Lindsay Clancy’s Family Testifies on Her Declining Mental State and Luigi Mangione’s Open Plea

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Positively Legal on Mark Eiglarge. And my bio says that I'm a veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, adjunct law professor, author, I wrote a book about happiness, and I'm happy to be here with Janna Spielbore, tell us who you are. Well, you just did, I'm Janna Spielbore, I'm also an attorney founder of my law firm, Janna Spielbore a lot.

Mm, great name, yeah. We have a vote load of legal stuff. Oh, I'm excited to be with you, Janna, to talk to all those things. So, biggest shocker of last week was Luigi Manjoni, who ended up pleading guilty in the federal case. And now his state case, which is supposed to go to trial September 8th,

“I believe, is delayed. Maybe forever, we are going to bring you the latest on that.”

And we're going to talk about Lindsey Clancy. In case you've been living under a rock, this is a woman who killed her three precious offspring. Is she a monster murderer or is she not guilty by reason of insanity? We're going to talk about the latest. I am fascinated with this

case, Janna. But first, yeah, it's happy hour. Yeah, okay, cure the music. Okay, there is none.

Okay, bring out the drinks. You got anything? No, but I do have questions. I guess something. All right. So, okay, you know how we're both lawyers. Yes, one of the graduations for passing the bar, Janna. One of the maybe less than flattering Nick names for lawyers. Yes. Is shark. Right? Yes, yes. So, I have to ask you something. I have to ask you something. I don't know if you're posing for a new advertisement, you know, call Mark Eiglash or as

as your fans call you are Glash. - Yeah, whatever. - Good evening. - Good evening. - Good evening. - Good evening. - Is that my last name? - It just needs.

- Go on. - Yeah. - Come on, because you're not exactly posing with a shark that is about the same height as you.

“But I ran into some pictures of you with a very handsome young man.”

- Yes. - And they're very seemingly to me.

- Large, shark. Please explain yourself. - Mr. - Okay. - I will. - I'm an open book young lady. - Okay. - Okay. So that was just a few days ago.

My little brother, Abel, from the Big Brother Little Brother program. I've been with him for a few years. He's been a senior year of high school. Love that kid. We've gone deep sea fishing a few times.

And here we are, deep sea fishing Sunday morning. And that's off the coast of Fort Lauderdale on a big 50 foot yacht. And we caught some stuff, including he brought in a six foot, I was told by our drunk captain,

a bull and nurse shark. And it took a lot to reel that thing in. And he brought it in and we let it loose. But not before we took some photos with the shark. Yeah, picture a big, beautiful nurse shark.

But again, what was unusual was where I was 12 hours earlier, Jonah. And again, this is self-deprecating.

“I don't mind sharing, but that's what I wanted to share”

with you what happened to me. Don't 12 hours before you and your little brother caught a six foot bull nurse shark, not bull nose. Bull nurse, you were hospitalized. Yes, I understand.

It doesn't sound like you really care. No, I do. I feel like I have the emotion there. Wait, hold on. Hold on.

Is that your arm? That is my arm. That is in front of my house. My wife had called 911. I'll explain why.

But yes, that is me being taken to the hospital. I did not want to go to the hospital in this. You're in an ambulance, Mark? I know 911, my wife called. There's a recording that's now public with me whinsing

in pain in the background. You want to know how and why that happened to me. Did she call to say the antifreeze in the pudding didn't work? Help.

No, that was two weeks ago. I'm glad you didn't ask about that.

OK, so here's what happened.

I played my usual pickle ball. That's me, by the way, in the hospital. So I go from 911 into the ambulance. This is the first time I'm now being seen by some of the nurses there.

And I think there's a photograph. That's me now in the emergency room bay with your phone. My little ET finger, phone, all along, right there I am.

Yes, they look pretty good.

I can get some damn makeup over here. Yeah, I'm shining. There's a guy coding. And I'm like, can I get some makeup? I'm kidding.

That is not what I did. But all right, in all seriousness,

“I should probably only play in this heat.”

And in the South Florida heat, I should probably play maybe two hours of pickle ball. I'm like three and a half hours, four hours deep. It is reckless. I am 58 years old.

I'm not a kid anymore. But when I win, I stay on the court. I don't properly hydrate. I admit that. I have electrolytes, but I'm not drinking enough.

And I'm telling you, on my ride home, Janna. I was suffering from such dehydration that my limbs, I couldn't move my arm. I had to push my arm out. My legs were killing me.

I was screaming. I went straight home. I got home. I got into the pool. And I couldn't make myself happy.

And my wife said, I'm calling now. Oh, when I go, don't, I'll be okay. Got 10 minutes later. I'm like, fine, call them. And they needed to hook me to IVs and get fluids in me.

And I was there for most of the day. And I said, I'm not going to miss that fishing trip. And I went to the fishing trip. Yeah. That's it.

I don't know.

“Do you have come around yielding for any follow-up questions?”

I'm a schmuck. So I've ordered now more electrolytes and different things. And I'm going to change my behavior, because that wasn't fun. And when I get the bills, I'm really going to be changing my behavior. Yeah.

Yeah. You drank electrolytes, did you? And you're okay now, Mark. Okay. I'm fine.

What about you? Anything eventful happen? We want to say something. I moved to couch by myself. What?

And an entire piece of furniture that the instruction said requires two people by myself. I did that in the breeze in heat. I didn't have to call 911 so they could give me a little bit of water. Wow. God.

You think that all by your loan some hard. That. Wow. That's so nice. And you let me talk about my little 911 visit you, like a hero moving furniture

by yourself. I'm still. Girl. Wow. You and I have.

You went to the hospital so they could give you a little drinky winky, a little drinky winky mark. Wow. Okay. Oh, we were going to talk about Luigi.

I don't want to focus. I'm left. You know what? The best part of this story. The best.

You did look damn good for being on your death bed. All right. Well. That was after they pumped me with fluids. And I made a few trips to the toilet.

Yeah. Next time, you know, only played pickle ball for like an hour and forty five minutes. You'll be okay. Girl, I warm up for that long. Come on.

Let's move along. Luigi, man, Gianni, anyone who doesn't know he's the guy. It's not even allegedly anymore, Gianni, we would want to say allegedly. We can we can cut down on the airtime. We could just say the murderer, the guy who admitted to stalking healthcare, CEO, Ryan

Thompson. Yeah. That he, he pled in federal court to two stalking charges, resulting in death. And he entered what we call an open plea. I want people to understand what this isn't.

It isn't. Most people familiar with state court, please, where you work something out with a prosecutor. Right. And then you pretty much get the judge to ratify it, explain that, Gianni, and the distinction in federal court.

So most of the time, when somebody's pleading guilty to anything, they don't do so.

First of all, they don't do so blind.

And they don't do what we call a plea to the sheet, meaning that in this case, that's essentially a plea to the sheet, slash open plea, and that there is no predetermined sentence that is going to apply to this particular plea deal. It is literally going to be up to the judge where, of course, you're going to have the prosecution stating to the judge and giving reasons why they should give them the

max. And you're going to have the opposite, of course, by his defense attorneys, which have done a masterful job for him, even though I hate this guy. Can I just, I'm going to, I hate this guy. I just want.

Why do you hate him? Why do you hate him? I hate him. What's there to hate, Gianni? I have defend it.

I feel he killed someone in cold blood.

“Is that really something you're going to hold against him, Gianni?”

That's sarcasm. It's safe on me. I know. And it's not even that because I have defended the worst of the worst. What turns this for me is, and it's not, I guess it's not even his fault.

What makes him so hateful to me is his fan club. Just have a little humility.

Just you oft a father of two in cold blood to send some sort of message that was never

going to get sent, you know, you've got a problem with our health care system.

You do all the other stuff.

“But you killed somebody and then you became some sort of weird rock star.”

Do you hate him for that? Or you hate his people for that? Or ons, or out there. Protesting. Excellent point, right?

Maybe it's not him. Although he does seem to revel in it. And I just want to smash his face into the sidewalk. All right.

I'm going to be like Smurks at the camera.

All right. We've got your feelings on it. But let's back up just a little bit. So people understand legally what happened. This is positively legal.

And you're positively going off the rails. Yeah. He didn't create the fan club. I don't like these people either.

“I think that they should focus on kids who are hungry and do something worthwhile.”

Not this guy. But anyway, the mask has come off. This presumption of innocence. Oh, maybe he didn't do it. That's bullshit.

He admitted in federal court because in federal court. I have a factual recitation that he walked down a sidewalk in Manhattan in December of 2024. He knew Brian would be there. And he executed him after he stalked him for like, you know, quite some time. Okay.

And he did explain to the judge how he experienced. He meaning manjoni the stalker slash murderer that he had severe back pain. And he had such obstacles with the healthcare industry that he just didn't want anyone going through similar experiences.

“So I think he thinks he wears the white hat doesn't he, Jenna?”

I don't even believe for a minute that his so-called excuse is that he had back pain and couldn't get a million other people mark.

Can't get the MRIs can't get the testing can't get the procedures fight fight fight fight your doctor has to appeal. You can't even get a doctor's appointment if you're not absolutely dying from dehydration unless you make an appointment three months ahead of time. Like I don't you're not buying as motive you think that there was some other reason in the mode of doesn't even matter. You know the guy the best part and maybe you're getting to this but the worst part I should say we all thought when we saw the video because media can't show the whole thing that he came up behind Brian Thompson.

We saw clearly six claps in the morning in front of the hill not far from what we both been nearby. The shot him in the back but then according to his allocation he also shot him in the front. Oh, I don't think I knew that. Yeah. Oh, shot him in the back and then Brian Thompson like swung around whether it was just from the physicality of it or you know he was still alive he's swung around and he shot him in the front.

Using a 3D printer that he made before he went to go to New York and a silencer and the magazine okay his intent he admitted in federal court when he went to New York. Was to shoot and kill united healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. So that is no longer in dispute. No puppet all you supporters who claim he's being framed like the Mona Lisa enough already. Let's go to sought number one with this is his attorneys. And they talk about how he's being treated unfairly. I want to get your thoughts on this.

With today's guilty plea Mr. Mancioni has accepted full responsibility for the death of Brian Thompson arising from the events of December 4th 2024 outside of the United healthcare investor conference here in midtown Manhattan. Despite this being a single isolated event Mr. Mancioni has been unfairly treated since the outset in every way and has successfully fought off terrorism charges and the death penalty while also fighting at the same time. Two simultaneous prosecutions in two jurisdictions who are trying to punish him twice for the exact conduct.

He's been treated differently from every other defended charged with this defense in New York. However, thankfully New York law does not allow this. New York law does not permit a person to be prosecuted and punished twice for the exact same crime under a statute that governs successive prosecutions. It's also known as the double jeopardy law. Today's guilty plea triggers the statute and we just filed our motion and state court explaining why the state charges must be dismissed under New York's double jeopardy protections.

All right, John, right out of the gate. Is he being treated unfairly, John. And that's another thing that pissed me off. You had me at he's accepted responsibility for killing notice. It's not murder. That's not what he pled to for killing Brian Thompson.

And because the double jeopardy, we've already filed our motion in New York state court.

Do not try to sell to the nonfan club that this man is being treated unfairly because this man is not pushing up daisies like his goddamn victim is okay. So he hasn't been treated unfairly. He didn't have probably didn't pay a dime for his legal defense. Why?

“Because it was a go fund me to don't get me started on that.”

I don't know, like, 1.5 million dollars. So he's going to he's going to he's going to probably assuming this goes as planned, meaning there is no more state court state case. Although we don't know that yet. The motion has not been ruled on yet. We need to talk about that. He's going to spend his time. He's going to spend his time probably in a federal prison instead of a New York state permanent corrections. Yeah, let's talk about that though. Let's talk for the guy. All right. But let's talk about what legally is going to happen procedurally, okay, because people don't fully understand.

First, they have already filed a motion alleging because he pled guilty in federal court.

You can no longer prosecute him in state court in New York because of double jeopardy. He pled guilty convicted now. Do you believe that they will prevail in state court. One side of the argument is it involves the same crime. The other side of it is it's a separate jurisdiction and the elements that apply to the crime that he's being prosecuted for in New York state court is different than the stalking charge that he pled to in federal court. Take out your crystal ball. What do you think? And that's the argument. You don't need a crystal ball for this. You need an exacto knife. And here's one because because the argument is so the New York double jeopardy statute does have some exceptions and one of them that you just pointed out is well, if the crime involves even one different element than the federal charge that you can get around the New York double.

“So you think you think denied. You don't think this doesn't work. But I don't think denied. I think that the argument is stronger. So because this happened from the same transaction, right?”

This is two separate things. This is Luigi Mangeoni shooting somebody twice on a busy New York city street, right? It's the same set of facts.

Right. I think the New York court will air on the side of ruling that double jeopardy does apply. Wow. And the appellate court will support that because let me tell you something. Let me tell you what you're saying here. This is unbelievable because that would mean all right. State court case goes by by. Right. The federal arena he could and he would have gotten life in in state court, right? I mean he's now guilty of of the charges life. But in federal court, they're the federal sentencing guidelines. And he's looking at 24 to 30 years pursuant to the guidelines.

Okay. You do about 85% of your time at most in federal court. And quite frankly, there's ways that he can get that down even even more. And the judge can depart upward if the judge wants to judge can go downward also. We don't know what the judge can do, but they have a much better shot part in the pun in federal court than they do in state court. So my goodness, he could get out in a couple of decades. And I don't know that I'd feel safe with him out on the street, John. Yeah, and that is probably part of the plan. Like I said, his attorneys have done a great job, but also think about this. Let's say he does. Let's say he gets out in 20 years, right? Just hypothetically.

Okay. What do you do? That's not enough. That's not enough. Sorry. I don't like the sorry. I know it's hypothetical. That is not enough time. But what he did. It's not enough. So then you got a guy who will be out on the street. I don't know what is he do for a living like then might then he's on what welfare. My tax dollars have to pay for this guy to like you can't get a who hires Luigi Manjoni in 20 years when he's 48, which would ordinarily be kind of like the prime of your life. But for the fact that you often, but like who in the right mind, but I just don't. It doesn't make any sense. So there's another sought though. There's another sought that I want to because we were talking about just before the fan clubs who are actually who I hate almost as much.

Yeah, let's go to that. Can we? Because here's, here's their mindset. So can you place that to please my reactions in court? Reliefs, I guess, to no longer have to fight that battle is satisfying and relieving.

“Do you care about what Luigi is putting Brian Thompson's family through?”

What about those families that he? Because the piss policy got denied home like health care. I'm empathetic. I feel really bad that somebody had to lose their life. I feel bad for the Thompson family.

They taught me that, but negates the first part of the sentence. Yeah, I feel bad, but. But, and then if you say, however, that's just but with a bow tie, you know, you're negating the first part of the sentence. And so there is no compassion by these supporters.

“And John and I I think both agree. That's reprehensible. Yes. Yes. One life is worth thousands. This one this idiot said one life is worth thousands. No, it is not.”

Okay. So Lindsey Clancy. I'm very excited to talk about that in the next block.

There were some compelling witnesses today. And again, we're the day before this is released. So Tuesday, the defense is putting on so far some major witnesses. We've been waiting for this. And we're going to talk about it and see how it helps both sides in just a moment. [Music] Welcome back to positively legal. The Lindsey Clancy murder trial is in its fourth week mark.

“And at this time, at this time, because it's one of this case, I can back and forth back and forth. How do you think this trial is shaking out?”

Well, the state rested their case recently. 70 witnesses. She's accused of killing her three children ages five, three and seven months. Yeah. The take away so far from the state's case. And certainly now layering that information from the defenses witnesses. She was the perfect mother except for the remerters, you know. But before that, I mean, she loved her kids. Everyone is saying that love, love, love. But then because of postpartum psychosis that defenses are going, she began a downward spiral.

She reached out our hand. We had a witness today. Talk about she was begging for help. And she wasn't getting the help that she needed tons of medication. Wasn't even able to qualify for certain programs because she was over-medicated. I mean, this wasn't something made up after the fact by a defense lawyer to try to get someone off. She really did suffer from mental illness. The question, however, and I have kept an open mind, John, and I have not ruled on this is, I know she was suffering from mental illness.

The question is whether she legally knew right from wrong. And that is the very, very low standard. It's a low standard. I mean, one little, you know, act that suggests that she knew what she was doing was wrong. That's it. I don't know if you're a person's filled with people or Kuku for Coca-Cola Pops, but you know, what do you think so far, just generally, we get into the weeds in a moment of some of the witnesses who testified. Just where you at on this, John. So like I said, it's kind of like watching a tennis match. Sometimes I think the ball is in her court and sometimes I don't.

I always go back to those three precious children and here's if I'm in the jury box, here's what I can't wrap my mind around.

But I can't forgive. And when you say the second prong of the statute, basically, is that they have to prove that she either didn't know the difference between right and wrong or didn't control herself. This woman, scheduled her psychotic break. So unless somebody pushes me on, unless somebody can prove that sending her husband out of the house to a place that was a little farther to get take out and bullshit medicine unless somebody can prove to me that that wasn't a scheduled psychotic break so that she would have time to kill her three children that I'm not cry if she's bound guilty.

“Okay, that's fair. And you know what? That's what makes this case so fascinating. You literally have people that passionate about sides of the fence. Let's get into the weeds a little bit.”

There's been a lot of activity in court. I have actually been watching this. I've all my own cases, but I'm sitting here watching this like it's my own.

Salt five. This was testimony from I believe it was a fellow nurse that used to work with her. If I remember. Mark, yeah, listen to this. I thought this was an incredible moment.

A patient that arrived to the unit that had plans to harm herself. Well, she was pregnant. And we had a conversation when she was brand new. It was the summer that she had just started. And we had a conversation about mental health in pregnancy and postpartum. And I asked her if she had ever heard of the Andrea Yates case and she hadn't. And I explained that to her and she cried. And she said, how could a mother hurt her children?

Thank you. That's some good. That is some good stuff right there. Good for who? Good for who? Hold on for the defense. Listen to me. Oh, she knew nothing about the Andrea Yates case. This woman's saying that she brought up about this woman. This is way before she harmed her kids. She brought up about hypothetical to her about this woman who killed her kids and she was saying that is horrible for a mother to do that. If further shows how harming her children was the last thing she would ever want to do.

“That's what it shows. That's what it shows to me. All right. Well, let's hear it. Here's what it shows me. Andrea Yates also suffered from mental infirmity and drown her five children was eventually found not guilty for by reason of insanity.”

So when you have Lindsey Clancy who is basically saying she's not guilty by reason of insanity, though they call it something different in Massachusetts.

And she doesn't understand how somebody who was as much of a fucking nutcase as she was could kill her five children. How is that a positive reflection on Lindsey Clancy? She's basically saying, oh, I don't understand how she could do that. Like there's no psychotic break big enough that would justify it. Well, that's kind of how I feel right now. So I don't think that was a great witness to put on. Okay, okay, let's go to sod six, Allison Oska, to show that this was not something like you say schedule like she made it up, but there was a significant deterioration of her psychology. Let's go to sod six.

Beginning of December, it seemed like she very much decompensated. I do remember her saying one point at the beginning of December something long lines and I'm at a really tough spot. And knowing what she had shared with me previously about how her mental health had been struggling. I had this gut feeling that something was off and that she was really struggling and I asked her if she was safe.

“What did she say? She said yes at that point. The end of December. So I think it was more along the same of you know that she is really not feeling well. Her mood is down.”

She's feeling numb. She's feeling hopeless. I believe the variant of the month. She told me she had had suicidal radiation every day for a month.

Johnna, I mean, first of all, do you concede that she didn't make up this mental illness defense that she really was seeking help for a serious mental defect or disease? Yes or no can we start there John. She's not malingering. She was suffering from some sort of mental disease compounded or caused by the litany of medications that had to be. Thank you. Following her brain. Thank you for taking one step into reasonable land. Okay. That's nice. And I respect your thoughts. I really do because I'm still open minded. I am actually contrary to how I seem which is like an advocate for her.

I'm still open minded. I want to hear what the defense experts are going to say. I'm not done. I'm going to keep an open mind like the jurors are told to do.

I had an open mind. Okay. Good. Good. Great. So a very powerful witness was Paula Musgrove.

Okay. And again, we're going to this whole thought of what was happening before all this took place. I saw seven. Let's hear what she had to testify to. Yes. And do you have that on your phone right now? I did. Can you just pull that up for us? I can't just give me a moment. This is her mother by the way. I'm going to approach you with.

What does happen to have this right here? I don't know if it's a copy of the text that you're referring to. Yes, it is. Do you read that? It could be a little theatrical. Mom, will you please come up and say with me for a bit? I'm really sick. Something is wrong. I had horrible and sunny all night. And I just don't know how I'm going to get through the day.

I started taking the medicine. My doctor prescribed for anxiety.

“And I think it's me things worse. It's just really scary. And I don't want to be alone.”

Janna, your reaction. Okay. That to me, I get it.

Okay.

“That's what you should do. I'm assuming her mother is not a doctor.”

But that is, you're, you're, this is proving to me something that I've already accepted. Okay. Okay. I already get it. I get it. Our whole audience has not. There's a lot of people who feel differently. So we're throwing this out there for them as well. Mom, who we just heard testified Paula Musgrove, also testified that Lindsey expressed to her that all the drugs she was given. And there were over 30 prescriptions for serious psychiatric drugs.

And I'm with an a four month period. The last prescription was refilled or filled a day before her kids were killed. Okay. Another way to say before she killed her kids. Okay. And she shared, she Lindsey, the defendant shared with her mother Paula Musgrove that these drugs are destroying my mind. Okay.

Now, you got to consider that, John, not just the innate mental illness, but the panacea, the cure that they're giving to her. All these drugs will come to you in just a moment. Let me finish this thought. I can't hand raised. Okay.

All the drugs coming to her now is creating a second problem.

And it's the perfect storm. You understand? Your thoughts now. Go ahead, John. I'm selecting you. Go ahead. You speak. You would be an excellent defense attorney on this case. But I just want to I just want to pose one little common sense tidbit. Okay, common sense. Oh, let's bring that into the show.

Okay. Yeah.

“You know how when you have to give your dogs and medicine, peace and quiet, right?”

Have they ever had to take a pill? My two golden doodles. Peace and quiet. Peace and quiet. Yeah. You can you can leave the podcast now. We've named our dogs. Peace and quiet. Go ahead.

Right. If I'm going to name my next two dogs, Lood and the CBS. Okay. You know how to do it and prowling, prowling. Good.

You have to give your dog some medication, right?

You take the pill. You put it back the tongue. You rub the throat. The dog swells the pill. Okay. Human beings do not require that. Human beings open a jar.

They take out the pill. They put it in their mouth. Maybe a little water. Suck the back. Nobody was forcing these pills down her throat. If you feel like shit, if you feel off,

if you can't function, you know what you do more. You stop. You call the doctor. You lean off. You don't take this one. Maybe you take the other one. You do that. You don't feel right.

She did. She did.

Now, if you take 30 at a time.

No. She was doing what they were telling her to do. Okay. Thank you for those thoughts. Let's continue. To me, one of the greatest moments during her mom's testimony. I'm not nine. I'm occurred when Lindsey entered.

I believe it was the kitchen.

“I believe her husband, Patrick Clancy was there.”

And she made a certain announcement to me. This is significant. Do you recall the time that you were in the kitchen with Lindsey and Patrick and she made a statement about her husband and you were there.

Yes. I know it's difficult. Just tell us what you remember. I remember her being very nervous. I remember her saying, I just have to tell you something.

And then she told us. What does she tell you? She told us that she had thoughts of harming the children. Janna, to me, this is a moment. And yes, it cuts both ways. I'll let you make the argument for her.

I don't want to make the argument for her. I don't want to hear. I want to hear why you think this was a moment. Give me your thoughts on that. Because it was way before she ever took actions to commit these of harrant offenses.

She's crying out. She's saying amongst other things. I'm suicidal. I got these thoughts. The thoughts are even of harming my children. She's saying I need help. They were trying to get her help.

And it failed. They didn't give her the help that she needed, Janna. That's huge to me, not after the fact. She's like, oh, by the way, I had heard these voices or I thought about harming the kids. Yeah, bullshit. Who did you ever tell that to?

We've got it here, Janna. Come on, girl. All right. But wait. I can't just keep going back to a little bit of real life. You went to the hospital because you were dehydrated. I think if you would ever said to your wife,

I'm having thoughts of harming the kids. You would have been in a straight jacket in a mental institution. Well, you have the thoughts you can't just go, oh, you know what? You'll be better in the morning. Well, you can blame them.

And that's a separate issue.

beyond all realm.

I've defended him quite often.

There's some theories on that. But they both actually didn't think that she was serious about it. That she didn't have a plan. Why? Why? Well, I messed up that.

The prosecution not doing, I want to hear objections from this woman. She's not, she needs to go in for the kill. If she wants to win this case, if she really thinks that this person deserves to be put away for three counts of murder. They're going to.

They're going to argue that she had already thought about it in advance. And this was part of her planning. She had thought about killing her kids. And that goes to her intent or plan. And all that kind of stuff.

“But I think it's very helpful to the defense.”

I really do. I do. And I don't understand why you don't. Can we have a lighter moment just to break up this intensity? No, just for a moment.

- All right, all right. - All right, all right.

- But regarding the case, you had made an observation.

I think it was you, right? But how this judge stands all the time? - Yeah. - How about you? - As much as Luigi Manjo needs to do.

- It makes me nervous, he makes me nervous. - Does he? - Let's show them like a jack in the box. - Let's show them, so I tend what we're talking about. - Let's see if it's possible.

- Let's go inside, but I really don't want to go to the side. - I need to know what you're going to talk about before. If I want to tell you that, I think it packs. - I see both side by here. - Injuries?

- I can't see. (audience laughs) - There was an injury, I told you it's going to be stop. - Stop, right? - So we're going to start, stop now.

“- Council, can I see it's ever just very briefly?”

(laughs) - Can you imagine, can you imagine if I stood every time I want to make a point. - Janna? - Ruff is dead.

- Janna. (laughs) - We made the point. (laughs) - Janna, we did that every time.

- Hold on, I want to get another point, Janna. - It makes me know, although, did I ever tell you about the time that you have judges that force you to stand up when you're talking? - There have been some.

Yes, when you're addressing this court, I'd ask that you stand up, yes, there's that. - But I don't see judges pop up, I know. - I know. - I know, I know.

- There are any higher than everybody else. - Sit down. - Does it bother you? - Yeah, like it makes me nervous because I feel like he's nervous.

That's the vibe, that's coming. - Okay, all right. - It's not bothering anybody yet. - Let's get back into the weeds. Do you believe that it's helpful?

“And I'll ask you on the other end of Sott 11”

to portray her as a wonderful mother? The defense don't, don't answer. Stop checking your head, don't let him know. - Okay, let's make it a tease. - All right, Sott 11.

Was Lindsay a wonderful mom? Let's hear. That's a mother-in-law. Did you have any observation to observe Lindsay with her kids?

- Yes. - Who told the jurors about her? You saw her acting with the juror as well. - She was very, very true. That very much was a wonderful mother-in-law.

Did you ever see her treat? For her middle son, Dosson, and that? Because we didn't like them. - No. - Because she loved us in the European--

- She loved her children. All of them. Very, very much. That's her mother-in-law, so that's Patrick's mom. Testifying, consistent with every single person

who knew her, that talked about how much she loved her kids, which for me shows how inconsistent the acts were. But for mental illness and/or this drug cocktail, Johnna, your thoughts.

- I am never going to award her mother of the year.

Like, never, well, and-- - You lose points from murder. I'm sure. - No, you really do, and I almost feel-- So this is how I can explain it,

'cause it's very odd for me. When the family members stand up, whether mother-in-law, mother, or sister, or whoever, they stand up and they talk about how wonderful Lindsay is. Now, of course, you're going to say something nice

that your family member, that's kind of baked into the cake. But it almost makes it worse, because I say to myself, all right, well, if she was so wonderful, is that why you ignored? All of her quote-unquote, please, for help.

Like, you're talking at a both sides of your mouth, because if she were so fucking wonderful, then when she said, you know, I feel like I'm going to harm the children, I feel like this is bad. You don't go, it's just a phase.

You actually, as a family member, get off your ass, and you do something other than accept your text and talk to her, like, you know, you're in a friend group. You don't do that. So I don't get it.

If you, why didn't you take her seriously? Did you not take her seriously?

Because you were lazy, or did you not take her seriously?

Because she wasn't such a wonderful mother. And it's not your business. - John, are they missed it? I'm sure they live with a life of regret, because obviously they probably both feel like

if they can turn back the clock, they would do something different. In that same testimony of that witness, her mother-in-law, something that is really controversial took place, it's sort of 12. This is the prosecutor now, cross-examining the mother-in-law.

- Do you know what the prosecutor says? - Okay. - Yeah, this is on cross-examination to the state called her as a witness. She said, what a great mother she was,

and how she was deteriorating,

all the things that helped the defense, and then the prosecutor asked one question, and I want to know what your thoughts are. I feel very strongly against what she did, so 12. - Previously testified that breakfast was great.

- Yes. - And that church was beautiful. - Yes. - And in fact, the defendant, she told you that it was great and that she was glad she went to church that day,

and of course, she, I guess, she did. And then after that year where they went down to Connecticut to see her family. - Right.

“- Now, are you active member in the Catholic church?”

- Yes. - You're aware that murder is considered a murder. - Motocent. - Concentration. - Objection.

Objection. I'm standing, Janna. I'm standing. And when I heard that live, 'cause I was watching it, I jumped up also.

I objected. I think that that's wrong. It's reprehensible, your thoughts. - Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, why do you think it's wrong and reprehensible?

Is murder not immortal sin? What the hell is that up to do with a Tian China, Janna? - What? - How was that?

First of all, they went side by right away.

And when she came back, she moved on, okay? - Yeah. - It wasn't even touch. So, you know, she lost whatever argument she was trying to make about the relevance of that.

But what kind of relevance is that? - It was doing with that. It was such a stupid question. - Okay. - And I don't, and yeah, it's such a stupid question.

The prosecutor's not making any points with me.

“I think she's really been outlawed by the defense attorney,”

which is, can happen both sides, it can happen. But that was a dumbass question. - Janna, we could probably go on for another hour. There's so much material we will save it for next week. - Okay.

- I am watching, I am glued to this trial, providing legal analysis on it. - Can I say it? - Can I say it? - Can I say it?

- Can I say it? - Can I say it? - Can I say it? - Can I say it? - I want to, I think you're, I've seen your analysis on it.

I think you're doing an excellent job. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me.

- You're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me, you're not from me. - You're not from me.

- I have a question, you know, I don't know. I got to be me, Mark. Well, anyway, thank you for that compliment. I'm loving it. My wife is loving it because she sees how into it I am. And I just enjoy it. It's such an interesting subject matter. It really is. So we're going to keep watching it. - You know what I enjoy? - What do you like?

“- I enjoy the next part of our show with you. - Are we shopping? Are you shopping for product bags? Is that what we're doing in the next? What are we doing?”

- No, well, maybe during your rent. This is when you and I go off the record. I cannot wait. It's my favorite part when we come back. Welcome back to positively legal. This is our fun segment, because we don't know what each is going to rant about. I have no idea. Janna has gone from superficial at times to real serious stuff like the bow and the prosecutors air. I mean, there's a, we don't know. It's a grab bag and I'm excited for your rant and ladies first today. Right. We'll go with that. You ready, Janna? You ready? I'll tune up for you. Ladies and gentlemen, the lovely, the intelligent, the passionate, the filthy mouth. Janna's full board.

- Well, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You like me. You really feel like it. Okay. Okay, ready? This one might surprise you, Mark. This might have a little bit of both in one single rant. You'd be the judge. Okay. National news correspondent Matt Guttman is on the receiving end of quote, hostile work environment allegations filed by former ABC producer Samira Saeed with whom Guttman worked until 2025 when Samira got fired for unrelated reasons and Guttman jump ship to accept a big time roll at competitor CBS.

The horror. Now before anybody gets mad at me, let me say, sexual harassment is real, hostile work environments are real.

Women in men should absolutely be able to go to work without being propositioned, growped, threatened, intimidated, or having their careers held hostage because the coworker or worse, the boss doesn't want to let an erection, even a wholly inappropriate one, go to waste.

“That, however, is not this, not by a long shot. These allegations barely rise to the level of annoying, let alone actionable, even in ultra-low California where babies have pronouns on their birth certificates.”

Women have spent decades reminding men everything you can do I can do better except taking a fucking compliment apparently, complaining that a coworker noticed that someone else looked great in those genes takes title seven protections to another planet and would make it damn near impossible for men and women to work together without taping their mouths and their eyes shut.

You want to be replaced by a robot? Keep it up. Speaking of genes though, can I say without getting canceled that I would like to bring back the cat call and I don't mean just make it legal.

I mean, make it mandatory. I speak on behalf of women of a certain age, because I guess the non-gen X crowd would like men to stop commenting on their looks. Okay, fine. Send all those men to us. We'll take them. You see, there is a fascinating arc to being a woman. In your 20s, you actively see compliments. You just pretend you don't. Then you spend $300 of your parents' money on a sausage-skinned mini dress that pushes up your barely out of training broad breasts while constricting the bottom two lobes of your lungs in such a way that if you don't die from self-induced diaphragm paralysis, you just might get free drinks for the entire night.

Then you hit your 30s. Now you don't seek compliments. You expect them effortlessly. You walk into the room and knowing you look good. Some guy says, "Wow, you look amazing." And you're like, "I know." In your 40s, you're too busy to give a shit. You're working, you're raising people, you're divorcing people, you're making money. In your 40s, you don't have time for compliments.

“You're meant to walk past you and say, "You haven't incredible ass." And you're like, "Great, can you grab my dry cleaning?" But then something happens. Let's just say, "You leave your 40s or maybe your 40s leave you."”

Every so often, another body part quietly shifts, like you're a living, breathing, selvedore dolly painting. You look in the mirror confused wondering, "Was that body part always there?"

Suddenly, the men get quiet, or maybe polite. Frankly, friends, I don't want to reach a point where I can walk through home depot naked in some orange-bested retiree, avert his eyes.

“Look at my butt, Bob. Look at my butt. You think I'm spending all this money to defy gravity for you to respect my inner beauty? I don't know.”

At my age, if I walk past a man while looking fabulous, and he ignores that fabulousness, I'll show you a hostel. Now, where was I? Oh, yeah. The allidations against Matt Gutman do not rise anywhere near the level of hostel work environment. As women, we set ourselves back if we take every innocuous comment from a coworker into the courtroom. For God's sake, grow some thicker skin, unless, of course, it's on your ass. Are you still there, Mark? I'm trying not to laugh. I mean, you got Aristotle Plato's sake, and then you got John a look at my butt, Bob. I mean, that's legendary. Oh, my goodness. I have to keep my mouth quiet, and I'm glad you defended Matt, Matt's a friend of mine, and I don't know what happened, but my gutman tells me he didn't do anything.

I have one every single trial that I've ever been involved with. I've been trying cases for 34 years in spite of my youthful appearance, and I have one every single trial.

“Do you know what I'm saying? I'm saying that I'm lying. Of course, I haven't won every trial. Anyone who does is full of it, or they don't try cases.”

I bring that up to illustrate a point, and I'm sorry that I had to lie to you. I bring it up because there's a trial going on, Dwayne Davis. He's accused of playing a role in killing two-poctial court. The incident happened in Las Vegas, September 7, 1996, on the Vegas strip, 30 years ago. Why now? Why is he being prosecuted now? New evidence? Forensic evidence? DNA? A bustload of nuns finally came forward and said they saw him do it.

Oh no, it's because of his own words. You see, he doesn't subscribe to the adage that a fish who kept his mouth shut never got caught.

In fact, he went around making a number of statements to anyone who would listen, talking about how he was in the car and handed a gun to the person the back seat. So they could fire and seek retribution against two-poch and his posse having beaten Davis's nephew earlier in the evening. So there's motive there.

“But what's the evidence? Where's the forensic? Where's the video? It's all Davis's mouth. Is that enough for proof beyond a reasonable doubt? Does he have a motive to lie?”

Well, I don't know. He's a former gang member about street cred. How about selling books, which by the way was authored by a ghost writer? How about being associated with playing a role in the tragic demise of a gang of a rapper who you didn't particularly care for? There's plenty of reasons. Now, I'm not saying the prosecutors are wrong or they're doing anything nefarious by going after him if they think they have enough great. The larger issue, though, concerns me, prosecutors who are going after people based almost exclusively on the words that flow from their lips.

I kind of think you need more. I don't know if this jury's going to need more, we'll have to wait and see.

And with speaking about Las Vegas, the last time I was there, I was in an elevator and met a very attractive blonde. This is when I was single. And this blonde, who I was talking to for a while, invited me to a movie set and it turned out to be Margot Robbie, who I still to this day stay in touch with.

“Okay, that too is a lie. You see, you never really know when someone's telling the truth, right? I think I made my point.”

That was abutty. That's so kind of you. You were so convincing though, I just got mad when you said that you were an elevator with Margot Robbie and that you still keep in touch. I was like, ah, that's bullshit. Well, how dare you? How dare you? I was mad on behalf of representing Beth. Oh, so you thought it was actually true. See that? That's the point. You never know when people are lying, right? You never know not the best evidence. Good. And you're 100% right. In fact, there needs to be some corroboration or he actually might walk in a case that probably few of us are paying attention to it. Oh, no, so he may be convicted also anyway, John, great fools.

We don't leave until we do great fools. And you want to go first or I'll go first. I don't know. You go first. All right, so off the dome. I'm grateful for the last breath of air that I just had my mother who's not with us. She would she would love to have a few of those left. Just as she can see her grandkids again. I'm grateful for this show and the producers. I'm so grateful for you. I love these legal issues and that mentally. I'm still able to convey some some thoughts that that that help people understand these issues.

I'm grateful for my wife. My kids. I am overflowing and oozing with gratitude. John, you go. Okay. Since I'm usually the long winded one on the rant, I'll keep my gratitude. Very short. I'll just have one for today. I am grateful that you served did not die from pickleball dehydration. And I thank you. Namaste, my dear friend. Yes. Namaste doing this show now because I didn't die. Anyway, thank you all. We are so grateful for you. Again, no audience. We can't do this. So all of your wonderful and thank you for the comments. I've been reading them all week. John, I don't know if she's.