She Was Born Through Surrogacy. Now She’s Asking Why.

it outright and even imposing criminal penalties on citizens who traveled abroad to obtain a child.

“But the practice continues to grow in popularity as the market shifts to more lenient hubs”

including the U.S. In this episode, we speak to an anti- surrogacy activist who herself was born by a surrogacy here in the U.S. and purchased by foreign parents. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire Executive Editor John Bickley, and this is a week-end edition of Morning Wire.

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Use wire to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time, turns and conditions may fly. Olivia, thank you so much for coming on. Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Now I understand you are advocating to end surrogacy. Could you give us a little bit of background about your story and how you got into this? Sure. I actually like to say that I am a pure product of surrogacy. I was planned, I was contracted, and I was delivered.

So I was born through surrogacy in 1991 in Louisville, Kentucky, so 34 years ago now. And actually I grew up not knowing my origins, not knowing where I came from. At the age of 17, I started making research on internet about the city where I was born in America.

“And I fell on surrogacy agencies, and that's how I kind of found out that I was born”

of surrogacy. And today, I speak as the spokesperson of the Casmalica Declaration that fights for the universal abolition of surrogacy. And they came and found me, they came and found me, and now it's my work. It started as a feeling.

I grew up, I knew something didn't fit, and even if I couldn't really explain it. And I have to say, I wasn't separated by my mother, by tragedy, like an adoption. I was separated by her, by design. And once you see that clearly, you can't unsee it. So I'm not just someone that's born through surrogacy.

I'm its outcome, I'm its product. I was created through a process where a woman's body was used and a child, that's me, was expected to be handed over at birth. And today, I speak not only as someone who was born through it, but also as a mother. And I cannot accept a system that treats women as reproductive vessels for the rich.

And children as outcomes that are to be delivered to those who can afford it. So that's why rejected, not from ideology, but from lived reality. Now, when you say you didn't know where you came from, some people, when they do surrogacy,

they use their own genetic material, and they implant that into a third party.

Were you not raised by your biological parents? What was your situation? I was not raised by my biological mother, but I was raised by my biological father. In gestational surrogacy, sometimes the egg and the sperm of the commissioning parents

But you have to understand that even in gestational surrogacy, that child is going to

bond with his mother inside the womb. He's going to want her at birth. And that's the only person he's going to want at birth. Her smell, her voice, her milk, everything. She's the one that he was living in for nine months.

And that separation is what causes the trauma of abandonment, the primal wound as we call an introduction. Now, how does the process work with surrogacy?

“You talked about how it's basically a bot and sold baby, how does that industry work?”

Well, very simply, you've got a couple, like a commissioning couple. So, or a single parent can actually go through surrogacy, a single father, a single mother can buy of themselves a child. They go to an agency, they put a check on the table, and they go through a catalog of women that are to become the surrogate, and so they can choose her based on her physical

appearance if she went and did studies, they can also choose the egg or their sperm if they need. Once that's done, the fertility clinic is going to create the embryo in a lab, and then insert the embryo into the surrogate mother. Meanwhile, they're going to insert one embryo, or more if you're in other countries than

America. And all the other embryos that have been created are either going to be put into the trash, if I can say, or they're going to be frozen for other surrogate seeds to come. So the surrogate mother is going to have to follow a lot of rules that are very well listed in the contract between herself, the surrogacy agency, and the commissioning parents.

And once the whole process is over, once you give birth to the baby, she has to hand over the child to the commissioning parents immediately. As the surrogate mother have any rights, if she begins to have an attachment with the

“baby, or does not want to hand over the baby, I mean, I think a woman who's not pregnant”

at the beginning of the process may not really have a theory of mind of what it's going to be like nine months later after she's carried this child. Does the woman have a right at the end of it to say, no, I want to keep my child? No, that's one of the clauses is she signs over and she waves over her rights on the child. So she cannot, some point in the process say, well, you know, I want to keep the baby.

She can't. She's bound to the contract. Are there currently any laws on the books regulating this or trying to reign it in any country? Are there certain exemplar countries out there that you think have a more ethical standard

or is this just the wild west in most of the world? That's the wild west in most of the world. I mean, take the United Kingdom, or Canada, where they allow what's called altruistic

“surrogacy, so in theory there's no profit, so that there's no money handed over directly”

to the surrogates.

But in reality, there's always payments, expenses, compensation, indirect financial support.

And then you look at places like Ukraine or the US where you have highly structured contract based systems, that doesn't eliminate the ethical problems, sorry, it just professionalizes it. And so globally, what we see is cross-border surrogacy. People go where the rules are looser, like in Mexico, for example, where you have poor

women becoming surrogates and being exploited and they're not worth a lot. So regulation in one country doesn't solve the issue, it just exports it. And this is not marginal. It's rapidly growing. We're talking about a global industry projected to reach around $200 billion by $2,035 beyond all of that.

The very core problem always remains the same, and it's unchanged everywhere. A woman is going to carry a child and is expected to give that child away at birth. So you can regulate money, you can regulate contracts, you can regulate agencies, but you cannot regulate that separation at birth.

And that's really the key point.

Some practices cannot be made ethical through regulation because the problem is how they are organized. It's what they are. Now you said you had good parents, where were you raised, and when were you transferred from your birth mother to your current parents?

Tell us about how that worked with your family from the very beginning. My commissioning mother is French, and my father is Swiss, and my mother was 50 years old when she decided to have a child, and so she couldn't, and my father was 49 years old. And so they decided to go to the United States and Louisville to find a surrogate. They had me in Louisville, Kentucky.

I was handed over directly to my commissioning parents who I did not know. Now tell us about, you said very early, you knew something wasn't right. What did that feeling feel like, because it sounds like you had an otherwise nice home

I had a very nice home life.

I didn't have any issues from the outside, but from the inside, I was going crazy. I was going crazy at a very, very young age, because I had this sense that I didn't belong. I didn't belong in the family. I didn't look like my mother. She looked a lot older than all my friends, moms that were at school, and we shared nothing

in common, and there was this emotional disconnection that we had between she and I. She tried her best, I really, I don't blame my parents at all. I love them to death, even though we don't talk to each other today because of my position on surrogacy, but my genes were speaking. I'm American, and that just continued until I was in my adolescent years where that feeling

got even deeper.

I kept trying to fill this void inside of me.

“Were they transparent your parents from the beginning about where you came from?”

No, they weren't. They had the perfect life, and they didn't want to break it, and once again, I don't blame them. I do, however, speak to other children, point through surrogacy, that have known from the very, very beginning, and the story doesn't change.

Now, when did you get in touch with your biological mother, and what unfolded there? I got in touch with my biological mother, so my surrogate, when I was 30 years old. So my mother-in-law saw me struggle so badly with depression, anxiety, so she, at 30 years old, gifted me this DNA test, and it came back, and I was matched on the platform with a cousin of mine, and then one day I had a message that popped up on Facebook Messenger,

and it was my surrogate mother, and we exchanged on there. So she explained very clearly that when I was born, I tilted my little head towards her, and that just goes to show that, you know, as a baby, even as a newborn, you know, where to look, who to look for, you know, that you're looking for your mother. And so, got to meet my half-brother, it was one of the most beautiful days of my life.

Of course, the birth of my children were the most beautiful days of my life, but I have to say it was one of the most emotional moments ever.

I finally saw someone that looked like me, that the longed, that, I mean, that really,

we shared so much similarities in the way we look, in the way we talk, in the way we walked, I mean, it was fantastic. And yeah, and then I did have this conversation with my surrogate mother in which she answers

“all the questions that I had, who am I, where do I come from, who are my grandparents?”

What does she like? So she answered really all the questions that I had to try to rebuild myself and to regain my identity. Do you now have a relationship with her? No, I don't.

I don't have a relationship with her. She has her own issues. She is struggling on her side, I think about her a lot, but no, we don't have a relationship. And I wasn't seeking a mother. I was just seeking answers, I guess.

I didn't even go and talk to her. I didn't want to bother her because I thought, you know, she kept the other children and she didn't keep me. So I guess she didn't want to talk to me. And it was a huge present to have all these questions answered.

Now, what does the research say about how kids who were born through surrogacy proceed through life?

“Is it common to have these kind of psychological challenges?”

So there was one study that was done and that the pro-sourgacy lobby uses a lot and it's called the Golem-Vuck study. I mean, it's not a very good study to be honest, but I hope everyone reads it because you can really see how it doesn't make any sense. And other than that, there is no study on surrogate more children.

However, we do have studied children that are adopted. Adoption. We try and repair the situation of a child that was caused by life. And in surrogacy, we program the abandonment of the child. So it's two very, very different things, but we do have one common ground and that common

ground is the fact that we were all separated from our mothers at birth. And we know that adoption can absolutely involve deep questions about identity and loss. And we know that and we have to take it seriously. And studies show that adoption space significantly higher risk of depression and even suicide attempts.

So that just tells us something very, very important, that separation at the beginning of life matters. Have you seen in the time that you've been doing advocacy any hopeful signs that this issue is being, at least, considered and maybe there could be some movement towards tighter regulation?

I've been at this for two and a half years now.

“I have seen huge progress and such great things happening.”

And Italy, we've seen a great ban on surrogacy, and of course it's banned within the country. But Italy has banned its citizens from going abroad and coming back with a child. So that was amazing.

I was sent to Subvakia actually to do some lobbying and talk to some members of parliament

to pass a ban on surrogacy in their constitution and they did it. So we can be very proud. Chile is currently passing a law to ban surrogacy, Ecuador as well. So we're seeing a shift.

“And in the US, I believe you are now speaking about stopping Chinese citizens from coming”

to American buying themselves a child and having the US passport. We've also seen this wonderful UN report from the special repertoire on violence against women and girls, Riemel Salim, who recently just did her report on surrogacy. And she calls for the universal abolition as well. So we are seeing great, great changes and it's only the beginning.

Now what about situations where a couple really would love to have a child, the biological way, but there are various barriers and they can't? What would you say to those parents? What I understand they're a desire deeply. I'm a mother myself, I'm a mother of three, but I wasn't supposed to have children because

I have severe endometriosis, I mean I am through miracles at home.

“So I understand that desire deeply, but you have to understand that a desire, even a very”

real and very painful one, doesn't create a right to a child.

I always say there is no international law to a child, but children have rights.

And we cannot allow this, especially if it involves using other women's body and organizing the separation of a child at birth. So we have to distinguish between empathy for adults and the protection of children. And of course the desire is human. Once again, it does not create a right to a child.

I'm sorry you went through this, but I really appreciate everything you're doing. And thank you for having me here for really, it's an honor. I was anti-suragacy activist Olivia Morrell, and this has been a week in addition of morning one.