You get the occasion you shake in, but I got so sick of shakes from surgery that, like, kind of off of them, but so it's probably not that it's probably not a bad thing to avoid common food intolerances. So gluten, dairy, legumes, nightshades. Um, and so you'd stay kind of like, um, fruits, uh, you know, vegetables aside from nightshades,

it's stay away from nightshades and meats, um, and see, only because of the state that you're in, any, any common intolerance may mean things worse, but I, I can't hurt, I can't hurt to go in that

Megan, if you get any any more information, but love to hear me out. Yeah. Hopefully people watching this, too, they might, you know, know somebody or, you know, maybe there's a medical professional watching this as ideas, too. So hopefully it gets out and get you some answers. Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. You got it, Megan. All right. Thanks for calling. Awesome. Thank you so much. You got it. That's tough. Yeah. I didn't want to put her in a position on the call. What if I climb this rare

when you get somebody like this that's had that's like truck checking all the boxes, um, and they just can't get to the bottom of what it is. I've had experience, uh, many, not many, the handful of times where, uh, some of this stuff is related to like childhood trauma. Sure. And, uh, if you have just

powered through your life and never really done a lot of work on that, it tends to start to express

itself and all these weird things and injuries and symptoms and stuff and autoimmune issues and things that you can't quite get to the bottom of. And so, um, I didn't want to put her on the spot on, on the, you know, it's tough about that Adam. Yeah. That's by the way, that's a component. By the way, that's not woo. There's the, there's data support. Yeah. You can activate your immune system by, uh, by hating on hating yourself. Exactly. Your immune system starts to identify your body as a threat.

And we, we know this, the data can actually show this, um, and there's a very strong connection between autoimmune disease and depression and anxiety. And, and not just that they cause depression and anxiety, but depression and anxiety seem to cause higher rates of, uh, of autoimmune

issue. Um, the problem is when you communicate that, it, the person feels like dismissed or like,

“what do you, that's why I didn't want to say it. And this is, this is what makes what we do a little”

difficult because we have this, uh, you know, if 10 minutes at best, we get to know these people and that's short amount of time. And this would be something that, as her and I are training, I would slowly pull on that thread to find out more about childhood, personal life, things are going. So I'll tell a story. I'll tell a specific story. I had a guy that I trained who, his wife came to me first. Then he started training with me. And his body was so sensitive to pain.

That, like, my first couple sessions, I was shocked. Like, he do a row. And I'd put my hands on him to kind of move his shoulders and he go, ah, he'd like flinch. And I remember thinking like, this is really a weird reaction. And after like two or three sessions, it was like, and so we asked the questions, no illness, no this, no that. But like everything hurt and we had to be very careful. So all I did, and I, this is back in the day when I, you know, I mean, a lot of awareness

“around this. I had to remember, I had that really great physical therapist that worked in there.”

So I would do correctional exercises and stuff with them. But over time, what happened was we became friends. He became friends with the other people in the studio. And this is now looking back. He didn't have a lot of friendships. He's very lonely. It was just like, came in his wife and that's it. He didn't have anything else but work. And he started kind of coming out of his shell and his personality

change. He got happier. And through that process became way less sensitive. Now, he never got to

point where did I get after it. But the difference was dramatic. And I remember I would talk with my co-workers about this. And I worked with this guy for a few years. And they're like, you know, I wonder if it was just, he just had no, he was lonely. He didn't have any friendships. He had a really tough childhood. We never went to detail, but he would express that. Like, I wonder if it was just kind of him opening up. It was so protective of his body and protecting the open up.

And in the pain, significant difference in how we reacted. That's stuck with me. I was one of my

“first experiences with like, you know, what we're talking about. Yeah. And I think, too, like, you”

brought up even belly breathing with, I've had the same experience with a client who was really holding on, like, really holding on. And the release of it was like a crazy emotional experience. I've had that. So, you know, in terms of like, I don't know, maybe getting in there and like being able to meditate and, you know, dive in further, you know, that's worth investigating. I've had, you know, you're set a handful of people that like, where I just couldn't get to the

bottom of it, right? I couldn't find the professional. I couldn't figure out the thing. And then something miraculously happened where they had a breakthrough at therapy or they got married and also and found love or like, yeah, and then all of a sudden the pain is gone. And it's like, I didn't do anything different in their workouts or their diet. It was just, there was something. There was something going on inside internally that they were either suppressing or holding on to. And many

times, this is connected to childhood trauma stuff, things like that. And you know, again, I didn't want to, I don't want her to feel dismissed by that, like, by the way, the trauma could even simply be this. Maybe there isn't anything in childhood or they could be, but it could

I start for me to talk. It's hard for me to talk. It's hard for me to eat. I have to get another surgery. Now, I'm not working for two years. I have to get another, like, that spiral. Anybody goes through that. That is traumatic. That is severely traumatic. It changes everything. Right. Our next color is Nicole from Arizona. I'm Nicole. Hi, Nicole. Hello. Hi, guys. Thank you so so much.

“I seriously appreciate you giving me some time. Yeah, you got it. How come help me? Really?”

Okay. I'll just read the email. So, hello, my name is Nicole. I'm 25 years old and grew up playing soccer and overall being very active. Then, it's going to college and

I'll play soccer. I learned how to go to the gym and got into running mainly. I have always been

very indefinnists and healthy nutrition, but starting a few years ago, I took it too far and developed anorexia. Since getting back some weight, I've gotten to a point of the finish I've ever been. Yet, almost the least of it, because I over-trained and can't seem to find how much I need to fuel my body. I run five times a week and have gotten a deficit scan and I have 15 percent body fat and I'm trying to get stronger. I usually get about 30,000 steps every day, which I know

is too much, but I just feel like I have to move and if I don't, then I have to be way less. I get answers from most of the total daily energy expenditure results that I should be able to just

maintain at 2,200 calories, but sometimes I feel like I could just be like 4,000 calories every day

“and I'm hungry, but here I shouldn't eat too much and especially not carbs. So anyways, I think”

I'm doing too much, but would like to know how to make changes to work smarter, not harder, and do the transition to doing less without losing progress with my endurance and low body fat. Thank you guys so so much again, I really love the podcasts. Yeah, thanks for calling in, Hun. This is such it's so great to see someone your age, ask a question like this and there's some good self-awareness here, which gives me a lot of hope for what we want to do with you. Okay, I got to ask you,

do you have a regular period or has that been disrupted through the process that you went through through an RxC and the exercise and stuff? Is that all normal? That is actually still disrupted. I probably haven't, I mean, I didn't have it for probably two years and then after I kind of recovered for a little bit, I got it back a little bit, but then it's been another two years, probably since I've had it. Okay, so I'll give you the plane like what's happening,

but then let's talk about how we could get there. Okay, you're definitely over-trained, you're definitely under-eating still, for sure. Cool, now we know the hard part is how to get to a place where this doesn't feel so stressful. There's a couple of things you said, it'd be sides your past, which is obviously giving me a clear picture, but you said,

“I have to do 30,000 steps or I feel like I have to eat less. Who's forcing what do you mean?”

I don't even know, I swear for some reason, I've always been a room follower, but I just like

that these things or the health world says to do X or Y, and I take it to the extreme, and it's like, if I don't do my exercise, even if I'm exhausted, then the world is over, or whatever it may be. I get it, but answer the question, who is forcing it to do these things? I mean, it's myself. You know, that's it. That's it. And what it probably feels like to you, when you're creating the structure in these rules, is that it feels like I got my hands around it,

and I'm controlling things, which can feel calming when things feel out of control, or it feels like if I don't have my hands on these things, oh my god, what's going to happen? So there's a couple of ways we could go about this. Exactly, give you the answers right now, but I don't think it's going to help you. I think you either a need a coach to work with you through this process, because it's going to be a bit tough, and that's not feasible for you to call. If that's

something that's not available just financially for you, I think what I would do with someone like you, somebody who needs a target, is I would put you in a direction that's going to move you, the furthest away from this challenge. It's not the perfect target, but it's going to move you away from it, and there's a competitive element, which it sounds like you like. Sounds like you kind of like something aim for, and something that's competitive, and what I would do,

so here's your two options. Option one, the best, is work with a coach. We have coaches here at

Power lifting is going to be your best bet, as far as a competition in target, because it's going to,

if you're really seeking to get stronger and compete, it's going to move you away from all this other stuff that's a bit damaging. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I was just gives it, I like I started to try to like strength train, you know, in the gym, but it is like I feel like I just get like lost, or if I were to like imagine just doing strength training, which it's not even just like strength training obviously is very difficult,

but I'm like, oh, if I don't run and have this huge sweat, then like, yeah, I, you know, didn't get a good workout in, and now I have to eat way less, because I didn't burn as many calories

or whatever. It's so not true though, just so you know, and that feeling that you have where you

feel like you could eat 4,000 calories, that's your body's natural, so you don't say I need those calories. That's not a bad thing. That's like you go out and you do 30,000 steps in a day, which is crazy, a crazy amount of stuff. That's a ridiculous amount. That type of person doing 30,000 steps a day and running should be eating 4,000 plus calories a day, and if you're not anywhere near that, the reason why you feel like you're starving is because your body is, and which is also why the

period is shut down, is that our body fat person is just too low, we're pushing way too hot,

“we're way on the other extreme with them, and this is why Salah saying the coach is so important”

is because this isn't like one or two little just tweaks, this is a process, because we have to get on the whole other side. In fact, what it looks like is increasing calories, cutting those steps down to under 10,000 steps and just lifting weights. That is so the opposite of where you are. The coach is good guy and it's really easy for us to sit on our podcast chairs and tell you that. It's another thing to implement that and do that, and the voice is in your head that are telling

you all these things, and then heaven forbid, you see the scale go up a few pounds and then freak out and think you're going a wrong way, when actually you're building muscle and going the right way, that's where the coach comes in, is the coach is the one who kind of talks you off that ledge, every day and goes Nicole, you're doing great. This is perfect, this is right where I want you like, oh we're doing like that's the real value, it's less of the X's and O's, and it's just

that where you're at and where we need to go is a pretty far trek and getting there is not hard from a physical standpoint, it's hard from a psychological standpoint. Let me just let me just communicate something to you, that you may be aware of, but you might not be aware of, this control that you're putting around all these things, it's actually the reverse, it is controlling you. So you weren't actually at a control, you are being tyrannized by exercise, diet, stress, body

image, all these things are controlling you, you're not controlling as much as you're trying to control it,

“it's actually controlling you, which probably gives you the sense that you need to control”

it even more, and so this is kind of like spiral, it's a spiral down. Yeah, so the answer is to

is to do the scary thing which is to give the control up completely, but the easiest way to do that is to give it to someone else. Now I'm going to paint a couple pictures for you, here's one path is if you keep going now, you're 25, you're young, but you're already, your period is irregular, you're feeling like, oh my God, this doesn't feel good, what does the bone disease say on your Dexter's scan, did you see it? Was your bone density okay? My bone density is actually okay,

my dad also got a dexter and they told him he was built like a tank, so I think I just have good genetics when it comes to bones. Good, so what'll happen if you keep moving down this path is it's going to get more stressful, more difficult, more challenging, more negative symptoms, and it's going to feel terrible. So right now youth is helping protect you a little bit, but if you keep going down this path, it'll be really, really nasty. Now the other path that we

could do right now is you relinquish control to someone you trust, how long have you been listening to our show, by the way? It's been a couple years now. Okay, so you like us, you trust us a little bit, you think we know what's up. Okay, so I, we have hand-picked coaches, because there's great coaches out there, unfortunately there's a lot of bad ones, the ones that we have are really good. So when you hear this communicate, are philosophy around health and fitness and the methods,

“that's what our coaches do, and they're going to walk you through this entire process, and what”

you're going to do is instead of giving up control completely, which is really scary, you're going

even though it's scary, even though it's uncomfortable, I'm just going to follow what you're saying,

and then you're going to give them that control, and then the process that that looks like is think wearing, it's like training wheels is eventually you start to trust the process, and you don't need to give that control to someone else, then you're not with the coach, and it's totally different. It's a totally different relationship, you don't feel trapped, you don't feel controlled, you feel vibrant, and now this health and fitness is now a vehicle for

freedom and not a vehicle for tyranny, which is what you're experiencing. So call you brought up, your dad did the desk scan, he did it with you. Do you live at home still, or is he aware of where you're at? And yeah, I live at home, or I finished calling him and I've been at home right now, just kind of working a little bit. Is he, does he know everything like as far as the end it

actually, and what you've gone through? Yeah, having my mom, I've never really worked with too many

other people, my mom was kind of my main little superstar helping me through everything, so.

“That's wonderful. Okay. Do you think a coach is, is that something that's feasible for you?”

Would that be something you'd be interested in? I do think so, because I just, that's my biggest thing, is my family is not super fit and healthy. It's, and, you know, I kind of grew up in a house, told where it's like, oh, you know, we could sit on the couch all day, whatever doesn't matter, you know what? It's totally fine for some people, my family's the best, but I just, so I feel like I've always lacked trust in the people around me. I'm like, I have to do the opposite of what they're doing,

you know? And so, like, it's just hard for me with like anybody to be like, okay, how can I trust that they know exactly what my body needs, even though I'm not even really listening to my body by pushing it to the limit, but it's like, it's just that trust kind of thing. Yeah, okay. Well, take care of you. If you trust us, if you if you trust us, and we hand pick these people, I'll have somebody call you today, and this is your best bet, and because of your awareness

“and your age, I have really high hope. I think you're going to do just great. Yeah. I think you're”

going to do just great. Okay. Okay. Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. You got it. We'll see you on later calls and call. Okay. See you. Bye, guys. Thank you. Support this. We grow. Yeah. That's tough. You know, it's, so again, this is when I talk to people when they have a, that kind of awareness, the odds are high. It's still hard. She's going to have to do some hard work, but the odds are high. Especially her age. 25. I was like, "Hey, man, I got these issues and I need some help."

Oh, yeah. Most people would be R and Denial right now. Yeah. Most people are still in Denial about it. When they just keep going until their body shuts the heck down, then you get all kinds of really bad. Well, I mean, she's already having hormonal stuff, right? Obviously if her period's been shut down like that. Oh, yeah. But early enough, young enough, and it's great that she's got her bone density was okay too, because that's the next thing that you start to see to deteriorate. That's

right. And so, you know, catch it now and we'll be okay. You know, the hardest part to me is that

the answer is actually really easy. Like, it's like, it's like, because you're, you're actually

“telling somebody who's doing way too much to, to do less, eat some more. You know what I'm saying?”

Like, and that seems, you, the average person's listening is just like, "It's because you can't get in their own way. You can't know it just in your head." She knows it in her head. Yeah. She doesn't feel it. Yeah. What she feels is the opposite. And that drives that your actions are. You can try going from your head all day long. What it would look like for Nicole is she would be like, "Okay, cool. I'm going to do the steps." And then she feels so strongly against it that she would

just stop. But the coach is there to give that to them and you follow them. And there's going to be some stumbles. She's for sure going to not do what the coach says for a little bit and go back and maybe struggle and argue. But eventually, it'll get to play where she knows it. Where she actually knows it on the inside, not just in her head. Yeah. Our next caller is Alyssa from California. Hi, Alyssa. Hello. Hey, oh my gosh. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys in person. This is so

weird. I listen to you every single day. My kids even know who you are when I told them I was coming on. They were like, "Oh my gosh, it's the my problem guy." So yeah. Thank you so much for calling her. How long have you been in Oakdale for? I've been here for about three years. I'm originally from Oklahoma, but I moved to the Bay Area like 22 years ago. So I was like in Pleasanton, Dublin. I don't know if you guys know are familiar with Bay Area. We're familiar with all that. We're

in the Bay Area. And we know all that. And I grew up in Oakdale. Oh, did you know? Yes. Yes. Oh, that's honestly. Yeah. Were you at what part of town are you at? I'm kind of over on the east side

area. Yeah. Yeah. My sister lived back over there for a while. Right over with the junior high is back over there. Yes. Yeah. The junior high is actually in my backyard. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I can hear the the band practicing everyone. Yeah. Well, how can we help you? Well, I just thank you so much first of all because you guys have literally like changed the game for me. Like in the sea of like strength training and nutrition, health information, like you guys keep it real and I trust you

more than pretty much anybody on the internet because it's just a get so confusing and overwhelming. But I'll just start off my stories kind of complicated and long. So I'll just kind of shorten it for you. I'm 40 almost 46. I have dealt with Interaxia nervosa pretty much my whole life. Like since I was 10. So I've it's been a battle. I've, you know, carried forever. But I've been

in treatment most times in and out. Never really helped me. They'd put me in, you know,

feed me 4,000 calories plus get a much weight, come home, feel gross, lose it again, over and over.

“What really helped me the most, I think was when I was 13, my dad introduced me to strength training.”

He was always the bodybuilding, weightlifting, all of that. He took me to the gym and changed the game for me instantly fell in love. Like it was back in the 90s. So girls weren't really like in the gym doing like, you know, bodybuilding moves. And I was in there like, you know, fast squatting and, you know, awesome. All that stuff. And I just, it changed how my relationship with food and my body is, for the first time, food wasn't scary. It was something I needed to like get strong and build

my body up. And I wanted to get stronger. And it was amazing. Fast forward, I became personal trainer

in college, loved it. It just, it just was something that, you know, it kind of cured me from that interaction for a while. Got married, had a kid, had twins, had another kid, and it just kind of, I have, I'm a mom of four kids. So, you know, going to the gym is not that easy when you're a mom with four little kids. So I stopped going to the gym, kind of in a bad marriage, just fell in back in the old ways, the interaction and just kind of battled up and down for years. So fast

forward here, I am now. And single mom got four kids, they're all teenagers. And I just, I'm, kind of, in on my way back to recovering again. I'm, I'm not at a healthy way. I know I need to gain weight, but I've lost a lot of muscle and all my years of restricting. And I'm starcaping it, click, extreme. Like I have zero muscle mass right now. And I want to get back in

“strength training because I know how important muscle is, especially getting older. I don't want”

to be in my old age fall break a hip and end up in the hospital. And, you know, I mean, I listen to like Gabrielle Lion, I listen to you guys, you know, and like the muscles important. And for me,

it's never, like I don't have body dysmorphia. Like I don't, like I know I'm way too skinny. And I,

I just, I want to feel strong again. Like my kids have never seen me strong. And I miss that feeling. Like I can't even go to Costco by myself and get stuff because I can't lift anything. You know, I have to get my teenagers to lift Amazon boxes off the porch. And I want to be strong again. But I don't know where to start because I hadn't lifted, like I said, since my 18-year-old, you know, before she was born. So, and I just feel so weak. Like I can barely do anything. Like I,

I really have no muscle mass. Like, so I just, I wanted to get you guys input on where to start. Like, I feel so intimidated. I have a gym access. I have a gym right down the street. But I'm intimidated to go, you know, like with my personal training history and everything. I kind of know what to do. I just, where I'm not now physically. I don't know, I don't know where to go. I'm lost.

“Yeah. So, that's why I, that's why I wanted to, you know, I trust you guys. And I just kind of”

wanted to see where you would, you know, where you would put me. Yeah, I got blessed. I think we could help you with this. Did the, if it's okay, I'd like to ask you a few more questions? Of course. Yeah. Did, did, did, did, did this start with body image issues or was it a control thing when you started the relationship with, with anorexia? You know, I think he was, I think he was kind of a little bit of both. It was started with body image and then it turned into

think anything. I didn't even think about my body. You know, I just kind of ate and did, you know, did my thing and had a, had a friend like poke my belly when I was, I still remember it, like,

poke my belly. It's, oh, you've got a pop belly. And it was the first time I was like, oh,

should I be thinking about my body and then that kind of scout cascaded into, you know, a diet and restructing and then it just went from there. And then from there, it kind of became a control thing. Like, in times of stress, that's kind of when the anorexia wears a tent. It's like, this is my way to kind of control something in my life because everything else is out of control. And so, you know, so yeah. It's, uh, it's that, it's that comforting friend. It is. Yeah. It's no dysfunctional friends. Exactly.

It's no different than somebody going to alcohol for that, you know, that kind of that relief or great awareness around all. And yeah, and it sounds like you're ready to care for yourself.

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. That's exciting. So here, I'll give you some advice. So I totally hear you

“with the intimidation with the gym. And so I think a step by step approach is the best. I think”

with a good routine that you could do at home to start with would be great to build some strength and confidence before going back to the gym. Do you have anything at home like dumbbells, suspension trainer, resistance band, anything like that? Yeah. I've got, I've got to set a 15 pound dumbbells and I've got a 45 pound kettlebell. Great. Okay. Okay. Great. I think map starter would be a good program to start with. Okay. Okay. I also think map suspension would be another, a good program.

And what I'm going to do, we don't normally do this, Alyssa. You don't have a suspension trainer?

I don't know. Okay. We're going to send you a suspension trainer. And I'm also going to send you

map suspension. Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh my god. So you have two options. You'll have map starter and map suspension and they're both great at home programs. Okay. I think doing a little bit daily is a good idea in combination with some of the changes in diet. Have you made any dietary changes? Not really. I'm kind of, I'm kind of stuck right now. I'm like a very low calorie.

“I'm about 1500 calories, but I'm slowly gaining on that. I think I've suppressed my metabolism”

so much. And because I don't have any muscle, I just, you know, I barely have any. I just feel like I can't eat without, you know, at really gain weight. And I know I need to eat to build. Yeah. To build any muscle. So you know all the stuff up here. Yeah. But we got to get you to feel feel it because if you do the right things, but you don't feel right about it. It's going to be very difficult to stick to. So, and how do we get there? You're going to have to not weigh yourself.

So I'm going to need you to get rid of your scale. I mean, that, I mean, literally get rid of it. Not have a scale in your house. So throw it away and not study yourself in the mirror. In fact, ignore your reflection in the mirror because it's going to mess with you. And you're going to have to consciously think about how you feel and think about your strength. What I mean by how you feel is not like a, I feel gross, but try to pick out the, the, the strength, the energy and the mobility.

And you're going to have to consciously think about those things because your nature is to not. Your nature is going to be to think about how I look, the scale, and in my feeling fatter,

“do I feel bloated? Do my stomach is full. Okay. So, so this is going to be, you have to retrain”

your focus. What you focus on is what you see. And there's lots and lots of data to support this. So several times a day, I want you, you're going to have to think about strength. Think about energy, think about how much weight I'm moving, mobility, and just focus on that. And when you find yourself thinking about the other stuff, instead of not thinking about that, good luck. It's like, don't think about a zebra. Now you're thinking about zebra. Is you're going to

think about strength, think about mobility, think about energy. And then that slowly should get you to this point where you start to feel confident and go back to the gym. Diet wise, you're going to have to completely ignore your feelings of satiety and fullness. So, because your relationship to that right now, if I tell you to listen your body from that standpoint, you're going to keep eating little. So, you're going to kind of have to eat in an uncomfortable way. So, you're going to have to kind

of seek that out a little bit. Like, I'm going to eat until I'm really full. And then I'm going to eat until I'm really full. Now, working with a coach would be very beneficial for someone like you to kind of help you through this process. You can kind of outsource some of that trust. I don't know how

you in to our studio just to meet with us. You can listen to a live episode. I can introduce you some of our trainers. And even if you were to visit us every other month and meet a trainer here,

“I think that would be beneficial. Or you could do something more consistent where you work with”

one of our coaches virtually. And they can kind of help through this process. I think that would really, really be helpful. But yeah, that would not be awesome. But I'm going to send you those two programs. I'm going to mail you a suspension trainer. And then if you'd like, I can have one of our coaches call you and then see if any of that works for you to be a little kind of walk you through this process. That would be so great. Thank you so much. Because I just feel,

I just feel kind of lost right now. But that would be a game changer. So I just, oh my gosh,

thank you so much. You're actually in a great place. Mentally, you're in the right place. You've self-awareness is incredible. You know where you need to go. Sounds like you're willing to outsource that to somebody else guide you to that process. We'll take care of you. Yeah. We'll take care of you. Thank you so much. I just, you're going to do great. I do. I just want to be, I just want to feel healthy. You know, like it's not about like body image anymore. It's about like just being strong

and healthy for my future and for my kids and to be a good example. You know, I've got two daughters. And you know, I'm going to show them what it's like to be a strong woman. And you know, I don't want to be this weak little thing anymore. You know, that's about us. That's about us. That's an awesome

idea. If I had one of your daughters on here and I asked them, how much do you live your mom? What

would they say? Oh, man. I think they live me a lot. Yeah. I want you to look through their eyes at yourself and try to care for yourself like they would. And it's going to be counter to what you

“used to. But I think that'll help direct you in the meantime. That's why I love you. How do my”

daughters think of me? I love my daughter. I love that being your goal. I love that. It's not it's a selfless. It's you know, I want to show my daughters that is what's going to motivate. That's going to put you through the uncomfortable times of what a trainer tells you. I need you 2000 calories and you're like, oh my God, that feels so much or I'm stuff. I don't like it. And like, if you just keep remembering why you're doing this, you're going to be fine. That's right. You're going to

get through this. This is going to be good. Absolutely. I've got my 18 year old daughter. She's not going to she's taking a gap here and she's here with me all the time. And she asked me that I was like, Mom, we should start going at the gym. Yeah. I was like, we should. She's really interested in it. So I think that would be motivation too, you know. Hell yeah. It's going to get strong with her. Yes, good them in this process. That support is going to help so much. I'm going to have

some of reach out to you. In the meantime, we're going to mail you the suspension trainer. You'll get the two programs. And then I hope to see you. I know we're not too far from you. So I hope we get a chance to meet you. And you can come up. I would love to come up with a zit. I would love that. Awesome. Awesome. We'll set it up, Lisa. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate it. You guys are just the best. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, everything you do. Take care. All right. All right.

Well, that's good motivation. Great attitude. Great attitude. Perfect place. Great place. Wow, man, we got two today like you know. Yep. You know, again, it seems so like the the simple answer jumped to 2000 to 2300 calories lift weights three times a day three times a week. And that like solves everything. But it's like that is to get there. Any severe challenge will battle by the way, for people listening right now who are like, oh, it's just do this. Yeah, it's not.

You know you got your stuff. Everybody does that thing you can't stop. And the answer is stop doing it.

“And you can't. Yeah. That's what they're dealing with. And it's very difficult. But there is there is a light”

at the end of the tunnel. It's just a process. Yeah. Our next color is Sarah from Colorado. Hi, Sarah. I Sarah. How are you? I'm good. Thanks for having me on. How can we help you? I'm just going to read my question because I'm really nervous. Okay. My heart's racing. So thanks so much for taking my question. I've been listening over the past year and pretty much bingeing the podcast on my daily walks. I've learned a ton from you. For a little context, I'm 41,

a full-time working mom of two boys in a PE teacher. So I'm active throughout the day. Between my job and walking, I have around 15,000 steps per day. Fitness has always been part of my life. I was a professional ballet dancer for a time. Later, a collegiate cyclist with a very endurance heavy background. And I also spent years doing CrossFit. At this stage of life, I found that doing three full-body workouts per week and walking gives me the best return on investment.

I feel strong and consistent and not burnt out, which is important to me right now. My question is about VO2 Max and longevity. I keep hearing it described as one of the strongest predictors of long-term health, which makes me wonder if I should be doing more intentional cardio or an interval work. At the same time, I'm pretty much burned out on structured endurance training

is already strength training consistently and highly active, day-to-day, is there a meaningful

added benefit to deliberately training VO2 Max for longevity? Whereas often overemphasized compared to just keeping strong maintaining muscle and staying active with lots of walking in daily movements as we get older. I love how you put that last sentence. Totally. That's exactly how I feel. Yeah, so there's generally, yeah, there's benefits to improving VO2 Max through some hit training for longevity. Specifically, for you, no. You hate it. And I know you're background.

Professional ballet dancer, cyclists, crossfit. You probably had a relationship and maybe you even struggle with this a little now with fitness where it was like beating yourself up and you're

“probably over it. You're probably over it and I don't want to do that to myself anymore. And I think”

training hit is going to probably move you in a unhealthy place. You're in a beautiful place.

You're crushing. Yeah, you're in a beautiful place. You're right where someone with your past to what you've done where you're right where I'm. It's not going to improve your longevity for you. And then you would make things worse. And by the way, if you ever, like we, let's say we're trying together for years and you're like, you know, I'm just curious, you could spend two weeks and improve VO2 Max dramatically. Like literally, you can like cardiovascular endurance comes back

like this. Not to mention building muscle, automatically increases VO2 Max. People know that. Yeah. It automatically does because of the oxygen consumption of muscle mass. By the way, you like strain training. You want to get, you want to get a little, you want to get a little

VO2 Max. Do a few weeks where you're resting 30 seconds between sets of squats. You do 15 reps

of squats. Rest 30 seconds. Go do another 15 reps. Boom. You're set. Yeah. If you really want,

“but here's the important thing for someone like you, Sarah, with your background. Make sure”

it's something you enjoy because because because your past, because I've trained ballet, people don't appreciate professional ballet incredibly challenging. Yeah. And also very body focused. It's one of the more difficult spaces to come out of for women. Some of the most difficult clients ever work out of. I love where you're at. And yeah, so I'm like enjoy it. Yeah. So just go and enjoy it. You, you're walking and moving as much as you're walking and moving. You're killing it. Three days

of full body training. I mean, we are in the sweet spot right now. Here's the real question. How's your relationship with diet? Because I know that's the big struggle with people with that background. I feel like I dodged that bullet somehow. Yeah. I love to. I mean, I consider going to culinary school. I, I'm, I love food. I feel very, very fortunate. I mean, even cycling people can get weird with that stuff. Yeah. No, I, I, I feel like I eat pretty well. Good. You're fine. Yeah. You're not just

fine. You're killing it. Yeah. Don't overthink it. Yeah. Yeah. You know what can happen a lot of times people is they, they go on fitness social media. Yeah. And then they start hearing all these little studies and this and that and then they start questioning things. And but the way you ask your question, it sounds like you kind of know the answer. You're a little confirmation. You're perfect. Yeah.

“No, I, I, 15,000 steps, three full body workouts, eat balance meals. That's what you”

have. Yeah. Yeah. Great. That's where I want you. I don't want you moving out of that. I love that. Perfect. Yeah. Killing it. You're killing it. Yeah. Good job. See the course. Thanks so much. Thanks. Yeah. That's a beautiful spot. Yeah. And you know what? Again. So here's why this is why it's so like being a coach and a trainer. You work with different people. If this was a general question, would a person get some longevity benefits to adding something to improve VO2 Max,

so long as it's program properly, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Generally, generally be like, yes, for for her, no, not with your background, not with the fact that you already said you hate it. And you don't want to get burnt out. It's going to make you more unhealthy. It's going to, it's going to contribute to worse longevity. Not better longevity. This is one of the new ones. Yeah. And you also, I mean, you want to increase that. Go do 15. 15 reps for rest periods.

You got it. And you will. You will absolutely get it. Or you decide one month, you're going to do it for two weeks, two weeks, get after it and then get right back to your watch. I mean, this is what I don't like about studies like that. And the way she phrased the last sentence, I don't remember how exactly how she said it, but she said it beautifully, like in the context of where she's at, you know, is it, is it often over-efficized compared to just keeping strong, maintaining muscle and

staying active with lots of walking and dealing movement as we get older? Yeah. Yeah. It's like that. The youth stay strong. Total youth stay mobile move and do that. That is way better win for

ideals. Thank you for listening to Mindpump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically

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