From NFL Star to Trump’s Secretary of HUD

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Whether you need peace, encouragement, or a fresh start, Pray.com helps you make prayer part of your everyday life. Download the Pray.com app today. Homelessness in the U.S. has increased by nearly 30% since 2020, and the Trump administration is trying to do something about that. The man spearheading that effort also happens to be a former NFL star.

In this episode, our very own Cabot Phillips sits down with Scott Turner, the U.S. Secretary of Housing, and Urban Development. He breaks down economic opportunities zones, solutions to the homelessness crisis, and gives some insight into what it's like working alongside the president. I'm Georgia Howe, with daily wire executive editor John Bickley, and this is a weekend episode

of Morning Wire. All right, we are joined now. Very special guest. How a Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Scott Turner. Mr. Secretary of Things for being here. Great to be here. Thank you. We were just apologizing to you all fair that you had to hang out with Michael Nulls. So we'll try and make this slightly more enjoyable for our audience who here's HUD, and they have

a general idea of what your job entails, but maybe they don't know everything. Can you just

“explain for folks what your day-to-day looks like and what your broader goals are?”

For sure, HUD stands for Housing and Urban Development. It was started in 1968 under Lyndon B. Johnson, but HUD is more than just how's it. We also handled disaster, recovery, long term mitigation, working with FEMA and SBA. We also helped in homelessness that we have gone on in our country. We are very much involved in the funding from a continuum of care. Staying pointed so housing, homelessness, disaster. We have about 15 or 16 program offices,

almost 6,000 people at HUD, and 83 billion dollar budget. You know, to help some of the most

vulnerable people in our country, HUD is a very unique place that we have a unique mission. Right now, we're helping Americans about 1.5 million Americans last year to become homeowners through a FHA program, which is the first time home by our program. And about 80% of those with first-time home buyers. And so we're very proud of that, but one thing we're doing right now, Canada is we're tearing down regulation in our country. So the builders can build

and buyers can buy. And that's a top priority for us. And to transform and revitalize the homelessness crisis that we have gone on in our country to move away from housing first. And to move to a treatment first, not just to house people, but get them housing and treat it and transform to a life of self-sustainability. So those are some of our top goals. And for people getting to know you, you have a fascinating life story. So when you're a kid growing up in Texas, you're

track star, you go play football to Illinois, eight years in the league as a DB. I'm sure you had dreams of playing in the NFL. Did you ever have dreams of being a member of the cabinet? Your cabinet members? Did you ever think that would happen? No, that was not part of the dream

equation back then. But I always have had a heart to serve people. I did have a dream to play

in the NFL, and I'm grateful to the Lord, and I was able to do that for a long time. But I've had a heart to serve people, whether it be in sport, in business, in ministry, in being elected, and serving in the cabinet is a very, it's an honorable thing. It's very humbling that the president would appoint you to serve the country as part of his cabinet. And to some, I don't take for granted. I take it very seriously. We have a lot of fun with it to help people in America,

you know, to fulfill their God, given potential. Because I was able to, because people came

“alongside of me to help me. And so that's what myself and our team do on a daily basis.”

So when President Trump gives you the call and you get appointed, what was his main directive to you? Was there any, did he just give you the reins and say, go wherever you want, or were there main areas of focus that he wanted you on? Well, you know, in heel points, his cabinet, you know, the White House will have a legislative and a policy agenda for each cabinet agency. But this is our second time around. We also worked for Dr. Bing Carson, my predecessor, who was the cabinet secretary.

He was a 17th cabinet secretary. And during that time, I led the opportunity zone policy for our country. And so when we came back, many of us who with Dr. Carson came back this second term, which is a huge blessing for me. And we have a tremendous trust with the president. He understands her and he understands FHA. And I gave him my four or five top priorities. We got the legislative agenda, and we were often running. You talk about opportunities zones. I know you're in town with some

Tennessee lawmakers to help expand the opportunities zones here. Can you explain for folks what those

What do these opportunities zones look like? So in 2018, the tax cuts and jobs at which was a tax reform that the president signed into a lot of opportunities on policy was a part of that tax reform. And so what it says is that if you have a capital gain, so let's say you and

I, you and I have a company, right? And we sell our company and we get a $2 million capital gain.

“Well, normally you have to send money to Washington to the Treasury to Scott Bessett and pay”

taxes on that 2 million. We know Scott wants the money from money. Let's not give it to them or do it. And so these capital gains now, because of the opportunities on legislation, you can take that 2 million dollars and put it into a qualified opportunity fund that becomes a vehicle. And then that fund can invest in a qualified opportunity zone business, be it an operating business, be it housing, be it real estate. And if we leave it in there for 10 years, with that's the goal, leave that $2 million

dollars for 10 years, let's say a double in 10 years now is 4 million. What are extra 2 million dollars that you may you pay zero capital gains on that? And then you pay a decrease amount on your initial 2 million. And so that was the incentive to invest in some of our most distressed communities across America, urban, tribal, and rural. And so just to give the listeners some numbers,

the Treasury just came out with a report about $112 billion of private money capital gains

have been invested into most distressed communities around our country. 500,000 new jobs, 400,000 new housing units, and this is the stat that I love the most is 1 million people have been lifted out of poverty, off the poverty rolls inside of opportunity zones. And so I'm excited. I'm grateful for the first iteration, but I'm excited that the working family tax cut has made opportunity zones permanent. Yeah, I think a lot of Americans here that they said, yeah, it makes sense that the

private sector would have a better idea of what to do with that money. Indeed, Uncle Sam, one of the other areas that you're taking on is homelessness and trying to bring people out of that. And

“you've been vocal saying the best way to bring people out of homelessness is to treat the”

root cause. Right. And not necessarily take a housing first approach, but a treatment first approach. What's the difference between those two? Well, housing first has been around says 2013, you know, and they said to somebody, they say, hey, housing first is going to get rid of homelessness and our country, but it really has been a failure. It has not gotten rid of homelessness, a matter of fact, homelessness has gone up. You know, and our country there's been record

funding, but yet record homelessness almost 750,000 people on one single night this year, homeless on the streets of America. And so the housing first model is a failed model. And as you alluded to, treatment first is the model that we want to go to. That's to transformation. What does it mean? Housing first means that you this building a homeless industrial complex. You have people out of just warehouse that are homeless. They're still addicted to drugs, they're still mentally

ill. And a lot of times they're dying inside of empty apartments, vacant buildings, empty hotel rooms.

“And so we have to get rid of that playbook and have a new playbook called treatment first.”

And what this means is that not only do we house them, but we get to the root cause, mental illness, drug addiction, we get it treated. We get people transformed and then back to a life of self-sufficient. And one of those efforts looked like specifically, there are other specific cities that you're targeting. I know you've been in LA talking about some of the field policies there of just handing out baggies of drug paraphernalia to people and calling it

compassion. And what are some of the cities that you guys are working in? Well, you know, because we're heard and we are working across the nation. You know, homelessness is all across our nation in urban cities, rural, tribal. LA is the greatest example of, you know, LA really has been epicenter of homelessness. Los Angeles, California. But California has a state literally has led in homelessness for the last two decades. And so we're signed on the light on it because there's

being corruption. There's been fraud and waste and abuse of American taxpayer dollars. And that's going on around our country. I mean, so far, we've found about a hundred million dollars in fraud and waste and abuse just in the homelessness. And so we have to stop this. That's American taxpayer dollars and so it's a nationwide deal. LA is just a latest example. At some point, I just accepted that I was going to be tired all the time. Kids work life. You get your seven or eight hours and

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There were cuts to HUD as part of that. Critics have said, hey, those those cuts,

“they put the most vulnerable Americans at risk because we're taking money out of an important”

department. Do you think that the those cuts that we saw in 2025 hampered your ability to serve Americans? Not at all. And you know, that's kind of been a talk and point of the liberty is cut.

HUD has not cut. HUD gave opportunity to people in our personnel. We gave them two options.

Or two opportunities to take early retirement. And about 2,300 people took that option. Because what I said is I want people to be at HUD who want to be here to carry out this mission. And so we had about 2,300 people that took the DRP, which is early retirement. And so the team that we have now are people that want to be there, they understand our mission, they understand the constituency that we serve. And so we have a miss to be, you know,

we have 83 billion dollar budget. We don't have a money problem. It has been a stewardship problem. In the years ahead, in particular, in the Biden administration. You think about 83 billion dollars of American taxpayer money. That's real money. Now it's how do we use this money properly

“and put this money for the intended mission for the people that is intended to serve? And that's”

the focus you see now. What are some of the biggest differences for a lifelong HUD employee who's been there under numerous administrations? What is one of the biggest differences they would see from 2020 to 2024, verse now? Mission-minded focus. They lost their focus on the mission. And when I came and said, we're going to take inventory of every program that we have at HUD.

And here's what we're going to ask is the program helping us to achieve the mission that we've

been called to achieve? And if it's not, then we don't need that program. And if it is helping us to achieve the mission, how can we make it better? And so we just refocused on the mission. We refocused on, hey, political and career people. We are all here to move to one beat, one heartbeat, one sound, one mission. And if you have a question, ask it. Because it's not about us, it's about the people that we've been called to serve. So I would just say a mission-minded focus.

I've heard you use a few terms that kind of hint at your spiritual background. I'm talking about stewardship. And that's a term I often hear from my pastor. And you guys have done something really cool, which is not kicking out faith-based organizations that are trying to help serve the homeless and then help with housing. You guys have said, hey, we're not going to exclude you. We're going to try and bring you

into the fold. Talk about those efforts. Absolutely. So you know, before the government started helping our homeless neighbors, faith-based organizations have been doing it way before and doing a wonderful job. I've traveled around our country. I think I've been a 20 now homelessness organizations and many of them faith-based. And to see the results that they bring the dream center and L.A. Union Rescue Mission helping up in Baltimore, and many more. There are those

in Florida, these faith-based organizations that are treating people holistically, physically, mentally, spiritually, putting wraparound services around them. Well, during the Biden Administration, they were stiff on them. They weren't allowed even to compete for grants or to come to the table. Well, we're changing it. Because we're bringing them back to the table, because they have results that have been for decades upon decades of helping our homeless

neighbors around the country. Men, women, and children, and veterans. And so it's a new day, you know, for our faith-based organizations, because they don't just talk about a cabin,

“they actually get the work done. No, and that's what we want. I have to ask,”

because I think our audience is fascinated by what President Trump is like behind closed doors. That's one of the most common questions we get from our audience when we talk to folks like you, who are plugged in. What does President Trump like? Do anything surprised you about him as you got to work more closely with him? Well, he's real cool. And he likes to sit around and visit with you. He wants to know about you personally. He wants to know if there's anything that he can help you

with in your job. President Trump remembers people that work. If you talk to people that work for his, the Trump organization for all of these years, he knows them all. He knows that families, their children, he's loyal to them, and behind closed doors, he's a great listener, like in our cabinet meetings. He wants everybody to speak, because he wants to understand what's going on in your agency, and he wants to American people to know what's going on in your agency.

And if there's something that you need help with, then he wants to help you. If you go into the other office for instance, and you sit at the Resolute Desk in front of him, let's say it's

everybody. He wants everybody to be able to speak. He's not rushing you. He's not interrupting you.

“He wants to listen to to hear what you have to say. And once he listens to everybody,”

then he comes to a solution. He said, okay, I've heard everybody, you know, we've gone back

and forth. We've debated. Here's what we're going to do. And so his ability to listen and then

to make a right now decision for the American people is really something I've never seen before. But he's really late back. One thing most of the time. I would hope that he wasn't always laid back, because sometimes you got to drop the hammer a bit. One thing I've appreciated, as I remember, the press is how open the cabinet meetings are to the press. And our White House correspondent is often in those cabinet meetings, and it's nice to have that transparency. Before we let you go,

I'm a diehard NFL fan. I got to ask you some questions about your playing career about the game now. We'll do a little rapid fight. And you played eight years, first in Washington and San Diego, are there any receivers that you have nightmares about? Thinking back when you're a career of, oh, man, I hate it having to guard that guy. Who was something the best you had to do? No, a nightmare. Bad memories, bad memories. Yeah, Wayne Crabette from the Jets is a number one

white lightning. I mean, we had, it was just a knockdown drag out game. Yeah. And I mean, he's a great football player. He's tough as nails. He's a great guy, too, by the way. I think it was my second year at the Red Skins, and we were playing the Jets in Washington and RFK Stadium. And I was a

slot corner, and I guarded him the whole game. And he called two crucial first downs. You know,

that to me, you know, if you catch the first down, you know, your career is just dealing. Right,

“that's how you think as a young player. And at the end of the game, my wife said, I don't know.”

I don't know if you're going to be here after this game. But Wayne Crabette really gave me a fit. Yeah, you know, he didn't catch any touchdowns, but he caught first downs. You know, which was enough. I believe Crabette was one of the few guys who didn't work gloves either, which always stuck out to me. He was a tough dude. Yeah. Yeah. He's a tough guy. What about when you watch the game now? Any receivers you think, man, I'm glad I'm not playing any more, because I wouldn't have to guard

him. Well, you know, these were a new game. You know, you got receivers now that are, you know, six, three, six, two, six, four, you know, that run a four, four in the 40. Mm. Back in our day, you know, you had to rail on, you have Michael Irvin, you had Chris Carter, Randy Moss, you know, you had a few guys that were, these got a holiday, about a big guys. They ran great routes. They were tough, but now on every single team, you have two or three of these guys, you know, and the athletic,

“they can jump, they can run. I think what we have back in the day, I think we would tougher,”

you know, the rules were different. Yeah. You used to complete your hands on receivers. Yeah. Now you know, they don't want you to do that. So it's a different game for the safety of the game.

But this, you know, Jamar Chase is incredible. Yeah.

CD Lamb is a guy who he could play any position. Yeah. X, Y, Z. Yeah. And he's a guy. If you don't put your hands on him, it's done. Yeah. Cause he can run, he has great hands. And there's other ones, you know, that our life of those two kind of stick out as a Cowboys fan. I, I big, big CD guy. Final question. If you had to go out and run a 40 today, what are we looking at? High force. They're probably half four, four, low, four, five. Okay. I say that.

What did wrong when you came out? Four point two four. No, you didn't. I did. Okay. So you're, I mean, that's, that's like the on level right there. I had to on a head, wash out. I was a seventh round draft pit. But I ran track and college. Yeah. You were two hundred four guys. Yeah. Okay. So we'll say, maybe we can set that up. We can have everyone at the daily wire. I don't know if we have too many athletes around here. But we get like a 20 yard head

start in the 40 on the 40. Maybe 10. Okay. We'll be 10. I'll give it to you. All right, Secretary Turner. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate your work. Thank you, brother. Thank you. That was Wired in Host Cabot Phillips, speaking with HUD Secretary Scott Turner. And this has been a weekend episode of Morning Wire. What if a few minutes with God could change the direction of your entire day?

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