David Sinclair (Harvard Professor) Reveals Age-Reversing Science to Look & Feel Younger

We can cure diseases and injuries that have never been cured before.

And so imagine in ten years you just take a pill for four weeks and you get younger. Why do we age? The epigenome is the issue because going through sperm and an egg and fertilization resets the epigenome. But the good news is we've figured out a way to safely reset that without having to clone yourself. We've gone from the idea that we just take a supplement or we do some excise to slow down aging.

Now we're talking about the ability to really reset the body reset. All of the cells in the body to be young again. Teenage of today will live into the twenty second century. Now that's the moon shot ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to moon shots everybody.

Today's episode is delivering on a state of the union on age reversal. Focusing on one of my favorite moon shots, longevity.

It will be discussing epigenic reprogramming when we might reach longevity escape velocity.

And the role of AI in our longevity quest. My guest here is a dear friend of brilliant scientist, Dr. Davidson Claire. Professor at Harvard Medical School author of Life's Fan, one of my favorite books. We'll talk about what comes next from David's authorship. And one of the leading thinkers in the realm of age reversal, epigenetics, and longevity science.

We'll discuss what's here on a near term. How you can support it, how you can be involved in it, how you can benefit from it. We'll also discuss why at age 55, David looks like he's 35. I believe we're living grown almost six extraordinary types in human history.

“And if you want to see more of this future, if you want additional decades in your life,”

this is the episode for you. Alright, let's jump in with Dr. Davidson Claire and a whole download on the state of age reversal, David. Welcome, buddy.

Hey, Peter, it's good to be back.

It's good to have you back. How are you doing? I'm doing well, you know, I'm having a blast. I am more focused on my health than I ever have been. You're looking really good.

I was commenting on your biceps. Yeah, wow. That's why I'm wearing a jacket here. I think we can talk about this, that, in fact, muscle mass and exercise still remains one of the primary pro longevity drugs out there.

Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, we'll get into the details of what the best day of the art is. And what's coming because, you know, eating right, sleep, diet, all of these things can only get you so far.

“And then the question is, can we turn back the clock up time?”

So here's my opener for you. It's 10 years from now. It's 2035. How we reached some, some state of age reversal technology that truly works. How well does it work?

How often are you taking this treatment? And what is it cost? Give me a vision of the future here. Right. Well, I'm not asking for promises.

I'm asking for your best guess. Yeah, sure. I'm not shy to talk about what I think is coming. And as I wrote in my book, lifespan, I predicted a future where we would have wearables and we would have video conferences with our doctors and you could order medicines online. And I thought that was going to take 15 years and it happened in three.

And so sometimes I'm actually, I underestimate what we're actually looking at. So here's what I see.

“So I'm, I sit on the front row of the future, right?”

For this long show. The bleeding edge I would say. Yeah. And so sure. I want to share my thoughts with the listeners.

What I'm seeing in my lab and labs that are competing with us or collaborating with us is something quite remarkable. And the pace of change is making my head spin off. And I'm an optimist, but I just can't comprehend right now how fast things are going. So let's just go back a few years and then we'll project into the future. So 2017, it was just a theory that we could reverse aging, even the word reverse and still to some extent is apparent to my colleagues.

But we've actually we proved that and publish in 2020 that you can reverse most aspects of aging by reprogramming cells, which we'll talk about. And that changes everything. If my information theory of aging is correct, which is, we'll talk about the idea that you don't just lose information as you get older like software corruption. And you can actually reset that. If that's true and it looks like it is, then it changes everything because we've gone from the idea that we just take a supplement or we do some excise to slow down aging.

That's basic. That should be on everyone's protocol. But now we're talking about the ability to truly reset the body reset all of the cells in the body to be young again.

It's we talk like this in my lab, whereas outside it's like, what are you talking about? How do you reverse aging? But what we do is we use a set of genes that are normally only on in embryos.

We turn them on in adult tissues, mice, and monkeys, and we can cure diseases and injuries that have never been cured before, even blindness.

“And so we published that in 2020. And since then, what are we now?”

We're at the middle of, yeah, 2025 currently. What I see is that with the advances of AI and we're doing a lot of AI in my lab, which I'm happy to share. Yeah. Things are going so fast. Now we're doing experiments in a matter of a month that would take hundreds of thousands of years to do. And as you can probably imagine, millions of molecules coming through screening virtually. And so we're coming up with alternatives to this gene therapy that we polish in 2020.

To ask me, because of all how much might it cost? Well, right now, the technology which is going into humans next year in January, hopefully. This is with life by our sciences.

“So life by sciences has proven that it works this reversal of aging in the optic nerve to cure a variety of elements in the eye.”

And we chose the eye because for business reasons, mainly. So we're going to treat glaucoma and stroke in the eye called Nion. And this is a gene therapy. So gene therapy is typically cost $300,000 per hour. Or it could be as much as $2 million for a gene therapy for a rare disease. It's a lot. And the reason is there's a lot of hurdles to get through to get to the market.

And just producing this stuff is expensive, costing us more than $10 million just to make the first batch to go into humans.

But my lab is in existence to make this for everybody. We're not here to charge as much as we can. We're here to make it hopefully eventually pennies on the dollar every time someone takes pill. So what we've been doing since the last, well, five years is to try to bring that cost down. And using AI, we're now at a point where we've got molecules that really were only cost $100 to make or less for a month's course. Like three bucks a day. Yeah. Yeah. And we're seeing that those work really well in mouse studies to reset and old animals physiology within just a matter of four weeks. So this holiday season.

We did a Hailmere experiment. We gave them just early this cocktail. And we weren't expecting anything, but we thought why don't we just measure how fit and healthy they are. And all the mice that were on the treatment and not the controls ended up behaving and being physiologically younger. And then when we tested their biological age, which you can do with real quantitative tests, they were younger as well. And that's just giving them this stuff Monday, Wednesday, Friday, before weeks. So now we want to do a lifespan study. If we can raise the funds to do that and see if we can blow away the lifespan record for mice.

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Intitial, safely. So, curing blindness. You've done this in primates already. Yeah, it works in green monkeys. Really amazingly well. And some of the data is just stunning. You know, you can map whether you reverse the age of the optic nerve in these animals. And it's looking like 95% of the age goes backwards. Wow. I mean, this is due a youthful state of the optic nerve.

And, and semi-permanently, this isn't that you have to keep the genes on. You can switch them off again in which we do. We have an on-off system that we've patented and works really well.

I'm digging an age out again, but then you just turn it back on for a few weeks. That's the plan. That's the plan. I like that plan. And what type of age reversal do you see? I mean, you know, putting this into human terms. Someone's 50 years old, they turn this on.

“Is it taking them back to, you know, teenage years, you can you control how far back they would get?”

Yeah, we can control it. The longer you leave it on the younger, the tissue gets beautiful.

And it seems very safe. There's no no untold effects of this treatment so far and in the monkeys either. But here's what I see. I see that within the next 10 years we'll have the ability to

Not only use gene therapy throughout the body, and we're already working at life by sciences on getting away from viral delivery, which is the current one. And just for folks to know, you know, gene therapies, been something developed since the 80s. It ran into some troubles early on, but it's where you basically are using a virus to deliver, typically what's called an AV, I don't associate virus to deliver a set of genes into targeted cells. But that's expensive. And sometimes maybe goes off target, you don't get all the cells you want.

Well, that's the big problem with AV is that tissue distribution is tough. And so we need better ways to either get those viruses evenly throughout the body.

Or use other things like what are called lipid nanoparticles. Those are also like in the reaction exactly.

Yeah. So, you know, for those that questioning what about the vaccines, maybe we won't get into that. That's got a bad name in the last course. This is obviously not a vaccine. This is you deliver genetic material inside these little particles. And those, there's really good technologies actually. There's a company that I'm advising called legandal and they use AI to find proteins that you could put on the outside of these little particles and direct them to anywhere you want them to go. Getting back to what you asked me about what is the future look like.

I think we can either go into the doctor and have an injection of that genetic material. And we become transgenic humans that we can turn on these three youthful Yemenarca genes they're called. And every time we want to get rejuvenated or we have an injury, we need to heal quickly. We turn them on. How do you do that? Well, we've engineered it. So you can just take an antibiotic for a few weeks. It's toxic cyclone.

“Of course, it's pretty safe. Actually, very, very safe. And you turn it on. Now, that's that's what I can see happening with already technology that's going into humans.”

But if we're, if we were successful in what we're doing in my lab, this, these AI generated molecules are mimicking that. So the reason for having a molecule rather than a gene therapy is not only other cheap, you can just swallow it and they evenly go throughout the body typically. And so imagine in ten years, you just take a pill for four weeks and you get younger. That's what we're headed towards. And I can see that being realistically possible in the next ten years. In fact, I can see how this is going to happen. That's what we're working towards in my lab.

I love it. I love it. I can't wait. And I volunteered to come first.

But the concept of longevity escapacity. So Rick Kurzweil, who's been a dear friend and mentor. His prediction is that we'll reach longevity escapacity by the end of the year 2030. And longevity escapacity for those who haven't heard the term, hopefully if they're listening to his podcast, they've heard it. It's the idea that at some point in the future, for every year that your life signs its extending your life for more than a year. And at that point, you know, it basically departs and you're going as long as you want.

I've had the conversation with multitude of different people and everybody's got a different guess. I just had a conversation with Demiscus Abyss not long ago and when he was on 60 minutes, he said he foresaw the end of all disease by the end of the decade. So all disease by 2035, and then Dario Amadeh, the CEO of Anthropic, at Davos, said he expects that we could see a doubling of the human lifespan in 10 years time. Those are good people to have in the same camp you are.

“So what do you think about longevity escapacity is a concept worth thinking about when do you think we might hit that?”

I don't have a number. I'm actually just on the ground working as hard and fast as I can with my team. But I do think now it's feasible. There was a time in my career five years ago, maybe ten. I thought this was so far into the future, it wasn't worth talking about. It's all speculation, but now that we, the information theory of aging and the reset seems true and that we're entering the clinic with these age reversal technologies that can be used multiple times.

I think it's possible that within our lifetime we'll see such the ability to reset yourself.

Now, I don't think we're going to live forever because there's always noise and information as hard to preserve indefinitely.

But I do believe that we could double the human lifespan now. I'm on record and I've taken some flack over the years from colleagues who didn't like me saying that the first person to live 250 years already been born. But I still stand by that because, you know, teenage of today will live into the 22nd century. We have to remember that. It's not about today's two or two 14 year old boys that I keep on telling about. Yeah, and just think about what's happened in the last 10 years.

“We just can't imagine what's going to be in their lifespan. And so that's why I think that it's quite possible that they will be able to live 150 or more.”

But for us, the question is, will we born one generation too early? Sure. Us in our 50s. That's just in our '56. Actually, since I was 18, I decided, damn it, I don't want to be part of the last generation to live in a more human lifespan.

And I know it's coming just a question of, and we do it in time for all of us. And I think the best way to ensure that we reach that point, if there isn't escape velocity, is to stay healthy. And that's why we should talk today about what we can do in our lives to stay healthy into our 90s and 100. Because certainly by the time you and I and 90 are 100, the technology is going to be there to reset our image. I mean, at this exponential age and what's going on with AI and I was with Eric Schmidt just recently in their last podcast.

And he's like, we will reach digital super intelligence within the decade, right? And this is not just AI, whatever it age, I mean, this is, you know, billions of old more intelligent than human. And of course, the work going on right now of being able to model a cell in silico will get there. And then we'll have a cell with Davidson Claire's genome or my genome, and you know exactly which molecules activate that or don't.

“Yeah, I want to go to a basic question, which I think is important for everybody to understand the answer to and I'd like to understand how you express it.”

Why do we age in the first place, right? So we have, we have the Greenland, we have the, you know, Bohead Whale lives to 200 years old, we live in the Greenland shark lives to 500 years old has pubs at 200 years old. And we make it to 100 on a routinely regular basis, but why do we age? And why are there no factors selecting for us to live longer than that? Yeah, well, the first answer to the second question is, there was no need.

And evolution doesn't build things that there's no need for. And we're likely to die from war or infection or salvation within 50 years. So living to 100 was really not helpful. The reason why we age is debated among academics, what I strongly believe based on the evidence that my labs in garnering G's 25 years now is that it's not just wear and tear. We're not just breaking down. They're not just things going wrong, but it's all about information and entropy.

And that what keeps us young is that we have great information. We've got our pristine genome and our pristine epigenome, which are the structures that read the genome. And those two elements of information, they get lost over time due to noise. And we've identified some of the causes of that noise, DNA breaks of chromosomes as part of that noise stress on a cell. If you crush a nerve cell, it will accelerate its aging.

“We showed in the 2020 nature paper. And so I think of the body, not like a lump of meat now, I think of it like a computer.”

And the software gets corrupted over time. And then the great news is we found that there's a backup copy of that software that can be reset.

Amazing. You've not done any really any podcasts the last few years. So I'm super happy to have you here.

So I really want to go into what you've learned. So the information theory of aging, you published that as part of your book life span. Time did an amazing piece on you and the information theory of aging. So it's so happy that Mark Benioff and Owen's time did that. It's like, yes, it's good to get the exposure for this.

So let's take it a step further and explaining what that information of, what that aging theory means. And have you had any new proof point supporting that in the lab? Yeah, it would come a long way since 2020.

So just to settle things, you know, you get 3.2 billion letters from your mom, 3.2 billion letters from your dad.

That's your genome. It doesn't change over the course of your life. I like to ask people like, why do you look different at 20 and 100? Why don't you look the same?

20,000 genes? Yeah. They're abouts.

“So epigenetics is effectively which genes are on and which genes are off, right?”

As you age, if I just have this right, as you're aging, the wrong genes turn on. And the wrong genes might turn off. And that's causing some of this effect. I can't add a lot to that. You summed up the theory well. And I did put it in lifespan the book. So if anyone hasn't read lifespan, it's all in there. And book to hopefully next year will come out.

But it was a risk putting it in that theory and all of our results into the book because we haven't published it yet.

But since then, since 2020, when the book came out, we have published a couple of big papers, one in nature and one in cell.

And it's really strong evidence now that the theory is real. It stands up, yeah. What have we learned since? Well, we're trying to figure out how is it possible to reset a cell and get back the original structures of the epigenome. And if we were to dive into the cell, okay, let's say we're going to pierce the membrane, go inside a cell then you swim down and then you see the nucleus. There's another membrane. There are little paws in the membrane, can swim through those. Now we can see the chromosomes.

And that's really the epigenome. And what if we unwrap those chromosomes, what we would see is the six feet of DNA that's in the cell of every cell.

“And then, but the DNA is wrapped up in proteins. And that wrapping is important for two reasons. One is that's how you fit six feet into a microscopic cell.”

But also whether it's wrapped tightly or not determines whether a gene is on or off.

And if it's tightly bundled, we call that silent chromatin or heterocromatin.

And a lot of the genes you want to be switched off because you don't want to live a specific gene on in the brain and vice versa. So there are these bundles of DNA and loops of DNA. And when it's bundled tightly, it can't be read, it can't be transcribed. Because it's hidden. Exactly. It's tightly bundled. And actually one of the big clues that this was relevant to aging was when I was in the Lab of Lendigorentia as a 25 year old postdoc.

And as a team, we uncovered that there were these silent information regulator genes called the Sertuans. And their job is to bundle up DNA. And at the time we're thinking, what the heck is bundling DNA got to do with aging? We're expecting to see antioxidant genes and telomere extending genes.

“But we found these silent information regulators. And that's why information has been key to my research ever since.”

Getting back to what happens during aging is that these bundles and these loops, they change over time. And apart because the cell loses the ability to bundle them and you get, oh, these loops open up. But also because the epigenomes changing all the time, our genome is stable. We don't change our genome much. In fact, mutations are not as abundant as we thought. And you can actually, I could take one of your cells and clone you.

And even though your cells are old, we can start in your life with those cells. I love that, right? And so I know one experiment set of terms were done actually. But took cells from 23 sequential mice clones that showed, you know, you could, you could take a cell, clone the mouse, grow it out, take a cell, clone the mouse, grow it out. And they just, I think they got bored and stopped at the brain. And they're still healthy, right? These mice are getting old.

But if the old theory is correct, the mutations cause aging, then you just end up getting older and older babies. That doesn't happen. So therefore, I'm very convinced so far that the epigenome is the issue. Because going through sperm and an egg and fertilization resets the epigenome, you can start life again. But the good news is we figured out a way to safely reset that without having to clone yourself. But think of it like that as resetting the system, like going through conception without having to be reborn.

Amazing. So the control of the epigenome, I know for example, you know, skin has a multitude of different proteins, collagen molecules. And as you grow older, one of the reasons your skin ages is those collagen molecules, the genes with collagen molecules get silenced. And so one could imagine un-solencing them. We do that in the lab all the time. We have a skin project. So yeah, you'll have to imagine it.

Okay, I'll show you. So they can't wait for the project to come out. Yeah, we think skin is a good model. It also may help some people with wound healing and how they look. But we actually grow bundles of human skin and hair in the lab. And for those of your queasy, you may not want to hear this, but we open up that organoid of human tissue that we grow.

But we put them in the backs of mice. And now it's pretty funny. You can see them in the minds of blood supply.

Yeah, yeah, but you get human black hair growing out of the back of a mouse. Now we can age that hair, make it gray, make it old. And now we test if we can reverse it and so far it looks good. Well, if you can do that, I think you get another huge winner on there. If you get the abundant summit, which I've had you speak at a couple of times and you're going to be back in 26. Thank you for that.

Eric Schmidt will be our opener. You'll be our closer to that year. It's healthy fun. I remember I had a biotech longevity scientist on stage. And he was talking about his technology, how he could cure cancer, he could, you know, increase the health of particular organs. And he's giving all this entire list of what he could do. And then he says anything grow here. And the crowd erupts in applause.

“It's like, yeah, I remember that. Yeah, so people do care about skin and hair.”

But we're also with learning fundamentals about what makes cells old and how do we reverse that and skin is just one. So the original data set that, you know, that is there that that helps the cell remember it's original state. Have you found out where that lives?

Oh, well, the answer is probably, though I'm, I'm going to wait to reveal that in detail.

I have some very good students working on that right now. And we've, I wrote a review in, in one of the nature journals about this. The funny ones interested. You can go see my ideas. But basically what what we need for this to be real is there are, there's a memory of youth in every old cell. So what is that memory?

It's got to be, probably something physical. Could be a chemical modification of the DNA. Okay. Chemical modifications of the protein. Like a manipulation, or an investigation.

Could be methylation. Could be something else. Could be some other type of novel genetic material. Or it could just be proteins that permanently stick to the chromosome and stay there until we need them to reset. I figure you would have, people would have seen this by now. Well, what I can say is people have bumped into this and ignored it because they didn't think it was important.

I, I read through all of your tweets as we got ready for this and I love one of these says, "Your cells remember how to be young. We just need to remind them." Exactly. And my students are great and that they are, And I met, I came to your lab a month ago and I met many of them and they're brilliant.

Yeah, they're like my children actually, and on some days that I love them more than my own children. But yeah, they're a very special group and they are working so hard to change the world and make these medicines a reality. Yeah, and we'll talk about, you know, the insanity of funding cuts in a little bit, and the importance of the work that you're doing. So anything else you want to add on the information theory?

Do you have experiments planned that we'll just nail this down? How does a theory become like just, you know, accepted gospel, in fact? I think it happens at one funeral at a time. But I mean, I've been very pleasantly surprised that the theory, which is called,

“that's how a foreshort, ITOA, is being well accepted by the community.”

And there's more and more evidence every few weeks about this. I think what will really convince people is when we disrupt the observer we call it. So this backup copy based on Claude Shannon, I'm a big fan of his and you know that. And so for those of you who don't know about Claude Shannon, just briefly Claude was a scientist at MIT and Bell Labs who figured out the information theory of communication.

So the reason we have an internet is because of him. And the same mathematics and concepts I poached and used them for aging. And so the information theory of aging is all about the preservation of information, and having a backup copy, which at the time he called it the observer. So we still talk in my lab about finding the observer and the observer keeps a backup copy of the original signal.

And if you lose it by the time it gets to the center, you can go back and retrieve what's missing from the observer. And so what we think is that the observer has a physical, as I mentioned at a state, it's got information there. We think we've found that information, it's novel biology.

And when we show, if we show that breaking that system prevents age reversal from happening,

“then I think that the community will believe us.”

Love it, love it.

So we just launched about 18 months ago something called the 101 million dollar health span express.

Yeah, absolutely.

“I think you're in the process of registering for that copy.”

Did you all register fantastic? Oh, you registered fantastic. So we've had like 625 teams from around the world. And for those who haven't heard me speak about it before,

this is an express one of our largest, we raised $157 million.

GSK is a big sponsor of it as well. But our primary sponsors are gentlemen, Chip Wilson, the founder, Lemon, who has a muscular dystrophy called FSHD. And he put in 36 million. And then a group out of Saudi Arabia called Evolution,

think health and evolution, they put in 40 million. I'm a multimillion dollar donor. We have a lot of incredible people who are supporting this. And the goal is can we get this smartest people in the world, including you, working on reversing the loss of cognition,

immune, and muscle.

And I'm amazed the variety of different approaches.

And I'm excited that your lab will be participating. But we're seeing like a huge range. I mean from cellular medicines to gene therapies too. So I want to ask you, beyond your own work, the state of the union for age reversal for longevity

“is it still an uphill battle in the scientific world in the funding world?”

Because it used to be a stigma if you said you're doing age reversal work. It was like all this person's insane. Yes. Is that gotten better? Not much. Especially age reversal. There's still the old school in my field

that doesn't like the word reversal. But it's somewhat better that at least saying that you work on longevity isn't a stigma. And there's a lot more funding outside of academia for this, of course. But in academia, there's less money than ever to study this topic, which is surprising given how much potential it has to change medic.

Yeah. The interesting thing is it's coming a lot of the funding from this is coming from the crypto community. There's a great alignment between people who believe in crypto is a long term vision for capital as well and longevity. We've seen Jeff Bezos and you're a millionaire back altoes. We've seen Brian Armstrong back in New Limit.

We've seen Sam Altman back retro. So it's good to see some of these multi-billionaires backing these things. I mean, I for one, if I had that level of capital, I'd be backing it like all of them. Yeah, well, one or more of these companies could dominate pharmaceuticals in the 25th century. I mean, it is a truly multi-trillion dollar marketplace.

Yeah. I mean, I'm on stages and perhaps you are two and I ask, okay, you're seven year 80 years old. You know, this is a room of family offices, wealthy individuals. And, you know, you're slowly degrading as people do in that in the last decades. And someone comes up to you and says, listen, here is a therapeutic.

It will give you an extra 20 healthy years, not 20 health years right now, like where you were, you know, in your 50s. How much of your wealth would you give for that? And if they're honest, it would be the vast majority, you know, 80 plus percent.

“And when I think about that, that is, you know, tens of trillions of dollars.”

So I think it's a giant market. I'm hopeful that we'll see a lot more funding coming in from people, both philanthropically and investment ones. Me too, actually, that the story I like is, if you ask someone in their 30s, what would you do to trade with Warren Buffett? Yeah. No one says they'd trade with him, no matter how much money he has because he's older.

Yeah. So the years you have are worth everything to you, more than money. Agreed. Agreed. And as you know, earlier this year, I was on stage at the Abundant Summit with some incredible individuals.

Kathy Wood, Mogadot, Vinod Kosla, Brett Adcock, and many other amazing tech CEOs.

I'm always asked, hey, Peter, where can I see the summit?

Well, I'm finally releasing all the talks. You can access my conversation with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandest.com/summit. That's the talk with Kathy Wood and Mogadot for free at dmandest.com/summit. Enjoy. I'll ask my team to put the links in the show notes below.

What else are you seeing out there that could be a viable age reversal therapeutic? Are you seeing any particular, without naming this very labs or anything but approaches? Well, there's a few. I work on epigenetic reprogramming at life biosciences. And these companies, you just mentioned, they're also chasing us, so we started a little earlier than they did, but they're trying to catch up.

So that's a whole, I think that's for me the most promising.

“That's why I'm putting my own money into it as well.”

What else is important? Well, I think that there's factors from the blood. We know that plasma freezes, exchanging your plasma has some benefits and it looks looking better all the time. It's therapeutic plasma exchange. That's right.

Yeah, I've done that five times now, right? Yeah, I've, I think I've done it maybe a few times, but I really believe in it because there's a lot of animal data and some human data coming that looks good. But what is it about that that's beneficial?

We're actually trying to turn that into a pill, but stay tuned for that because it'll be easier than my last year for an hour.

But that sounds promising, right, that there's something in our blood that's keeping us old or fresh that comes in that makes us young. There's some factors already companies are working on.

“I think there might be a few really good ones that you could take as a drip and rejuvenate.”

There was a promise of GDF 11 years ago. I mean, the promise a lot of these companies, you know, get funded with seed capital, but you know, being a biology medical company is expensive. And they run out of capital. Yeah, it is. And I think there's something that we haven't found yet that's going to be more rejuvenative. So we're screening these proteins in the blood and genes that do epigenetic reprogramming. And so you could imagine that there's a peptide perhaps or a protein that is circulating in the blood.

And when it circulates, it triggers these genes that give rejuvenation. So we're looking for that. Stem cells, but it's been a bit slow, but we're starting to see a resurgence of stem cell. Interesting approval. So the FDA now approves certain type of stem cell therapy. Yeah, and we've just seen states begin to become much more lenient. So Florida is in the process of passing regulation to allow you to do stem cell treatments in state.

I think what's Utah is there already other places, which is great because, you know, before this, you'd go to Panama or Costa Rica or Antigua to do it, which is fine, except you don't have your medical team around you, and you're operating XUS.

“Right. So presumably, fountain life is going to get into that.”

Yeah, fountain life. We have two centers right now in Naples and Orlando, and we're opening up Miami, and those will all have. Hopefully the most advanced stem cell therapeutics available as well as other statements, like NK cell supplementation. Yeah, which kill cancer cells.

Yeah, and natural killer cells are innate immune system, you know, kill cancers. We're always developing cancers.

And we depend on our immune system to find them and kill them. And the same NK cells also hunt down, you know, infected virally infected cells. Yeah, well, we're working on a new type of stem cell, a very rare type. We should we should talk because there's something that there's a stem cell that actually turns into the tissue that it lands in. And that that's different than current stem cells.

Yeah, interesting. Okay. I think that area has promised to. Sunnescent cell killing chemicals, somewhat promising. I saw elders bought a company or is merging with a company that works on that. It's been a little slower, a little bit disappointing to with unity. Yeah, it's so surprised. So unity biosciences goes public, and then their data comes back and they crash.

And they're slowly slowly, you can the way back. It wasn't a complete failure. Just they didn't reach the end point. So it's there's a lot of variability. So that's part of the issue, but I think they'll keep pushing on and they'll find something. These Sunnescent cells are important. We know from a lot of studies that if you delete these cells, you can improve metabolism and a bunch of people. Can you can you use a project we programming to move Sunnescent cells back to normal healthy cells?

We have a project in my lab on that. And so far, it looks like yes, we can do both the rejuvenation of stem cells. Sunnescent cells so that they don't cause havoc. But they normally cause a lot of inflammation and even cancer. So we can stop that with reprogramming. But in some cases, we can even rejuvenate them so they grow again, normally they're sitting.

And then we grow. Just for folks, there's something called the hapholic limit, which is, was it 50 cell replications thereabouts that a cell should replicate 50 times and then have the decency to die. And if it doesn't, it can become a cancer cell or a Sunnescent cell, which is pumping out these inflammatory factors. Yeah. And so you can either kill them or you can cure them. And so it looks like we can cure them, but we're not sure if that's a good thing. We have to figure out if curing a Sunnescent cell will just give us more problems.

But at least in tissue culture, it looks like reprogramming does work in that regard. And also you might, somebody might be asking, you might be asking, if you reprogram a cancer cell, what happens? Oh, yeah, fascinating. I've good news on that front. Okay.

Oh, so you have a cancer cell. It's growing. You've discovered at stage three or stage four.

“And it's through different parts of the body. You hit it with an epigenic reprogramming cocktail, right?”

And it has a decency to die. Well, I think it freaks out and realizes it wakes up from its zombie-like state and says, oh, my goodness. My chromosomes are messed up. I bet it killed myself because one of the ways to become a cancer. A cancer son or a bull of it is to ignore it's DNA damage. They filled with DNA damage. And when we wake them up, they can, so if you wake up a normal cell, it goes back and it gets younger.

But if you wake up a cancer cell, it looks like it realizes it should kill itself when it does.

Amazing. That's crazy. Amazing.

All right. So I wanted to dive into a couple of your companies that I'm tracking. I've had them on my stages at the abundance platinum event, which I do every fall. For those of you interested, David and I will be together in Boston or abundance platinum trip this year is the last five days of September. If you want more information, you can go to abundance360.com/longevity. Life by Osscience is in Metro Biotech. Two very cool companies. Let's talk about each of those.

So we start with live biosciences. This is the more recent one. This was founded in 2017-18. And they're the ones that have shown in monkeys that you can basically cure blindness and get vision back. And so the first studies will be in January if I'll go as well. So you've gone originally from mice to monkeys, so nonhuman primates.

And it worked as expected in both cases.

It was better than expected actually. And so far, there's no signs of any reason why we shouldn't go into humans next year. It's going to depend on the FDA, but we're planning to submit what's called an IND shortly. And how big will we do this time next year? We know if it's working because the studies are straight into patients. And so is it a single injection? What is it?

Good question. It's a single injection. So with macular generations, it's very common to get one injection or more. You don't feel it's nothing bad. And what this virus does, so the AV mentioned goes into the nerves at the back of the eye. And we just turn it on by giving the patient some antibiotic. That's exactly right. Which is by the way is just the trigger that turns on that segment of DNA.

Yeah, so we put in those three genes as on inside the virus. So we normally have these genes. We're not changing the genome. But by putting these three genes in the virus, we can control them better. And now that what's called dox inducible. And we could have used any chemical, it doesn't have to be dox, but dox is such a safe and rosy way.

And it's been in research for decades. So we chose that. But yeah, so by this time next year, we should know if it can improve vision in people that have gone blind either from a stroke in their eye. Or from glaucoma.

Amazing. How big will your face want to be?

You think it's a small study, right? You start with one and then two then ten. Yeah. And we're just raising money to go into our phase two study already. Awesome.

“Any other, any other elements of life biosciences besides that specifically?”

Well, some of it's, you know, I'm bound by confidentiality. But I can say in general that the company has, that's phase one for the company. Stayed, let's call it stage one, not to confuse it with clinical trials. Stage one is proof of concept in the eye. Does it work? Two shots on goal, two diseases.

Stage two for the company, which is already underway is using AI to convert to chemicals. So you have a pill instead or an LNP, which is the lipid nanoparticles. You don't use viruses, whole body, rejuvenation. Well, already doing that and then, so stage three would be going into multiple diseases and eventually whole body rejuvenation. All right. So let's, let's pause right there and focus in on this.

So I think one of the realizations is for those who develop a disease, when you are younger, you didn't have the disease.

“And so if you're able to actually induce some type of age reversal, you know, does that cure the disease?”

In mice, it's working great. So for instance, glaucoma is an age-related disease. You make the eye young again in the animal. The disease goes away. The body can heal itself, and that's been really not the approach of medicine, as we know it. Medicine, as you know, you're a trained doctor, is, oh, we treat the symptoms of this disease and slow it or cure it. But we don't use the bodies on healing properties. Now we've uncovered the ultimate healing property.

And we just turn on these embryonic genes and now we get youth and now the body can heal itself. So besides vision, what else have we tried? Well, in my lab, we've done Alzheimer's disease cured. Wow. It's a muscle diseases cured, ALS, pretty cured.

“And that's important because in my partners, family, we are valus. So that's where rushing to fix that one.”

We published it with a collaborator that we could alleviate multiple sclerosis with this as well. So so far, we have not seen a disease or an injury that could not be effectively treated with this therapy now. It doesn't mean everything can be cured. But what it's telling me is that diseases that we've been treating really were just been addressing the symptoms, not the underlying cause.

And finally now, we're treating what's really underlying most diseases, which is the aging universal aging process itself.

And the challenges today's medical system is built all around, you know, just treating the symptoms. It's built around keeping you alive and treating what's possible, but not curing you. I mean, it's, it's really quite insane. The whole body would juvenile again by taking a set of pills. So we don't see, like, when arm get younger than the other arm, we don't see any of that going on. So the notion is that if you're going to be able to reverse the aging of a particular system, skin or muscle or, or, you know,

that it, that it's going to hit all tissues, all organs. Well, that's the ultimate goal and we're already testing in my, how that works. There was another lab, our collaborators out of George Church's lab, where we, we're covering with George, you know, George George is in my department at Harvard. We collaborated initially on building these viruses, and they did the experiment that I thought was really interesting, which was just to inject the virus, not just into the eye, but injected into the vein of the mouse.

And if we're right, the mice should be should live longer. And even though this was a Hail Mary experiment not optimized, those old mice that they treated lived another hundred and nine percent longer. Okay, so I have to ask you this question at this point. Yeah, we talked about mice, mice are the lab, lab mice are experimented on everything. And a typical lab mouse lives how long 24 months, 36 months. Yeah, yeah, 28 months. 28 months, okay. Why aren't we seeing mice that are living not two years, but 10 years at this point? Well, what's going on there?

“Because I think we were taking the wrong approach. What happened to the field, unfortunately in the 20th century?”

By the way, I just noted, noted this real quick for reference. In June of 1982, Richard Windrad and Roy Walford at UCLA showed that life extension of 30 to 40 percent was possible through calorie restriction to get a mouse to what is currently the record of 53 months. So, you just have to starve the mouse and you can almost double its life span, which I don't think it'll be here once to do. No, it'll certainly make life feel longer. But yeah, those guys showed early on that you can extend life span through diet, but it's not pleasant.

But now we're seeing combination drugs. There was one published last week that combination of two anti cancer drugs could extend life span of my 30 percent.

So we're approaching the same levels of extension as we saw with those early studies. But ultimately we want to make mice live five times longer, 10 times longer. You think we'll get there? Well, I mean, I don't care about the mouse living longer. I just want some additional evidence that we moved the needle.

“Yeah. Well, our field has made lower organisms live 10 times longer. So what is it about mammals that's harder?”

I think we were just taking the wrong approach. We were saying, oh, let's fry this molecule that turns on this longevity pathway or that longevity pathway. Most of these longevity pathways that we worked on starting in the 2000s with molecules to tweak them, we were just slowing aging. We weren't reversing aging. I think with this new age reversal approach and these technologies that gene therapy and these new cocktails that we have in my lab, we have a much better chance of being able to repeatedly reverse aging and get them out to

a lot of maybe five years. And this is, I'm excited about this because remember, I said, over the holiday break.

Yes. We're in four weeks. We made them basically young mice again.

Yes. We want to try this over the lifespan and we've got a good chance, I think.

Well, as soon as we have the money to do that, right? So let's. All right. So we're going to talk about money in just a little bit. But I do want to hit on a basic idea that one people understand, which is the idea of these seven certain two and genes or these proteins. And the battle between between DNA repair and epigenetic drift, right? So the finder stand from reading your book and speaking to you. And what we have are these seven sort of two ends that are conserved across almost all life.

“Yeah, even bacteria, yeah, even bacteria. And as they have two functions in the cell, right?”

One is to repair DNA damage and one is to make sure that the right genes are on and the right genes are off. Is that basically? And as we get older, and I'm pitching this back to you, because this is how I explain on stage, we're accumulating some DNA damage. And of course, the, you know, the two ends are going back and forth between these two functions.

And as we get older, our internal NAD levels drop by as much as 50 percent, right?

And NAD is sort of the energy currency in the cell that powers these two ends. And so if they're having less energy and having to go back and forth between DNA repair and epigenetic drift, our epigenomenal loses and we get aging. Is that correct? Mostly. Okay, correct me when I'm off.

And then without the decline in NAD, we have problems. And we showed this in a mouse that we published in 2023 and the journal cell was that even if we distracted the sort of twins from the main role of silencing genes, when a mouse was young, that was enough to make them age 50 percent faster. And these were called the ice mice. So we created non-murigenic cuts and that distracted the sort of twins from where they were on the chromosomes and they went elsewhere and often didn't come back to where they belonged.

And that just for three weeks was enough to trigger the domino effect of aging in those animals and they didn't just look old, they were old by every measure. Or old, the physiology was old, the DNA methylation clocks were older. And then we also did a little experiment to reverse the tissues at the end just for some fun. Just for some fun. Your lab must be a blast to work in. I wish I'd go back to my medical school days and come and knock on your door and volunteer.

Let's talk about AI in your research because that's new since we last really went deep. I mean the entire the explosion of the AI field and understanding especially is applied to basic sciences. So tell me, how are you using it? What's it doing for you? Well, it's central to everything now. We barely run an experiment without consulting our AI agents.

We want to let me talk about two areas. I think it's interesting. The first is in visualization. We've developed algorithms called dash AI.

I forget what it stands for. But basically the idea is that we can visualize old and young cells using a microscope and tell very quickly within nanoseconds with what age those cells are just by looking at them.

“That's fascinating. And that's important if we're sure. And as we are screening for genes and molecules that control and reverse aging, measuring what matters.”

Yeah, yeah. And so we have a curve that stretches from 20 year old cells or cells from 20 year old skin cells for 93 year olds. And within nanoseconds, you can not you, but the computer looks at the image and can say, all right, those cells were 93 last week and now they're 20. And so we have chemicals that do that. So that just gives you super rapid screening of all kinds of chemicals.

Yeah. So that's using robotics and AI visualization. That's one aspect. Yeah. But really what blows me away is the other part, which is we believe we found the four main levers to reverse aging. What I mean by that is that there are enzymes that control the epigenome. There are four main pathways and you want to pull back the lever. So inhibit three of those and push one.

And that combination is the winning one. And so we have chemicals that do that, but they're cocktails. And we've published some of these. These cocktails work on these four levers. But what we really want is just one simple, safe molecule because it's easier to develop as a medicine that does those four things.

Now if you'd said to even a pharmaceutical company with a billion dollars,

“did you do that? They would have said probably five years ago, no way, right?”

Doing one of those lever pulls is hard enough.

Yeah, optimizing and physical screening and making the molecules by hand as chemists.

But now we can just take all known molecules and virtually screen them in a couple of months against all those four targets. And so when you say take all known molecules, we're talking about actually physically doing this in a petri dish. Oh, no goodness. We're talking. So what are you actually doing?

Yeah. Well, we virtually docked them into the enzymes. And the AI is precise enough to create an actual physical model. Oh, for sure. Our chemist and his team solve all of the structures as you know. And so that made this all possible. Now we can just do the crunch number crunching.

And so yeah, so normally this docking would be done by hand by a person would take days to do. And now it's just done like this, this and you can do billions actually trillions. And there are libraries of virtual molecules, but also there are actually physical libraries. So what's happened is we've now got a set of 100 top candidates. Some synthetic, some natural.

And we can just order them like put on Amazon, bring in your chemicals and put them through our AI assisted screening crazy. So earlier you said it was going to be a cocktail of four molecules that you're trying now. Yeah, we publish six and we're now down to three and if we're. And you believe you get down to one.

Well, we're testing them now and they look good so far amazing amazing.

I want to turn to a to a subject that is that's a bit painful. And recent and very impactful about this longevity future, which is funding. It's been a travesty of the massive cuts and science.

“And I know you've been hit hard by it. How hard have you been hit?”

Well, I spent more time as a psychiatrist now and a doctor than a scientist. It's tough, you know, that the poor kids in my lab who are innocent and this are really suffering. What percentage of your lab is funded through that government grants? The majority is government funded and all of those grants were terminated. 100% of those grants were terminated.

Yeah, they're all gone. Any explanation as to why? The Harvard's in the target of. It's not just the doge activities. It's Harvard's being specifically.

This single doubt for what unquote anti-Semitism. But taking it out on my poor students, like my own kids, it's rough. Well, they're taking it out on the rest of us, too. If the science gets delayed by your that just puts, you know, another, another percentage of the population at risk of dying.

Well, we may never know what medicines will never exist in our lifetime because of this unfortunately.

Because Harvard Medical School is a crown jewel of research in the world and to stop all that research. I met one of my colleagues in the cafeteria last week and he's a leading guy in his field.

“And I said, what are you going to do now that you've got to know money?”

You guys, I had a good run. I'll go home. I might write a book. Wow. It's done.

He's over. Wow. He's done. But I'm not giving up. I'm going to fight.

Yeah. It's still important to get you. As you should. And I want to help you. You know, one of the things I realized is probably the single thing that the US could do to solve the US debt

is give people an extra 20 years of health. Yeah. Absolutely. We've crossed the numbers. I know.

So talk about that. You did there was a study at Harvard, London School of Business and Oxford on that.

“What was, what was the study say, what was the financial application here?”

Yeah. So I teamed up with a couple of great economists. And they calculated that in the US extending healthy lifespan just by one year by keeping people out of nursing homes and giving them back to the community and making them productive was a value to the US economy of 86 trillion dollars. That's just one year.

That's doable. 36 or 86. Did I say 36? No. No, you said 86.

I think it's 36. It's 86 million. 86 billion. No. 86 trillion.

Well, we don't fact check that. Okay. But and then it was 366 or seven trillion for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a lot. These numbers are staggering. This is like the fence budget. I mean, this is people staying active and generating in the economy and not having to pay out on health care costs. That's what it is.

And then people spend money, right? They're traveling and they're buying things. You know, I use my father as a role model and, you know, he's on, he's on our program or whatever he's doing well.

he is as young as he was when he was in his 40s.

“He acts moves, travels, thinks, enjoys his life like we do.”

And he's not slowing down at all. He still drives it night without glasses. You know, he has to take a test because he's old. But you know, he passes with flying colors. So think about if the population on average was like him.

Yeah. What kind of a world would it be? These people are valuable. There's every life is valuable. You can even put dollars on every life's value.

Yeah. It tells people, you know, if you're, if you're 80, but you feel like you're 50, even all of your relationships, you're going to want to retire or you're going to want to just, you know, you go for the next thing. I mean, the reason people retire is they're in pain.

They're out of energy or they're forced to buy regulation. Yeah. Or you don't like your job. But there's skill badacles. And we live in a world where you can reinvent yourself pretty quickly.

And so I look forward to people like my dad who started a new career in his 80s. Yeah. He was now supervising clinical trials. And he's giving back to the communities. He's living with one of my nephews who's raising my dad.

My dad at 86, nearly 86 is raising his nephew. It should be the other way around. Right. But now he's so healthy. He's taking care of his grandkids.

And you know, it's better that way because imagine life the other way around. And you don't have to let you imagine it. Just go to Japan where people are age taking care of. Not just their parents. Sometimes the grandparents.

And their kids. And sometimes their grandkids. That's a huge burden on a generation to take care of both the people who are sick, older than them. And the young people who either don't have jobs or need help in other ways. Maybe how much funding did your lab lose in total?

It was millions. And we're just at the beginning of some of these grants. And one of the grants, by the way, was a career grant given to Kelly Rich, a postdoc who has actually been speaking out in the media as to the cruelty of these cuts to her. And the lab, she was working on ALS in a race to try and help during his mom. And we were making good progress.

We showed that these reprogramming chemicals and genes could treat neuromuscular disorders in mice. And we, not that far away with AI of having something that she could take as a pill. Perhaps some natural molecules. And to have the funding cut without really an explanation was more than a blow to us. We've lost a lot of money and also the spirit to go on.

We have a lot of amazing people that watch us podcast.

There are three ways that I want to invite you to join me in supporting David's research and his lab. Again, this is not a request he made. This is something I feel compelled to do because I care deeply about this work. I care deeply about having available personally for my family and for all of us. And hopefully what you've seen here so far convinces you that there is real value that's being created.

“And honestly, for the small amount of money that you spend, it's a travesty.”

Because it does compare a few million dollars to trillion dollars of upside, let alone lives being saved. So there is a link we're going to put in the show notes. That is to donate directly to his lab at Lab at Harvard. It's tax deductible. You can donate from $50 to $1,000 in welcoming or do that.

And I'm sure David would be super grateful for it. So let's do it. Yeah. The future is too important to not let it happen in our lifetime. Yeah.

Agreed. I mean, we hold two different futures in super position. And we have to choose which one we want. Yeah. Let's not be in the universe where things don't happen.

Let's make us get us into that universe where we're just thriving as a species. I love that. I love that.

And this is a subject that just gives me such incredible hope.

This is the most exciting time ever being alive. And if you want more of it, we're going to make it happen right here right now. And we all have that one thing in common right now, aging as a disease and a common biology to solve. We do. We'll stay healthy for longer. But ultimately, we have to be able to reverse aging if we're going to make it for a long time.

While we work on it, let's stay healthy. But then let's just fund these research projects and make the future a reality. David, I want to talk about another area. And then we're going to go to AMA questions. We have a, I put out a tweet.

“I'm going to be with David. What questions do you have?”

So we picked, you know, the top 20 or so that we're provocative and fun. But before we go there, I want to talk about what your longevity protocols are. So what are you doing? I mean, honestly, you'll look great, dude.

Yeah, I, you know, I went online and or at least my team did and found something published at NAD.com. I'm not sure how real it is because I don't think it's. They probably put it together from conversations you've had. I'll put the link in the show notes as well for folks if they want to see at least what was reported.

But let's run through these and tell me what's real, what's not real.

“Yeah, okay, do you want to see what you want to see the list here?”

Yeah, sure. Okay. And what's the main thing? There's a laundry list here. And I take like 80 supplements and meds a day. Yeah.

Well, you know, I do advise people on their longevity. So that they get an inside look. But I'm happy to share some of the key things to for everybody. I'm still on the, the standard stuff that was in. It's becomes a lifespan.

It wasn't standard when I published lifespan, but now it's become.

You know, NMN has become a billion dollar industry now.

Amazing. I mean, it's honestly due to you and just to clarify things, you're not backing any of these supplement companies. In fact, they use your name and their likeness without your permission. Right. Yeah.

Yeah. My lawyer has spent a fair amount of time and my money on stopping that. But new new companies pop up all the time, especially overseas. But yeah, I don't, I don't currently sell anything. So the, the main things are, so let's start with the basics.

Yeah. Do what you do. So there's the sonas. There's the exercise. We're lifting is important, especially for men or pilates for women, a bit of weight lifting.

And then eating is important too. Serena is a, is a train nutritionist and chef and longevity expert. She came in and changed my life to four years ago.

I stopped eating a lot of meat.

Have you gone vegan completely? No, 90 percent. What would you say? It's 90. 95.

Yeah. I eat out and sometimes I break the rules for celebration. Sure. But I want to enjoy life. Yeah.

But I'm definitely planned focused. And a few things happen when I switch to plants as my main diet. I felt better. I could eat more, which was great because I love food. Yeah.

And my mind cleared. And that might have also been because I gave up alcohol almost all the time. So just another point I have given up alcohol except for, you know, an celebration. Yeah. I showed us the difference.

Yeah. I mean, I'm so sensitive to alcohol. It just makes me sleepy. And, you know, weight gain if you're, if I'm drinking too much. But I used to have like a little bit of wine now, taste and wine.

Tonight is an exception. My deputy family, the Reese family is having the bar mitz for their son. And so my friend is like, I've got the best, you know, the best bottles of wine. Okay. I'm going to drink a glass of wine tonight.

Good. Well, you look like you're looking after your weight really well. Yeah.

I think you've never looked so good.

But in terms of weight, gaining weight is a bad thing. It puts our bodies into abundance mode. Yeah. I've talked before about abundance mode versus adversity mode. We can have abundance mode occasionally.

You know, it can eat a steak. You can eat a lot of our food. But for the majority of the time, you want to be in adversity mode.

“So that's why I try not to eat more than two meals a day.”

If I can, sometimes one. And the plants help because the plants are seen to signal also to the body. They're filled with polyphenols that also give the signal of adversity. GLP ones. Let's just plug that in right here.

What's the evidence right now? Your mind is a pro longevity medication. Pretty good. Actually, certainly if you're overweight, getting it. Yeah, sure.

But in addition, someone like you and me, would it have longevity benefits? I mean, I think if it's used judiciously, I wouldn't use it chronically. Because there is some side effects, including muscle loss, but also some kidney and Anchorious issues, potentially even blindness is a risk. The disease that, or the incident that we're going to treat next year,

with the age of results collected by the sexes. Yeah. So that's non-ischemic. Autoridic, non-artoridic, ischemic optic neuropathy. The rates of that have doubled and tripled around the world because of these drugs. So it's not without risk.

So you've got to be careful using these peptides. But I think as a way to turn the body into a more adversity mode, they're excellent. I have tried them, not to lose weight, but just see how my blood work turned out.

And I saw some improvements. I think with your doctor's advice and permission. And there are many of these drugs at this point. Yeah, and they're getting easier to use. So there's an oral version now.

Yeah. I can see in the future that they'll be part of longevity programs. But again, I'm not endorsing them.

“I'm not saying you should definitely go do it.”

And I think one of the things that's important to note, and I just, again,

If you're using a GLP1 to lose weight, the challenge is you lose the weight. You also lose muscle. And then when you stop the GLP1, you just put on fat. And again, you don't put the muscle back on. But there's an easy solution, right? Work out.

Yeah, you keep working out. It's some effort involved. Yeah. But just, you know, some setups push ups, and whatever. And you use and use the GLP1 drug as a way to get into new habits.

Right? Getting habits of not eating as much or going to a, you know,

“what meal do you miss if you're going to miss a meal breakfast breakfast?”

Yeah. And I believe lunch. And the thing with GLP1 is even if you were to just fast and stop eating as much, you are going to lose muscle mass. It's not just that the drugs are causing muscle loss.

It's what happens when you don't eat as much. Yeah. And so really, you do have to keep the muscle mass up. And I wouldn't use testosterone alone to combat that muscle loss. It really is better to be working out to stop that.

And you know, clearly, you're a good example of that. And a men, what source do you use? What sources are out there? Because I remember when Tony Robbins and I were writing our book Life Force. When we looked at this, a lot of the NMN sources were not reputable out there.

And then, of course, a lot of companies have stopped putting NMN out for sale because of what's going on with Metrobiotech and the idea of having NMN become a medicine versus a supplement. So what give us some knowledge there?

Well, the first is about NMN as a supplement on, can you trust it?

And, you know, I'm not in the business of testing products. It's not what I do. But I do test NMN sources when I give it to mice. And we have a study that we're just revising, showing NMN extends lifespan. Mostly in female mice, but it did improve frailty and a lot of health related things.

So we do test NMN and we've tested a bunch of them. And we find that there are things in there that you wouldn't want in there like endotoxin, which is highly inflammatory parts of bacteria. And so if you're going to-- If you publish it, did it?

No, I wanted. It's only-- Is that climate related? We might publish it. I mean, it's super useful. We should do that.

I mean, somebody should be-- Well, listen, you've made NMN household name. The number of people-- Well, whether you like it or not because you talked about the value of this, you didn't do it to try and sell NMN.

You did this because you're talking about its impact on increasing NAD levels that are selling it. And I haven't made any money off it. In fact, I've-- Yes, a lot of money in clinical trials.

No, I mean, there's been like $30 million worth of my money and others

to do clinical trials to test a version of NMN in humans. It's cost me a lot to try and validate NMN as a molecule. Well, one of the advantages, if Metrobiotic has a particular crystallized NMN

“that they're testing in a wide range of medical conditions, right?”

That's right. And I don't see why they can't exist in the same universe that supplements, which are not under FDA approval, usually. They're not prescribed by doctors, but there's an ultra pure pharmaceutical grade crystalline stable form that has been shown to work that can be prescribed.

That's been shown even for fish oil. GSK actually, our friends at GSK made a fish oil. They're still available in the market. Yeah, and it's a-- It's a pharmaceutical.

It's a drug. Yeah. Because of its purity. Yeah. Yeah.

And so, but the reason I would use the Metrobiotic NMN if and when it becomes approved as a drug is because I'm sure of quality and purity. That's right. Yeah. And then, to get to the FDA thing, I see on social media people accusing me of being

the one to take off the market. That's absolutely not true.

“I think everybody should have access to it.”

Otherwise, why would I talk about it? I do think though that there should be some better regulation on how pure this stuff is because there was a study that showed that thing was roughly half of them didn't have what was on the label. And it degraded over time. Yeah, exactly.

In the non-crystalline form. Exactly. But what I would actually have-- I'll explain what actually happened. Please.

So Metrobiotic, it's not my company. I've invested in it, and there's a chairman and a board. And so they made the decision that they would support BFDA in looking at an amen as a supplement. And there's a law that says, if you're using a molecule in clinical trials, it shouldn't be sold as a supplement.

To protect the $30 million investment that the people are putting in,

I didn't want Metrobiotic to get involved with the FDA that was not my decision. But I don't run that company.

“There are very few companies that I actually have 100% control over.”

But I am learning that it's better to-- Yeah, that's a company that you all have figured ahead of. Yeah. But in this case, I couldn't stop that. But I think where we're at now is that there's some gray zone about that.

I mean, I'm seeing an amen for sale. Yeah.

Let me clarify something. So ultimately, what you're trying to do is raise your interest

cellular NAD plus levels, or NAD levels. That's the angle. And the sort of two ones need that NAD-- It's the powerhouse. Yeah. So NAMN can cross the cell membrane and inside the cell gets converted to NAD correct?

Yeah. You know, academics allow you over everything. I don't think it's still 100% agreed upon as to how NAD is made from NAMN. There's some work by Shinemi at Washington University that there's a transporter even high up in the gut that absorbs it into cells and through the gut membrane.

But there are people who say, oh, NAMN has to be broken down first. The fort gets into NAMN at NAD. And then there's NAR and the continuum I'd rob aside. Which is what's used to make NAMN in the cell. Right.

And so you have this sequence.

“So some people are arguing that you should take NAR.”

So people are going to take NAMN.

Other folks are doing NAD IVs. And my wrong and believing that NAD IV is not getting into your cell. Oh, I think that NAD drips all raise the intracellular NAD. Probably because it gets broken down. And then it gets reabsorbed.

Yeah. But the unfortunate thing within NAD drips, even though they're very popular, is that we still rely on anecdotal evidence that they do something. And I would love to see some more studies on that. But what I can say about oral NAMN,

we have spent money studying that. And when I say we, the scientists that conducted the study, and I was one of the middle authors on that, have shown that NAMN in small groups of people improves blood pressure and cholesterol and lipids,

and even seems like it works on strength and endurance. So, you know, in terms of living up to what we saw in mice, it is looking promising. And there are at least five clinical trials at Metro Biotech. Now, looking at whether it's efficacious in a disease state.

Yeah. Alzheimer's kidney function. It's all on the website. And so with five and hopefully six shots on goal, the idea is that one of those will work.

The other thing that's interesting is there's a new molecule that they saw that. So, MAB 626 was the old molecule. Yeah, 626 is my birthday, by the way. Yeah, that's where it came from, and then 725. So, almost happy birthday.

So, 725 is the new molecule, MAB 75. And that's where they say of Anthony Salve, my great colleague, who passed away during COVID. And he was at Cornell. But we miss him, dearly.

And so, that hopefully if that makes it onto the market, it'll be his legacy. Nice. A quick aside, you probably heard me speaking about fountain light before. And you're probably wishing Peter, would you please stop talking about fountain light?

An answer is no. I won't. Because, genuinely, we're living through a healthcare crisis. You may not know this, but 70% of heart attacks have no preceding. No pain, no shortness in breath.

And half of those people with a heart attack never wake up.

You don't feel cancer until stage three or stage four. Until it's too late. But we have all the technology required to detect and prevent these diseases early at scale.

“That's why a group of us, including Tony Robbins, Bill Cap,”

and Bob Hurri, founded fountain light, a one-stop center to help people understand what's going on inside their bodies before it's too late. And to gain access to the therapeutics to give them decades of extra health span. Learn more about what's going on inside your body from fountain light. Go to fountainlight.com/Peter. And tell him Peter sent you.

Okay. Back to the episode. All right. Let's run down a few of these. So Vice-it-in, LePoc Acid, EPA, DHA, Victorian comments on those.

Yeah. I mean, physique is a molecule we actually first discovered to be a longevity molecule before. It was known as a synthetic. Yes. Vice-it-in, of course, it's in together.

Although the people that now talk about physique and just ignore our research. But that's how. Is that the Australian pronunciation of it? What's it in versus vice-it-in? Yeah.

I think it doesn't matter. What did you say? The TIN. But we showed. The CITIN is a sort of two an activator, just like with virtual.

Yeah. And so I think it might be doing both things is to either calm down or kill innocent cells at high doses.

Because I think of any ideas, the gas or the petrol for the enzyme.

And then the accelerator pedal of these polyphenols, like physique and and residual. And together they have a double whammy of benefit. LePoc Acid, I did a PhD on that when I was in Australia. I've always liked it. And then I started taking it about 15 years ago when I was introduced to one of my heroes.

Denham Harman, who came up with a free radical theory of aging, and he was still in the lab at 92. And I said, "What's your theory? What's your secret?" And he said, "It's alpha LePoc Acid."

“But the free radical theory of aging has really been kind of disproven, hasn't it?”

Yes, but I still admired him for being a lab at 90. Sure, but I mean, for those people who are thinking, "Oh, I need to be dealing my free radicals." Um, that appears not to be one of the primary reasons of aging. Uh, well, indirectly it is because we know DNA breaks are going to accelerate aging. Sure.

And free radicals can damage DNA. But it's not the holy grail. It's taking antioxidant doesn't extend. The lifespan of animals very much. Okay.

You mentioned old touring just had a paper published on it.

Yeah, just came out in science. Raphael de Cabo is a very good friend of mine for 25 years. And he was the one that just showed that El Torring levels don't decline apparently in humans or monkeys or at mice. Because I was like, you know, I started a year ago because of all the news about it, you know, it's...

Yeah. And now... Now it doesn't look as promising, but that way. And so I would say it's not going to hurt you. But I think there's less likely what that it's going to extend your lifespan.

By the way, Enemine, one gram. That's what I tell you. Is there any...

“If you do two grams or three grams, is there a problem with going more than a gram that you know of?”

Well, I'm just curious. Well, I always... I have in the bunch of supplements. So I'm like, yeah. Well, it's published that both one gram and two gram have benefits.

Mm-hmm.

And that one gram will double your NAD and two grams will roughly triple it on average.

But in my personal opinion now, I don't think it makes sense to go any higher. Your body will just repeat out anyway. And there's no point taking the risk. But I know one gram and two gram seem to be safe in short-term human clinical trials. Got it.

We've talked about resvertral, spermidine, vitamin D, vitamin K. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Low dose aspirin? Still yes.

Okay. But that's interesting because a lot of people have heard at least through the great vine that aspirin shouldn't be taken. So here's the deal. And you know, I actually read the papers, aren't just read, woulder. When you go into the literature, the reason that doctors are mostly against aspirin these days is that they're balancing the risk reward.

Mm-hmm. Now the reward is prevention of clots and cardiovascular risk. Now that the risk is that you get stomach bleeding. And based on the numbers, it wasn't clear if it was worth taking aspirin with the risk. But that's for the average human, and there is no such thing as an average human.

Mm-hmm. The really medicine should be breaking it down is to the you paid or what's good for you. Do you want an aspirin or not? And by the way, I, everything we've spoken about so far, I do take including aspirin. 81 milligrams a day.

Anyone milligrams, right? Maybe aspirin. They'll take a coded one. Yeah, I do. So that reduces the risk of any stomach issues.

“But here's the thing, that there are people at risk of cardiovascular disease.”

And then it does make sense for them to take an aspirin. It makes perfect sense for me to take it because I genetically have high levels of LP little lay. Now I do too. Yeah. By the way, I'm so excited about the new drug that's coming out for LP little lay.

Yeah, it looks promising. Yeah. It's just, it's in phase three. It should be coming out in the next 12 months. Yeah.

Because right now, you know, it's, there's very little it moves and needle there. Yeah. It's really hard to bring it down. I know from experience. Yeah.

You know the same boat, trimethyl glycein. Um, I don't take that. Either do I. No. Okay.

I've, there's this unfounded claim that. And a man and an AD boosters to plead your methods and that you need to take this to supplement it. That's just based on wild speculation. There's no evidence from anything we've done that that's true. So I stopped taking metformin.

Are you on it still? Occasionally. Occasionally. Occasionally. Occasionally.

Um, I'm unburbering instead. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. Now I, I found that metformin was really rough on my stomach and they all dry get.

I find it, it's, it's rougher. But bubering seems to be great. Yeah. I do that. I start metformin mostly for the focus on muscle growth.

Yeah. There's that. But also I want to speak about that. Please. Because I find that most people don't read the papers.

And if you do, what you see is that.

Yeah.

Even from from some doctors who talk about this is that it blunts muscle growth.

Okay. When you actually dive into the data, you see that the graph was misrepresented. Wow. Guilty as charged. Yeah.

“Well, the, the one thing you should never do as a scientist is cut the y-axis off and exaggerate the difference.”

But that's what's, what they did. It's only a five to five. Just looks better. Ha. All right.

Let's go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one.

I'm going to go to the next one.

I'm going to go to the next one.

I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one.

I'm going to go to the next one. I'm going to go to the next one. What do you think about rap arts? I'm less excited about it. It was the darling because it works really well on in bright animals.

It's seemingly might even work in dogs. But in humans, there was a study that came out. There was probably six months ago that compared the effect on the epigenetic age of people in different clinical trials. And while some things worked really well, like Clark Restriction, what else was important.

I think a carbo's worked really well. Metformin looked better than I thought it would. Rap and mice had no effect on the age of the epigenome. And so that combined with the known potential risks of down regulating the immune system.

“Let me explain later why I think that that's bad.”

I decided only to take it rarely. What occasion would you take it on? I probably take it four times a year. So it's just pulsed. Yeah, and I'm monitoring myself.

I know if it has benefits or not, and I do see some. Are you monitoring your immune system? You're monitoring everything. Yeah, I'm monitoring my immune system. I'm counting the cells that I have.

The different types and cytokines and inflammatory cytokines. And I want to keep those as low as possible. Keep down inflammation, inflammation aging. So I want to talk about why down regulating your immune system might be bad. Yes. Now you want to downregulate your inflammation, but you want to have

a really active immune system when it comes to cancer and viruses. And those two things are real risks as we get older. Sure. There are endogenous viruses that come out like CMV. And as CMV is is pernicious.

It's an epidemic out there. I mean, one thing that people don't realize is there's something called immuno exhaustion. Right? Where your immune system is fighting all these battles against herpes against CMV against,

“how many different viruses do you think are endemic in the human being?”

On average, it's approaching a thousand now when you do deep sequencing. Incredible. And if they're fighting those viruses, your innate system is not there to fight cancer. Yes, there's that. And the other issue is that these viruses like CMV, they lead to what our immune disorder is potentially like CMV is linked to multiple sclerosis now.

Interesting. And so you do not want CMV circulating. And for that reason, I don't want chronic downregulation of my immune system. Yeah, that's important to note. Let's jump into a few other elements here.

So thank you for that. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about that's high in your supplement medallist? Oh, there's lots but let's leave that. Okay. Alright.

So maybe the friends of Sinclair Lab will have an endoper type book too. And book too. Okay.

By the way, for those who are fans of David's first book,

Life, Life span, which I probably recommend more than my books. His next one coming out in 2026 is called "Life Span Survival." So, I can't wait. Thanks. Alright.

So, are there any special supplements or additions for women that you want to call out? Oh, gee. Well, that's a whole separate category. And Serena, my partner, is an expert in that. I usually defer to her. And I don't want to claim to be an expert on female hormone therapy.

But I do believe that hormone therapy is anti-aging. Mm-hmm. We see that in the literature. And also, there are some ways to delay menopause and perhaps even reverse it. And I talk about that in my book as well.

So, I think mostly for four women, it's hormonal. But there's other things like iron protein that they need certain times of the month as well. Do you know Jennifer Garrison at the box? Sure. Yeah. So, Jennifer is another another place that 20 and I have supported her research.

And she put forward. She was at exprise visioneering last October. And that's where we compete all these exprise ideas. And her work in what was being called the double exprise for women's longevity.

So, in the middle of designing that exprise, which will be super cool. Well, she's great. I have a superstar in my lab who, by the way, needs our support. Maria, she's such a superstar. The morning she gave lab meetings, so our lab meetings go for three hours on Friday mornings.

And she outlined her project to use these age reversal breakthroughs on women's fertility. Well, we need to get her either competing for the prize or helping to design the prize. For sure. She's also, by the way, using menstrual fluid as a biological clock and diagnostic factor, which is a great idea.

Amazing. Amazing. So, sauna.

Do you sauna? As much as I can. You know, I just purchased something called the healing sauna. It is a deep infrared sauna. It's relatively small about, you know, about yay big.

It's got a chair in the middle. And you're, it zips up around you with your head sticking out the top. And you have two arms slots, so I get in the morning. I'm on my computer doing my email. And I'm like, you know, in about 30 minutes, I get a great sweat.

Yeah. And you don't want to sweat too much. You want to sweat enough to get the toxins out, but not so much that you start losing other vital. Right. And turn on the heat drop proteins and you skin and maybe deeper.

Yeah, that's only important. And the science for sauna now is, is irrefutable. It is. It's a couple of thousand dollars for this thing, and it fits anywhere.

“So, if you want to increase your, so it's super easy.”

And I actually, I love it.

I'm looking to that because often the problem is we, we don't have space in our house.

Yeah. And this is actually, it's, it's like the size of this table. It's no bigger. And it collapses. And again, you sit in a folding chair inside.

And the elements are inside. And you basically zip this thing around your neck. It's got a frame. And it works. Does it get hard enough?

Yeah. I get, I mean, I get a really great sweat going in 30 minutes. It's not like instantly like 10 minutes. But I enjoy my 30 minutes. I'm meditating or watching videos into a book.

What was it called again? It's called healing sauna. Yeah.

I think you're just healing sauna.com.

Okay. So, one big question is fasting and fasting mimicking diet. So, when I looked into it, there was a lot of confusion about whether fasting actually moved the needle for humans. What do you think about it?

I know a lot about it. In particular, I was just recording my next podcast. And then it is on fasting and caloric restriction. Yes. And there's 80 pages of notes.

So, yeah.

“So, you have to do fasting the right way.”

There's, with all these diets. If you do it the wrong way, it can harm you, right? But you need to be educated. You need to make sure you're not overdoing it. And you're supplying yourself with enough vitamins, minerals, and protein.

And so, yeah, I do it. But I do it in a scientific way. And that's part of the challenge. If you don't do it without having regular blood tests, at least once every few months, I think, you know, it's probably, it's somewhat risky.

But in general, fasting has been shown forever. You know, since humans were... Sure. The legends have built in fasting into their annual clock. Yeah.

So, I still believe in the science of fasting. And it just has to be done the right way. And actually, there are some papers that show that if you do a vegan diet, this is just separate. But in a good example, a vegan unhealthy diet will make you live shorter,

but a vegan healthy diet will make you live longer. You're just going to make sure you're eating the right things. And the same with fasting. You got to time it with your circadian rhythms. You got to eat the right food at the right time.

You can't just eat French fries once a day. And hope that's going to make you live longer. So, I'm very vocal about the notion that sugar is a poison. Me too. It's...

I regard it as a poison, yeah. I just want to echo... I mean, so a couple of data points here, right? We are eating in our diet today. If you look at the numbers, on the order of ten times more sugar than we did,

a couple of hundred years ago. And one of the things we just are getting ready to publish this data and found life. Right, so everybody coming through found life, we upload them. We get 200 gigabytes of data. It's like one of the most complete data uploads you can possibly do in five hours.

Full body MRI, brain, brain, vasculature, coronary CT,

“looking for soft plaque, not calcified plaque, right?”

Soft plaque is what kills you these days. And if you have a high calcium score, it doesn't mean much unless the calcium is blocking your coronary artery. If it's cement on the side of the walls, it's stable. But it's the soft plaque that could evolve in the middle of night.

Block your artery and you don't wake up.

Right, we do low dose lung CT, we do dexiscan, tablox,

“140 blood biomarkers, you're got microbiome,”

retinal scan, skin scan, all of that. What when am I going to get it? Yeah, please come. I'm just saying, no, I'm serious. No, please come.

I'd love to try it.

And as my guest, we're opening up LA here in the first quarter of 26.

And of course, we're operational in Dallas today. We're opening up Houston before the end of this year. We have New York going Orlando and Naples going and opening up Miami. So. So we've got congratulations.

Thank you. Really, really when you were just talking about it. That what correlates highest with heart disease. And it wasn't L.P. Little A or triglycerides or LDL or HDL. It was your hemoglobin A1C.

Right. And I mean, it's like you can control that. Well, you can and it starts with good diet and lifestyle and exercise, for sure. But the drugs now that are available, you can either prevent the absorption with their carbose, you can pee it out with this GLT2 inhibitors.

You can take met four men or berine. Yeah. And then there's others.

“And so yeah, if you've got a good physician, you should be able to control your”

blood glucose these days. Of course, the GLP ones shouldn't forget. It's it's crazy. Okay. One or two more subjects.

I want to go into the AMA. We have so many fans of yours that have written out questions here. I just got back from Hong Kong.

And one of the things that I was speaking about there was the notion that a breakthrough

in China works in Chicago, you know, a breakthrough in Boston works in Beijing. You know, we all share all a billion of us share the same fundamentals of longevity. And so unlike AI, which is a battle for a winner take all, you know, the idea of being able to give people longevity is something that is arising tied for everybody. I'm curious where, you know, so when I run my, my platinum longevity trips, we're currently

doing them one year on even years. We're in San Francisco and San Diego, which is sort of a cluster for longevity. And then on odd years, like this year, we'll be visiting you and George and a number of other incredible people in Boston Cambridge and Dean Cames in New Hampshire, which is another cluster if you would.

What's going on in the rest of the world? Who, what's hot? Who, where are the clusters of longevity work? Well, there are nations that have stood up and said, we're going to invest in this. And so in Asia, it's Singapore.

In the Middle East, pretty much all the countries, but Saudi Arabia, UAE, and now Qatar are big on longevity. And then it's just distant Earth and fourth and fifth. The Western world is not really getting into it besides the US. It's a little bit in the UK, a little bit in Australia.

But other than that, it's just pockets of really good labs, but not really an industry. But I wish that, in the same way, we just saw a couple of trillion dollars put into AI by the Middle East that they would get longevity religion. I mean, it's, you know, and start pouring trillions into into this space. And I hope we can get there.

I hope we can get there because I do fundamentally believe this is, you know, you've spoken

about this, you've been really the first person to speak out that aging is a disease

that when we're able to cure and reverse this, it is going to uplift every society. And God knows that South Korea, Japan, China, Italy, most of Western Europe, need longevity. They're disappearing as nations. Yeah. Well, that's the other thing.

It used to be that we're going to overcrow the planet if we are slow down aging, but we need those. Need the current existing people to stay healthy and productive because they're running out of people.

“Are we seeing, are we seeing good work coming out of, out of China as an area?”

Do you know that? Are there scientists? I'm just, I'm curious what's going on there. They are more than a decade behind the US right now. But we're seeding to them right now. You know, we're putting our science by more than half.

Oh, that stuff. So I think China is laughing all the way to the IP patent office. And we really risk our lead in this area. And, you know, while AI is neck and neck, we have a big lead in longevity, but we could lose that.

For sure.

All right. Let's jump into questions from your fans.

All right.

“So the first one was what role is AI playing in your search to reverse aging?”

We heard about that already. A very big, big role. Yeah. When did it start becoming a big role in your lab? Oh, we started using it about three years ago. But now we don't go against that.

Exactly. And think about this that what we do now in two months would have taken thousands of years to do. Yeah. You can say it, but just let that sink in. The prediction, the predictions that I made five years ago are out the window because of AI.

Mm.

Now I'm much more optimistic.

So the new books can update those predictions. Exactly. Yes. Okay. Fantastic. Ad Safia 3000 says, is there a role for epigenetic reprogramming to end ovarian aging and restore ovarian function? The Maria will answer that in my lab PhD student. So yes, we do believe that we can reverse ovarian aging.

We already were the first group with our Australian offshoot to show that you can reverse infertility in old mice. Mm-hmm. That was a shocker because people said, oh, mammals run out of eggs, right? Yeah. But we took 16 month old mice, which had become infertile six months earlier and reverse them and made them produce pops again.

Wow. I know it's possible, even with NMN, it worked. Wow. And try that even better technology, the stronger technology, the epigenetic reprogramming.

Incredible. And, you know, most men are very ignorant about ovarian aging and yeah.

I mean, just to pass along some facts for folks, something like only five or six species on the planet go through menopause. You know, it's three species of whales, a normal and humans go, it's crazy. You imagine everybody does, but no, that's not the case. And if you're a guy, the age at which your sister went through menopause actually correlates with how long your live. Right. It's really a good indicator of longevity. Fascinating.

All right, at Glenn Origin asks, how close are we to making partial cellular reprogramming safe and scalable for human use? What's your current stance on any D+ boosters or NMNNR and IVNAD+ still viable? Or is there a next evolutionary evolution emerging? Is gene therapy still your most promising delivery method for Yamanaka's?

“We've sort of covered many of those. I don't know if you want to add anything on there.”

That was a very long question. But it's testing your memory. Yeah, it really is. I think what we're very close will go into our first humans, hopefully, by this time next year, we might know if that works. From then on, it's probably a year or two before we do whole body rejuvenation. That works. Imagine.

I mean, it's just, it feels like it's science fiction. It feels like it's the future. It's like we're living in the Star Trek universe with, you know, AI at this level and talking about whole body rejuvenation. I mean, what an extraordinary time to be alive. It is. It is the future. The future looks so bright. We have to make it happen.

Yeah, we absolutely have to. So at ETHOR or NALDS as when can we expect results on human trials of OSK Yamanaka factors? I think you've answered that. We're going to see human trials. This is the life biosciences work. It's starting in January.

Yeah. Okay. At Nixing, Want to know when is your next book coming out? We shared that. So it's 2026.

And it's called Life Span Survival. I'll tell you what it's about. Please, yeah, I love that. So life span was more of a textbook. It was, why do we age?

Yeah. And how does this all work and what will happen to the planet when this happens? Book two is really answering all the questions that I've been getting since. And it's so think of life span two the book as the guide book. How do we optimize our bodies?

Looking at our evolution, the genes that we all carry. How do we individualize our lifestyle, supplements, medicines to maximize our longevity? And then what do we do for the next 10, 20 years going forward? And I look at it from the individual perspective.

At the molecular level all the way through to society. Fantastic. At Dana brilliant, right? What's your exercise routine? How much protein do you eat? Okay. Her name was brilliant. I like that.

Yeah. So the routine is whenever I can, I get to the gym. And often I'm on plane. So it's hard to work out on planes.

“But I think it's very important a few times a week to get to the gym”

or at least at home have something some way you can lift. And then walk around on a treadmill. Moving moving moving and keeping, especially after the age of 50,

Smoking is the new, I mean, sitting is the new smoking is, I like to say.

And for me the tricks are, I have a stationary bike. I take my zoom meetings on my stationary bike. It works well. Yeah. So if you have ever been on a zoom meeting with me, it looks like I'm in space because I'm standing, but I'm moving all the time.

And so yeah, I don't sit down during the day. I try not to at least. But that's one trick. Protein, I eat a lot of protein, but it's mostly plant-based. Sure. So, you know, for me, I put on 10 pounds of muscle mass about about two years. You got 18 months ago and my job is to keep it on now.

“And it was creatin. Do you take creatin as a supplement?”

No, but I'm considering it. Yeah. I mean, it looks like all upside down side for me. So I do five grams of creatin. And it was one, you know, one gram of protein per pound of body weight. And there's a lot of debate on how much protein our friend on the street here is at UCLA is not liking so much protein about.

Well, I tend to... Well, I tend to... Yeah, this is Walter. And also Dudley Laming is my ex-tudent, he's now a professor. And he's done some of the most work on looking at amino acids and how they affect longevity.

Mm-hmm. And there are some really good amino acids and there are some that will reduce your lifespan. Mm-hmm. And there are what's called branch-chain amino acids. Lucy-nice-illucing-veiling.

That are the bad ones. Mm-hmm. And you get a lot of that from meat. But try not to eat a lot of meat. Plants have less of these amino acids.

What's your favorite protein source from plants? Oh, lentils. lentils, yes. Okay. Ayoko Novo-1 asks... Dr. Davidson Clare, what single experiment would you definitely

falsify your epigenetic noise? Okay.

“What experiment would falsify your epigenetic noise theory of aging?”

Is there something that if you ran it would disprove that theory? Oh, yeah. It's easy to disprove it theory. It's much harder to prove it. Lots of things could disprove it.

For example, the ice mice. If we had accelerated the epigenome aging. So changing the methylation powder and the gene expression. And those mice were normal and didn't look old. Then I would have thrown out the theory.

Mm-hmm. But they did look old. And that was the reason that I thought it's likely to be true. Because the chances that it would fail were 99%. But that one percent it worked.

Wow. All right. Good to think with asks, what AI advancement would be the most useful for your research? Oh, that's great.

I would love if AI could tell me who the observer is, where the observer is. We've been working on that. But would love it if they said we just analyzed all the world's data. And it's got to be this result. That would help.

That's my dream is before I die to figure out. And has the cell rejuvenated? You have the AI published the paper for you as well. Well, that's almost doable now.

“But I think that also being able to do drug development even better than we do now.”

To be able to say this one molecule is your candidate for going into humans would be amazing.

We're not there yet. You know, it says top 100 but going down to one. And like you said, having a digital twin and being able to simulate the interaction with all the proteins in the body. Okay, that one's probably going to be toxic, but this one will work. That would be, we're probably only a few years away from that.

And eventually you'll just do it on your phone. We'll talk about, oh, let's cure whatever disease on your phone. By the time you get home, it's told you how to do that. It's, yeah, I love that. I have a question that pops in mind here.

There's a crazy statistic about the non reproducibility of research data. I mean, it's like half of the research out there. I'm not sure if it's that high, but can't be reproduced. Well, what's going on there? Yeah, it's that number is an exaggeration. We, we sometimes struggle to reproduce people's data.

And it's because you're using a different cell line, different water supply. It's different handler, the mice don't behave the same way. So it's not that the people are faking it. It's more that science is complicated and variable and depends on where and how you do it. And some labs rejoice in disproving things.

I don't do that.

I always assume I'm the one that it's not working or the reason it's not working.

But there are labs that thrive on not reproducing people's data. And it's super easy to not reproduce someone's result. Sure. I could easily do it. Just change one thing and it's not going to work.

So there's that category. But of course, there's a lot of research that isn't done rigorously like this touring paper. It might have been due to just inherent variability taking one time point. It's not going to work over the lifespan of longitudinal same humans. You do see it.

So there are sometimes there's some bad science, but I think that number is exaggerated. I'm very happy to say that none of our papers have ever been disproved or had to be retracted or changed their conclusions.

We work really hard to make sure that everything we do is very reproducible. In fact, we don't publish something unless our lab and another lab can reproduce it. That's super high standards.

“OK, at Robert ZX writes, what one area do you want to see more innovative startups tackling?”

Is there something that-- In longevity or not? I assume so in the biotech longevity world is. I would love more labs to be working on finding new ways to reverse aging. Right now, we have three genes that we know work.

That's our technology, and we have some small molecules working on. But then it's all white space for people to get into. We do have some competition, right? We've got altos and the others. But I think that this area is similar to AI.

There's just that there's so much that can be done. And it's not like one company is going to win everything. If you're talking about potentially being able to treat and/or cure most diseases, you could have hundreds of companies being very successful in this area. I would like to see more jump in.

One of our mutual friends, Dr. Zeverankov from Ensilical Medicine,

has built an amazing lab that is AI and robotic driven.

So the AI proposes the experiment, the robots run the experiment overnight, get the data, iterate on the theory, and so forth. Does anything like that exist in Boston right now? I'm not aware of it. That sounds, that's the future for our Alex's onto it.

Yeah, I think that humans will just play a minor supervisory role in future of drug development. Now, right now, we humans are more creative than AI. We can imagine things that AI cannot, but that is only a few years from mapping. Super seated by AI that can have an imagination just like ours.

I, by the way, actually, I believe that we're going to see consciousness in these machines. Yeah. I just tweeted out, because I just finished listening to a book about the evolution of intelligence, which... Max Bennett, I think is the author, and it's a great book. And he talks about how we evolved our intelligence and starts with language, by the way, which, no, now we're doing LOM, so it's early stages of human evolution over the last million years.

But there's not that many steps that between, once you've got language to becoming sentient, it's almost a given. Wow. I'm about to go on a tweak vacation to Lasko and my family, and I'm looking for a book to read.

“I think you just found it for me. You remember the title of it?”

I think it is the evolution of intelligence. Fantastic. Oh, it might be a brief history of intelligence. Every day, I get the strangest compliment. Someone will stop me and say, Peter, you have such nice skin.

Honestly, I never thought I'd hear that from anyone.

And honestly, I can't take the full credit. All I do is use something called one skin OS-1 twice a day every day. The company is built by four brilliant PhD women who identified a peptide that effectively reverses the age of your skin. I love it. And again, I use this twice a day every day.

You can go to 1scin.co and write Peter at checkout for discount on the same product I use. That's 1scin.co and use the code Peter at checkout. All right, back to the episode.

“Jared Michaels writes, when will poor people be able to extend their lifespan?”

Yeah, so one of the things that we get critique on all the time is the expectation that it's going to be super expensive. And it is initially that the gene therapy is not cheap. But as I've said today, we're working on making it as cheap as possible. I could see it being a dollar or less the dose eventually.

Well, I mean, by the way, patterns run out. So even if the company recoups its money, it'll eventually be like aspirin. I mean, you know, Mederna's COVID vaccine was between a dollar or two dollar a dose.

When you're providing something to a billion people, it gets really cheap.

Yeah, and actually based on what my lab is doing now, I see no reason why for a few cents a day everybody could afford a longevity pill. Yeah, I mean, it's a beautiful vision. All right, let's see, V or Vladimir Adelnor asks, what is the difference between the current longevity metrics and actually being young? I can at age 22 go and get in the fight, get drunk, do an overnight while still operating many high school work at perfection. Whereas longevity folks can't do any of that.

We can't. I don't know. I feel like I can do anything like that. But listen, I'm not, I'm not going to put on nighters like I did in my 20s. Yeah, right. Well, our organs are not optimized. Still, the gene expression. So the epigenome has degraded. You and I have lost some of that information. So our liver cells are not pristine anymore. They are behaving a little bit more like a nerve cell or a skin cell.

So that's why I think we, you and I cannot do an all night or now and get away with it. Yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't. I mean, I now look at an old person. I don't see them as an old person. I just see someone who needs a reboot. I love that. Oh, that, hey, you want a reboot? Come on over here.

Right, uh, at Jake in, uh, Kingsley says, what are the second and third order effects?

Once aging has been cured, does life have more meaning before it, um, because it's finite. Now, so this is, it gets in the philosophical conversation here. And I, I, I love your thoughts in this. I definitely have opinions, please. Uh, we may share them. Um, I am not enjoying this conversation because I'm worried about dying. I'm enjoying it because the moment is fantastic. And I don't think if the fact that I'm going to die one day,

makes this any more enjoyable. I believe every day is a joy. It's a gift and you make the most of it. And whether I'm going to live 80, 200, 400 years, I'm going to enjoy this moment just as much. Yeah, I remind people, listen, the average age for most of human history was like 30. Are you enjoying life now less because we've increased it two and a half or threefold?

I don't think so. I'm having a blast. I want to see as much of it as I can. Uh, you know, the impact of AI on purpose is going to be interesting.

“You know, I think that that's something important to do in this world of extraordinary abundance.”

Uh, and, you know, cognitive superpowers can we continue to keep ourselves engaged and excited about the future.

Um, there is another thing. When I'm when I have my longevity platinum trip, one of the first exercises I do with people

is I say, okay, uh, I want you right down the piece of paper, what you would do with 20 extra healthy years. Right, right down. And most people can. Most people can sort of think about 20 extra healthy years. Now I say, what you do with 50 extra healthy years and people's minds start to break. It becomes much more difficult for them to do that.

What would you do with 50 years? Well, what I do. Yeah. Oh, I keep researching and get us into new places. I had somebody asked me once, why don't I work on climate change? And I figure if we solve aging, that's what we're doing.

I mean, I love research. I love knowing things for the first time in human history. I'll keep doing sciences, science for as long as I am funded and can do it. Um, I love life too. It's just it's so much better than the alternative. But if you look at my father, you know, I didn't expect my father to live beyond 80, nor did he, by the way. And he is loving life like you wouldn't believe.

He's out every night with different people and a lot of them are good friends and women. And they younger than him. It turns out when you're 85, 86. Most people are younger than you. Is that.

And if you're a man, you're, you're, there's not a lot of competition at that age. But yeah, you know, look at him. You know, he would not say I wish I died at 80. Yeah, he will say he wants every day and he wouldn't mind another 20 years. Yeah.

“I think what we may have to do as a society is to what Sweden did,”

which is they recently paid their longevity to their retirement age. And so as longevity goes up, you work longer. It makes sense. You can't just sit around drinking cocktails. Yeah, and we'll have a revolt when that happens, but it makes sense.

But it'll slowly in chop. Let's say longevity goes up by a year in the country. You work for next year. Again, what's the alternative? Well, I think again, if you feel great, if you've got the energy,

if you got the cognitive clarity, if you got the mobility, right? You're going to want to do stuff. Yeah. And maybe there's a world where, you know, we've got AI and Android's where we don't have to work for us. We have a conversion of UBI, but health is still going to be the most valuable asset we have.

Yeah. All right. So, you know, second and third order effects. You know, one other thing that people ask is, "Oh, my God, overpopulation of the planet from people living longer."

“And of course, I think everybody listening to here in the moonshots knows the numbers here, right?”

We're, the replacement, a placement number of children per family is 2.1. Almost every country on the planet is below that. So, dramatically, right? South Korea is like 0.7 children per family. Japan is not far from that. Italy is evaporating most of Europe.

Yeah, the US economy is screwed by the way. Unless they do something.

Well, longevity is critical.

And robotics and AI are going to be critical. And somehow incentivizing people to build family, I think, is critical. Yeah. Or extend the fertility age of women. Yes.

Because a lot of women these days leave it till too late.

I mean, it's not fair to them.

You know, I had kids at 50, right? I'm 64 now. You're a young man. You're 64. Yeah.

You're looking great. Thank you. I feel great. And my kids are 50 and I keep on telling yes. When you're 50, I'll be 100.

And I'll still get your body. Yeah.

“Well, I think we, we, we tend to take it for granted that we can be photoile.”

And fit for for most of our lifespan. But women, it's, it's not fair. And, and they sometimes these careers take 40 years as a scientist. You're not mature until you're 40.

And the, and Hollywood paints all these pictures of women in their 40s having kids.

And that's a struggle. That is struggle. And it's through in vitro fertilization or egg donors. And it just is not communicated. So.

And after 30, it's a precipitous drop. Yeah. So, if you're a woman in your 20s, look at those numbers and realize that after 30, it's going to go down dramatically. Yeah.

And try to make life's plan until we figure out a solution. Breeze eggs. Is that? Yes. Peace fertilized eggs, if you can.

And, and follow these protocols. It's every indication that we can delay infertility by delaying aging. Yeah. All right. Mad scientist.

“If aging is fixed, and we all live for 500 years, what will happen next?”

What are all of the pros and cons of life past 150 years of age? I, you know, listen, I refer to Star Trek. It's like, there's a lot of universe out there. I just want to see it all. I also imagine, you know, uploading.

I think we'll get there. We just map the connectome of it, your saffola. Did you see that work? Yeah. It's amazing.

And I, I had on stage at my abundant summit last year. A gentleman, Michael Andregg, who is working on mapping a mouse. And he wants to, he believes the technology now exists to map a human brain fully uploaded.

The problem is it's destructive in process.

Yeah. That, that's a slight downside. You know, I'm going to have my, I'm going to have my AI up on the cloud. Over the speakers, it will say, hey, Peter, you've successfully uploaded. You can, you can kill yourselves now.

I'm sorry. Yeah. There's a good black mirror episode on that. I, you know, listen, I hit this for a second. I am pissed off, I'd black mirror.

I'm pissed off at Hollywood because we humans need a positive vision of the future to aim for. You know, we need a story that is, that is compelling and abundant and hopeful. And we don't have many of those. I mean, Star Trek was the one that really lit me on fire. We need more of those.

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And especially when it comes to longevity, it's, it's usually, oh, something's going horribly wrong. Yes. Yeah.

Exactly. Um, at Sharon Banks says, maybe ask about lunchebys, economic impact, keep it insightful. So, I want to drill down more into the Harvard London School of Business Oxford paper. Um, because I want to understand how we get to, uh, tens of trillions of dollars from one year of additional healthy life. Because that's what it's saying.

Yeah. I mean, the global economy is 110 trillion dollars. Was this for the US? So it was for the globe. You remember?

It was just US for one year of extra. It's the value to the economy. Um, and the value is the key word. Um, the value is how much a people willing to pay, it's called the, the willingness to pay. Uh, WTP.

“And the way economists use this number is they, they say, what's it worth to you to have an extra year of life?”

And the reason that the number balloons out astronomically is that is a positive feedback is that for every extra year that somebody lives. That it turns out they want more of that and they will need to pay for more of that. Yeah, and that's one of the main reasons. And then, of course, you can take away a lot of the healthcare issues. The longer somebody lives, the less burden they are on the economy.

And, uh, and that also factors in. Um, but healthcare is expensive. You know, somebody's got dementia or ALS like, uh, you know, my, my mother-in-law. This is super expensive. That's just one person causing tens of thousands a day to be looked after.

If that, if she was still healthy at 76, you know, she'd be still earning. She'd be looking after. She'd be spending. Yeah. Yeah.

So this is what Jim and I says research published in nature aging in 2021. You were an author on this paper, right? Yeah. Uh, by a team, including Harvard Oxford economist showed that a slow down in aging that increased life expectancy by one year is worth an estimated 38 trillion dollars to the global economy.

I, I wish I had been able to, uh, to feed that information that you wanted at the beginning of his. It's like, like, spend the government money solving aging. And then after we're about in this other stuff. Yeah. That would have been much better.

At Cassie Nova says what are the most effective over the counter modalities available today for under $1,000. So we talked about some of those supplements. I don't think any of them are expensive.

Exercise, you know, it's probably, I would think exercise like the most important modality.

How do you feel about that?

“I think, uh, yes, what you eat and exercise.”

Those are the two big ones relatively easy. Um, so a bit more technical to get your supplements, right? Because you got, it's tailored to you. Um, but cardiovascular disease, there's something that I've been taking for a couple of years now. Uh, and that actually has been showing in studies to reverse cardiovascular disease.

Duff's plough. What is it? It's called neto kinase. Oh, yeah. I take neto kinase as well.

Right. Yeah. I take it for, you know, post COVID on airplane flights just reducing clotting potentially. Oh, so that's the short term. But the long term benefit was there was a study with, I think, 1,086 people.

Uh, a Chinese study, but it was very well powered. And they showed that up to 95% of plough got removed in one year. Wow. Just by taking, uh, you, but you need at least, uh, 12 units a day. Um, they called five, if you units, but not if you, but, uh,

uh, for real, it units.

Uh, so I've been doing that and it's been, but far great.

I measure my corroded with the ultrasounder and there's no, no plough build up there at all. Um, so it's hard to reduce that, but I do take it as prevention. I see where I am on, not a kind of kind of kind of kind of. It kind of is an enzyme that digests Fibrean, which is probably not 100 milligrams. If you're, uh, block, I'm 100 milligrams of not a can.

I said, I don't know how many units that translates to. Yeah. I would say if you don't want to take a lot of pills, at least 6000 units would be good start. And then work up from there. But of course, do this with the knowledge of your physician.

Yeah. I have an army of doctors. I hire, I have, they're, you know, working for me in the life cell. That's true. But not everyone can do that, but still just in general, just as a warning.

Yeah. Um, if you do change your lifestyle supplements, just make sure you're doctor knows. Yeah, for sure. You know, one of the things I really so desperately want is, and it was a question only about what people should build. I want an AI model that will take in my genetics.

Take in my recent blood work. Take in my goals. Like, I want higher cognitive clarity. I want more muscle. I want more lung heavy.

What are your goals? Are you prioritizing them? And then how many pills a day will in the tick? Yeah. And it should spit out a prioritized list.

Because right now you go to one doctor. You'll get one set. You, you know, listen to you or me, you'll get another set. You listen to another person that are set. There isn't optimal.

There truly is. So it wouldn't be that hard, actually. No, it wouldn't be. The data's about there. We're working on that.

“But you go to doctors and most doctors would say, what's an echo kinase?”

They can't keep up with the literature. It's just too too much. But hey, I can. Hey, I can. Let's talk about something that you and I might differ on.

I'm curious. Sleep. I suck at it. How do you do? I got a 92 last night.

Which was very happy. Thank you. On my oron. I got. I won't tell you what I got.

I will tell you because I'll get a look right now. Last night was awful. I mean, I'm usually very proud of my sleep. Last night. I got a 64.

It's a lowest I've gotten in like a year. And I think it was. I've been so. Going 24/7. This week.

Getting ready for being gone for two weeks. And whatever it was, but I made up for today. Definitely. Good. Well, I try my best.

But you said to me. You said to me once you think. You can get away with less sleep. I have figured out how to do that. Okay, great.

Tell. It's about the amount of deep sleep that you get.

And so I've got to, which is the most important thing.

The supplement that I take that puts me straight into deep sleep. Is it a door a drug? Is it? Uh, Serena makes it. Uh, Serena sells it, actually.

Yes. But I, I'm happy. You're not promoting her. But I can't. What is it?

It's called sweet dreams. And it, it's changed a lot of lives. It's, uh, it's a mixture of. Relodos, melatonin, five HDPs, they'll find in. It's magical to.

Yeah. We'll find it.

“So, even if she wasn't my partner, I would say, that's what I take.”

Because I used to have in so many are really badly. And it's, I'm off ambient now. Oh, yeah. Ambient is terrible. You just get it on her website, Serena loves.com.

Okay. Fantastic. Well, thanks, Peter. Yeah, no. Again, I'm not here to promote it.

No, I, I get it. But, you know, we share what we know that works for us.

Yeah. Oh, another disclaimer. Yeah.

Just want to make sure everyone knows that my thoughts, my opinions.

What I just said, have nothing to do with how medical school. Right. They're just my employer. And they're not medical advice. No.

Okay.

“Sam, rank, rank in ma asks, what are the top 10 practical longevity tips?”

Top, top three for each organ. And which five longevity gadgets do you recommend? So, let's go with the last part. Let's go with the last part. We can go with gadget.

Gadgets, yeah. Now, home, we have a red light bed. It's a big one. You have the Thor, the lie down one. I have panels, right?

I think it is. Yeah, it's a big thing with a lid. It looks like a tanning bed, but it's not. Yeah, I love that. So, I do red light.

Many mornings as I possibly can. Yeah. The other thing I've been doing is I have a red light portable. And I put it outside the shower shining in. And so, as I'm in the shower, I'm getting red light.

And it's also a steam shower which is nice. So, that's one red light. All right. I use that on my head as well. Yeah, I have a red light cap for hair growth.

The estimulation. It's doing it. It's working. It's working. I still can't believe you're 65.

64. I'm sorry. It didn't mean to. That's okay. That's fine.

You know, I've gotten to a point where I'm standing my age with pride versus hiding it. Because I am. I am 64 and that's it. And I'm just like, you know, for me, that is a call to action to remain at highest health status for as long as possible.

Because we have incredible tech coming our way.

And I want to intercept that longevity scapegoats. Well, you're also a role model. And, you know, I feel like I feel like I'm 28 or 29. That's my internal and that's my internal number for myself. Yeah, I would say physically you look like you'd be in 30s 40s.

And you moved just like you were in your 30s 40s I bet. Yeah. And by the way, my father is a stronger fitter and more flexible than I am with better balance. And he's at 86. So it's very doable.

I, you know, on my birthday a few weeks ago and I pumped out a hundred pushups in a row, which was, you know, when I was in my 20s, the most I could do was 40 and I got to 50 and I've increased it from there. And I'm not saying that to brag. I'm just saying I use it as a measure for how I'm doing it.

In fact, in my longevity guidebook, I put my measurements that I've been measuring over the last few years, in terms of squads and pushups and, you know, all of the implying posts and such. And it's important for you to measure yourself. Of course, you need a lot of data from your, your dexus cans in your MRIs and so forth. The data, the data does matter.

Obviously you have an OR ring on too. I have a ring and I don't say what type it is.

“Okay, fair enough. Do you use, I don't have my, I see GM on, do you see GM?”

I do, yeah, not every week, but, you know, when I, when I feel like it's probably five times a year or something, and different brands are better than others. You want to try what and research what works. But monitoring your glucose, a lot of doctors, maybe not a lot of doctors, but I've seen some doctors say it's, it's irresponsible for people to have access to that data.

You can get to doctors. Yeah, you'll, you know, look online. There are some doctors or dead against CGMs unless you have diabetes and even then,

which I'm dead against. First of all, who you to say that I can't know about my own body, right?

I don't say. And that I'm not educated enough to understand this. I would say a lot of the people out there are just as educated about glucose, than, as, than their own doctors. So I'm, I'm definitely in the camp of, we have a right to know our own genetics, our own epigenetics, our own glucose levels,

and information is power. As long as you're telling your doctor what you're doing and talking to them about it, you've got to do doctor supervision. That's fine. When I talk to my doctors, they say, can we see the data? Good enough to see it, you know? Yeah, one thing that is, I'm curious about your thought here.

I hate the notion that the government prohibits me from participating actively in experimental treatments. If I'm at the end of the life, and, you know, my option is death in some of the romance.

“Why do I have to leave the country to go and try and experimental treatment?”

Why, if I'm of sound mind or if my family agrees, you know, right, right to use, right to try. Right to try is getting going, but, and it's done under doctor supervision. You don't just, I mean, you're a doctor, but most people don't just say, I want to try this, give it to me. It's, it's done under doctor supervision, so your physician makes the decision with you. So just the idea that, oh, it might, the uneducated decision is not true, same with you than Asia.

I mean, who, who, who, who we to say that you shouldn't do what you want with your life. All right, uh, and trophy asks a question I'm curious about, how long do you want to live? So, uh, there's interesting, when I'm, I'm a month's age, I'll ask people in the room here. How long do you think you're going to live? You have a number in your brain. And where do you get that number from? And why do you believe it?

And I find it fascinating that this, this mindset that people have this number can make has implications, right? Your, your mind is a very powerful force on how long you'll live. So you're asking me those times. I'm asking you how long do you want to live and why and why is the important part? Right. If you're willing.

“Oh, it's fine. I think it's a better question to ask when do you want to die?”

And as long as I'm healthy and I have friends, I find that there will never be a day when I want to die.

And I think that's true for just about everybody. You know, if you're sick, frail lonely depressed, that's when those thoughts come in. But I don't know anybody, and I've talked to thousands and thousands, people and big crowds. Like you, if you're healthy and have friends and family, do you want to die tomorrow? No, whatever says, yeah, take me out.

But when do I want to die? Never. I don't like the idea of being dead. I think it's pretty boring. But, you know, it doesn't mean I, I believe I'm going to live forever. But I also don't think that if I'm staying healthy and active and having fun, why would I want to die?

What would anybody want to die? Well, David, I truly love what you do. I consider you a dear friend, and I'm grateful for you in my life. Let me recap a couple of things for listeners at home, David's new book. Life spans survival is coming out in 2026. A number of you asked when is this podcast coming back? Well, David's podcast is coming back.

It's coming back this fall. What's it called? Well, I've spent with David's in clear.

“Awesome. And I asked earlier your producer, and if you want to get on his list to get access to it when it comes out,”

go to Davidaseinclair.com. What's the ASTN for, by the way? Andrew Andrew. Andrew is my dad. All right. Go to Davidaseinclair. My mind is Peter H.D. Amanda and Harry is my dad's name too.

You know, I sort of honor him with that. So, Davidaseinclair.com, and you'll see a, a subscribe button there. Please do, I will. A couple of other things, please join me in supporting David's research and his extraordinary team at his lab. In the show notes, you'll see a link to be able to donate it of $50K, $2,000 in cash.

$50K to $1,000 level through Harvard Medical School. It's tax deductible. We'll put up once again here, the QR code for the Coinbase wallet, where those of you can donate either stable coin,

“Ethereum, or Bitcoin. I hope you'll join me.”

And I would love to get like a massive surprise from somebody who comes in and says,

"You know, listen, we're going to match your $2 million budget. Here's some Bitcoin."

Yeah, so my lab runs on three million a year. Three million a year. Okay, so three million dollars. But someone does that, then I'll give them my entire protocol. Yeah, everything. I mean, what's it worth? In success, this is a micro investment for the impact on humanity. Yeah, and they'll be spin outs, too.

Yeah. And oh, by the way, you were there when it's Steve Aoki's, oh, yeah. So we were at an auction, and we were at the auction. And we were, I feel what you offered, but mine it was a tour of my lab, and that went for $100K. So all the friends are welcome to have that as a bonus to come by my lab and see what we're up to.

And the third approach is joining David, who, and myself as 50K level donors for Friends of Sinclair Lab,

just send an email to F-O-S-L at DMandis.com, and then we'll connect you back to a site we can tell us about yourself. And if you're serious about joining Friends of Sinclair Lab, you'll see David and I once a quarter, and we'll talk about what's the latest and greatest, what's going on your lab, what the investment opportunities are, what the breakthroughs are, and we'll see it. It'll be super secret.

And direct access, yeah, and we'll do it, we'll do it at least one dinner. Yeah, maybe more. Yeah, so David, where do we find you on Twitter? Uh, that is David A. Sinclair, and then on Instagram, it's David Sinclair PhD.

But he listened, this was fun. I enjoyed this. I really, really did.

It was really great to come up again.

“I'm going to see you in Boston at the end of September.”

And by the way, if you want more information to join me for my five day five star longevity platinum trip, it's kept at 60 people. We spend five days together with the most extraordinary scientists in the world.

Like David, like George George, like Dean Cayman, go deep for those days.

You can go to abundance360.com/longevity and learn more information about it. Excited to spend the weekend with you, and then in March at the abundance summit. Again, it's been a few years since you were there and so much, so much progress. In this age of AI, it's awesome. It is, yeah, and every year it just gets better and better.

And I also want to speak on behalf of everyone listening.

“I think we all feel the same way about you.”

You're a unique individual on the planet and thank God you exist.

But you make things happen that otherwise would never be in history.

And you've already shown that you've done that. But maybe with longevity, that'll be your legacy too. Yeah, I hope so. I look forward to partying with you on that. Thank you, my friend.

All right, buddy. Be well. You too. If you could have had a 10 year head start on the dot com boom back in the 2000s, would you have taken it? Every week, I track the major tech meta trends.

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