February Bonus Episode: Smizing Through the Trauma

I'm Ash, and this is Marvin, the bonus episode.

It's a bonus, it's a crazy bonus, it's a bonus about top model that was crazy in the day. I've been waiting to talk about this. Hey, literally, I'm so excited. I don't know if I already said this on the pod, but I have not stopped going around my house saying, "How many people were afraid?"

“And holding your hand then holding my hand up, how many people were afraid?”

And Drew can't stop going, "Term on my own!" Just lean, and make sure Drew roaming around my home just randomly away. Just yelling, "Term on my own!" Also, we're thinking about possibly recording our bonus episodes on video in the future. Just so you know, like, I was just thinking about it because that movement

would have been really good in the hand. So just know that that's something we're thinking about. I think you guys don't think that these are usually pretty fun, and, you know, we get lively with these. It just means we have to get dressed more.

Which I did today, so I should have filmed, but you're so swollen. That's fine, yeah. You're beautiful, still. Well, thank you, I'm beautiful, it's true, it's true, you're beautiful. So, I watched this in one fell swoop.

Me too, but I did later at night, obviously, when the kids went to sleep. And John was with me and my mother, and I was with-- Oh, my God, Karen, watch this. They were both horrified to the point where I was supposed to bear it. Oh, no!

Oh, no! Right? My key of grace. Like, yeah, the same experience with Dave, didn't you? Were you supposed to bear us that you watched this?

When Dave and I first started dating, he was like,

"Oh, I'm going to show you all my favorite shows." He's like, "What's your favorite show?" And I was like, "Oh, I love to, like, I love this show." And I also love America's next top model. And it was like, "Are you listening to us?"

Well, like, because we were talking about, like, reality, television shows, because he loves, he is a top chef, guys. Oh, I love top chef too. But, like, America's next top model was, like, my jam. He was like, "Okay, let's watch it."

And we started watching it, and he was, like, literally, like, maybe you're not the gentle little lamb that I thought of. Like, the actual show, top model? Yes, Dad. He was like, "That'll fry." - The really thoroughly horrified.

I was watching this as, like, a, I actually remember when I lived at Mon Papa's house back when, like, when I was little little me and my mom did, we would all watch it in the living room.

- Remember? - Or just wild.

Like, as I was falling asleep, so I watched this when I was like, five, I think, or maybe, like, a little bit older, but so, oh, not okay. - Then I could get started getting, like, syndicated to, like, it was either MTV or V2, and I really watched it a ton.

In, like, middle school, which is the worst time to watch it. - Anybody my age who was watching this back then?

“Like, yeah, that's why we're all fucked up”

in a body image issues and all this shit. - Oh, yeah. - It's horrible. - Because also, the women that they were referring to as plus size, I'm sorry, can we just start off right there?

- Yeah, we sure can. - The women, I am a plus size woman. The women that they were calling plus size were literally size six women. - Yeah. - Size six is not plus size.

- No, that is ridiculous. - Well, not only that, they would refer to them as plus size and make it, like, you're, like, you're, it's, we're gonna be hard for you to find work. And then the girls who were not even considered plus size,

but like that they were sitting there being like, oh my god, she's getting fat. - Yeah. - She's huge. We're literally like size two, yeah.

- Yeah. - Very, like, normal. - In the cool-looking girl. - Beautiful bodies. Like, I just, and to have a bunch, it was like, one thing to have a bunch of other women

critique your body, which is already bad enough, but then to have a bunch of men also sit there in front of you on a panel and be like, yeah, she's getting fat. It's like, yeah.

- Fuck. - All y'all. - It was so cool for nothing, like, obviously, all of these girls were like 18 plus, but like, 18 nine-year-olds getting fucking criticized

by 40-year-old men. - Weird. - Very weird. - Weird. - Upset it. - Very weird, and Ken mock in that documentary.

- Okay, yeah, let's start off there. - Hold on, I have a quote from him. - Come, Zoff, in my opinion, John. - Like, there's a horrible one. - John was like, that man is the villain of the century,

and he should be like, I don't even know. - Where's he going? - He should be like, run out of the, out of town. - Here's the quote to confirm that for you.

“The biggest disaster ever is always the best thing.”

People have 104 degree temperature. They're throwing up. They need IVs. That's the best news I could ever have. And I believe that he, that's a,

he stood 10 toes down on that. - That's verbatim. - Yes, sir. - Yes, sir. - Oh yeah, when they talk about, we'll get into the shandy of it all.

- Oh, dude. - The way he handled that, the way that everybody handled that was fucked. Like, it's that poor woman.

that the jays and Nigel are not as bad.

“And like, here's the thing I will give them,”

is that they're at least sitting there and being like, yeah, I should have done something and I didn't. I think J-Man, you all at one point said like, I wish I had a backbone, yeah. And I'm like, I do too, sir, yeah.

Because they're all fucking complicit. You were all there. And it's like, I don't understand personally and this is like my own probably character flaw that has served me well in some circumstances,

but probably not in others. Like the last place we worked. It did not serve me well. - No. - Is I don't understand hierarchy systems and I don't understand when somebody tells me like,

this person is just this way and they're above you, so you can't, I'm like, no, no one is. - Like I don't believe anyone is. - It was so funny just that in our personal lives to see how that played out because I'm so used to that

because I worked in the hair industry. And when you first get into the hair industry if you want to work anywhere, that's like, you know, top tier, quote, I'm quote, you're an apprentice and more of a fucking peon.

And you do what you need to do that has absolutely nothing to do with doing hair. - Yep. - To get to the top. - Yeah. - So it was so similar, like I've actually been in that power dynamic before.

- And I just did not, and I think it's like my brain the way it works, I just, I logically don't understand hierarchy systems. - I think it's your, you're like justice complex. - Yeah, I think it just does not.

It never made sense to me.

- Yeah. - And I think here, there's sometimes where you would see like, tie where the judges refer to a girl and be like, you have authority problems or problems with authority. I'm like, no, I think they just don't understand

the stupid fucking made up hierarchy that you have. - That means nothing. - Like you're not above anybody. - Well, in Tyra would sit there and be like, you're a model.

This is a design. - This is a design. - And this is a book. - Exactly. Tyra, that's the premise of this whole fucking show. - Exactly. - I also have to say, I'm actually shocked

that Tyra agreed to do this documentary. - I'm very shocked by that. - It was very similar in my opinion to the, the mom that agreed to do the documentary, who was a cat fishing her child.

- Yes. - That's like, why? - Why did you say yes to this?

“- That's what, you know, that's what my mother”

and Lockhap asking.

She was like, why did she agree to do this?

Because she doesn't come off. - No, the documentary. - Oh, she comes off. - And she comes off like, very unapolognized. - That's kind of about the shandy situation.

Again, we're gonna go into it. And she literally goes, I wasn't there. - I remember, but like, and she's like, I wasn't there. - It wasn't there.

- And you're like, wow, you don't give a shit at all. I think she'll be really start with the shandy situation. - Yeah, let's say that was the biggest shock for me. - That broke my heart because I remember, and I'm sure you didn't do it, everybody does.

- Everybody does. - Watching that and sitting there going, "Oh my God, I can't put you shit in my boyfriend." - Yeah. - Yeah. - Like, fuck shit. - I loved shandy. - I loved shandy.

- Me too. - I thought she was awesome. And I even in that moment, like, when I still thought that she'd come over and I was like, - Yeah, yeah, you know, like things happened. - She didn't cheat.

- She was sexually assaulted. - Yeah. - Like, they had, they filmed to the entire thing. - Yeah. - They, what we saw was such an edited down version.

- Yeah. - You know, everything that occurred. I actually have a quote from Shandy. I didn't even feel sex happening. I just knew it was happening, and then I passed out. And then they made it into a cheating scandal.

- Complete with Tyra meeting with her the next day. - And talking about the ending. - Yeah. - That she didn't know what happened. - Oh, have you ever cheated? - You know, I got cheated on both like acting like friends

and just being like, you know. - I just casually bring up cheating for no reason. - And telling her, like, we can't give in to like our carnal desires, you know. Like acting like it was a choice.

- Yeah. - And then filming her talking to her boyfriend, Eric, who, like, obviously was upset at the time

“and didn't know that that's what happened.”

- Yeah. - But then he, like, filming her being called a stupid bitch. - Yep. - By this guy that she'd been talking talking about the whole time she's been on the show and being screamed at and demeaned.

- And then not only that the aftermath, she said she, they tried to work it out. I'm sure she probably went home and explained him the actual reality of the situation. And they would be out in public and people would walk

by her and look taller like a slut and stuff. Like she got crazy, she'll still get it together. - Yeah. - Well, Jesus Christ. But then she went on the Tyra bank show after that. And she told her, I haven't watched it.

I can't watch the scene. - I don't want to. - And you can tell she's sitting there being like, I can't watch it because it's traumatized. - Tyra made her fucking watch it. And then was like, what do you think about that?

Like, let's talk about it. I was like, you're a child, Balagl. - No. - Because someone who's been treated shitty in the industry and like, it says that. - And really? - And that's your whole reason

why you created the show. - You're treating them the exact same way if not worse. - Yeah. - And not leads us to all the crazy photo shoots. - Oh my god. - That went down.

- The fucking photo shoots. The race swapping ones straight up black face. And they sat there and they were like, yeah, like,

I did not want to do that.

- But you did. - Exactly. - Not only something men. - They then continued to do similar photo shoots in like the cycles afterwards. - They did somewhere they had women in like Native American

headdresses. - Yes. - They had at least two full on black face swaps, like race swaps. - Like race swaps. - Like photo shoots where they just like went right for it. - Yep, those were bad.

And then there was also the crime scene shoots that they did. - Oh yeah, where they were murder victims. - Yep. - And it was like, this is when they had jail,

which like, rest in peace jail. - I know. - jail, I thought was so fucking cool. - I thought you were so cool. - I thought you were so cool.

- Yep, all of the others. - It's such a bummer.

But she had a friend who died while she was there.

She got the news while she was there. And her friend had like OD, I think. - And then she is in that photo shoot with murder victims or like crime scene victims.

“- No, and she had to do, I think that was actually”

the one where they made her an addict, wasn't it? - No, this is the one where they made her like, she had died by strangulation. - Oh, is that what it was? - But she still had to do like a death scene shoot.

And then that's the same shoot that Dion, which once again, I fucking loved Dion, when they girls that they like particularly hate it on, we were like, I fucking love them. Dion, when they made the makeup new names for themselves,

and she calls herself, "Who the hay?" - I love her. - I love her. I love Dion until the end of time. - For having to be on her way through. - Dion, for life. - For life for life. (laughs)

Look, I don't even remember that. - I didn't come up with like model names. - I didn't see them up with all my, what world? - Oh, I love her. - I love her. - I love her. - I love her.

- Absolutely iconic. - Her mom, when she was younger, die or didn't experience it. - She was paralyzed, putting a wheelchair, because somebody shot her. - And then they made her be shooting victim, and then criticized her about not being dead enough,

and it was she's like, yes, I was just kind of going through it. Then on top of that Kaylin, from another cycle, her friend, she got similarly to J.L. and knew that her friend died, and they had her pose in a great--

- In a grave, and it was like eight feet deep. - Yeah, like, truly what they also had, they did a shoot with unhoused, and it made them dress up as unhoused people, and they had to do it with actual unhoused people

in the background. - Yeah, yep, yep. - They also did one model stereotypes,

“where I remember Meg, which also I loved Meg, Meg was like,”

"The Rag and Roll!" - Yes! - I loved her, yes. That's so awesome. - Yeah. - She had to be a drug addict, and her photo was her, with her like an needle

and a lot of her arm, and her like strong out. Like they had another one, I can't remember, there was a set of twins, I think. - Believe me, I was one of them. - Believe me, yeah.

- Yeah, one of them had to pose literally, like Kaylin. - Fall over, facing in a stall in the bathroom, it was fucking crazy. - Crazy! - Just like, oh, watchin' this at the time,

just being like, "Whoa, this is nuts." 'Cause also none of those photo shoots, were you, like, their portfolios were not usable, 'cause that's not what it was. - That's not what it was. - 'Cause they were so insane, like, everybody was like,

and I think, like, the makeup really wasn't good, the editing on the photos weren't good. - No. - I think dick pics, the bad photos. - They picked bad photos on her face.

Like, you were saying, I think it's during Jade, yeah, discovered supermodel, they play her commercial. I think it was like, like, a meat-cover girl, a comfortable commercial, and she's like, "That's my worst take."

- Yeah. - And Tyra gets pissed, and she's like, "How many of you felt that it was your worst take "in literally everybody's talking to someone "with their hands?"

- And it's like, they did not purpose.

“- Not go to show you that that's what was happening there.”

(upbeat music)

- I always thought that too.

I'd be like, I remember seeing better photos while watching the show while they're taking the photos. - Yeah. - And then you get the photo at the end, and you're like, it's like a blue bear.

- You're like, why is she sneezing? - But I feel like, one at, like, speaking of Jade, the undiscovered supermodel, personally. I fucking love Jade. - Jade was wild.

- Jade, if you're out there, I love you. - Jade, I hope you're discovered, though. - I think Jade was a badass. I think she was, of course, she had her moments, I forgot you said.

- She was young, Jade was so mean to Jade. - She was really mean to Jade. - But I think, also, they were like, definitely set against Jade. - They were set against Jade.

- Yeah, that was not her best. Those were the moments I was not, Team Jade. - No, but Team Jade for her confidence. - Yes. - And Team Jade for, like, she was pretty fucking funny.

- Well, maybe she's talking about being in, like, I think they were kind of like, "Tut, tuts, the car, do you remember?" - No. - It's when she's sitting there and she's like,

I don't, like, she, she didn't want to be in this, like, open car, 'cause they were in, like, Thailand.

- And the way she says it, she's like, in the, in the, in the two, two, "tut, tut, tut, tut." And then she's like, "Hupedy." (laughing) - She was like, "Why is she like that?"

- I don't know. - For some reason, that one shot of her, and they gave her the villain at it because she was confident. - Yeah, no, they absolutely did.

And they always just were like,

" Jade, you look like you're 40. " Jade, you look so old." I mean, well, Jade had, like, gorgeous skin. - Yeah, she was gorgeous. - Yeah, she was gorgeous.

- Yeah. - Yeah, gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous. - Jade was one of the ones that got that at it, Camille.

“I think, watch the Camille season again.”

Camille gets fucking railroaded. Camille was just confident. She was pretty fucking quiet into herself. And everyone was just fucking mean as hell to her. The same thing with Ebony.

- Ebony, that drove me, they called her Ashie. - They called her Tyra. - Tyra called her, a fellow black woman. And she had some of the most beautiful skin and gorgeous skin, she's a beautiful woman.

- They also during the makeover, which the makeovers were literally personally victimized these women. - They ripped her hair out of her head and were just literally sitting there

talking about how awful her hair texture was. How none of them knew how to do it. - And she was sitting there. - While they're talking over her head, like fucking up her hair.

- And she still looked gorgeous. - Yeah, I was gonna say, she still looked great, but they ripped her fucking hair out of her hair. - But the other one was Jasmine.

When she came the first time,

she had this big personality and they shit all over her for it. And then she comes back and kind of tones it down and they're like, where's your crazy personality? And she's like, what do you want? Like, what the fuck?

- There was another girl I can't remember her name, but she went super, I think it was Jenna. I remember Jenna, she had like great pictures. - Oh yeah, she went really far and was very talented and they were just like, yeah, you're boring.

So they eliminated her. - Molly Sue was the same. - Yeah. - Molly Sue, I thought was such a good, and they were like, we don't know,

we don't get it, we don't get what you are. - And was it Yaya? Was another one? Yaya? - Yaya.

- She made a career fun. - Yeah, she's all funny. - Good for Yaya. - And they were so fun. They were also wildly racist stir.

- Oh yeah. - They had a designer come in and was like, you're just like yelling at your Africanness too much. And it was this white designer, like our stylist who was like, yeah,

like nobody wants to just like be hit over the head with that. - Oh my God. - And then when she would get like upset and defensive about that because like that's fucked up

because they would be like, yeah, she would experience racism. - Well then she would just get the angry black woman. - Yep. - Where they were just like, you're being kind of defensive. And it's like, nope, she's just being a human being.

- Things like Tyra, you're not like, what the fuck are you doing? Like why are you, she, Tyra herself says that's part

of the reason she sat out to do this show in the first place.

And like she wanted to expose this part of the fashion industry but change it. - I was like, you just closed yourself. - Because similarly, Michael Seven, J.D. Young, she had to film with a racist film.

- Oh my God. - This drove me crazy. - He literally, they're all sitting at dinner because like some member they would like go out with the male models, like before they're after the shoot.

This one was before. And he literally looks at her and says like, basically I don't like black woman. - He literally said that. - And she's like, oh, that's insane that we have to,

I think they literally had to kiss on the next day. - And then she got eliminated for that commercial, that's a show like that. - You didn't kiss him good enough. Which was like, yeah, she was uncomfortable

because he was a racist fuck. And she told you guys, and everybody was like, - Yeah. - The way they would react to that stuff, they were like, yeah, I don't know,

“that's just like stupid and you have to get through it.”

And it's like, you don't, oh my God. So Kenya, I loved Kenya too. - I think Kenya is, I thought she was a stunner of hell. I think she's a stunner now. - Yep.

- I thought she was a plus. I thought she could have won that. But I also loved Naina. But I loved Naina, she was a gorgeous. - But Kenya was told constantly that she was fat,

which was absolutely insane. - Janice, the amount of times that she was like, she's too fat, she's too fat. She's too fat, I'm like, she's beautiful. - She said she should be, what was the car thing that she said?

- Is it, did she say it about her? - I think it was about Kenya that she said that. - I don't remember what it was, it was horrible. - Janice had a lot of awful things to women. - But they had, so they would call her out for this.

And then they had her during the seven deadly sins be gluttony, and make her lay in a coffin with garbage food all over her, in like a ridiculous get-up, yeah, ridiculous. And hold on to us, in her hand.

And so she looks can't be. Like she did what she could with the styling she was given. And I thought she did a great job. - Yeah. - And they were like, they were shitting all over the,

basically saying she looks like a drag queen. And it was like, okay, shut up. - But one of the sudden, like one of the sudden, it's all in two, you styled her that way. - 'Cause she didn't get dressed, like you put her in that.

And then she's like holding the donut and Tyro was like, after they've told her, she's fat and disgusting. - Yep.

“- And like literally, like you need to watch your weight”

while you're here, like be careful. - Yeah.

I would like to see the donut hanging out of your mouth.

“- Why, so you could have shed on her about that?”

- Like, that's exactly what I was talking about. - And then they go to Africa. And everybody else is a, you know, a gazelle, a fucking giraffe, like these gorgeous beautiful, and a little creature, an ostrich.

- Yeah. - They make her a fucking elephant. And don't you dare tell me that that was like, whoops, that just happened. - Oh my god, that's crazy.

- Oh my god, that's crazy. - And then they shed all over her telling her, they had to retouch her so much and bow a lot. And it's like, what are you getting out of this? - They also would like zoom in on her stomach.

And like when she was like, in a weird position, so it would make her still look like a normal fucking person, but it wasn't like the greatest angle. And she's like, they would zoom in. They edited her, edited her eating a bagel.

So it looked like she ate three bagels. And she's like, that was the same bagel. - That was just what we did. - They just made it seem like I was just pounding bagels to the face.

- Yeah, like what's the point down?

- Even if she was, who cares,

but why are you doing that? - On the subject of Kenya in Africa, they did the shoot where they were dancing with like three guys. And this one model, Bertini, was already fucking all over

her shit and making her uncomfortable. And they're doing this dancing thing and he's touching her and like grinding her. - He's like grunting and shitting her face. Like shooting her hair.

- So she did what any woman should be able to do and said, pause, hey, I'm a little uncomfortable right now. He's kind of like groaning up on me. I'm very uncomfortable. First of all, they were all aggravated by her stopping. Like Jay can pretend that he wishes he had done something.

I'm sure he does. But he needs to own the fact that at the moment, he seemed annoyed that she had stopped in everybody else did too. - Yep.

- And they basically were like, yeah, okay. At one point Jay had to say like, don't grab her, maybe stop grabbing her ass. - Maybe. - Like he was, and it's like, what, you see that's a problem.

- He came off set. - If the male model is grabbing me ass. - And she says she's uncomfortable. - Bye. - And I will say, Jay said in an interview,

he wish she had a backbone during that and he wish she had said stop and take in him offset. - Yeah. - It's like that's nice that you recognize that now, but like that already happened.

- Where were you in the moment when she was dealing with it? - And she literally came yes out there and said, during the shoot, she was nervous about stopping the shoot

'cause like, as women, you never want to bother anybody

or say something's happening. - And she said to herself, what would Tyra do? - Yeah. - With this is how Tyra looks like. I would like, and they should all over for her.

- And Tyra herself was like, now, in judging, they literally were like, so she was like, hey, so this was happening. First of all, they picked a photo where he was touching her. Literally touching her ass.

- Yeah. - Literally grabbing her leg. - Yep. - And she's like, that wasn't a coincidence. - Yep.

- And they basically tell her, like,

“now just like, well, you need to be in control of that situation.”

- It's like, but sometimes I'm not. - And also, I'm sorry, man. You can't tell a woman I need to be in control there when I'm trying to take control. - That's what she tried to take control.

- And no one's doing anything. And he's sitting there being like, this camera's all around. This people's all around. - Yeah, no one protected her.

- That's the problem. - That's the problem. - You're all sitting there saying, oh, well, there's so many people around. Why was she feeling comfortable?

Because a whole sea of people were doing nothing to protect her. That's why she felt uncomfortable. And then Tyra sits there and says, well, you can do it and say, boy, you better like, backup off me,

but she's like, but do it in a fun way. - Yeah. - Where doesn't put static in there? - Stop sexual harassment in a fun way. - Well, we don't want to make the sexual harassment.

- She could have like, we don't want to do that. We don't want to make the man who's touching you without your permission to be uncomfortable in the situation. - Yes, we do.

- Like Tyra's wife. - Tyra's wife said, and there's so many times during this, where it was like, you are pionced and you shouldn't endure this behavior. - 'Cause this is, and also it's like,

this is the laundry. - This is the laundry. It's been up for this, and this is the one you're treating the fuck that. - And you're sitting here's like, again,

saying you want to expose the industry? - Yeah. - You're being the industry right now. - Exactly. - So, and also the amount of dangerous runways

they put these one, runways and photoshoot. - Yes. - The runways, though. - Like the pendulum one, the pendulum one could have killed one.

- That's insane. - There was also one where they had to walk on like docks on the water. - Yep. - The runway was on the water and one of them

had her hands, like there was like no way for them to be apart. - I don't think I like the water. - She couldn't have pulled the water. - There was like a straight jacket

almost in front of her, so she fell. - She's drowning, y'all. - Like what the fuck? - My key pointed out, my favorite photo shoot I do after say, but the one where it was at Melrose in,

oh, yes, Carriedee, Carriedee. And they're all the lights go off and they're like running because of the fashion shows. - Yeah, I loved that. - Which also, Melrose.

- Melrose. She got a bad rap. - Melrose is another one. - Yeah. - And I think Melrose should have won.

- I asked if he quit. - I liked Carriedee. I really did.

“But I think Melrose was, I think she was robbed.”

And I think she was given such a villain edit that whole season. I remember, and you were, and I were talking about it.

I was like, "We didn't like her."

- We didn't like her. - And now I watch it and I'm like, "What the hell was I thinking?" - It goes from Melrose as such a bitch to Melrose is that bitch.

She is that bitch. Because then we go for like, that same season, Carriedee. Like when they did that photo shoot in the pool and she got legitimate hypothermia. The fact that a woman literally got hypothermia.

- And they were like annoyed.

“- The whole, I think the whole premise of that photo.”

She was like, "We're gonna subject you to extreme temperatures "because that's being a model." - Yeah. - And it was freezing cold pool. And then they blamed her at judging.

Which she was like, "Yeah, I got hypothermia." Is it that crazy? They were like, "You really need to know your limits." - Yeah. - And she was like, "But I thought you would get mad at me

"if I stopped." And I think she did try to stop. Or like, like, pause at least. - Yeah. - So they were like, "Okay, you're mean." And they're like, "I know your limits."

Like, she's like, "I tried to tell you my limits "if you were mad. "I'm gonna get excuse me." And the same thing with Carriedee,

that always annoyed me was,

but it was during the thing where they had to pretend to be like mad at yours. - Oh my God. When she told Nigel to take the stuff out of his ass, that's one of my stupid scenes.

- All she said during that was, "Oh, did you take that out of your ass "since last panel?" That was hilarious. - That was hilarious.

- Get over yourself. That's a funny joke. They lit her up. - Yeah. - She almost got eliminated over it.

- Oh yeah. And like, they lit her up over it.

“That was like, I thought that we could take a joke.”

I thought that was a funny joke. - I thought that was hilarious. - It's because of the man. - That was true. He was not happy.

- Fun fact, I once saw Nigel at the airport. - Oh yeah. - I didn't say hi to him because I forgot about it.

- I feel like he, I don't know Nigel,

but I didn't feel like I wanted to be like, "Oh my God, I feel like I don't know." You don't say anything to me. - Yeah, but I saw him in a restaurant. - Yeah, I thought that joke was supposed

to be lighthearted and funny. - It was. Like, I will say maybe Nigel handled it. Even I'll say a little better than they did at panel. - I don't even remember.

- I think he just kind of took our side was like, you don't really know me. - Yeah. - Like, don't make that joke. But then at panel, they like really shot all out.

Because then they turned it into, he turned it into like, "Hey, you just don't know me." So like, making that joke is weird to make when you don't know me. - Yeah, which is fair.

- Which I can get on board for that panel. They were like, he's a photographer and you're a little bitch. And you're not allowed to do that. - And it's like, can we not turn it into that

and just make it like, "Hey, you don't know me." So don't make that joke. - Everything became a higher arc either. - Yeah. - It was, I mean, remember, Brooke, who was like,

just, she was literally, and they sent her home the day she was graduating high school? - That was, this, okay, not only that, by the way. They didn't send these girls home. - No, I remember, and obviously all of us

watching were like, oh my God, like now they're on a plane and going home, and that's so sad, nope. They got sequestered, so they literally just moved out of the model house and into hotel rooms. So they had to film packing their bags.

And then they just had to sit in hotel rooms for the rest of the season, so that they didn't tell anybody else what it had to happen. - I couldn't go home. - I couldn't call anybody or anything like that.

- That's fun. - So like, your dreams as like an 18 to like early 20s, something girl just got absolutely crushed. And now you're just sitting alone in a hotel room. - Yeah.

- After they've probably promoted that,

“like you should have an eating disorder.”

- Yeah. - Like that's good. - That's great. - That's awesome. - That's very cool.

- Was there any mental health people? - No, no, of course not, no. And it's like they feel like they would do that shit on purpose. Like Brooke getting sent home on the day she was graduating high school.

- Absolutely, that's not a fucking cool. - And then I think time was like, you graduated. You just didn't walk. I'm like, you're an asshole. - Yeah, no.

- And also for, I think she was eliminated for a photo shoot that they had to do with Fabio. And I was like, she's like a baby. - Yeah. - And this is like a romance shoot with Fabio.

- Fabio? - Yeah. - And we really, that's when we're sending her home. She couldn't get that into it with Fabio. And she's a literal child.

- Well, not like who we can. - Can we take it down and out? - She has another other thing too. They would be like, if you were like two into it, they were like, well, this reads porn out.

- Oh yeah. - And if you weren't into it, they were like, well, this looks like shit. - Yep. And it was very hard to find the middle ground

of where you were supposed to be like, sexy enough, but like, not two sexier, not too little. - Some girls, they would literally be like, she has zero sex appeal, which I was like, y'all. - Y'all won.

(upbeat music) - And then it's weird to be talking about like, freshly out of high school young girls in those terms. - Absolutely.

- Like, there was one, the season with like, Marjorie and Samantha. She's like tall blonde, just down high school, literally once, early up at the beginning. - They did a Jeremy Scott runway show.

- Jeremy. - And they were blind folded.

He, the way he talked to this girl, I was like, shame, because they, I, seeing a panel of adults sit there and allow these women to, these young women, girls, to be talked to and humiliated. Like this, they should be fucking ashamed of themselves.

And again, I don't get the hierarchy here at all. - No. - Because she was, they did the runway show. Apparently, everything was fine. She gets in their blindfolded in the runway,

because of course, that's real. - Obviously. - Obviously. And she gets to the end and she puts her hands on her hips. And she kinda like moves her hips back and forth

and it was a short dress. So it's slightly road up, not even like crazy. - But mind you, he said, show me your personality. - For me personality. - At the panel, he sits there and says,

this girl is fresh out of high school. Months out of high school. He berates her, tells her it's not her show. She's not a rock star. And then he goes, I don't know,

did you see a pole at the end of the runway?

“- Oh, I'm sorry, are you saying that to a freshly 18 year old?”

You fucking piece of shit? - Yeah, that's just funny. - Like, that's the weirdest shit to say to someone,

first of all, to say that to anyone, fuck you.

- Yep. - Fuck you. - And then too, to say that to a young girl, check yourself. - Check yourself.

- And you were saying it in several times. - He did. - He said that she was a combination of a truck driver and a stripper. - She's this crazy.

- You were saying it too. She had met him before and she really admired him. Like she liked his son. - He said they had a great conversation. - And they had a great combo.

And then she thought it was a puzzle. - And just fucking humiliated. - Yeah, yeah. - So her national television? - Yep.

- Well, it's wild. Speaking of humiliating people on national television, we would be absolutely remiss to not mention the Tiffany of an Albany, which by the way, and they touched on it in the documentary series.

So much of that flip out that Tire had was editing it down. - Yeah. - And they literally said that.

“- I think it was Mr. J said that lawyers were on the next day.”

And there's been a couple of models that have come out since the documentary aired and said like, you would not believe some of the things that were said. - I don't know if they had to sign like NDAs or something.

- It's like series. - And here's the problem. Tiffany, so she got eliminated. She walked over to the girls. She was kind of joking with them and being like,

it's okay, it's okay. She was there teaching these girls. One of the things they're trying to teach them is to take rejection because they're gonna face it a lot. So she's handling their rejection.

She's saying, you know what? It's okay, it's fine, like just be in chill. Not really that. Also, by the way, Tiffany had literally completed anger management courses because she was struggling

with her anger and she came back for a second time

and killed it and killed it, got eliminated and handled it really well. - Yeah, that should have been like actually, she should have pulled to be honest, should have pulled her back up there and like Tiffany, I'm really fucking...

“- I mean, I don't know if or how you handled it.”

- Right, like you've come so far. - And this shows me that you're gonna go far because you have taken what you have learned and objectified it here, like good on you. - But that's what it should have been.

- Instead, Tara's pissed that she didn't break into a thousand pieces in front of her and so she decided, well, I'm gonna make her break into a thousand pieces in front of her and she fucking rails into her.

I mean, whatever it is, I feel that a girl like this where that we were rooting for you, we were all rooting for you. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, it comes from humiliation. - She also sits there and humiliates her family. She's like, your grandmother got her lights turned off

for this, for you to be in this competition. - Yeah, like, and you don't take it to a place. You don't take it to that level, no matter what. And you don't, in the middle of that, take it to a place of talking about her family situation.

- No, that's none of your fucking business. - Is she handled the rejection humbly? - She did, I like, I loved Tiffany. I thought she was hilarious, I really liked her. And I just, I could not, that stressed me out

when I watched it when it was on, and it stresses me out now when I watch it. I can't, that's so humiliating and demeaning. And then for Tara to just kind of be like, like, she really, she sat there and her,

everyone was saying her inspector gadget fucking trench coat. - That was what she gave up, nothing. She gave up, she really did. - At one point, she says, you know what?

You're all gonna have to face some shit sometime. And I hope you do it with racism. - It's time for me being like, I didn't come up with a show about young models. - I did not come up with them too crazy.

- Yeah, yeah. - Hair makeovers and cold pools and chill. I'm not gonna get called out for that. - I wasn't sitting there calling all these girls fat. - No, like, while saying that you wanted to change the industry.

- And sitting there saying, and like, I hope you all have to answer Tara, you didn't answer for anything. - You answered for nothing.

- You basically felt like fuck.

- Well, it was out of the time.

- Yeah, it wasn't me, I don't know.

- It was just real shitty. - Or was it the, was it the Tiffany thing? - No, it was the Shandy thing that she said she didn't want to talk about. - Or was it Tiffany?

- She literally goes, she was like,

“"Yeah, I kind of remember what happened."”

- Yeah. - With Shandy. - Like, and then. - It was the J thing, she didn't want to talk about it. - The J thing, she had a lot of stuff. The thing that I just thought was the absolute funniest thing

throughout the entire documentary. Was at the end when Tara was like, and like, when you got called out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. - And then the screen was like, "Ah!" And then you know, it was like, that's a bunch of bullshit.

- I love, I love Daniel. - I love Daniel. - Daniel, for life. - I love Daniel. - I love her. - I thought she was a queen, then. - I thought she was a queen now. - She is stunning. - Y'all, stunning. - I was so happy when they,

I was so pissed off that they were trying to get her to close her gap.

- Oh my God. - And she stood there and she stood her

ground, she was like, "No, I love my gap, my gap makes me mean." - You were so mad. - She was seeing this woman sit there confidently saying, "This is my gap, this is me, this is me, this is me, I am. This is, I'm going to get there with this."

- Pist her off so much, you could see it. - Yeah, well, she just wouldn't, it was, she was relentless. - She would be like, you really think, and at one point, remember, she stuck her finger in between her teeth. She goes, "Easy, very beautiful, covering girl."

- Yeah. - You really think you're going to be like that. And I was like, "Fuck you, let me in while." - Does anybody get the London look? - Yeah. - Oh, with the giant gap, gorgeous girl.

And then, I don't even know if it was like the next season or if it was a couple later. - They opened a girl. - They gave a girl a few jobs, which shows you exactly what it was all of the time. - And then while we're talking about dental procedures,

Joni, Joni's dental procedure. She literally has dental issues with her bite and like, God only knows what else to this day. - However many years later, they fucked her mouth. - They forced the nears on to her teeth.

“- Which are so like that, you have to continuously get that fix.”

- Do you remember her when they had already shaved her teeth down in the, like, they had to sit her home for a week? - And she's like, "Nisha, she's like, "Look, I was like, "he was like, "God, you're all." And just having her endure that.

- And then just pose for a photo shoot the next day. - They also, and back to Danielle, really quick, what really pissed me off? - Oh, I know exactly where you're going. - How Tyra harped on her fucking accent

and was so mean about it, like so offensive. - Super offensive. - And she would like mock her and be like, "Do you really think you're gonna get a contract like this?" And I was like, "Whoa."

Like, I was like, "That's where she comes from." Like, fuck you, I love her accent. - Yeah, I love Danielle. I love her the whole way through. - And when she got, she had to go to the hospital in Thailand.

She had to go to the hospital in Thailand because she had food poisoning, dehydration, and exhaustion. - And now I just said, "You're kind of high maintenance, aren't you?" - Uh, no, I was so sick, bro. - And also, if you remember,

she left the hospital early, like a pretty sure, it gets medical. - Yes, she did. - She didn't want to get eliminated. - Yeah.

- Oh, like, huh? - I was just like, "God, then."

“- The thing that actually, I think the biggest thing for me,”

I think this really was the biggest was Danielle. Like, she won, right? She was one of the winners. - Yeah, and then she went on and she lived in this model house. - Oh, yeah.

- And she sitting there month after month day, after day, not really getting any jobs, and all these other girls are getting jobs. And finally, one of the girls that she was close with was like, told her, like, I talked to an agent,

and I asked why doesn't Danielle ever get booked on jobs. And it's like, because her portfolio doesn't work under these things work. And like, we have to treat them differently, 'cause they were on reality today.

And Danielle said she later had a conversation with Tyra and Tyra admitted, I knew that there was gonna be certain doors that just wouldn't open for you guys because you were on reality TV, and I didn't do anything about it.

- It's like, why did you, why? - You continue just to do this. - Yeah. - For however many cycles, like, what is there, like, 24 cycles total?

- Yeah. - Like, what the fuck? You knew what you were doing.

This was never, the biggest takeaway from this documentary

is that this was never a show for young aspiring models. This was a show to humiliate women and just subject them to like, national society. - Yeah. - It really was, like, one more one that I was just thinking

about Tikara. - Yep. - I loved Tikara. - She was another word that they beat the personality out of.

- Yep. - She had this amazing personality. And then they just beat her down. She and then she had all over her about being beat down. - Yep.

- And I remember she was at a photo shoot and they didn't have any clothes for her. - And the stylist was like, you think I can get a rack to like this for you? - Yeah.

- And I was like, oh fuck you. Like I was like, I can't have, and then they put her in like this big orange fucking valet button up shirt and khakis. - And then she put a good didn't sell it.

- And yeah, and judged her based on that. And I was like, come on. - It's like nobody was gonna make that long. - And she still looked good. - And also, hey, dumbasses.

We all know you knew she was coming.

- You could have. - You could have. - That's on, that's on you guys. - Yeah. - That's not on Tikara. - But they put it all on her.

It's such bullshit. And then they shit all over her for getting beaten down. - Yep.

- It just, it always made me so mad.

- Yeah. - There was just that documentary was wild. - Oh and then recently, somebody, I don't know if it was somebody at UPN or if it was CW 'cause part of the documentary was like Tyros

and she had to fire the two G's and Nigel. It recently came out that she was allegedly never told that she wanted to fire them. - Yeah.

“- That's what one person who works there said.”

- You know what I'm interested in 'cause I think we need to do another part of this when the other documentary comes out. The other one's coming out next week, next month. I was in next month.

- Yeah, I think it's March, something, 16 years ago. - That's like really like a few weeks. - So I think we should also do another one. When that one comes out, 'cause I think that's gonna have more of the contestants on it.

I'm interested to see. - Apparently that one's also gonna have Janice. - Yeah. - That's gonna be a wild. - Which Janice was rocking horrible.

- She was really mean to those girls. - I think she was also really struggling with mental health and addiction benefits. Or maybe she is gonna look back and say that she regrets some of that.

- I hate her. - So it's no excuse to treat people like you. - Exactly. So I hope it's something she regrets for you too. - If you've got to have them watch the documentary,

I thought, I thought the parts were the contestants. We're speaking. - Yeah, I want to more of that. - We're really good. I think the tyro really just didn't give a lot.

- Tyro can not really. - I think she's just passing the book and making faces. - And then Jay and Nigel and Miss Jay, which also, I feel so bad about what happened to Miss Jay.

- I do too. - I'm not Miss Jay. - I really like to Miss Jay, I mean.

“- The other thing is, I think Miss Jay wasn't really there.”

Like, Miss Jay was like the walking coach. - And then was like also Miss Jay had some moments where they were not great. - Yeah. - So it's like, they were all part of this.

- Yeah. - There was no doubt about that. And it's like, but they all acknowledge at least the three of them are acknowledging that it was bad. - And we'll give them that, but I do think like,

you gotta take some responsibility. I take a little work on a part of it. - But that Miss Jay suffered a stroke. - Yeah. - And like, obviously like they all worked together

for years and years and years. - Yeah.

- And Tyro never went to visit Miss Jay.

- Yeah. - Which was wild. - Still hasn't called Miss Jay. - Yeah. - According to the doc, I'll ask up the doc.

- That was really sad. - Yeah, that was. - Because also like, Miss Jay literally taught Tyro how to walk. - Yeah.

- It was wild. I know, and that's, and the fact that Miss Jay is now having to relearn, how to walk, like, tell me, I thought I think she will. - Again, I absolutely think so.

- Yeah. - When Jay manual, Mr. Jay, when he wanted to leave 'cause he was being like, yeah, I'm good with this. - You could tell, too, and he says it, too, like, when you look at his face

when he's presenting certain photoshoot. - He could tell, it's like. - 'Cause he got it, like he,

“I think he was the creative director in the beginning,”

but then he wasn't the creative director after a while, like who knows, who was coming up with the shoots, he was just presenting them. - Yeah, and that was after he tried to leave. - Yeah.

- And I think he talked, or he sent this big long thought out thing, and she had responded just, I'm disappointed. - I am disappointed. - And then she, I stem out and would not speak to him.

- Yeah. - Like, and actually, which makes it a horrible working environment when somebody's at that time. - Yeah, it's a toxic work environment. - And then fire them, yes.

- And however many seasons after. But the other thing is, if you watch, and they show a little clips of it in the documentary, I think this season that he comes back after like,

he basically just wasn't allowed to leave.

- Yeah. - Is the crew ship one? And she's like joking with him on the panel, and you can see on his face that he's like, what the fuck is that?

- He's like, he's like, why are you saying? - 'Cause like clearly you're being like, just like completely ignore me off camera and then on camera, you're like, "Oh, well, that's friends."

- Yeah, it's a wild documentary. - It is, and it's just like this is all this stuff that has come out. - Yeah. - Imagine this stuff that just like hasn't hit the surface yet.

- And I think when we hear more from the contestants in this next documentary, that's coming out, I think we're gonna add even more. - Yeah, I think so too. - I'm interested to hear it.

And we can do another one of these to like kind of go over what happens in that one 'cause I'm sure there's gonna be new new ship that comes out. - Yeah, definitely. - But yeah, it's definitely, it's eye-opening.

- But it's worth the watch for sure. - Yeah, I would say so. - But it's really disturbing. - It is disturbing. Drew said he fell asleep on the last episode

and he said he had really weird dreams. - Yeah, that you John and I didn't like it. - John literally was like, he couldn't finish it. He was like disturbed by it. - Yeah.

- Like couldn't imagine. He was like, "This is awful." - It's probably weird for like men to see what women are subjected to in a pretty regular way. - Precisely.

- Probably weird for them to be like, "What the fuck?" - What? - You guys just have to deal with that? - Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, I think we pretty much had everything that we wanted to do. - Yeah, but like you said I'm excited to hit more when the camera comes out.

- But let us know what like your favorite moments

of the, or not favorite moments,

“but just like John dropping, shocking moments”

where in the comments. - Yeah. - 'Cause I know this probably stuff that we didn't even touch upon 'cause there's so much.

- Yeah, so let's chat. - Yeah.

- Well, it's really working through this.

- Let's work through this guys. Let's heal together. - Well, and he'll let's work together. - All right, guys.

“Thank you for tuning in to our little bonus episode.”

This is February, we'll be back next month with our March bonus. And that is going to have a special guest. We're gonna be reading post-mortem by Patricia Cornwell. So if you haven't read that, definitely read it.

- Yeah. - If you have read it, and it's been a while, brush up on it. - It's where we're gonna be talking about. - So good.

- Alina's read it like a million times.

- I have, I love it. I'm reading it for the first time right now, and it's really, really good. Trust me. - And we are going to have Chef Riley on the pond

for that. - Yeah. - I'm so excited. I followed Chef Riley forever. - And the best.

- It makes sense because he himself has a book coming out in March. It's called a little bit extra. So definitely go follow him on Instagram. - Yes.

- Chef Riley me in. - You won't be disappointed. - You will not be disappointed. - And our bonus episode is actually coming out March 31st, which is the day that Chef Riley's book drop.

So definitely go pre-order about. - Whoo! - And tuned into the episode. - Do it, and I think that's it. - It's gonna be fun.

- Okay, we love you guys so much. We hope you keep looking. - And we hope you keep it.

“- Weeere, but that's how we're going to start our begsby.”

- Yeah, sure. (laughing) (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music) (gentle piano music)

(gentle piano music)