2819: You'd Look Better With MORE Body Fat

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind,

there's only one place to go. Mind, mind, up with your hosts. Salto Stefano, Adam Shafer, and Justin Andrews. You just found the most downloaded fitness health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump and today's episode.

Callers called in. We coach them. We help them on air live. So it was a good time. By the way, that happened after our intro.

Today's intro was 66 minutes long. When it's long, this is what we talk about fitness and family life and current events. We always have fun.

“If you want to call in and have us coach you on air, here's what you do.”

Send your question to MP Life caller.com. Now, episode is brought to you by some sponsors.

The first one is butcher box today.

We talked about their wild caught fish. But they also have grass fed meat heritage pork. This is all delivered to your door at great prices. If you like protein, it should probably do because you listen to Mind Pump. And you want it to be healthy.

And you want to save money. Here's what you do. Go to butcherbox.com/mindpump. If you're a new user, you'll get your choice between free chicken breasts. For a year, shrimp included for a year or ground beef included for life.

That's a great deal. This episode is also brought to by Monu Korah. This is Manuka Honey, but the highest concentration of MGL. You'll find anywhere anti-bacterial. Heels your gut, anti-inflammatory.

It's great to add to your postwork out shake for a little bit of that sugar. And it's got health benefits. Go check them out. Go to Monu Korah.com/mindpump. That's m-a-n-u-k-o-r-a.com/mindpump.

The code "mindpump" gets you a massive discount. We also have a huge sale on a bundle. A brand new workout program bundle. It's the spring bundle. Maps, symmetry, maps, prime, and the advanced training techniques guide all together.

Only 147 head over to mapsmarch.com. All right. Real quick, if you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now.

Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's it. Joy the rest of the show. Look, check this out.

A lot of you would look way better. Fetter. [laughs] Are we talking about people that are bikini, bodybuilders,

“that like 5% body fat, is that what you're going to do?”

That's obvious. I think that's obvious. They're just too lean. You can't be that lean all the time. It's unhealthy.

But I'm actually talking to fitness fanatics. Like dudes that feel like they need to walk around at 10% women that need to walk around at 19% all the time. I think, and I know you're surrounded by the fitness space. You're going to all this stuff advertising.

But what's funny is that, if you're fit, you got muscle. You probably as a woman would look better around 23%, 24% is a dude, 13, 14% body fat. And it's funny because when they ask the opposite sex, this is what they typically point to.

Unless they're in that space in which case we tend to worship this. Yeah, because it looks more healthy. Yeah, you're not struggling to get food in. Your body just sits at that nice percentage. And it just looks like you're thriving versus like, you know, you're starving yourself for a look.

I find this a really interesting conversation right now. In particular with what I just kind of went through the last, you know, whatever it was.

“I think it was a month ago or so that I had tested my body fat.”

And I'm pretty good about like, you know, look at someone or myself. Yeah. And judge your body fat. Yeah, judge my body fat percentage. It's not that often that, especially myself who I've done that so many times.

What I have guessed that far off that I was and it was really like enlightening for me. And reminded me of something that I feel like I've talked to clients about many times.

But it's always neat to see that.

You unveiled even to myself. And what that is and what I realize is that it actually had less to do with my body fat percentage. That I have a good amount of lean body mass on me. Yeah. 180 pounds.

Some body fat on muscle looks great. Yeah. Yeah. And so why I like the direction you're going is that if you would have asked me even just a decade or so ago. What percentage body fat?

Do I like my physique and I say, oh, it's probably around 10. Maybe 12 percent body fat, you know, somewhere in that range. And I think I'm the happiest there. I'm the most comfortable diet wise. I like the way I look, all these things like that.

So to have already to actually to have the reverse happen to me where I've been training for a while back in my rhythm, you know, hearing from my wife. Oh, you look so great right now. Like feeling good. I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I like how I feel right now.

I'm probably lean out a little bit. I like how I feel. And then I'm like, yeah, I might be a little bit higher than that 10 to 12 percent. And I'm probably more like 14, 15 percent.

And there's always a part of me too that kind of lies to myself.

It says that I think I'm 14, 15, but I really think I'm more like 13.

So I'm like, already setting myself up.

“And so to get the test back and to be as high as like 18 and went, what?”

And like no way, because the last time I was at that's the closest to the highest body fat percentage, I've ever, I've ever tested.

And I know how I looked and felt at 19, which is only 1 percent difference.

So it's like a huge difference body fat percentage wise. But I obviously have a significant more amount of muscle at that 18 percent. Because when I was 18 percent, I, or 19 percent, I was 211 pounds. Oh, when you did your first. Oh, yeah.

So this time I weigh 233 pounds. 20 pounds of muscle. Or at least. So, but 1 percent body fat difference. But a significant difference in lean body mass.

And looking at, looking at myself going like, oh, wow. That's crazy because if you would ask me. And so it really, and it highlights to me what I've communicated. I feel like to a lot of my female clients in the past that get hung up on like the what you were saying, this number of like, oh, I think I want to be like 19 percent.

Like I know what I've looked like at 21 or 22 percent. I want to be a little bit leaner than that. And it's like, you know, that's a better goal than I'd say a scale goal. Like someone who says, like, I want to weigh one because that's a horrible goal. That's right.

Right.

“But even the more I realize with myself, like even a body fat percentage isn't”

ultimately that great of a gauge too, because how different a 12 percent

version of me in an 18 percent version of me can actually look. Here's what you say. Softly lean body mass. Totally. And here's what.

So we'll talk just physiologically. And even we'll talk about athletic performance here. But physiologically speaking. So here's the context. You have to, you have the same person.

Both fit, both strong, both, you know, good fitness. Good, you know, view two max strength mobility, that kind of stuff. Right. We'll talk about a guy over here. He's 10 percent over here.

He's 15 percent. First off, the 15 percent version is going to have better athletic performance. Yeah. And we know this by the better stamina. Better strength, better stamina, better resilience.

This is a big one. Like if you get sick or you get injured, he's going to be more resilient at 15 percent body fat. So that's number one.

“Number two, his hormone health is better.”

It's more likely to be better around 15 percent than a 10 percent. And natural guy.

And there's always exceptions to the rules.

We'll stop pointing to the pro athletes that are genetic for each. Okay. I'm talking about most people, like 99 percent of people listening right now. Most natural dudes go from 15 to 10 percent. They sacrifice testosterone.

They sacrifice hormone health. They sacrifice immune health. And they do sacrifice athletic performance as well. That's, there's that part. Then there's this part when women are asked majority of them when they're looking at a dude who's fit.

They kind of prefer the guy that's like 13 to 15 percent over the 10 percent. Why do they prefer that? Because we tend to look for signs of health and fertility. Yeah. Now, I'll speak to women.

Again, it's subconscious. It is. It, I'll speak to women. Both fit. Both working out.

Both. Okay. Doing well. 19 percent. 24 percent.

The 24 percent woman, and this is even more true for women than for men. Because their bodies are more sensitive to this than men are. The 24, 25 percent woman whose fit healthy muscle to hold you. She's going to have a better hormone profile. She's going to be more fertile, more regular periods.

Less, you know, PMS symptoms. So hormone health veterans. Much better resilience. Better athletic performance. And most dudes would say she looks better.

She's got the curve. She's got the, and she looks good. And so what's happened is we've got this distortion because the people who are communicating health aren't really communicating health on social media.

What they're communicating is a body obsession. And so they tend to present this extreme. Now, let's talk about general health, like overall health. For most guys, including the guys in this room, who know what we're doing. If, you know, if you're going to walk around at 10 percent body fat,

you place a higher focus on your diet, dare I say a slightly unhealthy, and many cases, a very unhealthy focus on your diet. You don't have a lot of flexibility. You're really paying attention to what you eat so you can maintain this 10 percent. 15 percent?

You generally eat healthy, but you enjoy the occasional going out. You're not that dude that goes out of the signal story. I can't have, you know, this, I got to eat this particular way. Same thing for women. So mental health in terms of body obsession and stress around diet.

Is much better. So I just want to communicate this because now there are a lot of people that are listening who are just getting into exercise, just getting into watching what they're eating. And so, you know, they're kind of aiming for this we're talking about.

But there's also a significant percentage of our audience that are fitness fanatics who, you know, women who think they got to get to 19 percent guys and you get 10 percent. And they think they're going to have the dramatic improvement in health

Or happiness when the truth is the opposite.

You're actually going to sacrifice a lot of things for a look. And you're not going to get much in return except for a body fat percentage that you're seeing on a scale. I want to add to that and poke holes a little bit in that study. And not to debate you but to add to an even greater point to this argument

because those studies that like take general people who generally keep themselves with that body fat percentage, the argument you're making is that most opposite sex likes the opposite sex a little bit higher body fat percentage and even that is generally speaking. Because if you were to take like using myself as an example again,

what I look like right now at 18 percent, I can show my wife for

general population a 15 percent version or a 14 percent version of me. And I bet you if I put them next to each other and you said,

“what are you more attracted to or what do you think looks better?”

More people would say what I look like right now at 18 percent than what I have even then. So even that doesn't tell the full story. And in the case that I'm trying to make is the importance of building muscle to the muscle part.

And because that's the healthy. Yes. And the little bit of a higher body fat percentage and a lot of the research in the studies that we have. Oh, this is kind of optimal or ideal or healthy.

Again, is taking a general population. I think there's a lot of people that could build 10, 20, 30 more pounds of muscle on them and their body fat percentage stay the same. Which means they added body fat. Right.

Right. Which means they got they added more fat to their body. But they added 10, 15 pounds of muscle. And look better, feel better. More the opposite sex to be attracted to.

All of them and not all those things are necessarily the most important.

But it's like on all markers and cases improved. We'll use the example of our trainer occurring. I love using her as example because she's perfect for this. She's on our staff. She's an amazing coach.

And she took the big step of letting someone else totally take over her training and diet, which was Adam. She was, she came to you. What was she sitting at? What was she walking around at 18?

Seven. 17 percent. Yeah. All the time. Very lean.

Not a good lean. Or I should say it's too lean to walk around it. But this is what she was at. She comes to Adam. He reversed diets or she gets her calories from where to where.

We were at. She's at 1900 to 2000 calories. We're at 26 to 27. So look at almost thousand calories were diet. Dramaticly reduced for training volume.

She's not exercising. Yeah. She her strength went through the roof. Yeah. Where she's hitting PRs weekly.

Almost weekly. Yeah. Like big PRs almost weekly. Yeah. Squats, dead legs.

That was hip thrust. And her day movement. Energy is better. Every single person on staff is like, man, she looks amazing. She looks great.

Got her butt. Got wet and got a dexus cam. Gained only body fat. Her body fat percentage went from 17 percent to what? Yeah, 19.

Ninety. Still lean. Yeah. But she gained 2 percent body fat. Gained some weight on the scale.

Gained no muscle on the dexus. But she stronger feels better. More energy and looks better. Yeah. So that's an extreme example.

But better because she gained body fat. Yes. And her fitness improved. So she didn't compromise her fitness. Yeah.

Her fitness actually got better. That's an extreme example. But we need to communicate this because we're talking about that. So many of our listeners are. We have so many female listeners who are fit and they're working out.

And they're good. And they're consistent. Like, hey, I'm at, you know, 25 percent body fat. I want to get down to 20. What should I do?

And it's like, I could tell you what you can do.

“But the truth is, like, you're better off staying where you're at.”

And just keep improving your fitness and eating with some flexibility. Right. And we get guys like that too. I'm a 15 percent want to six pack. Bro, you get a six pack.

Yeah. You think you're going to feel so much happier. You're not. Well, it's not a performance advantage. You know, like, to be really lean.

No, it's just like, you know, whatever is healthy. And what that is for your body and what that consists of. And we have general ranges where we try to shoot. You know, where it's like, this is healthy. You know, and I feel like, you know, I'm adequate energy-wise.

I have that little bit of a buffer. But I mean, it kind of varies. But at the same time, if that's where you start. You perform the best when you're in that health zone. That's right.

And you stray out of that, you know, above below. To chase a look. And then it's, you know, you compromise in that. You know, it's a few people.

You, I mean, Justin always is going to add his performance point.

You're always going to go to the health direction. I always love driving home this. The look though, because that's what most people are going after. Of course are going after. That's what they're here for.

Like, I mean, what you guys are saying is so important. But the truth is so many people are chasing a look.

“And I think that's what I want to convey.”

So much is like, you at a higher body of average, you know, to the point of how you open this, like, you would look better, if you just add a muscle too. And a lot of times you can't do that when you're always trying to be at this low percent body, if we had a collar just recently.

And it's just like, you know, and she wants this like 20 to 22%, which is a total 5% to desire for a female.

You can be healthy in that range.

But I'm like, look at her going like, you know,

I bet if you stay the same body of average, which she was around 25 or 26 and just added five to 10 pounds of muscle, you would get the 22, 20 to 20% look. The look that you think you want to do. Yeah, the look that you think you want.

It has less to do with the percentage. It's that you're thinking about where you're at right now. Oh, I'm a little fluffy. If I were to lean some of that fat off, then I had this look. I will argue if you just gained some muscle to that same.

In fact, some fat can come with it too. By the way, you added 10 pounds on the scale and eight muscle and two fat. You would look, you would look better. You would look better. You would look the look that you think needs to be at 20, 20.

You know what's funny too about this, by the way. You know, when you're your guy, you're walking around at 10% body fat. Your face doesn't look as good as when you're at 14% body fat. This is especially true on a piss people off for women. You get down to the teens.

Your face does not look as good as when you're in the low to mid 20s. Body fat on your face, you gotta have some. Yeah.

And especially as you get older, especially as you get older,

where you start to look like you're more age.

“They're calling this an Olympic face, or you know what's happening with that?”

People are losing everything. Yeah. As they look old, because why? Well, because you need some body fat. And somebody fat is on your face.

It actually makes you look more youthful and healthier. And again, a lot of the messaging that we're getting are from people who their hormones are artificially propped up. So they could die it. They could do all extreme stuff.

Get their body fat lean and they're going to be great. The average person chases this number. You're going to feel like garbage. Your libido is going to be down. You're overstressed with your workouts.

You're over-focused on your diet. And to honest, you don't look as good. You might, you're a little bit of a distorted view on yourself. Not realizing you just don't look as good. And what's crazy about this, because I know I've done this before,

is you'll have friends at these people listening. Have had this happen. I guarantee it. Where they're getting really lean. And then their friends and family come up with it.

You don't look good. Yeah. But all they hear in their head is, yeah. Because I'm shredded. Yeah.

But it really does happen. And that's the thing. The irony of it. Everybody wants to look useful, right? You look older.

Yeah. You're too lean. You just look older. Your skin doesn't look as vibrant in hell. There's a saying.

You know, there's a saying.

“And I think it's in the fashion world in Italy.”

So, and it's not a great saying. But they say this to their models. They say face or ass. What they mean by that is you pick. Either you have a round mark.

You have a round mark. Either you can have, you know, you're going to sacrifice one of the other. So you get too lean. You're going to sacrifice your face or whatever. So if you have the butt, you have, I don't know.

Anyway, it's the saying that they say because they refer to getting too lean. How it affects how you start to look, whatever in your face. And you do. You look older. But this message needs to get out.

Because if you go through Instagram and you go on fitness. Yeah. Even if you go on wellness, which I, the term wellness has been so bastardized now. Wellness is just fitness. But now it's packaged a little different.

But I mean by that, it's all the wellness people now. They're still displaying this like overly lean body focus or whatever. It just now looks like that. You know, who also such a great example on our team. I loved it.

I've actually, I got to sit down with her and talk to her about her whole journey and her calories. It's about that. But I've seen her before and after. And that's Danny. Oh, yeah.

Like her physique. That's what she's built. Oh, yeah. She's built a total different physique than what so strong. So strong.

So strong. Yes. And I like to ask her what she can eat calorie wise today versus what did she come from a place where she was like super restricting. I think so.

Yeah. Yeah. And just just looks like a whole different person. Totally different person. She's so much more muscle on her body.

And I, and I, when I talked to one of her getting ready to do career and I asked her. If she wanted to join that. She's like, oh, not right now. I'm eating and doing this and that and like the fact that she can she can eat what she wants and have that kind of flexibility and still have a physique that's like that.

“You know, and I think so so many so many people women in particular.”

I feel like where my female clients get hung up on this. This looked that they remember having or seeing when they were at their leanest. And you know, some of them might have had their body fat percentage. And so they're either it's the scale or this body fat percentage.

And then, you know, I guess the point I'm trying to make is we always talk about like body fat percentage

kind of being this gold standard. It's better than weight. Yeah, it's better. But it's still good. It's still still can be very distorted, especially until.

Especially for women because women has it muscle hasn't been promoted so much for women as it has been made for a really long time. So this goes both ways. And they're also advertised from an image perspective. Much has the fashion industry.

It's a fashion, it's a fashion, it's the health, the wellness. Like everything geared towards women is so focused on how you look. Yeah. And it's coming from these really body dysmorphic people.

Unfortunately, the ones that tend to get the voices in our space.

You know, the best things you could do really the one of the best things you could do. This is both men and women, but especially women. Is a change or algorithm on your social media. Like consciously change it when you're going through. And you're seeing bodies projected to you.

Pictures of bodies and how they look and they're, you know, check. Click on the little whatever is a little of the three dots and say, I want to see less of this.

“And you have to do this every day because the algorithm's so smart that it'll revert back very quickly.”

So every day you just say less of this, I want less of this in my brain. Less of this in my brain. And you would be surprised at how positively. Very well. By the way, I know you actively do that.

I actively like the things that I want. Like I actually, I go, like every, it's like an exercise I do now where I will look at my explore page to see if it's in my goal.

Literally, my goal is always it to be like, well, all the things that I want that you actually want.

Yeah, yeah, that I want to be consuming that I'm into or whatever that I think is, you know, give healthier or better, right, for whatever reason. You, you actually go and click on it and then say show me less of this. Where do you see, where is that? So when you, when, when, so when you're scrolling.

Yeah, when something comes up, you can click on the picture. I think there's like the little dots. Yeah, the little dots. Yeah, and you can say less of this or don't show me this. And so it's like literally on the, like on it in my feed.

I have like, I'm an Instagram right now. Okay, here's perfect. I've done it on Facebook. I haven't done it. Yeah, so I've got your seeing this post request community out.

Yeah, so I've done it on X a lot because that's the one that I'll be on. And that one bro, they're algorithms fast on X. Oh my god, that's so quick dude. Yeah. You, you will look at one thing and then you get five more.

I have our time with X just because it's so raw sometimes too. Whoa. I forget that you're mostly on X right now. I'm trying to figure out how to do it.

There's a way to do it on all of them.

I mean, it's a good thing right now. I'm going through my thing right now. I've yet to see something I don't. Okay, here's. You can also do with ads by the way.

Oh, yeah, I do that all the time. Yeah, so okay, here. Okay, not interested. That's right. Okay.

So, so. Okay, here's why this is so suggest these posts anymore. Don't suggest posts with certain words. News all suggest posts and feet. Okay.

That's right. Now, the reason why this it's so important to do this post. This post made me feel uncomfortable. Yeah. So.

And I know what that's. That's a strong one. I think that's the strongest signal. Is that one right there? Yeah.

Yeah. Because I've done that.

“It's in its stronger because you have to like repeatedly say.”

Don't show me this. Don't show me this. So the algorithms are so sensitive that it picks up.

Micro fractions of a second longer that you hover.

Oh, it tracks your eyes. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're like scrolling through. Oh, no, that's.

So are you pause for. So you're. So you're your your your point. This is why I have to check back on my explore page is because. I only like these the things that I want for me.

But even if I. Get caught looking at something for a minute, even if I don't like it. It'll still start to it. It'll sort of still change my sport page and feed it back to me again. Yeah.

So that's why I was asking you what like how you do because the way I do it is like I get good. I just really liking all the stuff I want. But you don't have to say don't. Yeah, because if you don't, it knows that you pause for a second. It's bad.

It'll it'll feed again. It's it's it's a self adjusting in the moment on the fly. Brilliant. Like on their point. You know, it's brilliant.

Yeah. And it's in you. That means. Yes. I'll give you guys an exact pack.

You're in pulse of nature. I told the story already, but I saw it. So my wife will be okay with it, but I'll tell it again. So there was there was a period we're going somewhere. And I was like, oh, maybe I should get some like.

It's like it's actually laundry for my wife right. So I went and looked up like. Yeah. I told you guys. And so as soon as I did that.

So it was emails. So hold on. So as soon as I did that, when I would go on social media, you know, the little ads that post underneath. Yeah. Little ads would post for laundry.

But they're like, bro, it's like, yeah, yeah. It's like a half naked chick like, right? And I don't want to see that because it's soft porn for sure. I just don't want to see that. I've had issues with like, you know, looking at stuff in the past.

And so I had just cautious and now look away. And so I had to go, don't show me this. This is offensive. I had to be like four times before it stopped. Like I kept getting ads.

And I have to keep doing it. I've bought a lot of it. I can't get away. But like there's probably at least six different brands that I've bought from. And so they all, they've all got me.

You know what I'm saying? They do. They find me. Did we're about to try and subscribe from those emails? Did we get what those emails?

I can't do this. But I tell you what, just for people listening.

“Like if you, you have to consciously do this every day.”

But change your algorithm because it shifts. How you view the world. But more importantly, how you view yourself. Are you guys, are you guys noticing with your teens? Um, any news, any like new like behaviorals around it.

Like them organically. Not what you're, you're restricting or telling. Do you think that you're seeing an increase in. They're like addiction to it or are they naturally certain?

Because one of the things that we predicted.

Like generally.

Yeah, that like this generation coming up is is becoming.

It's more common that they're like. I put I put really strong restrictions on my daughter. So she only gets 10 minutes of Instagram. She has no TikTok. Do you find yourself.

Uh, so where I guess I'm getting out with you guys. Because you guys have both of teens that were like a part of the height of this stuff.

“Is it always a battle? Is it something that's getting easier?”

Is it getting harder? Like what? What's it like managing it for the kids? It's getting easier. It's getting easier. He's got a lot more mature with it than he was.

It was a battle, dude, for a while. Yeah, I didn't want to give a phone. Oh, well, you know, that was like really hard for me to reconcile. That was a mistake. I mean, because I gave my, my daughter has a phone.

Yeah. Like my younger kids. They're not getting one. They're not getting one till it's absolutely necessary. Which I don't know. What, what, what, what were the two eight.

How early did you do your daughter? How early did you do your boys?

Um, so let's forget about my daughter.

Eighth grade? Eighth grade? I think it was eight grade. Yeah, each one was 13. It might have been eight.

Is that when you're 13? Just even seven or something. Yeah, yeah. It might have been seventh grade from you. Yeah, because I think it was around the same age.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. So I mean, yeah, there's this thing. Ideally, in the ideal situation, you know,

if you can, you know, weight, that would be, you know, I, I get what, I mean, it's real easy sitting from my seat, right? To say, but I understand, uh, and I can only imagine how difficult it was for the two of you at the timing of it is that, because I already see it with my son's age, uh, parents that like,

like, like, his best friend and we're really close to them. Like they don't, they restrict tech from his kid or their kid. Their kid doesn't get an iPad, like ours. And so it makes it easy when the best friend doesn't, too.

I was just going to say, that's the easier way to do it. If you, if you have cultivate the friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

“I mean, that's what Katrina and I have talked about and planned to do.”

And it seems, uh, and I don't want to say it's easy, but it's probably easier for me than it was for you guys with nobody was really painted with everybody thought I was, everyone had. I mean, your guys' generation, or the meaning your guys' kids generation, you were probably told, if they don't learn tech,

they're going to be behind. If they don't, they don't learn to use those, that computers are outliers by waiting for sure. Yeah. He had to wait.

Right. You know a couple of years the catch up to his friends' text message. You know what helps too a lot. I'm sure Justin could speak to this. When they're busy doing things like sports and stuff.

That's when they're done when they have nothing to do. Uh, I preach that from, you know, the mountains to that. I'd have to keep him busy. You know, it honestly, I don't hands, devils were it for real. Whoever, like, said that, like, that is true.

Yeah, it's said a long time ago, too. That's crazy. He said that. Find out that. I don't know if he said that.

But full loss of stuff. And I mean, it's even with my oldest. It's like, you know, he'll do a good job with tech. But then, you know, he's roaming around town and all these things. And it's like he's getting bored.

And it's like, they, they find their way into mischief. Just like, you know, and it's like, now I'm battling that. And it's like, it's just one of those things. But you prefer that, right?

“Because my buddy Mike, his kids, similar age, right?”

And we talked a lot about this for the last couple of years and everything. And he's really active dad. He's in the car.

He's always trying to get his boy to come to the car.

Vince, kids, not really into it. You'd rather stay at home on the computer or the phone or on the game. So at that. And he recently has got into those electric dirt bike. Yes.

And he's like, yep, hardcore to it. But he's like, he rolls around with a group of kids. They're like, getting in trouble. And they don't just cop the cops of busting them because they're, like, They go, yeah, they go past where they're supposed to be far than we ever did in your kids.

And so he's so perfect. Yes. And they go like, he miles an hour, bro. Yeah. And so he's like, so conflicted because he's like, I,

I've, for the last five years, I've been fighting to get him out of the house. Now he's out of the house. But then he's getting to mischief. And I'm like, yes. You know, I, I think I'd rather have that.

I'd rather have him learn the consequences of the cop getting you in trouble for riding that bike where you're not supposed to. And then the sitting plugged into a game all day. Can we just say, like, straight up like, there's always something. Raising, raising kids, especially teenagers is hard.

It is, it's hard. It's anxiety riddled. They, they, they want the independence of an adult, but they have the mind of a child. And so, and they're rebellious.

But it's still, I got this. Yeah. You don't even know what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. How do you know nothing? You really don't know nothing. You really don't know nothing.

[laughs] I love to argue with two majors. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how early that is. How ingrained that is.

Because I, my sense that to my wife last night. Mom, I got this. Yeah. It was over something, you know, whatever. But it's like the fact that they, they, they already start doing that.

It's like, you know, it's like your old, I'm saying, like, I got this. It's so hard, too, because when you want, you want to tell them.

Like, no, no, this is, this is how it works.

Yeah. It's hard and even more. Yeah.

And you got to let them work through it, too.

So it's like, I've had to really check myself a lot of times with that. Because I, I will, like, you know, try to squash his energy with that thing. Well, you don't know what you're doing. I'm like, let them figure it out. Let them work through it.

Let them stumble. My favorite is that you have every, when your kids try to, like, tell you, like,

figure out how much you would cost to, like, live on their own.

They have no idea. Oh, well, if I knew this much money. Uh-huh. You, you, you, you would be able to pay rent in a room. >> I know. >> That's why I really liked what book was that I read. I've recommended it on the podcast before, but it talked about the four stages of race. I got to read that one of the coaching phase. That's good coach. You tell me the game changer for me. >> Yes. >> You know that one of my daughter. >> You're a coach. You're not daddy mode anymore. You're not telling them what to do all the time.

It's like, hey, you do this and this. You show the play. >> That's right. You show the play. I'm going to let you figure it out. >> Yeah. >> You encourage why they should run the play this way. And then when they veer off and do their own thing and they get tackled behind the line or they get hurt or they think it happens. That's why dad told you this is the play. >> It's been such a game changer for me and my daughter because I actually had to verbalize it to a like, listen, we're moving in new phase. It's the coaching phase and there was a period there where it was like,

“there was actually working because she's, but then I'd sit down with her to look. I'm not going to tell you you have to do this. Remember, we're in the coaching phase,”

but you need to hear me because if you feel like you're not hearing me, and if you feel like you're just shutting me down, then we're going to go backwards and we're going to go the other phase where I force you.

>> Yeah. >> And it's actually improved or relationship. >> I think it's a great idea to communicate even to the kid, like letting them know that. I think it's a great, I didn't know you did that.

I think that's a great, a great idea to be like, hey, I recognize that we're transitioning from me being daddy, tell you what to do all the time to you want to learn things, do things on your own, and I can appreciate that love that. >> The language is more like, might I make a suggestion? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's like my new version. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, or let me tell you how that play out for that. I've definitely gave him a lot bigger area that he can venture out and have adventures and do his thing, but it's at home.

>> I mean, and we're also, that's because you track your kid. >> You're also talking, if you're also track your kids, nobody knew where we were going. >> I know. >> My wife does, and then I find out. I'm like, oh, what's the other way over there? >> That's the part of trips we all is like how much we, because he and that my buddy Mike's day have air tag on his kid too, so he can see when he's going beyond where he was told to, so that's what's like this, now you're challenged with this. >> Yeah, do I say something? >> Do I say something? He's not, you know.

>> It only affects me because I think it's dark, and I have to go pick up on my truck, because if you take the bike and put it the truck in his friend, and it becomes like, like, look, you brought me into this, the whole idea is for you to have that freedom and independence, you come back, you do the right thing, and you get to do it again.

“Now, you know, we're not going to have that much freedom, and you have to earn it back.”

>> Yeah, yeah. >> I think about some of the stuff I do when I was a teenager, like when we would write off, and now we'd have electric bikes, when we had a regular bike, but we would take off, and we would do things, man, I look back. >> How do you guys both make peace with this also, because you also know that, so imagine you have the kid who's the opposite, who listens to everything, doesn't go beyond it, because I think about this from my perspective. Because my kid seems to be different with a lot of the stuff, and my fear is I also know that those traits that you guys both have, and you see in your kids are also things that made you great entrepreneurs and successful life.

Because you are willing to stretch the boundaries, to think outside the box, to not just fall in line with the other people say, like, there's some characteristics that come with that order. >> And that atom, when you look at the data on it, because that's definitely happened, but you know, the data shows more often than not, is that they're going to go through a rebellious phase. >> Yeah. >> And so if they don't do this exchange, then they do it in college. >> Yes. >> Or, or, I'd rather it be now. >> Or, I have a lot of friends like this, I have friends like this who are doctors, okay? So they were very regimented, very disciplined, call it, and they wow out when they finally are done with medical school.

>> Right now, I'm going to go through my rebellious phase of 30.

“>> I mean, that's a recipe for Peter Pan syndrome, right?”

>> Yeah. >> I mean, that's like, how that ends up happening to a lot of probably that's been. >> Yeah, that's been. >> Now, how to, so we're going that perspective from the husband, right? I imagine this is even more difficult for the wives, to let go and let go. >> Oh, no. >> And like, a lot of the risky stuff, especially, too, and like, it's funny, because I love it, because he's back into climbing on things and, you know, like, he'll go on these bridges and things that are super sketchy, and I'm like, you know, like, and Courtney will find out about it.

But, you know, I'm just glad that he's adventuring and like being in the world and doing these things.

I'm like, you know, I'm okay with some of these risks, he's taken, you know, ...

>> So that would prefer that.

>> That's an example of where you can be more relaxed, and she's probably more freaked out. >> Yeah. >> Where's the flip of that? Where is she more relaxed, and you're a little more, and she's like, hey, do calm down.

“He'll be like, is there an example that, or she almost always that way, and you're almost always one who's more like that?”

And same thing for you, so like, is there a push and pull for you guys where there's certain things. She's more relaxed about, and you're more like over, and she's like, hey, chill out, let him figure it out, and, or is it, is it all things? >> Obviously, the risk thing I think of an example. >> I'll guess, I bet it's probably when you show a lot of anger, then she knows she needs to calm down. >> I'll bet that's probably when it kicks in.

>> Oh, when I'm angry with him? >> Yeah, when you start to lose it, she's probably like, well, okay. >> Oh, yeah, she, yeah, yeah, yeah, she calls me down with when it's like, I, I use that is something to like capture attention and like snap out of like his state. >> Like, so I don't, I don't raise my voice unless it's like very intentional, but yeah, I do do that sometimes. I do do that sometimes, it freaks your eyes, scares her, you know, sometimes because I'll let that out just to let everybody know I got teeth, you know, it's like, you know, there's constant.

>> There's, there's value to that, though, too.

I think a great way to communicate that is to, when you do it intentional and you're detached from the emotion, it's a very powerful tool.

>> Right. >> When you do it in a response emotionally is when it's bad. >> Right. >> So that's, for move the reaction of it. >> But that's hard, of course.

>> That's hard. >> Yeah.

“>> I think that, I was trying to think of, like an example with like girls in relationship and all that and I'm more like, you know, don't worry about all that.”

Like, you know, that'll come down the road and like, I'm not trying to like make it happen where he's going to hang out and go in a date or like, and she's all like, yeah. >> How's, how's it going with so and so? >> You know, she gets all into the relationship side of it and I'm just like, did stop asking about that, you know. >> Yeah, he'll figure it out. >> Yeah, this is the distraction.

>> You'll need this right now, son. >> Yeah. >> That's like my energy. >> I think you're right. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The right one to the back of the thought. >> The whole distraction when you're kid. >> Totally.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, she likes, she loves the idea of him, you know, have a relationship with her girl and I appreciate that because he's the girl that's often seen. >> I'm sure then Mama Bear is going to come. >> Now are you the opposite of your eyes? >> So my sister-in-law and brother-in-law are the opposite here.

My sister-in-law is the one who lets the kids climb the trees, fall, bruise themselves, whatever. And my brother-in-law is more like boundaries over protective of that way. >> You seem like that to me. >> I mean, it really does depend on the situation. I would say, we have a different dynamic with the little ones that we do with my daughter because my daughter's with us every other week.

She has her mom, who's also involved. So Jessica has a parental role with my daughter, but she's also got this, which I think it's an advantage. She kind of gets to be the cool stepmom, you know, where she can kind of step in and have those conversations. >> Right, she almost felt naturally into the coaching phase versus you had to transition from being daddy, daddy, and then also just being divorced, having her half the time. That causes its own challenges.

You know, you want to discipline, but I see you. I didn't see you last week. >> Right. >> You're here, a window. >> Yeah, and what do we do? >> Well, how often does that happen where, and what's more like where, because you have that, since that's an interesting dynamic for me to ask about.

Is that, you know, you're wanting your daughter to explore something or you're wanting her to fall on her own or allow it. And then your ex is like, no, like, how often does that happen where you don't, you guys don't agree with, like, either restricting, restricting something or boundaries or like. >> Oh, I got to be careful when I say here because I don't want to put too much out there, but I would say, like right now we're looking at colleges, even though she's not, you know, she's not going to be going for a couple years.

But I'm much more interested in the culture of the college than I am, how cool it is or how nice it is or even what she thinks she wants.

“I'm interested more in the culture because I think it's super influential on a kid, whereas, you know, my ex life is more like where she want to go.”

>> Yeah, where she want to go, and this is a great college, maybe that's the one she wanted to go to, that shouldn't go to, maybe there's a piece of that. But so there's, so there's, so there's some disagreement. >> That's an interesting one, really. >> I feel like you lose that no matter what. >> No, yeah. >> No, because I pay. [ Laughter ]

>> Boom. >> That's a great, that's a great responsibility. >> [ Laughter ]

>> My first edition was like, oh, bro, you're definitely, you lose that.

>> That's true. >> Actually, I write that in the chat. [ Laughter ] >> I don't, I don't want to pull it, but if I had to do that.

>> Boy, should you go to, oh, go to that one?

>> I don't care, should you go to that one? >> Oh, my God, what a good boy, oh, my God. >> You think you're going to win that one, bro? >> I lose it that one, but I write the chat. [ Laughter ]

>> Ultimately, that's a chip club.

>> Oh, well, that out, you know, don't get me wrong. >> Yeah. >> It's a little while from now, so maybe things will change, but that's funny. >> Yeah. >> We're going to go look at some, in fact, in a month, I won't say where they are because you've had a privacy.

But we'll be looking at it. >> It is the time though, because yeah, my oldest is same age. And he's interested in looking at colleges right now. >> Yeah, but you know, there's a culture on campuses and different colleges have different -- >> Well, that's school in general. >> Totally.

>> Yeah, that's school in general. >> But I have this argument. >> I was talking to friends about this and I heard this argument. >> Oh, there's bad, cold kids and good kids in every college. >> Yeah, I know, that's true.

>> Okay, I get it. You can go to the best culture that's still running to the wrong crowd. But the odds are better. >> Right. >> Like, it's not forget, like, the odds are better.

“>> I think as a dad, I'd have a hard time with.”

Is if my daughter or son is wanting to go to school or like their three best friends or two or three best friends are going, and they want to go to that school, even though it may not be my favorite school for them to go to, but it's where their best friends are going. >> And then they went to high school with and grew up.

>> That makes a difference. >> 'Cause that would make a heart -- versus she's going off to somewhere where she's starting all over no matter what, and then she really wants to go to this place and I'm like, I don't know about Chico State or Arizona State or whatever the state is. >> I think I know that you go to this school.

>> I think that's good for them though, you know. >> That's also that. >> I think, 'cause I mean, for me, it was transformative. It was like, I think we don't have that right of passage anymore. And I think if we can look at colleges like maybe an extension of that,

it's like, you got to go off and reinvent yourself. >> There's so much potential value in that. >> I mean, that's not good. >> Yeah, but I also think that has a lot to do with probably you both evaluating their friends currently too though.

>> Of course. >> I mean, yeah. >> I mean, I mean, I mean, they'll still reconnect. I don't know, it depends. >> Of course, my best friend and I go all the way back to fourth grade.

>> Yeah. >> And so in my other one, all the way back to ninth grade. So of course, you can. >> Yeah. >> So I'm definitely somebody who believes that we can, and I wouldn't

different states, all the things, right?

“So, but I think that if I liked my sons, you know,”

core group of buddies and they're like, hey, we're all going to Santa Barbara. >> Yeah. >> You know, college after high school. And he really wants you to pull.

>> Yeah. >> I would have a really hard time. And let's say it's not my favorite. >> You know, there's another piece here that we're not even

talking about, which I've never, I kind of had this opinion before,

but now even more so, especially in two years or four years. Is it necessary? >> Oh, yeah. No, I definitely didn't. >> Is it necessary to go to college?

>> Yeah. >> This is what I fight with core. >> Oh, yeah, because the ROI-- >> And a lot of cases is not worth it. A lot of situations, the degree you get is not worth the cost that you

spent, you would have been better off maybe not going. >> Yeah. >> And there's a lot of things now. You can go learn in college that I'm looking at AI, and I'm like, bro, by the time you graduate.

>> You know, be interested. >> We should have better shift the other options. >> Totally right.

“>> Well, that's how they say, Justin, it's going to be interesting how you”

tackle that work. >> It's a weird time. Especially when your kid tells you that they want to go do and study. >> Right. >> Right, because they give you some, that matters big time.

>> Yeah, I feel like that totally matters. >> Yeah. >> It's like that. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, get them in a mentorship, internship somewhere.

>> Totally. >> It's a direct placement, you know, for something that they wanted to do. I think it's such a better path. >> Yeah, I've been talking to my daughter about like, businesses that require people.

So, like, do you like, because she kind of wants to work with people? So, I'm like, okay, those, those, there's certain careers that

people will probably always need that, like, occupational therapy,

physical therapy, maybe even, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy where you're working with a person. And I'm sure regulations will prevent AI from doing that kind of stuff. Like, that, that I could see that potential. But, like, probably just just six years ago, going to school for coding was like, this is the best thing you could do.

>> Yeah. >> Now, they're like, don't do that. >> Do you know that I'm watching interviews. I've seen a couple interviews or clips of people in tech who run these big companies. And they're like, oh, our, our coders haven't written a single line of code since December.

>> What? >> I imagine one of the most popular degrees in the next two to four years is going to be AI degrees. >> Degrees in, like, the ability to program run and, and-- >> That's not going to be a real thing.

>> That's going to be a real thing. >> Yeah. >> That's not going to be a real thing. >> Yeah. >> That's not going to be a real thing.

>> Yeah. >> That's not going to be a real thing. >> Yeah. >> That's not going to be a real thing. >> So what, yeah, but the ones that studied are going to be on the front line of knowing how that's going to do it.

>> If you do that or if you love it, why don't you go learn it? >> Yeah, but then the CEO just will do everything. >> Yeah, why don't you just go learn it? Go learn it on your own right now. Because whenever they come out with another version, which is like, you know,

however, months later, so it's like-- >> Yeah, that's easy for 40 something you're all of us to say. Like, well, I'm talking to it. Tell that to a 17 year old. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Go teach yourself this. >> Yeah, good luck. >> Well, I mean if three to it. >> That's part of the big benefit, too, is like, I mean, I remember when I was 17.

Like, I didn't know for sure what I had ideas.

I mean, I went through, I'm going to be an architect. I'm going to be a lawyer. I'm going to be a physical therapist. I went through a lot of different things I was going to be. Or what I wasn't sure.

I almost went almost enlisted. So it's like, yeah. >> You know, part of the, part of the, the good part of the college, I'd say, still is that ability to still try different classes, meet different people with different opinions and views. And baby backgrounds with different dads and moms that have jobs.

And it's like, and you're just being exposed to other things that maybe you and

your little bubble would have never thought you would.

>> I wonder if the future of being enlisted is, they're going to look at your resume.

“And you're going to be like, oh, how could you do the level?”

>> Yes, yes, yes. >> 100%. >> Yeah. >> You can be like, oh, you're level 56 in college. >> Yeah, you're in.

>> You're in. >> Yeah, you're in. >> That's going to be so wild. >> Yeah, I think about it. >> All right, let's change this change directions here real quick.

Because I was looking up the, the toxins that they find informed fish versus wild call. >> Wow. >> It's pretty good. >> It's so bad that they changed the fish changes sex in there. >> Sometimes.

>> Yes, sometimes. >> So like higher and heavy metals. >> That's the size. >> I really win though, right? >> So what?

>> You can't really win because even the ocean, like deep sea fish. >> They have to find better ways to farm fish, I think. >> And you're right, like it's the one place we get meat in the wild. >> Yeah.

>> Like we don't do that anymore anywhere else.

>> We don't hunt cows. >> You put a screen shot take us. >> I know that they do this with farm fish. >> You know, they die the fish. >> Yeah.

>> So it will look like you have the meat. >> Oh yeah, yeah. >> Like how different does it look if they didn't bite? >> What's crazy to me is there's a dramatic difference in the taste of just farm salmon versus wild salmon.

>> Yeah. >> If you put them next to it and I ate each one and I know any better, I'd be like this different fish. >> And it's like the fat content. >> It's the fat content, the fat, like the fat amount, the fatty acid profile.

>> Yeah, the profile. >> It's all so different. >> Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> That's not saying it's unhealthy, but it's definitely better to go

farm, salmon or not inject it with that.

“>> They are fed pigments, that's what it is.”

>> They're fed pigments. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> But while some often synthetic pigments are added to feed. >> Same difference.

>> You didn't read number 40. >> Yeah. >> One of the unknown things that butcher box does. Because we talk all the grass fed meat all the time, the heritage pork. They have a great selection of farm.

>> I still got a smoke mine. I've got farm fish wild. >> I'm sorry, wild fish. Sorry, thanks to you. >> Yeah.

>> The great selection of wild caught. >> Yeah. >> They don't sell farm. >> I have some of my freezer, I know that I got from them. I've been telling them.

>> I want to smoke it. >> Yeah, I haven't. I haven't personally smoked salmon. >> When you smoke salmon, you're not cooking it. >> Right?

>> Or are you? >> It is. >> It's a smoke with smoke. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's a slow.

I mean, in my opinion, it's the-- >> I rarely ever use my gas grill ever. >> Almost. >> Only if I'm going to hurry to cook meat for something, or maybe because I'm smoking on one, and I'm using it for something else,

and I'm using the gas grill grill for it. But slow cooking meat over smoke is such a-- >> You know what? Doug taught me in regards to salmon. Years ago, we went to an advertising.

I don't know what it was. Convention or something like that. A course done in San Diego. And he was ordering salmon.

I never heard somebody say this before.

You order steak. What do you-- what do they ask you the temperature, right? Medium, right? >> Yeah. >> He'd be like, "I'll have a salmon, and I want a medium,

I'm like, you can see that with fish." And so I started doing that. Oh, my gosh, it's way better. >> Yeah. >> Oh, my gosh, it's way better.

>> Yeah, they don't even ask you. They just cook it. >> Bro, salmon? >> Yeah. >> Because salmon cooked.

>> Medium is delicious. >> 'Cause overcooked fish is dry. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can eat fish raw. I mean, if you like salmon sashimi, then why not have it on the almost the raw side,

and you're probably better off. I can't do it.

“That's why I want to smoke it, because I like smoke it too.”

I'm kind of a roar. >> Yeah. >> Before we got on air, I didn't even know it today. It was butcher box. It would duck and eye.

We're talking about salmon, asking if you can get it like that. I'll do it. I'll do it. And then they're all report back. My goal is to do it before the next.

>> I got to show you guys. I'm going to share this with you, Doug, so you can put it up on the screen. Do you guys want to see the cool it? This is not AI.

This is a real. It's confirmed. It's a Russian wrestler. He's like, I can't even say his name. Forget it.

I'm not going to say his name. >> Doug put up on the screen. This move that he did with three seconds left in the match. So it's three seconds left. He's down.

>> Okay. >> And he does this move, bro. And by the way, I will argue this all day long that I think overall general athleticism. I think wrestlers, high level wrestlers. >> Yeah.

>> Are the best displays. >> I can't disagree.

>> Well, we see that in UFC still with all these mixed martial arts.

The guys that have the high pedigrees in wrestling almost always are just animals.

Look up. >> Click on that.

“And then you look like you're from a human.”

>> Watch this. >> This is with three seconds left. >> Watch where he does. >> Ready? >> Jump.

>> Oh, what? >> Boom. >> We've swept over. >> He jumps. >> Over here.

>> Get them in a body lock. And then that's sick. >> That's sick. >> I've never seen that before. >> Yeah.

>> Was that just like a spontaneous idea. And he just jumped. >> Well, that's a real move. >> That's a real move. >> That's a real move.

>> I've never seen any of that. >> If you go over the top of someone, jump over. So you bring your feet over. >> Yeah. >> Then you twist and do this kind of like.

But he did it full of jump. So he wasn't like on top of the guy and then he did it from a jump.

>> What a sick to catch it.

>> Like the sick one, Barclays. >> Swiss your body. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Right.

>> Yeah. >> Let us sick side twoplexes. >> Yeah. >> Did you just dab pop up in your feet? >> There's only viral.

>> My algorithm often has times we'll have wrestling in judo on their catalogue. >> Yeah. >> That's a cool move right there. >> Yeah. >> I got some studies of pull up on Monukora Honey.

Some really cool studies on Monukora Honey, which is kind of well. So I'm going to go through some of these healing honey. >> This is called that. >> Bro. >> I want to try it on a cut.

>> Dude. >> It's crazy. >> I do. >> Man, you put it on post surgical wounds. And you get your heel faster.

It's short and healing times for burns and surgical wounds. So if you have a burn, put Monukora Honey on it. Put a bandit over it'll heel faster. >> It's good. >> It's good.

>> It's good. >> It's good. >> It's good. >> It's also good for gingivitis. >> Yeah.

>> Dude. >> So if you have like -- >> It's in flame gums or water. >> You could. >> I know, because of the sugar.

>> Yeah, it's the MGO.

“And I think it's called, is it MGO that's in there?”

>> That is anti-microbial. >> I don't know, because I have caps. But sometimes I get like bloody gums. >> Yeah. >> That's good.

>> That's good. You're just greedy. >> Yeah. >> Because every heart did. >> Eat rocks.

Did you guys know that Honey was more effective than over the counter cough suppressants for kids? >> No way. >> Yeah. >> It was a 2010 study because it codes the throat.

>> No. It actually has a comor effective in the cough syrup for kids. >> So they have stronger cough stuff for adults. But there are compounds in Honey that actually affect the part of the brain that causes the cough reflex. >> Oh, I see, okay.

So it calms it down. >> It actually reduces the cough reflex. >> Interesting. >> What is the prescription just one tea spoon of Honey? >> Yeah.

>> And a couple times. >> The next time Max gets a cough. >> It tastes good. >> I know. I'm going to try that versus giving some cough syrup.

>> Put it like lemon tea. >> Just let him take it straight off the spoon. >> Oh, yeah. >> I mean, it's not like it. It tastes good.

>> It tastes good.

“>> You don't get to hide anything like that.”

>> Yeah. >> It's also good for H.P.Lory. So if you have H.P.Lory issues in the gut or gut issues that do the inflammation. Consuming it is good for that. >> I made it.

>> I made it. >> I made it. >> I made it. >> I made it. >> I made it.

>> We just went through colds in our household. Like what is a couple weeks ago when we were all talking on the show. >> Yeah, I love it. >> It's whiskey. >> That's the first time.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And like fresh squeezed lime, whiskey, and then water, and then the honey. >> Okay. >> And then you could actually put a little bit I did twice.

>> And then I put a bit of a stick in there. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> We need to give the kids some handcuffs. >> I do.

>> I have actually never shot the whiskey.

>> So only because recently, like alcohol has been a part of my life right since we've been doing this. I've never done that. I've never made a hot potty when I don't feel good. I've never thought I would want alcohol when I was in failure.

And I'm like, you know, I'm going to make myself one. I knew I had the monarchy or honey. So like I'll use that. I had a lemon tree. So I did a fresh squeezed lemon.

It was like. >> It was like, oh my God. I feel this feels so good. >> Yeah, all the ingredients in it. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Besides, it's going to be able to go to move for me. The next time I have to go. >> I'm going to have to do that. >> I'm going to have before you feel better.

>> I mean, I had to. >> Yeah, I do. >> I'm going to make a pretty stiff, you know what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> And the cinnamon stick is, if you, if you, like, I made the first one with no

cinnamon, just water. And then I made another one where I did a cinnamon stick. And then I did another time with apple cider, which has kind of a cinnamon flavor to instead of the water. >> Okay.

>> So if someone doesn't can't handle the straight whiskey water. >> It's more like a hot cider. >> Well, like, if, like, if you work. >> Yeah. >> I think it's an expensive amount.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. >> I wanted to hear your money and happiness. >> Oh, I'll bring it up again. >> Because I saw you posting your story. And I wanted to argue with you.

>> Yeah, no, no. So, so, no, this is, there's data. There's a lot of data around this. >> Yeah. >> There's a lot of data.

We've seen this before.

>> Yeah.

>> So, they've done a lot of studies on money and happiness.

And the reason why they did these studies is when people, besides the necessities, because you need money for things that are necessary. And it's certain amount to feel secure, right? So above and beyond that, people still oftentimes desire more money. I want to make more money.

“And, you know, when you boil it down and you ask people, like, why do you want more money?”

It all boils down to, I think it'll make me happier. Now, it might start out by saying, well, I want to bigger house or I want a new car. I want to go on this vacation. But then you keep asking why? Well, why, why, why?

It's because, well, it'll make me happier. So, they've done a lot, actually, lots of studies on this. On, what's the best ROI on money for happiness? So, what's the best use of this extra money, where you're going to get the most happiness in return, okay?

>> So, you're the way. >> And so, well, yeah, so you can. >> Thanks for giving it away. >> Yeah, no problem. >> End of the story.

[ Laughter ] So, they've tested it with the worst is the buy things. That's the worst. So, buying something, you get a spike in happiness, but then you can't repeat that.

So, if you buy the same thing again, there's no effect. And then the happiness wears off quickly and then a flat line. So, you buy a new purse, you buy cool shoes or whatever. And for the most part, generally, what we see in the data is you get the spike, and it drops down quickly and then nothing else.

And then if you repeat it again, it's like a drug. You're just getting no effect, right? Get the same exact purse again, there's no spike in happiness.

Then the second, which is better, is experiences.

So, this is where you spend on like a vacation, because you create memories as you go. >> Yes, and so you see a longer happiness spike. And then when you think about that, depending on what happened, the more meaningful the experience, the better the reoccurring happiness from thinking about it.

Nonetheless, you still get this diminishing return over time. So, I keep thinking about it unless it was profound experience. When I met my wife, or this is when I had my child or something like that, you get this diminishing return, and you still get this kind of like a drug. Like your body gets used to it.

And so, if I think about that vacation 20 years later, unless it was this profound thing, I really don't get this happiness again. And then the last one, which was wild, is now there's some parameters around it. But the last one is, if you use your money in a way where you voluntarily give it to someone to help them. And if you really want to maximize this according to the data, you see the outcome.

So, like you have a friend who's struggling, evicted from their house, or their sick, and they need medical bills, and then you're able to step in and help them. And then you see it passively, but you're like following it all the time. Yeah, then you get this high spike in happiness that lasts a long time.

And then with these studies, as long as they follow the people. So, however long the study is, every time they recall that event, they get a similar spike in happiness with no drug.

“So, to, hey, remember that time, we, you know, help that, you know,”

our friend in that situation, or hey, remember when we donated to those, to help feed the poor, or we did that mission trip, they get the same spike. And so, if your ROI, if your interest in is happiness, the best ROI based on the data is to give it away, which I think is really, really interesting.

So, I, I knew where you were going to go with it. That's why I wanted you to talk about it, because I thought a lot about this. And I think independent of each of those things that make sense logically, but I also think that there's a way that all three of those can be fed. Give it an example.

I'll give it an example. Meaning like a materialistic thing that gives the other two. So, I'll give you an example. An example that would be, you know, Katrina and I could have spent the rest of our lives in a, you know,

a little condo that her me max grew up in, and it said, I bought a house, right? And this house, I designed it in a way, and I bought it a certain way.

And one of the most amazing parts about it is that it fits all of Katrina's family in it.

Yeah. And we, I mean, we've thrown at least 10 or 15 parties in less than a year. Yeah. So like once a month practically, where I host 30, 40, 50 of my family. Yeah, totally.

One of my favorite things. So it's like, it is a materialistic thing, right? Yeah, but that's not what's giving you the happiness. Right. So it's enabling the thing that makes sense.

Right.

“So like, I think, like, comparing those three cycles, like,”

I would say my shoes falls in that category. Sure. Once you buy one, then you're on the next one as a whatever. And it's like, only serves me, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, very, but there's things like, and then I would even make that argument, like,

my buddy and I, who's a, who's a card not, like, who's he's been in a cards for a long time, longer, even longer than I have. And we were having lunch one day after a drive, and these, these kids, there's two special

These kids came up, talking to us and they pulled out and they were all they'...

And, you know, we both let them get in and out of the cards, so with that.

“And him and I were, make having this conversation that that's one of my favorite parts about that.”

Right. Like, the initial enjoyment of the purchase and the drive of it, once you've done all the cool things in it, but actually one of the gift that keeps giving about it is being able to share that experience to someone

is like, I've never sat in it or driven in one of these.

And so, I don't think it's as simple as this, like, you can't get any of these other benefits from material things. What they call it is, uh, because there's a term for it. It's like, if it, uh, if there's a social component, that's not the term that they use. So, like an example would be like a guy who is pursuing, growing his business, because he wants to make more money.

But he uses that money to, I don't know, I'll use an extreme example, build orphanages. Right. Now he's got incredible happiness from building his business. Right. So, yeah, I think you could tie lots of, like, lots of different things.

It's why I sit with the experience. I think it depends what happened to the experience. Like, oh man, I went on this trip with my wife, and at the time we were dating. And this is when I proposed to her. So then, you know, you remember that.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's true. But generally speaking, I, and I know this because, uh, or I think this is people believe this. Maybe, maybe not conscious about subconsciously, maybe even sometimes consciously.

Because, uh, companies advertise to us what, what gives them profit, which is the bifings. Yeah. And the way that they sell it to us is they don't sell us the thing. They sell us the dream of what the thing provides.

Yeah. That's what's happening is freedom, status.

You know, it's never like the purse.

It's like the purse, but the people see it. Now you feel like you're more important.

“Well, remember that's, I remember I, I've shared with you before on the podcast.”

The, uh, the exercise that I do with myself before I make a purchase. Like, there's, there's like boundaries. Yeah. You wait like 24 hours before I, that's all. I won't, I won't, I won't.

Then the next question is, is this something that I feel like I got to show to everybody else? Or is this something for me? Like, right. I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place.

I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place.

I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place. I have a lot of people who are in the same place.

I have a lot of people who are in the same place.

“I have a lot of people who are in the same place.”

I was probably somebody who leaned on that. I had to learn that lesson. Maybe a little bit before 30 because I was doing things like the stuff that I have done before.

For families and things like that.

I got to feel that. That was a big.

“By the way, I think for anybody that is such a great exercise.”

If you have never done something like that, regardless of what level you are.

You don't have to be at a super level. I would argue because even when I did that way back when I was in a major financial status to where I had lots of extra money to go. It felt really good knowing that I didn't and actually still did that. Being able to draw back on that memory of doing something for families like that.

I could still think about that and get that spike. A decade and a half, two decades later or whatever. That helps pull that back in a little bit. Then just becoming aware of as you stack up some of those material things. My sneakers are good example.

I'm very aware of the ridiculousness of that, right? It doesn't give it. Nobody else is getting enjoyment. There's no real experience. There's other than being on my damn feet.

You should give them away. I have. I've given a lot of my shoes. I've given away a lot of my shoes. I've given away.

I've given away. But I do think there's also that. Do you ever challenge yourself? Like, you know, I would, I mean, I have boy I have challenges in a lot of different areas.

“I think God that this one is for me for whatever reason has never been an issue.”

It never been like a challenge.

Maybe because I grew up feeling secure in this way. It was never a big deal with my family, I think. So, you know, when it comes to like money in that way, I've never felt challenges there. I think God, I have challenges in a lot of areas where I really struggle.

But that's one where I think God every day, like, okay, this is not one that is a problem. Because I could see that one being a hard one, especially if you become successful. I could see that being a real challenge for some people or not being successful. I think that would be even harder. Yeah.

You know, I mean, challenge that way. And also feeling like, well, I think that's where a lot of people land. I think a lot of people land in that place of like constantly chasing this. Well, look at the depth people have with, like, just buying cars. Yeah.

Like the average car payment. You say. It's crazy. And most people have it, shouldn't even own that car. What are they doing before?

I think they bought this kind of idea. Yeah, did you see?

“I share with you guys, I think you guys are Christian Gaby's like,”

Well, I'm like the credit card debt. They have like the traits unbelievable. What we're in right now. Yeah. And the ability now to defer like food and defer like your rent.

That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah, it's wild. Eight sleep is the most advanced sleep system in the world that will dramatically improve your sleep.

So check it out. It goes over your mattress. And it cools or warms your bed. And it uses AI technology to monitor your sleep, to maximize the temperature, to maximize the quality of your sleep.

There's nothing like it anywhere. By the way, a lot of their devices have two sides. So you and your spouse can have different temperatures because of course, your different people. Look, if you want better sleep, better recovery, which leads to lots of better things,

better fat loss, better muscle gain. You want to get one thing that makes a huge impact. Go to eightsleep.com/minepump. Use the code "Minepump" and get yourself a massive huge discount back to the show.

Our first caller is Benjamin from Switzerland.

We're Benjamin. Hi, how are you, guys? Good. How can we help you? So a bit of context here. It's a two-part question.

But a few years ago, basically, I lost substantial amount of weight. And so it was a great benefit for my life. But I eventually pushed things away too far with training volume, running intensity. And especially the whole calorie tracking aspect of things. Which, basically, saw my hormones, energy and a lot of blood.

Mark is just completely tank. And so for the last few years, it's really been more of like uphill battle in a way of trying to rebuild my body with my relationship with it. But also just managing overall stress better, especially with. I'm kind of leading to three careers at the same time, so that's definitely a challenge.

I've run quite a few of your programs over the past couple years. Right now I'm doing performance again. Not two shifts. I should stick with it, but it seemed like a decent fit. And so my goals right now, basically, are to try and put on some muscle again, because I feel like I've been spinning my wheels.

But without overdoing the volume, I've been very into mobility and like handstand training is also. And recently did pick running back up, which I know sounds counterintuitive. But I really focused more on just the joy of it, without tracking metrics too much. And I've been loving it so far.

Yeah, more than anything, I think.

To be honest, it's more about getting back to feeling like the little ball of energy. I used to be known for being being, I guess. Yeah.

“Good question. So in your email, is there's you lost over a hundred pounds?”

Yeah, in the space of around two years, I lost around 135 pounds. Great job. Oh, yeah, you look great too. Great job, man. And so now the main goal is I just want to feel better and have more energy. Yeah, I think obviously the muscle and all that, like that's something that will come with time.

But it really is just, like he said, the daily energy just feeling good. And whether that's also with my relationship with food, exercise, and it's gone so good already.

But obviously, it's always a work in progress.

And then you said you have about three careers going on right now. Can you explain that a little bit? So basically, I'm a professional musician. So I'm performing soloist after having done my post-grad in that. But at the same time, I'm working in my family business, which is the methodology, but also longevity clinic now. So I'm working in that aspect of things and studying to become a health coach at the same time to kind of men the two together.

Okay, so this is a lot of work. Yeah, yeah, long days. Okay, so losing that much weight is a profoundly transformational, but also it's a big deal on the body. You lost a whole human off your body. And what it takes to get there is not where you want to stay to maintain.

And you're probably feeling the low energy because you're just, you're just doing too much. And you want to go through a period of rejuvenation and rebuilding. And you're going to need to go through this period for probably a year or two before you start to ramp things up and chase different goals. So you've got to, you're going to have to go through a period of rest essentially. Now that doesn't mean you don't exercise, but everything that you do is kind of moving in that direction or centered towards that or aiming towards that.

And what you'll notice from that is more energy. So less is more with this process. You know, maps 15 would be your strength training protocol. Yeah. If you really really love running, I guess it's okay.

But if you want the energy, I would walk and just focus on steps. I'll just make sure you're fueled if you're going to do that running. You don't want to be running and really low calorie too. That would be very bad recipe. Running with with the proper amount of nutrients and calories for the enjoyment of it.

See, okay, but if I was training you, I'd want to, I'd want to know where we're at. Calorie wise before I let you go, run and do that. I mean, kind of where sales going and where my brain goes with where you're at in your life.

You did such an incredible job getting down to where you're, you're, you're, you're a much healthier fitter place.

Your workouts should, your, your workouts actually shouldn't be your focus. Your focus should be kind of the career, your passions, staying healthy.

“And so you should train to, to be that person.”

You've, you've done such a good job getting here. And then all the other things, the energy, hormone stuff, all that stuff. Well, balance itself out because you work out to support your lifestyle. What you're doing, not to get to a certain place. You're at a place in your life where you have a lot of stuff going on.

You've already accomplished the big, the big rock, which was getting all that weight off your body and putting yourself in a healthy weight. Now, what, like, your workout optimization looks like is, is really doing the, the least amount to, you least amount to, listen, the most change, which is just a, a, a minimal dose that keeps you strong. Get you good rest, keeps you mobile, but not trying to stretch yourself and like hit these goals and trying to gain a bunch of muscle or get really good at BJJ or it's like, that's what's going to optimize you for longevity.

In Benjamin, that doesn't mean you're always going to be there, right, right.

Okay, because this is period of your time. This is a season, so to put it differently, you went through a radical physical and psychological transformation, losing all that weight. And so now your body needs to go through a period of rest. That was a radical change.

“So like, like, when I work with a woman who gets pregnant and has a baby, they're always like, how quickly can they get back and shape?”

How fast can they get back to how I was like, well, hello, we just went through a radical change. Now, that doesn't mean you don't progress afterwards, but it's going to take a couple years before you start to feel like, oh, like, I'm back to my old self because that radical change.

Your change was massive.

A hundred and thirty five pound weight loss physically is a big deal, but it's also psychologically a big deal.

“Like, your mind had to change quite a bit to go from where you were to where you're right now.”

So now you got to go through a period of of of rest and recuperation, which is probably going to look like a year or two. Which also, by the way, though, is the fastest path to you feeling better. You white, not clearly the you white, not killing it and trying to work your way back to a healthier version yourself is not going to work. No, so this is not like one of those things. It's like, can I do this and can I do that? Can I do this to get to me to feel this way?

“It's like, honestly, the less you do in this situation and focus just on healthy, rest, recovery, doing as little as possible to build some strength and that's what it looks like.”

So this is not one of those things of what are all the things I can do to get there faster. The fastest path actually looks like the kind of laying off like what sounds alluding to right now. That is the fastest path and I think you'll, I think you'll see positive changes. Oh, yeah, relatively quick, before I think he's setting the table, so you have to set your expectations right that this could take a year or so to get back to there. Like the best version of you, but you could you could start to feel that right away and a lot sooner, but it's not through doing more.

“Yeah, the reason why I'm saying a year or two is because you are going to feel better quickly and you might be fooled into thinking now I can ramp things back up.”

Because if you start to follow in maps 15 right now and you did no additional strength training, no additional workouts and all you did was maps 15 and walk. Okay, no extra exercise, no running, no calisthenics or BJJ. No nothing, just just walk every day, make sure I get you know 8 to 10,000 steps and then my lifting looks like maps 15 which is like to the energy be through the roof within within a month. You're going to notice an increase in energy and you're going to feel good and then you're going to be fooled into thinking, okay, now I can ramp it back up.

Yeah, what I'm saying to you is you got to have a year of that a year of feeling good a year of that rest before you start to ramp things up maybe even two years because that's 135 pounds is not nothing. Most people don't even get close to that weight loss, you literally lost an entire human. So that's the direction when I go in the reason why you feel like you're doing these things which your energy isn't good is because much it's time now to let your body settle after all that massive shift because if keep pushing which by the way pushing isn't going to look like a lot.

So because you may judge it you may think well, this is not that much. I know people who work out like that. Yeah, but they didn't lose 135 pounds. So give yourself like a year or two of sitting in that rest and then I promise you it's going to be like, oh man, I can start ramping things up and you'll be a brand new person.

It's funny because I obviously and it's what we always say like I know deep down that that's exactly what I tell others and it's always harder and it's always way.

We will never follow our own advice and that's why already I've now it's been what I mean eight months maybe also that I decided to put BJJ on the side and that was tough like I really felt enough with it and it also it was one of my outlets in the beginning to kind of shift my focus away from all the calorie tracking and all that and it gave me this kind of focus that I mean you've talked about it of like just performance and yeah. That kind of aspect but I realize that it's still not the right moment and I'll pick it back up I'm sure later on.

But that was kind of I know that was rough for me, but if I if I'm honest with myself like. I know that over the past four years since I lost I will wait like. I've hovered around the same five kilos which is maybe like ten pounds of like trying these like kind of books but then stopping a bit shy because I felt uncomfortable with it. Also from my perspective there's.

A side of it is always hard to judge in terms of I know I like this obviously some new skin and stuff like that so judging like also where I'm at body was like.

And I often is a value in itself to you know just trust the process and I've really worked since like September so to just stay on I set this goal of whatever happens like I'm not going to do anything too drastic in terms of trying to. Even approaching the holidays is the first time I didn't approach it with a cart or anything so like I've done huge improvements in terms of that. But it's always yeah it's it's something I know like it will take time I'm just trying to navigate kind of this.

How do I yeah the working out in terms of Benjamin I know you don't much let ...

What you did to lose a hundred thirty five pounds is a lot harder than what you need to do right now. Yeah okay you're being really hard on yourself number two I've never seen somebody lose over a hundred pounds and look as good as you do. Never. Yeah you sent some pictures. I'm like muscular. I mean yeah you talk about loose skin like you live with like your body bounced better than I've ever seen.

Yeah and I've worked with a lot of people who've had some pretty radical transformations through bariatric surgeries and like so you're you're doing great.

“Here's here's the deal okay you're afraid of going back to where you were before and I get that here's how you should approach nutrition.”

Stop tracking. Eat until you're satisfied eat whole foods hit your protein that's it that's it don't weigh yourself because that's going to mess you up. And try not to study yourself in the mirror take pictures of yourself too much and don't try and feel good don't try and bulk or cut feed the body when it's hungry it's a beautiful thing when it'll it'll tell you how much when you're getting healthy and your strength training with like a map 15 it will tell you when it needs more calories to build that muscle and it'll tell you when you're satisfied and find it's a beautiful thing.

So long as it's whole natural foods you could trust your satiety signals much more so you just see whole natural foods hit your protein targets which is your body weight and protein at that first.

Follow mass 15 and just watch list of day you're good that's it dude and it yeah it's going to be hard but it's I'm telling you right now it is what you went through to get here way harder dude. Yeah you're being really I think you're just got some fear because you're maybe afraid of going back to where you were before whatever but I don't think that's going to happen.

“Yeah for sure and like I think it's kind of part two of the question if that's all right.”

Yeah I think you had a right note about the fears that like I'm very aware of it. But this in a sense also a bit of imposter syndrome I think because a big thing for me right now like a massive goal and like driving purpose in my life.

Which I've always had from playing the cheddar you know performing for people it's I want to help people and like so and in this case.

I basically want to help them avoid the mistakes that I made it on the way and so like I know that everyone goes through the struggles but there's that aspect of. I'm still struggling with certain things and I'm very honest about it I have no issue talking about it. But managing that kind of reality of things while also being able to help others in the life journeys and transformations lean into it. Lean into a bedroom. I don't make you better lean into it you've been listening to the show for a long time yeah.

“You're going to say yes of course I'm going to say I could have put it because if you've listened for a long time you know that's what makes this show was that.”

We're not afraid to share our struggles the things today still today you know what we go through. And our mishaps and what we learned and how silly and stupid we were before and how we keep making mistakes people connect with that and people will resonate with that and they'll respect that. So lean into that lean into where you're at in your journey where you get in posture syndrome is when you try and pretend you're something you're not.

And and people will appreciate the vulnerability and appreciate what you've accomplished already is amazing and can help so many people from from your story.

Don't try and pretend like you have all the answers and you've figured it all out. Let him know you'll be in a posture that's right then you'll feel in posture syndrome be who you are and where you're at and open with what you're still trying to figure out. And that is what we'll resonate with the people that you're helping and you'll help way more people that way and you'll be far more successful if you come from that place. Yeah, and I started saying actually some social media content like focused on cooking because I love cooking and giving like kind of healthier tips around that like meal prep like you often like.

I may have used you a couple of times in terms of cooking batch meats of the dinner before, but yeah, trying to like because it's been a way to reclaim kind of power over food like the way that it controlled me and I'm trying to funnel that also. But yeah, I know I'm stepping in the right direction it's more just kind of being able to strip things down and get a clear view. Yeah, yeah, I have no I have a lot of confidence that you're going to do great doing good bro. Yeah, I think that the discomfort you feel is because you're such a fast grower it sounds like sounds like you're pretty rapid with personal growth when you kind of decide to go in a direction and that's always uncomfortable.

You're going you're doing great bro, you're going to really really well give ...

Sticking the whole natural foods hit your protein first that's your those your those your guard rails. I think it's great if you help other people. I think that's one of the things that saved me from going too crazy.

Was that I helped other people and be honest and be just totally honest make your better coach better trainer that's it. That's it. Yeah, you're doing great.

Yeah, and I just wanted to say yeah, thanks for all the stories also that you guys share I know recently Adam everything you've been talking about like it. Just like what I want to be able to provide to others like it really does help give a lot of a more human like approach to this.

“So I think it's yeah, it's amazing what you guys have been doing awesome. Thank you. You're going to do great bro. Yeah, do you have maps 15 you have all any of those programs or since.”

So actually I do have 15, but I was wondering if maybe to make just unhappy also. Do you reckon maps 15 performance could be something. Yeah, yeah, I'll send it to you. We're both great. Yeah, you got to do. Good. All right, but if I can ask one last little suggestion. Yeah, you guys should consider doing some sort of like maps in a or maps in a circle program with Jordan side once. I'm sure that's something a lot of people would love.

Yeah, awesome. We love Jordan. He's great. Sure, man. He's great. All right, Benjamin. Take it easy brother. Give it up. All right. Uh, by the way, his, the way he looks, I've for losing 35 pounds like best.

I know it's crazy because 35 pounds. Yeah, it's massive. You got to go look, you go through a drastic dramatic.

First of all, losing 30 pounds of body fat is a big change mentally physically 135 pounds.

Yeah, you're going to need a year to just sit in it and just let your body rest or recuperate. You had chasing for that whole time. It's really good that we had a discussion around that because I know what you mean when you say that.

“But I think a lot of people hear that and they think a year.”

Yeah, I got a way to year to see results. You feel later. Yeah, you know, I just think that it's or just think it's going to be that long until they feel good at all. It's like, you'll feel, you'll feel better and better every week. And then you've got to just wait a year. And you're right. What happens to people is they start off the right path by taking the advice. And then a month or two later, they're like, oh, I feel great.

And then they start to wrap it up and they go right back. And so that's really the advice is that listen, you're going to be, you're going to be feeling really good pretty quick. You know, a couple, a couple months of taking that advice, walking and eating like that and training mass 15 30 60 days. He's going to be feeling really good. What he doesn't know is that his body's not really good yet.

And he's a stay in that place for a year.

“And that's going to be the hard part is the temptation to want to ramp up and do more.”

Our next caller is John from Kentucky. What's up, John? Hey, John. Hey, Dennis. Good. How can we help you, man? Well, I'll just start with the emails. Most people do said hello, guys.

First of all, I want to thank you for information that you guys put it out in the way you put it out there.

So many people like to make things sound so complicated and I really appreciate the simple way you guys put it out. So let's comment about what can understand it. Back story time. I'm 47 years old, six foot four, three hundred twenty pounds down from three eighty at my heaviest. It's been several years to get there.

Yo, back and forth on and off. So top two diabetic. I am on Montcharo, more for the diabetes and the weight loss from a doctor keeps pushing me to try to get my dose up. I'm currently on 7.5 milligrams weekly. It's the auto injector all or nothing.

Do have low testosterone. I was 700 when we found out about it. The put me on 200 milligrams every other week. Levels come up, jump out 404 average. So I've talked to my doctor and put me on 200 milligrams weekly.

And after listening to your MP hormones podcast the other day, I've decided to start even breaking that up. I'm doing the Monday Thursday. Like, like he suggested on that video. So doing the 100 on Monday, 100 on Thursday. Just started that this week.

So I can't really tell you how well it's working for me. But hopefully it works a lot better than what this has been. I am a stage three ritual cancer survivor with a stage one. Reoccurrence almost two years later, luckily, you know, they were able to catch that reoccurrence super super early.

It allows for a surgical procedure that didn't leave me with any kind of a pe...

Costume user stuff like that.

“So definitely thank God for that one because I was struggling with that.”

So I'm an athletic trainer at a local hospital here where I live.

I've always been with jobs not always physically demanding, but there's lots of standing lots of moving.

And what we've been I've been the fat kid and started to stop more times than I can count. Kind of tired of it. Time to make a time to make a change. Sorry, I waited so long in life to do it, but I got to do it. So look around on Spotify for podcast on fitness over 40 and I found your episode about the best workout dot

and supplement routine for me in over 40. I wrote everything down so I'm doing everything to the letter as with most knuckleheads. I decided to add a third day to it and so to doing the two days. And it's what it is, right? More is better, right?

So after 10 weeks of that, which we're at 12 weeks now, I'm making good progress. At least I was ended up with a pinch nerve in my neck. My doctor that's my medical director here concerned that yesterday put me on some high dose steroids and some muscle relaxers. I'm doing a little bit of PT with a body of mind to kind of hope to get that wound out pretty clear to click as I can and get back into doing everything. My nutrition isn't perfect.

I worked in crazy hours, do the best I can was trying to eat whole foods.

It doesn't always work. Sometimes subways the best I can do that day or, you know, unfortunately, pizza.

“So I remember in about 2600 calories a day, 160 grams of protein, 230 grams of carbs, 101 grams of fat.”

So with losing with the pinch nerve, I was losing some actually a lot of strength in my left arm as far as the triceps do. Having pain and muscle spasms in that tricep didn't know if I was over training or if it was the pinch nerve, then if I'd have the pinch nerve. I probably were trading a little bit too with not enough calories and be my guess, but. Elbow kind of kicks out gives out when I'm trying to do any kind of chest or tricep exercise. So, uh, started to go backwards on that really kind of hit me a little bit. I was doing some good that that that back spot kind of hurt me a little bit, but.

I just want to know you guys opinion on what I need to do now is I mean, obviously after I get this pinch nerve under control. Where do I need to go from here?

Yeah, you're doing pretty well.

I mean, the the black and white answers and by the way in your email, you said they wanted up your dose. Yeah, yeah, my doctor keeps trying to get me to push that up and I keep fighting or it's a matter of fact, I've got an appointment days tweaking. I'm I'm going to, I'm going to tell her I want to drop back down. I want to drop down to the five. Uh, the five milligram to get up and stuff. It calls as so much G problems with me. It is it really hits me hard.

When I take it the beginning of the week for the first, you know, two or three days, it's miserable, then it kind of gets better, but then it's time to take it again and I'm just tired of the G problems with it. Is it, is it a constipation diarrhea as it has to reflect all of your above? It's it's diarrhea. It's just nausea that kind of stuff. Okay, well, I will tell you too though, just so you know, the most likely, at least in my experience, the subway sandwiches and the pizza will exacerbate that for sure too.

Just so you know, like, yes, it definitely does not do well on foods that your body doesn't digest easy. It definitely makes all those things really, really difficult. So my clients that that had struggled with this helping them connect those dots that hey, it's like when you're taking that stuff, it's even more important to eat super clean. And if you don't, you're going to, you're going to end up paying for it. You could take, you could try, you could try a psyllium husk fiber. Uh, and you take that with each meal and oftentimes it makes a difference.

Okay, yeah, with with the GI stuff.

“Okay, so I mean, here's the thing, you want to be consistent with nutrition?”

Yes, okay, and maintain that. Uh, and then as far as workout is concerned, I can send you one of ours, so you have something to follow. But, you know, also just taking a step back on, you said, this is something we've been just cycling, that's challenging you've been dealing with since you were a kid. Yes, okay, your best bet is, I don't know if it's, if it's feasible for you, but working with a coach is going to be your best bet because it's going to be a bit of a process. Yes, so, you know, we have really good coaches, you would work with them, and the way they would use it, take it through step by step.

So they start you off with nutrition, they look at what you're doing. We'll start tracking, make adjustments as we go along, they'll also make adjustments to your workout programming.

We could send, you know, videos, your technique and your form, and then just ...

I will say, I think you're doing a great job.

Yeah, you got the hormones down, looks like you've already lost like 60 pounds or something like that, which is really good. You're moving in the right direction for sure, which would make you a really good candidate for now, taking the step and working with a coach. And I think six months of coaching would be a super transformational for a guy like you. I think it would be very, very, very transformation. Also really good timing with you getting the TRT up, because 400 is still low, now you're going to end up being higher than that now, which is going to be so nice.

And if you do hit those macros, if we can hit those macros, those are good macros, the numbers you gave, if we can be consistent with that. TRT levels up falling good programming. You could consist of programming.

“Yeah, you should, you should start doing really well.”

That doesn't mean we won't have tough weeks and backslides, but that's what the coaching and what sales talking about is in those moments and those times that the coaches just like, all right, this is what I want you to do from here. Probably the biggest mistake clients do when they're on their own with this is hard swings one way or either doing really, really good.

Or you have really shitty bad eating and bad, bad couple days or what I thought.

Yeah, and sometimes that's over committing yourself to too much, too soon at certain stages. So that, and this is what good coaching looks like is that that consistent conversation where it's like, you know, as a coach, I can see, okay, there's a couple things he's doing here that I don't want him doing, but I don't want to tell him to stop all that stuff. I'm going to have him just focus on this one thing, right, and let's get better. And then this, and that, that's what it looks like is just attacking one, one thing that's going to make improvements and then another thing that's going to make improvements.

The coach determined that. Yeah, and the coach determines that for you to help you stack these wins, so it doesn't feel like this pendulum swinging back and forth really hard. Just like just to give you, just so you know, the hard swings, part of the reason why it's it's a hard swing to the, to the good side is because you feel like crap about, you know, what just happened, I just fell off. I just eat all the pizza, whatever, then you swing right out of one direction, and then you hate it, and then you swing hard in the other direction. And so yeah, here's a lot of times I've let, you know, several times I've let, you know, about day or two bad days or something, just kind of kind of sabotage that and I'm like, well, crap, and then yep, you know, here we go, but.

And you know what, here's a deal, too, like, feeling crappy about yourself in that way only makes it all worse, and this sounds logical by the way, it's up, you know, you probably understand this up here. But you know, getting through the process and feeling it, you know, in here, makes a big difference. So I'll give you this advice right here. The coach will be very effective. The more honest you are and the more you turn to them.

Okay, so what you don't want to do is keep from them, the little mess ups keep from them, the challenge keep, they tell you like, look, I don't want to do that be honest with them.

“That'll allow them to coach you in a very effective way. I think in six months, you'll be huge difference.”

You'll have some definitely some physical changes for sure, but just the mental place you're going to be in very different in six months, and it'll be your odds of success, consistent success will go through the roof. So that's essentially what you'll be looking at. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

You want somebody to call you? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I talked to somebody. All right, I'm going to have someone call you John. Okay.

And I'll let them know what we talked about. And then I hope to see you in there, dude. Yeah. All right, brother. You got a good man.

Yeah, appreciate you, yes. Thanks.

“I just want people to know too, like listening, like it's, it's very easy for us experienced, you know.”

Fitness guys to tell them the right answer. Of course. That's, that's not hard. That's easy. The hard part is like, okay, now we got to do it.

And we got to do it consistently. You messed up. What do we do now? And, you know, you're looking at, you know, for guy like this with what he's going through, you know, between six months to a year of that real transformation. We're then just like, you know what?

I can do this. I got this. I can do this on my own. Well, and I'm so glad you say what you said with the last piece of advice of being honest with your coach, because a lot of the success or the failure of this is hinges on that.

That's right. If he's really transparent and like, man, that was really hard to do those things or I really liked that. Or, you know, I screwed up and I did this thing. A good coach will be able to see that and go. We're going to work with what you told us.

Yeah. And then I know it's like, okay, I gave him a little too much. I did a little too much, too soon. Let me just have him do this. And then we start stacking winds and then I can add another thing.

And so then getting that and that's a six month to a year type of journey. What happens sometimes oftentimes, I would say, is the person does well in the beginning, then they start messing up. They hide it from the trainer or they tell them and then they get sick of telling them that they messed up a bunch of times so they hide it.

Then they stop seeing the coach.

But it's not because they don't like the coach, because they're like, I just don't want to deal with this. Yeah. I don't want to be that failure or whatever. So you just got to keep turning to keep turning. They'll be way more effective if you do that.

Our next callers Rebecca from Florida. Hi Rebecca. Hi Rebecca. Hey. Huge fan so excited to be here.

Thanks for calling in. How can we help you?

So my husband and I are starting our first cut.

We've been on a bulk. So we both like, I had to give you a little background. I started weight training about a year ago. Got in a big accident was had to kind of change up my routine. So started weight training for the first time fell in love with it.

Started doing a bulk to build up my muscles. So I've been doing reverse diets. We listened to your advice all the time. Kind of working out every day. Four five to six times a week.

Now we want to start a cut. And wanted your nutrition advice work out advice. We're thinking about changing our work out routine. About three days a week or training. And kind of doing more full body.

We did the push pull legs. And then variety of other exercises. So want some advice on that and some advice on nutrition. All right. Rebecca first off.

I'm going to ask you why you want to do a cut. You look amazing. Yeah. You look like you're like low 20 body factors. Like what do you want to try to get to?

Well, like I've gained 10. So I've gained about 10 pounds. I'm about a 22% body fat. But I've gained about 10 pounds. So I'm feeling like what do I do next?

I don't want to like keep gaining. But I want to make sure that I like. Where are your calories out right now? So I don't track that. Okay.

Because I feel like I've been super hungry since I started. That's such a good. That's you getting. I keep a lot. Like I, you know, we try to keep up our protein goals.

But I don't, we don't track macros or calories.

“So Rebecca, what's your husband's body fat percentage?”

Does he test this? He can now at 21. So he went from one 75. He went up another 10%. And then the also question is, we love working out together.

We're really busy. We have three kids. This is our time together. Can we be doing the same or should we be doing this? Yeah.

You're work out fine. Okay.

So here's what I'm going to tell you.

I don't think you should go on a cut. He could go on a cut. Yeah. Yeah. Your body fat percentage is low 20s.

So you're 22%. I can see that you got some muscle. It's a healthy range. Your, your 50. If you go on a cut, you're not going to like the way it feels at all.

In fact, the better way for you to get leaners to keep building. Especially if you're getting the signal that you're still hungry. Yeah. You'll actually get leaner. Yeah.

You get leaner easier if you just focus on building. For you. Yes. If you start to cut, what'll probably happen is you'll lose some muscle. Hormones are going to go, not that good.

And you're not going to be very happy. So I would have you continue on the reverse. And you can slow it down if you want. And just try to keep building muscle. I don't know where your husband's calories are at.

So if unless they're low, then that would be different. But if he's at. And they're not low. We both try to eat and we're three kids teenage kids. We have big dinners.

But we have a lot of protein. We eat a lot of meat. Okay. Good. Good.

Good. He is.

“So what about the fitness of what about the training routine?”

So we've been doing like five days. We're thinking about doing now cutting it to three days full body. I love that. And a ballic. And they're getting some like cardio on on the off days.

Perfect. Love that. That's perfect. Love that. That's kind of a map set of ballic with the cardio on the off days.

Yep. Two days a week. Just an actually bought me. Muscle money. Muscle mommy maps.

Yeah. Fifteen. But I can't figure out how to get it into the routine that I'm doing. Why don't I just send you the original muscle on me with. Yeah, probably be better fit.

Yeah. The original. So you're working out of three. You're in a few days a week. The trigger sessions.

You do cardio. Yeah. That's it. I'll send you that program. You follow that.

And your husband can follow along. If you want to change something else. Which give him a muscle. Give him a map set of ballic. And you got to both be working out at the same time doing similar stuff.

It's a different programming. Yeah. But put him on it. Put him on a ballic. He can run a cut.

You stay the same. And so is there. Okay. Since you don't track. Should we track?

I mean, well, I'm not going to.

I've never would force a client because you especially as great as you look in

And you're doing such a good job. But I would ask a little bit deeper questions about you. Like if you were to tell me what's our bad thing. Like do you. If you're not eating perfect.

What does it look like? Uh, our bad thing is not food. It's drinking. So we're trying to. I'm drinking during the week.

Okay. I think like one with dinner. Okay. Okay. Okay.

So here's my advice to you.

“If you want to see yourself lean out a little bit.”

Try and replace the alcohol calories with meals. So instead of instead of drinking. Instead of 160 calories with a wine. Have a meal. Well, like a real small.

You're not having a 160 calories with one. Nobody has 100. You're going to see your calories alone. There's a discount. Yeah.

Do you have what do you have what do you have. Do you have one two out one two out one two out.

No.

Yeah. I'm sure you have four.

I'm sure you have four or 500 calories with a wine which is normal when someone's having a nice

night of drinking. So with that. Katrina and I enjoy that.

“But if you want to see your body change a little bit more without tracking doing that,”

do your best to replace the alcohol with a good meal. A good balance meal with the way your metabolism going the way your building muscle. You will build more muscle. You will lean out if you can do. And listen, I'm going to tell you do it forever.

Just do it for me for a couple months. And I'll show you what that your body. And guess what, when you build the more by switching that for a little bit building the muscle, your metabolism go up, then you can get away with more of the alcohol later on. And still keep a better body.

So that so if that's your thing. It sounds like you're doing a lot of the other things right. And I bet the extra protein that your body will need will fuel that building muscle. That will be it. That's all I would change.

That's enough that you told me enough right there to go. That little tweak for a couple months will not only lean you out. You'll see yourself your waist sign probably come in and you'll build muscle. And you'll look amazing. Your husband can probably go a little bit on a cut on animal.

Like you guys will be off. You can cut the alcohol. You can cut our cello from your team. I gave it some nutrition advice. You call with gave him some advice on like how to like look at food with using your hand.

And that's really helpful. Okay, there you go. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah.

But it sounds right.

“I would not put you I wouldn't put you on a cut at all.”

You're making it. And that and the especially since you tell me to you have these crazy hungry. Your body's trying to build. It wants to build more muscle. You'll run the risk if you try to go on a cut of losing muscle and ending up with less muscle.

You're gonna run it. I don't want to do it. It's loose because that works really hard. Yes. Yes.

No, you will keep going in that direction. And if you just replace the the extra calories that are coming from alcohol with Meals with pro high protein Meals. You're gonna you'll build muscle and you'll lean out. Do you do those recommend to three meals a day or like eating more frequently with personal preference.

Yeah. It's personal preference. But keep this in mind. Okay. It's really hard for both men and women to hit their protein intake with like three

or less meals. It typically takes at least. It is. It's hard to get that. Many grams of protein.

Unless you.

“You're eating 10 ounces of meat every time you eat.”

It's hard to get enough protein each time. Especially early on breakfast meals. That's where most people have the hardest time. So four meals. Totally normally looks like a good.

Good spot. You know, with with balance protein is is a good spot to be at. If you do last, you just got to keep in mind that you got to really eat a big portion of meat to make up for that protein. So yeah.

If you guys were to ever track anything that would be the thing I'd have you track first is just just see if you're hitting your your

grams of protein every day consistently and I bet I bet if we were to just track that and watch that because you get some of these empty calories from alcohol occasionally. If anything's low, it's protein and I bet if you bump that up, you'll see more muscle come on and you'll lean out. Because those are just empty calories and I do anything for you other than enjoyment. But I'm not going to tell that forever because if you like that, I like that. Katrina and I Katrina loves wine. I like having a nice class of whiskey. I absolutely balance that in my life.

But what I'm trying to make some changes. Yeah, that goes aside for a little bit. Give me a couple months of running it and making good and it makes a huge difference. Huge difference. Yeah.

And your fight. The fitness routine changing it from the five days to the three days of weight plus the two days of. Yeah. Yeah. You're going to get stronger.

You're going to get stronger and you're going to build muscle. It's going to be great. Yeah. Yes. I want to thank you guys so much.

You have helped us both both. Personally in our relationship by starting this together professionally. I run a small company that trains teachers and we've started like with hard behaviors with children and started introducing some of this wellness to them. And it has changed the way that they walk into their classrooms every day. So it doesn't fly all the time and a lot of what you share.

I try to share with the teachers I work with and it's been super helpful. That's so awesome. Guys. Thank you. That's really good.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah. Okay. I got to say I'm just going to just people listening.

If you're a woman over the age of 40, you've been strength training. Your body fat percentage is in the low 20s. Don't go on a cut. Don't go on a cut. You're going to get negative effects from it.

Almost always. Listen. Honestly. I don't care what you age. What age you are is a female.

This is what we're experiencing. I will experience with Karen right now. Yeah. Our body fat percentage was too low. Like before we started seeing the results when I see what it needed to be up to see.

That's right. It's like the most. Put it back up. And you've been saying this for a very long time. Most.

There's always exceptions to the rules, right.

But for the majority. Most women do better in 19 plus percent as far as the results. And we've talked about that.

You recently talked about this with just being mind blown about where I just ...

high.

“A body with more muscle on it at higher body fat percentage looks way better than you think”

it does. Just a skinnier body.

So if she puts on five pounds of muscle, she'll look three percent.

Even if her body fat percentage. That's what I mean. Even if she stays the same as she puts five pounds of muscle on, she'll look three percent. And so and and be eating way more and healthier stronger.

That's faster metabolism. That gives her that flexibility to have that glass of wine air in there and be okay. Our next color is Angela from Indiana. Angela. Hello.

Hi. Hi. Thanks for having me. You got it. How can we help you?

Okay. I'm just going to read my email. Like most people do.

Because I'm a 47-year-old Perry menopausal mother of three teenagers.

I'm a recovery long distance runner, OTF-goer, Gower, Orange Theory Fitness, and beach body workout person. I work a full-time job in two part-time jobs. I've been working out consistently for the last 18 months, but really haven't noticed any changes in my body.

I'm reaching my protein goals and sleeping seven to eight hours per night. I've done muscle mommy twice in anabolic once in addition to other non-mine pump workouts. I love your help to actually see changes in my body. I also have recurrent tennis elbow in my right arm. This has caused me to avoid workouts for up to six weeks in the past and then I get an injection

and it gets better. Just any recommendations on how to prevent just in the future. Okay. Cool. So when you're doing our programs, are you doing anything else on top of it like cardio,

like any other exercise? So for the most part, no, just walking, try to get 8 to 10,000 steps in a day.

On the days I do a workout, it's probably closer to like seven, 8,000 steps, but on the

days that I don't have a workout than I make a leisurely walk my workout for the day. Good.

“And then when you say for the most part, what do you mean?”

I did try running again a little while back, but I've stopped it since because I was just tired of not seeing changes, but I've stopped that probably about six weeks ago. Okay. So you're just burning the candle above things with full time, two part time, you've got three teenagers, you also have a history of just getting after it, seems like that's your M.O.

Whenever one of our maps 15 programs would work better for you, you would get much better results with something like that. I was feeling you were going to say that. Yeah, do you work on a gym or do you work at a home? Right now I work out at home.

Good. Good. I'm going to send you, you like muscle mommy type of style, I can send you maps 15 muscle mommy. Yeah, that'd be great.

I'll send that to you, do that, maintain the walking, keep it in the protein, getting good sleep, and I think you're going to start seeing some good progress. And as far as the Perry menopausal thing, are you doing anything on the hormone side? Are you got somebody checking and watching that? Is that all good?

Yeah, so I start, well, I haven't got a call of just, we started looking into it last year. I've actually been on hormone replacement since about September. Okay. Oh, it's perfect. Yeah.

Yeah, you're just doing so much that the dose of strength trainees will be less. Okay. I do plan on cutting back my jobs at some point in time, but I have twins in flight school, and so my husband and I are trying to pick off their flight school loans for them, so they don't have a lot of deaths.

Wow. Very cool. No, no, the 15 programs. So after maps 15 muscle mommy, if you feel good on it, which I think you will, then go to the next maps 15 program, mass 15 symmetry or power lift or traditional mass 15, I think

that protocol is going to give you great results. Are you, are you tracking calories or anything right now or do you have any idea where you're at? Right now, no, at the beginning of the year, maybe a couple of times a year, I do. I'm normally between like 19 and 2100.

Yeah, it's just really low for a lot of activity you're doing. So that you're not too bad, you're probably going to want to bump another 100 to 200 calories and then drop to that 15, and I bet your body responds better to that. So if you're getting 8 to 10,000 steps every day, and you were trained that much and the jobs, and that's a lot, and so you were probably just your body's stalled.

“Here's the thing that when you come out of this, be patient because it takes a little”

bit of time for the body kind of reset, get healthy again, and then it will respond. So when it looks like a lot of times, you'll start to feel better right away as far as, like, rest and just energy and like mood, all those things will start to improve. And then what will start to happen slowly is strength. You'll sort of see strength in the gym and then what comes after that is the body change

in the results. So just be patient. It takes a minute for the body to kind of reorganize and say, oh, I'm being fed again. Oh, this feels good.

Oh, here. Let me reward you. You're getting stronger in the gym and then comes the aesthetic result. So just be just, this is the path. This is what you need to do, trust the process, and then, but it just know that, just

know that it takes a minute to, for it all to get going. Don't abandon it and go, oh my god, this is enough. I need to start doing it more stuff because then you'll just go right back to where

You were.

Yeah. That's kind of why I reached out. I'm trying to do it for 18 months, obviously getting older, my husband is actually very fit. He goes to the gym frequently, my, all my kids are sons, they all run, they go to the gym, they do all kinds of stuff and so, you know, I just, I kind of want to, I want to look like

I work out. I don't have to obviously be like a beach body competitor. I've had twins. My stomach is a disaster. I understand all that.

I just want to, I want people to look at me and look like I take care of myself. Yeah.

“Have you, have you considered joining our muscle mommy group?”

We have a group of women that's, and a lot, I'd say, good half of them are menopausal parry menopausal.

Going through very, very similar stuff and it's an incredible community and weekly coaching

and help along the way. Yeah, I've thought about it. Obviously trying to pair my kids, student loaners, we try to be mindful of how much we spend right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why don't I get you in there for a month or three? You could, you could, you could bounce after that, but just get some advice. Oh, that would be great. All right. We'll send that to you.

Okay. Yeah. And you're doing good. Yep. You're doing good, huh?

Be kind to yourself. I appreciate you all.

I listen to you all, on my walks typically.

Yeah, you're doing good. And I really do think that's just too much.

“So I think within a week or two, you should start to see strength gains and that's when”

you know you're moving the right direction. Yeah. I want to be strong as I age. Good. Good, good.

You will. All right. So we're going to send you a map 15 muscle mommy and then we're going to get you in the muscle mommy group for 30 days for free. So you get some advice.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Got it.

All right.

I think people need to realize just like how much all the life stuff affects your body's

ability to adapt to exercise. Yeah. Yeah, of course.

“You got to factor that in, but it's hard because it just seems like that's your”

normal. Yeah. But that's stress. That's right. And also in the context of age, how low your calories are, that stuff.

It just hormones kids, pills. Yeah, it's, it's redlining your engine with no oil in it or gas. It's like it's offensive. You're going to shut down on you. And then that's frustrating because you're still stepping on the gas.

That's hoping to go somewhere and you're not going anywhere. And then also then being patient when you start to do the right thing because the right thing, it takes a minute for that body to reset and get back to where needs of people to start to show you results. And that what happens is most people.

Here that advice and it makes sense logically for them. But then they don't see the change quick enough. And then they bail on it. Oh, the back to all habits. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram.

Mine, put me there. Thank you for listening to mine, Tom. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy. And maximize your overall performance.

Check out our discounted RGB Super bundle at minepumpmedia.com. The RGB Super bundle includes maps and a ballad. Maths performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform

the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super bundles like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super bundle has a full 30-day money bag guarantee.

And you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at minepumpmedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating in review and iTunes and by introducing minepump to your friends and family.

We thank you for your support. And until next time, this is minepump.

Transcript