Explosive Tyler Robinson Footage and Speaking the Truth, with Megyn Kelly

Hello, and welcome to Positively Legal. I'm Mark Eiglars, one of your hosts, and I'm a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, a junk law professor, author, and avid pickleball player. And with me is--

[LAUGH] >> Janice Bilboar, I'm a criminal defense attorney. I do not play pickleball, and I'm also the founder of Janice Bilboar law. Today, Day 3, Tyler Robinson's preliminary hearing is underway.

This whole week, we've heard and seen evidence that is not released up until this point that we want to share with you. >> Yeah, we're going to talk all about why they're doing it. What's happening? Plus, this minus is everything.

But first, it's happy hour time.

What does that mean for positively legal? Well, number one, we don't have alcohol, we don't get the drink. So why we name it that, I don't know. But it's my opportunity, the limited opportunity, for me to get to know you a little bit better, Jana,

“by knowing what your day was like, what'd you do today?”

>> So I got to say, you know, right on point here, because of the Tyler Robinson, kind of what is going to be a very extended preliminary hearing. I literally marked, this is a rare day where I started on TV. It's 715 in the morning, and I am going to be ending after this show.

So it's eight hours of on-air, but I got to tell you something. I love that. You know, some, I don't know how many court appearances you do in a given day. There are some days when I literally am in five different courts

in five different counties, like boom, boom, nonstop.

And that can get exhausting. Doing this, watching other people with the, with the stress of having the client that they're responsible for, and just getting to talk about it, using our legal acumen. >> I agree with you.

>> That all day, every day. >> So much easier to sit back and just talk about it, right? >> Criticism, yeah. >> Yeah, entertaining, but be educational, right? Helping people understand legal issues.

That's kind of what I'm about, I'm being of service, right? >> Without having that, it's pressure. And maybe clients should know this and appreciate it. Like, I don't think anybody takes it lightly. When I have a client sitting next to me,

I don't care whether I'm representing the amount of J walking ticket, I'm being hyperbolic here. Or something much more serious. Every single element of what I have to do of that crime, of that accusation of holding people's feet to the fire,

it's like, I don't give up. You don't let anything slide.

“And that's why it's so much more fun when you can watch other people”

under that pressure. >> I self-impose it, John. I don't know about you, but I self-impose a pressure. I define winning, and I tell the client, as doing everything that I possibly can to get the best possible outcome.

Well, what that means is there's a lot of stuff I got to do. I mean, everything, if I'm not going to pull out the stick at the end and hit myself over the head, if I don't get the outcome, then I've got to do everything right the first time. As if I've been given an opportunity to go back and do it all over again,

if I didn't get the outcome that I wanted. And that's how I do it the first time. Well, that puts a lot of pressure, right? >> Well, it puts a lot of pressure for a number of reasons. Not the least of which is sometimes clients,

and this is a great segue into Tyler Robinson. We have to define win the same way. Of course, when we have a client that walks in with a big criminal problem,

a win is a dismissal, but a dismissal is not always legally feasible.

“So you have to redefine what it means to win,”

and make sure that the client's expectations are aligned, or now you're not just fighting for your client, you're fighting with your client, and there's nothing worse. >> How do you tell a Tyler Robinson hypothetically, by the way, for anyone who just joined us and has no idea who that is,

he's accused of murdering Charlie Kirk. >> Right. >> Okay, and his preliminary hearing is going on all week. We'll talk about whether it should go on for a full week, or whether it should take an hour or two, or 15 minutes.

And it's a probable cause hearing. It's not a trial. It's just to show whether a crime was probably committed, and he's probably the one who did it. It's a very low standard.

It's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, which is what's required to convict someone in criminal court. But how do you tell someone like this? Someone who has a case-like Tyler Robinson with seemingly overwhelming evidence, death penalty is on the table there?

How do you tell him that, listen, I'm going to be defining winning by doing everything I can to get the best possible outcome. But that may mean you get the death penalty. >> That's not exactly how you would phrase it.

I just think you have to manage expectations. Once you've had a chance to review the evidence, once you've had a chance to file the motions to suppress the evidence, to do what you're going to do to see what the package is really going to look like at the end of the day,

the the case that's going to be put before the jury, or the case that's put before the client, and you have to decide whether that client should plead to something, or not.

“I think you need to be able to say to a client with a straight face.”

I could do everything in my power. We're not going to get in a quiddle.

But here's what we can do.

Let's discuss. >> Wow. >> We try the Robinson's case. So where I'm getting with this is, I think a win for him is getting rid of the death penalty. Realistically.

Unless I'm wrong, unless there's a whole lot more that we don't know, but given what we do know right now, there seems to be plenty of evidence to circumstantially, convict him beyond a reasonable death. We're not a trial yet.

And if that's the case, a win would be, you get to live, tie the Robinson, you get to live. >> Yeah. And I don't disagree with you. I think that that is probably the best that they can hope for.

I've suggested it on a number of shows, including Megan's earlier today, and I got a lot of pushback from a lot of people. Many people, and I think including yourselves, well, why should they, you know, wave death?

>> Why? >> I would challenge you on that. There's no reason for the prosecution to wave the death penalty. I understand you have a difference of opinion tell us.

>> Well, hold on one second, so that I can minimize the hate me.

I'm still gonna get the nuts you're calling me. >> Are you really kidding me? >> But, oh, I asked my sister, how many calls she said about four? All yelling this next to it? >> Man you? >> Yeah.

And all I did last night on Chris Cuomo show was, and again, I made it clear. This is not Mark advocating that they wave the death penalty. This is me answering the question, the same question that Chris Cuomo asked me,

and the same question you're asking me, what would be the reasons for them to wave the death penalty? What advantage would there be to the prosecution? This is not Mark giving his opinion about why I think they should. That's separate.

No one's asking me that right now. You're asking me what would be the advantage of, first and foremost, closure. Not disclosure yet the kid. >> Well, disclosure yet the kid, okay.

>> Right, thank you.

“That's how we get that out of the family for everything.”

>> For the closure for everyone, meaning no more appeals, no more expense because it costs about six times more to execute someone than to keep in prison for life, contrary to what people think. It's actually more expensive because the appeals are,

and God forbid, it comes back on appeal for one little technicality, one question or thing that was done during jury selection, which is how a lot of cases are reversed, you'll wish that there had been some resolution. Third, the emotional toll for the family.

Megan dismissed it as, so what? So in 10 years, if you have to come back and do it all over again, so what? That is, that's rough. >> But what he wants to go through this all again?

You want closure. Also, you want to dismiss him. I don't want any more of Tyler Robinson. He doesn't need any more notoriety. You don't want copycat folks.

And every time you give him exposure, other people are saying, ooh, look at the attention he's getting. And these nut jobs are more apt to commit the crime. So all of that, he's gone. No issue on appeal.

He goes away and here's the final thing. Getting the death penalty is not guaranteed. Florida has since changed the law to allow for a few people to say,

“well, I think you should live, but if the majority are saying you should die,”

person can get death. In Utah, it still needs to be unanimous, which means all 12 must say he should die. If one person says, you know what? Okay, I agree that what he did was horrible. But I think it'd be worse for him to live his life in prison.

Or, you know what? This case is not as bad as some of the others of people get death. Or he said, God bless you to somebody once or he helped somebody across the street, or he's got mental illness, or he had a tough childhood, or whatever the reasons are, lack of priors,

whatever motivates someone to find someone for life. Then you're done. It's a failure of the prosecution, right? So all I'm saying is there are reasons why there should be that discussion given. And apparently Charlie Kirk's widow is not adamant about the death penalty.

So okay, the door is open to at least discuss it. Your thoughts, Jenna. So I agree in part with what you're saying. But and maybe I agree with what the analysis, but I don't agree on the way to get there.

Here's what I mean by that.

Okay, come on. So and again, we're going to go through actually on this show.

which is taking far too long, but I digress.

“So the thing that worries me about this case is because of what the way you”

taught handles it, if you don't have a unanimous verdict in the penalty phase. So let's say you get past the guilt phase, meaning at 12 jurors, find a guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of aggravated murder, which is the reason it's a death penalty case.

But you do have one hold out who has second thoughts.

I don't know, you know, he's only 23 or 25, whatever he is by the time this happens. And I can't do it in my conscience. Can't sentence him to death. So now he lives. So the message that that sends to future criminals, future copycats,

future defense attorneys who are handling these types of cases. This is a very highly controversial case is, well, don't worry about it. We'll just go to the mat and there's a good chance that one person, just one person, is going to have a change of heart and you're not going to be executed anyway. So if the prosecution felt that that was a real possibility,

I could understand then for them to talk turkey. But as I agree with you, it would have to be, we're wrapping this up.

There's going to be no appeal, we're never going to see you again.

You're not going to get a second chance at anything. We're going to close this case, never speak your name, then and only then in my opinion, what it makes sense. Unless, I mean, look, interesting, what's interesting to me. Utah has two means of execution, lethal injection,

firing squad, firing squad, I like it. I don't know who gets to choose, but if you're, I looked it up. If you're looking up, who choose is that? It only happens if you're either convicted for an offense where the firing squad was being used, which is not the case, or the drug companies can't deliver the lethal injection juice that's

needed to take them out. So he's going to get lethal injection if he's convicted.

“It should be up to the victim's family, and you should also have the option.”

I'm being facetious, but I would do it to hold the trigger. And how I appropriate poll in a case like this, but I find it interesting, because to me, that's a very, our, our cake form of execution, I suppose, but people, people have very strong

feelings about the death penalty and you never really know until those people go into that

jury room, what is going to be enough to tip the scales in favor of them voting for death? We saw it in the Parkland shooting, Marjorie Stolen Douglas when Nicholas Cruz went in and killed teachers and students, and what he did here, everybody thought death penalty. I think it was three jurors who said, no, life. So there's nothing guaranteed, right?

All right, let's talk about the evidence. Because yeah, and can we just also mention for viewers who may not know, because one of my pet peeves is when people call a preliminary hearing of preliminary trial. It's not a trial, but I could see where the mistake would be made in this case, because it is unusual to have a preliminary hearing, which is only a hearing to determine if there is probable cause

to hold this person over to answer to the charges. It, there, the evidence is more relaxed. You can have certain hearsay statements where you might not be able to do that in a trial. You don't need to present your entire case. You don't need to present your entire case.

You just need to meet by a reasonable suspicion of probable cause each element of the offenses that are charged. But that's it. You saved the, the big time for the trial. Don't you agree that could be done in like two hours where you just hate, hate, and hearsay

submissible, right? He looked at the, let's start with his confessions that he wrote to his, uh, his boyfriend, okay, uh, whatever. And, and, and, okay, and here's some video showing that he was on the scene, and we've got some DNA on the trigger.

Okay, done. Done enough, right? But isn't this about showing the public all the conspiracy theorists? Isn't this all about like the public? Isn't this all about showing them?

Look what we've got. I don't believe that's the sole purpose of the defense strategy here. I think it's more about setting up the appeal, uh, which is going to happen if he is convicted, even if he's not sentenced to death. And what I mean by that is every word that is uttered in this prelimph is going to be

taking down and recorded, right, forever.

“And then when you have to call these same witnesses again six months, a year, two years”

down the road to testify of trial, anything they said that is even remotely different today, then what they're going to testify to act trial is going to be fodder for attack. And that's going to be fodder for the appeal. So I think the strategy is first that, then maybe, I don't know, whatever message they're trying

All right, so one of the arguments that's going to be that would have been made, except for stock number five, which we're going to plan just a moment, would be he wasn't even on campus. He didn't even go there. His DNA is on the right. Right, it's not him, he's being framed like the Mona Lisa.

But let's run, it's a little long, but we'll we'll give some analysis and put it into context. Let's run that now. Okay. What we're seeing here is, that's the vehicle, as believed to be on to Mr.

“So we're hearing the testimony from the lead agent, I think this is the lead agent,”

describing what we're seeing on the video.

And he goes into, you know, well, first we see him in the parking lot of the school, right?

The vehicle belongs to Mr. Robinson. Information that was provided, regards to driver slice and department of the vehicle records of it. Yeah, that fancy European accent is the lead agent, right? Yeah, hall, I think.

Yeah, where is he from? The shape of the vehicle is very distinct, but predominantly the wheels were very distinctive on this. He sounds more believable than accent, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

The driver of the vehicle exits the vehicle and then walks on foot to exit the parking garage. Yeah. So we know what is the vehicle? I don't think, hey, you got to have a car. I think it'll be a good one.

Right. Right. And then we went to take a seat. That's nice. Yes. It was that.

Believe that's Tyler Robinson.

Where is he going for that?

“I mean, I think the tank garage is good.”

He goes from there into the campus and I think it goes to the quad area of the campus. That time, he makes contact with some representatives from TPUSA. Right. Now he's talking to the enemy. So the end of the campus is good place to refer to too.

So he goes about the campus, visits the amphitheater area, the courtyard of the quad. Correct. And then what do we see here now? He returns on foot back to the same vehicle and what time is he returning? What are you compelling, Janna?

Is this about 9.25 a.m. This is a morning of the shooting. It hasn't happened yet. I don't think. Right.

So he gets down. He's talking it now. Is he worse as gun?

I want to know at this point.

Like, did he? Is he getting the gun now? He's going to go hide it someplace or did he previously hide it? I'm not really sure. I don't know the context of this.

I know he does see at some point. I saw the testimony live where he then goes into the woods and he puts the bag down. Like, it's all connected. They've got it. It's just off of campus drive.

A short walk from the Ampithia. What do we see now? That's the vehicle exiting with Mr. Robinson driving the vehicle. You know, like exiting. You would train him to say something different.

He's leaving the garage. I think that's good enough. All right, that's good. I think people get a taste of what we're dealing with. So I want people to get a flavor.

This goes on and on and on and on. I watched it live, right? It's compelling. You every move is detailed pretty well. Well, yes, I mean, this was so thoroughly planned.

I mean, they talked about a sniper pad on the roof. Like, he knew exactly where he was going to put himself. Where to put the gun, I think at some point he had like put the gun someplace. So he could retrieve it once he got on campus and then he hid it. So he could go back and get it that he thinks is his downfall because apparently that didn't happen.

Or at some point he made that mistake, which ironically mark. I think we will find out later and text messages.

“Here's, here's the thing that bothers me.”

He laid out his plan, his mistakes, why he was doing it. The whole Shabbang in a text exchange with his gay furry lover. What is his name? Lance, I can't remember his name. But for right now, gay furry lover, I like that. Gay furry lover.

Yeah. And he lays it out. You know how some people try to throw others off the track. He was throwing himself on the track. Correct.

With this text exchange, to me, when you're going to think about how opposite this is, if you're going to plant and plan to get into this campus, get a gun that nobody sees. You get on a roof, commit an assassination, get off the roof, get your gun, get the hell out of there. You're going to memorialize it in a very graphic text exchange that you know digitally.

We leave a footprint that cannot be erased. And this is what this guy does. I can't, that's the guy I can't wrap my mind around. You're good. I could see you arguing that, like in closing arguments on his behalf. It's too good, you know.

The breath reading is a point three, three. No one could even stand at that level. There's no way that machine was working accurately. In this case, there's no way that confession is real.

Has to be manufactured. The police did it, yes?

Well, that's probably what we're going to hear at some point.

Not in this stage, not in the preliminary hearing, but at trial, perhaps. And that's, we had talked earlier when we were talking with Megan on a different show on her show. That if you do have people out there who believe in the conspiracy theories. To me, that whole text exchange is the chum that they can sink their teeth into, because it's just so odd.

Why would you do that? Why wouldn't you, Jeff, you want to get away with murder. You don't text your furry lover. You go home to your furry lover. And you whisper everything you did into his ear.

“Now, that still doesn't protect you because he could turn on you, right?”

But at least you don't have a digital memorialization.

And to those conversely, like myself, who don't believe in conspiracy theories as it

released to this case that they didn't pick this guy out and choose to sacrifice him at the expense of letting the real killer go free, I look at his text. For whatever reason, he put everything in there as clear as an admission confession. And I can sleep at night, knowing that the person who did this is behind bars right now. And that's the other thing, if we can go back to, we'll go back to.

Let's talk about the penalty phase, even though we're, well, ahead of that. Yes. The other thing that they did show, but the public didn't get to see. And our good friend Phil Holloway, I think, was upset by this. And maybe you saw it online when it happened or around the time it happened.

Is the graphic video of Charlie Kirk getting assassinated? That was available.

And it's, it's horrible to watch.

Whoever is picked in this jury will see that. And I promise you, they will see it more than once. They will probably see it several times. Personally, I think a person could suffer post-traumatic stress from having to witness that.

“And that's why jury selection is going to have to be very, very effective.”

Me, I still think about it. I don't, I don't want to see it again. I saw it once and I said, oh my god, it's gruesome. This is one of those things, Mark. Like, I remember where I was when the Challenger blew up.

I remember where I was when I heard the Charlie Kirk got shot. I mean, you know, and this is just one of those things that stick with you. But imagine 12 people seeing that visual probably a few times with that in their head. And with all the circumstantial evidence that will also come out at the trial. Getting one person to not believe this man should be put to death,

given just the evidence, not just not something personal about him that might resonate. I think it's going to be tough because if you can't put him to death, calculating this, shooting somebody, all those people. So full-blooded. Who can you?

“Well, that's what everybody says about every case in jury's find ways to vote in favor.”

You know, you were talking about how graphic the video is. We have a video of the salt one, the judge reacting to seeing the shooting himself. Let's take a look at that. That's not one. So let's go ahead and play this video only on the monitors. And if they're sound associated with it,

the sound to be played as well. You may proceed. All right, so to your point, John, I mean, even the judge, I'm sure who's human. I don't know if he had seen this before, but there's a reaction there. And if he's human and any jurors are human, they're going to feel for how graphic this is.

Yeah, it was just horrific. I remember our good friend again, our good friend Phil, and I had seen it online and I thought it was like, you know, when something is so terrible, you say yourself, that's got to be fake. It's got to be fake. This got to be AI. I was hoping that's what it was.

And then it turned out that that it wasn't. So yeah, all right. So we're going to be talking about this case. On and on, I'm sure you with five appearances a day. I don't love to wear makeup as much as you. So you sure. Yeah, I do. I do. That's true.

So we'll continue to cover this. We're going to listen. Newsflash, he's going to find probable cause. The judge is going to find probable cause. It's a very low standard. Probably on a reasonable doubt is whether the jury needs to find.

This is going to go to a trial. So spoiler alert. Okay. All right. Coming up, we have a very special guest on positively legal. It was not easy to secure her presence, but she's here. She's in the green room and we're going to ask her whatever question we want. She is a very well-known individual stick around.

Welcome back to positively legal.

The moment we've all been waiting for, she puts the M.K. in M.K. True Grime. Megan Kelly is our featured fantastic guest. But before we just converse with her, Mark, please tell Megan what's about to happen to her. Well, to her, I'd like to think it's for her. This is for her benefit. She'll enjoy it.

She's done tons of interviews. Let's have some fun, okay? And since we're trial lawyers Megan, John and I regularly conduct jury selection also known as Vodier, which is French for

to speak the truth. So we'd like to have you the only one on our Vodier panel.

“And we'd ask that you, the only rule is you have to speak the truth.”

So we have our jury questions. I don't know what John is going to ask you. I have my jury questions. And we're going to ask them to you. And you're going to have to answer them. Is that okay? I deny everything in demand proof. John, I kick it off. Let's go. Let's go.

jury selection begins. Go, Megan. I'm going to kick it off with a bang. No pun intended. Megan Kelly. Who is this going?

Oh, it's going. This is John. Okay.

Go ahead. Megan Kelly, who is your hall pass? No hall pass. No, doesn't exist.

“Don't believe in it. Think it's bullshit. It would be mad if Doug named somebody.”

It's all Doug. Run in the hall in the classrooms in the gymnasium everywhere. That's fair. Good safe answer. Great answer. This is what we're going to expect from her. Okay. What's a personality trait, Megan, that helped make you successful, but occasionally drives your family crazy. Oh, um, I really enjoy being right. If you ever watch modern family, Claire has got like an issue with being right.

It takes it like to an extreme. She'll go find grocery store video tape to prove that things went down in the store the way she said and not the way her husband said. I've got a touch of that in me, which serves me well as a journalist, but can be an annoying personality trait. So sometimes I have to check it at home remembering. You can't, you can't win if the people you love most are losing. So there's a line.

Got it. I like that. I like that quote. Okay. If we looked at your Amazon purchase history from the last six months, what purchase would surprise us most? Oh, God. You'd be shocked that what's on there. It's like, um, abling in costume, Christopher Columbus costume, all the stuff that I had to buy for this 4th of July party. I just threw, which is just so weird. It was such weird shit because it was like a Susan B. Anthony, you know, stuff for jet,

dress. Like it's so weird and random, but that's my life. It's like stuff like that. And then I don't know random books and school supplies. It's, I'm not an exciting person. I know it was on. Got it. All right. So when have you had a celebrity encounter where you were actually star-struck? Robert Redford came on my NBC show and I mean, I don't know a woman who is part of Gen X who does, you know, he's past now, but like who doesn't just look at any version of

“Robert Redford and see Hubble from the way we were. It's like, Donna, I think we got her home. That's”

their whole path. No, no. See, we backdoored it. I just, you know, it's Robert Redford. He's like a genuine star and we grew up with like the hair and the trench coat and that was, he was great. No. Oh, yeah. How was he? Was he like down to earth or was he, did you like him as a person? I loved him. I thought he was totally charming. He actually wrote me a nice little note. You won't be surprised. He was a Democrat and he loved my debate with Trump. Republicans hated it,

but the Democrats loved it. And he sent me a really nice note after that debate. So I was like, oh, well, I can't believe Robert Redford might be a fan. Like, is that possible? It wasn't really possible. He just liked that debate. But then he came on my show and he was once again a total gentleman. And the backstory of this whole thing just quickly is he came on with Jane Fonda with whom he was starring in a movie about aging and like getting it on while you're getting old. And

she was so inappropriate. It was like dying to talk about their sex scenes to the point where his

him so uncomfortable. So I tried after a commercial break to like get her off of the constant talk of her fake sex scenes with Robert Redford by raising the issue of her plastic surgery, which didn't

“go well for me. Oh, I remember that. She kind of attacked a little bit. Jane, I never liked her.”

Even though she talked about it everywhere, everywhere, but not with me. Yeah, I try to keep what you're going. Speak the true thing, Kelly. Go ahead. Okay. All right. So here's one. Here's one. If you had remained a practicing lawyer after we got your head examined, where would you be working today? I think I'd still be a Jones day. I loved my time there. I spent the vast majority of my legal career with that firm. And they were so, so good to me.

I loved them so much. The people were amazing. To the point where when I decided I wanted to try

TV, I went to the head of the general lit department where I was working. And I said, I really, I need to try this, Tim. And he said, Meg, he goes, I don't like it. He said, this feels like a trial

“separation. And those usually lead to divorce. He said, but if you feel you must, to will support you,”

you know, you do it, and we'll, we'll ruin you on. So that's how busy and they were just so sweet. What's what specific kind of cases were you handling or was it just general in employment, bankruptcy, and I trust, you know, anything. Yeah, I did some of the RG Reynolds work that they had as some product liability, but not much. But yeah, no, I tried a couple of big cases in federal courts across the country. One kept me in Davenport, Iowa for three months. No, we were

working for it. Yeah, Bridgestone Firestone was my client. So at my mailbox at the time, I had, I used to like Oprah back then, Oprah, Oprah Magazine, and modern tire dealer. It was coming to my, to my home. Yeah. Megan, Megan, you're most irrational pet peeve. I don't know. I'm so reasonable. I don't know. I guess I have a fair amount of OCD in me. And so like, if you're watching a clock with the, the second son it, you know, and you've got like it's

it's 1259, 56, 57, 58, and somebody turns it. Like it's on a TV, right before it gets to one. Oh, oh, like I, I have like a seizure. I really can't handle that. So that would be one. Oh, interesting. This is good information if we ever want to torture Megan. That's good. Yeah. Okay. If you were on death row, what would be your last meal? Oh, yeah. That's easy. Big mama's pizza from the upper west side, like 85th and Amsterdam, just cheese. That's all.

And nothing else on it. Finn regular large slices. Finn classic New York pizza, the best. I lived in Chicago. No, friends to my Chicago friends, but there's just no contest between Chicago, a deep dish in New York, New York wins every day the week. It's, they say it's the water that they use to make the pizza and the bagels that make them so extraordinary. But that big mama's pizza. I got to see if Dave Portner has ever reviewed them because he goes in, he only has one bite of

these pieces. Right. I, I, I, I, it's a piece of everyone over New York. I live there for 17 years. I've

never tasted one that holds a candle to big mama's upper west side. Now, now, this is getting too

“personally. Tell me to back off. What are you flaking a little bit of Parmesan cheese on that?”

Are you just going straight up? Real person. No. I put nothing on it. No. No. Absolutely nothing of flaking. I needed, right? No. You know, depending on my, sometimes I'm more maha than others, I might do a little stopping up of the extra grease with the napkin with one of the little square white napkins they give you. But probably not, probably not. Best piece of advice, don't get your husband has ever given to you. Oh. I don't know. That doesn't really like

give me like little like like lines that could be delivered. He's just always such a smart

sounding board. He's always so rational. I can't think of one in particular like a line. But he's, you know, he's generally, I would say generally the dug advice is if I'm struggling with an issue, he encourages me to trust myself, you know, to trust my instincts, not listen to the noise, you know, just follow my own ethical compass and tune out all the distractions. He believes

fuck up in which case you should listen to other people in that yourself. So let's say that's

generally his response to me. I like my therapist whose biggest line is always people are complicated.

This is not my question, but it's hard, you know, you handle everything that comes out you so well. And I imagine, do you sweat and not let us see it or something, you know, do you go home and be like, fuck, this is a horrible day or do you just just go through life like a princess? Or somewhere in between maybe? Yeah, there's definitely no, there's no princess in there at all, but no, I do get stressed, but it doesn't last because I'm good at processing stress, you know,

I'm good at processing bad things and putting them in the right box, especially around my news career. I mean, it's like the nasty pylons that happen. It's like, I'm generally able to say they're

“piling on MK the brand and not MK the person. You can't take it personally. You have to, you know,”

dust it off, move on and focus on what makes you happy, what what actually defines you, you know,

yourself, your spouse, your kids, your close friends. But that doesn't mean it's always easy.

So it would be a lie to be like, I'm one of those people who's just like, oh, I couldn't care less, you know, what people say, I do care sometimes. Like, I don't like it when it's a pylon from my side, the right, you know, where I live, that feels especially upsetting. The left I'm used to attacking me over the past 22 years, so it's kind of like they're back at it again. So that's taken some getting used to because that happened, you know, during the Trump dust up in 2015 and 16 and it happened again.

This past year around the Israel thing and then when I didn't back Trump on that Iran war,

“so it's unpleasant. But part of the job, you know, and as soon as you start feeling sorry for yourself”

as a human or using words like unfair, you become a loser. You're on the fast track to loser

dem. So I really try never to do it. What TV show Megan, are you embarrassed to reveal to us that

you have been watched? I really don't embarrass easily. I mean, I love real housewives. I just, I don't have a lot of time, but if I were sitting like at home, maybe you guys can relate to this. It's so rare when you get the house to yourself, you know, like you could actually just and and you have time for bad TV. But if I did, if those two things happened, I could definitely do a real housewives of New York or Beverly Hills. Those would be my favorites. I recently watched

the movie for the first time. I know what you did last summer. Followed by I know what you did last

“summer too, which is not not Oscar worthy, but fun. All right. Yeah. Yeah. That's about it.”

Nothing else going on. I like those. Okay. If you could have dinner with one scotist justice, living or dead, who would that be? We definitely be Scalia. You're an Arthur. Yeah. Yeah. So colorful, so entertaining. Kind of like, it might stress me out a little. I bet it would make me feel the way I feel when I talked to Dr. Laura where you're like, I idolized this person, but I'm also terrified by them, you know? And I'm not feeling it one time. No, I'm nice. Those people are

scary. But I met Scalia one time outside of Roenquist's funeral. And I was we were standing there at the steps of the church and he, he can't, he made a B-line for me, you guys. I was like, oh my god, this is it. You know, this is the moment he's going to look at me and say like, you're the one who truly gets it. You know, you're, you're the true fair and balanced at Fox News. I thank you for all the fair and balanced coverage. He comes right over to me and I'm like, oh my god,

this is in a meeting Scalia. And he hands me a camera and he goes, Miss, would you mind taking a photo of me and this gentleman? No, no, no, no, that's fantastic. Yeah. That happens. It was a little bit of crime kind. Yeah, that was good. A little bit. All right. Let's set the top of my list. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What do you wish people understood about you that they don't? That I'm, I'm really not partisan or ideological. I'm really, I always say just a soulless lawyer at heart in that I am open to arguments

and to facts. And I enjoy being persuaded that I'm wrong. I just feel like I'm thrilled to find out that I'm wrong because it means I'll be less wrong tomorrow than I was yesterday. And I pride myself I'm being a learned at all and not a know it all. So I'm pretty humble in what I know and what I don't

politician because they just want you to stand by the platform of the party and like push through the

platform and that's and it's not who I am at all. Like if there's new information proving that this, this piece of the platform was dumb, I'm very open to it, which is why people would hate

“me as a politician but I think helps make me a good journalist and like commentator because”

times change and we must change along with them. As a follow-up, do you not can see that you come into these issues that you claim to keep an open mind on leaning a little bit if not a lot to the right? Yeah, no, my sensibilities are right leaning for sure. But it's not ideological for me. Do you know what I mean? Like I'm not one of those people who's like, I mean, I think I am definitely more conservative than I am liberal. And I don't object if people say I'm conservative

and I would say mostly like I have conservative thinking. I'm not like really labeling myself that way often, but I like I'm not dug in, you know, it's like it's an issue by issue thing for me. I refuse to subscribe to a platform. It's why I'm not a registered Republican and I haven't been in 20 years. I laugh when people try to criticize me by calling me a rhino. I'm like, not even, I know. Not even an R at all. I guess again, I haven't pledged allegiance to either party

and I never will again. I've been a registered dam and a registered Republican and I will never

register with one of those parties again. I'm just, I don't believe in them. So I've been an registered independent and, you know, now it's all the rage. Now a bunch of people are and I'm happy to have them come over. But whenever I see the Republicans do stupid shit, I'm so thrilled I don't share their team jersey and a Democrat same. I could never, could never be a member of a party that's mutilating children the way they are. So it's, you know, I like where I am right here in the

independent lane and that's where I'll stay. A couple final questions, Jenna, go. Okay. Is there any recent criminal? Oh, it doesn't any case. It doesn't just have to be criminal.

“Where you believe the jury got it wrong. I mean, puff daddy. I think the diddy case it was not”

decided the right way. I think he actually was guilty of sex trafficking. There was plenty of evidence of it of the women feeling abused and threatened, Cassie and his other, you know, former girlfriends and I was very disappointed that jury did not convict him on that charge. But, you know, again, I'm humble enough to realize I wasn't in the courtroom for the entire thing and I don't really like second guessing juries like that. But I was shocked at that result. And I wish I

come out of a different way. All right, since this is positively legal, we went into a positive note, when are you most happiest, Megan? This is easy. Nice softball for you. I mean, for sure, with my family and I'm just kind of thinking like the setting. Honestly,

Doug and I always remark on this and it's true. If we can just get like the five of us around the

“dinner table and have time, you know, like no one's got a scurry off to go do homework or in my case,”

I do AM update in the evenings or, you know, with my kids sports or something. If we can just sit there, the five of us, those nights where no one's scurrying, we're just sitting or laughing, we're exchanging. There's nothing big that has to be discussed. It's just one of those nights where people are having clever retorts and we're hearing more about the kids days and they're like, that's the pinnacle. Like, that is just mana from heaven. I could do that every night of the week.

And you can get them to sit still. You can get them to sit still. Well, they're older now. Electronics. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They're not allowed to have electronics at the table. No, so that that would be no night. I have to say our kids, they like it, too. You know, there's 16, 15 and 12 now. And they're interested in hearing about each other's lives and everything that's happening in the family. And we have a good dynamic. Everybody's very quick to make fun of others and themselves,

which is, which makes for sparkly dinner conversation. I have to. And I don't want Mark to be the only one asking a positive question. Here's mine before we let you go. Red or white? Oh, white. White? I would have thought red. I would have thought red. Well, given the red studio, I can see it, but it's summer. We're talking about wine. Are we not? Yes, we are. Yes, we are. Okay. Listen. Be sure. Like, lingerie. I have a different answer.

But yeah, like a white effort vests and something with like a little, not not a full-on per seco or champagne, but like those whites that have a little effort vests to them in the summer

Yes, fresh. Not too fruity. Yes. That's what I would like for a, well, there we go.

And we don't want to be guilted about it. No. We learned all. We understand Megan now. We get it. This has been a real treat for us. I'm sure it's been a real treat for the viewers. Thank you, Megan Kelly, for everything you do for everyone, including us. We are going to let you go, but up next, Mark and I go off the record. Don't go anywhere. Love you, guys. See you. Love you, too. Thank you, guys. Welcome back to Positively Legal. We are about to go off the record. But before we do,

we got to talk about these two folks, a guy in a gal who did what to the Empire State Building Janna. They acted like Spider-Man. Something like that. Is it? Yeah, but Spider-Man doesn't get stripped of his liberty for doing it. These people did. They went on the tour and then they hid, and they popped out and they climbed all the way up. Sure, we've got some footage of that. Why don't we take a look at some of the footage from that and see what they were doing? Yeah, there they are.

Janna, have you ever done that? Is my first question? No. Not going to do that. Not going to jump

“out of an airplane, not going to bungee jump. Have you got on the tour? Did you at least do that?”

The Empire State Building? No, but I've been in the Empire State Building on the of times.

I didn't know unless you were a tourist. I always thought it was just a tourist trap. People actually

knew this is necessary. Of course, of course there is. And these two people went up there. We're talking about Angelina, Nicolao, and Ivan Kuznetsov. I'm sure I pronounced that correctly. They were arrested last week. They were dressed in all black. They had a banner and on that banner it read, "When the power of love beats the love of the world knows peace." What do you make of that on positively legal, isn't it? I think that's such crap. They were charged with burglary, Janna. Burglary,

reckless endangerment, criminal mischief. Yes. Wait, there's more. Criminal trespass, criminal tampering, disorderly conduct, and possession of burglary tool. But wasn't this a proposal? Am I on the wrong story? Yes, we've got no, no, this is it. We've got some footage of that. Let's look at that. Here they are on their way down. He got on his knee. I mean, how romantic. Maybe you go to a jury trial on this one, John, in New York when they maybe they get rid of their attorney who will

“talk about that. But then maybe you just argue. It's just romance. It's not burglary, right?”

How? Look at that. No? How positively stupid. We just, we just found our name for another segment on our positive. Positively stupid. Positively stupid. That has my vote. They're not going to, they, okay, the best outcome for them is the disorderly conduct. Why? Because of all of these, this long list, disorderly conduct in New York is just a violation. It's the same as a traffic ticket. It doesn't give you a criminal record. It's a $250 fine. Could you do 15 days in jail?

Yes. Has anybody ever done that? No. That would be the best possible outcome here. Because of what do you expect them to get? And again, keep in mind on the other side, you don't want copycats. You guys send a message that this is something serious, right? So there's got to be the punitive part. It's got to be some punishment. They didn't just trespass in the building, whatever. Right? So which is why they should get one of these misdemean. The burglary is a felony.

All right, maybe we could drop it down to a misdemeanor like the criminal mischief. Something that sends a message because you can't have this. But also here's one thing. I'm going to let me

push back on myself for a second. How does this happen? Like, if you can, how do you get how

do you crawl out of a little what? A little stairwell? Nobody's there? There's no security. Like, they can go out there. They could have dropped the bomb. You know what they say, Mark? You drop a penny off the top of the empire station. Yes. You're going to crush somebody's skull. Right. So we can't have that. We can't have that. We can't have that. No, we can't. Dwarfs. Right. Right. Right. So what does that mean? Do we have to? What does that mean for a penalty for them? What do we need to do here? Should

“should the building be thanking them? They, they, they pointed out glitches in their security?”

No. You know what they need? You know what's worse than jail? Probation. Probation for three years per se. Really? All right. By the way, here's their lawyer. Okay.

judge him. I will let the clip, sought ten, speak for itself. And I'm going to set it up this way. John, are you been in front of a camera before, you know, talking to have your client? Yeah, once or twice. And you get that sound bite kind of ready because you don't want to wing it, right? And you picture how people come across. Well, here was his not so ready for a prime time moment. It's a attorney Jason Krinski. Here we go. As far as what I've seen, you know, I'm sure you've all seen.

It was a message of love, right? And, you know, that's a, that's a nice thing. Now, but on the other hand, you know, the law is a law, right? So we're going to deal with this case, but I will say, you know, it's nice to have somebody wearing a black mask doing a message of peace instead of a, you know, a message of destruction and war. Okay. All right. I don't disagree with some of the things he said. Maybe the, the manner in which he said it, but you know, you know, it was a straight face.

He couldn't say it was just over the wall over the place. All right. He's doing the best he can. Good luck with the case, Jason. All right. You ready to go off the record? I sure am. Okay.

Why don't you, you want to start? I think I started last week. We'll, we'll hear you out first.

Let's hear you rant. Okay. All right. I'm running to rant. Let's go. Let's go off the record with John us, Billboard. Sammy Hagar couldn't drive 55 and looks like Paul Pelosi can't drive it off. Here we go again. Folks in 2022, the then 82 year old Paul Pelosi has been of Nancy. Crash his too hot for pop's push into a Jeep injuring the driver. At the time, his BAC was over the legal limit. Fast forward to the now 86 year old and he's at it again. This time

without the booze on board, allegedly. He didn't injure anyone, thankfully. Instead, he hit a

“parked car. He stopped because that's what happens when there's 5,000 pounds of Tesla on your front”

bumper. But then he put the pedal to the metal. Until the metal couldn't move anymore, rendering Pelosi stranded on the side of the road and his newly crashed whip. Police rolled up. Notice the damage and asked, "Gramps some questions" to which Pelosi responded that he knew he hit something, but didn't know what it was. It was another car, Paul. It wasn't a traffic cone garbage can or mailbox. It was a freaking car. I mean, who taught this guy had a drive? Joe Biden?

The first time Paul Pelosi crashed his car, at least he had an excuse. He was drunk.

Sidebar. I was going to say he was hammered and then I thought too soon. But this time, according to police, he had no alcohol in his system. And in an odd sense, this is worse. Hear me out. When a person consumes enough alcohol, their motor skills, vision and judgment are impaired.

“While you should never drink to impairment and then drive, at least in Pelosi's 2022 accident,”

there was a clear cause and effect. Assuming he was not impaired this time by any substance, for example, drugs would not be detected by a Brett sensor. One must ask, "What is the cause of this effect?" How do you crash into a car without knowing you crashed into a car? Is being 86 cognitively speaking, akin to being drunk all the time? Sidebar. When I'm 86, I'm going to be drunk all the time. I'm happy to hear the California DMV is stepping in,

but truth is there are plenty of old folks out there with valid driver's licenses and the reflexes of Mr. Magu. What do we do about them as a society to keep them safe yet sufficiently independent to live out their golden years without mowing anyone down on the way to Bingo? Well, I don't have the answer. I am reminded that the journey of 1,000 miles begins with the

first step, taking Paul Pelosi off the road sounds like a good first step to me.

“Nicely done as always, Gianna. Thank you for your rant. I appreciate now. Do you feel any better?”

Do you feel positively legal? Do you get off your chest? I feel yes. Much better, yeah. You can't keep the secrets in. They'll kill you. Thank you for letting that out. All right, my turn. Can we please have an honest discussion about fireworks? It's time to ban them. We must ban them. They're beautiful. They're entertaining, but at what cost? Every single year, millions of dogs like mine are absolutely tortured by fireworks.

They shake uncontrollably. They hide under the beds. They get anxiety. They don't eat.

“Veteranarians will tell you that the anxiety often lingers for days, leading to physical”

problems like digestive issues, loss of appetite, exhaustion, stress, are two golden doodles, lovingly named peace and quiet. Yes, those are actually their names, peace and quiet. They're going through those post-july-fourth issues right now. They're a mess. Then they're the injuries. Don't get me started with the injuries. Every fourth of July,

“it's the same story. Someone loses a hand. They lose an eye. Someone's house kisses on fire.”

Somebody dies. The injuries are so horrific that they make national news every year. And then we act shocked. Then we repeat the same thing every year. And let's not forget the environmental impact. The damage is colossal. The evidence proves it and all for just a few minutes of entertainment. There are incredible alternatives. For example, you got drone light shows, laser displays, synchronized light productions. They all create spectacular celebrations.

Without the harm. Just because something has always been done doesn't mean it should continue.

Fireworks may be pretty, but the price that we pay is far too high. It's time now to let this tradition go. Mark, I'm signing the petition. Yes. Yes. That was great. I wish I had thought of

“it. I love the idea. It'll never happen. Does it mess up your cats in anyway? Does it affect cats?”

Not that I'm advocating on behalf of cats. Cats don't give a shit about anything. They don't mark. They're not like dogs. No, they're a whole different animal literally and figuratively. But I love that idea. I am with you. Well done. Enough. Enough. We have alternatives. Okay, you heard me. Janna, thank you for another great week. This is special because we're going to go two weeks without doing this because there's a best of next week. So we're off for like a week.

But so this was very special. I love today as always and so grateful to spend time with you.

And you as well. And we both got to spend time with the one the only Megan Kelly and that was special as well. Yeah. No, thank you Megan for sitting in with us and answering our questions for today. And listen, we hope that you all have a wonderful week and we wish you the very best. We'll see you next time on positively legal. Take care.