MK True Crime Show Summer Sizzler, w/ Phil Holloway, Ashleigh Merchant, Dave Aronberg, & Megyn Kelly

Now the MK True Crime Channel is taking us summer break this week, if we want to share a very

“special episode of featuring Ashley, Phil and me, along with Megan Kelly.”

So enjoy our past discussions on Nancy Guthrie, Blake Lively, Henry Noak, and more. We'll be back next week. See you then. Ash Patel has filed a defamation lawsuit now in response against the Atlantic because he's very angry about this hit piece they dropped on him on Friday.

It was authored by Sarah Fitzpatrick, who's formerly of NBC, who's the one who brought us the Julie Swechnick allegations against Brett Kavanaugh, the most bullshit allegations of the bullshit allegations, the most bullshity of all. So not that great when it comes to the track record, but now here she writes with the Atlantic.

And it's a deep dive on cash basically allegedly being a drunk like he's drunk here.

He's drunk there, he's drunk at the office place, he gets drunk at the clubs. One time he was so drunk and passed out and non-responsive, they talked about breaching his door with the FBI ramming thing and cash and they've had to move meetings that were supposed to be in the morning back to the afternoon because he's hung over and he says literally all of that is bullshit.

It is all made up. These are all lies. You were told by me that these were lies before you publish this. You gave me two hours to respond to this in-depth piece, multiple pages just as you print it out, which wasn't sufficient time because in his defense, maybe if you really want

to deal with the Atlantic, you find a witness who's like that's not true. You can find somebody to vouch for you, you put him in touch with the Atlantic, even on background to say like these are lies, no. And now he's actually filed the lawsuit in federal court and D.C. saying screw these guys

“Dave, this is defamation and I'm going to fight back, so what do you make of it?”

Does he have a case? Well it's a very Trumpian move to do that. Trump did that against a Wall Street Journal when they wrote about the birthday card of Jeffrey Epstein and the problem for Caspatel is that, as a public figure, that's correct. And got thrown out and I think that in this case it's not going to even go that far

because I do think that Caspatel, regardless of what the underlying facts here probably does not want to go through the discovery process because if you sue someone for defamation, you open yourself up to a deposition and discovery about your drinking and one thing frankly, we saw the chugging of the beers at the US Olympic ceremony when they were backstage, when they were getting the gold medal for the hockey team.

And so when he was asked at a press conference, they asked him, is this true? And he said, he sort of evaded the question about whether he drinks too much and I just wonder if he really wants to undergo this type of scrutiny. And if you continue with this lawsuit not only do you open yourself up to discovery, but

“you have to show that the other side acted with what's called actual malice and that's”

because Caspatel is a public figure. It's not just a typical defamation lawsuit. You've got to prove defamation plus, which is that they intended to destroy you, that they knew what the facts were and they went ahead anyways because they had actual malice. It's a high standard and I just don't think this lawsuit's going to have much in the

term of legs. Yeah. So they either, you have to prove they knew it was false or they recklessly disregarded the matter of whether it was true or false.

They didn't give a shit basically, I was like, I want to publish this and I'm going

to publish it. Here's Caspatel denying the allegations on Tuesday, so at 20. I do want to give you an opportunity to respond directly to the allegations and the Atlantic article that you're unexplained absence has created a national security risk. And beyond that, can you say definitively that you have not been intoxicated or absent during

your tenure as FBI director, I can say unequivocally that I never listen to the fake news mafia. And as when they got louder, it just means I'm doing my job. This FBI director has been on the job twice as many days as every director before me.

What that means is I've taken half as many days off as those before me. What that means is I've taken a third less vacation than those before me. I'm like an everyday American who loves his country, loves this for the hockey and champions my friends when they raise a gold medal and invite me into celebrate.

I've never been intoxicated on the job and that is why we filed a $250 million defamation

lawsuit and any one of you that wants to participate, bring it on. I'll see you in court. I like cash, I know it's cash, not incredibly well, but somewhat.

I don't say I don't say a going anywhere because when you zero in on what she alleges

in the piece, even though I don't have any respect for this author, it's things like this. His drinking has become a source of concern among government officials. She cites sources who worry his behavior has become a threat to public safety. I'm sure there are plenty people within the FBI who can't stand him. Who did speak to the Atlantic to say he sucks, he's drunk, he's a threat to public safety.

And that's all she really needs to prove.

“So I tell you what, I think that Dave did an excellent job in setting out a lot of the legal”

reasons why you're correct Megan, this was not really going to go anywhere his lawsuit. And look, for defamation, he's got to prove that it's a false statement of fact. And as the judge who threw this case out pointed out, a lot of this might be rhetorical, hyperbally, and you know that way. When he didn't throw this case out, he flew, he threw, there was a different judge who

threw out Trump's lawsuit against Wall Street Journal and cash had a separate defamation

lawsuit against a different guy who raised the issue of his drinking, which also just got

thrown out on the paper. So the administration is not doing that great on getting defamation. Yeah, that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing. Historical hyperbally in statements of opinion, things like that do not rise to the level

of defamation. But what he might have, and this is, you know, if we have a longer discussion on this, he might have other claims like fault slide and things with that nature that might survive. But in general, he's going to have a very tough time, but I tell you what we can do. Those of us here, the MK true crime show, the free of us here actually Dave and I, a lot

of our colleagues from the other two news shows that are dropping next week, we're going to be in Las Vegas at the end of May at CrimeCon. So what we will do is I volunteer that we're going to go to the Poodle Room out in

Las Vegas because director Patel says that it's false where he was claimed to, said it's

also known that he's, he's noted drinks excess at the Poodle Room in Las Vegas, where he spends parts of his weekend. So we're going to go out there, Megan, and just for you, we're going to personally investigate and we're going to see if he's there and we'll report back. And also I expect drinking to excess, just so you can see what that's like.

Well, you know, you remember, you can't judge something, you remember. It's familiar with it. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

You know, the method actors, your method lawyers in doing your legal analysis, here's one thing I will say is in his favor. It's going to be, he's not going to enjoy this process at all. He probably is hoping that it gets thrown out on a 12 B6 motion, which is a motion to dismiss before you've had to exchange any discovery, any papers with each other.

And it probably will get thrown out on a 12 B6, but he's probably hoping it will, because if it doesn't get thrown out on a motion to dismiss, they're going to be able to say, give us all your receipts for every bottle of wine you've had over the past year and half since you took this office, give us every single receipt or credit card statement. When you charge drinks at the poodle room, this place needs in DC that they alleged he

goes to, we're going to suppose witnesses who have seen you there. We're going to talk to your girlfriend about the level that you've done. We're going to actually start to peanut being bartenders and figuring out just how drunk you are. It's not going to go well for him because he's a drinker, there's no, there's nothing

wrong with being a drinker. They're trying to paint something else, but just the whole process will be a humiliation actually. But I do want to say one other thing. One thing that's good for him is that they only give him two hours to respond, because

generally, when it comes to that, like giving somebody time to respond, unless you need to get the story on the air, they need a hit print on this, we've got a scoop that you're about to launch an attack on Turkey, and it's going to happen tonight.

“It's sundown, and it's noon, then you would say you've got two hours to respond, right?”

Like I'm not holding my story, you know, because they can't hijack your story by saying, "I need a 24 hours, no." But like there was no rush to get, he drinks too much, and they had to use a ramming mechanism one time or thought about doing that. There was no rush, and what that is potentially evidence of is actual malice against it.

That's the best fact, Megan. I mean, the fact that they did that, that they only give them two hours, that is probably his best fact. But honestly, I think both of these people, they've gotten what they wanted out, you know, the purpose is already served with both of them.

She got her story out, people now are thinking, "Oh, while he's a drunk, you know, we already kind of knew that, but there's some extra sources." So they're just, you know, that's validity for what people may have already thought, because of the other stories, but cash also served his purpose. He's filed a lawsuit.

It's probably going to get dismissed on the 12-B-6 probably, but it serves as purpose. He said it in that press interview, you know, if you come after me, I'm going to come after you. And you can't make that statement, and then not follow through.

“So we sort of had to file a lawsuit, and I think it also serves a purpose of mourning”

other people, "Hey, you know, watch out, be careful.

do this, because you can't defend against the defamation suit."

“So I think the lawsuit has probably already served its purpose.”

So let's talk about this, this twit, Mackenzie Chirilla, have you guys watched this movie yet on Netflix? Oh, yeah, we did a show on it last week. It's nuts. It's called The Crash, and it's about this young woman, Mackenzie Chirilla, from Strong's

Villa, Ohio, and she was dating, she was in high school, she was dating this young man, and he was in her car, and so was his friend. Her boyfriend was Dominic Russo, the friend was Davian Flanagan, and she crashed her car. She was driving it. She was the only one wearing a seat belt.

The car had been going 100 miles an hour in the early morning hours one day, and she crashed it into some structure.

“Both boys died, she was the only one who lived, and again, the only one with the seat belt,”

the car is, I mean, in tatters, there's like nothing left to it. And the, this new Netflix show, The Crash, shows a bit about how things got very complicated around this, you know, seemingly just awful car crash very quickly. Here's a bit from the trailer 24 A. Let's split second, change all of our lives forever.

It didn't add up, it was hard to comprehend that she could just drive into a wall.

I would never see her purposely wanting to hurt them.

This was a clearly a toxic relationship. We needed to get a full picture of whom Mackenzie Scherella was. You can go to yourself. Most significant piece of evidence, there was no break-a. This was not an accident.

But took place inside that car. And on top of all that, it's come out that she was extremely abusive toward her boyfriend, verbally abusive, and possibly more than that. She was ultimately convicted. It was murdered, right?

She was convicted of murder of both of these boys, and she went away to jail where she's been for over a year.

And now we get reports that, first of all, one appeal has failed.

But she's pursuing a separate appeal now that is going to go up to the Ohio Supreme Court. There's a question about whether she was adequately assisted by council in meeting a filing deadline for among other things. And she's only what 17 years old, she was 17 when she did this. So she's been sentenced to life in prison, but with a minimum of 15 years before she can

be considered for parole. So she could get parole. But the news is not only is she inching closer to an appeal, or actually having an appeal heard, but the latest drop shows that her behavior in jail, you guys, has been absolutely awful.

Law and crime was reporting on this, and she has been violating the rules in jail seemingly every other day. She varies from where minor things, like cinching or somehow tailoring her jail issued sweatshirt, so that it's tight and kind of saucy looking on her, which is not allowed to having video calls with a woman in which they show each other their breasts and sex toys

to provocative behavior with the guards, raising her voice to the guards being extremely nasty to the guards, according to the guards, and I guess just generally behaving badly in stealing things. She's accused of stealing things like from the commissary, and so on. She denies that, but law and crime in Anjanette Levy was interviewing a guy who advises

people who are going to jail and had a behave in his number one takeaway was don't do that.

“This stuff will all factor into whether or not you're going to get parole as I think”

she and her family are convinced to actually that she will, right? They think she's in there wrongly, they maintain this was an accident. She's got some disorder relating to her blood pressure that causes her to blackout, and that's what happened here, and that she's really just this sweet misunderstood teenager.

ask that psychologist to kind of analyze Mackenzie, and it was interesting because she had actually listened to hundreds of hours of jail calls, and so especially between the family between her parents and her, and it was really interesting because she really blamed the family, and said that this girl, I mean, obviously Mackenzie's to blame, but that

the parents had never taught her consequences and that she really didn't understand consequences,

“and I think that's what we're seeing now, even in jail, she doesn't get it.”

She doesn't get consequences. She can't follow the rules, she can't conform to behavior, and it's really going to hurt her when she does go up for parole, because I don't think anybody's letting her out any time soon, although I have my opinion on whether or not she did have good trial counsel. I think she didn't because they had what's called a bench trial, instead of a jury trial,

and you never wave that. You don't wave a jury trial, unless you have some really, really, really good reasons to do that, and so she was a likeable. She was not likeable, but at least you can maybe get a hold out, like Phil was talking about earlier.

Maybe you got a stealth jury, at least it's a chance, where you know this judge, I mean, she wasn't likeable to the judge, she wasn't going to be likeable to the jury, and then they had this pots defense, you mentioned, you know, this blood pressure thing, which was just crap, honestly, and it was like she'd come up with the last minute and whispered it to her mom, "Hey, you know, maybe I can get off if I say I had, you know, a pots episode,

where it made no sense, because if you had pots, you wouldn't have the gas pedal fully depressed, and to go 100 miles an hour, you had to literally have the gas pedal all the way down." Well, I mean, it's just a hot mess. It is literally, it's just a hot mess, and two kids lost their lives, and it is awful

because she clearly drove them into a wall. Hmm. I have, say, Phil, to me, this person is a sociopath. She killed two innocent boys, didn't have any guilt over it from what anyone could see, and

that's exactly the kind of person I never want to be released.

It's one thing of your sociopath who somehow has learned to manage your absolute lack of empathy or emotion and you're not running around hurting people, but if you're a sociopath

“and you've murdered two people, you should stay in jail forever because you cannot be”

trusted. You, what's going to stop you from murdering the next couple? So my scientific wild ass guess is that you should probably have some sociopathic tendencies maybe an outright disorder. I also see a healthy dose of narcissism.

You can see that in the social media post, you can see that in the reporting by our friends at law and crime related to what she is doing while she's incarcerated, not obeying the rules. It's all about her, her, her. But there's also another piece of this that we see oftentimes, I know, the three of us

see it in our practices with young people, sometimes they, well, oftentimes, if not always,

they don't understand, they can't comprehend risk the element of risk or the idea of it and until the human brain is like 25 or 26 years old and when you see young people are using substances and things like we've seen in this case, it can actually delay that development of the brain and the ability to understand risk and to follow up on something actually said about whether or not there's going to be a new trial that should be based on what

we call ineffective assistance of Council. I agree that waving a jury trial is always a gamble because you only have to then hear the prosecutor, you only have to prove it to one person versus 12, but there's another piece of this. If you're going to present a medical defense, which is what apparently this was, they

did not have a medical expert. So I don't know how you could effectively try to present such a defense without having an expert.

“And so I think that if there is going to be a new trial, it would have to be a ruling”

by the appeals courts based on whether or not the trial council was effective. And if they're ineffective, if she has ineffective assistance, a council that violates for six to a minute, but on the facts of the case, I think the evidence is very clear the conviction should stand. Yeah.

And here's what they were trying to avoid. She's, she can do the I'm sweet, I'm innocent, I'm only 17 acts for a while and then you see some of the tapes that they had thanks to the social media recordings and also just recordings at her boyfriend's phone. Here's a sample of how that would have gone over.

It's not 24 B. Dom, it's bumping the door. Because I can't help the door. I can't sit here and find a little like we're going to go to dinner, you don't hope in the door.

I'm going to let you know that right now. You're going to come open the door right now, where there's going to be a serious f*cking problem, okay, ready, I'm going to count the time, the door's going to open, okay? You're going to open the door and come slide behind the door. Like a little f*cking bitch.

It's up to the point of the door, maybe I can come outside and talk for a minute. No, we're not fighting outside. You're going to open the door right now.

Why? Why do we go?

“I'm a mother of China called me, I'm a high-level high-comp I got. I don't think you hang up on me, we're done, I'm leaving.”

I can't see if there's no I can do it. I can't. I can't see if there's no I can't do it. I can't. I can't see no little bitch. I can't look through my house with how you act. It's just so good as that.

Okay, I'm going to break into your house.

I'm going to look at what the ice will find. If you don't know let me in the house, then I'd be fine every night. We are gone. Some of the text messages that were introduced in the trial were her writing to Dom. I told you it's my way or the highway. I would watch your back from now on and your house and your car and your life.

And any of your friends and Dom responds, "Kenzie, this isn't right and you know it." Just two, three days ago, they released additional texts. This is from March 2022 in which the boyfriend allegedly texted that Mackenzie

"hit me" and "thried to throw a rocket me."

Later that month he also warned her that she was "driving like a maniac" according to the documents. I mean, they had this girl dead to rights, Dave.

“That's, I think, why they decided to go for the judge and maybe just throw themselves in the mercy of like an older man.”

Who might have mercy on this 17-year-old girl in the way. Juries probably wouldn't. I don't know. That's my guess that they thought this older male judge might feel some speck of empathy for her or might bite on the blood pressure thing. But her bad behavior in the prison does tell us perfectly with her bad behavior in life. And I would be remiss if I didn't put it out.

It's her parents' fault. Yes. It is. The mother is a complete enabler if you watch this show on Netflix. The mother and the father, the father, I mean, you only want to come out too. Yeah, the only one who came off worse than Mackenzie in that show were her parents. Who just enabled her, explained away all her issues. They came across so terribly and they're still standing by their daughter,

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This poor kid Henry Noah was on his way home in the evening and was attacked by a man who happens to be seek. And it is relevant because he's walking around London with an enormous sword or three on him. We have video that we released exclusively last week or before the verdict that showed him another day walking with a sword. That was as long as most people's leg just casually affixed to his hip walking down the streets of London. You know, this is a lot to allow somebody in the name of religion.

And this guy had multiple weapons on him where you're not allowed to conceal carry or otherwise carry a gun. This is the video showing now. He's got like a sword. Like one of the swords that you use when you're sort of fighting in college athletics. And he's casually just sort of walking around London with it. We now have a picture of the actual sword that he used to stab Henry. But they had some sort of in, I don't know, confrontation. Henry said something to him.

Something like you're a bad man, aren't you? And it turns out that this guy, the defendant, was saying his name is Viktor Vikram Digua. I'm a bad man. Like he was asserting it affirmatively. And he stabbed Henry. He stabbed him five times. He stabbed him in the lung and he stabbed him in his legs as he was running away. So this poor kid tried to run and eventually they called 911, which is 999 over in Great Britain. And the witness said, like that this kid had been stabbed when they got there, they treated Henry like he was the assailant.

And this victim, Vikram, who was fine, because Henry hadn't laid a hand on him, said he was the victim of a racial crime.

Henry, while dying, said I've been stabbed and these police officers refused to believe him.

“Within minutes, he'd be dead, drowning on his own blood in his lungs. It's despicable.”

Every single cop on that scene should be fired. Vikram Digua has been found guilty, thank God, of murdering Henry. And all along, they have not shown us the video tape. There's video tape because Henry was videotaping it. And then there's also body cam tape. They have refused to release it. Henry's dad, Mark, right before they released the tape, came out with some scathing comments. Here's a flavor of that in 6.

Henry had been stabbed multiple times, and as his chest filled with blood, he tried to escape. He was chased, abused, and filmed by Vikram Digua and others. With his final words, he told officers that he could not breathe. He told them he had been stabbed. In fact, Henry told officers that he could not breathe nine times. He told them he had been stabbed four times. The response from one officer was, "I don't think you have me." The police have said they were misled by the murderer, and that the scene when they arrived was complex.

Unfortunately, it seems to us that truth is much simpler. The police were told by our son himself, and by a member of the public who called 999, that they heard someone shout that they had been stabbed. But the police did not believe them. Henry was pulled across the gravel, his hands forced behind his back, and he was placed in handcuffs. Instead of being treated as a dying victim, police formally arrested Henry for assault and read him his rights. That was the last thing he heard. Henry did not die with dignity. He did not die with the care he deserved. He lost consciousness before anyone believed him.

The way he was treated was inhumane and degrading.

Well, that's got superhero strength to stand there and be able to say all of that. The mom is standing next to him crying, Henry's little sister standing there, upset next to him. I mean, it's the worst nightmare.

“Then they did release the footage, and it is disturbing. I found this genuinely disturbing.”

You can hear his pleas for help, and this completely callous police force that just refuses to take it seriously. For no reason we can discern other than my judgment, their presumptions about the respective races and who must be evil and who isn't. And they had it exactly wrong, so if you were warning unsought eight here. Well, you know mate, huh? Do you want me to hurt other than him?

Yeah, my brother, he's took my tab and off, so I grabbed all my head. Are you injured? Yeah, yeah, I've got swollen eye, little bruised eye. Step back a little bit for me.

Someone flagged these down.

Look at this, dad. Let's get you out of there, shall we? I was in pain to sleep for you to start. I've got three of them grab his arm. Hold on, let's come running on the court.

It's happened to you, right? It's done. You've been stabbed, twelve hours. I'm good. I'm good.

I don't think you have me. You're coming, aren't you? You're coming, aren't you? You're coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

You're coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I've got a red leaf, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you?

I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm coming, aren't you? I'm sorry that he was handcuffed and arrested in the moments before he lost consciousness.

When his killer made that call to police and he called the police, not the ambulance service, he lied on that call. He lied when police attended the scene. He continued to lie as Henry's condition deteriorated. That's not good enough, Phil.

This is a known risk when you approach a crime scene like this that possibly you know is a stabbing that someone could be lying to you and you used to be a cop and your mind has to be open to the fact that it might be the one with the brown skin and the one with the white skin might just happen in this circumstance to be the victim. You know, when I put my ex-cop had on Meghan, a couple of things come to mind.

First off, knobs obviously can kill, but so can the woke mind virus and that seems to be

what has infected certainly the police officers that I think we saw on that video. If not many others, not only in the UK, but elsewhere across the globe and even here in the United States, there's no reason in my view to handcuff that man that way. I even have he not been stabbed. He's complaining of injuries.

He's not presenting any kind of threat. The first duty of law enforcement on the scene is to render aid where it needs to be rendered and not to just sort of make snap decisions on who may or may not be telling the truth.

“If you arrive on scene as someone's injured or complaining of an injury, you need to go ahead”

and deal with that in a responsible way. And honestly, someone that I know who's in law enforcement in the UK shares with me that they're chief and I agree with it is that those officers are guilty also of crime. I think their guilty of some type of negligent homicide and I think they should be prosecuted. They should be sitting in a jail cell alongside the defendant who is guilty of an absolute brutal murder

with that knife. The whole thing is just, it's unspeakable. It's indefensible. And I'm sorry, I'm glad they apologize, but that's not enough. There's not enough.

There needs to be, we need vengeance here. We need some type of accountability for those police officers because that man's death is... Imagine if the races were reversed. There would be riots in the street. There were.

There were. The incident became public while they were on trial. Nothing.

Finally, he says something about it.

But he was quick to kneel for George Floyd. They had protests in London after George Floyd.

“But here, because the races were what they were.”

They did nothing. A political commentator, Carol Malone, on GB News, making similar points at nine. We should call this out for what it was. If Henry Novak had a brown or a black skin, there would have been uproar above this. If it had been a white person that killed a black or a brown person, there would have been

national uproar. Every member of this government would have been screaming about it from the rooftops. Look what they did was George Floyd. The last thing, it's interesting. Henry's last words, why I can't breathe.

George Floyd's last words. He couldn't breathe either. It's the media as well. Every other TV station, bar this one, has ignored this.

Almost every paper has ignored this.

The only political party that does actually acknowledge what is going on here is reform. Nobody. My thoughts are that the police knew this man was dying. You could see in the video that you showed his hands. I mean, they had to know that.

And so it doesn't matter the color of skin. It doesn't matter what the other person is saying. He is clearly dying.

“And I think the problem with the police is that they are quick to cut someone when they”

don't need to cut someone. And they're quick to just rush to judgment. This man was not fighting. He wasn't trying.

But when the police were there, he was completely compliant.

You don't see him doing anything. So absent officer safety reasons. There is absolutely no reason for the police to put this man in custody.

“And I think we just jump to that because they immediately believe this guy.”

They immediately believe him. And I mean, he's not even carrying the type of weapon that's allowed. You know, there's a law in Britain that you're allowed to carry a weapon. If it's for religious purposes. But the weapon that he had was not even the right type of weapon.

I mean, it's essentially a knife that he was carrying. The police should have seen that and should have taken that into account.

And then maybe this poor kid this child because he was a child would not have died.

In police custody with the last thing he heard being that you're being arrested. It's just it's awful. What do you think Dave should the cops face charges? Yeah, yes, yes, this was absolutely disgraceful. And I have to give some responsibility here to cure Starmer.

This is cure Starmer's Britain.

“You know, he is Neville Chamberlain 2.0.”

I mean, this is this is an extension of how he treats those who march in the streets every week. A call for Jihad, who call for violence against Jews. And now as a result, two of students are told to hide their identities on University campus and Britain. Two of schools have to close periodically for security.

MPs are given body guards because of the threats from these radical groups.

And what is cure Starmer do he appeases. And I got to believe that the police officers here took their cues from the leader. Starting something new, especially a business is hard. So much work goes into this that you're not entirely sure we'll work out. And it can be hard to make that leap of faith.

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Go to Shopify.com/mktc. That's Shopify.com/mktc. This is the mystery that we've been raising on this show for days now. You remember initially the reports were from the sheriff that Nancy was discovered missing after she failed to show up to church. Here's Pima County Sheriff, Chris Nano's trying to explain.

Sometime earlier that morning they got a call from somebody at the church. She said, "Hey, your mom's not here. The family went to the house at 11 o'clock in the morning. The family got noticed from somebody at church that she was not at church." Someone at church notified them.

She was not at church. I could play you four more. Okay, he said it repeatedly. Well, like many of Sheriff Nano's statements, that did not check out. Because she had not attended service in person in Arizona since the pandemic, as broken by the Daily Mail.

And every day, since the Daily Mail broke that, we at the mk show have been asking.

“So how did the family know that she wasn't allegedly at church?”

Like, what is that report based on? If she wasn't actually going to church, then we found out that there was a live stream. But that you couldn't see if you were a congregant who was participating in it. We reported that to you. Then we found out that there was a chat along with the live stream.

And we speculated here it could possibly be that people reported in the chat that Nancy wasn't there. That this 84 year old was joining the live stream chat. We had no idea and no one would answer our questions. But now we know that Nancy did regularly gather with a small group of friends on Sundays to watch a live stream, not of her church in Arizona, but of her daughter Savannah's church in New York City.

Fox News reporting that last night. After Nancy did not show up to watch this live stream on February 1st, Sunday, last Sunday morning, a friend contacted Savannah's sister Annie, which then set off the desperate search that still has not ended. The pastor of the Guthrie's New York City Church spoke out today on the today show. I sat down with Pastor Michael Rosenda in the very views she and Savannah often praying.

And it's also Nancy's church, right?

“Yeah, over the years, Nancy would visit and we got a chance to meet her and know her a little bit.”

And then during the pandemic, we started out of necessity filming our services, our prayers, our sermons, and putting it out there into the world. And during that time, Nancy started to watch. Okay, just a word. It's very annoying when these Johnny come late leads to the story.

Baman, try to pass judgment on those of us who have been here reporting it from the beginning aggressively.

“And with misinformation, and that's what leads me to Hall Monitor Brian Stelter.”

Hall Monitor is out there tweeting the following.

Online sluths and internet commentators have so'd confusion in recent days about how exactly Nancy Guthrie's absence was first noticed on February 1st.

Here's the deal. And then he goes on to explain what went down. Okay, it's not online sluths and internet commentators who have so'd this confusion. It came directly from the sheriff multiple times Hall Monitor, do your homework. Online sluths and commentators have been trying to piece together what's real based on the sheriff's 180 reversals of his own comments if you just wait 24 hours.

He is the one who said she didn't show up at church and someone at church noticed and called her family.

The misinformation around this has just been pretty legion that sheriff, I mean, she was snatched from her bed. Then he had to take that back. Quite a few that he's had to clarify nobody's perfect, but spare me the sanctimonious parachuting in with your corrective record, Hall Monitor. Okay, do your own homework before you try to lecture those of us who have been following this in its every detail. Because actually some of us really do care about getting the facts right and Hall Monitor, some of us actually do have to worry about this kind of thing,

happening to us or our loved ones, so we're really fucking invested in making sure we get every fact correct unlike you. We used to sit there with your tweets and think that you can weigh in and correct people like this show or Ashley bandfield or anybody else who is trying in good faith to get the facts of this case right of had it. We sent Phil Holloway to Houston because we wanted someone of our own, I'm sorry, to to two sons, we wanted someone of our own there to be researching the facts and making sure that we're getting things right.

Phil used to be a cop, did you know that? And now of course he's a lawyer, very smart lawyer and also a host at MK True Crime, so he is neck deep in True Crime cases, he understands reporting and he's been on the opposite side as a member of law enforcement as well. And he has been on the ground reporting now for about a day there in Tucson, Phil, welcome, thank you, great to see you.

“So what are your first thoughts having been on the ground for about 24 hours?”

Look, one thing that a good lawyer will do, whether you're a prosecutor, defense attorney, if you're a criminal lawyer and you're involved in a criminal case. One thing that's important to do is to go to the scene of the crime, so that you can go on the ground, right, you want to see what the crime scene looks like, you want to see the terrain, you want to just visualize how things are located with respect to other things that may be adventurous in this case. The mom's house versus Annie's house. So the one thing that I first noticed when I got out there besides the giant scrum of obviously media personnel that have every inch of this very narrow roadway just kind of jam packed with their vehicles and their equipment.

I noticed that the terrain at the house and around the house would be something that would be very difficult to conduct an investigation in. As you see there on the screen, you've got a lot of the cacti, you've got shrubs that are, you know, two, three, four foot high, lots of things that would block the view of the house, the front door, you know, from the roadway and vice versa. So if you have the rain camera, it's not, it might see who's standing at the door, but it's not going to see what's out past all that shrubbery. And so I sort of took a walk around and I looked at the area across the street from the house and I saw more of this, you know, rocky desert traditional desert type terrain and it's just, it would be a very difficult challenging place to do an.

I've also talked to some locals here who parenthetically tell me, you know, they don't have a lot of trust in the sheriff. They, they tell me that the, the morale and the department is not so great that he has leadership problems within the department. So I started putting all this together and it tracks with the things that you just went through with respect to the sheriff, you know, I, on the way out here yesterday on the plane.

“I said an email to to the sheriff's office asking, hey, look, is there anybody there that would be willing to talk with me for five or ten minutes, because I would, I was interested in maybe doing it interview and showing the cops perspective, right?”

But then tell me and tell our audience what it's like from the perspective of law enforcement, working a case like this where you're, you know, long on.

Basically a mystery and short on leads and you're up all night, every night working tirelessly trying to solve a case, right?

That takes a toll on officers. It takes a toll on their families. It's just very, very grueling and hard work. So I was looking to see if I could get someone to talk about that side of things. I wasn't like looking for additional, you know, information about the case itself. And you know, I got a very short response back saying, this sheriff is the spokesman for this investigation, and he is not granting any additional one-on-one interviews. So I guess he's just completely checked out, which makes sense. I mean, he's given some press conferences, Megan, that quite frankly, we're left me scratching my head.

And he released the scene way, way too early. You know, you have these blood droplets that were in the driveway. And we had people that were able to go and access those within a day or so after this crime occurred.

Lots of things about this, you just leave me scratching my head.

Yeah, they compromised it now because if and when they ever make an arrest, that person's going to say anything that is used against him from the crime scene, they're going to say it's compromised. What do you mean? They had members of the media traipsing through the front porch, the inside, the garage, the outside, how can you trust anything there? There was no chain of custody on the house or the area around it. So this will wind up being a problem for them if they ever find a perpetrator. Fill the deadline for the ransom has passed officially.

And it does not appear they paid it according to TMZ, who has the Bitcoin address. And to me, it now seems clear from Savannah's latest message that all involved have concluded this was a hoax.

If she didn't think it was a hoax, she would have paid this 6 million.

So is that your understanding or your impression now? It's been my impression from the beginning, but since I've been here, it's sort of solidified that in my mind.

“I think that somebody was obviously trying to extort her or basically con her out of some money, right?”

But I don't think it's the people who took and probably killed Nancy Griffin. And can I talk more about the blood droplets that you were just mentioning? You know, there's video of that. We've seen it. I think Brian Anton was out there and he took some video showing those blood droplets. And I've been talking with others here on the ground and getting a better feel for what that looked like.

And then, you know, it's some of the video that I took that I think maybe you just shared showed that the house. It's like this semi-circular rock driveway. It's sort of in the middle between the entrances and exits on that semi-circular drive. There's this lots of cacti and strawberry and other things like I mentioned. And so what you, what you can sort of surmise happen is that there was some struggle in that house that caused her to bleed.

It wasn't the kind of bleeding that you would expect if, say, you cut an artery. It was little droplets. More like think about if you have ever had a bloody nose and you, you know, have blood that's just gravity's taking it straight down.

“And it's, you know, dropping droplets on the ground, okay?”

So it wasn't heavy bleeding. And we also know that there's some DNA inside the house. I mean, it could be touched DNA from the cells left behind by whoever or it could also be blood in there. It stands for reason that if you had blood droplets on the doorway or the doorstep, then you might have blood droplets just inside the door.

And then those droplets come out to the top of the semi-circular driveway and then they end. And so what that suggests to me is that somebody put her in a vehicle in a lower way from there. And so if that's the case, why didn't we have the search plane up that the sheriff's office had within hours, okay?

And, you know, the whole thing, this points to a scenario where maybe it was a burglary going bad. And this is not necessarily inconsistent with Ashley Banfield's reporting either. Something happened with somebody and it was some type of an altercation. Family members can commit burglary too. I'm not saying that Ashley Banfield is mistaken about any of that is consistent.

Or it could be just a random stranger going in. But somebody went in there and it was a burglary.

“She was assaulted and I think that they took her out of there so that they didn't leave her behind.”

Because there's lots of evidence on a body whether it's alive or breathing that can identify the attacker. So there could be, I've seen cases where someone was shot in the head with a small caliber rifle or something.

And the bullet never leaves and it just makes very small blood droplets, okay?

And sometimes the body, I've seen one case where the head was taken to. So that the killer could you know prevent law enforcement from finding that bullet and matching it back to some gun. So there's all sorts of reasons that come to my mind why a killer or an attacker would remove Nancy from that home. And none of them are good. This whole thing feels like it's.

“I don't want to say a stay okay, and hopefully with this new information this afternoon maybe maybe we will get some kind of breakthrough.”

But the general feeling around here up until that announcement that you just made about the maybe a picture of a of a person of interest or something like that until that it's the feeling here is that this is a stay okay. And that law enforcement is just at the end of their investigative lead right now. I know what you mean because stale is how it's feeling.

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This is a kind of a wacky story where I didn't know this ruby rose she's stunning. She I guess was in orange is the new black and she's claiming 20 years ago that she was at this nightclub in Australia and she's Australian with Katy Perry. And that I mean it's graphic but I talked about it with Katy Perry's ex husband yesterday that Katy Perry went over to Ruby Rose who's head was on the lap of a friend sounds like she was not feeling well she'd been over served. And that Katy Perry allegedly pulled her own underwear aside and rubbed her badge on Ruby Rose's face.

It wasn't even just like an exposure it was a touching which in any world would be sexual assault. Assuming it's unwanted right and Ruby Rose is saying it was 100% unwanted and then adds another detail which I have to say. I don't know she then claims that she then threw up on Katy Perry so disgusted was she. Now it's starting to sound a little unbelievable to me I don't know but she was drunk so it could it's possible she threw up because she was such it was over served. So now she's telling the story I don't know why now Katy Perry posted a comment under a Justin Bieber.

Meem or post about his appearance at Coachella and Katy Perry posted something online and this this Ruby Rose saw it and didn't she didn't negative reaction to it.

And the next thing you know she's telling the story and has dredged up this whole thing saying you basically you assaulted me.

I'm not going to file a police report but you know you did it and Katy Perry's team came out and said no she didn't she didn't do it. She didn't do it and she didn't do it and she didn't do it and she didn't do it or you accuse people all the time and they always deny it and she was like girl it's on and now she did file a criminal complaint.

She has some sort of proof I don't know what the proof exactly is.

Where we are and how we got. I feel like they're going to get into a mud russling pit and like fight it out like that's what we have here it's like you were a ho you did this 20 years ago, but you did this I mean it's just crazy to me that this is happening. But so what we've got really is 20 years ago she was apparently at this nightclub. This is one thing I want to pay attention to she says Ruby Rose says she was in her best friends lap when this happened so I'm really curious what this best friend says.

Because if her best friend saw her being sexually assaulted she's vulnerable she's on her lap and she sees this happen she's going to say something I mean that doesn't make any sense why she wouldn't say anything.

“So I'm really curious what her story is and also the nightclub I think it was the manager of the owner.”

They talked to him and I know it's been 20 years, but he didn't see anything.

I mean if you see Katy Perry literally take her vagina out in a public place and rub it on in drunk ladies face someone's going to see that. Like someone's going to see that right and someone take it out like it's not normal like it's like a set of keys and just rub it around like this is not normal activity someone's going to say something so. I don't know 20 years later I'm just not thinking that it's going to get very far but it's definitely hurting Katy Perry. I mean now that we've got other people you know talking about hey she she molested me she did this stuff to me.

“But Ruby Rose has a history of saying that other people have sexually assaulted her and just throwing it out you know hey I was raped by a ton of men on the set she said of her last.”

Last her last program you know when she left it she said I was sick of being raped by all these men on on my show but she didn't make any allegations so I don't know something really fishy her making.

Here's the manager the club manager statement. He it was a place called Spice Market he's spoken out about the wild night saying as follows quote. They were drunk they were not paralytic or anything just like any other person drinking at a nightclub he told the herald son. He claimed he did not see any alleged sexual assault take place or any vomiting referring to Rose's allegation says she threw up when this happened to her. Ruby Rose is now saying that she's finalized all her police reports she also does seem to say though.

“That she's got proof fell that she's got she's got I think she suggested she might have photos and maybe even contemporary is notes and a witness hold on she says.”

After it I threw up in her I told the story publicly but changed it to be a funny little drunk story because I didn't know how else to handle it. She kept it a secret but she says she's more than welcome to sue me if this is not true but she won't because it happened. I have photos and it was literally in public and witness by multiple people. Plus there's so much more that happened in the years leading up to her silly song that she won't want me discussing the psychological manipulation was strong with that one.

Okay so your thoughts on her alleged proof and how she can make this case. Well maybe she's got a hotline 1-800 if you've seen Katy Perry's lady parks called this number. You know I I tell you this whole thing on its face just it doesn't have the ring of believability to me. I'm sorry it just doesn't I understand that sexual assault is a terrible thing and nobody's denying that but another thing is terrible. It's also terrible to falsely accuse somebody of it and this person has a history of it. Look we got to start with the fact that she's drunk admittedly drunk.

And when you're drunk you're unable to perceive things accurately when they occur and you're unable to oftentimes recall them accurately later when you're called on call upon through to recall them. And she's admitted that she was so and she threw up which suggests to me maybe that's more about the amount and quantity of the alcohol because even the manager there says that they were under the influence so maybe that has something to do with the fact that she threw up if she did in fact do so. And then you have prior inconsistent statements now the things where she's claimed misconduct against other third parties you know it's going to be very hard to prove or disprove those because like this one that's going to come down to being a swearing match but.

Setting aside the fact that she's probably made false claims against other people and is a drama queen you have a situation here where she see this one is made false or prior inconsistent statements in the law. And that is something that cuts directly to a witnesses credibility and you've add to that guys the fact that a witness this manager remembers it and doesn't doesn't cannot corroborate any other details other than that they were there and they were drinking. That's not to get together and what you've got is a big ball of nothing you got probably a false claim certainly one that's not able to be substantiated to the point of making any kind of claim and court even a civil claim in my view.

And rub is it on your friends face right if you know I don't even know how you do as a woman like what you don't like kind of getting it's straddled.

You got to like let me with my lead it's so weird to me like it's just so odd and then she's throwing up like it's just the whole thing seems bizarre and now someone has a camera during all this I mean they're taking photos of it makes no sense right it seems like those photos would have leaked by now.

“I think how much they were. Dave raises an interesting or Phil raises an interesting point Dave on prior inconsistent statements because even ruby rose is saying.”

After I threw up on her I told the story publicly but changed it to be equal funny little drunk story because I didn't know how else to handle it.

Later she agreed to help me get my U.S. visa so I kept it a secret but I did tell y'all she wasn't a good person I was in my early 20s I'm now 40 it's taken almost two decades to say this publicly.

And she's got a great flash he's found her voice and so on but she appears to be stealing herself for on camera statements in which she's already told this story Dave in a way that. Yeah it certainly sounds like it's not going to be I was sexually assaulted and I threw up in disgust at her. And making it's going to be back on with you and my co-host Phil and Ashley and this one is a tough one because both sides here have a wrap sheet because both of them have made accusations or been accused of things that will harm their credibility.

“The accuser here has alleged and others have raped her and it doesn't look like there was any corroboration there and here K Perry also has been accused of sexual assault in 2019 from this actor Josh Klaus who.”

And she pulled his pants down and exposed his genitals to others and what's going on in Hollywood right I mean this is like these accusations of her to go up to people like also there's a female TV host in Georgia who reportedly. She accused Katy Perry of harassing her that same year and then there's video of Katy Perry. So we're having Justin Bieber's butt and looking at the camera saying sorry so you have that right so you have on me we have that okay yeah. Hold on let me show the let me show that video with Bieber and then I'll let you finish your point that's.

“She's had me Bieber she's just down she doesn't have a gross as her.”

She's a lot older than he is poor Bieber he's been like poor boy I spent a lot keep going day well he did well for him stuff though. I know but he's like clearly so damaged now from obviously his time with usher and did he this is my own supposition I don't have proof but it seems pretty clear. I just like everybody abused Justin Bieber like on camera on late night shows and you can see he's like walking around laboring under this that's my belief for anyway keep going day well this all feasible narrative that Katy Perry just thinks that she has the privilege to grab people's butts and pull people's pants down and perhaps rat put her badge and someone's face at a party.

But I can't but I said that I want a loss boy with the seven years of school you come on and talk about that that's really unbelievable my parents we talked about crazy stuff on our show but this is. You can see it it was coming at you like a freight train Aaron Berg we can see it really what is he gonna do it is he gonna say it. So true when it was Justin Trudeau is thinking about all this right now but the thing is is that to prove a case. It's provoking the United States it would be a non-star I mean this is a heat she said she said and the witnesses are not fair before the plaintiff here for the accuser.

But you can maybe do some more in Australia which has no statute limitations and maybe they have looser rules of evidence and a lower burden than we have here but in this in this country this case would go nowhere. Well look at this one too here's Anna Kendrick in 2014 sitting down with Conan O'Brien with her own Katy Perry story watch.

This is a crazy night I've never been around so many Katy Perry finger bagged my cleavage it was a weird night.

She's very mature. She just does that she just does that I was kind of asking for it if nobody does that would have been a little bit. Because I hate this scene so you're standing still in Katy Perry walks by and I have met her before and yeah she's like a sister thing.

Okay so that is creepy I mean like so they don't know each other she's saying actually that she just walks by her and stuck her fingers down her dress.

“And then her boobs up we see her grabbing Justin Bieber's bottom and like lingering for a long time.”

She did right and become famous singing a song I kissed a girl and I liked it.

Oh yeah so there's it's obvious you know she's got some sort of a pension that way and now you got this gal coming forward saying.

“You know I didn't talk about it for a long time because I was young and I'm going to be honest she helped me out and needed a visa so I kept my mouth shut but F her I'm older now.”

Like I actually I'm not sure she is I'm not sure she is either but this is really going to be a credibility issue because even though we're not sure she's lying we're also not sure she's telling the truth. And you know I'm interested to see what this other evidence is maybe some pictures something like that but what we really have is we have or the friend what I mean the friend would be really key but why the friend keep quite all these years it's what doesn't make any sense and all these people.

“I mean if you're if you're not famous and your girlfriend is Ruby Rose and she's got this allegation against Katy Perry and Ruby Rose is like don't don't tell anyone she helped make it my visa.”

You would keep your mouth shut.

You can ask a question real quick if all the three of you who among us here can tell. You know the world sort of with any specificity who we might have been hanging out with at a bar or nightclub 20 years ago. We're trying to put a damn thing that happened.