542 - Dracula Ambitions

This is exactly right. [MUSIC] >> It's Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. The season, we've got some awesome guests ready to throw out advice. Guests like Tiffany Haddish, kind of sliding to people's DMs.

>> I like Bumble, also girl farmers only dot com. >> That states, sales, funerals, options. Are usually good, there's a lot of good men here, grocery stores near GMs. Darcy Cardin, Sherry O'Terry, Ana Ferris, Dave Franco, Madeline Klein. Adam Scott, T.S. Madison and more.

Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] >> Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield, the host of The Girl Friends. I'm back with more one-off interviews with some truly kick ass women on The Girl Friends Spotlight. I'm going to climb it.

>> It's badness, heredit tree. >> Let's see how we can stop killing. >> I'm not too intimidated by her. >> What are you talking about? [MUSIC]

>> Listen to The Girl Friends Spotlight on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] >> I'm Stephanie Young. The hit podcast love trapped is back with new updates in the case of Laura Owens.

>> This is CR 2025 state versus Laura Owens. [MUSIC]

“>> I think she really believes that she still hasn't out.”

>> I'm quite confident that they're up to something.

>> We're following the case live as the criminal charges finally come to a conclusion.

>> Trust us when we tell you as the victims of Laura Owens, she will not stop. >> Listen to love trapped. On the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] [MUSIC]

>> Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. >> That's Georgia Hardster. >> That's Karen Kilgarriff. >> And here we are podcasting once again. >> Here we are.

>> Those are pretty nails. >> I know, there are adults nails that I've somehow put on me. >> Magnetic, they're like gel X, so they're like not my nails. And suddenly I feel like this and dresses, I feel like are the trick to making people think you have your shits together.

>> Yeah, that's right.

“>> Boom, are you now pointing things out like this?”

>> I'm definitely talking with my hands a lot more. >> Important things out. >> But 10, 15 minutes ago I was eating an un-crustable in the car wash. >> Yes. >> Still me, didn't get me on my dress.

>> Not so classy that it changes your deep down. >> Exactly, that's good. >> How are you? >> I'm good, I'm still working on the same manicure I had two weeks ago. >> Try these, gel X, they're gel, and they're like press on, like leave press on nails.

>> Okay. >> And you just suddenly feel like an adult. >> All right. >> I'm not that interested in being an adult though. >> Looking like one, people mistaking you for one, so they treat you differently.

>> Yeah, but I don't, like suddenly I put those on and people are asking me for tax advice. I don't have time like that. >> It's what I think like if I had nice big tits, like it would be like if that's like what girls with nice big tits experience in life, you know, like that news for you. >> What?

>> As someone with medium big tits, come on, it's not that great. >> People give you a little, they're like a little nicer to you.

>> Oh, I mean, I get into restaurants, I get always get a table, and I'm always going

to table these A's. >> What a way to look at the world. >> Yeah. >> I've been ripped off with my small breasts. >> It's the thing of like people who are pretty when they're kids, you're like, you

don't know what real like, like since they've been kids, they've been pretty. >> Yes. >> You don't know what it's like. >> You've never been, people don't treat you the way they treat everyone else.

“>> You've never had somebody turn around and go, oh, you're here, right?”

>> Oh my God. >> Or go, oh, you're here, it's more like that. >> Yeah. Or go, oh, you're here, or go, oh, you're here, oh, you're here, oh, you're here, you're trying to put the accident on the, oh, you're here, it's seen study with Karen and Jordan.

>> And you're here, see, Andrew, okay, I have a true crime podcast, Bone Valley, which wow. >> Okay. >> They just went for that. Where does this take place? >> Hell.

>> But that's the podcast name, and then they have seasons.

The season I just started listening to, I had never heard of it, is season five called The Devil's

Query. The podcast Bone Valley is about wrongful convictions and miscarriage of justice in the US. So the Devil's Query season five is about this 12-year-old girl who was murdered in the 1980s and just the complete fuck-up that happened with this guy going to jail for 20 years, and you know, all the things you hate about that.

But he figures away to get himself out, but then there's the psycho who actually probably

>> And important to tell.

>> Yeah, that's great. >> Highly recommend it. Paul Solitaroth is the host. He was a Rolling Stones contributor. It's just good.

>> Rolling Stones are magazine. The magazine. No, the band. He was in the Rolling Stones. >> You said it, floral.

>> It's not. >> He's a Rolling Stones contributor. He's like, ooh, ah, ooh, ah. >> I couldn't even have told you if it wasn't, right? That's it.

What about you? >> Scraping my brain for anything. >> You don't have to have anything. >> We knew. We talked about nails, talked about tits, we talked about true crime.

>> Yes. >> Which is what ladies care about. >> This is what you've come to expect. >> And now, how to get our bodily autonomy back? >> No.

>> Don't be silly. >> God dammit. >> Okay. Well, let's get into it. Then we have a podcast network called exactly right media.

>> Correct. >> Here are some highlights. >> Explosive diarrhea alert. >> All caps. >> Oh, Jesus.

>> They're doing it. I love it. >> That's right. >> Okay, so we'll kill you. Our experts, Aaron and Aaron, are both doctors and they're putting out an emergency episode to talk about the current cyclospoora outbreak that's right the explosive diarrhea outbreak that is happening across this nation in his real.

“So, Aaron and Aaron break down what's happening, what you need to watch out for, and they list off every single vegetable that you no longer have to eat.”

>> Have to eat. >> The lips that you are not allowed to eat. And then over on dear movies, I love you, Millie and Casey revisit the cult classic Romeo Michelle's high school reunion. I got to watch that again. Plus Casey shares all the highlights from his recent 20th high school reunion. >> Beamed out.

>> Then on disgrace land, Jake tells the story of Dolly parts. >> So good. >> Here how the country icon narrowly avoided becoming the tragic heroin of one of her own murder ballads. >> Oh.

>> And then in March corner, finally, we have some brand new arrivals.

>> Check out the new Call Your Dad collection. >> Oh, pretty goddamn great. >> Look at this T-shirt. >> I love it. >> You're going to call your dad.

>> And then we have a pop socket. >> Pop socket. >> And a sticker. >> Come on. >> You guys.

>> Something for everyone. >> Check that out. >> And we also have the MFM Collegiate Unisex T-shirt. >> Here it is. >> So, I love that.

>> So, it's the red flag. >> Unisex looks like you go to my favorite murder university with a red flag. >> I love that one. So, fucking much. >> It's so cute.

>> What size is that? I'm going to give it to you. >> This here is a medium. >> Amazing.

“>> Those of those are designed by our graphic designer, Vanessa Lylek, who's so talented.”

>> And then also we have, this was our tour. >> It's like the design template kind of. >> Yeah, with the panther. It's really fucking cool. It's designed by Daphna Sabane.

It's inspired by our 2021 tour shirt. So check that out. >> Man, that's so cool. >> Yeah, if you have FOMO for missing out on the tour in any way, you can still get a piece of that art action. >> Yeah, pretty great.

>> Love it. >> Head to the exactly right store.com to shop for our merch. All of our merch now. >> Hey, everyone. It's the Jonas Brothers.

This week on the podcast. Hey, Jonas. We're hanging out with Michael Boubley. >> After Kevin's recent interesting confession about Michael. >> We figured there was only one thing to do.

We must invite Michael Boubley on the podcast. And we want to know what's on his 60-time playlist. >> You know, I didn't interview you. >> And you're like, "Did you heard about this, Jonas?" I just think, "And they're like, "What did you think of it?"

I was like, "Well, I need it for a set." >> We talked about Kevin's confession. Michael's reaction and a whole lot more. >> Our conversation with Michael Boubley is out now. >> Listen to hey, Jonas, on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

>> So this is a very special episode. This is a themed episode. >> Right. >> In honor of our newest limited series, podcast release of Royal Swindle. >> That's right.

>> Royal Swindle is the unbelievable true story of two Aussie con women who charmed British high society. We love a good con. In a tale of greed, lies, and spoiler alert. >> Horses.

>> The first two episodes are available right now, wherever you get your podcast.

Please go check that out. >> And to celebrate the kick off of Royal Swindle, we will now tell each other. >> Scam story. >> Hell yeah. >> We love a scammer.

>> We do, and there's just so many. >> You go first. >> Okay.

“>> Have you heard of Rosalind New York in Long Island?”

>> Long Island. >> Long Island. >> Long Island. >> I've heard of Long Island. >> Okay.

>> So there is a town called Rosalind in New York. >> Long Island, suburb. >> It's on the island's north shore in Nassau County, which you've heard of. >> Pastories that have taken us to Long Island that we've covered have been, of course, the Gilgo Beach Killer and the Ammonieville Horror Story.

>> But both those took place in towns that are on the south shore and farther out on the island. >> Where the vibe is more maritime and maybe a little more blue collar. >> Not today. >> Rosalind is more of a quintessential New York suburb. If you remember the suburban towns in uncut gems and made the walkers or meet the parents,

whatever, that's the kind of place you can picture. So I looked it up, of course, to see what famous people came from Rosalind. >> Oh. >> Michael Crichton. >> Oh.

>> Oh, they're Michael Crichton. >> Okay. >> A man named Arthur, I could stun, who was the author of the South Beach diet.

>> And fashion designer Lily Pulitzer was born in Rosalind, New York. >> Okay, we're getting the sense here.

“>> There's a little bit of carb cutting, some affluence.”

>> There's some ballet slippers that match the little sun dress you're wearing. >> Right, your daughter has the same matching outfit. >> There's a lot of doctors and lawyers, the ones that commute to Manhattan. And there's one major reason New York professionals choose to live in these towns. And that is because they have great public schools.

And these people are obsessive about their children's education. It's something that you and I don't understand except I read it in books about how cut-throat, getting their children into schools and good schools and public good schools. >> Yes, right. >> And in LA, I've had friends that are like the child is a year and a half.

And they're already talking about what kindergarten they will totally totally. And then I just internally followed backwards out of the universe. Same. This is the story of a swindle that rocked one of Long Island's most prestigious school systems. And as it unraveled, it just got bigger and bigger.

It's probably a testament to the quality of the district and it's ambitious.

Students that the story was first broken by a student at this school in the school paper.

>> Yes. >> And it's alumnus later wrote and produced an HBO movie about it called Bad Education, starring Alice and Janie and Hugh Jackman. >> That was based on a true story. >> I'll say it's a bit of a stretch, but there's such great actors, we don't care.

>> You don't care. >> This is the story of the Rosalind School District and Bezelman scandal. The main sources for this story are an article in New York Magazine by Robert Kolker

“and reporting from the New York Times and News Day, which is Long Island's local paper.”

The sources can be found in the show notes and I watched half of Bad Education. But it's like they take liberties. It's not even like retro, but it is a fun little. You know, flick. >> Okay.

>> Says that. >> My one mom. >> It's a fun flick. >> It's a fun flick. How would you know you didn't watch it?

>> I watched all of half of this. How there you are. >> There you are. >> All of that. >> You're big tits for more.

>> Get your big tits out of my face. >> All right. So it's the fall of 2002. Remember that? And the Rosalind School District has been rapidly ascending towards the top of the top public

districts in America for any non-American listeners and people who don't have children and don't. Don't understand this. >> Bonjour. >> Bonjour. >> American public schools are controlled on three levels.

>> Lunchtime. >> Five. >> Recess. >> The first is very loosely by the federal government, which can give or withhold some state funding and create policies that should protect students, constitutional rights and rights to education

or create policies that roll back these rights. Guess which one happens more often. >> Number two. And on the state level, there is much more oversight into the curriculum policies and standards. The state administers standardized tests and funding can be awarded or withheld based on

these scores.

“>> I think it'd be interesting to have a teacher here right now to tell us their opinion.”

It's a bismal.

>> The poor schools just never get the money.

>> No. >> They don't matter what. >> The money that they need the most. >> Yeah. >> There's a whole fucking episode.

>> I'm going to stop and lecture you every time I have the opportunity. >> Great. I barely graduated high school. However, the vast majority of school funding comes from local taxes on a district by district basis. This is why if you look at a list of best performing public school districts in America, they

will without fail be some of the country's richest suburban communities. >> The rich get richer. >> Right. >> The escalator that they're automatically standing on goes all the way to heaven. >> Exactly.

>> And I was educated at one of those two so I can't. >> Did Janet move your there like to be at a good school? >> I didn't let us move to LA before I graduated because it was a good school. Which is like, I appreciate that of her. >> Yeah, that's right.

>> To keep you there so that you could. >> Yeah. >> I probably would have gotten even more trouble if I had non-to-fair facts. >> Yeah. >> Exactly.

>> Oh my god. Can you imagine being in the city? >> I had the most fun. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate that.

>> So good schools drive up home prices too, which I hadn't considered. I think it's obvious sense. Making these communities even more inaccessible over time.

And I didn't look at the redfin like house prices and I didn't see one for under 1.5 million.

>> Wow. >> And some of the higher ones were like 6 million. So it's a fancy area. >> And they're very like, they all look a little sopranosish. >> Yeah.

Kind of a little new. >> New builds. >> A little octagonal, maybe central staircase. >> Lots of tile instead of hardwood. >> Mm-hmm.

>> Right. >> To process me. >> So a large chunk of the credit for the ever improving quality of the Rosalind school district is given to the school superintendent a 10 year veteran of the district in his late 50's named Frank Tasson. And that's who Hugh Jackman plays.

I'll show you a real photo of him actually. >> Oh, there's Frank. He's making a face. >> That's Hugh Jackman's character. >> You can see it.

>> You can see a little Hugh Jackman in there. >> Yeah. >> He looks like a great dancer this man. >> And proud. >> So proud.

>> You know his shoes are nice. >> Look at that. >> How hot that camera man is back here.

>> Yeah. >> He's a little bit like Ryan Gosling. >> He does. >> He's making being the camera man. >> Hey, are you the camera man?

He looks like Ryan Gosling. >> Right in.

“And then that journalist is like, excuse me.”

The camera man's my boyfriend. >> Right. >> That's why we move in tax. >> Sorry. >> Sorry.

>> Sorry, guys. >> Over the years, Frank has spearheaded ambitious project. So he's a really good superintendent. I want to say super Nintendo because in the same sense, I don't want super Nintendo performers.

He's the best super Nintendo. >> Chalmers. >> That anyone does. >> But he is really good. He is spearheaded ambitious projects like elementary school,

foreign language classes and high school community service requirements, which is pretty great. That makes everyone proud of the district.

And the hard stats are always improving too.

Every year, the school's average SAT scores go up. And the list of college acceptances becomes more and more impressive. And Frank spearheads a lot of community outreach, as well involving Rosalind senior citizens in school events to help do old people things.

Tell story is probably. But oftentimes those are plain about children. >> Yes. >> Oftentimes, though, these events happen shortly before the town budget votes. But like he's still doing it.

“Frank is a former English teacher who still gives public lectures on classic literature.”

He is beloved. He's also a flashy dresser. Brooks Brothers suits. >> And he drives a seemed like an incredibly flashy dresser. >> Yeah.

>> He drives a Mercedes. He bakes around 250,000 a year. So that was in 2002. So in today's money, 750? >> 466.

>> Yeah. >> But close.

>> I always could do that.

>> Yeah, I was like, you're never going to believe this. So he makes, you know, 250 a year. But he has no kids. So the fact that he spends a lot of money and has nice things. Seems like it's within his budget.

People don't seem to know a ton about Frank's personal life. He has on his desk an old, tiny wedding photo. Like in the movie, bad education. It looks like it's from the 80s. Maybe of a woman in a wedding dress.

And he says that was his wife who tragically died of cancer many years earlier. He keeps his ring on in the movie. I don't know if it's true. People know he lives in Manhattan in a rent stabilized building. So that's more of a reason for them not to question.

Seems like he's spending a lot. >> For one moment, I was like, I wish this story was about how that building got rent stabilized and like how much it cost and who lives there. Because that idea that in like modern day, even LA or New York, that you had to be grandfathered in at some point.

>> Yeah, right. And you're like, oh, I pay 1,500 for my 3 and 2. >> My old place that we used to record out was like 1250. That's the same. >> God, I know.

>> That's not what the story is. >> Sorry. That's next week. That's your story. >> So other than this one mystery about his private life,

which he doesn't discuss much. Frank is outgoing. He's friendly. This is probably why the school board isn't inclined to follow his lead. In 2002, when it comes out that his assistant superintendents for business,

the person who signs the checks for the district, a woman named Pam Gluckin, has been stealing money from the district. So Allison Janney is who plays her. And here is what she actually looks like. >> Pam, she looks like a woman you'd see in the office of your school.

>> Absolutely. >> A woman who literally those readers are glued to the end of her nose like that.

And she's always rushing around and she always smells like coffee.

>> Yup. >> But she knows everyone's name. She knows everyone's mom's name. >> She's always busy. >> She knows exactly what's going on.

>> She knows everyone's name. >> Yes. >> Exactly. They show that in this movie. So she's well-liked.

She's outgoing. She often jokes about how hard she's working and how late she stays. But it seems like it's true. She is kind of like his right hand and knows everything. And while she makes decent money as a high-up administrator in a wealthy district,

it's maybe a little suspicious with her that she can afford to have three homes. One in Belmore, which is a working class Long Island town. One in Florida and one in the Hamptons. But she also has boats. She takes lavish vacations.

She has fancy cars and nice jewelry. So it's a little more sauce. >> It's just funny to me. >> Maybe it's her husband who makes the money. >> But yeah, she could have had a rich hand.

>> Credit. >> Credit? >> She's just really good at paying off her credit card every night or bad. >> Yeah. >> But my thing is, why can't people just not spend the money just for a little while?

>> Totally. >> Keep it on the low profile. >> Just go to CVS and treat yourself once a month. >> Listen to us, tell you how to cheat. >> Like I knew when I was 19, if I stole clothes from a Melrose clothing store,

I was working at. >> Don't wear them to work. >> Yes. >> And pick your one thing and then go for three years. But at least cover your tracks in some way.

But that I do. It's like, hey, you want to go try my ski do? Let's go out this day. >> Right. >> Right.

“>> Remember I'm having a party at my hampen's house?”

>> Disclaimer. I never stole any clothes from the Melrose. >> Disclaimer. I never stole $20 from my cafe job and justified it by saying everyone's mean to me. >> Never happened.

>> Yeah. >> And statute of limitations.

>> Yeah. >> It didn't happen. >> Yeah. It's a little suspicious.

“Because a lot of Rosalind families have homes in other locations.”

They have mask questions. That said, it's still a shock to everyone when the board realizes that Pam has been using a district credit card to make personal purchases. >> Trackable. >> So, trackable. But she's the one who does the tracking or like the proofing.

>> Yeah. >> So, two sets of eyes.

>> It seems like I'm sure she started slow and then she was never going to get caught and just kind of went.

>> You're all in at that point. Whether for $10 or a million dollars, you're going to get fired and get caught. >> Right. >> So, you might as well do the annoying. >> So, then you're like, we're going on vacation.

>> Totally. >> That just makes me think of the early days when you and I were sharing like American Express cards. >> Yeah. >> And then if I would do the thing we're suddenly I don't have my card on me and I would just text you and be like. >> I just bought $80 worth of lip liner at CVS.

>> Yeah. >> Just so you know. >> Yeah. >> Before when we were still handling it. >> I know.

>> I believe you every time. >> Well, it's true. >> I know.

“>> That's why I'm a good thing I believe you.”

>> I know it is. >> There'd be like a six. >> You'd call it tax me. >> I just spent 625 at Chipotle and I didn't have my card so I used our card. >> Yeah.

>> Like, okay. >> You don't have to pay it back. >> I know.

>> But it's also that kind of thing where I think that at least we always have that.

>> Yeah. >> Where it's just like, you're not going to steal money. >> No, totally. >> That's not how you are. >> Sometimes the big reveal.

>> Actually. >> Wait, I do owe you. >> Didn't you give me $100 in cash one time recently? >> I gave you $20 because I didn't have a five and said you have probably done this for me many times in the past where even. >> So we're even.

>> We're absolutely even. >> You heard it here, folks. >> That is provable. >> Okay. >> District credit card.

>> One of those credit card purchases finally raises the alarm because someone used it to buy a bunch of renovations supplies at a few home depots around Long Island outside of Rosaline. The clerk, okay, here's the snitch clerk at a home depot in a town called Selden which is about 35 miles east of Rosaline. >> And everyone knows everyone in Long Island it seems like you're not going to get away with shit. >> People know whose kids you are, people know whose cousin you are, like where you're supposed to be where you're not supposed to be.

>> Oh, yeah.

“>> You remember Vicky Ernst, one of the producers on our TV show?”

>> Yeah. >> Vicky's from Long Island. >> And she knows every single person in a block, and anytime she sees anybody like it's about community. >> Right. >> Gossip, good, bad, everything.

>> You're in it. >> Yeah. >> You're in it for life.

>> So basically the snitch, I'm not putting him down.

Good for him. >> This person. >> This person. >> No columns, snitch. >> I don't know.

>> You're right. >> He recognized the person who is using the credit card as Pam Sun. >> Mm-hm. >> And she's like, that's weird. It's a contractor, but why was he buying supplies for the Rosalind school districts on their card?

But not the Home Depot and Rosalind in a different town. And why did those supplies get delivered to a home in the Hampton's and not to the Rosalind school? >> Red Flag, yeah. >> Red Flag, yeah. >> And like the sun's being lazy at this point in the movie.

She like beats the shit out of him, but during that, it's very healthy. >> She's so good. >> She's so good. >> So this cleric contacts the school board and tells them what happened. When the school's auditor finishes his work just looking into it, he finds that $250,000

have been stolen. And today's money, 250, and this was 2003, 2002, 2002. >> You want to know how much the other one was? >> Oh, it was the same amount. >> It was the same amount.

>> Oh, 450. >> 466. >> Okay. >> So today's money about 466. The board convenes in a meeting with Frank or Guy to figure out the next steps.

They're all just so pissed off and upset. And he surprises all of them by saying we shouldn't turn her in. We shouldn't go to the DA. We shouldn't press charges. Let's not raise the alarms.

Instead, let's let her resign quietly and will inform the state licensing board so they revoke her school administration licenses. He doesn't want to totally throw the book at her. He points out that if Pam is prosecuted, the district will have to keep paying her until the case is settled and possibly more importantly, it will make the district look

really bad when it becomes a huge news story. It will make the school budget harder to pass. But if she resigns and promises to pay back the money, the district will take less of a financial hit or really know hit at all if she pays it back. Basically, they want to avoid scandal.

They look really good. They also were like if colleges see Rosalind school district on applications and know that it is like a tarnished school, it's going to affect that. Yeah. And they don't want that to happen.

They've worked so hard. It's only $250,000. Let's let her go. Yeah. Makes sense.

I mean, in that is the kind of definition these days feels like of corruption in that way because that's exactly what happened with Dr. Death. Where it's like, we can't. The insurance won't bring this against these doctors because it's so small and it ends

career vendor or reputation.

“You don't have hurting and killing people would be the limit.”

But guess what? It's not ever. It's not money. It's money. So the board takes Frank up on this idea and pay him plays ball and she goes quietly.

About a year and a half past without incident. And in that time period, Rosalind has been ranked by Wall Street Journal as the sixth best school district in the nation, which in today's best school districts in the school district. And then we do exactly.

And the parents school board in administration. They're so thrilled about this. Basically, like print can't do anything wrong to them. Every Rosalind homeowner is also thrilled since more demand for it. The school system means higher home prices.

Everyone's happy with him. It's all frothing. But the camera cuts back to that wedding picture on his desk. Right for me. Right.

Then it all comes crashing down. The anonymous letter is sent to the members of the school board. Some school administrators, the district attorney and several local newspapers.

So we never find out who's on this letter.

But they sent it to everybody. Everybody. It claims that Pam and Glocken had stolen much more than $250,000 that the school's auditor had initially reported, which some of these people didn't know about that at all. And that Frank both knew about it and had embezzled funds himself.

The letter says, quote, We believe that Dr. Frank Tucson participated in this investment scandal. So as to support his lavish lifestyle with the help of Miss Glocken, he submitted his personal credit card statements, bills for personal vacations and trips and various household bills and included them in the coverup and quote.

Just realized they don't have my glasses on. There. Now, now you can read. You're like, the sinking of the Titanic. Oh, man.

This is blank. I'm Stephanie Young. The hit podcast Love Trap is back with new updates in the case of Laura Owens. This is CR 2025 state versus Laura Owens.

“I think she really believes that she still hasn't out.”

I'm quite confident that they're up to something. We're following the case live as the criminal charges finally come to a conclusion. Trust us when we tell you as the victims of Laura Owens, she will not stop. Listen to Love Trap on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.

Her husband Mike was on his laptop. But was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately, the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe.

That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to Patreils season 5 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everyone, it's the Jonas Brothers. If you haven't heard, our new podcast is called Hey Jonas.

And this week, we're hanging out with someone we're really big fans of. Millie, Bobby Brown.

We talk about her new movie and all the home's three family life and all the amazing things she has going on right now.

Plus, we find out what she really feels about the strangest things in it. You have over 60 animals. I don't know whether number 60 and I've really got to figure that out. There have been plenty of sheep in my bed. Yeah, I like it.

Literally sleeping in the bed. Listen to hey Jonas on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So it gets sent to all these people. But Frank gets a lucky break because one of the letters is returned to sender. But for some reason, whoever sent the letter used the district office as its return address.

So he got a hold of a copy of it. Meaning I wonder, it's probably someone in that school who sent it in the first place. Right? Yeah, I can teach her or someone else in the office. Right.

Because they would need to maybe access that mail slot if there was mail back. Right. Like why would they put it back there? Exactly. So it winds up on Frank's desk.

He freaks out, launches into a print of strike. He calls him meeting with the representatives from every part of the school staff and the PTA to present the letter and say that the allegations are not true. But that he's going to call back the auditor to go through the finances and clear it all up. It's going to look through every single little thing.

That first people go along with this and praise him for being so forthcoming.

But at the end of the month an editor for the school newspaper. So a student this senior girl. Yes. Name Rebecca Rambam. Which is like I can use that name in good health.

It's so cool. She gets a copy of the letter somehow and writes an article in the school paper about it. This is one of, she's like, yeah, sitting down. Yeah. I mean, and I looked her up and I'm like, she better be like a famous journalist now.

And I don't know.

“She might remember for a school district.”

I can't tell what she does. But she lays low. She's a genius in just out there amongst the people. Yeah. It runs in the paper's March issue.

In the article, she gets a quote from Frank explaining why he didn't come forward with the allegations.

She's fucking going for it. She's just got him on the record. Yeah. And she was wearing a wire when she asked those questions. Right.

“I think their reputation at the school district was at stake.”

And that's why I didn't come forward. Rebecca later writes in the New York Times that the student response to the article was underwhelming. Of course it is. They don't give a shit about the school paper. Did you ever read your school paper?

We didn't have one. But yes, you did. You just didn't know. It was no one was aware. But also just that kind of thing of like,

to have lived as the girl that always thought she was doing like justice and like fighting the good fight.

Yeah. And then turning around and no one's ever behind you. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds right.

Yeah. She says, quote, during school that day, I watched for reactions to the story. But the students as a whole were not as receptive as I had expected. We don't have formal circulation numbers. But by the number of papers still lying around school at the end of the day,

I would say that our April Fool's Day issue was much more widely read. Because the kids are going to shit about it fucking. They see a bezel-met and they're like, that's a don't problem. Totally. That's like we don't balance the budget.

Yeah. My day is going fine.

“But I think if we had written the headline more of like,”

"You still want that pizza shape like a square?" Well, guess what? The embezzlement issue is taken it away from you. That's right. And this is no April Fool's.

There was interest, however, at the next Board of Education meeting, because at least a few issues of that newspaper had made it home to parents. So the parents were interested in the embezzlement issue. Oh, it turns around. It's Walter Cronkite is reading this student newspaper.

Yeah. He's the dad. Go. It's only after this meeting with the Board of Education. And after Rebecca's article that news day, Long Island's local paper picks up the story.

And that's when everything starts to fall apart for, Frank. Over the next few months, the DA, the schools administration, and news day are all combing through the schools expenses and running every last receipt down. And very quickly, two things become apparent.

Pam had stolen far more than $250,000. And there's just no denying that Frank had also stolen money. Yeah. And was involved. Investigators find multiple kinds of questionable expenses.

There are real payments to vendors. But the amounts these vendors were build and received is far less than had been documented. Meaning they're like, "We've paid this vendor $500."

“And the vendors like, "We only asked for $200.”

We only got $200. You know what I mean?" Yep. Boop, pocket the rest. Beep.

Let's go to Red Lobster. Exactly.

There are a lot of items that have never been questioned before.

But now look very suspicious once they start actually looking. The district head paid for two trips to London. Okay. And here's what we were talking about. Like, be chill and don't be flashy.

On the Concord. Just that first class. First class is amazing. It's amazing. Plain old.

One tramp on the same length expensive. Yeah. One trip on the Concord for it was 20 grand. And another was 30 grand. Bro?

Because she had to get their fast. I think it's him. Oh. That's what he did. Yeah.

Like play a lot. Don't know. Have you never been to Las Vegas? If you'd never like. And the district head paid for multiple trips to Las Vegas.

Awesome. Good job. Some for actual conferences. And some seemingly just for fun. And he'd like to bring a bunch of the school board members.

So I don't think we're aware of what was happening. He had used over $56,000 in school money to pay for treatments at a Manhattan weight loss clinic. Oh. Just don't do that. Not when the South Beach diets right there.

Really. In today's money. $56,000. A little more would have been more than $300,000. $300,000.

Someday we're going to get it again. Some of the 10 years we're both going to do it again. Well, this is going on. Frank just keeps going out of town while they're looking into it. He's just like, I'm out this week.

I'm out this week. I'm out this week. He's been spraying my ankle. Exactly. I sprayed my everything.

He spends March and April going to Las Vegas Puerto Rico. Then California Florida and Vegas again. Every time a new weird charge is found, Frank isn't around to explain or discuss it. Yeah. Then there are sketchy charges from companies that appear to not exist or be very, very sketchy.

So in early June, a school administrator realizes that over the years, the school has paid close to $800,000 to a company called Word Power, which reports to make pamphlets. So 800,000 on those real good pamphlets, though. Then I stalk real shiniens like, yeah, yeah, those ones.

In today's money, that would be $1.5 million.

This is a lot of money for pamphlets. Scamplets. That's right. Sorry. This latte is not helping me at all.

This coke that I'm drinking that I'm snorting. But the weirder thing is that the company is headquartered. This pamphlet company is headquartered from an apartment in Manhattan. Frank's address. The company's CEO is listed as a man named Stephen Sineorelli.

And it becomes clear over the course of the investigation that he and Frank live together. At the same time, and right around the same point in the investigations, investigators noticed that Frank had purchased a house in Las Vegas with another man.

Investigators also noticed that Frank had sent an multiple FedEx shipments on the district's account, meaning like he just went and printed up the FedEx. Which we've all saw on a Spock and Snap or two from work. The FedEx account at work is the place where you can get a little liver. You can get some liberties because it's already going out.

So it business. But now they know what address it was sent to. Yeah, if you hadn't done that, they wouldn't have been able to track the address.

“And didn't they use the money to buy the house in Vegas?”

I don't know about that, but probably like it's all in the mix. Yeah, exactly. So he sent multiple FedEx shipments to this address in Las Vegas.

It's never uncovered what was in these shipments.

God, I wish I could see. Seems like they're working there, Paul. This is that it might have been just cash. Just a ton of posting of cash. And he's like, in the movie, it's not true.

But they show the younger man as an ex student of Frank's, who's also an exotic dancer. I think that part was corrected some point, but it's not true. So he could have been like laundering cash. Las Vegas, there's no better place.

Yes, everyone just remember that. And the idea that you just like fill up a box with some ban. Totally. Go for it. Totally.

So now it's apparent that Frank has been in romantic relationships with men. That's the thing that he had been keeping from everyone. And Roslan's a pretty liberal town.

“So people are mostly a little sad that Frank felt that he had to hide a sexuality.”

But at the same time, it's 2004. And a high-ranking openly gay school administrator is not common. And I'm sure some parents would have clutch their pearls. Oh yeah, Frank will later say that he and Stephen his partner who lives at his Manhattan House had an open relationship. Stephen knew about the other man in Las Vegas.

Like he wasn't being deceitful in that sense. Do you believe that? I do. Yeah. Why not?

I don't know. I don't hate him. I agree. Right. He made some really stupid decisions and trapped himself.

And we've all made stupid decisions and luckily gotten away with a lot of them. Yeah. I mean, it would be a much more infuriating story if he was stealing from kids from low income areas. But it's just like you're basically skimming the cream off of the cream of the crowd. You know, in the kind of hint at this in the show where you know like all the parents of the students that he's helping to succeed.

And their lives and get into good college and have good careers and get paid well are making so much fucking money. They have so much money. Yeah. Meanwhile, he's being paid 250 a year and eventually that doesn't seem like it's fair to him. Right. So he just starts skimming, starts taking a little of words like they wouldn't even miss it because they're so fucking wealthy.

Like I get how that mindset could happen to someone. Yeah.

“Well, it's easy to rationalize things like that because all you have to do is say I'm being ripped off and then you can do kind of anything.”

Right. It's a how dare you. That rationalizes it and then suddenly. How dare you build you a bridge to free money and lots of things. Amen.

Amen. So when all these revelations finally come out in early June of 2004, Frank resigns, when all is said and done it appears that between Frank and Pam, there's like six people total who end up kind of being implicated in this, including Frank and Pam,

around $11.2 million has been stolen from the school districts.

And today's money, 11.2, I'm going to go ahead and stick that right into the area of 185,000. 20 million. You just went the wrong way. You just went down. I had to say as I was talking, I started to panic and I forgot what the base number was.

20 million. Yeah. I don't know. There's so much pressure. I know I hate it.

I hate it, but we got to give them what they love. We got to this is what people come here for. That's right. So almost 20 million. Fuck.

They just fucking went for it. And my sister has to buy crayons every year herself. Right. Exactly. Yeah.

And this makes it the largest investment from a school district in American history. So if you're going to go big kids, go to Vegas. In all, six people, including a son and a niece of Pam Glocken and the domestic partner of Frank to son, played guilty in connection with the thefts from the Rosalind schools, they're actually the maximum they could have received was 15 to 20 years for that.

God.

But in 2006, Frank Coupley's guilty to stealing about 2.2 million is sentenced to four to 12 years in prison.

He's released for a good behavior in 2010. Due to a loophole in the New York State pension law, he still collects 173,495 dollars and four cents a year. Holy shit. So he basically is still fully employed with a great job. And hopefully still his rent control department.

Oh, dude. And he'll get that money for the rest of his life. Loophole. He does repay the district the entire 2.2 million. Oh, wow.

Yeah. Which you know, it's more than that though. There's no way they got it that close.

Yeah, yeah.

“All the money that they couldn't track down.”

I'm sure it's millions and millions more.

Pam, Glocken admits to stealing 4.3 million and is sentenced to 3 to 9 years in prison.

She ends up serving five. As of 2011, she had repaid about half the money she had stolen. I can't track her down at all. I saw one article that said she passed away in 2017. Another that she worked in Manhattan somewhere.

If she still alive, she'd probably paid back more since 2011. But I can't track her down. And the year since all over Long Island school districts have had a much harder time getting residents to pass their budgets. Not surprisingly. Well, towns used to faithfully vote, yes, on school budgets year after year.

Voters have been less likely to do so in the aftermath of the scandal. After all, the school district now seems to do just fine using significantly less than its allotted funds. So someone not skimming off the top. They don't need as much money. Yeah.

And they're calling it the Rosalina effect. Well, and also can't we just take that and put it back down into where it is truly and desperately needed. Right. You'd hope one would.

The author of the anonymous letter that led to Frank's undoing has never been identified.

And that is the story of the Rosalina school in Besselman scandal. Wow. Well done. Thank you. Yeah, I've never heard of that.

I never saw that education. I just really the idea of just like when you get away with something a little bit. And then you keep going to the point where you're handing out cards and doing all those things. Yeah, multiple members of her family had like Annex or whatever cards. It's just you're living in a fantasy world.

Totally. And then it ends totally.

“If you want to watch Hugh Jackman make out with a really cute twink.”

Definitely watch that education. In the middle of the night. Sasuke woke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. But was on his screen would change Sasuke's life forever. I said I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.

And immediately the mask came off. You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband. Listen to betrayal season five on the iHeart Radio app.

Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, it's me Anna Sinfield from the girlfriends. The number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the centre of their own stories. I'm back with more one of interviews with some truly kick ass women on the girlfriends spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia.

I'm going to climb it. And then there's Versaqa. Let's see how we can stop killing and see if slaves. Layler dare to ask the question. His badness hereditary.

And finally will meet Rosamund. If it wasn't for the air where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that fatal night.

You'll even get to meet my mom in that one who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground.

I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about? Listen to the girlfriend spotlight on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. [Music]

Hi, I'm Chris Fairbake. And I'm Karen Cogarif. We host you need a ride. The mobile comedy podcast that answers the question.

“What does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?”

Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest. Maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and art dreams. Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot. I want to become an influencer of divorce moms whose kids have gone off to call it to. The truth decided they're going to start living life for themselves.

Or the time Baron Von got distracted by the majestic scenery. Then there's a freaking deer right there in the side of the road. Holy shit! Eating freaking goat grass. Road I wish you said glass.

New episodes drop every Monday on the exactly right network. Listen to do you need a ride on the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. You're welcome.

Okay, so mine begins in 1902. Oh, you know when that was 1902. Turn it century out. And in New York City. Oh, so it's the guilty age.

There's a well-dressed woman in her forties sitting in the lobby of a luxury hotel in Manhattan. She scans the Ritzie crowd until she sees the man she's looking for. He's a lawyer and also a dear friend of her husband from back home in Cleveland, Ohio. His name is James Dylan. The woman pretends she doesn't see James sitting there alone.

But as she walks past him, she brushes up against his arm. He looks up. He's pleasantly surprised by seeing a familiar face. Oh, it's the lady from back home. My friend's wife.

He asks her what she's doing in New York.

And she cannot speak anymore on the topic. Please.

“But yes, you may not ask many more questions, but can I have a ride in your carriage to my father's house?”

Okay. So he was like, of course, they set off in his carriage and they arrive at a towering fifth avenue mansion. James watches as she hops out of the carriage, knocks on the mansion's front door and goes inside.

He's shocked, of course, that woman's husband has never lit on that his wife comes from so much money.

So he waits there for her, which may be laugh when I realized that was what was happening. So she goes in does her business. When she comes back out about a half an hour later, she's carrying a large envelope under her arm. She gets back into the carriage. She reminds James, this is a private family matter, and she cannot tell him anything that's going on.

Got it, touch. I can't show you what's in this envelope. I didn't ask. But then she lets it slip. Okay, she suddenly says, listen, the reason I'm here on this family business is because I am the illegitimate daughter of steel magnate Andrew Carnegie.

Oh, shit. And I've just gone into his house and collected this envelope, which is all the paperwork proving that he has given me a small fortune. Take a little peeky poo at this. Calm down. And she shows him.

Okay.

“And of course, James is shocked, but he totally buys it.”

And he's not the only one who does.

The story this woman will tell about this inheritance and who she is. It's so convincing that she fools almost everyone around her. And it enables her to live like an arrest for years and years. She's the embodiment of the very guilty age value that appearances are everything. She's one of the America's most prolific con artists known best by her alias Cassie Chadwick.

This is the story of Elizabeth Bigley, the Queen of Ohio. How are you? The sources used for today's story were the book The Imposter Aris by Annie Reed and a 2012 Smithsonian magazine article by Abbott Kaler entitled The High Priestess of Fraudulent Finance. And the rest are in our show notes. So this all begins in 1857 in Ontario, Canada, with the birth of a little girl named Elizabeth Bigley.

She comes from a hardworking salt of the earth household in a very small town in Ontario. Her father works for the railroad, her mother's a homemaker for the family's eight children. And according to writer Annie Reed, quote, "The Bigley's passed without much comment in their quiet corner of Ontario until Elizabeth came along." Oh, shit.

And what's this? She's doing this. She's got the last overhead. Yeah. Even as a little girl, Elizabeth becomes known for getting fixated on things, particularly the very pretty dresses in jewelry.

Then she sees the ladies in townwear. Yeah. And over time, those fixations become obsessions. Elizabeth will do anything she can to get what she wants. When she's 21 years old, she goes into a local barber shop.

She asks to have all of her hair cut off and then to have a fake mustache made of that hair. So then journalist Annie Reed writes, quote, "A Elizabeth walked out of the shop, a mustache-she-o-d-young man."

“It had become obvious to her that the way to get what she wanted was money and the best way to get money was to be a man and quote.”

Sure. Right? So that same day, Elizabeth, with her short hair and her mustache, takes a watch. She'd recently pilfered off an unsuspecting man down to the local pawn shop, where she attempts to pawn it, under an invented male name.

But her disguise isn't convincing enough.

Fake mustache is, it's never going to look legit.

It's just like weird and sitting there. And also it's like her first date trying to do this essentially. The clerk immediately calls the police. They take her into custody. Elizabeth is eventually her father has to go down and get her from the police station.

And they take a long walk of shame home together with her still wearing her little mustache and dress like a man. And legally, it seems she only gets a slap on the wrist for this though. Do you have pictures of her? Yes. So here's Elizabeth in the classic turn of the century portrait sense.

Okay, cute. That's the name she later is known by, which is Cassie L. Chadwick. You know when someone has a middle initial like that. That they use it regularly, that what about them? They're a fraudster.

Okay. For sure. They're trying to pass a bad check onto you. Okay. So a few months after all of this happens, Elizabeth walks into a general store and grabs a bunch of stuff.

She grabs combs and ribbons and fabrics. Anything she can get her hands on. She takes it all up to the clerk. The clerk tells her it's going to be about $250. And Elizabeth goes to her purse and hands the man a card identifying her as, quote,

an eras to $18,000. You can just make a card that says.

It's like sending your kid to the market with cigarettes. My mom says I can have this. My mom says I'm worth $18,000.

“80 of mine selling my son back of Marble Wright.”

So basically her quoting that she is nearest to $18,000.

In today's money would mean how much money she's going to get. 236. It's a little bit higher. 331. It's 600,000.

Holy shit. In today's money. Wow. The assumption here, Marin is pointing this out, that the $250 is already scaled to today's money because if she wasn't did that.

And it was $250 in turn of the century money. That would be right. She would have bought $8,000 worth of stuff. Right. Which like hard to do.

Yeah. So don't think it's that. Okay. But anyway, after she explains her inheritance is gummed up in the legal system at the moment. And she doesn't have access to it right now.

But she's going to, she would like to pay with a promissory note. And that's basically a formal IOU. She hands a promissory note over that appears to be signed by a wealthy farmer from the area. It's unclear how much this is worth, but it's more than the $250 bill that she's just wrong up.

Okay. And of course, as you may have suspected, this promissory note is fake. Elizabeth created the card out of high-end card stock. Opted for a tasteful typeface and forged the signature of that farmer that is on it. Okay.

There is no $18,000 inheritance. I'm sorry to tell you. I know. I hate to be the one.

That basically is the quote that's meant to ease the clerks mind convincing.

She's good for the money. This is an era where it would not be unusual to accept a promissory note as payment and give the difference back to the customer. Kind of like caching someone's check.

“And that's the scam and that's what this clerk does.”

And by the time he actually tries to cache the promissory note, either they're not sure either down at the bank or directly with the farmer that his name is on it. Elizabeth has long gone and all her ribbons and coms are gone to. It's giving me a paper moon vibes. Yes, exactly. Just hold yourself over until you get out of town.

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I gotta see that movie again. That's one of my favorite movies of all time. So she gets away with it, and of course, then is emboldened to try it again in nearby towns.

But just one year later in 1879, she's 22 years old. She gets caught. She gets arrested. And when this case goes to trial, the jury seems very sympathetic. So this is that kind of thing where it's just like she looked right.

She sounded right. She was a charmer. She was probably a sociopath. Yeah. She was good at doing this and calling it.

It's a secretful. Yeah. Good for no. Well, it's just that she had the charm, which is something I like. Yeah.

She clearly told people stories either. They wanted to hear it. She was good at doing it. Right.

“And there is a kind of magnetism to those people.”

And sometimes the stories that like made the other person feel good about themselves. Yeah. In a way that made him not question. I can't tell anyone. I'm going to tell you.

Right. Like all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So the jury's on her side.

They see her as troubled, basically, but not a hardened criminal.

So in the end, she's found not guilty by reason of insanity. And she's released back to her parents. Wow. They're like crazy. Get the fuck out of here.

Just go home. Hey, you crazy bitch. Right. This is fun. You crazy bitch.

It's not your birthday for a month. Stop it. So now it's the early 1880s. Elizabeth is in her mid 20s. And she decides she's getting out of Canada for Cleveland, Ohio.

Sure. You know, glamorous Cleveland, Ohio. Next step up out of Ontario. Straight to Cleveland. And her older sister Alice lives in Cleveland with her wealthy business man husband.

And his name is Standish Milton, York. Wow. So she gets to move right into that house. They live in an affluent part of town. The house is gorgeously decorated.

There's expensive furniture and decor everywhere. Elizabeth basically gets set up for a new life. And she is supposed to be there working toward an honest living and starting over. But that's not our girl. That's not what Elizabeth does.

She starts using fake names to take out loans on her sister's belongings. Oh, she can't. She can't. She can't. She can't stop.

She can't help herself. She's a swimmer. True swimmer. Yeah. A swimmer's list.

A swimmer's list. (laughs) Though. No. Maybe.

When lenders show up at the apartment demanding the payment. Elizabeth leaves. Girl. Oh. Elizabeth leaves town.

And she leaves her sister high and dry. That's shitty. Alice and Standish have to pick up the pieces after she basically sells their house. Out from under the house. Oh, my god.

Don't burn the bridges that you're already on that are closest to you that are stable. Burn. Other bridges. And they got one. These types of people love the close burns.

Because that's where all like they that's where all the excitement is. Are they going to find out that we're sitting at a dining room table. I already sold. Oh, my god. Okay.

So she's now on the streets running away in need of cash.

Not everybody, of course, but some. And that is the art of fortune telling. Oh.

“She builds herself as a clairvoyant named Madem Le Devare or Devere.”

And she begins to steadily attract a middle class clientele. In her day to day life, she calls herself Lydia Bigley. She tells people she's an Irish ares, which that's a contradiction in terms, right there. Unless it's Guinness, there's no fucking way. But this is the identity she's using in 1882.

When she visits a local doctor named Wallace Springstein, who like most people, finds her incredibly charming. We don't know how oldie is. What we do know is he was a civil war veteran, which would put him, marines as her hunches.

He's in his early 40s, while Elizabeth is still in her mid 20s. Okay. Dr. Springstein, undeterred by the fact that she's much younger and a patient of his, begins to pursue Elizabeth, who's now going by Lydia, the fortune teller. The two have a whirlwind romance because, of course, every early 20 year old,

loves an old doctor to just hang out with, well, he sweep them off their feet. But don't hurt your back. No, not easy. Yeah. Watch out for the doubt.

She manages to conceal her dark past until the ink is dry on their marriage certificate. But then she makes one very sloppy move, and that is agreeing to have a wedding announcement.

They always want the credit.

Okay. And it's complete with a photograph. Oh.

“And it's published in the Cleveland Plain dealer.”

Okay. And now all the lenders that know Elizabeth's face, that she scammed in the past, and evaded including her furious sister Alice. Yeah. They all come out of the woodwork right to the Springstein's door,

demanding the doctor pay off his wife's debt. So many rookie mistakes started with not leaving Cleveland. Yeah. You can't have all of it. You can't be there as the proud young couple.

Right. And get away with all the scams. So weird that she would do that. Yeah. So of course finding out about his wife's debts,

stuns Dr. Springstein, he immediately files for divorce. The relationship is over 12 days after the wedding. Oh, he went for it. Yeah. He has to pay her debt.

As her husband, he is responsible. Yes. And to the point where he actually writes a notice for a Cleveland area newspaper saying, "I hereby forbid any person from trusting or harboring my wife, as I will pay no bills of her contracting after this date."

Wow.

“So it's so bad he has to go to the press and be like no more.”

Yeah. Holy shit. We don't have the amount.

But it's basically that period of time.

Yeah. She can really turn it up. Yeah. Once she wants to. So basically, him publishing this letter,

cancels Elizabeth's ability to swindle people in the Cleveland area. So she picks up and heads over to Yuri Pennsylvania, a place you love. She moves into a boarding house under the name "Maisy Bagley." And she's the last name, girl. I know you're attached to it.

But like, "Bigly is the real name." Yeah. So she's just doing little things here and there. Okay. Still.

And soon after she arrives, as Maisy, she starts hanging out in common spaces in this place where she got her apartment or her room. And starts coughing and hacking uncontrollably. Sometimes so violently that she coughs up blood.

What's happening is that she tells the boarders she's very sick. She's in need of immediate medical care and needs to go back home to Cleveland. Everyone's so concerned with her that they pull their money. And these are just people renting rooms. And they buy her the ticket to get back to Cleveland.

So she can get that. It's a vintage kickstarter. Exactly. What are they called? It's a vintage kickstarter from a person who is not coughing up blood.

Which she's doing is going to her room and picking at her gums. Shut up until when she coughs blood comes out. Because she basically like picks out her gums. I mean, it's smart. That is convincing.

Like, how can she be lying? There's blood. Yes. And also get her the fuck out of here. Yes.

Yes. She has consumption. So she can make us all sick. So they do that. And then she's like on the train.

Thanks so much. I'll pay you back when I get home. She's waving her bloody anchor chief at them. Goodbye. Bye.

Two weeks later, a letter comes to the boarding house with the shocking and sudden news that Macy is dead. So say goodbye to that 25 cents. Yeah. Broke you.

For the next few years, Elizabeth Layslow and sticks around Cleveland, presuming work is a fortune teller now under the name Madame Le Roe's.

She's always changing it.

She marries one of her regular clients. Great idea. They quickly divorce. In the late 1880s, she marries for a third time to another client.

What does she go? I see you marrying a fortune teller who's sitting in front of you. Mm-hmm. And then she just starts doing all the shoulder work. Yeah.

Her third husband that's also a client dies not long after they get married.

Okay.

She takes up money and she does what you and or I would do.

She moves to Toledo. Adopting the excellent fake name, Florida Blive. Okay. And Florida continues her fortune telling work into Toledo.

“She forges a particularly important relationship with a client named Joseph Lamb.”

And later a reporter named Abbott Kaler will write quote, Joseph seemed willing to do any favor that she asked. He along with numerous other victims would later claim that she had hypnotic powers. A popular concept at the turn of the 20th century. People believed that hypnotism was an acceptable explanation for adultery,

runaway teenagers, and the increasingly common occurrence of young shop girls fleeing with strange men they met on trains and clothes. Yeah. I wish I were sure that would be fun. Just being able to hypnotize.

Yeah. Come on this train with me. Among the favors that Elizabeth asks of Joseph are that he cashs some of her world famous promissory notes down at the bank. And again, these look totally legit.

They have signatures from Cleveland businessmen.

They're printed on the nice cardstock. They're totally fake. And Joseph is able to cash them anyway. So Elizabeth ends up with this round of fake promissory notes, making around 40 grand in today's money.

I'm going to go 826. 1.5 million. Yeah. The bank quickly catches on that the notes are fake. The tour caught.

But the authorities know it's Elizabeth that's behind all of this. She's convicted on four jury charges and sentenced to nine and a half years in prison. But even behind bars, Elizabeth continues to claim she's a clairvoyant. When she does a reading for the warden, she tells him that he's a going to lose thousands of dollars in a bad business deal and be he's going to die of cancer.

I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. But it's actually so daring of her to be like, and you're going to die of cancer. Both of those things happen. No, because of her, though.

Yeah. She wills them to happen. No, no, no. She just kind like there's people who think she actually was maybe a real clairvoyant.

“And that's why she went into that business.”

Oh, maybe there's some truth to that. Either way, that gives her a little more credence. Yeah. And she's also spending her time writing letters, lobbying for her parole, and citing her good behavior while she's been incarcerated.

Somehow her powers of persuasion secure her release in 1893, only a few years into her prison term. She hypnotizes the parole board somehow. Yeah, she hypnotizes the then governor William McKinley, who will go on to serve as our 25th president.

Or I do that. If I'm in a forest. Now she's 36 years old. She's out of prison. She's heading back to Cleveland.

Yeah. And she adopts the new name, Cassie Hoover. She quickly finds a fourth husband. He's also a doctor. He's much older than the last one.

He's recently widowed. He's very rich. And his name is Leroy Chadwick. Oh, let's take a look. We have a picture of Dr. Leroy Chadwick. Okay.

Look at him. He's a little sleepy. He's a little sleepy.

“So tired of his life lying all the time.”

He's got her mustache on. That'd be amazing. She made herself a big old bushy mustache. Yeah. Okay.

That's what he loves her for. So his friends are stunned when he shows up with a new wife, because she seems to have appeared out of mid-air or thin air. Um, mid-air. She came in a balloon.

She started up high. What? That's why they're blushing. It's crazy. Crazy.

He doesn't want to talk to his friends about how he met Cassie. Sure.

That's always a good sign.

That's always great. We are like, how do you guys meet? Don't want to discuss. Look at my envelope. Can you give me a ride to my dad's house?

He just has the explanation, the simple explanation, that she helped comfort the symptoms of his rheumatism by giving him therapeutic back massages. No big deal. No big deal.

No big deal. Sovens and I met. Just constant. Um, naturally rumors spread. They met in a brothel.

Oh. And that she was the madam. Oh, good for her. Right. Cassie, aka Elizabeth, does not give a shit,

because she has just married into serious wealth. Her neighbors now include a Rockefeller, a US senator, and other rich elites. Wow. And she now gets to spend her husband's money with abandoned.

So while living as Cassie, Elizabeth buys piles of clothes and jewels. She actually buys a $9,000 pipe organ. And today's. Holy shit. Um, today's money would be 450,000.

Close $330,000. But all of this spending comes to a breaking point. Lee Roy lets his wife know he will be reigning in her spending. That's again. Like, don't go fucking crazy.

To a point where people are like suspicious. Yeah. If it's the turn of the century, how about you get a pipe organ that's worth like $100. Can you even play the pipe organ?

Yeah. Yeah. What's your pipe organ? It's a pipe organ. Turn it off.

It's too loud. It's like done. Yeah. Yeah. That she has Dracula ambitions.

Yeah. Okay. So basically, this is where the story started. It's 1902. Right.

Cassie's 40 something. She doesn't like that her spending has now been limited. Okay. She's going to take the matters into her own hands as she likes to do. Okay.

So she has just left the Carnegie mansion with her big envelope under her arm. Getting back into her husband's front's carriage. Telling him. She can't tell him anything. Then telling him literally everything.

And when she shows him what's in that envelope, James sees. And as a lawyer, he witnesses. Seeing two promissory notes, one is for a quarter of a million dollars. Wow. Wow.

Today would be worth how many million. 22 million. 9.7 million. Okay.

But still, basically, I'm worth 10 million dollars here.

Mm-hmm. The other is for half a million dollars, which is 19 million in today's movie. Wow. And they're both signed by Andrew Carnegie. And that she also shows him more paperwork,

purportedly showing proof of the stocks and bonds. She's been gifted by her rich father. Her stocks and bonds are valued around five million dollars. Which would be $194 million today. Holy shit.

She's really going for it. She really is. I'm sorry to tell you. It's all fake. What?

She forged all of it. No. When she knocked on the floor door. How'd she get in? She basically said, "Hello, I'm a very rich lady."

And I would like to hire my own ladies made.

“Can I talk to the head of your household to talk about how I could find help from my rich households?”

They're like, "Come on in, man." She stays in for as long as she can. She talks to the head of their housekeeping. For as long as she possibly can to make it seem realistic. And then comes back outside.

I would love to. There would just be like. She went. Oh, I got the fog. I got some privies to empty.

Yeah. I got to just scrub down a surface. Elizabeth is betting on the fact that James will not be able to keep this juicy secret under wraps, of course, which is just such a brilliant, this is what I do love about scams. You're betting on the behavior that everybody exhibits.

Totally. Because who among us? Yeah. Doesn't immediately when someone is like, "I have to tell you, please don't tell anyone." Yeah.

Or I'm just like, "I won't accept for my sister." Right. And it for other people. Exactly. So, she's right.

As soon as James gets back to Ohio, he blabs to everyone in their social circle. She's really father is Andrew Carnegie, that she's the illegitimate child. She's actually loaded. The news makes its way all throughout Cleveland's most elite circle. Remember?

“She's like, remember when we all hated me because I was up in the air.”

And now you're back and don't even remember the balloon jealousy you felt toward me. Yeah. And look at me now. But here's the thing. All that gossip does not reach her husband.

He was traveling throughout Europe. He got sick. He's been laid up. He's just been stuck over there. It's probably rude to talk about something like that, too, to someone.

You know what I mean? I'm just talking about money. The parentage is like shameful in those days. Right, supposed to be shameful. So you don't bring that up casually.

Not to the husband. No. Because that's basically you're talking about that you're judging her. Right. And that essentially the point of all of it is wow, look how rich she is.

Totally. You're not supposed to be saying that stuff. So it's the perfect setup. Yeah. The rumor mill is a buzz.

Elizabeth, of course, plays Coi. The story is believable enough that she is able to secure massive loans from a handful of banks just based on who they think her father is.

The loans are never less than $10,000, which is almost $400,000 in today's money.

And the largest is reportedly $800,000, $31 million today. Oh, my god. She went for it. Yeah. That's all remarkable considering at the time.

Most women could not get a bank loan by themselves at all. Right. And she's doing it all on these cards. She keeps passing everybody. Wow.

It's a lot of men's signatures on that. Wow. Much like the little Mastashio that she got herself.

“She's like, how do I use the men to make that money?”

Wow. So she's getting away with what essentially is a pre Ponzi Ponzi scheme. Yeah. Because she pays off the last loan after she secures the next one. And of course, lives insanely extravagantly.

Which then convinces the people in Cleveland. She is who she says she is. Right. Her husband Lee Roy does not catch on. He's old and rich and I guess sick.

And so Elizabeth essentially buys 98,000 dollars worth of jewels in one go. Oh. Shit. 3.6 million today. So she just goes hell of shopping.

Oh my god.

Pearls that are valued at $40,000, which would be 1.4 million today.

And enough close to fill dozens of closets. Oh, I want to look at it. For Christmas 1903, she gives all her friends.

Honey. Bitter. Dada. Yep. Everybody gets a piano.

Everybody gets a 50,000.

“And the pianos are worth thousands of dollars.”

Yeah.

That's what I'm doing this year.

Yeah. And required lessons. Right. After school. Everybody exactly right gets a piano this year.

And we want to hear hot cross buns by Valentine's Day. You better fuck it. Learn to play or we're taking it back. So by 1905, everything is spiraling out of control. Yeah.

And when we get to free pianos and pipe organ area, it's just like there's no one's. There's no breaks. Yeah. Elizabeth spending is too exorbitant. She's no longer repaying any debt.

That ruins the Ponzi scheme. Yeah. Her lenders are drowning. Leerae finally puts two and two together. He files for divorce.

Elizabeth, who is now 50 years old. Fleas to New York. Knowing she's in 2D.

“When she's tracked down by police, they reportedly find a money belt around her waist holding”

around $100,000, which would be $3.8 million.

Oh, where are she staying? Like what hotel? Like the Plaza or whatever. Whatever. What would be there?

I mean, right. Yeah. It's not the fucking holiday. And I guarantee you that. It's hide on the west side.

Yeah. She is indicted. On forgery and conspiracy charges for defrauding a national bank. That would be the citizen's national bank in Oberlin, Ohio, which declares bankruptcy as a direct result of this scheme.

Wow. And because Oberlin is a college town, right, it financially devastates countless students who used that bank. Okay. That's fucked up.

It's super fucked up. The trial is a huge sensation. Of course, it's covered globally in newspapers, Andrew Carnegie himself attends the trial. It's like, yep. That's my daughter.

Oops. I had that.

“And he eventually gets a chance to look the promissory notes that have his quote signature”

on them. And he notices typos throughout the documents. And he says, quote, "If anybody had seen this paper and they really believed that I had drawn it up and signed it, I could hardly have been flattered." Oh.

Yeah. He did some shit work and everyone believed that I was going along with that. Carnegie winds up making donations to some of Elizabeth's victims, including fully reimbursing the Oberlin students who lost all their money at that bank. Wow.

And just for their trouble, he endows enough money to Oberlin College for the school to build the new library. What a match. In the end, Elizabeth Vigley is found guilty and sentenced to 10 years in prison. And immediately her health begins to decline, which is kind of like when the magic finally

does away. It's like the churn and the excitement and everything. Once it's over, it's over. She basically ends up dying a year later after what's described in old reports as a quote total nervous collapse, but was more likely a heart attack.

She's 51 years old at the time. Which kind of upset me when I heard that. Historians aren't exactly sure how much money Elizabeth Vigley defrauded from her victims

and never repaid, but as Cassie Chadwick alone, it's estimated to be around $630,000,

which is more than $23 million in today's money. I mean, go big, right? Yeah. She really did. No, go back to Toledo or whatever.

Yeah. Ontario. Ontario. Historians say that it's likely an even higher amount because many of her male victims probably would not want to admit that they had been scammed so intensely by a fortune teller or just

a cute young 25-year-old. Or in that. Or for a whole. Just a woman at all. Today, Elizabeth remains one of the most prolific on artists in all of American history.

Right? Quincy Baleous reports for Ohio History Connection, that quote, female fraudsters like Anna Sorkin and Elizabeth Holmes currently dominate the news, but neither perfected the art of the grift to the extent that Cassie did. She truly earned the title of the world's greatest woman's swimmer and quote, and that's

a story of Elizabeth Bigley, the scamming queen of Ohio. Amazing. Wow. Oh, she like in person. Who would you cast as her?

Well, for something that intense, I would do like a holly hunter type of person. Oh, yeah. You suddenly are like, wait, why am I-- I can't-- I'm transfixed. And unassuming, too. Yes, but like the intense--

Yeah. It holly hunter in raising Arizona. I guess. Right? Yes.

Where you're suddenly doing what she needs you to do, because she needs that baby high. And you want to help her? Yeah. Yeah. I got to hit the baby.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

Oh, great job.

I mean, hey, that's our tribute to Royal Swindle, please listen to our newest podcast.

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Goodbye. Elvis, do you want to clicky? Ah.

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