Luigi’s Federal Trial Delay, “Maternal Instinct” Murder, and COVID Psychosis Claim Clears Mom

Hello and welcome back to Positively Legal.

“I'm Mark Eiglarge and my bio says that I'm a criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor,”

adjunct law professor, author, and avid pickleball player. And here with my co-host, who I adore is-- I'm Jonas Billboard and I am a criminal defense attorney, not a pickleball player, I am a shopping official, not a end-of-founder of Jonas Billboard Law.

Mark and I are, this is a rare moment. Yes. Together in person here in New York City, and I want to make it clear we are in here to stand outside the jail, looking for Luigi Manjee on heat.

Why? But we could do that. We do have to talk about the elevator incident. Yes, yes. Also updates in his federal trial.

And we're also going to discuss the case of Taylor Parker, that's the youngest woman on Texas Death Row. That's the new Netflix documentary called Maternal Instinct. Discusses the heinous stuff she did.

We're also going to bring you a deep dive on the first ever

COVID-related psychosis case out of my hometown, South Florida. But first, it's Happy Arjuna. Let's go. If you haven't drink it, let's go. No, you're not supposed to show us with just water. I just spilled it all over me too.

And that's probably why. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what a day.

“So this happy hours a little bit different.”

You're here visiting with your lovely wife, Beth. Yes. I can meet for the first time in the person. Yes. We're both from Manjeeke and Lance.

Very, very petite. Yes, we are. Yes. We're tiny, but you're here having a great time. You went to concert last night.

We were at the New York Philharmonic and Bill Bill. Then wrecked her performed phenomenal. That place was spectacular. Not loving the heat here in New York though. It is, it is steamy and it's that kind of heat.

Well, you get the same heat in Florida where it kind of sticks to you. Not a fan. Not a fan. I like it. I prefer this over 10 degree weather.

And you, were you in court today? Did you work? What did you do? Get a guilty person off. How do you live with yourself?

Go ahead. How do you live? Just at Newsmax because as everybody knows, this is a big scoots the last day of scotus. And they came out with three or four of the final rulings that everybody was waiting for.

And so I was on TV talking about that. One big decision, which one were you talking about? So really, the top three and two out of three ain't bad. Here's what happened. As expected, the Trump administration lost the birthright citizenship ruling.

If you're born here, regardless of whether your parents are here illegally, you are a citizen of the United States. It will take, this Supreme Court says it will take a constitutional amendment to change that. Some other scholars are saying, nah, that's so fast.

We can probably get Congress to do it. Be that as it may, he lost on that one. However, he did win on keeping men, biological men out of women's sports that was a very big one. Okay.

Another, the other in the trilogy is a campaign spending those limits gone, which is a very good thing if you're part of the Republican Party. And you talked about all three of these things. Talked about all three of these things. Two days.

So nice. My brain's on fire. You got it all. All right.

“What do you have to say about Luigi getting stuck in an elevator?”

What's that about? Why is he an elevator, Johnna? The funny part about that is that our audience doesn't know it's well last week, right? If they listened in, found out that they're good friends. Yes.

Who I had lunch with today? That's right. We need to talk about that. Got stuck in an elevator and got in trouble for it. Luigi didn't get in any trouble today for being like it being stuck in an elevator.

The 30 minutes waiting shackled to come to court, right? Oh. Right. Give me a river. My God.

This man has such a fan. The fan club is not dying down at all. It might even be getting bigger. And well, I guess today he was trying to figure out rescheduling the federal trial because the state trial is going to go first.

Here's my question. We've had people who support how there were people who supported Charlie Manson back in the day.

Just because it was always fine.

Yes. Right. But this is a little different. Doesn't seem like these people are like the fringe folks. There's a lot of mainstream people supporting and excusing what Luigi Manjoni did.

Right? You were really stupid question. Yeah. Wouldn't be the first. Yeah.

OK. So I get that part of the fan club is due to the fact that the CEO that he killed, who was a husband and a father. So there's no excuse for that for me. Right.

CEO of United Health, very big health care company. A lot of people have a problem with their health insurance.

Do you're allowed to have problems with the health care industry or that particular

company? Yes. But you can't off the people who work there in my opinion. I agree. Do you think part of the fandom is due to the fact that Luigi, if he didn't, if you weren't

a murderer alleged, allegedly, yes, is a good looking dude. I knew what you were going to ask and the answers, of course, you think that's part of it. We were ugly. Yes.

If you were ugly, he would not have this fandom or he still would have this fan. It would be a lot less. We like that. That's how we are. That's how we are.

Children, they ignore the not so cute ones and society deems what is, that's a fact.

We know that and then society with racial undertones determines what cute is or what we're going to make media worthy.

“So I believe, yes, I mean, the actors who are portraying real-life people are always”

better looking than the real-life people. There's a reason why Hollywood does that. So yeah, I think that we care more, we not me, but society, and again, it wouldn't mean that there still wouldn't be a lot of people who are so anti-health care that they wouldn't be supporting him.

But I think a lot of these women, a lot of the women, are Google for the murderer. I think they are. And we do know that there's also a phenomenon for lack of a better word that a lot of these guys, if they're halfway decent looking, no matter what they've done, no matter how heinous the act, continue to get love letters.

And then there's brothers back in the day that they were good looking to, although I had some sympathy for them. I have zero sympathy for Luigi Manjo, none, not even a bet, but for them then there's brothers I did, and they were good looking, Scott Peterson by all accounts, decent looking dude. Have no sympathy for him either, although I'm not so sure that Jerry got it right.

We had a segment on that a few weeks back. We've been talking about his defense, right? And they put out the big psychiatric defense and then pulled it back within 24 hours. And we're trying to figure out why, what happened. And I don't believe lawyers generally change their minds overnight.

It usually comes from a client, and here's my thought, and I heard this put out there, and this is what I'm embracing, that Luigi Manjoenie heard the response from his supporters. And he'd have to admit that there's something psychiatrically wrong with him that caused him to do this, and he still believes in the cause. He still believes that the murder was justified, and he doesn't want to tell his base, his

supporters. Yeah, you're right. There was some defect in my brain. Now, there's nothing wrong with me. I knew what I was doing.

I still think he's a little bit nutso. A little bit nutso. Yeah. Well, no.

“I think he might be a little bit, you have to be a little bit nutso to commit this kind of crime,”

but not legally nutso. Not legally nutso. Not legally nutso. You know what I'm saying? Anyone who's going to kill someone a cold blood is not in the right state of mind, that

doesn't mean that they're legally insane. What I'm saying is, I don't think that merely because he was arrested to see become like you and I. He's with the cause. I'll do it.

I feel horrible for what I did. My God. Two kids now don't have a father, right? So I think he still believes in the cause, and he doesn't want to go psycho on it, right? So yes, and I don't believe he is the one driving the bus, like you know, and I know

that when you come out with a psychological defense, it's your attorneys who are putting that forth. We have to do it within a certain period of time, it has to be justified, et cetera.

So to do a 180, basically within 24 hours, I don't, it had less to do with Luigi and

“more to do with the lawyers, and I think the thing.”

The problem was the interplay between claiming that as a potential defense in the state case, and then having that f up, the federal because they hadn't thought that out. The lawyers didn't think that through these top-notch lawyers, I don't, I don't buy it. Perhaps they thought that the order of the trials would be flip-flops. So it could have been, so it can be literally logistic that made that happen overnight, like

24 hours, how many times in your illustrious career? Yes, thank you. Have you had a client tell you what to do, and I don't mean look, they get input, I get that. But how many times have you said, "All right, I'm going to present XYZ defense, and then 24 hours later your client says, "No, you're not," and you go, "Oh, okay."

Well, if the client does, it's their right, right? It's their right, especially in a case like this. You know that where this is going to end. He's not getting out of prison, so the defense lawyer really, really, had best, had best to hung jury.

You're going to get 12 people who come in there and say, "All town, well, did you see who we affected as well?"

All right, well, can't wait to find out exactly what defense they're running with.

“We'll put a button on that this will be the last time we talk about Louie G, right?”

By the way, we read all of your responses, right, your opinions. So let us know, let us know what you guys think. If you think that, I don't know, his look matters, let us know. Put that in there. How much of that is part of it.

I'm not saying it's exclusively because he's good looking, right? But that does play a role, you let us know. And then what do you think the best defense for him should be? What else do we want them to talk about? I want to hear from them, you guys are involved in this podcast.

He's well, okay, and if they look up extreme emotional disturbance in New York, which wouldn't serve to get him off, it would serve to reduce the level of this to a manslaughter charge. Which would have him seeing the light of day, maybe down the road because you're not an old guy, he's young guy. And what you guys think about that, can you be under such extreme emotional disturbance over

what exactly? See, that's the piece that I don't think we have yet because you don't like our healthcare system because did he have his own, like we don't know, we don't know. And so they can weigh in on that. And weigh in on whether you think, Jonah, what she just said, which is scared, the crap

out of me, is that we're not just talking about one or two stealth jurors, she thinks they're literally in this town, this town, because I'm here, in New York, you could find 12 people who all unanimously dismiss his murder. Fan club, wow, all right, let's move on to the, the internal instinct, right? All right, all right, let's set this up.

I don't know if you guys have seen this, but it's spectacular. It's a quick documentary, very scary, very scary, it's called maternal instinct.

Let's run the clip, like the trailer of it first and we'll talk about it.

I have it now, tighter, but just a couple of months, she hits me with I'm pretty sure I'm pregnant. Coming from a small tail, and you can trust me, see? It's just beginning to worry. Something's just not right. I said, did you go in with her to the clinic?

She said the doctor had a emergency or he couldn't meet us. So many things did not add up. I mean, they were buying cars, cattle, some day, she was going to beat this millionaire. I mean, that's what she told us. And what people say is this loving, happy relationship, why would you not believe it?

I mean, how much do I tell the folks out there, right?

“Yeah, I mean, you should have seen it by now.”

It was like the top show on Netflix for a while. We're going to talk about it. First and foremost, let's discuss how the guy in the hat, this guy weighed, um, get his name. The boyfriend? Yeah, the boyfriend.

He weighed Griffin, okay, he's a hog trapper, okay, um, and he falls for her, um, but probably

not enough, and she wanted him to like her more. I think that was her motivation, right? So she claimed she was pregnant, although that couldn't be possible. Why, Jenna? Because apparently previously, she had somehow she lost the ability to reproduce.

Correct. Correct. That was, but that's not what you lead with, right? So it, I can understand up to that point where people might be fooled, because it's like, hi, I'm Jenna, I'm sterile.

How are you, Mark? Right. Right. Right. So that doesn't, that just doesn't flow.

No, not right. So a boyfriend may not know that. It's not like they go through their gynecological records. So so far, her lie is just one of the things, innocuous at that point. But it gets far, far worse, and gruesome.

It does. She had had a, had a, has direct me, and then there's an interesting issue here. The folks who knew that she had a, has direct to me, has to raise for you to say, could not come out publicly and say, she's lying. She's not pregnant because of hippopotamus.

That's right. What about that? Should there be an exception? Should, should we make an exception when people could be harmed as a result of those people's lies, throwing it out there?

“I don't know that I think that that's appropriate.”

But in this case, maybe things would have stopped little earlier if the folks who had stopped her from ever getting pregnant could tell the world, including her boyfriend. Hey, she can't get pregnant. No. No.

No. You know why? Tell me. Okay. Good.

You're like, I like this one off of your eyes. No, you're right. I saw it. I literally suck a ding. I have one moderately funny story that I'm going to have to try to talk and code

in order to tell. But okay. Well, I think hippo is sacrosanct, right? Nobody should be allowed to violate it unless for some reason you're about to commit a crime.

Got it.

Because at this point, even though the doctor's know she's lying to a boyfriend, that

isn't exactly criminal. How could they foresee? So my legal argument, there's no foreseeability that it's going to rise to the level or stoop to the level that it did. Right.

Without giving that away. But here's the other thing. So imagine if the entire medical community could violate HIPAA if they catch you in some sort

“of lie, what that would do to the dating community?”

Yes. So my segue is-- Yes. No, I hear you. My disease is certain diseases.

Right. I do have a person, I'll just say, I do have a client who, not in the medical field, but one time, accessed for boyfriends, medical records. Oh, my. Posted them.

No. On social media.

And then the world was aware that he had something that you can't wash off, Mark.

Oh. Something that you can't wash off. Even with a lot of scrubbing. No. OK.

So there's that. So I'm very pro-HIPAA. OK. So if this was just a documentary about a woman who claims she was pregnant and in full people, we would not be talking about it.

This is true. There's a lot more that happened. What's the next thing that jumps out at you as something that was kind of major in this documentary series here? Well, OK.

If you look at the whole package, we're talking about a woman who not only lies about being pregnant, but very actively pretends to be pregnant. She looks visibly pregnant, right, to the untrained eye. But she also talks about being a millionaire. Like she wants to be the whole package.

She's living in a deluded bubble. Right.

And she presents this persona, which is completely fake on every level to the world.

I want to go to SOT 2, OK. Also known as Clip Number 2. When we say SOT, I wonder if that's not like SOT. You like SOT? No, but it knows what that means.

SOT. Clip Number 2, regarding HIPAA-- Yes.

“Are we seeing a violation of HIPAA in Clip Number 2?”

Play it. Let's find out. That looks like she got a baby. It doesn't look. OK.

It doesn't look like she had a baby. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. OK. So what happens with you? Yes.

What thing happened? What's with you? You didn't get birthed. That's right. That's right.

Yeah. That's right. I tell you, most of the people are going to send the worse. They're going to send you an equal person. And then you just butcher this lady and left her the rotten side of the road.

So you still reminded me. I don't think that was the case. I mean, you don't seem like a type of person. I didn't kill anybody. We're just baby come from.

We're past all that. We're past that. I did not kill anybody. I didn't kill anybody. So she left.

I wasn't with her. You're right. It's mine. It's now. All right.

So wait. There's a lot in that video. Yeah. Clearly, it jumped ahead on the story. So we're going to get you caught up.

“But in a moment, let's just address the hippos issue.”

By that, I mean, you have a doctor who just performed a physical exam on a woman. And then analysis publicly. I mean, to to to to to law enforcement and anybody else standing there. I just checked and there. She did not have a baby.

How is not a hip of violation? No. Because now this doctor knows that there has to be criminal activity of foot. You've got a baby. Right.

And a person who couldn't have possibly given birth. Right. You've got some blood. Right. The baby probably isn't doing well.

So now you know, you're putting two and two together as a doctor. And even if it were a hip of violation. But I say, no, because it's clear that a crime has occurred. Oh, close likely. All right.

Fair enough. Now let's deal with what she's talking about. They're confronting her. What do they mean when they say murder? You know, they're talking about somehow she got a baby, though.

She faked her pregnancy. She got a baby somewhere. We're going to tell you we're ruining the documentary. But yeah, we're turning it off. Well, don't turn it off.

We want them to one. Okay. So what happened, which you get the baby from? Well, this is this is disgusting. She got the baby.

Unimaginable. From her friend who was at the time very much alive and very actually pregnant. Unlike the subject of this documentary.

And then attempted to do a very un-official c-section, extracted the baby.

“Then tried to pretend that she had given birth in the car on the side of the road.”

Which has happened legitimately. Right. But in this case, not so much. And she met the victim because the victim hired her to photograph the victim's wedding. That's right.

Right. Do you believe that? It's just so. Like the randomness of life. If he had chosen, you know, any other photographer, they wouldn't have brought this horrible human being into their life.

So she has a trial and what happens? Well, she is not only found guilty. Yes. But she is on death row. Yes.

The youngest woman on Texas's death row.

Very rare to have a woman period on death row. But she is the youngest woman on death row. But let's just add a little fuel to this fire. So while she's sitting in jail, she's having these bratty conversations with her mother who I think is bankrolling her defense.

Right. Your mother's not going to do it. Right. Who is? Still not grasping the fact that she killed two people.

Yeah.

“And it's facing, you know, well, how do she, is she, is she Florida?”

She's Florida. This is Texas. Texas. How do they, how do they execute people in Texas? Do we know?

Uh-huh. Texas is pretty, you know, I'm thinking firing squad. Good question. Or is it lethal injection? We're going to have to look at it.

We'll look it up. But it's Texas. They go big. We're out of time for this block. And there's so much more to talk about.

Watch the documentary. And let us know if you think it says outrageous as we thought. And let us know if you think she deserves the death penalty. We're talking about Luigi Manjoni being too good-looking to prosecute our young women who are cool-go.

Should they be subject to the death penalty? Speaking of women who are cool-go coming up in the next block. How about that? Did you like that? That was beautiful.

Is that a purpose? Because that was just beautiful. We're talking about precious bland. A mother who did the unspeakable. She killed her 15-month-old daughter.

She stabbed her teenage daughter. She stabbed her husband. She went to trial and was found not guilty by a reason of insanity. And the judge is under fire. The judge who happens to be a dear friend of mine.

Stick around. We'll be right back. [music] Welcome back to Positively Legal Mark. You brought us this next case.

And the name of the former defendant, precious bland. You brought this case to our attention because it is, to me, an absolute outrage. It's in your neck of the woods. Oh, yeah. You know most if not all of the players.

Everyone. This woman was found not guilty by reason of insanity after she killed her 15-month-old child. The defense was based on COVID psychosis. Whatever the hell that is. Mark.

“I think we're on the opposite page on this page.”

All right. So let's tell the story first from your perspective, from the prosecutors perspective. What's not controversed is this woman was suffering from a mild case of COVID. It wasn't an extreme case. And with that, she ran around the neighborhood asking if people had gotten the vaccine.

And if they had gotten the vaccine, she said that was from the beast, from the devil. And these people needed to be worried. Shortly thereafter, this woman decided to have a baptism of her six children, including her husband as well at home. And one by one, she was holding them underwater to baptize them. No ill intent apparently at that point.

The husband took great exception to what she was doing. And he kind of was held under a little longer, like it got a little, got a little bad. So she asked the one of their daughters to bring her a knife. And that daughter who I was told.

Did you always use a knife in baptism?

Something like that. I was told that the daughter's little special. She follows her mom's wishes. She went and brought a butcher's knife into the bathroom. And the husband was stabbed, her 16-year-old daughter was stabbed.

And in doing so, the 15-month-old daughter who was in the process of being baptized, drowned and died.

She once guarded George W. Bush and his wife and had accommodations from them. I mean, this woman extremely religious by all intensive purposes, a great mother and normal until this occurred. The defense expert said she was suffering from psychosis as a result of COVID. The state's own expert, although couldn't say where it came from.

“So that's why the state took exception to it.”

Like you have to anchor it to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. They couldn't anchor it to a mental defect or disease. So they said, "You know what? We're not going to stipulate. We're not going to agree." And while he thought she was suffering from some psychosis, the state still preceded and thought that there was indications of right from wrong. And it didn't meet the test.

Now, that's the, I told it kind of from the state's perspective, okay? She did slid her wrists shortly thereafter, what else? She did say, she did tell police that she thought her husband was cheating on her. But that was only because she had voices in her head telling her at the time that he was cheating. Even though there was no indication of that before the man works 12 to 14 hours as a postal employee.

So there's all that they opted for a bench trial in front of the judge. Okay, let me let you talk. I talked a lot. Give me your thoughts.

Okay, so first of all, the fact that nobody's ever heard of COVID psychosis is problem number one for me.

Number two.

“I'm a wait and let you go through them or one by one. What should I do?”

No, just wait. I'll go through a couple. Okay, so now precious plan. Yes. On top of having this novel defense wherein she killed her 15-year-old, 15-month-old child. Yes.

Staffed her husband, stabbed her other child. Yes. Opted for a bench trial. In my very short career, I don't want to say how many years. A couple weeks.

Yeah. The only time that I have opted for a bench trial in a criminal case is when I know that this judge, be it a wink and a nod, be it the pretrial happenings is going to rule in my favor. Yes.

So my first, not my first problem.

One of my problems is what transpired between the defense and this judge that convinced him in my opinion before any witnesses were sworn mark that this woman did not deserve to be convicted? I will answer that if you're asking me to send one in a row. Did you know? I have spoken to people very close to this off the record, so I'm not going to say who.

I will tell you that this wasn't one of these scenarios where wink and a nod, hey, I'll take care of it. Apparently both sides were not certain what the judge was going to do. Number one. Number two, the state offered the defense. A reduction of the charge to manslaughter and 20 years of probation.

My question to you.

“Right, that's what I was going to ask you.”

Do you tell that or do you risk it all in front of the judge? Now I have an even bigger question. When you have that kind of sweet deal on the table, the bird in the hand. You think the defense knew that the judge would rule in their favor? A bird in the hand.

Yes. Wow, did you talk? I mean, I don't know if you can reveal. What the motivation? How many experts in order for this defense to fly? Whether it's in front of a judge or in front of a jury, you have to have solid experts.

And you have to have the expert has to be able to testify that it's going to meet the test, which in Florida is a little different than the fry test, which we have here. That it's accepted in the medical community. How many experts did the defense have? To prove this COVID psychosis and the effect that it would have?

So if I say tomorrow, Mark, oh, COVID psychosis, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to get off. Well, it's going to start to be a popular defense now.

All right, first, so that people have a visual of the judge.

Let's go to sought number five. This is my dear friend, Judge Miguel Delo, who's been on the bench since 2013. And by all accounts, just an extraordinary judge. But to state the defense, we all agree, this guy's a great judge, okay? You might not like the ruling in this case, okay? You don't, okay?

But let's take a look at him, sought number five. As to count one aggravated manslaughter, the defendant is not guilty. My reason of insanity is to count two attempted murder in the first degree. The defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity. And as to count three attempted murder in the first degree, the defendant is not guilty by reason of insanity.

Okay, and it's important also, we talk about her mental state.

showing what she's telling law enforcement when they come into her home.

“This is in real time, this is before you come up with a psychosis COVID defense, right?”

Let's play that one. Save yourself. He died, it's coming back. No, no, he's coming back. She's coming back.

That is coming back. Please listen to me. Save him as a deceiver. We're trying to have it. She's a deceiver.

For instance, you guys, I cut my wrist. I cut my wrist. Yeah, apparently the bathtub covered in blood. She didn't do it superficially. She cut deep into a wrist.

And she felt that she wasn't dying fast enough. So she went and got her husband's gun. And tried to cock it back.

I don't know what the firm for.

I don't know what I'm going to gun. But she tried to, and she couldn't. It was all so much blood. And she couldn't get a grip.

“So she was determined to kill herself, which the prosecutors would have used to show what?”

Why is she trying to dismiss a deal? There we go. To make it fair and balanced, absolutely. Right? Why does she want to end herself?

Because the prosecution argued she knew she had done something. Wrong. And that alone could have been enough to get the judge to rule against the defense. Which goes back to your question. What if the defense now?

Right? That would guarantee them to turn down probation. Right? Right? So I will try to make sense of it.

I don't know. I don't know if there was any wink wink nutty nutty. Between the defense. And there was none with the state that I found out. The state didn't go bent so that the judge would find her not killed.

They actually thought they had a shot. Okay? Pardon the pun. But I can't tell you that this one was in jail for four years pending trial. Oh yeah.

And then this judge took over for a different judge. And then it was brought to his attention. You know, this case and what was going on. And he let her out on house arrest. So the defense then would have known that he would have been sympathetic to the cause.

Right? Right? So maybe that's part of it, John, because you don't turn down probation. By the way, it was the defendant, by the way, who didn't want to say that she was guilty. Because she still does not believe in her mind.

That she is responsible. Well, I am happy to learn that this defendant did spend four years behind bars because Back in 2021 is when she allegedly had the COVID psychosis. But oh, as luck would have it, Mark. It doesn't last forever. Oh, no, no, no, no. You can have COVID psychosis just enough time to get

off on a criminal on a murder charge of your 15-month-old baby. And then, and then, oh, but wait, there's more. So not only did she get acquitted. Mm-hmm.

“Like, Andrew Yates, do you think maybe she's in a mental institution for a little while?”

That did shock me too. Okay. Okay. All right. So let me, let me respond. Keep it fair.

All right. All right. Yes, she is still not in a mental institution. Right. The judge on July 17th, I believe, is a date. Is going to hold a hearing after she is reevaluated.

Mm-hmm. And the defendant is reevaluated. You're skepticism is oozing. This is one of those times where I wish I wasn't in person. So I get these words out.

I just feel it oozing from you. Let me keep going. So he's going to determine. And I've spoken with people close to this. Including some people from the state.

And none of them take the position that she needs to be institutionalized. Because just like you say, the psychosis isn't there that happened four years ago. So now the question is, how can somebody suffer from this? And be okay now. Right.

Well, there are studies that the defense expert pointed to, where 4% of people who've experienced, let's see, COVID have experienced some psychosis. On different levels, not necessarily killing their own kids. But then it is a thing. And maybe it's just not documented enough because it's still very new.

And maybe in 10 years we go, oh, remember when it was so new, when you and I, John, were, you were mocking it? Well, now it's a thing. Right? I mean, bipolar was laughed at.

I'm sure when it first came, I was like, it's a frenzy.

I like really, what's that? They hear different voices. You know, there's different personalities. Let's say, well, then it became established. No.

As if COVID isn't bad enough. Yes. Right. The fact that it is potentially giving rise to a defense of as extreme as taking a life. And that you can, oh, because it's so new.

We don't know. Can't get over it.

Mm-hmm. Offends me to the core.

So here's my question to you.

Why'd she do it? If it wasn't psychosis, why does a woman-- She's a crazy bitch. Oh, god. Because she's a crazy bitch.

You had so much on her. But not all crazy bitches are-- Can get off on killing a 15 month old precious baby. Stabbing her husband who she thought was cheating on her-- Stabbing her other teenage daughter.

Yeah. And then gets to successfully use a defense that none of us have heard of until this case.

“So let's-- does she take responsibility as a question?”

Sot number eight addresses that. Let's play that on whether she takes responsibility for her daughter's death. Do you take responsibility for the death of your daughter? It's a hard thing, but absolutely. I know people say, well, just because she was in psychosis,

doesn't mean that she shouldn't have to take responsibility. Every morning I hope my eyes-- I take responsibility. Every morning I hope with my eyes. And I have to walk in this and it's like the entire time.

I was like, OK, now the candid cameras can come out. Like, I don't know what this is. But somebody's going to come and say, hey, look, you're baby spine. Like, this was all just one big elaborate joke to see how you handle pressure.

I have to wake up with the fact every day that my daughter is gone. Because of something that was outside of what I could contain and what I can do and what I experienced on that day, was definitely something that was not normal. I can't even explain it was something that was so strong.

“And I dare to say, so demonic in nature.”

And to hear voice and to not want to do it, but you hear something, and if you don't want to do it, it's going to make you do it. That's something I could not understand and could not come the terms with.

Wow, that woman there does not appear like she's capable of doing the things that she did. We're going to make a little wager right here right now. Let's go. Right here right now.

That woman right there. No.

We're going to have a second story.

We're going to have a second story. It might be year, it might be fun. It might be Ted, Mark Eilard. We could be great hair and long retired. You're going to owe me a hundred bucks.

When that happened. Really? Going to happen. Well, I did ask someone, again, that I spoke to today, very close to this whole thing off the record.

“And I said, what about the concerns for other family members?”

If and when she gets a cold or a virus, another virus. Right, she's prone to virus. I didn't want to do it. Hold on. And I was concerned because this is also new, right?

So do you like kidney stones? They told me I'm more likely to get him again because I've had him already, right? So is she more likely to hear voices again? That commands her to kill her kids. Now, I learned with great joy that mixed feelings.

She's not with her family members. That child protective services came in and took the other kids away. Really? Yeah. But I'm mixed feelings because it's sad because she loves her kids and they probably need her mother.

They don't need that mother. Do you know that the husband and the daughter both testified on her behalf? Are you surprised or no? I'm not really surprised. I'm not surprised.

I think we have a thought on that. It's been kids and support. Let's number 10. Let's play that and see what she says there. And you're still married to your husband.

And I'm legally. Yes. We're still married. Okay. And we're working on it because of course we've been separated all of these years.

But he did take the stand for you. Yes. He did. He did. He woke me.

You know, while I was in jail keeping me encouraged telling me, you know, I love you. You know, stay strong. We know that. That was not you. You know, and that kept me going my kids.

They would draw pictures and color pictures. And they would send me their drawings and their report cards. I was just so proud of them throughout everything.

And I am just so blessed to have this second lease on life.

I'm going to make it really personal.

“I want you to picture someone that you loved dearly in your life.”

Okay. Okay. Other than your cats. Okay. So picture.

Do you want to reveal who it is? You just want us to imagine. No. There's plenty of people. A lot of people would home to do the same.

Picture one person. You're significant other. Right? I'm going to picture it. That's my wife.

Who one day does something heinous like this. You know to your core. That's not who the person is. Right?

Because she's never done anything like this.

Keep going, right? Right? But you, you abandon that person. And you claim that the psychosis that you clearly see is not real. It's just, it's not real when you're dealing with someone.

You don't know like this woman, but someone you do care about. You just, you say it's full and you abandon them. So there are a couple of people in my life. Namely my parents who not only could they under any circumstances. You know, off somebody.

And I would help them hide the body. Right? Because I just love them so much. Yes. But the flip it side of me wants to say.

I have broken up with men mark because they chewed too loudly or had a little spot of food. A little spot of food on their lip. But once I'm done, I'm done.

“So can I fall out of love because somebody does something big like that?”

You bet I can. Okay. But maybe not for like my parents. So perhaps this husband was a little bit afraid that if he didn't testify for her, Right.

And she got out. That he was going to be like a scene from Psycho. You know, like you like mafia. You are skeptical to the core. How do you feel about the judges decision?

And before you answer, I'm going to get your opinion on that. Do you believe that he should be in trouble for his ruling? If we go to Sada 11, apparently the attorney general of Florida thinks he should. Yes. And this is when I got really upset.

Sada 11. You have somebody that's drowning a baby and then a judge is, you know, an avenge trial letting her off for insanity. And then she's going to go right back out into the public. This is wrong.

Well. So do you think this judge should be pulled from his, from the bench?

Well, here's what's going to, well, here's the problem.

You could say no if you'd like.

“I can't, we can't have an appeal because the defendant won, right?”

So there's no, there's no appeal there. Right. And I want to go back to, I think it was last week's show. When we watched part of an interview with the judge in the Carmelo Anthony case. Mm-hmm.

And he's, and a lot of people, this is kind of opposite, right? He, Carmelo Anthony got 30 years for killing us a schoolmate basically. And this judge said, I knew that it, it was going to be a problem. But I also knew that I followed the law. Right.

And he stood behind every ruling that he made. I followed the law. So regardless of what the people think. Yes. I'm okay.

Yes. Do you know whether this judge, I have no doubt to my core? All right. I will respect that. If that judge sleeps soundly at night. Yes. Because he followed the law.

Had a defense expert telling him that he believed it was due to COVID-induced psychosis. She did not know right from wrong. The judge looked at everything and balanced it carefully. New it wasn't going to be popular. Had the courage to then rule pursuant to the law.

Not only should it be praised for that, even though a lot of people don't like his decision. He certainly shouldn't have to look over his shoulder and make political decisions in the future because they're threatening to yank him. It's my strong opinion. I love your strong opinions, Mark.

Because whenever you have them, I always say to myself,

"If I get in trouble, please let it be in South Florida. Please let it be in South Florida." We'll come on down and get naughty. All right. We're going to go off the record soon. Yep.

When we come back, don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Positively Legal. And we're going to go off the record in just a moment. But first, John any time there's a clown arrested for some reason. Positively Legal needs to talk about it.

I don't mean to laugh. It's just a story that we debated on whether we should highlight or not. And we're going to show it. It happened in Florida. So apparently I'm being held responsible for it.

It's the Malabar Road in Palm Bay, Florida. This guy, Marlow, was booked at the Brevard County jail on charges of trespassing. He was warned not to return because people are anti-clown these days. They just are John. It's not fair, right?

And he was also charged with resisting an officer without violence. And they found multiple clown outfits when they searched him.

Let's take a look at this.

Just stimulating important video. Shot number 12, please. Don't go anywhere, Chris. You're not afraid to leave. No, you're not afraid to leave.

You're under arrest now. Put your stuff down. - Why? Rod me for just a couple of times, eh? - Don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, don't stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop,

Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go And it's all your words now. - You look like a clown in my background.

If that's ever been appropriate for a cop to say, it would be in this instance. But again, what we find also to be interesting about this

is sat 13, apparently this guy takes a very strong position

when being booked, concerning that red nose. Let's go ahead and play that. (speaking in foreign language) - We could use this. Can you look right here?

“It's gonna be where I like, that's a camera for you, right?”

Can I take this off? I gotta take it off for a picture. - Oh, it's gonna come off you at some point. - It's gonna be there now. - We'll light it later.

- Light it. - Okay. - Which word it off for you? - John, have you ever represented any clowns in your day? - Not that we're wearing a red nose.

(laughing) - That's what it's about. - You've dated a few in your time in the middle of your day, yes. - Okay, all right, enough of the clowns stuff. Let's stop clanting around.

- Let's get serious with our rants. - Well, mine's not really serious, but I really like it. - Is your serious? - Mine is serious this week. - You should go first.

- Should I go first?

“- All right, my wife and I recently watched”

another outstanding true crime documentary show. I highly recommend it. It's in and out like 90 minutes, called "Lire the Fake Gruming Scandal." It's a true story of a young woman in England,

her name is Ellie Williams. She claimed that she had been groomed, trafficked, and brutally abused by a gang of men. Her allegations sparked national outrage, protest, and massive media attention.

But after a lengthy police investigation for Rensick and digital evidence, proved she made the whole thing up. They literally had video showing that she wasn't where she claimed and these guys had nothing to do with her.

She was exposed. The documentary explores not only how the hoax unraveled, but also the devastating toll it took on the innocent men that she accused. One guy, a 19-year-old went to prison.

Another guy was a predominantly influential guy and his reputation was ruined. It impacted all their families as well. The community and even real victims of abuse. To me, the biggest lesson isn't just that someone lied,

which is horrible, it's at justice requires patience, objectivity, and evidence. Today, we live in a world of instant opinions. An accusation is made, and this really pisses me off. Within minutes, social media has already decided

who's guilty. It happens with my clients, too. Really bothers me. Reputations are ruined, careers are destroyed, and lives are turned upside down

before all the facts are known. And why let pesky facts affect your opinion. This documentary reminds us that two things can be true at the same time. Anyone who says they're a victim deserves to be treated

with love and compassion, and they should be taken seriously. But anyone accused of a crime also deserves the presumption of innocence, and they deserve a fair, unbalanced, unbiased, unbiased investigation. False accusations don't just hurt the people being accused.

They also make it harder for genuine victims to be believed.

“If there's one lesson we should all remember, it's this.”

Never let emotion, politics, public pressure,

or social media replace the facts. Evidence, not outrage, should guide our conclusion. That's why the presumption of innocence isn't a loophole.

This documentary isn't just about one shocking lie.

It's a powerful reminder that justice only works

when we're willing to wait for the evidence before rushing to judgment. You want to know her defense? She'd be. Oh no.

Mark?

“I think her defense should be COVID psychosis.”

Oh, I knew you were doing there. I think everybody's defense from now on is going to be COVID psychosis. OK. Right, how could it not be?

Right, we all had to-- did you have COVID? I did not. I avoided it. You avoided COVID, it just skipped right over you. Skip, like, boom.

OK. You know what? People used to say this about me. Why? I don't get sick because germs are afraid of me.

I suppose COVID was afraid of you. Is this your rent? No, this is not my rent. No, my rent is about shopping. That is my rent.

I'm mad as hell. I'm not going to take it anymore.

“OK, I come to you this week with broken nails”

a bad attitude and another shitty piece of furniture from China that I had to build myself. I hate to admit it, but I do a boat load of shopping on Amazon because Jeff Bezos has turned unsurpassed convenience into my emotional crack cocaine.

Alas, I have finally hit rock bottom.

Look, I enjoy a bargain just like anyone else. And as much as I prefer made in America, it ain't that easy to find. I'll do a hard target search for Maine in the USA when it comes to purchasing things

that I put inside my body, supplements, for example. In my defense, I get it. You pay China prices, you get China quality. And let's face it unless it comes with sweet and sour sauce. Chinese quality is nothing to write home about.

And please, don't get me started on Timo. If Amazon is the marketplace for Chinese shit, Timo is the marketplace for the shit. That's too shitty for Amazon. When a filthy Timo package wrapped completely

in clear tape lands on my doorstep, a full season after I ordered it, I don't get excited. I cringe. Why?

Because it's irrefutable evidence

“that three months earlier, I was online shopping”

with a BAC over point away again. So I buy this chair on Amazon. And while I wasn't expecting a piece of furniture good enough to be queathed to my second cousin once removed, sidebar, it shaped like a high hill shoe.

Don't judge. I was expecting usable. I was expecting a usable chair with only minor assembly. The thing shows up in two boxes with the typical chency hardware.

And instructions that contain zero words, like none, just diagrams were up my big down and left my be right. The chair had only two holes pre-drilled so that the top piece would fit easily into the bottom piece.

And then be screwed tight by lifting a large velcro flap covering an interior cavity, which appeared to be intentionally designed to hide juniors, bang, and/or pornstash. There was just one small problem.

The holes were drilled too close together, like by a mile. So now I either have to put these two awkward pieces of chair back in the boxes, drive them to the UPS door and ship it back to Shanghai,

or I need to drill my own hole in the correct location and try to salvage both the chair and the day. 30 minutes, two broken nails, and a pound of saw does later, I set my high hill chair in the intended corner, stood back to admire my work and thought, what a piece of shit.

I paid $271, not only to have a hunk of junk in my house,

but I had to pull out a never-before-use power tool

to make it sort of functional. This pile of plywood and plethora is one small notch above disposable. If my house ever catches on fire, no one's gonna scream, save the shoe chair,

save the shoe chair. I got news for you, Mr. Bezos. As your primeist of prime members, I'm not gonna take it anymore. From now on, if I can't get my money's worth,

then I want my money back. I paid for a chair that didn't need an Allen wrench, it needed a carpenter, and now you owe me a manager, which would make us about even. I don't want any argument either,

because you can put your wife on the moon, but I have to build my own, effectively designed chair, and pay nearly 300 bucks for the privilege, be better, Bezos, be better. (laughs)

Bravo. Wow, the courage that you've shown

These are real, real issues, Jonathan.

“She's ever ha, my heart, my heart goes out to you.”

Listen, it's been fabulous hanging with you here

in New York.

Your sarcasm, your skepticism, a close

is far too much to deal with. Yeah, no, I meant, yeah, even better. I meant to say, it's a bit much. Anyway, listen, thank you.

“Thank you, sincerely, thank you for all you do,”

and thank you to everyone who makes this podcast run. Listen, be positively grateful for everything, and we hope you have a wonderful week. Take care. (dramatic music)