540 - Battery and Rock Night

This is exactly right. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Heartstar.

It's Karen Kilkeira, a just a gesture microphone. Here we are with our microphones. Microphones are a big part of podcasting ladies and gentlemen. It's kind of the only part. Really?

Yeah, they do more than we do. Yeah, once you have a microphone, you're basically a professional podcast. You never give it up.

You never shut the fuck up.

You never can shut it down.

“Do you remember when at the way I used to shake the old microphone?”

Yes, dang. Do you remember when we were amateur podcasters? Do you remember when you were the sound guy? Stephen was just a gleam in our eye? I do.

So this funny thing happened to me. This funny thing happened. OK. I was reading this. Are you doing bits?

I'm talking bits. Yes. I'm listening to a book. All right, listen to a book that I totally loved. It was great.

It's one of the drinking alcoholics memoirs that I love so much called drinking a love story by Caroline Naff. It's from the '90s, so I thought it'd be dated. No, it's life changes.

Is this the one where there's a scene where she jumps on her boyfriend's back like that? I don't think they crash.

She's her friend's children, and she crashes like that.

Oh, her friend's children. That's right. Yeah. It's so good. It's changed a lot of things.

I have no drink since I live in. Oh, you serious? Yes. It's been eight days. But the weird thing about the audiobook

is that it's read by the same woman who read Albigon in the dark. No. Her name's Gauber's Aquaman. She's like a famous audiobook narrator.

But I'm listening to this, so write a book. And I'm expecting someone to break into the house in the middle of the night and murder everyone. I think it's just really-- You listen to-- I'll be gone to the dark so many times.

So many times. It's just really like jarring and also like-- I ruined everything for myself, which we're crying. That's actually-- I mean, it is what we do.

Yeah. It's how it is. I think that's so funny. That's like, I wonder if that person probably has the most insane range of books.

And it's like, oh, I can do more than just these two things.

“But I remember that there was a couple of those”

at the time very groundbreaking kind of autobiography tell-alls about here's how I got through this horrible thing. There was another one about eating disorders. It's so-- I think no one recommends it anymore, because it's so triggering.

It's basically someone giving you training manual.

Well, she has a lot of that in there. I mean, it's just-- it's a woman. It doesn't seem like at the 90s. I was discussed a while. You have this idea of an alcoholic isn't it?

It's not a professional, smart woman from a good background. Right. And it just kind of shows that it could be anyone. Yeah. And that it builds and builds, sure does, grows and grows.

And the thought process behind it all is so familiar. I was almost laughing at myself about how obvious it is. But yeah, you know, this is the way. Yeah, alcohol is an addictive substance. Yeah, no.

People get addicted to it. Yeah. Because for a little while, you get to slipy slide out of reality. Oh, nice. It's real nice.

It reminds me of this morning I could not get out of the shower. Because it's-- we're having a very strangely cold summer here in LA. And today, well, I haven't been outside Georgia. I was like, it's freezing today. Did you spill?

I spilled all over the room. [LAUGHTER] Oh, and then I ripped my dress up. Oh, yes. Oh, my God.

Now I'm falling apart. Fan cult. We've got-- [LAUGHTER] So it's coming.

Go on. Go on. Look, look at me. [LAUGHTER] All right.

I'm still drunk. Listen, eight days is not that long. No.

“I think the felt table cloth will be fine.”

It'll be fine. [LAUGHTER] Leave that in, please. All of that. That looks nice to know.

A nice long four-minute hold. [LAUGHTER] Shower. I can't get out of the shower sometimes. Because it's so warm and I don't want to be cold.

So I just keep standing there forever. Sure, I can remember more about not being able to get out of the shower. And then I'm babysitting my friends, kids, but I won't get out of the shower. [LAUGHTER] Just in case, standing back.

Should we just get into it? Yeah. Let's see what. We don't have to fill-- I gave a bookwreck. She gave a bookwreck.

She blew her own dress open. Hey, we have a podcast network. You know what it's called? Exactly right, media. That's right.

Here are some highlights. Well, we do right now have a very big summer announcement for you and we're very excited. It's exactly right, newest true crime limited series. It's a scammer series from our friends at Blanchard House.

You know they know what they're doing. The show's called Royal Swindle. And it follows two Aussie con women who scam members of British High Society. It's a wild story of greed, lies, and love.

So go follow the show wherever you get your podcasts. Get on it early. You are going to want to listen to all of the episodes at once.

It's an amazing story and it's really helpful for you guys to follow

and subscribe and stuff. So a few are going to listen. Please go do that now. Also, there's horses. Oh, fuck yeah.

There's horses involved. The horse people are horses side. The horse are rainbows. Horse are rainbows. And if you're looking for some good news, the next installment

of honking her raise premieres at the end of this episode. Hey, you're welcome in advance.

“And hey, listeners, do you know that you can also be lookers?”

We are on currently Netflix along with our other podcast buried bones. So you can watch brand new episodes of my favorite murder and buried bones every single week right here on Netflix. You can see us on Netflix.

It's really shocking the most people I run into who are like, I saw you on Netflix. I thought your voice was the other one's voice. Always. And if you're creating even more MFM, join the fan called

at fancult.supercast.com. You get every episode of my favorite murder, ad-free, plus merch discounts, exclusive audio, and video content, and more. Good night.

Georgia goes first. Georgia. Who goes first? I got a big one, especially for Australians. Great.

Shout out across the world. Speaking of Aussies. Hey. Oh, look at dried. It did.

Listeners, if you were watching Netflix right now, you'd know that Georgia was getting her little glasses out of her little glasses case. It's just like Mr. Rogers over here. We're George is now turning into podcast personality.

Hello. Hello. It's me, podcaster. Georgia. Okay.

Okay. Stop saying, okay. Okay. Okay, so this isn't-- (laughing)

Can I get a rosé, please? Can I get a martini? Cold as ice. I want to be able to skate on top of it.

“That's how we order a cold martini, did you know that?”

Is that right? I want to skate, meaning it's so icey on top. Like it's like an ice skate on the bar. And there's like, you got it and rolls their eyes so hard. They fall backwards behind the bar.

(laughing)

I would never say that by the way.

I'll say a martini if it's warm. I won't send it back. Okay. I just don't make it skate. But if you don't, I'll smile anyway

because I don't actually know how it just works. If you do so much, you don't even understand. As long as your mustache is curly, I'll do what you say. I'll tip you so much than something worse than me. You tip so much that the owners think

that the bartender's giving you free drinks. So if you're gonna tip a lot, tip and cash. Yes. 'Cause I'll fucking blow out the tips sometimes if the person's like cool and nice

or it's like my neighborhood bar, right? And Vince was like, that actually fucks them over. 'Cause the owner is like, why did they tip you this much? You must be giving away alcohol. And then they get in trouble.

Got it, never thought of that. I had me either. Well, but not at a like a busy place. Not like at a major restaurant. It's like a bar if they see a tab that was like a $36 tab.

And you tip them $50 on it. They're gonna be like, why did they tip you $50 on it? How many drinks do they actually get? Do you have it? That's pretty forensic accounting

when people are just drunk and giving away money 'cause they love the person that gave them the drinks. Right. Is it the drunk rich person or are you giving away drinks? Those are some of them that straight up bad at math.

I just wanted to get the fuck out of them. Do you know what I did the other night? What? I thought I would be cute and try to make the whole thing add up to an even number.

Oh, yeah. And fuck the waiter over by about $13. Oh, no. And I just kept thinking about it. I ended, we went there a second night. So it's not a big deal, but it's just like thinking about it.

Like, why was that the priority? Yeah. A round number for who feels good. Can you? Not for the waiter.

Yeah, but still, it doesn't feel good to me because I know I didn't get there.

Yeah, so I'm always like, I think I minused it

by $10. I can still can't carry the one. My grandma used to carry this card around. That was like tipping. And the exact numbers for what you wanted to tip.

So why don't we have those anymore? We're called calculators in your phone, but I can't figure that out. Right, because you'd have to kind of know,

“I want a little card that says if you want to go 18, 20, 20.”

20 regular big. All right, we'll figure this out later. Someday, we will figure this out. In the meantime, true grand. Let's do a true grand podcast.

We're going to Australia. This is an infamous Australian case that has technically been solved in that the alleged killer was sentenced. But too many Australians, it remains a mystery,

both because they think the wrong man was sentenced. And also because the victim's body has never been found. And some people even question if there is a body to be found. There's a lot of debate over this. We're going to figure it out today.

Great, solve this one. Let's do an on-air solve for once. Yeah, to those who believe Justice was served, it's also a survival story, which in which a young woman escaped her captor and lived to testify against him.

Yep, and to everyone who doesn't,

“she's a liar who fabricated the entire story”

and is responsible for her boyfriend's disappearance. This is the story of the murder of Peter Falconeo and the survival story of Joanne Lees. So you're about to tell a survival story, but we don't know how to interpret it?

We know, okay, she's telling the truth. We do know that. We do, you and I, yeah, and a lot of people. But there's a lot of questions behind it, and that's partly because of the way the investigation

was done, and the way the trial and the evidence went that people questioned a lot of things. And also, she's a woman who survived. And so people just immediately assume lots of stuff. So, okay, we'll get into it,

and we'll get lots of hate mail about it. The main sources from the story are reporting from the Guardian and the Sydney Morning Herald and also there's a documentary called Murder in the Outback, which I watched.

The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. The documentary clearly thinks that the wrong person was put in prison. So I'm, you know, grain results. There's a bias.

Yeah, okay.

“So it's late 2000, Peter Falkonio and Joanne Lees,”

they're 28 and 27 years old. They're a couple from England. They've been together about five years. If you want a picture I'm talking about, she could be played by Selma Blair,

and he could be played by Sean Gunn. James Gunn's little brother from Guardians of the Galaxy. Here's a photo, and actually the people. Oh, okay. She's really pretty.

She's got like a Selma Blair meets Elizabeth Taylor, but British, and the thing going. Yeah. And he's really cute and has a very sweet face in smile. She looks like the sister from Peep Show,

which is a deep cut, very similar to that actress. Totally. So they met at a nightclub. Peter was a student at the University of Written and they moved in together.

And now they're living there 20 something dream. They're taking a year off to travel around the world, just kind of be like backpackers and explorers. They set out in November. They start in Asia and they travel to Nepal,

Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia. Like something most of us would maybe do two of those in our lifetime. Right, you know? Yeah.

In January of 2001, they arrived in Australia, and they both get what's called a working holiday visa, meaning they're allowed to get jobs to fund the rest of their travels in Australia. So Peter and Joens parents are nervous about the Australia

leg of the trip because there's recently been three highly publicized highly violent incidents, two of which targeted backpackers. Those are the backpacker murders, which happened in late '80s and early '90s,

and you covered at a live show in Australia. It's episode '88, and it's just a fucking incredible story

that I had never, I've been a lot, right?

I've been a lot, I mean, this survivor pollen. Yeah, right. And then there's also a horrible fire at a hostel in June of 2000, which had been started on purpose and killed 15 people. So understandably, you know, these 20 somethings

are in Australia, their parents are worried, but for many months of the Australia leg, everything goes well. They stay in Sydney, Joen gets a job in a bookstore and Peter works for a company that installs furniture

and offices, they're just kind of like saving up to go on their next leg of their beautiful trip. I would love to get a job in Sydney and just live there for a little while. I had a bookstore, and just like kind of walk down by the harbor

when you're done. Also I wonder if there's something that knowing your job isn't permanent.

“Like, this is not the rest of your fucking life, right?”

This is like a stop-in between adventures. Yes. So 20s man, you gotta do it, right? This is your sign right now, everyone listening. Just try stuff where the people that are like,

don't leave the house, you're really self-indorse and I would like, but you know, it also good Australia. So they are saving money for their next leg of the trip, which is gonna be a huge road trip across Australia. And as we know, from our tour there,

there's like the big cities, Sydney, and Melbourne, and Brisbane, and then there's nothing fly over like bushland and small towns and then perth. And so there's a lot in between there. That's just kind of long, quiet roads.

Yep, the outback they call it. (laughs) That's Jesus. Thank you for doing my research for me. So they set off for that trip on June 25th, 2001,

in an orange camper van, it's like a VW. And they plan to sleep in the van in the back or like go camping or sleep on the side of the road. You look like you, you look like you, they look thrilled or like miserable.

I mean, I've done it and I've done it in a VW van. Oh yeah, that was my old life, Georgia, that was before I knew you.

It is the kind of thing where you get to see amazing stuff

up close, you get to camp in nature, which was like, you know, doing it like, say in the California Redwoods. Yeah, can't recommend it enough. We were just surrounded, but for somebody like me,

who's a real lover of nice hotels, go to hell. And man, it is. Got to have them, we love service, totally. Just eating indoor shower, hot hot shower, you can just stand around him.

and then they start their trip by heading north.

“By July 11th, they arrive in a place called Alice Springs,”

which is a small city in Northern Territory. So there's all the different territories. This is Northern Territory.

It's kind of basically in the center of Australia.

And Alice Springs is the biggest outpost for many, many miles of barren outback. There's the word outback. Yeah. I looked it up and I saw it described many different ways

online, this Northern Territory and this long stretch of the outback. And it seems like it's a town that's struggling to be touristy while dealing with lots of crime. And there's a lot of lingering racism against the Aboriginal

population. I got this quote on Reddit. The population is a real mixed bag from lefty arts to rekind of people working in government agencies to classic redneck outback bogan.

And I don't know what bogan means. And then someone else wrote, "It's a place criminals go to hide." So they stay in Alice Springs for a few days. And it's kind of like the last stop between civilizations.

And there's like little towns along the way, but not much else. So in the evening of July 14th, Peter and Joanne leave Alice Springs heading north towards the outback, it's also called the red center. Picture Las Vegas, that long stretch from LA to Las Vegas,

of nothing but desert. But the desert is all red. Like this dusty, rusty-looking red color. It's really beautiful. It's a very bear-in kind of Vegas Utah, Joshua Tree,

open land with different kinds of bush. The bush. It's bush country. It's bush country. So at around 6.30 that evening, they stop at a rest stop

where they share what the papers will later refer to as a joint of cannabis. (laughs) The press will make a big deal about this later. And then they continue on their way with Peter driving.

- Well, he's just slightly off the road and comes back. Right? - It ever says slightly off the road and right. So it's about 7.30 now, it's pitch black. There's no moon.

I can not even stress how dark it is out in the bush. - Can I just say this real quick? And it just came to me. - Don't get high before you go drive through 10s of, or hundreds of miles of darkened.

- That's your undeserved familiar with completely. Let's remember they're from England, small town in England. Like one of the people that they met in Alice Springs was like, don't go at night.

There's nothing that's good. - Don't go at night. - Don't go at night. - It's like not safe and it's scary. So they're in a remote area.

They're on their way to a settlement called Barrow Creek. Peter and Joanne notice a pickup truck with a canopy pulling beside the van and keeping pace with them. It's one of those.

Some things wrong with your car pullover situations that we know all too well. And they had been having issues with the car.

“So they assume that's what he's pointing to.”

And she's like, don't pull over. Now I'm gonna trust this guy. There's not traffic on this road at all. There's nobody around. But he pulls over anyways.

So at this point, Joanne hasn't really gotten a great look at the guy, but she sees that he's wearing a baseball cap has a big mustache and Peter walks around the back of the car to talk with the guy. And they talk about sparks coming out of the exhaust pipe.

Maybe Peter comes back around and tells Joanne to sit in the driver seat and rev the engine. So they can see what's wrong with the car. She does that. She hears a loud bang,

which at first she believes is the car backfiring.

But then the man who had stopped them comes to the driver side door where she is and points a silver hand gun at Joanne and tells her to get out of the car. So she immediately realizes that the shot she heard

was probably Peter getting shot. The man ties her wrists together with this weird contraption and gets her into the passenger seat of his truck. And it's a green Toyota little truck with a canopy over the bed. And it's so specific, I'm going to show you a photo.

It's normal to Australia, but it almost looks like a little army there on with a canvas top on the back. And the wheels are lifted a little bit so you can go over rocks and you know what I mean? It's made for the outback.

So this all comes from her after the fact that what wasn't most terrifying traumatic moments of her life that she explains what happened. And she's not totally clear. She doesn't remember a lot of it.

But basically she says she notices a stocky dog writing with him

and then the man throws her down, tries to tie her ankles as well. She fights back and then he forces her into the bed of that truck. But then she leaves, she's tied up. He leaves to do something presumably hide Peter's body because if someone had been driving by, they would have seen that.

And at that moment, she just has this, she says, quote, a strange calmness came over me almost like an acceptance, like this is it. I'm going to die, but then out of sheer terror, I realized that I wasn't just going to die.

He was going to rate me. And I believe that was the turning point

“and that's what saved me because I just all of a sudden”

from somewhere found some strength. And what? She pops up and she's able to get her ankles free and she runs into the bush, runs into the outback.

She hides in a bush. The attacker comes after her scans the area with a flashlight.

It's completely black and somehow the flashlight never quite lands on her.

She's laying flat. There's nowhere to hide. I know. I mean, just the things I'm picturing of the TV shows. I've seen that take place in places like that,

“where it's just like, what do you get down by a plant in the ground?”

And that's exactly so stressful. I know. He eventually gives up and goes back to the road. We're assuming that he wanted to get rid of Peter's body in case someone drove by and he leaves.

And Joanne hides in that bush for five hours until when I am, when she feels safe enough to get out, she returns to the road and flags down a passing truck like a semi. - Thank God, something was passing.

- Yeah. - I mean, and also how scary that would be to be standing there like, well, let's hope this person helps me. - It's hope it's not the same person.

- Oh, it's so scary. - The truck drivers, there's two of them and they are shocked to find her there. They say the fear in her face,

they have never seen it before in their lives.

It's, this is a terrified woman. They use the wire cutters to get the risk stuff off. There's tape around her neck. They get that off. She's got cuts and scrapes everywhere.

She was laying in the bush. And they drive her to the closest service station where they call the police who arrive finally, when the sun rises on June 15th and launch into one of the largest manhunts in Australia in history.

At the scene of the attack, they find a stain on the ground that's later determined to be Peter's blood. So there is a small pool of blood. But they always say that it doesn't seem like there's enough blood and there's no like brain matter.

If he really got shot in the head, there's inconsistencies there. But who knows? They also find the orange bayonh that they were driving about 80 meters off the road,

hidden in the brush. However, roadblocks don't get set up and tell around eight hours after the initial attack. So the search area is vast. It's about two times the state of Texas.

The search area. Thank God, helicopter scan the area, but they don't find anything. Joanne obviously has just survived a terrifying ordeal and so you would expect that she'd be treated

with empathy and respect. However, it's the early 2000s and she's a woman, not to mention young and pretty and so you would be wrong. A huge deal is made over the fact that she just straight up refuses to talk to the press.

And the thing that happens all the time which is she didn't act the way a victim is supposed to act, which we now know is bullshit. She's kind of almost like hostily ignoring the press.

“- The postal ignoring, that's what I do.”

- She's just, that's a plate right out of my playbook.

I mean, also the first thing I thought of when you said that

was the Dingo's eight, my baby. - That's what everyone talks about. - Yes, everyone talks about the Chamberlain case when this gets brought up because she was treated the same way and found out to be totally innocent.

And she's taken the very next day to do a play by a play reenactment of exactly what happened in the car. She walks everyone through it. She doesn't remember a lot of it, but she's very composed.

Which of course it's like, do you think maybe they gave her a value? Do you think maybe she wanted to help the police? She's not gonna break down crying in that moment. - She's just like, it's just the depth you ever compartmentalize.

- Right, exactly. - You have to hire people that have alcoholic parents so that people understand all the tricks of the trade. - I mean, dissociation. - And she's their, yeah, chefs kiss to the situation.

But she's standing there like, yes, the trauma of, or closest loved one murdered in front of her. And then I have to take these steps to get that murder sol. - Right. - No time to be falling apart.

- No, one of the things I tell you right now that I know and that you don't know, could help find my boyfriend if he's still alive. And yeah, that's supposed to be the agreement anyway. It is.

The British and Australian press is immediately pounds on her, like if they're hungry for this like wolves for the story. They suggest that her story might not be true, but that she's hiding parts of it.

Joanne gives a press conference 11 days after the attack. And at the time, it's treated as her like finally dating to speak to the press. And they immediately pick apart what she's wearing. She has like a tank top on that says cheeky monkey.

I mean, there's no PR training back then. - No, yeah, she doesn't play the victim the way they want her to. She doesn't play it smoothly. - Also, that's a kind of thing where it's like, you're trying to get an outfit together for press conference.

“I think you've never dressed for before.”

You don't have anybody on your side. - Right. - And probably if she's in grief or whatever it is, it's like, you're just wearing a shirt. - Yeah.

- You picked up and she's on a trip in a foreign country. - Yeah. - She's picked something out of her luggage and puts it on. - Oh, I forgot about that part about it. - It's only what she has.

- Yeah. - But during the press conference, she acts dismissive. She doesn't cry, which is of course reported on. But it's literally been less than two weeks since she was kidnapped

So even more articles come out.

I mean, it's a huge cover story. Douding, Joanne, saying her tone and behavior you don't seem appropriate. You love it, blah, we all know that. And it seems like she's pretty pissed off at the press

as well as the police. So at this part, start re-interviewing her and this time with a tone that she's a suspect, not the victim. And there's a video of this in the documentary.

They start questioning her story. They say that they gave her statement to some like analysts who said they were 12 apparent inconsistencies lies in her version of events, meaning like shit didn't add up.

And it's like, oh, you mean the story that she told you when she's fucking traumatized. Maybe I, she was also high. - Oh, right, right, a cannabis joint. - Yeah, I forgot about that part.

So they're saying it's inconsistent with the truth.

- Someone comes up and shoots your loved one in the head

“and then you have to tell the story correctly”

or you did this, right? So she does get angry at them, you know. And then after three weeks of this DNA testing on the shirts you'd been wearing at the time of the attack, comes back and there is a small spec of blood on it

that has nail DNA, it's not Peter's DNA. It doesn't belong to anyone in their database of criminals either. Police also turned up CCTV footage from a shell gas station back in Alice Springs

from just after midnight on the evening of the attack. The footage shows a Toyota truck with a canopy matching Joanne's description. You can't see the plate though. And it shows a man going into the station

he's wearing a baseball cap, he has a mustache, just like Joanne said. We don't know if it's the person that she said it was. It's just someone happens to drive in, who matches the description at that time.

Multiple descriptions, right, car and face, right? Despite all this evidence, there are many stories picking apart minor inconsistencies. For example, there's conflicting details in a composite sketch.

We don't even know if the guy in the shell station is him. So if it's not consistent with him, it's maybe because it isn't him, right, we don't know. So two years go by with occasional articles that still cast doubt on Joanne's story.

Peter's body is never recovered,

and there's no meaning believes. And then in 2002, a 42 year old drug runner named Bradley John Murdock. What?

“- It's just it's late in life to be a drug runner, I think.”

- It's just like be a drug dealer at this point. - Right. - So he's a bad dude. So people don't think he's guilty. People do either way.

He's a criminal. He was in a motorcycle gang. He's been a drug runner for a long time, and there are some violent acts on his record as well. - Okay.

- He's a racist. He has racist tattoos. He's pulled a gun at a soccer game on an Aboriginal crowd, and he's not a good dude. So he's arrested in connection with a different case,

in which a 12 year old girl and her mother are both abducted from their home and their bounding bag sexually assaulted and kidnapped for 20 hours, driven away. And this isn't mistaken, I did.

I'd be like they picked the wrong guy in a lineup. Like they knew him. He lived in their back house, and they identified him. - Yes. - This is Bradley John Murdock, the drug runner.

And he's like six, seven, six, eight. He's a huge man. And when he's arrested, police noticed a few things. He had tie cables in his truck consistent with what the mother and daughter said they were tied with.

And also consistent with what Joanne had been tied with. The truck seems to match Joanne's description. It's the same one as we looked at. And that Murdock had been tracked down and interviewed in 2001 because his truck matched the model

in those gas stations CCTV footage.

“I think they just questioned a lot of people”

with records who had that truck. But police had not gotten DNA sample from him then. They get one now, it's tested, and it's found to be a match for the blood that had been on Joanne's shirt. Wow, so it's a match.

- Okay. - And then he's acquitted of the case with the mother and daughter. It's a hungry, it just seems crazy. - It seems like, what's the word? - It's so fucked up. - Yeah, it's almost like,

they just put enough reasonable doubt into the Joanne's head that they didn't convict him, but right, it's clear to most of us. But he did. Got to have that evidence.

- Yes. - And then immediately as he's walking out of the courtroom, he's tackled by police and he's arrested for Peter's murder. - Oh, shit. - They were like ready moments.

- Oh, yeah. - Incredible. - Like, he gets off on this immediately bringing him in. - That had to feel good to like, that prosecutor. - Yeah.

- It's like, go ahead and enjoy that two minutes right. - Right. - You got acquitted, right. - The case attracts so much attention, the trials delayed for a while,

and so it eventually starts in October of 2005 in Darwin. Murdoch's lawyers use the angle of discrediting Joanne's testimony, 'cause she's ready to testify against him. This includes suggesting that she was having an affair while she was living in Sydney, which in fact,

She had an affair with a man, so they used that

as part of the headlines. - Sorry, how old is she? - 27. - I mean, yeah. Isn't that what everyone does?

- Yeah, and she admitted it. It wasn't like a revelation at trial. - She admitted it to the police. - She said that they hadn't affair, they liked each other.

She was gonna go on the strip with Peter, and then they were gonna see where they landed. And she got put into like police custody and emailed him the sky while she was in police custody like weeks after Peter's death or incident,

and said, "When this is over, meet me in Berlin." Just didn't look good for her.

“- Oh, and that's why police were kind of going after her more.”

- I mean, even if it's purely like a scapest, and I just want to be in a time where this is over,

sorry, that's the first of all.

Can everyone just stop putting things in fucking writing? - I mean, seriously, she's not a perfect victim at all, which is upsetting to people, but it doesn't mean she's not a victim. - This is worst case scenario for if I was that defense lawyer.

I would just be like, "Are you fucking kidding me?" - Yeah. - 'Cause this is motive now. - Right. - Well, that's the thing too, it's so fucking annoying,

is there like, when people who say that, Murdoch didn't do it, they say there's no motive. There's no motive because she fucking took off. The motive was to murder it. - To rape it.

- It's actually a solid and rape this woman. Come on, like, that's the motive, period. - No, you're completely right. I mean, the idea of a motive for a serial rapist is the act, so that doesn't make sense at all.

Like saying they didn't have money on them or something? Like, what the fuck? - I don't know. I'm trying to steal the cards.

No, he killed the boyfriend and tied up and kept alive. The girlfriend. - May I introduce you a bunch of other serial killers over a history that we have talked about? - Seriously.

- It's one, do you wanna hear about? This is why we talk about it. So Joanne testifies against Murdoch, who she is already identified in a photo line up, which also has some issues behind.

If you watch the documentary, you'll see. She might have seen this guy getting arrested in the news and then did the photo line up and picked him. The evidence against him and this whole trial, like isn't great, and that's a lot of what people argue

is based on the evidence that doesn't show that he's guilty, even though he could be. - Right, so that's difficult for people and I understand that. - Yeah, that is.

- And so Murdoch is found guilty, both of the murder and of assaulting Joanne. He appeals to sentences multiple times unsuccessfully laws are passed in Australia that prevent any convicted murderer of being granted parole

who has withheld the location of a body that has not been found. They keep saying, take us to the body.

“If he didn't do it, then he can't do that, though, right?”

In 2019, Murdoch has diagnosed with throat cancer and he died just about a year ago in July of 2025 without ever revealing the location of Peter Falconio's body. In the statement, the family says about Murdoch, quote, "We are only forced to think about him

"now that he's died, we don't wanna let him ruin our lives "more than he already has. "The awful thing is our family's future with Peter "was truly taken away. "Today, we instead focus on the three children

"we have left and our grandchildren. "We didn't have much faith that we were hoping "radly John Murdoch would reveal "where Peter was before he died. "But even now, we still hold out hope

"that his remains will be found," end quote. And the Northern Territory police are offering a reward of up to $500,000 for information leading to the recovery of Peter's remains. He would be 53 years old right now if he were still alive.

And that is the story of the attack on Peter Falconio and Joanne Lees. - Wow, now what would you do knowing this story? I don't know, you just told me, yeah. - But knowing this story, if you found out

the DNA evidence, it actually was all her plan. - Oh, well. - With that shock you to your bone.

“So is that something you're like, it's absolutely not possible?”

Based on the evidence, it's not possible, but based on the evidence against him. And there's other DNA evidence that doesn't check out, it's just a little like, it's hard to believe his story against Murdoch.

I don't know, I don't have to say, I would be very, very shocked if she had something to do with it. - Okay. - What about you, you don't know? - Well, just based on what you told me,

it's like that idea, it's like, believe women always,

and yet we have told many stories about women who never stopped lying. You know what I mean? Had very evil intent from early days. So it's not impossible.

I just think it's fascinating. When cheaters cheat as if it's no big deal in the grand scheme of things, where it's like, you just put a little time bomb in your future that then tells the person

that you care about the most.

- Right. But what's her motive, though, to be with this guy, then just break up with your boyfriend. They're not married, they have no financial ties. And there's just so many weird inconsistencies.

“And I think that the police investigation”

because of the way it was done first and foremost made it. So it'd be really hard to convince someone for this and have everyone believe they got the right guy. - Yes. - So anything about her being guilty based on that evidence

also can't be trusted, right? So I just don't think there's more evidence that this guy Murdoch has guilty than she is. And even that is kind of loose. - Right.

- Although just the affair really, yeah, screws it. It's not good. - But then wives of motive. - Yeah. - The other people talk about it's like,

why would, how she'd never been to this place,

this remote place in the middle of nowhere? How are you going to plan this perfect crime and get away with it? - Yeah. - But there are little weird things like the dog

that was with him. She identified as the wrong kind of dog, which just shows that maybe it's not Murdoch. But also she told them she got in the truck. He forced in the truck this way.

And there's actually no way to get into the truck that way. But it's like she was traumatized and she was going through it. She remembered it incorrectly. - I mean, something like that,

and I'm just guessing, obviously. But it sounds like the kind of thing where cops went and re-enacted something later on. And it's like, well, she's saying she did this. And then you want to go,

how big was the cop that was playing her? - Right. - How big? - She went to the re-enactment. - She is six foot eight, also.

(laughs) And the other thing is, oh, she went and said, she's standing there going, this is how I did it. - Yeah, like you couldn't have.

- Step by step, yeah. And they're like, that doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense. There's also the theory that people believe that Peter Falkonio is still alive

and had just fake to sound death and disappeared. And maybe she helped him with it. And that's why she's lying. People say that they've seen him. - Oh, some people say she's in on it.

Some people say she's not. - Yeah, but that he's still alive. And he, like, just escaped his life. - And she's based, this is her cover story? - Yeah.

- Or she's not in her. - Yeah. - Those two guys, it's like, I'm kidnapping your boyfriend. - Right.

“- I think that's the most male ideal version.”

- Yeah. - We're just like, no, these are two guys having a prank. - It's not a man killing the man so he can rape the woman. - And then there's no motive again. Like he didn't have his crazy dad.

He had a lovely family and he's young. - He was a very sweet guy. I ever loved him. - Mm, yeah. - Well, but I think all of it just is,

it's just all smoke and mirrors to point away from the person who most likely murdered him in the exact way that she said it happened. - It's interesting because I feel like those, I saw them after the fact I witnessed things.

So not helpful.

It just feels like they're always wrong.

- Yeah. - But, I mean, man, please come back to me about this within three months because I don't, this is frustrating. - I will, I know you hate it.

And it's not a cold case. I didn't give you a cold case. - It's still, it's still frustrating. - Considered solved. - Yeah, that's tough.

- Well, also, the police wanted to solve it as soon as possible to, for tourism sake, you know. And so that they've got the right guy, you think that she would have said that he was six foot eight or whatever,

when describing her attacker. She doesn't say much, she got a great look at him, but she's in the passenger side. He pulls up behind them and says pull over something's wrong. She's sitting in the passenger seat.

She's talking to him. - Yeah. - If she did turn around, it would be headlights and rides. All of the inconsistencies on her that they place on her can be explained.

- Yeah, by logic. - Yeah, so yeah, well, okay, well great job. - Thank you. - Thank you. - And interesting and important. - Yeah.

- Uh, God, I hope, you know, I would just be nice. - I'll let you know. - Okay, thank you. - We're gonna take a left turn today in honor of the World Cup.

- Oh. - That's happening here in the United States of America. Did you hear about any of this? - Yes.

- It's bringing worlds together, amazing.

- People are having a, this is the dawning of the age of Aquarius moment, Boston and Glasgow.

“I believe are now deeply in love and getting married.”

You're watching a lot of people from the UK come over and eat real southern food in Georgia and lose their fucking mind. - Amazing. - I heard something about ranch dressing being prevalent.

- People are sending it back to themselves. People are getting caught with it in there. - Carry on, love it. - And I think for a lot of people here, it's like people here are being reminded

of why this is a great country. - Somebody ranch dressing. - It's ranch dressing and southern food. And someone said it's like, I've heard this twice now. It's like we're all cousins and our parents don't get along.

So we don't like each other. - Oh my God. - And we finally got dropped off. I'm gonna get to have a sleepover. - Yeah.

- And now everyone's having a great time

- You realize you've been lied to this whole time

by your parents and these kids are awesome. - Love that. - Countries are not the governments that make terrible decisions for them. - Thank you.

- It's the people. They force us to pay taxes that go to do terrible things, but we don't want that. - We don't want it and we love our fellow man. - We do.

- It's all very beautiful.

“TikTok.com if you want to jump in on it.”

It's pretty lovely. So kind of in celebration of that. And the fact that I think I've told you the story, but Robin Coliseum and I, my sister's friend Adrian's husband, if we can, we will watch World Cup games

if I'm like home for the summer or around. - Yeah. - And the fun thing about it, we started doing it when we were on vacation. And why is getting up and watching them at like 3/3 in the morning?

- Yeah.

- And so be like someone would get donuts the night before

and we would do this whole thing. And then we would be the weirdos in the front room. And of course, I don't care about soccer one or the other, but it was I love being up in the middle of the night for now, for like a weird reason.

- Love it. - And we're gonna do it again when I go home for, for the July and I'm very excited. - By the time this episode airs, which will be on Thursday, July 9th,

it'll be the semi-final starting. - Okay. - And just for your own interest, we have more than 27,000 listeners in Chile. - Really?

- And 90,000 in Brazil. - Wow. - So for listeners that are in those countries, "Hi, we can't believe you listened to this podcast." - Thank you.

- We're so excited. - Yeah, welcome. - Absolutely. - Welcome, maybe. - Bonitos.

- Google how to say it correctly. - Don't use AI. - So we're just very excited that you're here. - So this story begins, September 3rd, 1989. Just before five o'clock PM,

it's the South American qualifiers for the 1990 World Cup at the Maracana Stadium in Rio de Janeiro. The matches between Brazil and Chile,

“I'm pronouncing it Chile because that's how you're supposed”

to pronounce it, but it makes it sound like I know what I'm doing and I absolutely do not. - But I feel self-conscious about it. But I'll still say it. - We appreciate that.

- Kind of like an art teacher in high school, frankly. Have you ever been to Chile or Brasil? - So in this match that I'm telling you about, it's about to take place. Brazil has the advantage, they have the home field advantage,

but also Brazil in the soccer world. Football is the rest of the entire globe calls it. In football, Brazil is a powerhouse. The kids play with a smaller heavier ball as they grow up.

So by the time they get to the bigs or even the mids, they are faster and sharper and better have saw that. And it's Brazil is where Pele is from. - Sure.

- Who's the greatest, many believe the greatest fall time?

- Basically Chile is going into this,

the underdog just because Brazil is like the Yankees of football. - Got it. - Do not write in no one cares. - We don't know.

- We don't know. - We don't care. - Thank you.

“It's just slightly defensive about how much I don't know”

about what I'm talking about. - Okay, so Brazil has won the World Cup five times more than any other country. But the Chilean fans still have faith. Their team could beat the odds.

Thanks in no small part to their 32-year-old captain and the goalkeeper, Roberto Rojas, Robert the Red. He is ready to do whatever it takes to get his team to the World Cup. And that ambition will lead to one of the most notorious

incidents in South American sports history. - I agree. - This is the story of the 1989 Brazil versus Chile World Cup qualifiers. - Is this the wrong goal story?

- There's a lot of elements to this story. - Can you see it? - What? - Do there are other waves coming? I'm having the huge applause right now.

- Oh, I feel like he's not angry. - Can you see how much I love football? - Oh no. - Okay, so the main source is used for today's story are an episode of ESPN's 34-30.

Podcasts not 30 by 30, the measurements that I once said that show is entitled five. Also a 25 episode of BBC's sporting witness podcast and an article by a writer named Daniel Edwards at a little website called Goal.com

and the rest of those sources are in our show notes. So there's already been drama between Brazil and Chile before the playoff match that I'm talking about. Two years before 1987, they went up against each other

in an early round of a tournament called the Copa America, which is between all the southern American men's national football teams. Brazil is the favorite to win once again, but when they go head to head with Chile,

Chile ends up beating them in a stunning 40 upset. - Oh shit. - So the goalie of Chile's team, Roberto Rojas, plays a flawless game. And he does not let a single goal get by him,

which is no small feat. As journalist Daniel Alarcone puts it, quote, "Quite, frankly, goalkeepers are insane.

for his or her own safety. They live on the edge." - Yeah, terrifying. - So scary. So over his decade-long career,

“Rojas has done just that, earning respect”

with his passion, fearlessness, and athleticism that he plays with. Let's take a picture. - There he is, super star of Chile football. He's been caught up in a couple note

where these scandals, though, from earlier in his career. One involved him lying about his age, so he could participate in youth tournaments. It's odd, and another involving dopeing.

- Produced standards scandals for football players, but he is despite that a national hero, the fans call him El Condor, because contours are the national symbol of Chile. - We're gonna learn a lot today, okay.

- And they kind of think he looks like a condor, so it's, but it's all a form of respect.

So basically, when Chile goes and whips Brazil's ass,

at the Copa, America in 1987, his national icon status is truly cemented, and ultimately Chile places second in that tournament.

“They, as a country, have appeared at the World Cup several times,”

their best run was in 1962, this is Chile, when they came in third place, but now this World Cup tournament in 1990, that's gonna be an Italy. This feels like it's their big chance.

It's the final days of the brutal military dictatorship of Pinochet. It's a time of major political and social of people in the country. Soccer matches have become places

where in passion to lay ins can express their national pride on a global stage. So there's a lot in it for them. The 1989 World Cup qualifiers have Chile and Brazil face off again. They play two games in this qualifier.

The first one takes place in Santiago, on August 13th,

at the city's national stadium. It's called National Stadium. It's nearly at Capacity, the crowd is riled up. Look how big the stadium is. Just to give you the sense-- - Holy shit.

- It's super bull size and level. I mean, obviously we know this, but the rest of the world's football is our football, with different shaped balls. So all those people going crazy, normally both football teams playing that day come out

of that tunnel and onto the field together, mostly so that riled up fans don't throw shit at the opposing team, right? So they're both there, nobody throws anything. And so that is just basically standard play for these qualifiers.

But on this day, before Brazil is ready to go, Team Captain Roberto Rojas just has his team go out first. He leads them out onto the field without Brazil. Forcing Brazil to walk into this packed stadium alone. It's an explicit break from protocol.

“It's meant to rattle Brazil in a crucial pregame moment.”

But it's also part of a larger mentality that Chilean journalist Danilo Diaz, shorthands, as quote, "Masbandidos, K-Losbandidos," which means more bandits than the bandits.

Which is basically they're going to fuck with you

so fuck with them first. That's kind of the motto in podcasting. Yes. Not all teams of this era are of this Macavallian mindset where the end justifies the means.

But some do, and in ESPN's 30 for 30 podcasts, they cite a few stories about various Latin American clubs accused of allegedly doing these moves. Some have been accused of allegedly drugging their opponents before them.

Let me shit. I'm going up to you. Yeah, right. For every podcast, that's a good one. I have a question.

They've also been accused of covertly photographing these players in compromising situations with sex workers. Then blowing those pictures up and hanging them around the arena before they came out. Oh, that is vicious.

It's fucking insane. Some club managers have been accused of releasing a small dog onto the pitch. When the team is ahead to basically run down the clock, that's the third in that list, the least bad.

But it's all dirty play and the list goes on and on. So Roberto's move of walking out without the Brazilian team is kind of that muscleing that they do. And it definitely sets a palpable feeling of a hostility in the stadium that, of course,

it's even before gameplay once the game starts that tone increases dramatically. So now we're just a minute and a half into the game when a Chilean midfielder aggressively tackles a Brazilian player and injures him.

Somehow that Chilean player only gets a yellow card, which is the official warning card. But then as the injured Brazilian player is being taken off the field, a fight breaks out between other players

And this time, a Brazilian player is given a red card,

“which means he is now kicked out of the game.”

Afterward, that Brazilian player will tell reporters, quote, "I didn't hit him that hard." So it just started with a bit of violence. Around minute 14, the Chilean player who got the yellow card tries to trip a Brazilian midfielder.

And when he realizes he is going to get carded again, which probably means he's going to get red carded. He tries to intimidate the rough. So then a Brazilian player steps into defend the rough, while several Chilean players grab their teammate

try to get him to calm down and come over to the bench, basically.

And they are all worried he's becoming a liability. So it's a pretty even match between the two teams and the goalie Roberto Rojas is playing a near-perfect game. He defends shot after shot made by Brazil by halftime, the score is 0 to 0, which is a very big deal

when teams are playing against Brazil. To just to keep them from scoring is, yeah, because you can end in a tie and you can end, just keep them from scoring and get one more than them, and that's all you need to do.

I just explain it all sports. But 11 minutes into the matches. Second half things take a turn when a Chilean defender near the goal.

“So basically, Roberto Rojas the goalie is back here by the goal box.”

And nearby one of the another Chilean player needs to basically kick the ball down there, so they can go start playing on the other end of the field. But like you anticipated, yeah, sorry. Yeah, when he goes to do this, no, because it's famous.

He goes to do it, and instead of sending it,

he hits the back of his own player, and it bounces off that guy's leg and goes into the fucking net. So he scores on his own team for Brazil. I only know about this because of Vince explaining it to me. And it's just a nightmare.

Yeah. And of course, now there's already Hustell and Ann Bad vibes in the stadium. People go nuts. So he does that out on his own home team field with an audience full of nightmare. Like hardcore fans.

Tentons are high. Now this gigantic mistake from the underdogs. Now that I know you're doing this story, I can't believe it. This is so fucked up. Yeah, that's great.

I love it. Yeah, okay. It's an accidental assisted goal for Brazil. As I said, the bad vibes go from bad to rotten. The score is now 1 to 0 Brazil.

But is it the fault of the guy who kicked it or the guy who ricochet off of the kicker? But he kicked it to his. Two is guy. I mean, like who knows?

It's nobody's fault. I literally've watched four soccer games and without a pause. I'm like, it's the fault of the man with the leg. Ah, why not? I played soccer.

I think he could. No, I swear. I love orange slices.

“I think it's like, I would say primary kicker because he was”

supposed to kick it up and far and then he just kicked it straight over to that guy or nightmare. So now there's just seven minutes left in the game. And another bizarre thing happens. Oh, no.

After a Brazilian foul, Chile is given a free kick. Right. The underdogs have a chance. You can fucking even it up as long as you don't lose with that point. Yes, everyone will be fine.

Just clear clear it. But when the Brazilian players hear that Chile's being given a free kick, all the Brazilian players on the field, including their goalie, get furious. And they start arguing and confronting the refs and going crazy

that this is not fair. And as they're doing that, a Chilean player that's near the ball

realizes they never call time out.

And he very subtly passes the ball to a teammate who then just kicks it straight into the goal. It is legal play and they make that point. Holy shit. Yes.

So Chile gets the goal. So we're one to one. We're one to one. Everything's going to be fine. So is not insane.

That is so banana. They actually review it and it's decided it's declared legal like time out or whatever. I mean, they must have, right? So the game ends in a tie one to one.

Phew. Well, the crowd, they were growing pissed off before. But now the game's over no one satisfied. It's like both teams lost to them essentially. So as the teams walk off the field,

that fans just start throwing, they throw batteries. They throw rocks. They throw anything so can. Was it battery in rock night? It was the soccer game.

B-Y-O-B or R. He's a hand them out when you walk in. Who's got those, all those batteries. And Dodger Stadium. They said, well, it was like, you know, it was 1990.

So there's people with radios. But still, it's just a little better. They're like, I'm not throwing my radio. That's right. Honey, give me your purse.

Later on in the locker room, a reporter calls Roberto out for fanning the flames of the fan hostilities by leaving Brazil in the tunnel when they were walking out. And Roberto responds by saying, quote, man,

So there's another game left between these two teams.

“So they have a final kind of chance to reverse this.”

Both teams do. According to the way the point system works in the World Cup qualifiers, Chile has to win by at least one goal to stay in the running to play in the World Cup. Okay.

They just need to get a point. They need to get a point. Then they need to get more points. Which is how you win everything. Now we're back where we started.

It's September 3rd, 1989. We're in Rio de Janeiro. We're at the Maracana Stadium. The energy could not be more different than it was in Santiago. The vibes are great. It's described later as a 150,000 person party

with a mostly Brazilian crowd.

They're all wearing the country's colors. They have tambourines. They have little drums. They're shooting off flares.

“They're shooting off fireworks in the stadium.”

Jesus. And they're all hot. So it's just a great time. Oh, hot. Doesn't look good.

Yeah, we're in Brazil. We were. So the match begins and like probably every other team on Chile, Roberto, the goalie is playing like his life depends on it. He blocks shot after shot from the Brazilian offenders.

The crowd's keyed up. They're cheering when Brazil launches balls towards Chile's goal. Because it's home team. And when Roberto blocks it, they cheer and they boo. And doesn't matter, doesn't shake him.

At halftime, the score is still 00, which is huge for Chile. They are preventing Brazil from scoring. But if they tie, then Brazil wins. Right. Yeah, yeah, okay.

It's like a sudden death situation, yeah.

So lesson five minutes into the second half.

A shot finally gets past Roberto. Brazil scores the stadium erupts in cheers. Doesn't let up. It's now one zero Brazil. So everyone, of course, has locked on this gameplay.

As the Chileans now have the ball, they're driving it down the field. Some are looking toward their end where Roberto Rojas is standing in the goal box. So when a flare suddenly comes down out of the audience and falls onto the field, like near him, it lands in a plume of smoke that just seems to swallow him whole. Dumbledore?

Yeah. Is it Joe from a rest of development? After a moment, the smoke clears and the crowd looks in horror as they watch Roberto Rojas riding around on the ground in pain, clenched, clutching his bloody face. Oh my god, I didn't know this.

He's immediately carried off the field and into the locker room.

“I think we have picture of the flare falling onto the field during the game.”

Some drunk person just holy shit. Yeah, it's like a firework. Yeah, and then we have photos, of course, of him being carried off bloody, being carried off the field, that's him down there and you can see the blood from this side. God, that's violent.

It's crazy. So they get him into the locker room and they find a one and a quarter inch gash across his forehead. In protest of what seems like a blatant attack on their captain by a crazed fan, the Chile players refuse to continue this game.

Brazil, meanwhile, is stunned. They have no idea what's happened. They know it's serious and they also know that this happening could hand Chile, the automatic win. So in the aftermath of the game's abrupt ending, many Chileans are of course

furious. So it's another one of these weird endings where it's all the sudden we're just in this insane medical problem and no one really knows what's going on. Some of the Chileans even go protest outside of the Brazilian embassy in Santiago when they go back home.

Well, aren't the Brazilians pissed too though because they were, they were going to win. You know, well, they don't know what's going on. So they don't they think that maybe they're a fan of theirs is who did this, like through this flare, right, that it was kind of an attack. And so they're just kind of not sure what to do about it.

But Chile is like, you have attacked our player, you did this on purpose. There's a lot of emotion on the Chilean side, but there's healthy speculation and suspicion about what happened on the Brazilian side. Many onlookers are wondering how a flare would result in the last serration instead of resulting in burns.

Roberto has no burns. He's insisting the injury was a result of that flare and there is no evidence anything different. I wouldn't have to know that was going to happen. And then like, it's like he's a wrestler who has like a razor blade in his head.

Yeah, obviously, right, exactly. So even though hundreds of cameras are present at the match that day, it's initially thought they were all pointed down for the opposite end of the field. Until within hours of photographer named Ricardo Alfieri comes forward saying that during the game, he saw the flare out of the corner of his eye and he whipped around and snapped

five shots as the flare fell to the ground and his undeveloped photos get shot around.

Oglobo is the one who gets them buys them. And in the middle of the night calls the head

“of their photo lab, she's fast asleep at home.”

They say, get in here and develop these pictures for us. It is unclear how much Alfieri is paid. I want to know ESPN says it's around $5,000 in 1989, 89, 89, 5,000 today is 10,000. 13,000. And close to, but no one attempts to translate it in Brazilian muscles, so we don't know

the reason. We can just assume that it's he got a bunch of money much higher than going right. So these five photographs run in the Oglobo newspaper the next morning in full color. And they clearly show this flare landing several feet behind Roberto Rojas making no contact with him.

Then him throwing his body into the plume of smoke and basically becoming a part of it,

there's no contact between this flare and Roberto Rojas and these photos like to show that very clearly. He's not even close to it. It's back there. And he's claiming that the cut is on his forehead.

Right.

“And then basically the pictures go, yeah, that he throws himself into the flare and then there's”

blood. Right. Now everyone thinks it's in the newspaper. So now everyone thinks it's in the lab where it's done. When police track down the person who's set off the flare, they find out it's a young

Brazilian fan in her 20s named, we're not sure about the pronunciation of this fan's name, but we think it's Rosemary Mayo. So setting off flares was very common at football games in South America, or at least, you know, firecrackers and flares whatnot in the 80s. They would do it a lot, hers just happened to be the one that hit the field.

She pointed it towards the field. Well, it's toward the field, but not toward a person. Right. So she's eventually cleared of any involvement in like a conspiracy to injure Rojas.

But in a weird twist, the public interest around her becomes so intense, she basically

becomes an overnight celebrity for setting the flare. And a few months later, in November of the same year, she's on the cover of Brazilian playboy.

“Well, I told you everyone was hot at this game, right?”

She's basically identified as the Americana fireworks girl. Wow. She went viral before going viral as viral. She's like, I'm in this too, but in the end, investigators conclude Roberto's gash was self-inflicted.

But what do he like hit his head on the ground or something? Basically, he saw the flare drop. Yeah. And then he opportunistically was like, he basically was going to injure himself.

And then basically, he thought the flare is the perfect excuse to be injured.

But basically, he doesn't talk about any of this. He keeps his mouth shut. FIFA, which is the International Football governing body, declares Chile, the match losers and advances Brazil to the 1990 World Cup. And then months later, after investigating FIFA, Hans Roberto, a lifetime ban from competition.

The team Chile has fined $31,000. And that's how much in today's money? $56,000. $80,000. Yeah.

So basically, Roberto finally has to come clean. And he reveals he's slashed himself with a razor blade that he'd hidden in his goalie glow. Oh, shit. Before the match began. What?

He's just waiting for a moment to do this. He basically had a backup so that in case it was needed, this could take place because they knew that the dirty play was going to happen. Anything could happen. They had to be ready.

Idea. Got it. But you ended up being the dirty player and bad dirty. He basically says that the idea of doing this was like an insurance policy idea that was lingering in his head, or even in a scapeach to get Chile out of matches that had taken

a downward turn. And he didn't act alone. The Chilean head coach and team doctor were also in on this scheme. So in an interview later, Roberto tells a newspaper, quote, I cut myself with a razor. And the farce was discovered.

It was a cut to my dignity. And this all runs under the headline, I'm guilty. So he genuinely seems remorseful, which might explain why in 2001, FIFA resens that lifetime ban. And Roberto Roja goes on to coach goalies in of all places Brazil.

Shepherding a new generation of soccer players. And later, he becomes a well-known sports-pundit in South America. Despite everything, he's in his 60s now. He is a beloved sports legend in Chile.

He lives there. He coaches there.

His wife Vivian has told CNN, quote, here in Brazil, Roberto has always been loved.

The most important thing for Brazilians is that he has, in his interviews, come across as a human being with a very distinct and good character. And he has admitted his guilt and been forgiven. Yeah, take responsibility for your polishes, so doubling down with a bunch of fucking lies. And being like, "Hey, how about we talk about the insane pressure that sports puts

on the players and the staff when no matter what at all costs?" And that's the story of the Pandora, Roberto Rojas. Wow. Yeah. He fucking cut himself, like a wrestler, like a professional wrestler.

Just exactly like how you described it. Wow. That's right. That's right.

“How many times that's actually happened and not gotten found out?”

Well, what's funny is to-- and I think it's also the sweet part of the World Cup having such a profound, beautiful effect on this country is we can celebrate and enjoy sports without being emotionally invested, therefore without beating the shit out of our, the opposing teams fans in the parking lot or something like that. And instead enjoy like the show of the show.

And suddenly, you know, and maybe it's too general, but I think it's true for American male culture. You get to be there and enjoy the fun and the partying and the drinking and the whoa without turning a bus over and lighting it on fire. Because you just are like, that's enabling the people in Lawrence Kansas to fully support

the Albanian team, like they even know what's going on there, just like, "Oh no, we're Albanians now because you're here practicing in our town." Wow. Really lovely. But I mean, the other side of sports is that thing where you're just, it's when no matter

what, no matter the cause, no matter the cause, yeah, for sure. And putting your own pride in whether that team wins or not. How about a little pride in honesty for fuck's sake? Why is that so hard? Wow.

Well, great job. That was a wild one.

I had never heard of before.

Crazy, right? Yeah.

“Hey, have you ever done anything like that?”

Let us know. Hey, have you ever pulled a razor blade out of your goalie glove to make other people feel bad? Write it in it. My favorite murder at Gmail for a hometown episode.

Hey, Karen and Georgia, my name is Stone Cold Steve Austin and I've pulled a number like this a time or two. Wow. Great job. Thank you.

Crazy couple stories. Right? Epic one, I think. This show has a summertime vibe to it. Okay, you're going to tell me that story.

Now, I'm going to tell you something, it truly has nothing to do with anything. Oh, well. Okay, I'll take a fucking martini that skates. Okay, so this batch of honking herays is brought to you by Hyundai. Thank you, Hyundai.

Are you ready to do this? Yeah, you're first. Okay, the title is hooray.

“And it says, my hooray is my 63-year-old mother.”

She was raised in the mountains of Maine with a high school education. She built a career at a male-dominated field raised me after my dad passed away when I was six. Made sure to take care of my mental health during that time, endured a decade's long marriage. So, it was written.

Got it. And it's just been promoted to director reporting directly to the C-Suite of a nationwide company. She sacrificed so much for everyone around her and somehow still managed to raise a technoship daughter, I'm an offer grit her persistence and this will earned accomplishment.

Hooray for the glass ceiling, breaking mama's proud murdering her daughter. Hell yeah. That's a hooray to start off with. That's beautiful. Yeah.

This is from McNeil Colleen on Instagram. It says, my hooray is at age 43. I started tap dancing. Nice.

I had never danced a day before in my life.

My Gregory Hines. That's the oldest joke I could possibly have been. That was a really funny idea. I got you. Congratulations to have dancer, whoever you are.

This one is from Slither Anne from Instagram, it says, "I stepped into the Atlantic Ocean for the first time at age 40. It was amazing." Wow. Yeah?

Let's go do that right now. Um, the Atlantic says a little further. Great way. That's right. Okay, this one, this one's really funny.

This one's from another Colleen, it says, "My hooray is at age 37. I picked up rock tumbling as a hobby." Nice. I bought my seven-year-old a rock tumbling kit for his birthday last summer. He lost interest in the first few days, but I've been hooked ever since.

My husband often gently asked me what I planned to do with all these rocks, and I tell him to mind his own business. Nice. I now have two rock tumblers going at all times. Lots of polish rocks and many more waiting to get their turn.

Which group of rocks takes between five to eight weeks to complete?

Oh, my God, I think that's a highly valuable rock right there.

And with this? Two rock tumblers going? I mean, serious business. Yeah. Answer the question.

Your husband asked a very valid question.

What are you going to do? What are you going to do with all those rocks? This one is from Kendall S from the fancult, and Kendall's just saying, "I took my ten-year-old twins to their first concert, Florence, and the machine."

“That's a huge one for, what was your first concert?”

My first real concert, I always shared the direction I probably would want.

Oh, okay. My first real concert was Chicago at the Cal Palace, so we have six-year-old businessman. And there's just like a freshman, and that's someone's parents got tickets, and I was like, "Sure." Well, let's go see a ten-man band.

“Thank you again to Hyundai for letting us do these honking arrays.”

We'd love them. We'd love them. We'd love to celebrate your stay-sexy. And don't get murdered. Good night.

Elvis, do you want a cookie? Aaaaah! This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our socio-producer is Tessa Hughes. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

This episode was mixed by Lianna Squalacci. Our researchers are Mary McLashon and Ali Alken. And follow the show on Instagram at my favorite murder. Listen to my favorite murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. And now you can watch my favorite murder on Netflix.

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Goodbye.