Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 106: Courage Shoulders

I'm Jake Brennan, and on the disgraceland podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars

and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you have earned, the kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison, or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of, where that time blondies Debbie Harry is skate, Ted Bunny. Listen to disgraceland, on the eye-hurt radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Betrayal Weekly is back, with brand new stories, from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town.

“It was from an unknown number, who else is getting these messages?”

Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed to work and she said. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the eye-hurt radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to rewind with Karen and Georgia, that's right, this is the show

where we recap our old early episodes with the new case info and lots of old feeling. They were rewinding to episode 106, which we named Courage Shoulders, did that hit you at all as familiar? No, you, brand new.

I'm thinking stand up straight, Courage Shoulders, let's find out, let's find out today.

This episode is from February 1st, 2018. Let's listen to the intro of episode 106, Courage Shoulders. Hello, hi and welcome to my favorite podcast that's asking everyone a question that it refuses to answer. It refuses to answer or acknowledge, right, it just makes you ask the question, it walks

away quickly. Yeah, and then it's like, "Quick ask me so many questions, Mom." Like you open this conversation dad with a question, what's happening, and you respond

“to the question of, like, what's wrong with me?”

Oh, you put it back on me? Yeah. Oh, is that what you do? Yeah. And just at the beginning of the conversation.

Right. I didn't even.

I was here eating cereal.

Yeah. I was loudly eating sugar cornposs. Right. Compulsively, what are you, what are you, what are you meant to come in to my, whip chocolate milk?

Let's talk about milk in it. Have you done that before? No, but someone should. That sounds insane. It does.

It's your new, make, make negatini.

“But I used to put spoonfuls of sugar on, like, sugar cereal?”

No. Not on, like, on non-jigger cereal, which is disgusting. And it's the same. Oh, I know, like, race crispies with like four teaspoons of sugar, and then the bottom is just like the so-ledgy sugar crunchy milk mess.

And then suddenly cartoons are more beautiful. Yeah. Everything's more beautiful. Everything's so much more beautiful. You're teeth hurt.

Yeah, they, eventually fall out. Um, what's going on? Hi, how are you? I'm really good. I'm, I'm doing really good.

I feel like I feel like I'm, I'm eating a lot of jinsing, um, just chewing on jinsing. Can I kick it off with, this, I'm going against all, uh, former models of this show. Okay. Skipper's pay attention. Uh, I'm going to do a hometown murder right now.

Okay. Of interest. Okay. It was pulled by Stephen. Yeah.

About Stephen. Great. Let's do it. Not in my backyard. Not with my Stephen.

Okay. The subject line is BTK taught my husband how to tie knot. Oh my god. Oh, no. One of those B, the one of those letters is a knot.

You know, the B part? Fine. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He was kind of good at it.

Let's talk about it. Okay. I mean, if anyone's going to teach you. Hi, ladies. Quick hometown murder for you.

The husband scout master was the BTK killer and then she writes Dennis Radar. Now, I don't mean to make fun of you because I'm sure you're a true murderer, you know. But and maybe you're, uh, you're, what do you call auto-correct made it say Radar?

It sounds like, it's like, he's like one of the bosses and, uh, the jetzons or something. I mean, it sounds like a new wave, like a new wave name, like you're in a band and you change your last name to sound cool in the new wavey.

“Do you, have you seen that really cute, um, bass player Dennis Radar?”

Gross. Sorry. Anyway, I'll say Radar for none. Um, so he grew up only a few houses away from the Radar family. Yeah.

It's like, which is our Kansas. Also attending school with his children. Uh, Radar would take my husband's scout troop overnight to, on overnight camping trips where he would often leave at some point with an excuse to get supplies, et cetera. What?

Yeah, you just have to nip off or supplies. In the dead of night. In hindsight, he was using the camping trips as narrow by a first quote, scouting future murder missions, no pun intended snore and possible murders. At the time, the murders were happening.

It was thought the BTK was focusing on single mother households. Well, I didn't know that. And I did be the guy, uh, which was my, what my husband's family was. So this was particularly disconcerting. The very loud and bar key family dog went missing from the backyard a couple weeks before

someone broke into their home, leaving behind a pair of binoculars and stealing nothing. Oh, no. Happy to report that his sisters and mother are all alive and healthy to this day. Can't say the name for the dog, which was never found. Oh, that's, uh, can't say the same for the dog or the name or the, I thought she was trying

to say like, do not speak of him. What if his name was Radar? This whole, he was named after Radar or Riley from Mash. Okay. Um, but this is also interesting, I know it's a second paragraph.

One of the last super random things about BTK. His house went up for auction a couple years ago with the proceeds going to his family. The woman who bought the house was an extrapper and strip club owner. She didn't amazing thing. She had the fucking house torn down.

She said that she wanted, um, Raider's wife to have the money to start a new life to this day. It's an empty vacant lot in the middle of the block. She's filled free to see the attached before and after picks that her husband, Shaw.

When we first started dating, he had this picture of a house framed and I was always like,

“why does he have this artsy picture of this ugly ass house in its cool Brooklyn apartment?”

After I found out what it was, he put a ring on it, fucking thing went into store it. Uh, that's crazy. Yeah. Go, go, strip or lady go. Go lady.

Uh, I have one. Yeah. If we're doing it, it's not a hometown, but she's a story. It's called my grandfather hunted the zodiac killer. Interesting.

And treat. Okay. Um, hello. And this is all one word. Karen, George Stephen Vince, Elvis, Dottie, Mimi, Karen, I forgot your dog's name.

I'm so sorry. But hello, doggy's. Um, okay. So basically, she heard this stuff, so she wanted to let us know. My grandfather is David Tochi.

Dave Tochi? Yeah. So funny, I was on the way home from our trip, our Nashville show on that plane.

I was watching the zodiac, which is so good and I'm fucking, okay, so here's what happens.

He was an SPD, SPFD, SPD, for years and an inspector on the zodiac case. Growing up, he would tell my sisters a nice story about working the case, the crime scenes he was called to and most importantly, all the squirrels in Arthur Lee Allen's freezer. He always talked about the squirrels. The year's report has got our relatives, phone numbers and addresses, and we either call

or show up to our house is wanting to talk to my grandpa about the case. On the rare occasion, he was contacted directly, he would get pretty pissed and never gave him an interview. This also included numerous attempts from Grace Smith. Is that?

Robert Grace Smith is the guy that wrote the zodiac book that movie's based on and he's that illustrator, the jigsaw, and hopefully he was so smart. Wow. Okay. And this one is my favorite move.

I'm understandable. I'd be pretty fucking tired of talking about it too, but when the movie started shooting, he was happy to be an adviser on set and got a huge kick out of hanging out with Mark Rafflow. I would too.

I mean, Jesus. Come on. Who wanted to perfect my grandpa's mannerisms on such, Rafflow totally nailed it.

“And this is so funny, because I was like, what's this fucking animal cracker bullshit?”

It looks so stupid. I'm like, why do they have to add this? But then she says, right down to the way he spoke, the animal cracker's in the glove box and taking the tomatoes off of his sandwich. Gramps was pretty jazzed to be given the recognition and the rest of us as his family

were happy. He was portrayed in a positive light rather than the inspector who couldn't crack the case for the sake of a high-grossing blockbuster. So she goes on to say that her grandpa's 68, he is not in the best of health anymore, and this was written a while ago, so she had just written a Christmas.

She had just spent Christmas with him every time I visit.

I never know who will be the last time I see him, but he's a badass and keep hanging

on. So here's a couple pictures. And then she wrote us another letter just the other day that he had passed away. So RIP and big apps to Grandpa for being a badass, mother fucker.

have to be? Yeah. You're in several films. And Hollywood. People are like, we're a fellow, play, do you?

I'm on those fucking bow dyes. Is that really? I'm uncomfortable with the fact that I find him darling and cute and wonderful and have a crush on him, but he looks like my uncle. He creeps me out.

I'm on my uncle look at our show. Yes. He used to be like a fucking, you know, what's his name, the detective. Colombo looking detective, who was in like an episode of Colombo, too. I was going to say Inspector Closo because I didn't know what we were doing.

Inspector Gadget. I didn't realize it was a look like thing. I was my friend Laura used to live up behind the gelsons off Franklin. And she had like a barbecue one afternoon and there was a guy there that was a guy that

was so cute and it was after that first big movie.

But what, he was in with the fucking Laura Lini. Keep. Oh, no. You can count on me. That's right.

You can count on me.

“We didn't remember because we've never said that to anyone.”

And they absolutely can't. And they will not. And they know it. And if they think they should, I'll ask some questions. So they didn't.

Such a foreign phrase. It is. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say, I started watching the news show on Netflix. That is so fucking good. It's called Wormwood.

Oh, yeah. Do you know about it? Yeah. Okay, so it's about. It's arrow moroses.

It's like a, okay. It's a docky drama. So it's like. Have you watched it?

I watched the first two or three.

No, no, no. Like part of the first. Okay. It's so fucking good. It's really.

Without this fucking CIA employee who in 1953 jumped out of window of a New York City hotel, rolled it to suicide. Turns out he was being tested on from MK Ultra with LSD, jumped out the window. And it's the movie is about, or whatever movie is about his son trying to fucking figure out what happened.

It's incredible. And like all the actors are so good in it. Fucking Peter Sarasgard. So good. But our scene on how much we love Sarasgard.

We love all the Sard's guards. We do. We do. Tim Blake Meals Nelson. The great actor Bob Ballaban.

You know, Ballaban. Ballaban. It's fucking really. It's really good. That's really awesome.

I could just, you know what it was. Maybe we talked about this in person. But there's so John Ronson, my new favorite. And all of their person audiobook narrator. He has a story.

“And I think it's, uh, it's in the men who stare at goats.”

Because there's the men. Yeah. Yeah. About he, he went and met that guy and learned all about that story. And within that story, after the dad died, like a couple before the mom died,

him and his brother went on a bike trip across the United States. Hmm. As like, I think it's 12 and a 14 year old. They rode their bikes literally across the United States. And it was in the paper and stuff.

And it's super crazy. Like, and when you hear it in the audiobook, it's, it's like, this can't be real. Yeah. And they did.

It's so like, exactly what you're like. I knew the government was like this and did this shit. I knew it. Yeah. And now we get to know it.

Yeah. You know? So nuts. Oh, I've watched, have you started watching the alienist? Yeah.

I love it. It's good. Sorry. You don't love it. It's just like, I read the book and I didn't have it.

“I did in my head of what it looks like and what it's like.”

But it does seem very true to the book. I get that though. You, you make a movie in your head. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm enjoying it so far. I was tripping out last night on the, uh, how brilliant the, uh, opening credits are.

Because they basically, they're running the building of New York backwards.

I love that. It's such a cool. It's the coolest way to set that tone. And then you're just back so far that, like, her working at the police department is a huge deal in and of itself.

I mean, the huge of steel is the shoulders on her dresses. That are, like, past the top of her head. Like, fucking shoulder pads. No, this is like shoulder towers. That's where all her weapons are.

That's where her, uh, jar of arsenic is. That's where she keeps her courage. That's right. When she can tap into it. It's like, um, like, with the hats that you have that has beer on it with a strong.

You need it. When you need a sip of beer. It's a courage shoulder. It's courage shoulders. Yeah.

How does she take in the courage? Um, I don't know. Through her. Knitball. Yes.

Listen. And seen there. We did it. Okay. We are back in it.

How long was that intro? How long did it be used to go? Oh, that was a hundred years. Every time. That's why the skippers complain.

Right. It wasn't just that we were talking about other stuff for a bit, like, another podcast. Right. Or, like, true crime in any way.

We couldn't stop talking about food.

And ourselves endlessly. You know what?

“It's brought home recently speaking a cereal.”

What? He's a big cereal. Freak me too. He brought home peanut butter checks checks. Number square.

Peanut butter flavor. What's the base? We rice. I think it's boring. I think it's both.

Oh, okay. So it's really fucking good. That sounds really good. Not too sweet either. Will you take a picture of the box?

I will. And send it to me. I will. You know what? I have right now.

That's really good and secretly good. Especially for older people. Okay. Raising brand crunch. Oh.

So it's like, you're being good to yourself with the Raising brand. Oh, I got to have brown. You got it. But then get some crunch in there.

You're tricking yourself. Loving it. I was going to go on with the Raising Nut brand. But then I just realized we were doing exactly what we just said that week. He used to do that.

Oh, man. Not do it. We can't be stopped. This should have been, like, a bad food podcast. Oh, we could talk about food for fucking 10 more years.

Yeah. That's the next one. Okay. I did not remember getting an email from Dave Toshis, granddaughter who was the lead investigator and Mark Ruffalo in the Zoyak

Movies. That's right. That's the road us and email. I did not remember that. That's so cool of us.

That makes us so cool. It makes us. Yeah. Did you see the news, Zoyak? Like, theory?

No.

Basically Michael Connelly, the author for my mother,

says that they did an AI thing with one of the codes and it was broken. And they think that the same suspect that was on the Black Dahlia list is also the Zoyak Killer. That's AI. This same program that when asked what's best to do for your health every day.

It tells people to eat six small rocks. That's something I saw one time. But I also think about, like, would people? Well, how would people feel if, like, a big true crime cold case got solved

“because of AI and put someone brought them to justice?”

We'd have to really fight with ourselves to, like, be cool about it. True. I mean, if it's scraping, like millions and billions of books that have all theorized about all of these different things. Yeah. Who knows.

But I feel like that's the same thing. I'm like, get ready. Because when these monkeys finish typing and Shakespeare's play, it comes out. We're going to party.

Right. Where it's just like, well, let's see. Yeah. But the AI that my endodontist used told him to pull to teeth of mine. And then when he x-rayed them, he was like, oh, the AI was wrong.

Your teeth are fine. Oh, my God. That happened to me. Don't use AI for teeth. I mean, they're usually a forever thing.

Oh, I know. Okay. Well, this is an AI and we promise you that. That's right. Remember the alienists? Yes, I watched every episode.

Such a good show. And they look good. Okay. Now, let's get into. We're going to.

We're just going to stop doing what we've.

What we've always done on this podcast.

And get right into George's story for this episode about Teresa, Catherine Foster. Well, the lean instant oil change presents wisdom from the road. Some are means wide open spaces in a whole lot of extra miles. This place you want your engine to give out is halfway to nowhere. Out here, won't oil or a weak battery is just an ambush way to happen.

“That's why every oil change at Balveline Instan oil change includes an 18-point”

maintenance check. These texture trained to help spot issues early and give you a run easy. Balveline, Mr. Toilwell changed wisely. Should we, his first this week, who went first at the last episode? Last, oh, like, no.

The episode people have heard. Yes. I'm going to leave that one. Steve Karen went first last time. Yeah, Karen did crystal worth it and last.

Okay. All right. So I'm first. This is the story of Teresa, the murder of Teresa Catherine Foster. And I got a ton of my information from a really great article from 2011. 2011.

I don't even need to say the whole thing. Well, from a magazine caller and online magazine called Westward, and it's called the case of the kidnapped co-ed. Alan Pendergrass wrote it. Here we go. 10 30 a.m. on Thursday, November 11th, we're in 1948.

All right. Here we are. 12 miles south of Boulder, Colorado. Two rabbit hunters come across the body of a young woman. They stand half buried in the snow beside a frozen stream. She's dead, obviously.

She appeared to have been dumped there from the bridge. That was 15 feet above along Highway 93. Her jacket was tightly wound around her neck. Uh, and her sweater was pulled up. Her bra was still on, but below the waist.

She only had on her loafers and Bobby socks. So she had been, quote, battered almost beyond recognition as one reporter put it. And to the rabbit hunters, it was obvious if she was.

So Teresa Catherine Foster was an 18 year old engineering student at the University of Colorado.

“And had been walking home around 10 p.m.”

The night she disappeared from a rosary meeting on the Boulder campus. Uh, she had been heading downtown while it main street towards the house of a professor at the college and his family where she lived in exchange for chores. So immediately like the professor did it, right? That's what, but it's not true. Okay.

Don't go down the line about him. You couldn't do it. Put that card aside in this game of glue. Yes. Not necessary.

So the next morning the family was like, she's not here. This is very much not like her. Where could she be? Um, she's not the type to say at all all night. So they call the police.

So Teresa's known as a dependable girl. She's super self-dufficient. She was the ninth of 11 kids grown. He'd grown up on a farm outside Greenly, Colorado. She milk cows.

She hunted. She's an honor student. She didn't swear or smoke. She was religious and had high school sweetheart even though she was kind of boy shy. So she was a really typical girl, not the kind of person to run away with someone or to get into any trouble.

So the day after her disappearance, 20 miles from where her body was found the next day. So her body had been found yet. A local farmer had found a bloody crime scene at the local Lover's Lane. So he goes to Lover's Lane. He says that there's so much blood in a ten foot area along the road that he thought someone had been

that slaughtered one of his calves. Oh, she's initially. But there were bits of hair and scalp tissue, a broken grip of a 45 automatic and a ring and white scarf identified as belonging to Theresa. And it showed that she had put up a fight. But after her body was found the next day, her autopsy showed she had been raped,

budgeted and strangled.

And it was the first homicide in 72 year history of the university.

Wow. And the first murder and boulder in nine years. Knowing the story would be big, the editors of the Denver Post freaked the fuck out. And they start their own massive investigation on their own. In a way that you can only get away with in like 1948.

“And they ultimately put the case and the eventual trial of the suspect at risk by the means of what's it called?”

Newspaper English story. That's the getting investigating and not advertising. What's the word promoting? Telling the story. You know, telling?

Yes, telling. Like what I'm doing. Got it. So this man named Palmer Hoyt is the editor and publisher of the post the Denver Post. He's a former writer, a pulp detective story.

So he's fucking big on this murder mystery story. He launches a campaign to catch Theresa's killer. So at the time it was normal for newspapers to hire quote experts to help cover murder trials. They'd get them astrologer to prepare the killer's horoscope. Is that insane?

48? Mm-hmm. God, that seems late to be doing stuff like that. Maybe they were doing in the 20s. But then it was like kind of a still a normal thing.

God, that's, but I just would never.

Well, that's the newspaper though. Yeah, I was thinking, like more police. Yeah, no, no, no. This is all the press. Still though.

It's a little muddy. And it's so like grasping at straws. Like we need stories. We need to sell papers.

“Let's get anything we can to this papers.”

It needs to happen. What does the moon say about this? Exactly. What does it tell about them? So they'd give a cycle analysis.

I hypothesized the mind of the killer based on what little information they had. So for barely 48 hours after Theresa's body was found, this guy Palmer Hoyt hired a man named Earl Stanley Gardner to come in from New York. And he had been offered the amount of money most reporters made in the year to come in. Because this guy Gardner was a self-taught attorney didn't graduate school. I guess you could do that at the time.

Yes. No, no, yeah, I got all those books. I'm good, for sure. Yeah, I'm an attorney. I didn't take any test for graduate.

Can you see my vest? Yeah, it's, I'm an attorney. See my briefcase right here? Look, don't worry about it. It's all in there.

Look at listen to me as an attorney. But he wears tap shoes. Yes, he had become famous. He, after that, he had become a famous writer of pulp novels, create and eventually created Perry Mason. Holy shit.

So he's the dude who created Perry Mason. He's a self-taught lawyer. Uh-huh. Wow. They bring him in.

This guy Palmer Hoyt, editor of the, okay, so they bring him in. He at the time made him rich and the most widely read living author on the planet. So this guy's a big fucking deal. And people are going to buy the newspaper that this guy is writing for their party, too. They're turning their newspaper into a pulp novel around this story.

Yeah, it's almost like if you were like Kim Kardashian's going to be on my fucking, that episode of whatever the fuck on in my zine. So you're going to buy the zine.

It would be a great way to represent Kim.

I know. Yeah. Just more Kim and Tex. More Kim. It's not visual with Kim this time.

Mm-hmm. It's more about her poetry. Kim White copies, I make a kinkos. We're going to turn out great. Kim loves collages.

Kim loves collages.

“And she's there for all of your fan chip.”

There you go. Let's keep doing this. Um, so he said, I am to, I am trying to present the, to the readers of the Denver Post. The situation as it might appear to the eyes of Perry Mason. The fictional lawyer detective who has solved so many cases in my book.

So he's fucking there to solve crimes and solve books. Whatever. So he had insane access to the investigation. And it was treated like the, like a VIP by the like police and detectives and investigators too who are like smitten by him as well. The DA, the Boulder Sheriff as well as detectives gave him access to their files and all the information on the case.

They just like let him come to the station and read everything he wanted. Um, he followed a bunch of leads that didn't pan out.

He basically sucked it detecting, not in a book that he had written the story about.

It's different when you're detecting by making up it, it up as it goes along. Right. Or like when you write what happened and then you saw what happened. It's different. So he followed a blood trail that turned out to be animal blood.

Um, speculated that the killer cut his hands based on blood stains. And um, the, and called for the public to report any weirdos or suspicious dudes gathered many. And so people started calling and a reporting random people. The, the post and, and all these like leads and shit were written about in the paper. So every time some weirdly would happen, it would be written about.

“Um, the post, the Denver Post created in detail and made up scenarios of the possibilities of traces murder.”

So basically wrote fiction of what happened and published it as fact. They took liberties with the story, fictionalized it. Um, and distorted the evidence. Of course, the fucking term of the day was sex-fiend. Um, like that was just on every cover of every paper. One of the lines was what dark and brutal desire is lie within the hidden places of some human beings.

What thoughts of perverted pleasures and not at the hearts of some human creatures. What terrible and godless passions lie within the bosom of some we pass perhaps on the street. So I come down to it. Well, you just said the same thing three times. Like, yeah, take it elsewhere.

Yeah, if you've got some theories here. Right. And it's like, well, keep asking me the same fucking thing. Just in over and over and totally. So in the Denver Police field in an average of 200 calls a day about said fucking weirdos that they were like turned it in. Well, sure. Yeah.

They're everywhere. I mean, they're everywhere. Ultimately, though, the main suspect was found when his wife turned him in. Uh, 12 days into the hunt for Teresa's killer. Eleanor Walker, a woman named Eleanor Walker tells the the bolder detectives about her husband.

She's one year old Joe Sam Walker from Eldorotta Springs. She said it come home late the night that Teresa disappeared with his close bloody and a wound on the top of his head. He had burned his bloody clothes and washed out and repainted the trunk of his car. No, oh, totally normal. You know, as like you do.

Like, and that to do list for Sunday. Yeah. I don't know.

It's like always up right at the top.

Get your teeth clean every six months. We paint your fucking trunk of inside trunk of your car every three months. Yeah. Three months. Just really get in there and do new colors every time.

Yeah. It's fun. Yeah. Maybe wallpaper. Okay.

You know, something fun. So did it. Well, and burned repainted. He also told his wife he disposed of a 45 pistol and a parka and one a park. So the fucking Denver post also put a thing in that was like, you know, call about these weirdos.

And any clues you have. Let the police know if you can't get a hold this. Please call us. Oh, so all these people were calling and then like I have this clue. This clue.

Yeah, this woman had found like a hidden away and like pipe a storm drain. Some bloody clothing, including a parka and like a rag and all these things.

“The Denver post had taken the bloody parka and told her the other stuff was an important”

So shit thrown away. Good. Uh-huh. Yes. So definitely listen to the fucking news papers.

If they tell you that evidence is an important. I mean, it's funny because you, it's a lot like that book. I'm worth it. I was reading a plane. It's the same.

But it's in the tens. But it's exact same thing. We're like once a murder happened. Then people just came into town that were like, I'm an independent private detective. And they could be anybody and they could all access all areas of anything.

Right. Everything is recently that they were like applied logic to process. Yeah. It's like how about nobody stands around here. And no one gets all the information.

Yeah, we can't. Yes. So they, so he had gotten rid of a pistol in a parka. So we're going to be found. He Joe is arrested that night.

So the studio walkers story of the night of the murder. But he had gone to a drive in and had a couple beers. And then he had picked up a couple on his way home. He had picked up a couple who were in their 20s hitchhiking on the same street to reset disappeared from a couple.

The man that he had picked up in the couple drink from a pint of whiskey.

“And the woman argued with him about needing to get home.”

And let's see. So they get to the lover's lane. And the man who he to Joe described as short and stocky in his mid 20s said he wanted to drive the car from there on for whatever reason. Walker was like, no, you can't drive my car.

They got no an argument. And Joe says they began like fighting, punching each other outside the car. And then the man found Joe's 45 in the glove compartment. And used it to club Joe in the head. And Joe goes unconscious at this point.

Uh-huh. When he comes to the man has gone, and the woman is dead. Half-knit body hanging out of the car trunk. He finds her like that. Yeah.

Yeah. He's panicked and, quote, scared stiff. So he puts her body in the trunk and drives south. And disposes of her body after bridge and tosses her clothes after her. Then he goes home to try a wash away all the blood.

So he says, someone else killed her. And he disposed of her body because he was scared. Yeah. He just had to do what he had to do. Yeah.

Don't tell authorities. No. Definitely don't bring people to the place where you can prove you didn't do it. All right. Also your wife isn't on your side.

She's going to tell on you. So be a little more chill about that. You haven't been that cool to her for like 25 years. She's not stoked on you. Yeah.

Yeah. So the cops thought this is a bullshit story. Obviously they poke all these holes in it. And his wife, but his wife ends up believing he's innocent even though the papers go wild and tarnish Joe and aren't like this is the sex scene.

Oh, and also is didn't she start it? Yeah. And then she just convinced. She did the wrong thing. Yeah.

Oh, wow. Yeah. The Denver Post soon gets all this. Just finds all this disturbing info about Joe in 1947. He was arrested in Oregon on a complaint that he'd made quote, "looted advances" toward

two girls while driving a delivery truck. But the post headline was Oregon police disclosed girls 11 and 12 were molested. So like all this crazy shit. And then so he goes to trial in 1949. And the local jury is picked and of course they've been reading these headlines constantly for

fucking months. There was over 230 articles and almost in six months written about this. Wow. That's what. So there's hair, blood, fiber evidence that ties into the scene.

But they never tested the scene and that was found, which is really weird.

Even though the defense pressed for tests because they said that it would prove that the client wasn't the one who raped her. It was hitchhiker. Right. So I don't know why they never tested it.

It's really weird. A waitress at the diner, the driving where he had been said that she had served Joe and a young woman shortly after 10, the evening she disappeared. And the jury comes back two days later with a verdict of guilty of second degree murder and he sentenced to 80 or so life.

So they think he was taking her out on a date. Not a date, as much as like hey I'll give you right home. We'll just come get because she was having a coffee. Like come where you come get a coffee with me. Oh, and I'll take you home.

But at the driving movie theater? It's a drive in like restaurant. Oh, restaurant. You know, sorry. I immediately went to movie theater.

Yeah, but he had had beer and she had coffee. And I was like, why are they?

“Did they know each other? Why are they hanging out?”

I mean, because I always go to like the fugitive style.

What if what he's saying is true? I know. It doesn't sound like a like the idea that he would be. You go as far as to repaint your trip. Yeah. I don't know.

No. Disposing of a body speaks of guilt. Yes, right? I think for sure. Yeah.

So less than a month later after he's put away six months after Teresa's murder two students at the same school are attacked next to Boulder Creek. Well, I don't know blind date. The assailant hit the woman in the head with some kind of metal pipe and she was able to get away.

But her date Roy Spore had his leg in a cast and couldn't run. His body is recovered from the creek the next day. His skulls fractured in several places. His murder has never, his murder has never been found. Either by coincidence or not.

Just as Teresa was, he's an engineering student. Whoa. So two engineering students in six months are attacked and fled into that in the same way, in the same way in the same area. So there's a possibility of a black incident.

Yeah. Fuck. Or that it's not. That it's the same murder. That it's a serial killer.

But that he's innocent. Yeah. I mean, the engineering student thing could be a coincidence. I'd have to see some number. Yeah.

“That's how many engineers students are there.”

They're invited by a million by X.

X. X a million. Yep. And then go ahead and round that all. Three.

So guys. There's three engineers students. I can create two of them. I'd been killed. Oh, my God.

That's borderline and majority. If I were that third one, I'd get the fuck out of town.

And I'd get on town. Or you see the killer.

“Oh, but I have to be the only engineering student.”

So sorry. That was him calling. That was the bell that when you got it completely right. That's what that was.

When the theories go and go and go and we finally hit on what happened.

Karen's found rings. God text me. Yes. Yep. Here you go.

You're doing my work. He said to say hi, Georgia. Hey, bro. And then actually your people are the ones that are right. Oh, good.

Yeah. She said that's right. That's what she said. That's what she said. Okay.

Blah, blah, blah. After 20 years after Joe gets locked up. The Colorado Supreme Court overturned his conviction. And due to his claims of pretrial publicity. So right before that are like pretty quickly before this.

Sam Shepard remember him. He's a doctor who maybe killed his wife. Maybe dinner. Yep. You know, hi, oh.

He his conviction had been overturned because of the media involvement. And how much bullshit was talked. So even if he did it or not, it doesn't matter. He didn't get a fair trial. So based on that.

The studio Walker is like, I had it fucking worse. And they're like, yeah, you did. And they overturned his conviction. Wow. Yeah.

So they concluded that the vote, the Denver post had injected itself into the investigation. Investigatory process by distorting evidence, presenting speculation as fact, and dubious Detective worked as infallible.

And they described events that never happened.

And generally with publicity, quote, so extensive, so slanted and prejudicial. So calculated to inflame. And so all perversive as to make a fair trial for Walker impossible. So whether or not he fucking did it, they let him go. Yeah.

He maintained his innocence until 1982, when he hanged himself and it texted him at all around. Shit. So we not, we don't know who killed her. And we don't know if it's him.

I'm going to guess it is. But you know, but still there's the doors open. I just, and I'm sorry to correct you. But this one people are going to talk about. Huh?

All perversive is what you said, but it's all pervasive.

“And perversive, I think, is like a different.”

You're right. More of a fetish thing. The all, all the dirty things you can. I'm going to say it's perversive. I'm going to say it.

I'm going to say it is correct that I meant that. Well, you can do that if you want to. What was the words I used last time that ended up being, I mean, dude. What was it? It was proclensity, but it was proclivity and propensity.

Yeah, which turns out are the same. Are the same and so proclensity, specifically, I was mashing upwards. In Jan, retrospect, yeah. No, I was doing it on purpose then. Great.

Okay, we're back. Are there any updates for this? No case updates that we did receive a hometown from a listener titled Earl Stanley Gardner. Actually, a motherfuckin' justice-seeking murderer, you know. Okay.

So here it is. High ladies, animals, and Stevens. I was listening to George's account of Teresa Katherine Foster's murder during my commute, when she mentions Earl Stanley Gardner. While this dude is known for Perry Mason and in this case, his questionable investigative assistance

and even more questionable law education, I freaked out.

“I think I gasped a loan of my car because I spent the better part of a year researching Gardner”

and his true crime column, the court of last resort for my honors thesis. Whoa, smart. The column, which ran from 1948 to the 1960s in a polt magazine called Argusy, so to add him on the wrote narratives of other true crime magazines,

where the justice system always caught the bad guys.

Instead of retelling these stories again and again, Gardner investigated cases where the justice system had purportedly failed to nab the right guy, making it an early example of true crime, which manages to captivate audiences, as well as impact the cases they cover. All told Gardner and his column contributed to the exoneration of seven men.

Wow. So, yeah, even though he's most known for Perry Mason, Ardud Gardner should also be remembered for pissing off the authorities and getting people out of jail. One exonary clearance bogey even became engaged with a reader

that found him after reading Gardner's columns about him. Exoneration and matchmaker, not a plus. Much love from a new cat owner and forever, Murterino, Leslie. Oh, did you send a picture of your new cat? Oh, let's see it.

Tell your cat I said, "Sp, that's my favorite bumper sticker." That's pretty incredible. Yeah, I'm going to read more about it. I'm going to read that. Never heard of that.

No. All right, let's get into Karen's story about Luigi Longie, the shampoo killer. [music playing] That'll the lean, instant oil change presents wisdom from the road. Somewhere means wide open spaces in a whole lot of extra miles.

Last place you want your engine to give out is halfway to nowhere. Out here, vote oil or a weak battery is just an ambush way to happen.

These texture-trained help spot issues early and give you a run easy.

[music playing] Change wisely. I'm Jake Brennan, and on the disgraced land podcast, I explore the wild lives of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard.

The kind you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in one of the world's most notorious prisons. Imagine that. You're Paul McCartney. It's 1980.

You're an ex-beetle. And you're doing time in one of Japan's worst prisons, right there alongside Yakuza gangsters and for a ridiculous church. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Who is the artist Lady Gaga as being accused of doing the unthinkable too,

“after allegedly stealing her music in style to become famous?”

And what about that time, Blondie's Debbie Harry, escaped a serial killer? The man who had given her that ride she barely escaped from was Ted Bundy. Listen to disgraced land on the I-Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or ever you get your podcasts. It's Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea.

This season, we've got some awesome guests ready to throw out advice. Guests like Tiffany Haddish. Kind of slide into people's DMs. I like Bumble.

Also, girl farmers only dot com.

Like at states, sales, funerals, options. Are usually good, there's a lot of good. There's a lot of good man, man, girls to restore his near gems. Darcy Cardin. Remember being like, "I know this is good advice, but I really don't want to do that."

So you didn't take her. I didn't take her advice. Are you still friends with that woman? No. She actually was kind of toxic.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I spent my whole life looking up. I was a geek kid. I had a tall scope at age 12. So you didn't have sex for a long time?

Shariotari. Were you a soap opera person? Young and restless. Okay.

“First of all, you should know it's the young and the restless.”

I can't even believe you're misprasing. Some of us abbreviate it because we've been so worried about you. T.S. Madison. Are you into poly? No.

No. I don't think so. I could have told you. No. I'm not.

Girl, I hate to poly. Just based on what she's wearing and the way her hair is styled. She's not into poly. We're trying to poly. On a ferris, Dave Franco, Madeline Klein.

Hannah Gatsby. Adam Scott. Wanda Sikes. And more. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeart Radio app.

Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. So this my murder this week is from one of those packs of true crime training for her since she even gave us. Well, you gave them to us.

Two Christians as a go. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Can't believe it's been that long. Oh my god.

“So I think I might have gone through all of mine.”

Like, I think if you gave us four or five packs each. I didn't open all. I'm really weird about that because it's just such a special thing when it's in a package. But I mean, are you going to open them? I don't know.

I'm scared. Like, I want to save one unopened. It seems a bit open the other four. But it's scary. But there's good stuff in there.

I know. I know. I need to okay I'll do it. I mean, I get what you mean. But then, well, I'll just tell you this and you can decide for yourself.

You know how they do like unpackaging videos? Yes. Should I do that with 100%. I'll do it. Perfect.

Please log onto Georgia at youtube.net for the new unpacking. Put it on our Instagram. My favorite. My favorite. Make it an Instagram story.

And I hate those. Oh, shit. Because they go, okay. Why am I talking? They disappear in 24 hours.

Right? What is that about? It's stupid. It's for sex. It's through a wake culture.

Everything around. This is through a wake. Don't get me started. Okay.

Well, here's what I will tell you.

So I have gone through all of mine. Great. Pulled out a lot of the mafia's because sorry. It's just not my jam. Yeah.

Got a lot of great ones. But this one was from a brand new pack that sorry Steven. It's not the pack. You gave us. But a listener that we met in Las Vegas gave us.

Yeah. And I pulled this out on the plane. Um, I think probably flying home or flying a Phoenix. And I laughed out loud like a real creep at this. Um, specific one.

This specific one. Oh, my God. And then was overjoyed. And then I was like, I'm finally one ahead. Like, I know what I want to do.

Yeah. Which just never happens. I always feel like I'm scrambling to think of things. So I'm like, here it is. Whatever.

I'm excited. It's a little short though. Because it is a foreign crime. And it's a one off. Uh-huh.

Yeah.

“People regurgitated the same article to the point where there was one that was just somebody that had taken the end of the story and put it at the top of the paragraph.”

And then basically told it backwards. But word for word. It was the same. And it's like they hit translate. Yeah.

And it's a translation. You know, make it your own. Yeah. You put something in there that's for you. But anyway.

So, um, thank you for the listener who gave us those. I'm sorry. I don't have your name on this piece of paper. That's, that's really uncool.

Here's what I will say though.

Those true crime trading cards are written by Valerie Jones and Peggy Colley. And the art is drawn by Paul Lee. And it was all done in 1992. Oh, I love this shout out, right? Yeah.

Because they made all those fucking things. And I love it's two women. And it's two women. And they took heat for it. Remember when when they came out.

Everyone's like, this is disgusting. Yeah. And this is this culture of celebrating murderers. Yeah. Words like no, it's just a bunch of great interesting information.

Give us 20 years, bro. It's history, baby. Listen, baby, bro. Also, it's out. It's all out of forestville, which is a little town north of Petaluma.

Oh, probably about half an hour going toward the Russian river. That I know very well. That's your fucking hoods.

Let's invite them to our, if we ever have a Sacramento show.

That's a good idea. Or a show in Santa Rosa. Yeah. You guys can stop sending us your threatening postcards that you've been sending us. Yeah, that's right.

We have things in the works for you. You beautiful demanding. Returning has worked. And will work. Yeah.

Okay. Okay, sorry. No, no, no. So this is the story of the murder of Luigi Longi. Now, I don't speak Italian.

This isn't surprising. Wait, you don't? I don't speak Italian. I'm sorry, what? So I'm not sure if L.O.N.G.H.I.

Longi. Longi is what I'm thinking. Yeah. So Luigi Longi was born in 1954 to Italian parents in Switzerland. And from a very early age, he had a sexual fetish that got him into a lot of trouble with the law.

Which one? It's a very interesting and rare one. At age 10, he was arrested for stealing women's wigs. And bottles of shampoo from hair salons in the neighborhood. That is a new one.

Have you heard anything about this? No. I mean, that's a new fetish that I haven't heard of. Mm-hmm. And from such a young age.

Oh, yeah. Really, what happened?

“I got this just to go into, I was trying to be like, oh, what would that childhood obsession with hair?”

What would that mean? That specific, I guess we'll call it. It's a paraphernalia or a fetish. Right. But it's, I can't find anything about it anywhere.

It only brings you to the one where you trick a failure. I think where you pull your hair out. Um, so, but that's a bummer one. That is, yeah. That's a tough one.

I had a friend that used to pick a little part of his eyebrow all the time when he was stressed out. Oh. So you knew that he was like in the middle of an editor or something when he, like, part of his eyebrow would be stuck. It always grew up. I knew a little girl who, when I was a little who pulled her hair out.

Yeah. I was really sad. Her brother, like, threatened all her friend. All the girls in her grade. If you find him make fun of my sister, I will.

Oh, that's awesome. I know. Very sweet. Really sweet. Also, I think there are a lot of childhood things like that that it's common.

Yeah. I think a lot of people have everyone, everyone shows her anxiety in different ways. I used to do a thing where I wouldn't take my jacket off on the playground even though it was hot. Ooh, why? I don't know.

I was super weird.

I always thought that people were putting notes on my back.

And so I would, I would constantly be reaching to touch my back. And constantly checking my back. But did you see that happen to somebody else? Probably, I'm, like, Parker Lewis can't wait. Those are some shit.

That's a fucking save by the bell. And so I was, like, constantly. But just, I thought everyone was making fun of me. Of course. Yeah.

That was my, because you were in junior high. Elementary school. Oh, wow. No, I was on math in junior high, so no one would fuck with me. That was my ticket that word.

That was my ticket junior high is taking math. Just, maybe it was not fucking with me. Yeah. That's a different kind of ticket. Oh, I'm sorry.

No, no. So this is on Wikipedia, which you know how they always have like you. It'll, it'll cite it if you need a reference like if you're just stating something in an article. They're like, you have to reference. Yeah.

“I think there should be the same citations for grammar, because listen to how this paragraph sounds.”

I love it. Let me have it. Hair fetishism comes from a natural fascination with the species on the admiration of the coat as it's texture provides pleasurable sensations and infant develops this kind of pleasure to feel the hair on his or her early life. Manifesting an aggressive behavior that will drive to pull the hair of people with which it interacts. That was the most gorgeous sentence.

I'm getting that whole thing tattooed on my back in italics. You know when you hear something and you're just like, oh my god, that's it. Yeah, it is like the wisdom of the ages on its coat. I want you to repeat it, but it's too long, but I still love it. It's really long and also essentially it's just like children with hair fetishism like the touch touching hair at an early age.

Well, someone put that in like that quote as like one of those motivational photo quotes with like the ocean in the background.

Yeah. And we'll post it.

“Maybe if there's a lady that has hair down to her feet, if you could superimpose crystal gale into this.”

Okay. She's a, you know, country, you know her. Oh no, she's the one with a little lady with the longest hair in the world. Yeah. And she was a Loretta Lynn sister.

Anyhow. Interesting. Also then in trying to find articles about the shampoo, the fetish of wanting to shampoo women's hair. I found an article from the independent in from 2007, where they talk about the results of the largest global study of sexual kinks ever undertaken. And it turns out that among sexual preferences for body parts feed and toes or the most popular at 47%.

Children's feed and toes feed and toes feed and toes feed and toes feed and toes. They also found that when it came to objects associated with the body shoes, boots and other footwear scored 64%. And just to give you a sense of a compared to other things. Yeah. And this is based on the views of men and women.

Okay. 150 people with a pension for hearing aids. Two who had a fetish for pacemakers. 12% of them were turned on by underwear. 9% by coats.

7% by hair.

So it's kind of in the low middle.

I got it's present. It's there. It represents. But it's in no way near. Yeah.

5% muscles. 4% general. Only 5% muscles. You think that'd be number one.

“You would think that maybe it just two obvious.”

Yeah. You want the nose. Right. Two on the genitals. You're.

It's like no. I'm into nose. How about the nose. Yeah. The lowest scores.

And so sorry guys. What's a stethoscope? Swatches. Bracelets. Dipers and catheters.

Oh catheters. Oh catheters. Where did my.

Mine of notcha cheese fries come in.

It ranks. It's. I see notcha cheese fries and I'm just like. Ready. Girl.

Girl. Guys. Okay. Now then from this article, I stumbled onto an article about object sexuality, which is that thing where people fall in love with bridges and married them.

Oh, like the actual object they're into. Yeah. Because I was kind of trying to go like, well, if you're. If you don't have anything to tell me about. Washington ladies here, then maybe this area will.

And I just kept clicking on things that were bringing. I actually got to a hair washing porn site. What? I didn't click on it though because no, because that's forever. Yeah.

Did you.

“What about is the person who married a roller coaster in there?”

Yes, that will in my short list. Uh, this is a woman's day article from 2010. Where there it's a list of the 10 known romances between people and things. Oh my god. Uh, including the Berlin wall.

They fairground ride, which I think is what you're talking about. A body pillow. Totally understandable. I get that. Jason.

An Nintendo video game character. Oh. A Volkswagen Beetle. Yeah. The World Trade Center.

Wait. A seam locomotive. Understandable. And I book. Sure.

And the most romantic of all a metal processing system. So. Wow. Man, there's like a glitch in the Matrix. Is that your brain when those things happen?

Yeah. I mean. Or we say it's right. It's everybody gets some weird thing that happens to them when they're like five. And they go like, oh, that's my thing.

And then that's just how it is. Yeah. I guess you get emotionally attached to whatever. Yeah. You have some weird memory.

That's just like, oh, Christmas and point set is that turns me on. Okay. So here. Let's give it. Let's give.

We're not trying to kink shame anybody. No. Throw some things out there. You're actually kink unshaming and showing all the beautiful ways that there are a lot. There are a lot of ways that there are to love and fuck.

Right. Because one I, you know, focused on the foot like the fucking aspect. But then I brought it around to love with the metal processing system. No shame. Get yours.

The way you have to. Just don't bridge. Don't hurt anyone in the process. Or a bridge. Oh, yeah.

They're sensitive. They have to be there all the time for people. Yeah. They seem strong. Yeah.

But they're really not. Yeah. Deep down. Deep down in a windy day. All right.

So Luigi. Longie. I spent some time in mental institutions. And he was eventually deported from Switzerland in 1977 when he was 25. So he moved to Denmark, a city called Padborg.

Padborg. Let's do it. I think I just. No. Make the worst fucking IKEA joke in the world.

Please mark that and all ideas similar to it.

To show that I have control. Thanks.

“Okay, so the he says that this is when he began hiring women who would let him wash their hair.”

He never asked for sex.

He never harmed them in any way.

He just shampooed them compulsively. In fact, he was a virgin. Hmm. Shampooing hair. Yeah.

That's what he needed to get it done. So on May 30, 1981, when Luigi was 29 years old, he picked up a German hitchhiker named Heika Fryhite at the Danish German border. And he offered her to buy her ticket to Copenhagen if she would come and let him wash her hair in his apartment. And she was like, okay, I can tell.

It's almost like, if she instead of you, like offering that to me is creepier than he was like, can you come over speaking murder you? Yes. Because hair washing part is just like what? Yeah, that's all questions.

Yeah. There's nothing. You can't trust it. It doesn't sound normal. It doesn't sound that easy.

You know, it's can't be that easy. Right. Because normally the way hair washing works is you pay someone else to do it for you. Right. And like, you don't have to be alone with a strange man.

And I know this is it right. That's key. I know this is, you know, like obviously he had mental problems for an early age. But I wish someone had told him you can get a job washing women's hair and get paid for it. Did you really?

For a short time, yeah. What are there any tricks we need to know? Yeah. Every person who washes hair has a spot that they just immediately miss. Like, you just ignore this one.

And so mine was like the back right side of the neck. So you may have to make sure to do that. Don't spray people in the face. I was really bad at it. What about that?

Oh. Yeah. I was just, it's really intimate. It's really, really intimate. It's, and I was like 20, not even 20 years old.

So I was just like, suddenly like caressing people's heads. With basically kind of with your boobs on their face. Yeah. I mean, is the position? Yes.

It's odd. It's a really creepy sentiment. And as you, like, that's an interesting perspective because just as the receiver, you just, I would just close my eyes and like, I met the massage parlour.

“I think that's key is that closure eyes.”

It makes it less creepy. Yeah. Don't fucking stare at the person. No. That's not like time for, I can't be polite and closure fucking nice.

Have a personal moment. If you can't close your eyes because you're that, you know, the insanity inside you is such. You can't be alone in there in the dark. Look away. Baby.

Do a half away. Do a half. Half lid. Look away. Zone out.

Yeah. Please. If you can. She, those there, he washes her hair to the point where, and this, I wish, there was so much more information about those.

They both fell asleep. Yeah. So, he must have been good. He must have been good. She could have been on some drugs.

Sure. felt comfortable. He may have been very non-threatening. I like. She just was tired hitchhiking.

I could never have had a good hair wash.

Man. It can be so nice. Oh, my God. Well, so he wakes up. And he wants to wash her hair again.

Okay. But he knows now this is the dividing line between when he usually gets women to wash. Let him wash their hair. He does it. And then they leave.

So now he wants to do it again. He knows she's going to say no. So he decides to tie her up. So he binds her hands and her feet. And then she wakes.

So she's waking up as he takes her back over to the chair at the sink to wash her hair again. Okay. And once she gets in the chair, he gags her. And then binds her to the chair. So she won't move around.

And then he proceeds to wash her hair for hours and hours. Until he runs out of shampoo. Are you fucking kidding me? Uh-huh. And this is the part where, and I was, it was not humor laugh.

It was like nervous. Yeah. What the fuck am I reading on this part? Holy shit. Yeah.

Just I've never heard anything like that.

Um, so then when he runs out of shampoo, he looks around as apartment for other things he can use. So then he starts shampooing her hair with honey. Then he shampoos her hair with solid dressing and cottage cheese. So we're just horrifying. I am speechless.

And insane. And then it also reminded me in the 70s.

“I can't remember if we've talked about this or not.”

My mom used to put a conditioning pack on her hair on the weekends. That was just mayonnaise. That's what I used to do. How do you stand? I don't know.

Gross. And she would have it. She should have like, I don't know. Perfectly manicured fingernails with mayonnaise underneath. I was like, I didn't even get that thing.

And I'd be like, I can't be anywhere near you. So he was like, fuck him. This fool's fucking mayonnaise in your hair. You wrap plastic wrap around your head. Yes.

And you just let it fucking marinate. Yeah. Your hair is beautiful and shiny and stinks. The stink is so gross.

It's fucking, er, er, er, er.

Yeah, rotten eggs. It's rotten eggs that you're putting on your head.

“What I think's interesting about the fact that he did that and kept doing it.”

Other stuff is that it's not about washing her hair. And it's like that, it makes you understand something more about this fetish. Which is, it's like, it's manipulating the scalp and hair of a woman. Yeah. And the act of doing that rather than the washing.

Right. It's not about cleanliness. Not about cleanliness or the woman enjoying it. No. Because no one's going to enjoy cottage cheese fucking rubbed in their head.

Must meet to me or your mom. Right. And a small handful of other people. Yeah. No.

It's about his enjoyment of touching her hair with liquid in it. Yeah. And permanent saluting scalp and touching hair. Okay. So, so all the while while she's being shampooed of course, she's struggling against her strengths.

But now he's worked himself up into a frenzy because he can shampoo her. Like, there's no, he's out of control. He can do whatever he wants.

“So then he decides he wants to see what she looks like naked.”

And so she rips her clothes off. And so this is when like begins to stomp her feet on the ground. She's trying to get like a neighbor to notice or know that something's wrong. And when she starts to do that, he's put, and it doesn't say when this happened. He's put a news around her neck.

So he's tightening it, trying to make her stop stomping her feet. And she ends up dying of his fixation. Oh, my God. Later tells the police that it was an accident.

He says I never intended to kill her, but suddenly she went limp and I realized she was dead.

But in a couple articles, too, the way they phrased it was almost like she strangled herself by fighting against the ligatures. And it's like, it's, if you're looking at your hair weren't there. Exactly. And also if he, if there's anything new like in the story, sorry, that there's one, there's one. If there's a way to strangle yourself, because there's something around your neck, then he killed her.

Right. It's strangle her. If you were beginning to strangle yourself, because you were moving, you'd stop moving. Yeah. Yeah.

This is not on her. Yeah. Okay. So, of course, he panics and what does he do, which then also combines some other interest that we have. He stuffs her body into a wall space, puts lime on it, and gets the fuck out of God.

Nine months later, there were workmen who are re-insulating the roof of the building. Nine months? Nine months?

Does lime work that well?

Uh, well, no, I didn't say what, like, they found her body, so it's not like a completely disintegrated. Okay. But maybe it's kind of a smell. I mean, it's like no one was like, I have no idea. Yeah.

But yeah, it took nine months, and then they thought, and look down, and there's a body in a wall, which is horrifying. Um, but also one of the stories that we're asking people to send us. Yeah. Things and walls. Um, so anyway, Luigi Longi pled not guilty, but on March 11th, 1983, he was found to be criminally insane,

and confined to a mental institution for an indefinite amount of time. I was thinking this was like the 40s. No. Uh, 83. So, because the true crime, crime cards were brand 1992, on the card it says where he remains until this day.

Uh, we don't know if that's true, but if he is still like today, he'd be 66. Yeah. And that's the short and singular story of Luigi Longi. Wow. Yeah.

Let's go find him. Yeah. Oh, that's creepy. That's so creepy. Yeah.

Guys, send us your tell us your fetishes. No. No. These demons like no. No.

No. No. No. No. Send us to your fetish.

We have all these new listeners. People have no interest in true crime whatsoever. They're fetishes. They're feeding their fetish. Yeah.

That was a quick episode. Yeah. Okay. We're back, Karen. Any updates?

No updates for the story. All right. Well, then let's get into good things of the week. Well, the lean, instant oil change presents wisdom from the road. Some are means wide open spaces in a whole lot of extra miles.

Last place you want your engine to give out is halfway to nowhere. Out here, vote oil or a week battery is just an ambush. Wait and a half.

“That's why every oil change at balveline, instant oil change includes an 18-point”

maintenance check. These text are trained to help spot issues early and give you a run easy. I'm Jake Brennan and on my podcast Disgrace Land, I tell the stories behind music's biggest

Like the story behind Sonic Youth that starts with downtown New York cool and ends with album art inspired by a true crime.

“Sonic Youth was not fronted by a groupy hustling alpha like David Lee Ross.”

No, Sonic Youth's thirst and more was an artist in love with a fellow artist who just happened to play bass and the same band with him and his other artist friends. Her name was Kim Gordon. And thirst and in Kim were every bit as cool as the couple on the cover of Goot. The same couple involved in one of the UK's darkest true crimes.

Disgrace Land is part of the exactly right network. Listen to new episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes Thursday and rewinds on Sunday on the I-Hart Radio Out Apple Podcasts wherever you get your podcasts. It's Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea this season. We've got some awesome guests ready to do a lot of advice.

Guess like Tiffany Haddish kind of slide into people's DMs. I like Bumble. Also girl farmers only dot com. Like at states sales, funerals, auctions. Are usually good. There's a lot of good man.

Girl's Surrey stores near gyms. Darcy Cardin. Remember being like, I know this is good advice, but like I really don't want to do that. So you didn't take her. I didn't take her advice.

Are you still friends with that woman? No.

She actually was kind of toxic.

Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I spent my whole life looking up. I was a geek kid. I had a tall scope at age 12. And so.

So you didn't have sex for a long time? No. Cherry O'Terry. Were you a soap opera person? Young and restless.

Okay.

“Well, first of all, you should know it's the young and the restless.”

I can't even believe your misprasing it. It's a preview. Because we've been so worried. T.S. Madison. Are you into poly?

No. No. I don't think so. No. I could have told you.

No. I'm not. Girl, you're just a poly. Just based on what she's wearing and the way her hair style. She's not in a poly.

You're a trolley. On a ferris. Dave Franco. Madeleine Klein. Hannah Gatsby.

Adam Scott. Juan Desykes. And more. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's your thing that makes you happy? The same. Your positive. Yeah. My thing is another gift from a person.

The VIP line. The peeling. It's called. It's a book called The Man from the Train by. The Man who's normally a baseball writer named Bill James.

But he also wrote the book popular crime. It's a lot of us. Yeah. Okay. Oh, I have to read it.

So he's it's very cool because he's approaching. It's basically there's this. You have to read it. So I don't want to like overly spoiled. But he's linking.

The Voluscax murders. And a bunch of other really grizzly murders. It's one guy that used to ride the train.

And it's just incredible.

And he uses that kind of like here's all the things this guy did. He did it every single time. And they went through and pulled all the stories from back then of was somebody killed by an accident, a small town near a railroad time. And it's incredible.

They did so much research. Oh, I can't wait to read it. It's so good. And also the way he writes. Like sometimes I feel like when I read true crime books.

It's very like it gets very prosy and like kind of like the very overly descriptive. This guy, it's like he's just talking to or he's like, well, we'll talk about that later. Like here's the research. Yes. And he's like, and that you might that remind you of this.

But it comes back later. So we'll talk about that. Like it's really cool narrative. And then it's just really clear. And it's one of those really satisfying.

Like if you know about this crime and this crime and this crime, he's like, it's all one guy. Yeah, okay, I'm I really want to read it. Yeah, I'm halfway down. So you'll have it in, you know, two weeks.

Okay. My seven months. Great. Or I think, yeah, or all by it. Uh, oh, I just bought a stranger beside me.

Um, well, can I just say cats?

“I think that's making me happy as cats and my cats and watching them?”

Sure. That's what's making me happy right now. It's just nice to look and sit and chill with them. And we're gone so much touring that like when I get to come home and see them. It just makes me really happy.

Great. Yeah. Okay. We're back. So this episode as we all know was originally entitled Courage Shoulders.

But if we were naming it today, maybe we would call it. Well, it should be not with my Steven. Definitely. Not my backyard. Not with my Steven.

Then all of the SARS guards. Yes. That one is pretty great. Always.

And then we're going to have a couple of pictures of the classic children's hits.

And of course, Bridges are sensitive. All right. Well, thanks for listening everyone.

“And here in 2026, let's go back to 2018 to say goodbye.”

Well, thanks for listening, you guys. Thanks, guys. For listening. Um, all right. Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered. Bye. I'll miss my cookie. I'm Jake Brennan.

“And on my podcast, disgraced land, I tell the stories behind music's biggest names.”

Like how the story of the food fighters isn't just about music.

It's about grief, shock, and the moment everything changed. Imagine that. You're in the biggest band on the planet as Dave Grohl was in 1994 in Nirvana. In the phone rings. And you learn that you're singer, your friend.

The reluctant voice of a generation, Kurt Colby, is dead. Listen to disgraced land.

On the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts.

The trail weekly is back with brand new stories from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town. It was from a unknown number. Who else is getting these messages?

“Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities?”

Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed to work she said. Listen to betrayal weekly on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. This season, we've got some awesome guests ready to throw out advice.

Guests like Tiffany Haddish. Kind of slide into people's DMs. I like Bumble. Awesome, girl farmers only dot com. That's states, sales, funerals, options.

Are usually good, there's a lot of good men there, grocery stores near gyms. Darcy Cardin. Sherry O'Terry. Anna Ferris. Dave Franco.

Madeline Klein. Adam Scott. T.S. Madison and more. Listen to Dear Chelsea on the I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.